Nascar chase setup

[Rene Lamontagne]

Have bee following Nascar For many years, Since about 1975 When we first
got glimpses of it on Canadian TV.

BUT, I have never seen such a Crock of Manure as this new chase format,
This is enough to have me say to hell with Nascar, this may turn me
off permanantly.
Stricktly my opinion.

Regards, Rene

[Nancy2]

Thanks for your comment, Rene. I hope you stick around for the beginning of the next season,
when we will all see what kind of a mess Brian France will dictate for the next Chase.

Personally, I have never liked the Chase format no matter how it is set up. It is too bad they
can't just go back to racing without trying to mimic the ball game playoffs.

"Game"is the operative word: Nascar is not a game, it is one of only three true sports, according to
Ernest Hemingway, who famously declaimed that "the only true sports are car racing, mountain climbing, and
bull fighting; everything else is just a game." ;-))

N.

[Rene Lamontagne]

Spelling checker seems to be Kaput!
Anyway, the old point system worked quite well, May the man with most
point wins...
Yeah, I'll probably be here in February. Not much else worth watching on
TV except Curling Which I enjoy as we have a great ladies team here in
Winnipeg, Go, Jennifer Jones and team. :-)))

Regards, Rene

[Mike Marlow]

Well Rene - I too have been following it for many years, and I too think
this format is a crock. Yesterday's outcome completely blew me away. Too
much of a crapshoot the way it is now. I thought there was no way Gordon
should have gotten the boot, and though I am no fan of Kesalowski at all, I
thought there was no way he should have gotten the boot - while Newman made
it to the final race. WTF? Hell - Harvick only made it in by a point,
right? Totally screwed up format.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Mike Marlow]

Rene Lamontagne wrote:

>
> Spelling checker seems to be Kaput!
> Anyway, the old point system worked quite well, May the man with most
> point wins...
> Yeah, I'll probably be here in February. Not much else worth watching
> on TV except Curling Which I enjoy as we have a great ladies team
> here in Winnipeg, Go, Jennifer Jones and team. :-)))
>

Curling??? Geezus Rene - I bet you like watching paint dry too, don't ya?

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[John McCoy]

"Mike Marlow" <mmarlo...@windstream.net> wrote in
news:m3rbls$s3h$1...@dont-email.me:

> Hell -
> Harvick only made it in by a point, right? Totally screwed up format.

Well, technically, no. Harvick won the race, so he would
advance even if he had no points.

John

[weirdwi...@gmail.com]

On Monday, November 10, 2014 4:45:44 PM UTC-5, Mike Marlow wrote:

>Harvick only made it in by a point, right?

> -Mike-

Happy made it in by winning the race. Win your in. By winning the race also gave him the points lead by 1 point, which is why he is the points leader and listed first in the final four.

[Lesmond]

I like curling. Bur remember...he's watching the ladies.

--
If there's a nuclear winter, at least it'll snow.

[Rene Lamontagne]

YIKES! NO, I hate paint and painting. :-((
But back in the late 40s and into the 50s I curled on various amateur
teams and enjoyed the friendly sportsmanship and the skill required to
do it , Consequently I still enjoy watching it on tv.

Regards, Rene

[thekma...@gmail.com]

Yeah, something a Hendrick fan might not be used to: a driver actually earning their win and points standing as opposed to getting a little help from their owner's friends in the officials booth. ;)

[darkst...@gmail.com]

All it will take is one well-timed wreck this week, and this Chase format is gone.

Either a Vickers-Bliss to win the championship (even for another driver on their team) or Keselowski trashing Harvick for that little shit pulling the stunt.

Mike

[Nancy2]

Thekma, you have got to get over this paranoia about HMS. It is obvious, now more than ever, that there isn't one.
OTOH, it is kinda interesting to see what you will come up with next. ;-)

N.

[Nancy2]

One can only hope something cancels any future Chase, but I don't see it happening, sadly.
I wish Ricky Larson would stink up Homestead with a win...after all, Newman punted him in order
to get his spot in the final four.

N.

[weirdwi...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, November 11, 2014 1:59:20 PM UTC-5, Nancy2 wrote:

>I wish Ricky Larson would stink up Homestead with a win...after all, Newman punted him in order

>

> N.

Yea, that would stink up the place all right since there isn't a "Ricky" Larson!!! Please start watching another sport cause you sure don't have a grasp of this one.

