95 Honda Civic Hesitation/shaking when accelerating
Jacob
173,000 miles
The other day I noticed that on the way to work in the morning, my car
had a very hard time accelerating (felt like it was going to stall).
It happened only one time though during that trip. I had driven about
2 miles and was departing from stop light. It drove fine the rest of
the day. The same thing happened the next day at the exact same spot.
Then the next day it did the same thing at the same spot but this time
it didn't go away. It seems to idle ok most of the time. The
skipping/hesitation/shaking occurs only when accelerating and at all
gears,
The check engine light has not come on at all.
I replaced the fuel filter and that did nothing.
I replaced the 02 sensor within the last two years, and when that went
bad my check engine light came on and I noticed different syptoms. I
don't think it is the 02 sensor.
The TPS is getting the proper voltage. I have replaced the TPS in
another car that had similar trouble and that fixed it. This TPS is
much more difficult to replace and test because it is part of the
throttle body.
I don't think my car has a EGR valve so that can't be an issue. If it
does have one, I don't know where it is.
I have been using fuel injector cleaner.
I recently had a leak in the radiator which caused my car to overheat.
I stopped driving it as soon as I noticed it overheating. I used
bars-leaks sealer to fix the leaks in the radiator and flushed the
coolant system. no more leaks and the cooling system seems to be
working fine now. I tried to get all the air out using the bleeder
valve. I am mentioning this because It could be related.
Another thing that might be related: a few months ago my car would not
start after sitting out in heavy rain. this seems to happen every once
in a while now. Usually only if it is a very heavy rain and even then
not always. When that happens, I spray the wires/distributor/etc.
with WD-40 and wait a few minutes. It usually starts after that.
I don't know what to check next. I want to spend as little as
possible. I don't know that much about cars, but I am willing to put
some effort into this if it saves me money. I would appreciate any
help I can get.
Thanks,
Jacob
jim beam
similar on mine recently. new plug leads, problem completely gone.
ymmv, but check them out.
Elle
genuine Honda)? How old are they in miles and years? This
sure leaps out at me. Some very good hints (and cheap ones)
appear at
http://tegger.com/hondafaq/startproblems.html
To be complete: Is the oxygen sensor an OEM one? But I agree
one should get a Check Engine Light for a bad O2 sensor
given the severity of the symptoms.
You are correct about the EGR system: Your Civic does not
have one.
What do you mean you "tried" to get all the air out? What
did you do?
The procedure for an air purge of your 95 Civic cooling
system is free online at the manuals at Autozone.com and
http://www.honda.co.uk/car/owner/workshop.html . This should
cost you nothing in parts and just a bit of time,
labor-wise. I would do it. The fan may take as long as 40
minutes to come on during this procedure, even on a warm
day.
"Jacob" <jlon...@gmail.com> wrote
Jacob
As far as I know, the distributor cap, rotor, wires etc. are all the
original parts. I don't remember the brand of the oxygen sensor. I
just bought the cheapest one I could get.
I flushed the radiator following the manual. I used the bleeder valve
to let the air bubbles out until coolant came out in a steady stream.
the heat was working, no strange idling, and the fan kicked on.
So it seems like my next step would be to replace the leads and
distributor cap...? is it possible to replace the rotor and/or coil
without replacing the entire distributor. Should I consider replacing
these as well or just try the wires and cap first?
Elle wrote:
High Tech Misfit
If the O2 sensor was the "cheapest one" you could get, I would consider that
to be a likely suspect. Non-OEM O2 sensors are known for not working
properly in Hondas.
The distributor cap and rotor should be replaced for good measure too, and
they don't cost much.
Jacob
sensor for a while and my car did not behave as badly as it is now.
I'm not ruling it out, but I hope it isnt. I couldn't change it by
myself last time because it had become one with the manifold, and I
don't have the tools to do that.
Thanks for your advice. I will get a distributor cap and a rotor. How
difficult is it to get the rotor off? I couldn't readily see how it
disconnected when I looked at it. Do you think it would be wise to try
replacing just the cap and rotor before buying the wires? I guess
there is no harm in trying one thing at a time.
looking at the distributor cap, I find it hard to believe that it is
what's causing this problem. there is nothing to it. I cleaned it off
with some contact cleaner. I feel like there is something else, like
the coil. I dont know.
Elle
> Thanks for the prompt response.
>
> As far as I know, the distributor cap, rotor, wires etc.
> are all the
> original parts.
Then they are highly suspect. Routinely replacing these
ignition parts (cap, rotor, wires, and plugs), along with a
quick check of the timing, is a modern tune-up these days.
