American vs. Japanese brand cars
Paul Michael Holland II
Lloyd R. Parker wrote:
> Followup-To: rec.auto,rec.auto.misc,rec.autos,rec.autos.4x4,rec.autos.antique,rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.makers,rec.autos.makers.chrysler,rec.autos.makers.ford,rec.autos.makers.ford.explorer,rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang,rec.autos.makers.honda,rec.autos.
> m
> References: <69bjv8$o...@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> <uNbFAR$H9GA.205@upnetnews04>
> Organization: Emory University
> Distribution:
>
> Paul Gerlach (paul...@email.msn.com) wrote:
> : While it is true that Japanese cars were better built in the 80's, can you
> : name a Japanese car that appreciated in value or has become a collectible
> : car?
>
> MR2 perhaps. The first Isuzu Impulse (on styling). Mazda Miata and
> Acura NSX (didn't they come out in the late 80s?).
>
Sorry to burst you bubble, but none of the cars you listed are collectable nore have they appreaciated in value. The NSX has actually lost over 15,000 from original purchase date, and the Miata, never came close. First they don't hold up very well, and
there are more Miatas on the streets (of the world) than any other car, which says they will not appreaciate.
> : I can't think of any, but American manufacturers can claim the Buick
> : Grand Nationals, Pace cars of any year, several Mustangs, Camaros,
> : Firebirds, Vettes, Thunderbirds, etc.
> : This definitely says something about American cars.
> : Any comments?
>
> Yes. Any car mass-produced like Mustangs and Camaros are never going to
> be collectibles. The Thunderbirds were mostly ho-hum and not collectible
> either (maybe the Turbo Coupe will be). The only American collectibles
> of the era would be Fieros, Corvette ZR1s, Mustang SVOs, maybe Taurus
> SHOs, GNXs and Grand Nationals, maybe the Reatta.
>
The Mustangs and Comaros he was referring to were a few, not all, reread above..
> It isn't collectible just because it's rwd and fast. It has to be rare,
> and it has to be significant.
Dale P.......
Well straighten these Folk out here Kevin, do you still work for Mazda? I
personally think from my own experience, having worked for Mazda, Nissan, and
three Divisions of G.M., there ain't a whole lot of Difference now days
folks... If you want to brag about assembly, thats fine Ford/Mazda has one of
the leading high Tech assembly plants in the world, in Mich...... G.M. also has
some state of the art plants, alot of which aren't in this country or on this
continent... The parts are likely to arreive at these assembly plants from just
about any country...
Dale Peterson Seattle area
Kevin Clark wrote:
>
>
> Actually, you said you had the 3.0L engine so I think it's highly
> unlikely that you had a Mazda built transmission. Mazda built the 2.2L
> 4-cylinder engine, for Probes, but the 3.0L V-6 is a German (Ford of
> Europe) design. It's possible the tranny is German, but I think was
> American designed and built.
>
> BTW, your Explorer's 4.0L V-6 was also based on the German Ford engine.
>
> Kevin Clark (remove all x's to reply)
> Dallas, Texas
Lloyd R. Parker
Paul Michael Holland II (hol...@netdoor.com) wrote:
: Sorry to burst you bubble, but none of the cars you listed are collectable nore have they appreaciated in value. The NSX has actually lost over 15,000 from original purchase date, and the Miata, never came close. First they don't hold up very well, an
d
: there are more Miatas on the streets (of the world) than any other car, which says they will not appreaciate.
More Miatas than Beetles? Corollas? Huh?
The NSX is rare, significant, and highly praised. It will be a
collectible. A lot of US cars which are now collectibles depreciated at
first too (Rivieras, Mustangs, etc.).
: >
:
: The Mustangs and Comaros he was referring to were a few, not all, reread above..
From the 80s? Nope, only the Mustang SVO has a chance. Earlier models,
maybe more.
Rexven
>> : While it is true that Japanese cars were better built in the 80's, can you
>> : name a Japanese car that appreciated in value or has become a collectible
>> : car?
>> MR2 perhaps. The first Isuzu Impulse (on styling). Mazda Miata and
>> Acura NSX (didn't they come out in the late 80s?).
>Sorry to burst you bubble, but none of the cars you listed are collectable nore have they appreaciated in value. The NSX has actually lost over 15,000 from original purchase date, and the Miata, never came close. First they don't hold up very well, and
>there are more Miatas on the streets (of the world) than any other car, which says they will not appreaciate.
