Neumann M147...Greatest vocal mic ever?
Peter Jensen
you paid for, and that within each price bracket the items available were
more or less interchangable, with some things having a slightly audible
advantage which you could start to hear only after a fair amount of critical
listening. It wasn't as easy as "Like Night and Day" anymore. You had to
listen really close to tell, even between price brackets.
One of my goals for AES was finding a microphone that would be worth saving
up for as the crown jewel of my collection; which I would send the vocals
through. The show had no shortage of them; seems everyone has their own
version of a large diapraghm condenser for sale. Some were utterly awful
like the Shure. Most were so-so.
But one stood out like a beacon upon first hearing it. I mean, this wasn't
something you strained to hear the merits of. This was something that
grabbed you by the balls and said "I'm here". Instantly. I have never
heard the human voice sound as good. The Neumann M147.
I know I sound like an ad...but I can't help it! I have been blown away!!!
Neumann had its core line on a little podium with Senn HD-265's to listen to
them all...the guy said they were going through an extremely simple preamp
he referred to as a "headphone amp". Even the expensive M149 was there. I
listened to all of them on my and other people's voices. They were pretty
much all price/performance...except I thought the TLM-103 was a little
better value than the U87. But the M147 just stood out from the group
completely. It had an utterly different sound. And an utterly flattering
one to the voice. Way better than the $4800 M149, although that might be
nice on sopranos. And when it arrives in January, it will cost only $2000.
To say this is worth two TLM-103's is an understatement. For voice at
least, it's worth about ten of them. You would need a very high end preamp
to make a TLM-103 or even a U87 sound anything like what I heard...and
having done so, it wouldn't be as good. I spoke with AUTHORITY through this
thing...big, fat, lovely voice sound...made everyone sound fantastic. It
didn't have the presence boost the others did that made people sound harsh
scratchy and nasal. It has glorious low end with lots of tube. It has
virtually no noise (<13dbA) and is a transformerless tube mic like the M149.
Roughly the size of the TLM-103 and containing the real K47 capsule and
grille from the U47. Fixed cardioid/slightly hypercardioid pattern perfect
for voice.
Neumann is going to sell these by the metric tonne.
BTW, there was one other mic that gave me a similar experience yesterday. A
vintage RCA 44 in great shape. I sang "White Xmas" through it and lots of
things became clear how Bing got that impossible low end tone. I would like
both mics now, but the M147 is what I think I'm going to save my pennies
for. For voice at least, you can have all the other large diaphragm
condensers out there with my blessing.
Cheers
Peter
EnsnareYou
I'ts hard for me to believe that Neumann would (or could for that matter)
manufacture a mic that costs less than half of the M149, uses a similar
electronic design, and have it sound better. One thing Pete's post did is make
me want to hear this mic. When I hit AES the first booth I'm headed for is
Neumann. Personally I've yet to hear any new Neumann mic match the sound of
any old well kept vintage mics... U47, M49, Elam 251, C12. If Neumann has even
come close for $2k list, I commend them. In my experience with numerous $2k-3K
priced mics, only the Lawson L47 and Empyrean mics seemed worthy of me owning.
Most recently I found the Audio Technica AT4060 to be quite nice for the
money. If the proliferation of new $800-$1500 tube mics coming out (seems
everyone has a new tube mic) are even close to the AT4060's build quality, let
alone Neumann and AKG quality, I'll be shocked. Something tells me few of
these new mics will be of even reasonable quality or sound. Most often if it's
going to sound great, it's not going to be cheap.
Sdd17
hello Lee,
The soundelux u95 is pretty cool.
Hope all is well.
Steve D
Gary Hobish
>But one stood out like a beacon upon first hearing it. I mean, this wasn't
>something you strained to hear the merits of. This was something that
>grabbed you by the balls and said "I'm here". Instantly. I have never
>heard the human voice sound as good. The Neumann M147.
>
Although I hate "me, too" posts, I have to say I heard this demo, and at least under those conditions, I must agree. This mic was head and shoulders above anything else on the table (on my voice, anyway.)
--
http://www.wenet.net/~ghobish
"Because all you of Earth are idiots! Stupid! Stupid!"
-- Eros, "Plan Nine From Outer Space"
Lyle Caldwell
very subject (sorry I had to break it off, Peter, but planes keep their own
schedule).
While I really liked the M147, I preferred the Lawson *on my voice.* Peter
found the Lawson sibilant on his voice, while I found the M147 a little
bassy on me.
But I have a deeper voice than Peter, so all is right with the universe.
I posted this because it's easy to forget how subjective these things are.
I guess if I *had* to use an M147 on a session, I could stomach it... : )
--
Lyle
The RAP CD in Blue website
is at http://www.hoohahrecords.com/rap/
Peter Jensen wrote in message <6ultg3$f...@masters0.InterNex.Net>...
