Driving Impressions: Mercedes S500 vs. Lexus Ls400 vs. Acura Legend
Benjamin Lin
Hi All,
For the past month, I've had the opportunity to drive these cars
on a daily basis, so I thought it'd be cool to share my conclusions with
the rec.autos.driving crowd. I know that these three cars aren't really
in the same class, but it made for a good comparison, since most people
who claim that Car A is better than Car B probably base their decisions on
magazine articles, sitting in them at the dealer, or an occasional test
drive, rather than actual driving experience over an extended period of
time. I would have loved to throw in a Cadillac, BMW, or Jaguar, but I
made do with what I had. Here's the specifics on the cars:
1995 Mercedes-Benz S500 Sedan, all factory options installed, except for
ADS (Adaptive Damping System), and individual rear passenger climate
control settings.
5500 miles on the odometer
MSRP w/options, about $95000
5.0 liter DOHC 32 valve V-8, 315 horsepower
4-speed automatic transmission
1991 Lexus LS400, all factory options installed
44500 miles on the odometer
MSRP w/options, about $48000 (in 1991)
4.0 liter DOHC 32 valve V-8, 250 horsepower
4-speed automatic transmission w/lockup torque converter
1992 Acura Legend Coupe LS, all factory options installed
31000 miles on the odometer
This car has been my daily driver for most of the past two years.
MSRP w/options, $37395 (in 1992)
3.2 liter SOHC 24 valve V-6, 200 horsepower
4-speed automatic transmission w/lockup torque converter
Now for the results. For each category, the three are listed from best to
worst. Disclaimer: Results represent my personal opinion. They may
differ from yours. No flames please.
Acceleration:
The S500 is the hands down winner of this one, despite it being the
heaviest and largest car by far. Car and Driver's latest issue clocked a
0-60 of 6.6 seconds, but I haven't personally timed it. I dragged raced an
'86 5.0 liter Mustang from a stoplight the other day, and after I got a
car length on him, he stopped trying. Mercedes uses a shift program that
starts out in second gear, so it doesn't really feel that powerful, unless
you mash the throttle. A really tame car, despite all the horsepower.
When you do dip into the gas on a straitaway, however, it does not feel
like a 4200+ pound car.
The Legend is #2 in acceleration. I've clocked 0-60 in 7.9 seconds with
the A/C on, and one passenger in the car. I suspect that with A/C off and
no passengers, 7.5 or 7.6 is a realistic number. Unlike the other two
cars, you have to be careful when launching this one, because of the front
wheel drive's tendancy to break loose easily. When I first got the car, I
mashed the gas at green, and unneccesary wheelspin caused me to lose
stoplight derbies to the likes of Chevrolet Cavalier Z-24 and Nissan
Sentra SE. Basically, the car stays still for a what seems like an
eternity, and you smell burning rubber. This car is also the only one
without traction control. On a smooth enough road, the front tires will
also break loose on the 1st/2nd shift, accompanied by some torque steer.
The Lexus comes in behind the Legend, even with a V-8, most likely because
of the 400 pounds of extra weight. 0-60 clocked at 8.1 seconds. The most
subdued and docile car of the three at full throttle. Quietist engine at
6000RPM, and you have to be trying in order to feel the transmision shift.
Sometimes all you see is the tach go down, and the engine noise goes down.
0-60 feels like just another Sunday drive.
Handling:
The Legend is best of the three. Minimal body roll, and the stickiest
tires (Michelin XGT V Sport 205/60VR15) of the bunch. Feels tight and
nimble in the corners, and feels like it is in control, rather than being
thrown around. Highest speed on a freeway on ramp loop before the tires
start to squeal (A simulated skidpad, maybe?). Lightest curb weight helps
here.
The Lexus is #2 here. The Air Suspension is set on the "Sport" setting,
although I can't tell much of difference between this setting and normal.
Considerably more body roll than the Legend. Tires squeal easily in tight
corners. (Goodyear Eagle GA 205/65VR15). Once you get past the initial
body roll, the handling in corners is decent for a car of it's size and
weight.
