Telefunken USA ELAM 251 vs. Soundelux ELUX 251!!!!?????
Kris Singh
ELUX 251???? With the rave reviews the $3,500.00 ELUX seems to get,
I'd like to see how it fares against the $10,125.00 ELAM 251 by
Telefunken USA. They are both going after the same animal. With the
difference of almost 7k, I am really interested in the shootout. Has
anyone done it????? I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR THE REESULTS!!! Hopefully
we can get some unbiased blindfold testing. So....... anyone????
Thanks-Kris
Kris Singh
Chad Clark
truly excellent. I work largely in indie-rock (think Tape Op
magazine, not Mix or EQ) where the budgets are lower (but the art is
higher! ha!) so I could not afford to buy it.
I recorded a female vocalist with it and the sound was tingly and
sexy. Vivid and present. I felt that it was a different sounding
mic than the elux251, with a different mid-range character, a
different tilt. But I think the Elux251 is a great mic as well.
It's true that the price difference is comical --- you could buy an
Elux251 and a Manley SLAM! with almost the same dough and I imagine
you'd be ahead there. And no, I don't think that there is a dramatic
qualitative difference between the TelefunkenUSA and the Soundelux;
both give you the feeling that you are working with a fine handcrafted
tool.
I think that clearly the TelefunkenUSA market is defined by its price:
the proverbial People Who Don't Have To Ask How Much It Costs. People
like famous producers, top-level commercial studios, and wealthy
collectors. People for whom exacting detail is more important than
anything else.
It should be noted that I have never experienced an actual vintage
ELAM 251 in my life, so I'm far from an expert..
You should also include the Lawson L251 in this mix, I think. That is
going to be the mic that I buy. I love the 251 terrain --- I love
the airy, etched quality --- but in my line of work, I simply cannot
justify the dough for the TelefunkenUSA model, no matter how lovely
and striking it is sonically. (And it IS lovely and striking.)
That's my 2 cents on the topic.
--- c
myname...@hotmail.com (Kris Singh) wrote in message news:<29ca82c9.03041...@posting.google.com>...
Lynn Fuston
> news:<29ca82c9.03041...@posting.google.com>...
>> Has anyone compared the new Telefunken Elam 251 against the Soundelux
>> ELUX 251???? With the rave reviews the $3,500.00 ELUX seems to get,
>> I'd like to see how it fares against the $10,125.00 ELAM 251 by
>> Telefunken USA. They are both going after the same animal. With the
>> difference of almost 7k, I am really interested in the shootout. Has
>> anyone done it????? I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR THE REESULTS!!! Hopefully
>> we can get some unbiased blindfold testing. So....... anyone????
All of the 251 clones (except the Telefunken USA) and a vintage 251 are
recorded side by side on the 3D Mic CD.
Lynn Fuston
3D Audio Inc
Music Mixing and Mastering
on a scenic hilltop overlooking historic
Franklin, Tennessee
Home of the 3dB Recording Forum
http://www.3daudioinc.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi
Kris Singh
due to the price tag???? When you used the elux, what did you use it
on??? Was it the same singer??? I am interested in hearing more about
what struck you as having "more detail" and if they sound like they
were in the same ballpark? I am thinking of picking up either (3)
Elux 251s or (1) Telefunken ELAM 251. I am leaning towards the elux
for obvious reasons. Being able to do the decca tree thing has always
been appealing to me as well.
I have heard the Lawson and it is definitly very impressive.
Good luck!!! I do have a friend who has the Lawson and he loves it.
Now you have me wondering about that mic more. I DIDN'T EVEN THINK OF
IT!!! If you have used it, how does it fare against the others???
You are the authority on this one. The real one is irrelevent. It is
actually better that you can judge them all against each other and not
the 20k original. I want something new anyway.
Ohhh, a note for you......... I personnally do not like the color of
the Lawson. Good news is.... I know you can contact them and get it in
a more silver color that looks a hell of a lot better. Just something
you should know before buying. Thanks again!!!!-Kris
ch...@beautypill.com (Chad Clark) wrote in message news:<b8ad7fc0.03041...@posting.google.com>...