Out of that list the '91 British Racing Green Miata is the only one
that reached collectible status. At one point you could get $10k MORE
than what you paid for it even if you had put 45k miles on it! That
car is still worth considerably more than any other Miata on the road,
the rest, however, have depreciated very slowly. They are currently
2nd for resale value and have remained that way since they fell to
second behind the Saturn SC2/SL2's. Not to shabby for a 10 year old
car, eh?
How about a few cars that HAVE appreciated dramatically:
240Z
260Z
Datsun 1600 & 2000 Roadsters
Datsun B510 (mostly due to their growing popularity with the
autocross/SCCA crowds)
RX3 & RX4's (ditto)
Earliest RX7's (the 2nd and third gen are losing a lot of value each
year but appear to have stabilized and will likely go back up a tick
over the next few years)
Some Mitsubishi Galant VR4's (if properly maintained) can fetch more
than they were originally but this is a rare example (again, they are
top targets for the SCCA Pro-Rally crew)
How much did the original Honda CVCC's cost and how much are they now?
Not sure if they appreciated or pretty much stayed the same.
>> : I can't think of any, but American manufacturers can claim the Buick
>> : Grand Nationals, Pace cars of any year, several Mustangs, Camaros,
>> : Firebirds, Vettes, Thunderbirds, etc.
>> : This definitely says something about American cars.
>> : Any comments?
>> Yes. Any car mass-produced like Mustangs and Camaros are never going to
>> be collectibles. The Thunderbirds were mostly ho-hum and not collectible
>> either (maybe the Turbo Coupe will be). The only American collectibles
>> of the era would be Fieros, Corvette ZR1s, Mustang SVOs, maybe Taurus
>> SHOs, GNXs and Grand Nationals, maybe the Reatta.
Fiero's are not collectible cars. Corvette ZR1's are not really
collectible either if you go by how much they are depreciating. A few
perfectly maintained and STOCK SVO's might maintain some value but to
many have been torn up. The SHO and Reatta fail the collectors test.
The Caddilac Alante would likely be a better contender in that area.
GNX's are collectors cars but I can't say for sure on GN's. They have
a following for the drag strip, but that does not necessarily mean
it's a collectors car. (Heck, Fiero's have people following 'em with
hot-dogs and marshmellows but that doesn't mean they are collector
cars ;) I'm assuming the T-birds, Vettes, and other pony cars he
mentioned above were the classics, not the current. The current cars
(even the first year C5) are not going to be collectors cars. Not even
the Cobra Convertible (which accounts for about 1 out of 3 Mustangs on
the road down here, 3 out of 5 are Cobra Coupes, most of the rest are
V6's). The Camaro's and Camaro SS's are to common as well. The way
things are now every car is so overproduced that there is little
reason or need to attatch collectors status to them. Average C5
sightings in a day? 10 in Tampa Bay. So much for "rare car status".
Average Viper sightings? 2 per day. They have a better chance but are
already losing money fast. Maybe they will rebound.
>The Mustangs and Comaros he was referring to were a few, not all, reread above..
>> It isn't collectible just because it's rwd and fast. It has to be rare,
>> and it has to be significant.
If the bean counters have their way anything RWD will become sought
after! Why can't they figure out that Wrong Wheel Drive only works
when coupled with Rear Wheel Drive!
How to remove Road Rage: Make everyone drive a Miata at least once a week!
'93 Mazda Miata B-pkg w/mods (Project Miata)
'93 Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 w/mild mods
To see them browse:
http://www.mindspring.com/~vdragon
Remove *nolamers* to e-mail.
Dana Leasman
>Fiero's are not collectible cars. Corvette ZR1's are not really
>collectible either if you go by how much they are depreciating. A few
>perfectly maintained and STOCK SVO's might maintain some value but to
>many have been torn up. The SHO and Reatta fail the collectors test.
>The Caddilac Alante would likely be a better contender in that area.
>GNX's are collectors cars but I can't say for sure on GN's. They have
>a following for the drag strip, but that does not necessarily mean
>it's a collectors car. (Heck, Fiero's have people following 'em with
>hot-dogs and marshmellows but that doesn't mean they are collector
>cars ;) I'm assuming the T-birds, Vettes, and other pony cars he
>mentioned above were the classics, not the current. The current cars
>(even the first year C5) are not going to be collectors cars. Not even
>the Cobra Convertible (which accounts for about 1 out of 3 Mustangs on
>the road down here, 3 out of 5 are Cobra Coupes, most of the rest are
>V6's). The Camaro's and Camaro SS's are to common as well. The way
>things are now every car is so overproduced that there is little
>reason or need to attatch collectors status to them. Average C5
>sightings in a day? 10 in Tampa Bay. So much for "rare car status".