Finally, the S500. Since I don't have the ADS option, I can't say how
much of a difference that will make. Lots of body roll. Big tires
(Michelin MXV4 235/60HR16 hold it to the ground well, but the springs are
just too light. When you drive over speed bumps, you can see the front
end of the car bounce when it comes down. Taking corners fast is pretty
hairy because of the body roll. Driving it fast in the curves feels like
that the car is being thrown around, rather than in complete control.
Lots of dive under even light to moderate braking. The sheer size and
weight of the car hinder the car's handling, not to mention you feel like
you are driving a tank. H rated tires and an electronically limited
130mph top speed (to stay under the tire's limit) are a joke on a car of
this caliber. For $95000, I expect at least V-rated tires, and for 315
horsepower, Z-rated would probably be the proper way to go. What were
they thinking? I guess they had to throw in these sorts of things to
further differentiate an S500 from an S600.
Steering/Pedal/Transmission/Road feel:
Legend: This car is the most responsive of the three. The steering on
this car, while more power assisted than most European cars is not as bad
as most Japanese and American cars. A surprising amount of feedback from
the wheel at any speed. You have a sense of what the tires are doing on
the ground. Great brake pedal and accelerator feel. Transmission is on
the rough side. The least refined transmission of the three. Typical
Honda feel when shifting (crisp, jerky shifts, more pronounced at full
throttle)
Lexus: The main gripe about this car is the "one finger" steering. Power
steering is way overboosted (although I'm told that they fixed this in
'92). Almost no feedback from the steering wheel. Very hard to tell what
the tires are up to or where the limit is. Driver feels isolated from the
road. Accelerator pedal feels mushy compares to other two cars.
Sometimes makes you forget that theres a transmission if you didn't have a
tach. Smooth at any engine speed or RPM.
S500: Again, overboosted power steering. Not the kind of steering feel
you would expect from Mercedes-Benz, or any German automaker, for that
matter. Very hard to get feedback through the wheel, and as with the
Lexus, the driver feels isolated from the road. This, combined with the
soft suspension and lots of body roll, make this car feel like a full size
Cadillac or Lincoln at times in terms of handling (although not as bad).
Brakes feel very mushy. Surprising for a European car. Transmission is
slightly more pronounced than in the Lexus.
Ride Quality/Support:
Legend: Good balance between comfort and performance. Seats are the
best, most supportive, and most performance oriented of the three. Large
side bolsters keep you in place. A sporty feel, but a luxurious ride as
well.
Lexus: Seats aren't as supportive, and shocks are softer than the Legend,
but it makes for a pretty comfortable ride. Good for long distance trips.
Not as sporty of a feel.
S500: Shocks are too soft, and about the same amount of seat support as
the Lexus. Rolls like a boat over bumps. Too "soft" for my tastes. The
Ultra luxury "feeling" of the three.
Quality (Number of problems):
S500: Still to early to tell. No problems yet, although I suspect that
later, of all those cool gadgets, something will break.
Lexus: Impeccable quality. One problem at delivery, headliner loose where
sunroof opens. Fixed on the spot in 5 minutes. No other known problems
throughout the warranty period.
Legend: Consistently plagued by small problems. Goes back to the dealer
for warranty service every three months or so, to get several small things
fixed. Mechanically, no problems though. Warranty runs out in 4000 miles.
I'm probably going to take out an extended warranty, because I've had so
many small problems that are most likely $100-200 each to fix.
Build Quality (How does it feel?):
Lexus: Everything feels "right". The upholstry is high quality, and has
stood up well (daily around town driver w/ two kids). All buttons and
controls feel solid. No rattling, no shaking. Engine & transmission is
smooth. Doors and trunk, however feel kind of light compared to the
Mercedes and the Legend. Everything feels like the day it was new.
S500: Top quality upholstry, no rattling, no shaking, engine and
transmission smooth. The famous Mercedes "feel" in the doors and the
trunk. Some buttons and controls feel cheap and plasticy in your hands.
Because of this, the S500 takes a back seat to the Lexus. As far as
durability, it is still to early to tell. No rattles or shakes.
Legend: Upholstry isn't up to par with Lexus and Mercedes, buttons and
controls are high qualty, with one notable exception: The sound system.
Buttons feel cheap and plasticy on the stereo. trunk lid feels thin, but
the doors are the closest to the Mercedes "feel" that I've ever seen on a
non-Mercedes. Trim is not as high quality as the other two cars, and has
not stood up as well as the Lexus. Minor rattles and shakes on rare
occasions.
