Saturn Coolant Supplement Pellets?

[Bob Shuman]

My 17-year old son has a 1996 SL1 that we drained, flushed, and re-filled
with ethylene glycol (Peak brand) coolant earlier today in preparation for
winter.

When checking out the owner's manual to determine the cooling system
capacity (7 quarts for those who are interested), I read the following on
page 281:

"When the engine coolant is changed for any reason, two engine coolant
supplement pellets (Saturn P/N 21007224) should be added to the coolant
reservoir."

I was surprised to read this since I have been flushing radiators every two
years on multiple vehicles for 25+ years and never ever had to put in any
type of supplemental additive. Can anyone shed some light on what is in the
pellet and why it is needed for this engine cooling system? I am guessing
possibly corrosion protection, but would appreciate more info form someone
in the know. Thanks in advance for the info.

Bob

[Joe Biadasz]

I may be mistaken but I believe these pelllets are a sludge preventor.. even
though you may dran an fill your coolant as recommended as the engine gets
older oils, dirt and other particles will get into the system.. These
pellets may prevent the sludge from cloging the small lines leading to the
radiator from the resovoir.

"Bob Shuman" <resh...@removethis.worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:uqWqb.33154$Ec1.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

[Buster]

They also are supposed to help lubricate the water pump.
Buster
On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 18:11:44 -0600, "Joe Biadasz" <jb...@charter.net>
wrote:

[Jonnie Santos]

I had read a long while back they prevented the waterpump from weeping - I'm
not a tech and do not know.

"Bob Shuman" <resh...@removethis.worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:uqWqb.33154$Ec1.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

[Steven Scharf]

"Bob Shuman" <resh...@removethis.worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

> I was surprised to read this since I have been flushing radiators every two

> years on multiple vehicles for 25+ years and never ever had to put in any
> type of supplemental additive. Can anyone shed some light on what is in the
> pellet and why it is needed for this engine cooling system? I am guessing
> possibly corrosion protection, but would appreciate more info form someone
> in the know. Thanks in advance for the info.

Here is the explanation from a Saturn mechanic from a
post from five years ago:(shpr...@exit109.com):

"The tablets you speak off are to lube the water pump and to
seal any small leak that my <sic> come from the water pump.
They have been used by GM for years and are an excellent
product. Owners of some Saturns may notice a slight sludge
in their coolant bottles right from day one, thats <sic> the
residue of the tablets and is normal."

I know that my mechanic has a stash of these seal-tabs for use
with Saturns and Cadillacs that need them.

[Steven Scharf]

"Bob Shuman" <resh...@removethis.worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

> I was surprised to read this since I have been flushing radiators every two

> years on multiple vehicles for 25+ years and never ever had to put in any
> type of supplemental additive. Can anyone shed some light on what is in the
> pellet and why it is needed for this engine cooling system? I am guessing
> possibly corrosion protection, but would appreciate more info form someone
> in the know. Thanks in advance for the info.

Here is the explanation from a Saturn mechanic from a

[Steven Scharf]

"Bob Shuman" <resh...@removethis.worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

> I was surprised to read this since I have been flushing radiators every two

> years on multiple vehicles for 25+ years and never ever had to put in any
> type of supplemental additive. Can anyone shed some light on what is in the
> pellet and why it is needed for this engine cooling system? I am guessing
> possibly corrosion protection, but would appreciate more info form someone
> in the know. Thanks in advance for the info.

Here is the explanation from a Saturn mechanic from a

[Steven Scharf]

"Bob Shuman" <resh...@removethis.worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

> I was surprised to read this since I have been flushing radiators every two

> years on multiple vehicles for 25+ years and never ever had to put in any
> type of supplemental additive. Can anyone shed some light on what is in the
> pellet and why it is needed for this engine cooling system? I am guessing
> possibly corrosion protection, but would appreciate more info form someone
> in the know. Thanks in advance for the info.

Here is the explanation from a Saturn mechanic from a

[Steven Scharf]

"Bob Shuman" <resh...@removethis.worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

> I was surprised to read this since I have been flushing radiators every two

> years on multiple vehicles for 25+ years and never ever had to put in any
> type of supplemental additive. Can anyone shed some light on what is in the
> pellet and why it is needed for this engine cooling system? I am guessing
> possibly corrosion protection, but would appreciate more info form someone
> in the know. Thanks in advance for the info.