[thekma...@gmail.com]

Got that right! And N2 wouldn't even notice a Hendrick bias if it were right in front of her. lol

[Mike Marlow]

Can't happen Mike. Only the four finalists can become the Champion. If
they all wrecked out it would go to the one with the most points.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Nancy2]

Oh, snap, my bad. It was a senior moment...give me a break! There is no need to make personal
insults, when you all know who I meant, and it was a good-natured discussion. My God, it was one
tiny drop of blood in the water and you come on like a feeding frenzy!

And where is the HENDRICK bias when not one HMS driver is in the final four??? Oh, I guess it won't
show up now until next season....

N

[TS02,05,11champ]

Must be nice to be perfect and never make a mistake.

[John McCoy]

"Mike Marlow" <mmarlo...@windstream.net> wrote in

news:m3tqp8$k75$1...@dont-email.me:

Yeah, basically the championship goes to whichever of Harvick,
Logano, Hamlin or Newman has the best finish in the race. Even
if that "best finish" is 30-something.

So those four are racing each other for the championship, and
everyone else is racing to win the race.

John

[Nancy2]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nascar/2014/11/10/nascar-may-crown-a-winless-driver-as-
champion-ryan-newman/18816477/


A very thoughtful article on France's original expectations of the Chase format (and absolute statements
which now have proven not to be true), and other thoughts on this season's races, and possible ramifications
of various scenarios.

N.

[thekma...@gmail.com]

"Crowning a winless driver" - like that's something new!

Been doing just that - awarding consistency since the pavement first cooled at Daytona.

Just throw the f'king "Chase" in the GARBAGE and acknowledge it was really all about boosting viewership(at track and at home).

[Nancy2]

Thekma, that is an exaggeration, isn't it? There has never been a winless driver crowned Champion in
Nascar's premiere series. Did you read the article?

N.

[thekma...@gmail.com]

Nancy2:

It was to emphasize a point: That a driver with 1-2 wins and mostly top-10 finishes would trump one with 5 wins, a few top-20 finishes, and a string of wrecks due to bad luck or carelessness.

[Nancy2]

Thank you for the explanation of your statement....I took it literally, since the topic has been
much discussed. ;-))

N.

[Mike Marlow]

God - it is anoyying to see your responses that do not give any indication
what in the hell you are responding to. Maybe you need to learn how to use
your internet device.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[thekma...@gmail.com]

Nancy2 was replying to ME. Quoting does not work from Google Groups in an iOS device.

[darkst...@gmail.com]

If all four get wrecked, it goes to the one who goes the furthest, yes.

I do not think, however, that NASCAR is going to take very kindly to having even one of the four deliberately wrecked, and I am basically stating that is effectively a mathematical certainty to occur this weekend.

Mike

[darkst...@gmail.com]

Which has categorically failed.

Basically, I see this format getting trashed. Be it by a deliberate wreck or Newman winning or whatever...

Mike

[TS02,05,11champ]

On 11/12/2014 11:51 AM, thekma...@gmail.com wrote:
> Nancy2 was replying to ME. Quoting does not work from Google Groups in an iOS device.

Nancy2 was replying to ME. Quoting does not work from Google Groups in
an iOS device.

-------------------------
Yes, it does if you use the desktop view. On top of that, there is a
free newsreader for an iPod.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/newstap-lite-usenet-newsreader/id297063247?mt=8

[Nancy2]

TS, that link says the newsreader is for the iPod and iPhone. I have neither. I use an iPad when I
am not on my laptop. There are two reviews, one says it works, and the other says it doesn't
work at all.

(FYI, when something got "improved" in Google, the ability to show quotes in the old style went away.
I didn't do it.)

I didn't bother to click on anything else, but will give it a try when I have time, just to see
what happens. If it screws up my iPad, I will come find you, because I am not a techie, and I
absolutely do not have an Apple brain. Thanks.

N.

[TS02,05,11champ]

If you look on the left side of the page you will see this. Not sure if
it will work on yours or not.

Compatibility: Requires iOS 4.3 or later. Compatible with iPhone, iPad,
and iPod touch. This app is optimized for iPhone 5.

[Pete Zahria]

In article Nancy2 <ellor...@gmail.com> wrote:

>......There has never been a winless
> driver crowned Champion in
>Nascar's premiere series...........
>
>N.

But one interesting side on champions, and worthyness,
is that the year Benny Parsons won the championship,
he only had one win...
It was also his ONLY lead lap finish...... Champion.