Ergonomics:
Legend: Best of the group. I guess thats why Honda is legendary in the
auto business for good ergonomics. Everything is intuitive in placement
and markings. Very easy to figure out and get used to, even without
reading the manual. Stereo and climate control controls are the easiset
to use of the three cars. One gripe, is the placement of the headlight
switch in most Japanese cars. My first car was a Volvo, so maybe I'm used
to the European and American way of putting the lights on the dash, not on
the turn signal stalk. Another gripe is the drink holder in the center
console compartment cover. It flips up when you open the console, so you
have to take the drink out first before you open the console. Also only a
single holder, rather than the double found in most cars.
Lexus: Almost on par with the Legend, except that the stereo and climate
control has more buttons and is a bit harder to figure out. Again, the
headlight switch gripe.
S500: Compared to the other two cars, no comparison. Some controls seem
so randomly placed, you scratch your head looking for them. Symbols and
markings on the buttons are almost cryptic. In order to figure a lot of
them out, I had to read the manual. The fact that this car has so many
gadgets doesn't help either. Big gripe: The German way of placing the
window switches on the center console. The American and Japanese way of
putting them on the door seem a whole lot more intuitive. Several
controls placed out of the way.
Comfort/Luxury/Space:
S500: This car takes a back seat only to a stretch limo: Even with 6
footers sitting in the front seat, theres plenty of room for three more 6
footers in the back. Amazing legroom. Front seats have the most
adjustments of any car I've seen w/ three memory positions for both driver
AND passenger. Heated seats for all passengers except for middle passeger
in rear. Rear bench seat even has power headrests and a power tilt rear
bench. Climate control system includes, in addition to the standard fare:
-A/C vents in back, with the option of seperate controls for both outboard
passengers. -Separate driver/passenger controls for climate control.
-Cold/Hot air switching system for the vents when not using A/C (I haven't
figured this one out yet) -Feature that let you use existing engine heat
for up to 30 minutes to keep the cabin warm even after you shut off the
engine. The A/C gets cold really fast, and so far, it doesn't smell when
you first turn it on, although it's too early to tell if it will later.
Once up to speed, the A/C is as cold as the legendary GM icebox A/C. Huge
trunk. Vanity mirrors for all seating positions except for middle rear.
Individual cigarette lighters for both outboard rear seating positions.
Reading lights for outboard rear seat passengers. Glovebox on the small
side, center console compartment on the small side. Center armrest for
rear seat passengers doubles as a storage compartment and drink holder.
Lexus: Adequete room for five six foot people to fit comfortably.
Passenger seat is only adjustable 4 ways, instead of 8. Climate control
is central control. Vents for back seat passengers. The A/C gets cold
fairly fast, depending on how hot it is outside, but when you first turn
it on, it smells bad. Once up and running, almost as cold as GM.
Impressive A/C for a Japanese car. While no comparison to the S500, this
is still a very comfortable car. Heated from seats. Decent size trunk.
Single cigarette lighter in rear. Reading lights for outboard rear seat
passengers. Huge center console compartment, decent size glovebox.
Legend: Back seat cramped for six footers, don't even think of taking
more than one person in the back if they are over 5' 10". Front seats
have adequate room. Climate control is central control. A/C takes some
time to get cold, and if it's hotter than 90 degrees outside, will never
get really cold. If it's more than 95 degrees or so, then even on max A/C
it will never get to a comfortable level. This could be due to the black
leather interior though. A/C smells when you first turn it on. Passenger
seat is only 4 way adjustable. I suspect the Legend Sedan is more
accomodating for back seat passengers. Heated front seats. Huge trunk.
Decent size glovebox (although it's a weird shape), small center console
compartment.
Sound System/Acoustics:
S500: Bose 10 speaker system is the best I've heard in a stock
configuration. Good response throughout the entire frequency range, and
good sound from any seating position. Double pane windows and sound
insulation make this a pretty quiet car. Quieter than the Legend, but not
so quiet that it's no fun. At full throttle, you get to hear the growl of
the engine. 6 disc Alpine CD changer.
Legend: Bose 4 speaker system sounds so good, that you think theres more
than 4 speakers. Bass is emphasized more than mid and treble. Head Unit
is easiest to use of the three. Sound deadening is adequate, but not so
much that it's no fun anymore. 6 disc Alpine CD changer.