>Average Viper sightings? 2 per day. They have a better chance but are
>already losing money fast. Maybe they will rebound.
Speaking of the SHO (Taurus), mentioned in the text above...
Just about the fastest stock vehicle made by Ford at the time, with a YAMAHA
engine!
Allen Kirby
Dana Leasman wrote:
<snip>
> Speaking of the SHO (Taurus), mentioned in the text above...
> Just about the fastest stock vehicle made by Ford at the time, with a YAMAHA
> engine!
Only the heads were Yamaha, IIRC (which I may not...)
Not taking sides, just stating facts (I hope).
--
Allen Kirby
AT&T Information Technology Services
Alpharetta, GA.
The views expressed here are mine, not my employers.
Steven Fisher
SHO the fastest ford? That thing isn't even as fast as a Mustang GT is it,
let alone a Cobra? How about the SVT Lightening -- definantly a Ford
engine, and it's a truck!
Usually if someone else besides Ford makes parts, it's because they are
low-volume items Ford doesn't want to deal with; like Cobra blocks.
Allen Kirby wrote in message <34BD0D...@att.com>...
P. J. Remner
In a previous article, WI...@GLIDE.HD (<><> HOG FVR <><>) says:
>Lloyd R. Parker wrote:
>
>> Paul Gerlach (paul...@email.msn.com) wrote:
>> : While it is true that Japanese cars were better built in the 80's, can you
>> : name a Japanese car that appreciated in value or has become a collectible
>> : car?
>
>> MR2 perhaps. The first Isuzu Impulse (on styling). Mazda Miata and
>> Acura NSX (didn't they come out in the late 80s?).
>
>Isuzu Impulse, you're kidding!!!
Yeah man, they're Giugiaro designed, and they're full of slick
little features, mine has more luxo power stuff than a same-year
Lincoln or Caddy, multi-way adjustable seats, a monoblade windshield
wiper (that Rice-Boys are spending tons of dough to convert to!),
and the door armrests flip up to reveal HUGE deep wells perfect for
storing maps. Only 1911 Turbo models were imported in '85, between
'85 and '89, only 19,200-ish were imported.
And they look *killer* in black.
--
Shallow Pockets Racing Team
"That blowed up real good"
How much boost could a Subaru take if a Subaru could make boost?
paul.b....@boeing.com
> > Speaking of the SHO (Taurus), mentioned in the text above...
> > Just about the fastest stock vehicle made by Ford at the time, with a YAMAHA
> > engine!
>
> Only the heads were Yamaha, IIRC (which I may not...)
> Not taking sides, just stating facts (I hope).
The way I remember it was that the heads were all Yamaha made in Japan.
The block was a Yamaha design made by Ford in the US. (???)
--
_________________________________________
Paul O'Gorman
Boeing (BCAG) 777 division
-----------------------------------------
93 Explorer Sport-R 4x4
97 Neon SOHC 16v
-----------------------------------------
paul.b....@boeing.com
> >Isuzu Impulse, you're kidding!!!
>
> Yeah man, they're Giugiaro designed, and they're full of slick
> little features, mine has more luxo power stuff than a same-year
> Lincoln or Caddy, multi-way adjustable seats, a monoblade windshield
> wiper (that Rice-Boys are spending tons of dough to convert to!),
> and the door armrests flip up to reveal HUGE deep wells perfect for
> storing maps. Only 1911 Turbo models were imported in '85, between
> '85 and '89, only 19,200-ish were imported.
Then there was the 90-91. Turbo (91 only) gained a few Hp (up to 160hp
total) and the car got AWD.
Your forgetting the Lotus tuned suspension also.
While this car is interesting, im afraid it will never gain collector
status, just enthusiast praise.
paul.b....@boeing.com
Steven Fisher wrote:
>
> SHO the fastest ford? That thing isn't even as fast as a Mustang GT is it,
> let alone a Cobra? How about the SVT Lightening -- definantly a Ford
> engine, and it's a truck!