Pearson had 11 wins.
Petty 6
Cale 4

Not thinking too much of that title, personally.
(nothing against Benny, he didn't come up with the system..)



--
Dan

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool,
than to speak out and remove all doubt."

[Mike Marlow]

darkst...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> If all four get wrecked, it goes to the one who goes the furthest,
> yes.
>
> I do not think, however, that NASCAR is going to take very kindly to
> having even one of the four deliberately wrecked, and I am basically
> stating that is effectively a mathematical certainty to occur this
> weekend.
>

I don't agree Mike. I think as long as one wins, NASCAR is happy - no
matter who that one is. I don't even think they really care if one is
delibrately wrecked or not. What are they going to do - dock a few points
and assess a penalty to the other car? Big deal. I just don't think they
care a hoot about any one of the top four cars getting wrecked. They will
end up with a Champion not matter what.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Mike Marlow]

This has been explained many times before - it's just not worth the effort
to explain it any further. I just throw her in the bucket and only see her
in other people's responces.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Mike Marlow]

If after all of the conversation that has gone on about this Nancy, you
can't figure out either how to fix your issues or to research it (so that
you can post like everyone else with a tablet can post...) then you're just
in the bit bucket. Really - you've taken this too far. Learn to use the
internet and usenet, or just don't use it.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Nancy2]

Mike, I love your attitude. Really. I am 73 years old so obviously, I like to waste my valuable time bugging you.

If you want me to include quotes, I can do that but without editing capability, so the ENTIRE post and all the
other responses and extraneous blank lines, etc., are included. Would you prefer that?

I read many posts on my iPad that do not include any quotes, but in teeny print above the body of the post,
appears, "include quote"....I can choose whether or not to click on that to see the entire thread. I rarely do
that, because it is not necessary in order for m to enjoy the general content of the group threads.

It has been explained TO YOU many times to just put me in your kill file.

N.

(P.S. I have not clicked on that link because first I have to see if it is in the App Store. We iDevice users have been
warned not to download third party apps.)

[TS02,05,11champ]

It's in the app store.

[Nancy2]

Thanks, TS, I found it...also updated my settings. The silly thing costs $2.99 and there is only one comment saying
it crashes every time the guy tries to update his groups. I couldn't even get a recognizable list of groups.
I don't mind the cost, but it seems it doesn't work.

I will try it when my son or G'daughter is around to help. If I am lucky, maybe I will die before I have to screw
around with Apple any further. 😝

N.

[Nancy2]

This is so much Chinese to me (no offense intended) I cannot finish in the Settings because i
don't know how to fill in the Configure blanks. Tough, just live with it for now.

N.

[John McCoy]

petez...@nospam.com (Pete Zahria) wrote in news:m40l75$dk9$1
@speranza.aioe.org:

> But one interesting side on champions, and worthyness,
> is that the year Benny Parsons won the championship,
> he only had one win...
> It was also his ONLY lead lap finish...... Champion.
>
> Pearson had 11 wins.
> Petty 6
> Cale 4
>
> Not thinking too much of that title, personally.
> (nothing against Benny, he didn't come up with the system..)

Right - and it was a system specifically designed to
force the drivers to attempt all the races. Pearson
only ran 18 of the 28 races, so he had no shot at being
champion.

One can only imagine, tho, what the outcry here would
be if a guy ran 18 races, with 4 DNFs, a third, two
seconds, and 11 wins...and wasn't champion.

John

[Mike Marlow]

Ok - I understand the frustration you are expressing. Just seems so very
weird that you have to suffer through this problem that seems to be so well
addressed for others. I'm not an i-thing user so I admitedly do not
understand the issues that you people face. I think I'm thankful for that.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Mike Marlow]

Nancy2 wrote:

> Mike, I love your attitude. Really. I am 73 years old so obviously,
> I like to waste my valuable time bugging you.

Ahhhh... a woman after my own heart! BTW - from the way you post here I do
not believe you are 73YO for a minute...



--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[John McCoy]

Nancy2 <ellor...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:16f8f9dc-a540-491a...@googlegroups.com:

>
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nascar/2014/11/10/
> nascar-may-crown-a-winless-driver-as-champion-ryan-newman

> /18816477/
>
>
> A very thoughtful article on France's original expectations of the
> Chase format (and absolute statements which now have proven not to be
> true), and other thoughts on this season's races, and possible
> ramifications of various scenarios.

This is the damning comment, isn't it:

"This might seem a remote scenario if it didn't emerge as
an evident trend when modeling this system in past years.