Do read the part of Tegger's site I linked before! It has
some quick and dirty checks you can do to see if the wires
are bad. If you have a multimeter, check that the resistance
of each wires is under 15k ohms.
The distributor cap is a big deal. It transmits high current
to the wires. An imperceptible crack in it, for one, will
cause bad running etc. There are metal parts in it that
conduct electricity and can easily become messed up. Newbies
in particular are known to slap these one and bust off a
main electrical conductor. Slide it on in a horizontal
plane, carefully.
> I don't remember the brand of the oxygen sensor. I
> just bought the cheapest one I could get.
That is something to consider then. High Tech Misfit is
correct re the reports of non-OEM oxygen sensors.
See
http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id9.html for three
OEM online Honda parts places that will beat your local
dealer's prices for OEM parts. Also, there's a link to a
great OEM oxygen sensor online store. I've used all these
places. Lately I'm using the Colorado store a lot, because
over $50, shipping is 10% of the order. That's the best deal
for shipping.
> I flushed the radiator following the manual. I used the
> bleeder valve
> to let the air bubbles out until coolant came out in a
> steady stream.
> the heat was working, no strange idling, and the fan
> kicked on.
>
> So it seems like my next step would be to replace the
> leads and
> distributor cap...? is it possible to replace the rotor
> and/or coil
> without replacing the entire distributor. Should I
> consider replacing
> these as well or just try the wires and cap first?
I would start with the wires, plugs, and cap. You should do
the rotor at some point. Buy only OEM for these parts.
(Note: I am frugal, but I learned the hard way that paying a
little more up front for OEM distributor parts ensures the
car drives longer.)
Your owner's manual should recommend NGK plugs and maybe one
or two other brands. Use the ones it recommends. Lots here
like NGKs. No need to go platinum.
It's very important to maintain these particular parts in
near new condition, else the coil will be overloaded and its
life, shortened.
You certainly do not need to replace the whole distributor.
Note that the "whole distributor" includes the following
parts which are all ultimately replaced on older Hondas:
Distributor Housing (bearing, among other things, often goes
bad)
Ignition Coil
Igniter
Cap
Rotor
Here's a nice exploded view of the distributor:
Jacob
things worse. now my car idles poorly. You can hear sputtering coming
from my tailpipe. It's a very erradic idle. up and down. It almost
sounds like it's going to stall at some points. I have no trouble
starting the car though.
I made sure the cooling system was bled properly. I let my car idle
for almost an hour. It took a long time for the fan to come on but it
did twice.
I did not see any arching when I looked at the wires while it was
running in the dark.
I tried checking the wires (which I did not yet replace) with an ohm
meter. I don't know what the problem is, but I cannot get any
continuity accross any of the wires. I put one lead in the spark plug
end, making sure I had contact with metal, and I put the other lead on
the distributor end touching metal, and nothing. The meter did
nothing. I even stuck a screwdriver into the sparkplug end to make
sure I was toughing the right park of metal.
I don't see how the car would be running if there was no continuity at
all, so i must be doing something wrong.
I guess I could try replacing the wires, but I hate to keep throwing
money at this and only making it worse.
Thanks for your help though. I appreciate all the information. and I
would appreciate anymore help you can provide me with.
Jacob
could not get a reading. I didn't expect the resistance to be so high.
I tested them on the 20k setting and got 7.0 ~ 10.0 for all the wires.
I assume that is ok, since I read that below 25k is good. I wiggled
them around and the resistance did not change much.
Elle
Did you put in new NGK plugs?
If possible, check the timing. You need a timing light to do
so. If these don't fix it, then the non-OEM O2 sensor is
still a candidate for the cause of this, IMO. This is
despite what you wrote about the car's performance without
it, etc. A new, OEM one is about $70 total at the site I
gave earlier. I know you don't buy that...
"Jacob" <jlon...@gmail.com> wrote
jim beam
ohm meter doesn't test that at all. at $34 for a new set of leads that
need replacing periodically anyway, i'd replace them to eliminate them
from the equation.
Curly Q. Links
-----------------------------------------
Hmmm. I wonder if you've been pursuing an untamed ornithoid. A Honda
automatic will give the symptoms you described if the ATF is old, or has
been replaced with non-Honda stuff. I'd do a drain-n-fill with Honda Z1
and see if it shapes up. Actually, at your mileage I'd do it at least
twice,and I'd fill the coolant reservoir to the MAX, because the owner's
manual says you should after any rad work.