>I had thought that technology had pretty much evened out, that you got what
>you paid for, and that within each price bracket the items available were
>more or less interchangable, with some things having a slightly audible
>advantage which you could start to hear only after a fair amount of
critical
>listening. It wasn't as easy as "Like Night and Day" anymore. You had to
>listen really close to tell, even between price brackets.
>
>One of my goals for AES was finding a microphone that would be worth saving
>up for as the crown jewel of my collection; which I would send the vocals
>through. The show had no shortage of them; seems everyone has their own
>version of a large diapraghm condenser for sale. Some were utterly awful
>like the Shure. Most were so-so.
>
>But one stood out like a beacon upon first hearing it. I mean, this wasn't
>something you strained to hear the merits of. This was something that
>grabbed you by the balls and said "I'm here". Instantly. I have never
>heard the human voice sound as good. The Neumann M147.
>
Peter Jensen
A few more points...the Lawson was through Sony cans, whilst the Neumann
through Senn 265's which I vastly prefer...The Lawson was also through his
preamp, and on the side wall of the hall, rather than toward the middle. A
good A/B this was not. However, I could hear the polar pattern change
pretty clearly on the Lawson. In general, I was very, very impressed with
the Lawson...I can't imagine a better single mic for acoustic guitar and
lots of other applications...I imagine two in stereo would be a true
marvel...
However as Lyle reported I found my voice too sibiliant through the Lawson.
I'm not usually sibiliant with other mics, but the clear high end of both
L47's brought it out, especially in the figure-8 pattern. At the dinner
Marvin told me the L47 brings up both bass and treble response when put into
figure-8, so maybe when I was getting the bass I like on my voice I was also
getting too much treble...Hmmm...
Listening to the M147 a second day was still great but I started to hear
some of the benefits of the M149...still, the M147 blew away the U87,
TLM-103, etc... And I still liked the M147 better than the M149 on the
voices I heard. I asked Karl Winkler about the price disparity and he said
the complexity of the multiple patterns were what did it. Dirk Brauner
corrected another impression I got...apparently the K47 capsule was not used
in the U47...that was the M7 capsule...this is a new capsule derivative of
it. I should say that I haven't heard many of the historic vintage mikes so
my subject line is a bit over the top, but that's how I felt at the time.
=)
The M147 seems like a can't miss vocal mike for me at least...and since it
is so warm and huge sounding without irritating highs I don't think it would
need much degrading post-processing. In fact, I think putting it through my
Peavey might be tube overkill, and maybe just running it through a Symetrix
302 straight to tape would be enough. The other mics would benefit a lot
more from fatter preamps. Since the M147 has only 12 db of self noise, a
clean solid state pre will allow extensive dynamic range before the noise
floor becomes a problem...so I can really play with massive compression
downstream if I want to.
I would like to have a lot of these mikes to try in different situations for
different effects but a lot of what I do is just getting faith in my stuff
and making it as easy as possible to get good tracks down. Tilting an M147
at someone and saying "here, sing!" will produce smiles probably the vast
majority of the time. The L47 might be even better on certain voices
singing certain parts, and is more adjustable and versatile for the same
money. Either one would make me very happy but since my own singing is a
major factor in my purchase I think it's gonna be the M147.
Cheers,
Peter
Lyle Caldwell wrote in message ...
Peter Jensen
capsule all the cheapie large diapraghm condensers are using and surrounds
it with a bit better electronics.
Could just be anecdotal, but a guy from a big studio came up when I was
testing them and told the poor salesman that they were very unhappy with
them and wanted to get rid of them.
Cheers
Peter
Sdd17 wrote in message <19980928114111...@ng-cr1.aol.com>...
Ty Ford
the U95, not the M 147 indicated in the subject line, right?
Regards,
Ty Ford
In Article <6up2f2$g...@masters0.InterNex.Net>, "Peter Jensen"
Ty's commercial and narration demos are available at
http://www.jaguNET.com/~tford. He has also just uploaded an upgraded list of
copyrighted mic/mic preamp reviews and a new list of production music and SFX
libraries.
Peter Jensen
makes its own capsules. Soundelux apparently doesn't have this luxury.
Just what I heard, you will have to confirm with your own ears.
Ty Ford wrote in message ...
>Just so we're all on the same page here. The mic you're unimpressed with is
>the U95, not the M 147 indicated in the subject line, right?
>
>In Article <6up2f2$g...@masters0.InterNex.Net>, "Peter Jensen"
><pe...@nospam.peppertree.com> wrote:
>>I tried this and was not impressed...I heard it uses the same Chinese
>>capsule all the cheapie large diapraghm condensers are using and surrounds
>>it with a bit better electronics.