In two of the past six seasons (Dale Earnhardt Jr. last year;
Harvick in 2008), the champion would have been winless under
the 2014 format."

So either NASCAR didn't even try to test their new system
against prior results; or they did and didn't understand
what they got; or they did and just plain ignored the result
because it didn't match what they wanted.

And of course, if they really want to reward winning they
could simply give the championship to the guy with the most
wins. Very easy for the fans to understand that one.

John

[Nancy2]

- show quoted text -

Ok - I understand the frustration you are expressing. Just seems so very
weird that you have to suffer through this problem that seems to be so well
addressed for others. I'm not an i-thing user so I admitedly do not
understand the issues that you people face. I think I'm thankful for that.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

**************************************

Okay, see above? 😊. The whole quote...albeit, it is a short one. Anyway, I will try it this way for a while until
I get a really long one or a complaint.

My main problem, besides not having an Apple brain, is that I don't know anyone close to me who uses Usenet.

OTOH, I don't do Tweets, Facebook, or any of those other things.

N.

[Pete Zahria]

Do any of you really go to/watch a race, and think about
who is going to be the champion?
I mean really.. how does it affect the way you watch a race?
Does it really matter who or how one becomes a "champion"?

Why would you want to walk away from going to race, or watching one
because you don't like the format of determining a champion?
If you don't think a guy like Tony Stewart, Jeff Gordon
Kyle Busch, Clint Bowyer etc. doesn't drive his ass off each week, you're
freakin dreamin. That is the show.

I've been to hundreds of races, and never felt I was being
robbed because of who or how the champion was determined.
And I've seen most formats..

As John has mentioned a zillion times.
Presently, the races are the way they are because of the cars/tracks,
not because of the chase...

Seeing a guy like Jeff Gordon, make the comeback of his carreer
this season, and show more emotion than ever, was great.
Two drivers that years ago I thought would be midpackers,
won more races than anyone else this year.
One now a former champion, the other a possible.
Egg on my face.. I admit it.
I'll remember that way longer than who the champion was.
That's what I take from a season.

[Pete Zahria]

In article Nancy2 <ellor...@gmail.com> wrote:

>OTOH, I don't do Tweets, Facebook, or any of those other things.

@Nancy #welcome to the old farts club

[TS02,05,11champ]

NewsTap is $2.99, but there is also a free version called NewsTap Lite.

Anyway, you know you have to have a news server, right?

A good free one here http://www.aioe.org

nntp.aioe.org is what you would enter under the NewsTap server settings.

[Mike Marlow]

Nancy2 wrote:

> Okay, see above? ??. The whole quote...albeit, it is a short one.

> Anyway, I will try it this way for a while > until I get a really long one
> or a complaint.

Really long ones do pose problems of their own. Generally people will snip
the portions of long ones that they are not responding to, and only leave
the portion that is relevant to their response. Then again, there is the
occasional very long included text, to which the poster simply replies "I
agree" at the bottom. That generally gets a few comments from the
community.

> My main problem, besides not having an Apple brain, is that I don't know
> anyone close to me who uses > Usenet.

That's because usenet is a dying beast and only us dinosaurs still use it.
Sad, but true.

> OTOH, I don't do Tweets, Facebook, or any of those other things.

Good for you! I have to admit that I do have a Facebook page but that's
only because the group of musicians that I hang out with use Facebook to
post pictures of open mic's and stuff like that, and they use it to announce
time/date/location of upcoming open mic's. Other than that - I don't really
use Facebook either. Don't do Twitter at all, either.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Nancy2]

Thanks, TS, I did know that I had to have a news reader, but kinda didn't put it in the equation.
I think if I have more patience, which I seem to have abandoned since I retired, I can probably get it configured
properly. But if I can quote like I did just now for Mike, I don't think I will pursue it further. (Don't ask why
I didn't quote for this response because I don't have an answer for that one.) ;-))

N.

[John McCoy]

petez...@nospam.com (Pete Zahria) wrote in

news:m4186n$oi9$1...@speranza.aioe.org:

> Do any of you really go to/watch a race, and think about
> who is going to be the champion?
> I mean really.. how does it affect the way you watch a race?
> Does it really matter who or how one becomes a "champion"?

Y'know, now that you mention it, I used to go down to
Hialeah Speedway pretty routinely from about 1985 to
2000. They had some sort of points championship there,
with a season ending banquet (which was in Feb, I think)
and all that.