Lexus: Nakamichi 7 speaker system, tends to emphasize mid and treble.
Bass response is not as good as in the other two cars. As a result, it
doesn't sound as good as the name or number of speakers would suggest,
unless you are listening to Jazz and Classical, which is what Nakamichi
figured most LS400 buyers would listen too. The quietest of the three
cars. Too much sound deadening material, in my opinion. Sound insulation
is so heavy, that at freeway speeds, all you hear is minimal wind and tire
noise. Engine sounds like an electric motor at 6000 RPM. Takes some of
the fun out of driving. 6 disc Pioneer CD changer.
Gadgetry:
S500: Hands down winner. Partial list includes:
-A handle that pops out of the trunk when you open it. Retracts when you
close the trunk
-Air filtration system
-Power rear sunshade
-Two pegs that pop up from the edges of the trunk when you put the car in
reverse so you can see exactly where the back of the car is.
-Hydraulic door and trunk suckers that close the doors and trunk if you
don't give it enough muscle.
-Power inside rear view mirror with auto-dim feature.
-Power side mirrors with power fold-in feature for parking in tight spaces
-Automatic heated outside mirrors
-Integrated cellular phone with portable handset and programmable voice
control. Mutes stereo when phone in use. Hands free operation, no need
to hold handset.
-Outside temperature gauge
-Digital Odomete
-MPG meter. Usually hovers around 10 or so in the city, and when you
floor it, it goes to 0.
-Power Windows with auto down and up on all four windows
-Stereo works without the key
Who says only Japanese cars have gadgets?
Lexus:
-Instrument panel made up of dozens of Electroluminescent light bulbs.
Display is completely dark when key is out. When on, looks like a
conventional analog display. Cool feature is that
you can dim it or turn it off. Good for putting backseat drivers in
their place.
-Air suspension with sport mode and load leveling switch
-Manual LCD dimming rear view mirror
Legend: A fairly straitforward car
-Electric Door suckers for doors, but not trunk. Less effort required
than Mercedes to activate door suckers
-Manually activated heated outside mirrors
-Rear windows that open. Very unusual for a hardtop coupe. Notable
exceptions are the Mercedes coupes, and the BMW 8 series.
-Electric motors in the seatbelt anchors that move out of the way when
the door is opened for easier entry to the back seat. Returns to normal
position when door is closed.
Security:
S500: Central locking system with switch on center console. Integrated
horn/lights/starter kill. Once alarm has been tripped, a user defined key
turning sequence (right, left, right, etc.) must be used in order to
reenable the starter. Integrated key/remote control controls central
locking, and has feature for auto close of windows and sunroof, and remote
trunk release. Gripe about key/remote is that it's an infrared system, so
you have to point it in the right place to get it to work, and you can't
put it on your keychain. Anti-theft stereo. Pin-type lock tabs suggest
that it can probaby be slim-jimmed pretty easily, although beyond getting
into the cabin, theres not much a casual thief can do. Special cut key
system with center ridge. LED on stereo.
Lexus: Central locking system with switches on the driver and passenger
outboard armrests. Flip type locks in the side of the door. Probably
difficult to slim jim, special tools and experience probably needed to
open. Integrated key and remote is shaped like a normal key so you can
put it on your key chain. Radio controlled, so you can unlock from any
position, even when the key is in your pocket. Special inverted cut key.
Unlike any you've ever seen. Horn/Lights alarm. Not sure if it has
starter kill or not. LED on instrument panel. Programmable anti-theft
stereo. Switch on dash that lets you disable remote control if you want.
Legend: No remote control. It's a $400 dealer installed option. Better
to go aftermarket. Alarm is activated using key. Horn/Lights. Not sure
if it has started kill. Central locking with switches placed on side of
the door. Lock pins, so probably easy to slim-jim. Shape and placement
of central locking switches make it a no brainer to stick a coat hanger
through the weatherstrip and pull the switch. Bad design in my opinion.
Anyone who has a Honda with factory power locks will know what I'm talking
about. Anti-theft stereo. LEDs on driver door and stereo. Conventional
Honda key. Easily duplicated.