Here is the explanation from a Saturn mechanic from a

[Steven Scharf]

"Bob Shuman" <resh...@removethis.worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

> I was surprised to read this since I have been flushing radiators every two

> years on multiple vehicles for 25+ years and never ever had to put in any
> type of supplemental additive. Can anyone shed some light on what is in the
> pellet and why it is needed for this engine cooling system? I am guessing
> possibly corrosion protection, but would appreciate more info form someone
> in the know. Thanks in advance for the info.

Here is the explanation from a Saturn mechanic from a

[Glomis]

Jeeze...could you post that again...I didn't get to read it the first SIX
TIMES!!!!

"Steven Scharf" <sch...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4f153f94.03110...@posting.google.com...

[TC]

I wouldn't use them. They are actually ginger root used to seal any
small leaks. They really sludge up the system. Just use palin old
water pump lubricant if that's what you feel the pellets are for.

[Bob Shuman]

Thanks for the replies.

Went to the dealer and picked up the pellets (part number given was
superceded by a new one and cost was $3.52 for two). Parts guy said they
were to seal the system and were definitely a GOOD IDEA for our 1996 SL1
single cam engine. I crushed them and then dropped the powder into the
reservoir.

I guess I kind of agree with TC below and do not understand why anything
extra should be needed to seal the system and believe that whatever gets
added will only hasten the demise of the radiator and cause blockage.

But, in the end I figured replacing a radiator is easier then replacing the
head gasket...so put them in as the owner's manual stated.

Bob

"TC" <tca...@mts.net> wrote in message
news:tcalof-644AF3....@news1.mts.net...

[Robert Hancock]

I believe that some of these things are actually made from walnut shells..
GM puts them in a lot of cars at the factory to prevent small leaks/weeping
around hose fittings and such. They are meant to seal only very small leaks,
they're not like the "stop leak" stuff you usually see at auto parts stores,
which apparently does tend to clog things up sometimes.

--
Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
To email, remove "nospam" from hanc...@nospamshaw.ca
Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/

"Bob Shuman" <resh...@removethis.worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

news:xIsrb.223816$0v4.16...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

[Napalm Heart]

When I was young, we used black pepper as a quick, cheap, and
available stop leak. Seemed to work as well as most.

Ken

"Robert Hancock" <hanc...@nospamshaw.ca> wrote in message
news:r_xrb.355131$6C4.316367@pd7tw1no...

[Jonnie Santos]

...and the turbomachinery company I work for used to use a walnut shell
concoction to clean turbine engines. I remember having to stock it by the
pallet load in the warehouse years ago...

"Robert Hancock" <hanc...@nospamshaw.ca> wrote in message
news:r_xrb.355131$6C4.316367@pd7tw1no...

[Jeff McDonald]

You shouldn't have used Peak... it has phosphates in it (check your label to
be sure). Saturn forbids phosphates, though I don't know why.

"Bob Shuman" <resh...@removethis.worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

news:uqWqb.33154$Ec1.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

[Bob Shuman]

Interesting that the Peak bottle clearly states that it is Ethylene Glycol
since this is the first ingredient listed. But, as you have pointed out, it
also lists Dipotassium Phosphate (7758-11-4), water (7732-18-5), and
"corrosion inhibitors, silicates, defoamer, and dyes."

I had assumed from the owner's manual that it would be either Ethylene
Glycol based OR Phosphate based and that they were referring to the newer
longer lasting formulations. Anyone familiar with this requirement? Again,
this is our first Saturn and I would like to follow the manual. What is the
harm in using Peak? Anyone else made this mistake and have a tale to tell?
What antifreeze should be used (other than what is available from the
dealer?)

Thanks for additional responses.

Bob

"Jeff McDonald" <elje...@xxadelphiaxx.net> wrote in message
news:voUrb.21300$KN4.1...@news1.news.adelphia.net...

[James1549]

First you need to be sure that the coolant you use is PHOSPHATE FREE. Then be
sure to add the conditioner tablets once a year. They do NOT cause sludge. I
change my coolant every 2 years and my coolant system is as clean as the day
the car was new.