David Bock
> All of the 251 clones (except the Telefunken USA) and a vintage 251 are
> recorded side by side on the 3D Mic CD.
Lynn,
Please do not refer people to the shootout CD as a current refernce of
the ELUX 251. You CD has one of the first 10 mics produced, and
serious changes were m,ade from #11 onwards, and another change after
#50. So the CD has not represented what the customer will purchase for
over two years now.
If someone wants to know what an ELUX 251 sounds like, I would refer
them to one of our authorized dealers who will be happy to assist.
Thanks
David Bock
Soundelux Microphones
Bob Olhsson
Bock <db...@soundelux.com> wrote:
>...
>serious changes were m,ade from #11 onwards, and another change after
>#50. So the CD has not represented what the customer will purchase for
>over two years now.
If the first 50 required "serious changes," did the company replace all
of those customers' microphones? Is anybody who needs to punch a line
into a vocal made with one of the first 50 mikes screwed unless they
can get that particular microphone?
Whatever happened to manufacturers building reasonably consistent
microphones when they are given the same model number? I'm sorry to
bring this embarrassing issue up but most of us want to know exactly
what to expect when we reach for a particular microphone.
--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery Recording Project Design and Consulting
Box 90412, Nashville TN 37209 Tracking, Mixing, Mastering, Audio for Picture
615.385.8051 FAX: 615.385.8196 Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
40 years of making people sound better than they ever imagined!
Michael Angel
>bring this embarrassing issue up but most of us want to know exactly
>what to expect when we reach for a particular microphone.
Especially one that is advertised as the best version of a top of the line
classic that costs a small fortune.
It's always in the text books that one should expect every mic in the high
lines to be nearly perfectly matched.
Now it's even moreso true since people are basically and evenly satisfied with
results from less expensive designs that follow the pattern of their more
expensive equivalents, understanding that the draw back to 'great sound modeled
after ___ at a reasonable price' means no two will be precisely identical.
Michael Angel
Mange...@aol.com
Angel Lofte Studio, Atlanta
32 Bit CD Mastering
Kris Singh
testing I am looking for. I want to hear them all now that the
Telefunken has released the 251. I want to know if it is reaally that
much more detailed or if it is just name and hype. How far off are
the others??? Which has the biggest sound??? I was going to get (3)
matched Elux 251s, but if the Telefunken 251 is far superior then I
would perfer just one of that instead. I want to get past the name
and the coolness of it and get down to the sound. I want whats best.
Anyone have the answers????? Thanks-Kris Singh
Lynn Fuston <3da...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<BABCF836.1095E%3da...@comcast.net>...
David Bock
>
> If the first 50 required "serious changes," did the company replace all
> of those customers' microphones?
reword my post?
Changes were made from #11. Those owners requesting updating recieved
it. Those owners who were completely content never requested it.
Any #11 to #50 owner requesting updating also recieved it.
This was not a recall due to any product inadequacies, but a tonal
change.
We reserve the right to make changes in any of our products whenever
we find an opportunity for improvement.
Is anybody who needs to punch a line
> into a vocal made with one of the first 50 mikes screwed unless they
> can get that particular microphone?
Don't worry they'll just use the mic modeler to fix it.
> Whatever happened to manufacturers building reasonably consistent
> microphones when they are given the same model number? I'm sorry to
> bring this embarrassing issue up but most of us want to know exactly
> what to expect when we reach for a particular microphone.
What's embarrassing? If someone didn't like ELUX sn#2 they wouldn't
buy it.
If they like sn #150 they would.
I'm not sure what your problem really is here, Bob.
Regards,
David Bock
Mark Stebbeds
wrote:
>All of the 251 clones (except the Telefunken USA) and a vintage 251 are
>recorded side by side on the 3D Mic CD.
The Telefunken USA version is the ONLY one that comes close, in my
humble opinion.