Fuel Economy:
Legend: 18/24 EPA ratings. Actual driving gives 17/26
Lexus: 18/23 EPA. 16/25 actual
S500: 13/17 EPA. Actual still too early to tell on a consistent basis
Dealer Service:
Lexus: The best service I have ever received from a car dealership. Bar
None. Service writers are courteous, patient, and willing to help. Free
loaners provided when your car is in, car wash every time you go in, and a
lot of the time, free fill up of the gas tank. Turnaround time is good
also. Quality of work is excellent.
Mercedes-Benz: Haven't been to the dealer enough to tell, but they are
courteous, and turnaround time is good. Car wash also provided.
Acura: The former champion of customer satisfaction seems to be riding on
it's reputation now. Unhappy with the service at one dealership, I went to
another one, and received pretty much the same treatement. The service
writers were hurried, as if trying to get you off their back, sometimes
showed their impatience, and were generally reluctant to help. Sometimes
I was kept waiting, even when no one else was in line. After
servicing/repair, 90% of the time, the car was not washed, and often
times, was dirtier then when it went in. Once there were droplets of some
chemical all over the interior. Upon complaining, they told me to go
clean it out myself. Loaner cars are not available. Once, after my 30000
mile checkup, it turned out that they put the wrong motor oil weight in my
engine. The factory recommends 5W/30 for the climate in our area. They
put in 10W/30, and upon questioning, I was told that that was all they
stocked, and that it was "better" anyway. To make a long story short, I'm
still searching for a good Acura dealership service department. I wonder
if NSX owners are treated the same way. If any Acura owners out there in
the S.F. Bay Area have suggestions for dealers, send them my way via e-mail.
Price/Performance ratio.
Legend: Of these three cars, most bang for the buck.
Lexus: Mid pack.
S500: Costs more than twice as much as either of the others. Does it
perform twice as good? Not really.
First place rankings = 1 point
Second place rankings = 2 points
Third place rankings = 3 points.
Total taken by adding rankings from all individual categories. Lowest
score is best. Disclaimer: This is meant to be a general overall
ranking. Different tastes will dictate which features are more
important. This is not the absolute word on which is best. No flames,
please. Got it?
S500: 30
Lexus: 30
Legend: 33
Miscellaneous thoughts:
The S500 is an impressive automobile, but it's geared more towards
ultra-luxury. Performance oriented buyers will probably not consider this
car. Handling and feel is the major weakness of this car. Every luxury
feature and comfort known to man, and then some. With a car like this,
it's hard to tell whether the owner is sitting in the drivers seat or in
the back seat. In a class of it's own. You get the most stares and
looks when drivinng this car. A level of prestige that lower cost cars
cannot offer.
The Lexus was an impressive car that sent shock waves through the luxury
car market when it was introduced in 1989. It offered S-class and BMW
7-series luxury and performance at an E- class and 5-series price. Geared
more towards the luxury, rather than performance buyer. Engine feels a
little weak for it's price class, and handling, while better than the S500
is only mid- pack. In today's market, the '91 Lexus is not the star it
once was, mostly due to the $15000 price increase. Excellent quality,
comfort, and service are what put this car ahead of the Legend, and almost
tied it with the S500. With the new model recently introduced, I suspect
that the results might be different. Not a whole lot of prestige, when
comparerd to European automakers, since it was such a good seller. Around
here, seems like half the people on the block have one. Interestingly
enough, theres more Lexuses than Legends driving around this area.
The Legend is a great balance of performance and luxury. It has most of
the luxury features found on more expensive cars, and is one of the few
luxury cars that is small enough to be nimble and fun to drive. Although
I used a coupe to compare, a sedan would probably drive comparably, while
being a lot more comfortable, which may have bettered the Legend's score.
With the introduction of the Legend GS last year, a more formidable Legend
is now available. Again, not a whole lot of prestige.
Bryan Chow
Benjamin Lin <lem...@beauty.ucsb.edu> wrote:
>
>Miscellaneous thoughts:
>
>The S500 is an impressive automobile, but it's geared more towards
>ultra-luxury.
Interestingly, the President of Mercedes himself acknowledged that
the S-class is overengineered and a mistake. The car is not selling
well, and the replacement will be smaller and less gimmicky. There
also will not be an S600, but the top of the line would probably be
a supercharged 5.0L.