'Curly'
Jacob
So your telling me that it could be my transmission that is causing
this? My car has a manual transmission, if that makes a difference. I
am also noticing the problem while my car is idling in neutral which
leads me to believe that the transmission is not the culprit.
My cooant resevoir is filled to the Max line.
I did not yet change my spark plugs. Does anyone know if autozone will
lend you a sparkplug socket? I have sparkplug sockets, but they arent
log enough to reach these plugs. Is there a trick to this that I am
not seeing?
I suppose I will replace the wires, then the plugs, and then maybe go
for the 02 sensor. I am avoind the 02, not because of the cost of the
sensor itself, but because the last one cost $250 to put in becuase I
couldn't do it and they had to retap it. This is getting expensive. I
wonder what would have happened if I just took in into a shop?
I have heard that a bad catalytic converter could cause this. Is there
any reason for me to consider this?
Elle
>I spend most of my life chasing an untamed ornithoid.
>
> So your telling me that it could be my transmission that
> is causing
> this? My car has a manual transmission, if that makes a
> difference. I
> am also noticing the problem while my car is idling in
> neutral which
> leads me to believe that the transmission is not the
> culprit.
>
> My cooant resevoir is filled to the Max line.
>
> I did not yet change my spark plugs. Does anyone know if
> autozone will
> lend you a sparkplug socket? I have sparkplug sockets,
> but they arent
> log enough to reach these plugs. Is there a trick to this
> that I am
> not seeing?
All you need is a sufficiently long, 3/8-inch drive
extension and one of the long 16 mm sockets. The extension
is just a long rod with one end that fits into the ratchet
and the other, into the socket. Very common. Autozone should
sell these for a few dollars each. Or you can buy a whole
extension set. You'll use these again, if you continue with
your car repair work.
Take a measurement to see how much extension you need. I
think it's around ten inches.
Harbor Freight is a tool store whose prices may beat
Autozone. True Value and Sears also seem to beat or have
very similar prices for tools compared to Autozone.
> I suppose I will replace the wires, then the plugs, and
> then maybe go
> for the 02 sensor.
I would start with the plugs, especially if they're over a
couple years old. They will cost you about $15. Don't go
cheap. Buy the NGK brand but non-platinum.
For about the third time: Did you spray down the wires with
misting water, with the car idling, to see how it responds,
per Tegger's site?
> I am avoind the 02, not because of the cost of the
> sensor itself, but because the last one cost $250 to put
> in becuase I
> couldn't do it and they had to retap it.
Since it's fairly freshly re-tapped, it should be easy to
replace. You can borrow (for a fully refundable deposit) an
O2 sensor wrench from Autozone and try it, first, if you
like.
PB Blaster is a penetrating oil that greatly helps free
rusted parts, especially one's exposed to the heat and
chemicals of exhaust. You might spray a little of this into
the threaded region of the O2 sensor. Capillary action
causes it to be sucked into the threads. Four bucks a ban at
Wal-Mart.
> This is getting expensive. I
> wonder what would have happened if I just took in into a
> shop?
>
> I have heard that a bad catalytic converter could cause
> this. Is there
> any reason for me to consider this?
The plugs are vital to the car's operation. You haven't said
how old they are.
You need to fathom why cars are regularly tuned up ( = new
plugs, wires, distributor cap, rotor, air filter, fuel
filter, timing check). If the plugs have been neglected, you
bet this will cause running problems.
Elle
> All you need is a sufficiently long, 3/8-inch drive
> extension and one of the long 16 mm sockets.
Correction: Of course if the socket is 1/2-inch drive,
you'll need a 1/2-inch drive extension or an adapter set.
Just describe what you're doing at Autozone, and they should
take you right to the tools you'll need.
I use my 3/8-inch drive tools much more than my 1/2-inch
drive ones. I'd go with the 3/8-inch drive extension and the
appropriate adapter(s).
Plus the 3/8-inch drive tools are cheaper than 1/2-inch
drive ones.
Jacob
Elle wrote:
> For about the third time: Did you spray down the wires with
> misting water, with the car idling, to see how it responds,
> per Tegger's site?
I was going to try that test, but my car was idling so poorly already
that I didn't think it would help me determine anything.
> Since it's fairly freshly re-tapped, it should be easy to
> replace. You can borrow (for a fully refundable deposit) an
> O2 sensor wrench from Autozone and try it, first, if you
> like.
That is a good point. I will see if I can get it out and then consider
replacing it.
> The plugs are vital to the car's operation. You haven't said
> how old they are.
The plugs are very old I'm sure. They have not been replaced as long
as I have owned the car (6 years). So that is something I should
consider.