Heck even the Contour SVT (2.5 H.O. 195hp) is faster than the SHO (0-60
in 7.7 vs 7.4 for Contour SVT)
Lloyd R. Parker
paul.b.o'gor...@boeing.com wrote:
:
: The way I remember it was that the heads were all Yamaha made in Japan.
: The block was a Yamaha design made by Ford in the US. (???)
The V6 SHO engine was made in Japan by Yamaha, I believe. The current SHO
V8 engine block is made in the US, shipped to Japan where Yamaha puts the
heads on, then shipped back to the US.
Rexven
paul.b.o'gor...@boeing.com wrote:
>> >Isuzu Impulse, you're kidding!!!
>>
>> Yeah man, they're Giugiaro designed, and they're full of slick
>> little features, mine has more luxo power stuff than a same-year
>> Lincoln or Caddy, multi-way adjustable seats, a monoblade windshield
>> wiper (that Rice-Boys are spending tons of dough to convert to!),
>> and the door armrests flip up to reveal HUGE deep wells perfect for
>> storing maps. Only 1911 Turbo models were imported in '85, between
>> '85 and '89, only 19,200-ish were imported.
>Then there was the 90-91. Turbo (91 only) gained a few Hp (up to 160hp
>total) and the car got AWD.
>Your forgetting the Lotus tuned suspension also.
>While this car is interesting, im afraid it will never gain collector
>status, just enthusiast praise.
When did ANY Impulse ever get AWD??? I know they gained an intercooler
and some handling tweaks by Lotus. (It seems that most people who see
Lotus marked anywhere on their car assumes that Lotus BUILT their
cars. Talk about some odd conversations).
Rexven
DAMN!!! Talk about slamming the US!! You mean to tell me that the US
engineers and production people are so incompetent that they have to
ship the motors all the way to Japan in order to bolt on some cylinder
heads, then ship them all the way back? It's no wonder that car is so
overpriced!! Sheesh. You'd think they could simply ship the heads to
the US and let our guys do it.. but then again look at what it takes
in time, training, effort, expense just to put together the Cobra
motors.. Guess the US has a lot farther to go than I thought..
Lloyd R. Parker
Rexven (nolamer...@mindspring.com) wrote:
: When did ANY Impulse ever get AWD??? I know they gained an intercooler
: and some handling tweaks by Lotus. (It seems that most people who see
: Lotus marked anywhere on their car assumes that Lotus BUILT their
: cars. Talk about some odd conversations).
The second generation had awd (in fact, the turbo came only with awd).
This is the Impulse the Geo Storn was based on.
paul.b....@boeing.com
Only the 91 had Turbo/AWD. It wasnt based off the Storm. It is the other
way around. Isuzu developed the Impulse platform and then spawned two
cars from it, the Storm, and the Stylus (Isuzu).
Rexven
lpa...@larry.cc.emory.edu (Lloyd R. Parker) wrote:
>Rexven (nolamer...@mindspring.com) wrote:
>: When did ANY Impulse ever get AWD??? I know they gained an intercooler
>: and some handling tweaks by Lotus. (It seems that most people who see
>: Lotus marked anywhere on their car assumes that Lotus BUILT their
>: cars. Talk about some odd conversations).
>The second generation had awd (in fact, the turbo came only with awd).
>This is the Impulse the Geo Storn was based on.
And what country was this imported to? Certainly not America. either
that or Kim's '90-91 Impulse is missing it's rear drive shafts and
differential..
FRDCP32
Lets all just say this is an Explorer news group and that means we like
american cars and trucks,therefore if you like Japan and their cars either go
to a news group for them, or move there and become one of them.I heard thats
all they sell there!
My two cents,
Darryl
P. J. Remner
In a previous article, "paul.b.o'gorman"@boeing.com () says:
>> >e.g. Year 2020: Fred, have you checked out my '88 Grand National? Fastest
>> >production car made during that time, and man I get a lot of impressed
>> >stares when I drive by. Or, same year: Fred, want to go for a ride in my
>> >'68 Shelby Cobra? 428 cubic inches of pure power! These classic lines turn
>> >everyones heads! Nothing could be better!
>> >
>> >See my point? This still isn't possible in a Japanese made car.
>>
>> Holy $#it! Is that a SKYLINE?!?!?!?!
>
>You wont be seeing people yell that in the US. Sure wish we could
>though.