>>
>>Could just be anecdotal, but a guy from a big studio came up when I was
>>testing them and told the poor salesman that they were very unhappy with
>>them and wanted to get rid of them.
>>Sdd17 wrote in message <19980928114111...@ng-cr1.aol.com>...
Eleven Shadows
> m147 and absolutely hated it, I took a 500.00 hickey just to get rid
> of it.
??? I didn't think this was even shipping until January! Or did I miss
something in your post?--
Ken/Eleven Shadows
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eleven Shadows * ES songs on Real Audio * Music Reviews * Travels:
Peru-Ladakh-Kashmir-India-HK * Tibet * Real Audio Radio Shows
http://www.theeleventhhour.com/elevenshadows
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Rivers
> BTW, there was one other mic that gave me a similar experience yesterday. A
> vintage RCA 44 in great shape.
Was that the one in the Royer/Speiden booth along with their own mics?
If you like that sound and can afford $2K, you might have a difficult
choice. AEA (also at the show, but easy to miss if you don't look in
corners) is about to start selling a modern reproduction of the 44 for
$2K. And Wes Dooley has used and sold a lot of 44's, so he knows what
the best ones sound like and that's what he's using as a target for the
new ones he's building.
------------
I'm really mri...@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) On the road.
Somewhere east of Lost Angeles and west of the moon
Fletcher
> >
> Boy we must be from different planets , I bought a brand new Neuman
> m147 and absolutely hated it, I took a 500.00 hickey just to get rid
> eq when cutting, and Ive got everything from an AMS Soundfield 5 to
> Manley Gold Reference running thru Neve vr or older mic pres, I
> absolutely love the soundelux, I guess thats why they make both fords
> and chevys, huh Mike Taylor Plano Texas
And speaking of different planets...how did you get your hands on a 147?
Seeing as they won't be deliverable for months, that there's only one in
the country, and it's on the Neumann stand at AES, me thinks you may be
confused as to the model you didn't like.
In all probability, if you took a $500 hit on selling it, it was a
149...which if it were, I think you didn't spend enough time with it. I
too at first was pretty underwhelmed by the 149, but the more I played
with it, the more I'm digging it.
I can't wait to try the U-95S...the U-95 is pretty cool, the U-195 is
already one of the classics in the personal collection...David's a
really good designer!!
--
Fletcher
Mercenary Audio
TEL: 508-543-0069
FAX: 508-543-9670
http://www.mercenary.com
Nick Delonas
on how it compares with the U 87?
--
Nick Delonas
Cult V
http://www.cultv.com
Fletcher wrote in message <361224...@mercenary.com>...
Ken Floyd
: Boy we must be from different planets , I bought a brand new Neuman
: m147 and absolutely hated it, I took a 500.00 hickey just to get rid
: of it. The Soundelux is the ONLY mic in my whole stable that I don,t
: eq when cutting, and Ive got everything from an AMS Soundfield 5 to
: Manley Gold Reference running thru Neve vr or older mic pres, I
: absolutely love the soundelux, I guess thats why they make both fords
: and chevys, huh Mike Taylor Plano Texas
Yes, and your planet must be ahead of ours in the time dimension. This
mic isn't even shipping yet.
--
Ken Floyd
Livermore, Colorado
kbf(at)fc.hp.com (you know what to replace the "(at)" with)
Just my opinions, not those of my employer.
"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics; then there is Bill Clinton."
hank alrich
> In article <6ultg3$f...@masters0.InterNex.Net> pe...@nospam.peppertree.com
>writes:
>
> > BTW, there was one other mic that gave me a similar experience yesterday. A
> > vintage RCA 44 in great shape.
>
> Was that the one in the Royer/Speiden booth along with their own mics?
> If you like that sound and can afford $2K, you might have a difficult
> choice. AEA (also at the show, but easy to miss if you don't look in
> corners) is about to start selling a modern reproduction of the 44 for
> $2K. And Wes Dooley has used and sold a lot of 44's, so he knows what
> the best ones sound like and that's what he's using as a target for the
> new ones he's building.
If it _was_ the RCA in the Royer booth, I say I found that mic quite
muddy compared to the Royer ribbon right next to it, both on my voice
and on Rafael's guitar. Personally, I'd take the Royer over the RCA
immediately.
--
hank alrich
secret__mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"
Mike Rivers
In article <41D826706510D298.C8912FEE524A7B4F.A2F manna-...@airmail.net writes:
> Boy we must be from different planets , I bought a brand new Neuman
> m147 and absolutely hated it
Perhaps we're in different time spaces. You didn't buy an M147 here
because they're not selling any yet. This is a brand new mic that
Neumann introduced at the show and they didn't even have any literature
on it (or it was all scarfed up by the time I got around to the booth).
