Tonight's premieres and other notes (Thursday, Dec. 17)

[Robin Miller]

The Big Bang Theory (season 9 fall finale) (8 pm, CBS)

Returns Jan. 7.




iHeartRadio Jingle Ball (special) (8-9:30 pm, CW)

The star-studded concert from Madison Square Garden is hosted by Elvis
Duran of iHeartMedia's Z100, New York's Hit Music Station. Additional
musical performers will include 5 Seconds of Summer, Demi Lovato, Nick
Jonas, and others.





American Country Countdown's Top 10 Stories of 2015 (special)
(8 pm, Fox)




Life in Pieces (season 1 fall finale) (8:30 pm, CBS)

Returns Jan. 7




Luther (season 4) (9-11:45 pm, BBC America)

A one-night special event. Luther (Idris Elba) is on a leave of absence
after the many tragedies when Detective Chief Inspector Theo Bloom
(Darren Boyd) and Detective Sergeant Emma Lane (Rose Leslie) seek him
out as a cannibalistic serial killer draws Luther further back into the
field. The special also stars Laura Haddock as Megan Cantor, a
mysterious woman from Luther’s past; John Heffernan as the sadistic
cannibal Steven Rose; Patrick Malahide as George Cornelius, an old
school gangster; and Michael Smiley returning as computer whiz Benny
Silver. Ruth Wilson (Alice) and Nikki Amuka-Bird (Erin Gray) are not
returning. The third series was broadcast in 2013. Note that a lot of
news stories describe this as a two-hour affair, but BBC America's
online schedule shows it running through 11:45, as does my Comcast guide.

http://www.metacritic.com/tv/luther/season-4

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1474684/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_%28TV_series%29

http://www.bbcamerica.com/luther/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2015/12/16/idris-elba-luther-beasts-of-no-nation/77087608/

www.nytimes.com/2015/12/16/arts/television/luther-season-4-review.html




Mom (season 3 fall finale) (9 pm, CBS)

Returns Jan. 7




2 Broke Girls (season 5 fall finale) (9:30 pm, CBS)

Returns on Wednesday, Jan. 6 at 8 pm.




Barbara Walters Presents: The 10 Most Fascinating People of 2015
(special) (9:30-11 pm, ABC)





Funniest Commercials Of The Year (special) (10 pm, Spike)




Elementary (season 4 fall finale) (10 pm, CBS)

Returns Jan. 7.




Haven (season 5 and series finale) (10 and
11 pm, two episodes, Syfy)




Running Wild with Bear Grylls (special time) (10
pm, NBC)

The famed survivalist takes President Barack Obama on an intimate trek
across the Alaskan wilderness.




--Robin

[thinbl...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 1:40:37 AM UTC-5, Robin Miller wrote:


> Running Wild with Bear Grylls (special time) (10
> pm, NBC)


> The famed survivalist takes President Barack Obama on an intimate trek
> across the Alaskan wilderness.

Brokeback Barack ?

[anim8rfsk]

In article <ddf3n2...@mid.individual.net>,

Robin Miller <robin....@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> The Big Bang Theory (season 9 fall finale) (8 pm, CBS)
>

This time they get groiny!

In other news, Penny (Penny Penny) is sleeping with Harry Dresden.

>
>
>
>
> Luther (season 4) (9-11:45 pm, BBC America)
>
> A one-night special event. Luther (Idris Elba) is on a leave of absence
> after the many tragedies when Detective Chief Inspector Theo Bloom
> (Darren Boyd) and Detective Sergeant Emma Lane (Rose Leslie) seek him
> out as a cannibalistic serial killer draws Luther further back into the
> field. The special also stars Laura Haddock as Megan Cantor, a
> mysterious woman from Luther’s past; John Heffernan as the sadistic
> cannibal Steven Rose; Patrick Malahide as George Cornelius, an old
> school gangster; and Michael Smiley returning as computer whiz Benny
> Silver. Ruth Wilson (Alice) and Nikki Amuka-Bird (Erin Gray) are not
> returning.

Well, the big reasons to watch Luther are A) Ruth 2) hope that it's the
Eirn Gray from Buck Rogers and third) to cheer when Mrs. Pucci gets it.

>
>
> Elementary (season 4 fall finale) (10 pm, CBS)
>
> Returns Jan. 7.
>
>
> Haven (season 5 and series finale) (10 and
> 11 pm, two episodes, Syfy)

Reminds me I have to watch the ep with The Shat.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Thanks
> --Robin

--
New sig pending

[Adam H. Kerman]

anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net> wrote:
>Robin Miller <robin....@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>>The Big Bang Theory (season 9 fall finale) (8 pm, CBS)

>This time they get groiny!