I never learned how the points worked there. Never had
any idea who was the champion(*), or who was leading the
points, or any of that stuff. It just wasn't important
to the racing.

(* except the one year that Gary McGoron was late model
champion, because he gave out T-shirts, of which I still
have mine).

John

[Pete Zahria]

In article Knews...@gmail.com wrote:

>I want to see the BEST driver, one who KNOWS how to drive well,
>be the champion, NOT just someone who has won ONE race, and has
>generally NOT driven well for the whole season.

Why? This is the part that baffles me.
You want to see the best driver.... stop there.
If you go to the races, you DO see the best driver.
And he may indeed win.
How does he not winning the championship,
detract from your day at the track???
Or watching the race on tv?
It boggles my pea brain...
Some of the most exciting, dramatic races/finishes
have been provided by non champions.
Isn't "that" what we go to the races for?

This "thing" with the championship displeasure
just alludes me.
It's an award handed out at the banquet. That's it.

>Which is why I have NOT watched the last 3 races, and won't be
>watching the rest of this season.

Which is EXACTLY the course you shoud take
if it bothers you that much.
I applaud for you for doing that.

[John McCoy]

The Other Guy <Knews...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:ufta6ah691grmlp3s...@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 01:10:22 GMT, petez...@nospam.com (Pete Zahria)
> wrote:
>
>>In article Knews...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>I want to see the BEST driver, one who KNOWS how to drive well,
>>>be the champion, NOT just someone who has won ONE race, and has
>>>generally NOT driven well for the whole season.
>>
>>Why? This is the part that baffles me.
>>You want to see the best driver.... stop there.
>

> The BEST driver, NOT the LUCKIEST one today!

How do you figure best? Suspose Ricky Racer starts last
(because he missed the drivers meeting or something) and
passes the whole field in 10 laps to take the lead, and
starts lapping cars in 20 laps, and gets wrecked out by a
backmarker on lap 21. Meanwhile Sly Fox kind of hangs
around 10th for 450 laps, then works his way to the lead
and wins the race.

Which one is best?

John

[Bill McGarrity]

To: John McCoy
-=> On 11-14-14 12:33, John McCoy wrote to rec.autos.sport.nascar <=-

> On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 01:10:22 GMT, petez...@nospam.com (Pete Zahria)
> wrote:
>
>>In article Knews...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>I want to see the BEST driver, one who KNOWS how to drive well,
>>>be the champion, NOT just someone who has won ONE race, and has
>>>generally NOT driven well for the whole season.
>>
>>Why? This is the part that baffles me.
>>You want to see the best driver.... stop there.
>
> The BEST driver, NOT the LUCKIEST one today!

JM> How do you figure best? Suspose Ricky Racer starts last
JM> (because he missed the drivers meeting or something) and
JM> passes the whole field in 10 laps to take the lead, and
JM> starts lapping cars in 20 laps, and gets wrecked out by a
JM> backmarker on lap 21. Meanwhile Sly Fox kind of hangs
JM> around 10th for 450 laps, then works his way to the lead
JM> and wins the race.

JM> Which one is best?

Ofcourse it was Sly Fox. He got to sip the champagne, kiss the pretty girl and
walk away with the trophy. Just because you have a fast car to start doesn't
necessarily make you the best driver. Quick lesson... tortoise and the hare..

--


Bill

Telnet: bbs.tequilamockingbirdonline.net
Web: bbs.tequilamockingbirdonline.net
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Radio: radio.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:8010/live


... Look TWICE... Save a LIFE!!! Motorcycles are Everywhere!!
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.50
--- Synchronet 3.16a-Win32 NewsLink 1.102
* TequilaMockingbird Online - Toms River, NJ - telnet://tequilamockingbirdonline.net

[Mike Marlow]

Bill McGarrity wrote:
> To: John McCoy
> -=> On 11-14-14 12:33, John McCoy wrote to rec.autos.sport.nascar <=-
>
>
>> On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 01:10:22 GMT, petez...@nospam.com (Pete Zahria)
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In article Knews...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> I want to see the BEST driver, one who KNOWS how to drive well,
>>>> be the champion, NOT just someone who has won ONE race, and has
>>>> generally NOT driven well for the whole season.
>>>
>>> Why? This is the part that baffles me.
>>> You want to see the best driver.... stop there.
>>
>> The BEST driver, NOT the LUCKIEST one today!
>

>> How do you figure best? Suspose Ricky Racer starts last

>> (because he missed the drivers meeting or something) and

>> passes the whole field in 10 laps to take the lead, and

>> starts lapping cars in 20 laps, and gets wrecked out by a

>> backmarker on lap 21. Meanwhile Sly Fox kind of hangs

>> around 10th for 450 laps, then works his way to the lead

>> and wins the race.