Actually, if I saw a Skyline, *any* Skyline, in the US,
that'd be the first thing I'd say.
A Skyline in the US isn't as unlikely as finding an '88 GN *anywhere*,
though. Might as well get a '92 CRX, maybe a '96 5.0 Mustang? :-)
>people will gawk at an NSX though.
Yeah, and we think that same thing we think when we see a Ferrari
Testarossa... "Wow, what a dumbass."
P. J. Remner
In a previous article, lpa...@larry.cc.emory.edu (Lloyd R. Parker) says:
>Rexven (nolamer...@mindspring.com) wrote:
>: When did ANY Impulse ever get AWD??? I know they gained an intercooler
>: and some handling tweaks by Lotus. (It seems that most people who see
>: Lotus marked anywhere on their car assumes that Lotus BUILT their
>: cars. Talk about some odd conversations).
>
>The second generation had awd (in fact, the turbo came only with awd).
>This is the Impulse the Geo Storn was based on.
>
I thought all Turbo Impulses had intercoolers.
I have an '85, first year for Isuzu turbo, and it most definitely
has an intercooler.
(and three "really blowin'" non-repairable cracks in the head...)
Rexven
aj...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (P. J. Remner) wrote:
>In a previous article, lpa...@larry.cc.emory.edu (Lloyd R. Parker) says:
>>Rexven (nolamer...@mindspring.com) wrote:
>>: When did ANY Impulse ever get AWD??? I know they gained an intercooler
>>: and some handling tweaks by Lotus. (It seems that most people who see
>>: Lotus marked anywhere on their car assumes that Lotus BUILT their
>>: cars. Talk about some odd conversations).
>>The second generation had awd (in fact, the turbo came only with awd).
>>This is the Impulse the Geo Storn was based on.
>I thought all Turbo Impulses had intercoolers.
>I have an '85, first year for Isuzu turbo, and it most definitely
>has an intercooler.
I remember reading that Lotus had something to do with the
intercoolers and motor specs (though not a hand in the motor itself)
maybe they did a redesign or remounted the intercoolers?? I did take a
few minutes tonight to look up the Impulse. I still can't find
anywhere on the net or in my old magazines that lists or even remotely
mentions an Impulse AWD. Then again, finding *any* mention of an
Impulse isn't easy.
>(and three "really blowin'" non-repairable cracks in the head...)
Ouch.. sounds like it's time to replace the car.. (sigh)
Rexven
aj...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (P. J. Remner) wrote:
>>> Holy $#it! Is that a SKYLINE?!?!?!?!
>>You wont be seeing people yell that in the US. Sure wish we could
>>though.
>Actually, if I saw a Skyline, *any* Skyline, in the US,
>that'd be the first thing I'd say.
I have seen one and only one Skyline in the US and it was a GTR. A
medium grey over black interior car. I had no idea what it was and
followed it to find out. (make that tried). Got lucky and found it
parked at a grocery store in the Woodenville area. The year was '92, I
was living in Seattle, the car was (I think) a 90 replete with RHD. I
met the owner, a very pleasant japanese gent who had the car
greymarketted over when he relocated with a software business. Spent a
lot of time explaining the car and complimenting the MR-2 SC. Alas, I
was never treated to a thrill ride.. (sigh) Wonder if the car is still
here? I understand it's not the only one of that era that's in the US.
They have seriously tightened the greymarket standards recently.
>A Skyline in the US isn't as unlikely as finding an '88 GN *anywhere*,
>though. Might as well get a '92 CRX, maybe a '96 5.0 Mustang? :-)
That's okay, I'll sell you that '83 Vette and a '92 RX7. Got a bunch
of 'em. :)
>>people will gawk at an NSX though.
>Yeah, and we think that same thing we think when we see a Ferrari
>Testarossa... "Wow, what a dumbass."
A testarossa draws attention here, at least briefly. An NSX? Might as
well be an Accord. Welcome to Florida.
P. J. Remner
In a previous article, nolamer...@mindspring.com (Rexven) says:
>I remember reading that Lotus had something to do with the
>intercoolers and motor specs (though not a hand in the motor itself)
>maybe they did a redesign or remounted the intercoolers?? I did take a
>few minutes tonight to look up the Impulse. I still can't find
>anywhere on the net or in my old magazines that lists or even remotely
>mentions an Impulse AWD. Then again, finding *any* mention of an
>Impulse isn't easy.