Mark
Kris Singh
I bought sn#3 and ordered it before most people even knew you were
making it. I took delivery and it was defective. I really liked it
up close, but the sound went away at a distance. I sent it back. You
fixed it and sent it back. It had a different problem, this time it
was the power supply. I decided to wait and let you get it together
and see what happens. Well, time has passed, and you seem to have
gotten this mic down pretty well(so I hear). I am interested in
buying (3) of them and I have questions for you. I have left you (2)
phone messages over the past week. I have not received a call back.
I don't know if you have access to your phone, but since I see you
have gotten to this post, please give me a ring. 609-346-1618. I am
either buying (3) of your Elux, (3) of your new E47 or (3) of the
Lawson.
Please answer the following so I can get a better sense of the state
of the Elux.
1. Is it true that some of the Elux mics have different components
then others?
If so, are all the ones being produced now the same
2. I have heard a few people tell me you are using cheap parts made in
China. What "parts" are they referring to, and why did you select
those parts?
3. What tube can I expect in these Elux mics? Is the AC 701 an
option?
4. Are there going to be any more changes in the Elux anytime soon?
5. How would you describe the sonic differences between your Elux and
your new E47 mic??? Which would generally excell above with the male
voice?
6. Should we expect any changes in the E47 from the initial run?
7. Are there any "Chinese" parts in the E 47? Please describe the
build and parts quality? What tube and what capsule does it use???
Is it more of a kk47 or the M7 sound??
I also do not understand what you meant by "don't worry they'll just
use the mic modeler to fix it" Was that a joke??? Do really mean to
say that people should require mic modeler(which is a antares program
that has been obsolite for a year in my life since it did not make it
to Pro Tools HD)to use two of the same mic built within a year from
each other that were built less then two years ago????? Please
explain. Thank you.
I look forward to hopefully doing business!!!! You definitly do make
great mics. I just need some of these grey areas cleared up befor I
jump in for three 4k mics at once. Thank You-Kris Singh
db...@soundelux.com (David Bock) wrote in message news:<56a10d05.03041...@posting.google.com>...
JMS
> say that people should require mic modeler(which is a antares program
> that has been obsolite for a year in my life since it did not make it
> to Pro Tools HD)to use two of the same mic built within a year from
> each other that were built less then two years ago????? Please
> explain. Thank you.
>
Kris
Great questions.
You should know that Mic Modeler is available for PTHD for both Mac OS 9 & X.
However, I do not believe you'll find an Elux 251 in their list of modelled mics.
BTW Happy B-Day
Bob Olhsson
>I'm not sure what your problem really is here
Obviously!
Kris Singh
myname...@hotmail.com (Kris Singh) wrote in message news:<29ca82c9.03041...@posting.google.com>...
Fletcher
> David, I am still waitin g for a reply. Please let me know. Thanks-Kris
I'm not David... but perhaps this may be of assistance... http://www.soundeluxmics.com/tech_papers.asp
--
Fletcher
Mercenary Audio
TEL: 508-543-0069
FAX: 508-543-9670
http://www.mercenary.com
"this is not a problem"
Mike Clark
While the Soundelux ELUX 251 is a very good sounding microphone, it
does not sound like our mint, pair of original Telefunken 251's or the
re-issue Telefunken USA 251. In fairness to the Soundelux, our
re-issue 251 is fitted with an original C-12 capsule. With the
original capsule, the re-issue sounds like the real deal. I have not
heard the Telefunken USA 251 with their recreated C-12 capsule. I
think they are still tweaking it.
Mike Clark
Southern Tracks Recording
www.southerntracks.com
YBStudios
>does not sound like our mint, pair of original Telefunken 251's or the
>re-issue Telefunken USA 251. In fairness to the Soundelux, our
>re-issue 251 is fitted with an original C-12 capsule. With the
>original capsule, the re-issue sounds like the real deal. I have not
>heard the Telefunken USA 251 with their recreated C-12 capsule. I
>think they are still tweaking it.