The information I read claims the tablets condition the coolant that
non-phosphate coolant lacks. It clearly is NOT a stop leak product.

Also I read that eventually, all coolants will be phosphate free thanks to the
EPA.

James1549

[C. E. White]

Saturn uses Dexcool instead of conventional antifreeze. The base
ingredient is the same but the anti-corrosion chemistry is different. It
is a bad idea to mix the two.

Ed

[Ratbert]

C. E. White wrote:
> Saturn uses Dexcool instead of conventional antifreeze. The base
> ingredient is the same but the anti-corrosion chemistry is different. It
> is a bad idea to mix the two.
>

Actually, in the beginning, they used conventional antifreeze. They
switched to Dexcool in midyear 96, I think. The ones with Dexcool have
an orange dot on the coolant reservoir cap. The others have a green dot
on that cap. And it is indeed a bad idea to mix them.

[mc...@prodigy.net]

What is the "bad" of mixing the two types of antifreeze?

"Ratbert" <ratb...@eat.my.shorts.spammers.myway.com> wrote in message
news:zMWrb.164240$HS4.1329340@attbi_s01...

[Jeff McDonald]

Texaco makes a green-colored ethylene glycol antifreeze that's phosphate
free that I try to use. But recently I bought "turbo power" coolant that
looks appropriate.

"Bob Shuman" <resh...@removethis.worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

news:6yVrb.232329$0v4.16...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

[Bob Shuman]

Thanks to all for the follow ups.

Mixing won't be an issue since I will be flushing the Peak completely if
that is what is called for. Our Saturn had no dot so its not clear what
coolant was used or when this was done last by the previous owner.

I guess from your response that Dexcool would work? I'll have to do some
research to see what is listed as being in that brand/type. The owner's
manual specifically said Ethylene Glycol and I knew that Peak and Prestone
were both EG based coolants so I used Peak. I didn't think that Dexcool was
EG since it was a 5 year life coolant.

Bob

"Ratbert" <ratb...@eat.my.shorts.spammers.myway.com> wrote in message
news:zMWrb.164240$HS4.1329340@attbi_s01...

[Bob Shuman]

The manual only indicated they needed to be added in the event of a change
of the coolant (and not every year). I would be reluctant to add that much
powder to the system out of fear that it would cause problems.

Bob

"James1549" <jame...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031110192504...@mb-m06.aol.com...
> ... Then be

[C. E. White]

Dexcool is ethleye glycol based just like standard Peak. The only difference is
the anti-corrosion additives. If the car didn't come with Dexcool (the
red/orange stuff), I would not switch now.

See http://www.penray.com/bulletins/dexcool.htm

Regards,

Ed White

[Bob Shuman]

Ed,

Thanks for the URL and other input. I learned a good deal about Dexcool (I
never had a vehicle that used long life coolant so have never used it
before).

The 1996 Saturn definitely had the traditional yellow (was not orange)
antifreeze in it so it agrees with the info on the web site that Saturn did
not convert to Dexcool till 1997 model year. Based on the previous owner's
records, this vehicle experienced the common single overhead cam head defect
(blown head gasket). As a result, the head itself, all of the hoses, the
coolant recovery bottle, thermostat, and coolant were all replaced under
warranty about 3 years back. I figure that the yellow stuff is what got put
in at the dealer, so it appears they followed the advice given not to
convert as the new fluid would be permanently "contaminated."

Looks like I need to check out some of the generic traditional yellow
coolant to find one that is Phosphate free and then flush and refill.
Thanks to Jeff McDonald for the suggestion to look for the Texaco product.
Unfortunately, I doubt I will find this where I live since there are not any
local Texaco stations that I am aware of.

Bob

"C. E. White" <cewh...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3FB2310F...@mindspring.com...

[C. E. White]

I suggest you look for antifreeze that meets the requirments specified
in your owner's guide. Not all manufacturer's agree that phosphate free
antifreeze is needed.

See:

http://www.peakantifreeze.com/faq.html#C

Other manufacturer's offer phosphate free formulas:

http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=10
http://library.cbest.chevron.com/lubes/compprd9.nsf/0/2f341cfc5662164f88256ccd00619887?OpenDocument
http://www.shell-lubricants.com/products/products.php?c=12

Ed