Go to Bill's Isupage (I think new address is www.isuzuperformance.com).
Down near the bottom of the Isupage, there is a sort of "Reader's Rides"
section, look down at the Impulse JI section, there is at least one
Isuzu Impulse RS Turbo AWD (I think...).
As for intercooler placement.... it's not exactly in the best area
as far as airflow is concerned. Roughly 6" by 8" by 3" thick, and
one of the big thick pipes is *directly* in front of it, hindering
what little airflow there is. I can htink of a better place to
mount it, add a little scoop, and get rid of 3 feet of boost-lag-
inducing ductwork.
>>(and three "really blowin'" non-repairable cracks in the head...)
>Ouch.. sounds like it's time to replace the car.. (sigh)
Replace the car???? I just bought it!
I'm 19, I make roughly $15k per year, how the hell can I afford
to buy a *running* car?
Ken Payne
>
>Fiero's are not collectible cars. Corvette ZR1's are not really
>collectible either if you go by how much they are depreciating. A few
>perfectly maintained and STOCK SVO's might maintain some value but to
Get your facts straight. The Corvette has the highest resale value
of any car in the world. And the ZR1 has the highest Corvette resale
value. A five year old Vette retains over 56% of its original purchase
cost on average.
http://www.ford-trucks.com - Ford Truck Enthusiasts
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Ken Payne
lpa...@curly.cc.emory.edu (Lloyd R. Parker) penned:
>paul.b.o'gor...@boeing.com wrote:
>:
>: The way I remember it was that the heads were all Yamaha made in Japan.
>: The block was a Yamaha design made by Ford in the US. (???)
>
>The V6 SHO engine was made in Japan by Yamaha, I believe. The current SHO
>V8 engine block is made in the US, shipped to Japan where Yamaha puts the
>heads on, then shipped back to the US.
>
Lloyd, can you give us a reference to this fact or did you hear
it from a friend?
White Tornado
Personally I think you are full of shit. The Vette has the highest
re-sale value of any car in the WORLD? I can think of one right off
the top of my head that has a much higher re-sale. The Buick GN.
An 87 goes for 2-3 times what a 87 Vette goes for.
Rexven
aj...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (P. J. Remner) wrote:
>Go to Bill's Isupage (I think new address is www.isuzuperformance.com).
>Down near the bottom of the Isupage, there is a sort of "Reader's Rides"
>section, look down at the Impulse JI section, there is at least one
>Isuzu Impulse RS Turbo AWD (I think...).
Thanks, I'll check it out. :)
>As for intercooler placement.... it's not exactly in the best area
>as far as airflow is concerned. Roughly 6" by 8" by 3" thick, and
>one of the big thick pipes is *directly* in front of it, hindering
>what little airflow there is. I can htink of a better place to
>mount it, add a little scoop, and get rid of 3 feet of boost-lag-
>inducing ductwork.
Sounds as bad as the T-bird Turbo Coupe, the Mustang SVO, and the RX-7
Turbo ]['s.. "Lets take the intercooler and set it over the hottest
part of the motor! Let's put it at an angle where it's not likely
going to get much airflow and pretty much negate it's usefulness.. on
the other hand, it does look dandy with a hood scoop!" (sigh) No
wonder the relocation kits are so popular.
>>>(and three "really blowin'" non-repairable cracks in the head...)
>>Ouch.. sounds like it's time to replace the car.. (sigh)
>Replace the car???? I just bought it!
>I'm 19, I make roughly $15k per year, how the hell can I afford
>to buy a *running* car?
Hehe, I bought the Mirage when I wasn't even making $15k a year and it
ran like a top. If you don't have much money buying a dead car in
need of a new engine isn't that economically sound a way to think..
hehe. Good luck on the resurection :)
Rexven
kpayne*antispam*@mindspring.com (Ken Payne) wrote:
>>
>>Fiero's are not collectible cars. Corvette ZR1's are not really
>>collectible either if you go by how much they are depreciating. A few
>>perfectly maintained and STOCK SVO's might maintain some value but to
>Get your facts straight. The Corvette has the highest resale value
>of any car in the world. And the ZR1 has the highest Corvette resale
>value. A five year old Vette retains over 56% of its original purchase
>cost on average.