The only thing I am unsure about is checking the timing. I do not have
a timing light and have no idea how to use one.
Elle
> The plugs are very old I'm sure. They have not been
> replaced as long
> as I have owned the car (6 years). So that is something I
> should
> consider.
For the 95 Civic, the spark plugs are supposed to be
replaced every two years or 30k miles, whichever comes
first.
Do you have an owner's manual? It has a maintenance schedule
that, you should follow, assuming you want the car to last
and be reliable.
Or print out the maintenance schedules for the 95 at
Jacob
Grumpy AuContraire
Jacob wrote:
>
> Elle wrote:
>
> > For about the third time: Did you spray down the wires with
> > misting water, with the car idling, to see how it responds,
> > per Tegger's site?
>
> I was going to try that test, but my car was idling so poorly already
> that I didn't think it would help me determine anything.
>
It will if your car stalls out...
Jacob
Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
> Jacob wrote:
> >
> > Elle wrote:
> >
> > > For about the third time: Did you spray down the wires with
> > > misting water, with the car idling, to see how it responds,
> > > per Tegger's site?
> >
> > I was going to try that test, but my car was idling so poorly already
> > that I didn't think it would help me determine anything.
> >
>
> It will if your car stalls out...
>
True. I might try that before I replace the wires. Thanks.
Jacob
every gear, smoothing out at higher RPM. the behavior worsened as the
engine heated up.
CAUSE: faulty (old and worn) spark plugs that were well past their
expiration.
SOLUTION: replace them with new ones.
NOTES: well, it was the spark plugs. I don't feel bad about replacing
the fuel filter, distributor cap and rotor as well though, and I still
might replace the wires because these are all parts that needed
replacing anyway. Plus, the problem with my car not starting after a
heavy rain was not likely caused by bad spark plugs. I have yet so see
if that still occurs. I did the water spray test though and I didn't
notice a change. I also might need to set my idle speed. My car seems
to be idling at lower RPM than it did before I changed the distributor
cap and rotor. I would like to check the timing and do anything else
that might increase my gas mileage.
Thank you all so much for your help. I can't tell you how much I
appreciate it.
Elle
> SYMPTOMS: car hesitating, shaking and misfiring on
> acceleration in
> every gear, smoothing out at higher RPM. the behavior
> worsened as the
> engine heated up.
>
> CAUSE: faulty (old and worn) spark plugs that were well
> past their
> expiration.
>
> SOLUTION: replace them with new ones.
>
> NOTES: well, it was the spark plugs. I don't feel bad
> about replacing
> the fuel filter, distributor cap and rotor as well though,
> and I still
> might replace the wires because these are all parts that
> needed
> replacing anyway.
Right on, Jacob! These will help your fuel mileage and the
longevity of more expensive parts, like the ignition coil.
> Plus, the problem with my car not starting after a
> heavy rain was not likely caused by bad spark plugs.
I wouldn't say that just yet.
I have yet so see
> if that still occurs. I did the water spray test though
> and I didn't
> notice a change. I also might need to set my idle speed.
> My car seems
> to be idling at lower RPM than it did before I changed the
> distributor
> cap and rotor. I would like to check the timing and do
> anything else
> that might increase my gas mileage.
Ebay has good deals on timing lights. One does not need
anything fancy.
> Thank you all so much for your help. I can't tell you how
> much I
> appreciate it.
Way to persist. Lesson learned is that many folks posting
here are kinda newbies to automotive diagnosis and
maintenance, so one should not assume something as basic as
the plugs have been regularly changed.
Kevin McMurtrie
"Jacob" <jlon...@gmail.com> wrote:
If there's no knock sensor just advance the timing a small bit each week
until the engine sometimes buzzes or growls, then turn it back until it
always runs quietly. Otherwise have a shop to it for a few dollars and
let the knock sensor do the fine tuning itself.
Jacob
How do I determine if it has a knock sensor?
I'm not sure if I should even mess with the timing. It's running ok.
I just want to make sure it is running at it's best possible
efficiency. It sometimes idles around 500 RPM. Seems low to me.
Kevin McMurtrie
"Jacob" <jlon...@gmail.com> wrote:
You better not mess with it if you don't know whether or not it has a
knock sensor. Have a shop do it.
eddieb...@gmail.com
smithd...@gmail.com
It's nothing ANY of you have mentioned.
The problem is the ICM. (Ignition control module.) This is a part usually located inside the distributor of a civic. 92-2000 anyway.
When this thing starts to die it inaccurately adjusts the timing for acceleration making the car sputter.
Change this and you'll be good.