>The Lexus was an impressive car that sent shock waves through the luxury
>car market when it was introduced in 1989.
The Lexus LS400 doesn't really appeal to me, but I'm not their target
customer. I'd say it's the best car in its class for older folks.
Interestingly, it won yet ANOTHER comparo. This time with the Jaguar
XJ6 and BMW 740i in Motortrend.
--
Bryan Chow California Institute of Technology [ SCP Lab ]
br...@scp.caltech.edu / Home: http://www.scp.caltech.edu/~bryan/
World Wide Web -- Roxy Music: http://www.scp.caltech.edu/~bryan/roxy/
(818) 395-3903 \ Autos: http://www.scp.caltech.edu/~bryan/autos/
Ryan Rahim
: Benjamin Lin <lem...@beauty.ucsb.edu> wrote:
: >
: >The S500 is an impressive automobile, but it's geared more towards
: >ultra-luxury.
: Interestingly, the President of Mercedes himself acknowledged that
: the S-class is overengineered and a mistake. The car is not selling
: well, and the replacement will be smaller and less gimmicky. There
: also will not be an S600, but the top of the line would probably be
: a supercharged 5.0L.
True, but unlike BMW, a mistake on a Mercedes automobile is not regarded as
dire as only 18% of Mercedes Benz AG's business is their automotive division.
: >The Lexus was an impressive car that sent shock waves through the luxury
: >car market when it was introduced in 1989.
: The Lexus LS400 doesn't really appeal to me, but I'm not their target
: customer.
You're not the target customer of any large European/Japanese luxury
sedan because:
1) You're to young
2) You're to young
3) You're to young
: I'd say it's the best car in its class for older folks.
That's your opinion, but I disagree. IMO the E-Class and the 740i are
superior. Why do you think the Lexus is the "best car for the older folk?"
: Interestingly, it won yet ANOTHER comparo. This time with the Jaguar
: XJ6 and BMW 740i in Motortrend.
Toyota has been marketing the Lexus very very strongly. According to ex
BMW chairman Eberhard Von Kuenheim, the Lexus project hasn't even begun
to turn a profit yet. Toyota can easily afford a loss on Lexus' part as
it has enjoyed steady profits for decades and is the 2nd largest
automaker in the world.
I wouldn't be surprised if the magazine was somehow "influenced."
The only thing outstanding I find that the LS400 offers, is fuel economy
for its performance.
But if you can afford an expensive luxury car, fuel economy is secondary.
Ryan
I've driven the new 7 and was disappointed at the way the "New
Generation" BMWs are under the new chairperson. Firstly, I'm quite
pissed off at this guy for totalling a Mclaren F1.
The new 7 has lost its roots of being a luxury car with the fundamental
German
fun to drive aspects like a feel of the road, a stiff steering wheel.
The new suspension dips and dives when you hit the brakes, and they've
sacrificed all stiffness in steering for a stiff turn in the ignition key
to get it started. The steering now feels like an overboosted Audi
servotronic one.
I do like BMWs new environmental philosophy of recycling cars once
they're dead.
Didn't this new BMW chairman promise that by a certain year (I forget)
all its cars will achieve 10.5L/100 km or better fuel economy?
Why do I see them sacrificing performance next?
Ryan
: --
Scott Kirkham
>Bryan Chow (br...@navajo.scp.caltech.edu) wrote:
>: Benjamin Lin <lem...@beauty.ucsb.edu> wrote:
>
>: >car market when it was introduced in 1989.
>
>: customer.
>
>You're not the target customer of any large European/Japanese luxury
>sedan because:
>
>1) You're to young
>2) You're to young
>3) You're to young
That's too, and you would be surprised at who they target for their
sales.
>: I'd say it's the best car in its class for older folks.
>
>That's your opinion, but I disagree. IMO the E-Class and the 740i are
>superior. Why do you think the Lexus is the "best car for the older folk?"
That's your opinion, and I disagree. My mother and father-in-law have
had big BMWs and Mercedes, as well as a Rolls Royce and most large
American cars. They now both have Lexus LS400s and plan to keep it that
way. They swore they would never drive Japanese cars, but they drove
the Lexus and they were convinced. What do you mean "best car for the
older folk?" My father-in-law loves to go fast, drive sportily, etc...