>
>> Which one is best?
>
> Ofcourse it was Sly Fox. He got to sip the champagne, kiss the pretty
> girl and walk away with the trophy. Just because you have a fast car
> to start doesn't necessarily make you the best driver. Quick
> lesson... tortoise and the hare..

But - this discussion is about an extreem and very unlikely event. This is
a typical "what if" scenario that we would normally call a red herring. So
in keeping with this post - what if all of the top 10 mysteriously blew up
their engines in the fianl 20 laps. Then what?

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[John McCoy]

"Mike Marlow" <mmarlo...@windstream.net> wrote in
news:m45h3d$q6h$1...@dont-email.me:

> Bill McGarrity wrote:
>> To: John McCoy
>> -=> On 11-14-14 12:33, John McCoy wrote to rec.autos.sport.nascar <=-
>>
>>
>>> On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 01:10:22 GMT, petez...@nospam.com (Pete
>>> Zahria) wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article Knews...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I want to see the BEST driver, one who KNOWS how to drive well,
>>>>> be the champion, NOT just someone who has won ONE race, and has
>>>>> generally NOT driven well for the whole season.
>>>>
>>>> Why? This is the part that baffles me.
>>>> You want to see the best driver.... stop there.
>>>
>>> The BEST driver, NOT the LUCKIEST one today!
>>
>>> How do you figure best? Suspose Ricky Racer starts last
>>> (because he missed the drivers meeting or something) and
>>> passes the whole field in 10 laps to take the lead, and
>>> starts lapping cars in 20 laps, and gets wrecked out by a
>>> backmarker on lap 21. Meanwhile Sly Fox kind of hangs
>>> around 10th for 450 laps, then works his way to the lead
>>> and wins the race.
>>
>>> Which one is best?
>>
>> Ofcourse it was Sly Fox. He got to sip the champagne, kiss the pretty
>> girl and walk away with the trophy. Just because you have a fast car
>> to start doesn't necessarily make you the best driver. Quick
>> lesson... tortoise and the hare..

But Ricky Racer passed the whole field in 10 laps! Obviously
he's the best driver, he was just unlucky.

> But - this discussion is about an extreem and very unlikely event.
> This is a typical "what if" scenario that we would normally call a red
> herring. So in keeping with this post - what if all of the top 10
> mysteriously blew up their engines in the fianl 20 laps. Then what?

I think I saw that happen, back in the 70s.

But really, that's the point. How can you seperate the "best"
from the "luckiest", when this is a sport where 42 other drivers,
8 pit crewmen, and a thousand mechanical things have to not go
wrong for the driver to succeed? (*)

John

(* not to mention the timing of NASCAR's debris cautions...)

[Pete Zahria]

In article <bill.mc...@tequilamockingbirdonline.net.remove-ln0-this>
wrote:
> To: John McCoy

On the best driver:

>Ofcourse it was Sly Fox. He got to sip the champagne, kiss the pretty girl and
>walk away with the trophy. Just because you have a fast car to start doesn't
>necessarily make you the best driver. Quick lesson... tortoise and the hare..

So then you feel that Benny Parsons, with ONE lead lap finish, (3%)
and the champeenship, was the better of he and David Pearson
with 11/18 wins.... and 14/18 lead lap finishes (78%)??

Seriously?

I'm sticking with my feelings since I have been following/racing.
I could care less about how, or who the champion is..
It is just a trophy handed out at the end of the season...
Based on whatever the criteria is that the sanctioning body decides.

Benny would have traded seasons with Pearson, any day of the week...




--
Dan

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool,
than to speak out and remove all doubt."