>
>Mike Clark
>Southern Tracks Recording
>www.southerntracks.com
>
>
>
You guys need a couple of more mics for sure.
I get chills just looking at the pictures Mike.
Wayne
Montgomery, Al
David Bock
>
> I bought sn#3 and ordered it before most people even knew you were
> making it. I took delivery and it was defective. I really liked it
> up close, but the sound went away at a distance. I sent it back. You
> fixed it and sent it back. It had a different problem, this time it
> was the power supply. I decided to wait and let you get it together
> and see what happens. Well, time has passed, and you seem to have
> gotten this mic down pretty well(so I hear). I am interested in
> buying (3) of them and I have questions for you. I have left you (2)
> phone messages over the past week. I have not received a call back.
> I don't know if you have access to your phone, but since I see you
> have gotten to this post, please give me a ring. 609-346-1618. I am
> either buying (3) of your Elux, (3) of your new E47 or (3) of the
> Lawson.
>
> Please answer the following so I can get a better sense of the state
> of the Elux.
>
> 1. Is it true that some of the Elux mics have different components
> then others?
> If so, are all the ones being produced now the same
> 2. I have heard a few people tell me you are using cheap parts made in
> China. What "parts" are they referring to, and why did you select
>
> 3. What tube can I expect in these Elux mics? Is the AC 701 an
> option? THE 6072 WAS IN THE ORIGINAL AKG MFG AND IS WHAT WE USE. FORTUNATELY, THE NEW ONES ARE QUIETER THAN THE OLD ONES EVER WERE. IF YOU OWNED A TESTED, KNOWN GOOD AC701 I'M SURE YOUR DEALER COULD FIND A WAY TO MAKE ARRANGEMENTS FOR IT'S INSTALLATYION WITHOUT VOIDING WARRANTY.
>
> 4. Are there going to be any more changes in the Elux anytime soon?
> NOT IN THE ELUX 251.
> 5. How would you describe the sonic differences between your Elux and
> your new E47 mic??? Which would generally excell above with the male
> voice? WELL, THE 251 HAS MORE TOP, OBVIOUSLY, AND IS "FLATTER" THAN THE E47, WHICH HAS A DISTINCTIVE MIDRANGE WITH WEIGHT SOUND. YOU REALIZE I CANNOT POSSIBLY RECCOMEND ONE OVER THE OTHER FOR VOICE, RIGHT?
>
> 6. Should we expect any changes in the E47 from the initial run? PLEASE SEE WWW.SOUNDELUXMICS.COM/TECH_PAPERS.ASP
>
> 7. Are there any "Chinese" parts in the E 47? FUCK NO!!!!! ALL AMERICAN!!!!! METAL SHOP IS IN THE VALLEY (818, HOMESLICE!), PLATERS AROUND THE CORNER, ETC!!!! Please describe the
> build and parts quality? JUST LIKE THE ORIGINAL EXCEPT THE PASSIVES ARE MOUNTED TO A PCB INSTEAD OF A TERMINAL BOARD. What tube and what capsule does it use??? IT USES A JAN SUBMIN WITH THE SAME PLATE IMPEADANCE AS A VF14, AND WHAT WE CALL A KK4701 CAPSULE EACH ONE OF WHICH I SELECT BEFORE INSTALLATION, COMPARED TO MY GOOD RE-DIAPHRAGMED U47 HERE ON THE BENCH.
> Is it more of a kk47 or the M7 sound?? I USED AN M7 FOR MODELING SO IT FALLS MORE TOWARDS THAT SIDE WITHOUT BEING EXACTLY AN M7 (ESPECIALLY UP TOP, WHERE THE. IT REALLY FALLS IN THE RANGE OF KK47'S THAT WEREN'T _TOO_ PEAKY IN THE PRESCENCE RANGE (5KHz- OF WHICH I'VE SEEN LESS OF THAN PEAKY ONES).
>
>
> I also do not understand what you meant by "don't worry they'll just
> use the mic modeler to fix it" Was that a joke??? IT WAS A TWO LEVEL JOKE, AND I WAS BEEING SNIDE.