It's the same capsule design as the U47, in one of their more modern
cases (can't recall what else uses that case, or nearly that case) with
transformerless tube electronics.
Maybe it was an M149 you had. Lots of people think that's the next
thing to gold vocal cords, but that's as good a reason for others not to
like it.
Eleven Shadows
> because they're not selling any yet. This is a brand new mic that
> Neumann introduced at the show and they didn't even have any literature
> on it (or it was all scarfed up by the time I got around to the booth).
They just had a press release, but no fancy color brochures. Release date is January,
according to Karl Winkler.--
Richard Haile
> While I really liked the M147, I preferred the Lawson *on my voice.* Peter
> found the Lawson sibilant on his voice, while I found the M147 a little
> bassy on me.
> But I have a deeper voice than Peter, so all is right with the universe.
My impression of the M147 was very like Lyle's. The M147 is definately a
Neumann: articulate and smooth, but rather thick in the lower mid-range
and upper bass. This is fine (or even great) for thin or dry voices
working
close up or when used at fair distances from warmer, thicker voices. It
does not, like most Neumann's work that well up close on warm-toned male
voices.
(I think the Manley Gold is much more neutral up close, due to its less
dramatic proximity effect.)
RLHaile
Db...@soundelux.com
"Peter Jensen" <pe...@nospam.peppertree.com> wrote:
> Correct. I started the thread with the glowing review of the M147. Neumann
> makes its own capsules. Soundelux apparently doesn't have this luxury.
> Just what I heard, you will have to confirm with your own ears.
>
> Ty Ford wrote in message ...
> >Just so we're all on the same page here. The mic you're unimpressed with is
> >the U95, not the M 147 indicated in the subject line, right?
> >
> >In Article <6up2f2$g...@masters0.InterNex.Net>, "Peter Jensen"
> ><pe...@nospam.peppertree.com> wrote:
> >>I tried this and was not impressed...I heard it uses the same Chinese
> >>capsule all the cheapie large diapraghm condensers are using and surrounds
> >>it with a bit better electronics.
I know it makes life more complicated, but, please, watch your
generalizations and stereotypes. The elves working in that Chinese factory
are imported from Bravaria, Germany and Switzerland (and the'ry still pissed
Hitler lost). If you didn't know that the capsules we source in China are
different than the ones used in other cheaper mics, consider yourself now
duly informed. Remember, China's a big place and the factory that does
exclusive custom work for us doesn't do it for others. Then there are other
aspects of production which are controlled here, again differentiating our
capsules. Don't dis it 'till you've got ALL the data.
> >>Could just be anecdotal, but a guy from a big studio came up when I was
> >>testing them and told the poor salesman that they were very unhappy with
> >>them and wanted to get rid of them.
I might not be rich but I am not poor either, and nor is it a problem for me
to deal with my customers. The conversation which you heard just enough of to
misinterpret, has a happy ending, (and they never wanted to get rid of the
mics, either).
>
> >>Sdd17 wrote in message <19980928114111...@ng-cr1.aol.com>...
> >>>
> >>>hello Lee,
> >>>
> >>>The soundelux u95 is pretty cool.
> >>>
>
>
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> >found the Lawson sibilant on his voice, while I found the M147 a little
> >bassy on me.
> >But I have a deeper voice than Peter, so all is right with the universe.
> >I guess if I *had* to use an M147 on a session, I could stomach it... : )
>
>
A few weeks ago, while everyone headed west for AES, I headed east to Neumann
GmbH (Berlin) and had a chance to examine the M147 first hand, "in my
opinion" it's a winner.
As far as its sound, it has a little more pull or "oomph" in the bottom and
is also not quite as "edgy" in the upper frequencies as the M149, yet it's
noticeably warmer and more detailed than the TLM103. I think it's actually a
nice in between the two.
By design, I was surprised to see how little there was to the 147, almost
like the board of the 103 w/ a valve - but then look inside the 149 and talk
about a lot of empty space. Because the 147 uses the same valve and power
scheme, either the 149 or 147 can be used by the same power supplies.
Interestingly, the 147 is seemingly omni in the low's, somewhat cardioid in
the mids and considerably directional in the upper frequencies. With that
said though, the mic does have a nice thick, warm sound with the tight bottom
Neumann is known for. Oh yeah, it's VERY quiet!
As is said on this news group daily, as far as it being the mic for you -
depends on you. I think that it makes a perfect compliment to any Neumann/mic
collection and is not redundant to the TLM103 or especially the M149. For
those about to ask how it compares to the U87 ... different animal. I've
already put in my order, it's a great mic.
--
Donald James
Donald James Productions
New York, NY.
http://www.voice-overs.net