[Bill McGarrity]

To: John McCoy
-=> On 11-14-14 21:15, John McCoy wrote to rec.autos.sport.nascar <=-

JM> "Mike Marlow" <mmarlo...@windstream.net> wrote in
JM> news:m45h3d$q6h$1...@dont-email.me:

> Bill McGarrity wrote:
>> To: John McCoy
>> -=> On 11-14-14 12:33, John McCoy wrote to rec.autos.sport.nascar <=-
>>
>>
>>> On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 01:10:22 GMT, petez...@nospam.com (Pete
>>> Zahria) wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article Knews...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I want to see the BEST driver, one who KNOWS how to drive well,
>>>>> be the champion, NOT just someone who has won ONE race, and has
>>>>> generally NOT driven well for the whole season.
>>>>
>>>> Why? This is the part that baffles me.
>>>> You want to see the best driver.... stop there.
>>>
>>> The BEST driver, NOT the LUCKIEST one today!
>>
>>> How do you figure best? Suspose Ricky Racer starts last
>>> (because he missed the drivers meeting or something) and
>>> passes the whole field in 10 laps to take the lead, and
>>> starts lapping cars in 20 laps, and gets wrecked out by a
>>> backmarker on lap 21. Meanwhile Sly Fox kind of hangs
>>> around 10th for 450 laps, then works his way to the lead
>>> and wins the race.
>>
>>> Which one is best?
>>
>> Ofcourse it was Sly Fox. He got to sip the champagne, kiss the pretty
>> girl and walk away with the trophy. Just because you have a fast car
>> to start doesn't necessarily make you the best driver. Quick
>> lesson... tortoise and the hare..

JM> But Ricky Racer passed the whole field in 10 laps! Obviously
JM> he's the best driver, he was just unlucky.

No, just meant he had the fastest car.

[Bill McGarrity]

To: petezahria
-=> On 11-15-14 00:59, petezahria wrote to rec.autos.sport.nascar <=-

> To: John McCoy

pe> On the best driver:

>Ofcourse it was Sly Fox. He got to sip the champagne, kiss the pretty girl

nd
>walk away with the trophy. Just because you have a fast car to start doesn't
>necessarily make you the best driver. Quick lesson... tortoise and the

are..


pe> So then you feel that Benny Parsons, with ONE lead lap finish, (3%)
pe> and the champeenship, was the better of he and David Pearson
pe> with 11/18 wins.... and 14/18 lead lap finishes (78%)??

pe> Seriously?

pe> I'm sticking with my feelings since I have been following/racing.
pe> I could care less about how, or who the champion is..
pe> It is just a trophy handed out at the end of the season...
pe> Based on whatever the criteria is that the sanctioning body decides.

pe> Benny would have traded seasons with Pearson, any day of the week...

Mmmmmm.... the example was given for a race. No one said for the entire
season. The decision for this format was to make it more compatable with the
other sports in the country... a "playoff" system so to speak. Is it better,
still has yet to be decided one way or the other.

My explaination in a one race scenario still holds. The driver that went from
last to first in 20 laps and for some reason screwed up leading the race
doesn't make him the best driver. I grant you they're the fastest but still
doesn't make him the best that day. The winner takes that honor every time.

[Nancy2]

In article <bill.mc...@tequilamockingbirdonline.net.remove-ln0-this>
wrote:
> To: John McCoy

On the best driver:

>Ofcourse it was Sly Fox. He got to sip the champagne, kiss the pretty girl and
>walk away with the trophy.

Seriously?

I'm sticking with my feelings since I have been following/racing.
I could care less about how, or who the champion is..
It is just a trophy handed out at the end of the season...

--
Dan
+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+

You mean you could NOT care less.... 😀

N.

[John McCoy]

Nancy2 <ellor...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:ab2f051d-7a4f-4b76...@googlegroups.com:

>> I'm sticking with my feelings since I have been following/racing.
>> I could care less about how, or who the champion is..
>> It is just a trophy handed out at the end of the season...

> You mean you could NOT care less....

Significant punctuation in Dan's comment, but I'll bet
no-one notices it.

Anyway, maybe Dan meant what he said. After all, he cares
enough about the champion to participate in this thread,
so potentially he could care even less.

John

[John McCoy]

"Bill McGarrity"
<bill.mc...@tequilamockingbirdonline.net.remove-zo4-this> wrote in
news:5466FF6B.1722...@tequilamockingbirdonline.net:

> Mmmmmm.... the example was given for a race.

Well, the example was given to provoke discussion on what "best"
really means. It had to be reasonably short...

> My explaination in a one race scenario still holds. The driver that
> went from last to first in 20 laps and for some reason screwed up
> leading the race doesn't make him the best driver. I grant you
> they're the fastest but still doesn't make him the best that day. The
> winner takes that honor every time.

That's a reasonable definition of "best". Clearly it accepts
the idea some days the "best" driver is the luckiest one, not
necessarily the most skillful (and some days the "best" driver
is the most skillful, it works both ways).