Hint: stop looking at www.kbb.com.. they are losers. They couldn't put
a decent price on a car if their life depended on it. A corvette
doesn't hold value very well at all. Danged Saturns, Miata's and
pretty much ANY SUV holds their value better than a Corvette,
especially now that SUV's are 'in' and sports cars are 'out'. As for
the ZR1 holding the highest resale of any corvette? I wonder if I
should tell that to the owner of a '63 Split Window Vette.. course, I
better have oxygen on hand or else he's liable to die laughing.
ZR-1's don't hold their value that well around here. We've been
through this argument before.
P. J. Remner
In a previous article, nolamer...@mindspring.com (Rexven) says:
>>I'm 19, I make roughly $15k per year, how the hell can I afford
>>to buy a *running* car?
>Hehe, I bought the Mirage when I wasn't even making $15k a year and it
>ran like a top. If you don't have much money buying a dead car in
>need of a new engine isn't that economically sound a way to think..
>hehe. Good luck on the resurection :)
>
I am a mechanic. My labor is free, and work on that little car
is definitely mostly labor!
I figure, I already have a car with great mechanicals but a severely
rotted body. What I should buy are cars with great bodies and
interiors, but bad mechanicals. $150 for the car, $10 for the timing
belt, $120 for the gasket set, and now $300 for the used head I
ordered - not a bad deal for a great-looking 140hp turbocharged
hatchback! If I can scrape up another $200, I'll have the new
head ported and shaved, and have the old pistons clearanced so
that it won't be an interference engine anymore. Numbers 1 and 2
pistons are already partially "self-clearanced", anyway! :-)
Ken Payne
TheWhit...@yahoo.com (White Tornado) penned:
>Personally I think you are full of shit. The Vette has the highest
>re-sale value of any car in the WORLD? I can think of one right off
>the top of my head that has a much higher re-sale. The Buick GN.
>An 87 goes for 2-3 times what a 87 Vette goes for.
Personally I think you have the mouth of an uneducated cretin. You've
obviously been eating some of the stuff you say I'm full of or you
wouldn't be spouting your foul language on a public group.
I was simply echoing an article from Kipplinger magazine about resale
value. In case they don't sell Kipplinger's at the 7-11 next to your
trailer park - its a well respected finance magazine. Their source
was NADA.
http://www.ford-trucks.com - Ford Truck Enthusiasts
All years and models of Ford trucks discussed on our 4 mailing lists.
-Ken, Admin 1967 Ford F100, 390FE V8
To send me email: kpayne*spam-remove*@mindspring.com
Lloyd R. Parker
Ken Payne (kpayne*antispam*@mindspring.com) wrote:
: >
: >Fiero's are not collectible cars. Corvette ZR1's are not really
: >collectible either if you go by how much they are depreciating. A few
: >perfectly maintained and STOCK SVO's might maintain some value but to
:
: of any car in the world.
Not so. That actually, according to Consumer Reports, belongs to the
Jeep Wrangler, which retains 95% of its value after 3 years. I think
you'll find SUVs and trucks in general having high resale value, due to
the demand these days.
Windsor LX
Ken Payne wrote:
Wow. That was... na 8. Definately a solid 8 !
--
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To Reply, remove the NOSPAM and send.
White Tornado
No an informed cretin.
Unless that is a split window Vette, it's going to lose it's value
faster than a bag of ice in the hot sun.
Joe Mamma
P. J. Remner wrote in message <69rdde$c9r$1...@alexander.INS.CWRU.Edu>...
>
>In a previous article, nolamer...@mindspring.com (Rexven) says:
>
>>I remember reading that Lotus had something to do with the
>>intercoolers and motor specs (though not a hand in the motor itself)
>>maybe they did a redesign or remounted the intercoolers?? I did take a
>>few minutes tonight to look up the Impulse. I still can't find
>>anywhere on the net or in my old magazines that lists or even remotely
>>mentions an Impulse AWD. Then again, finding *any* mention of an
>>Impulse isn't easy.
>
>Go to Bill's Isupage (I think new address is www.isuzuperformance.com).
>Down near the bottom of the Isupage, there is a sort of "Reader's Rides"
>section, look down at the Impulse JI section, there is at least one
>Isuzu Impulse RS Turbo AWD (I think...).
The Impulse RS is a bit of a rarity, but it does exist, and an extra 5-6 psi
from the turbo is well worth the effort to extract.
I maintain the Impulse RS Interest Page -
http://rio.com/~kca/rs.htm
There are specs and plenty of other tidbits of info available at the above
URL.