He just likes to do it in the lap of luxury.
>: Interestingly, it won yet ANOTHER comparo. This time with the Jaguar
>: XJ6 and BMW 740i in Motortrend.
>
>Toyota has been marketing the Lexus very very strongly. According to ex
>BMW chairman Eberhard Von Kuenheim, the Lexus project hasn't even begun
>to turn a profit yet. Toyota can easily afford a loss on Lexus' part as
>it has enjoyed steady profits for decades and is the 2nd largest
>automaker in the world.
>
>I wouldn't be surprised if the magazine was somehow "influenced."
ROTFLMFAO. Oh, give me a break, Ryan. Influenced? Come on. You've got
to be kidding!
>The only thing outstanding I find that the LS400 offers, is fuel economy
>for its performance.
And that baby will haul ass to Charleston on one tank of gas (400
miles), and I don't even have to get out and stretch. I still have
enough energy when I get to the beach house to go for a long walk in
the sand. Couldn't do that after a drive in my wife's BMW.
>But if you can afford an expensive luxury car, fuel economy is secondary.
Of course, but if you can save money on the car and the gas, that gives
you even more money to play with while you travel the country in your
VERY comfortable Lexus LS400.
Kirkham
Ryan Rahim
: rah...@unixg.ubc.ca (Ryan Rahim) wrote:
: >Bryan Chow (br...@navajo.scp.caltech.edu) wrote:
: >: Benjamin Lin <lem...@beauty.ucsb.edu> wrote:
: >
: >: I'd say it's the best car in its class for older folks.
: >
: >That's your opinion, but I disagree. IMO the E-Class and the 740i are
: >superior. Why do you think the Lexus is the "best car for the older folk?"
: That's your opinion, and I disagree. My mother and father-in-law have
: had big BMWs and Mercedes, as well as a Rolls Royce and most large
: American cars. They now both have Lexus LS400s and plan to keep it that
: way. They swore they would never drive Japanese cars, but they drove
: the Lexus and they were convinced. What do you mean "best car for the
: older folk?" My father-in-law loves to go fast, drive sportily, etc...
: He just likes to do it in the lap of luxury.
The LS400's philosophy believes that the driver is not part of the
equation. If his consumer taste was large American cars, then yes, the
Lexus would seem to be a great car. However, for the enthusiast who
enjoys the driving characteristics of a BMW, driving a Lexus is simply
out of the question. The Lexus does everything well, but it lacks character.
: >: Interestingly, it won yet ANOTHER comparo. This time with the Jaguar
: >: XJ6 and BMW 740i in Motortrend.
: >
: >Toyota has been marketing the Lexus very very strongly. According to ex
: >BMW chairman Eberhard Von Kuenheim, the Lexus project hasn't even begun
: >to turn a profit yet. Toyota can easily afford a loss on Lexus' part as
: >it has enjoyed steady profits for decades and is the 2nd largest
: >automaker in the world.
: >
: >I wouldn't be surprised if the magazine was somehow "influenced."
: ROTFLMFAO.
Whatever that means.
Oh, give me a break, Ryan. Influenced? Come on. You've got
: to be kidding!
You believe auto journalists to be unbiased? They're the most corrupt in
the journalist industry. How can a reviewer expect to be unbiased when
the car manufacturer pays for his meals, expenses, and entertainment at
exotic locales, not to mention providing free loaner cars at home. Its just
like a journalist who writes about Clinton's presidency, while being under
Clinton's payroll.
: >The only thing outstanding I find that the LS400 offers, is fuel economy
: >for its performance.
: And that baby will haul ass to Charleston on one tank of gas (400
: miles), and I don't even have to get out and stretch. I still have
: enough energy when I get to the beach house to go for a long walk in
: the sand. Couldn't do that after a drive in my wife's BMW.
Oh please. And what BMW was this? Lexus' are good to sleep in, because
they're so quiet and smooth. BMW has been said to have among the best
seats in the industry. I used to have a 7-Series, and it was very
comfortable for long trips.
: >But if you can afford an expensive luxury car, fuel economy is secondary.
: Of course, but if you can save money on the car and the gas, that gives
: you even more money to play with while you travel the country in your
: VERY comfortable Lexus LS400.
To each his own, I guess.
Ryan
: Kirkham