So, by extension, the driver who wins the championship under
whatever the rules of the championship are (*) is the best
driver. Even if, in this year, it's Newman with no race wins.
Something feels wrong about that...which suggests it's the
rules of the championship that have a problem.

John

(* something feels wrong with the grammar in that sentence,
too. Where's Nancy?)

[Nancy2]

^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
John, you are thinking the verbs (singular or plural) are wrong, (is or are),
but they are correct. Driver is a singular noun, and "is" is correct. Rules
is plural, and "are" is correct.

Yer welkum.

N.

[TS02,05,11champ]

On 11/15/2014 8:28 AM, Nancy2 wrote:
> You mean you could NOT care less.... 😀

Could care less seems to be the norm these days. It's used on TV shows a
LOT.

[Nancy2]

*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*

Yes, TS, but that is not the meaning most of those speakers mean. They mean that "it" could
not matter any less...IOW, it is at the bottom of whatever the person cares about. Saying it
wrongly is just laziness and incomprehension.

N.

[Pete Zahria]

In article Nancy2 <ellor...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Saying it
>wrongly is just laziness and incomprehension.
>
>N.

I love you too...

I'm just hoping that by the hundreds of times we hear it, AND,
the gazzilion posts I have made here,
most understood what I meant.


I ain't got no degree in good writing comprehensive.
Years ago I could not spell racecar. Now I are one.

[Nancy2]

In article Nancy2 <ellor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Saying it
>wrongly is just laziness and incomprehension.
>
>N.

I love you too...

I'm just hoping that by the hundreds of times we hear it, AND,
the gazzilion posts I have made here,
most understood what I meant.


I ain't got no degree in good writing comprehensive.
Years ago I could not spell racecar. Now I are one.

- show quoted text -

*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*

LOL. The English language survives because it changes constantly. Unfortunately, those changes
don't include changing the meanings of words, as far as I know. My comment about the characteristics
of those who, as you say, are using the expression wrongly more and more often, was not meant to
include YOU; only those for whom you were making excuses.

Happy Homestead race. Nothing much good has ever come lately of JG being on the pole, so I look
for him to get taken out in some horrible awful freak happening before the end of the race. But as my
German granny used to say, "Hope for the best, and expect the worst."


Kisses....

N.

[BodyDoubled]

I couldn't care less about this!!!

HTH

>G<

[TS02,05,11champ]

I know that. What I'm saying is, on a LOT TV shows you often hear the
actors saying "I could care less", when it should be, "I couldn't care
less". My point is, the writers for TV shows could care less. lol

[Nancy2]

- show quoted text -

I know that. What I'm saying is, on a LOT TV shows you often hear the
actors saying "I could care less", when it should be, "I couldn't care
less". My point is, the writers for TV shows could care less. lol

*^*^*^*^*^*^

TV shows? Writers can't even get the use of "I" and "We" correct. Pshaw. 😛

N.

[thekma...@gmail.com]

Nancy2:

This is the United States of America. Good grammar and spelling are OPTIONAL.

Back to the Chase Setup discussion...

[John McCoy]

Nancy2 <ellor...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:e6368ee7-f686-4d75...@googlegroups.com:

> LOL. The English language survives because it changes constantly.
> Unfortunately, those changes don't include changing the meanings of
> words, as far as I know.

Actually, they do. My favorite example is "sensibly".
Today we take that to mean "exhibiting common sense,
reasonable". Go back 150 years, and a Victorian would
take it to mean "capable of being sensed". We would
never say "the rain sensibly slackened", but a Victorian
would.

Now, my pet language peeve is folk who say "one of the
only" when they mean "one of the few". Only implies
singularity, so "one of the only" is the same as saying
"one of the one".

John

(who's other pet peeve is folk who get rabbit, rabbet,
and rarebit mixed up).

[thekma...@gmail.com]

John McCoy: One more - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3PtClFWTIyc

[Nancy2]

*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*

John, dear, we are not living in a time during which people in general are aware of what was in use 150
years ago. I am sure there are probably other examples somewhere. However, we still say we can
"sense" things, which would appear to be a sort of bridge between old and new.

Enough....I could go on forever about grammar pet peeves, but this isn't the best place for it.

NASCAR: has Jabber Jarrett (as Earl used to call him) been in the booth for the entire ESPN stint?
Or is he just now annoying me enough that I am noticing? I. Just. Wish. He. Would. Shut. The. Frick. Up.

N.