Do really mean to
> say that people should require mic modeler(which is a antares program
> that has been obsolite for a year in my life since it did not make it
> to Pro Tools HD)to use two of the same mic built within a year from
> each other that were built less then two years ago????? Please
> explain. Thank you. SEE ABOVE
>
> I look forward to hopefully doing business!!!! You definitly do make
> great mics. I just need some of these grey areas cleared up befor I
> jump in for three 4k mics at once. Thank You-Kris Singh NO, THANK YOU CHRIS FOR ASKING SOME REAL QUESTIONS. BTW, I'M SURE THE LAWSON IS A GOOD DEAL FOR WHAT IT IS, BUT IT'S HIGH FREQUENCY SIGNATURE CANNOT BE THE SAME AS A 251 DUE TO THE LARGE DIAMETER OF THE HEADGRILLE, WHICH GREATLY INFLUENCES THE HIGH FREQUENCY (THINK:ROLLER COASTER)RESPONSE.
David Bock
> In article <56a10d05.03041...@posting.google.com>, David
> Bock <db...@soundelux.com> wrote:
>
> >I'm not sure what your problem really is here
>
> Obviously!
The reasons that I don't understand what your problem is:
1) Neumann made several (some drastic) sonic changes to the U47. But
all of those mics say "U47" on them, and many of them look the same.
2) Neumann also made several different sounding versions of the M49,
all of which say "M49" on them, all of which have the same profile (so
they all look the same, unles you're a collector and knop the
differences).
3) Neumann's old U67 used a complex electronics which made the sound
of the mic dependent upon the aging charactristics of the tube, none
of which aged the same, and accounts for why so few of the sound like
each other. Yet again, they all say "U67"
4) So you don't thing I'm ragging on old Neumannn (which I'm not), AKG
made several versions of the 414, some of which had suffixes to
indicate changes and some not. Yet again they look the same and say
"414".
So it is not unusual for manufacturers to make changes and what they
call improvements on the same model.
Hope this cklears it up for you.
Regards,
David Bock
SDOLMER
pursues excellence, and actually spends time & resources upgrading an existing
product. Then offers a free upgrade to those who desire it. I own a Soundelux
mic and it's the best thing I ever bought in my life.
I'm shocked that some of you are complaining. How many times have you remixed a
song, that was already good, just cause you knew you could get it a tad better?
Steve Dolmer
Paul Tumolo
Kris Singh
db...@soundelux.com (David Bock) wrote in message news:<56a10d05.03041...@posting.google.com>...
Nathan Eldred
harsh on David. Many many manufacturers make revisions along the
years in production. Many manufacturers are often on revision #4 or
#5 currently, David being on #3 with the ELUX is quite modest. The
public often doesn't know about it because the manufacturer often just
doesn't say anything. Why should they, when a response like this is
invoked? I would bet my career that all the classic gear in the world
(ie original ELUX, Ampex machines, Neumann, Rupert's early and current
work, etc, etc) from days past went through similar revision from
their initial conception to the end of their production.
If the changes are significant enough, it's obvious that a new model
is introduced born perhaps from the old. Designers are artists just
as much, or more so than they are technicians (sounds like an AE
huh?). Just like all of us, I think designers are never happy with
their work (show me an AE or any person who says they are 100%
satisfied with their past work) and are presented with the unique
opportunity to tweak their product as much as possible within the
confines of the price structure for that product. If you are going to
say "whatever happened to mic manufacturers who used to do something
back in the good old days..." then we have to say "why is it necessary
to continue remastering 30 year old tapes of the Rolling Stones and
Pink Floyd for example on newly developed analog (ie ARIA) & digital
technology (ie SACD)?".
It's because if things have the opportunity to be improved, then they
should be. Don't scorn somebody for wanting to make their pride and
joy better.
Nathan Eldred
http://www.atlasproaudio.com
Bob Olhsson <o...@hyperback.com> wrote in message news:<120420031324219199%o...@hyperback.com>...