---
Kip Anderson
91 Impulse RS AWD Turbo
kca(at)rio(dot)com
Ken Payne
lpa...@curly.cc.emory.edu (Lloyd R. Parker) penned:
>Ken Payne (kpayne*antispam*@mindspring.com) wrote:
Quite honestly, I think there are at least 2 dozen "correct"
answers to this question since every magazine claims a different
winner. The part of the country you do a survey in can make
a big difference.
Bentley
Ken Payne (kpayne*antispam*@mindspring.com) said something like:
: I was simply echoing an article from Kipplinger magazine about resale
: value. In case they don't sell Kipplinger's at the 7-11 next to your
: trailer park - its a well respected finance magazine. Their source
: was NADA.
Actually Kiplinger's source is the ALG (Automotive Lease Guide). It only
applies to US-model cars, not the world. And the Corvette's 69% 2-year
residual is matched by Toyota Avalon XLS, and exceeded by a few cars,
including the Porsche Boxster (71%) and Mercedes SL500 (70%). If you were
referring to the Vette's impressive 4-year residual (59%), it is exceeded
by only by one vehicle that I can tell, the Ford Expedition (61%).
You have to keep in mind that the label under the picture of the Vette on
page 106 (looks good in red, doesn't it? Would look good in my driveway,
too...) refers only to that category -- cars over $35,000. For instance,
the Z3 has the same "best resale" label on page 104, but for cars priced
$25,000-$35,000.
--
> B E N T L E Y < ben...@access.digex.net@cyberpromo.com
[remove @cyberpromo.com for correspondence]
Rexven
ben...@access4.digex.net (Bentley) wrote:
>Actually Kiplinger's source is the ALG (Automotive Lease Guide). It only
>applies to US-model cars, not the world. And the Corvette's 69% 2-year
>residual is matched by Toyota Avalon XLS, and exceeded by a few cars,
>including the Porsche Boxster (71%) and Mercedes SL500 (70%). If you were
>referring to the Vette's impressive 4-year residual (59%), it is exceeded
>by only by one vehicle that I can tell, the Ford Expedition (61%).
>You have to keep in mind that the label under the picture of the Vette on
>page 106 (looks good in red, doesn't it? Would look good in my driveway,
>too...) refers only to that category -- cars over $35,000. For instance,
>the Z3 has the same "best resale" label on page 104, but for cars priced
>$25,000-$35,000.
hmm.. Great resale value eh? There are 3 silver '96 Sebring Corvettes
at Abraham Cheverolet in Tampa, Florida. One coupe (about $26k) two
roadsters (automatic at $29k and a 6-speed with only 15k miles on it
for $35k that has been there for ages). Kind of nice to know that they
have the limited edition vettes with every option in the book (full
power seats, full climate, etc.) and the glorious LT4 motor. All are
under 25k miles.. How much did these cars cost LAST year? $48-53k?
These are the nice black/red grandsport motors with negligable miles
and arleady selling well below their asking prices. Hell, make an
offer! They are in dire straights to get back out of these things
which practically have grass growing on them. Dare I mention the
'94-95's that are sitting beside them? STILL at very low $20's?
Bentley
Rexven (nolamer...@mindspring.com) said something like:
[Corvette resale figures]
: hmm.. Great resale value eh? There are 3 silver '96 Sebring Corvettes
: at Abraham Cheverolet in Tampa, Florida. One coupe (about $26k) two
: roadsters (automatic at $29k and a 6-speed with only 15k miles on it
: for $35k that has been there for ages).
Rexven! Long time no talk.
OK. I was quoting figures for 98 models. I'm pretty sure Mr. Payne was as
well, although it's hard to tell with him. This new model is in
incredible demand, and thus the price of used ones logically will be very
high.
The 96's you mention are, of course, C4 Vettes. Nice enough cars, but
inferior in pretty much every way to the amazing C5. By 96 they were
well into their design cycle, which tends to drive an auto's resale
figures down. And, this was predicted: Looking at my 1996 issue of
Kiplinger's, the then-current Vette was rated at 57 and 45% for 2 and 4
year depreciation. Above average, but not stellar, roughly equivalent to a
Dodge Intrepid.
The ALG is pretty accurate. Consider them bookmakers: They'll get a model
wrong now and again, but are right more often than wrong. That's how they
stay in business, since banks use their figures to calculate lease prices.
A couple hundred billion dollars a year rests on these figures...