>In other news, Penny (Penny Penny) is sleeping with Harry Dresden.

Perhaps she's made a better choice of a man this time.

>>Haven (season 5 and series finale) (10 and
>>11 pm, two episodes, Syfy)

>Reminds me I have to watch the ep with The Shat.

There's no point. He showed up at the end of the episode two weeks ago.

[anim8rfsk]

In article <n4ujld$fs4$1...@news.albasani.net>,

I watched his ep last night. Given that I hadn't watched Haven since
the second or third episode, I had *no* idea whatsoever what was going
on. Seems like he's likely to show again so I told the DVR to grab 'em.

--
New sig pending

[Adam H. Kerman]

He was used for lots of exposition and didn't come off as especially
evil. I thought it was a waste. It sort of worked as backstory for some of
what's going on in Haven, at least with respect to season 4 and the first
half of the current season (season 5). There isn't a lot of retconning
taking place, although I've probably forgotten plenty from years ago.

The only thing you really need to know is what happened to the
two newspapermen, the only actual Stephen King characters in the series.
Dave (the short one) turned out to be from the other universe (like
Audrey/Mara and Mara's mother [Laura Mennell]). There was a pointless
time travel episode a few weeks ago, in which Nathan travelled back
to the murder of the Colorado Kid (Audrey's child from two incarnations back
who met Audrey one incarnation back). Vince insisted on travelling back
with Nathan. Vince went back to see his brother in the past and talked
Dave into going into opening a "thinnie" (portal) into the Void, which
released Croatoan from his exile, allowing him to control Dave, resulting
in the murder of the Colorado Kid. Quite a lot of Haven shit turned out
to be Vince's fault.

I don't know why Croatoan murdered the Colorado Kid.

In the present, Croatoan re-asserted control over Dave, which allowed
Croatoan to finally enter the universe as William Shatner. He killed Dave.
Vince felt so guilty (as well he should) that he sacrificed himself to
become the personality of the new Controller (an artificial intelligence
programmed by Mara's mother), necessary to hold Croatoan in the Void.

[anim8rfsk]

In article <n4uoc6$m6q$1...@news.albasani.net>,

Thanks! Hey, the Colorado Kid actually showed up!

--
New sig pending

[Ian J. Ball]

In article <ddf3n2...@mid.individual.net>,
Robin Miller <robin....@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Haven (season 5 and series finale) (10 and
> 11 pm, two episodes, Syfy)

Good Lord, this "final season" has been tough sledding! I'm just glad
this one is finally over. I don't think we've seen a "final season" this
bad since "Warehouse 13"!!

It deeply saddens me that the show we got in season #1 and parts of
season #2 has devolved into this awful, tedious mess. :(

--
"Confirmed. Ass-kicking imminent." - ship's computer, in
"Bangarang" (ep. #1), "Killjoys" (06-19-2015)

[Robin Miller]

Only to be killed.

--Robin

[Connor]

> Luther (season 4) (9-11:45 pm, BBC America)
>
> A one-night special event. Luther (Idris Elba) is on a leave of absence
> after the many tragedies when Detective Chief Inspector Theo Bloom
> (Darren Boyd) and Detective Sergeant Emma Lane (Rose Leslie) seek him
> out as a cannibalistic serial killer draws Luther further back into the
> field. The special also stars Laura Haddock as Megan Cantor, a
> mysterious woman from Luther's past; John Heffernan as the sadistic
> cannibal Steven Rose; Patrick Malahide as George Cornelius, an old
> school gangster; and Michael Smiley returning as computer whiz Benny
> Silver. Ruth Wilson (Alice) and Nikki Amuka-Bird (Erin Gray) are not
> returning. The third series was broadcast in 2013. Note that a lot of
> news stories describe this as a two-hour affair, but BBC America's
> online schedule shows it running through 11:45, as does my Comcast guide.

Yes 2 hrs. on BBC but more in America so we get the whole show with commercials, just like they do with Dr. Who. It's a good thing!

[anim8rfsk]

In article <ddgafa...@mid.individual.net>,

Yeah, but we didn't think it would ever have anything to do with the
novel.

--
New sig pending

[Robin Miller]

Is this the royal "we"?

:-)

--Robin

[anim8rfsk]

In article <ddge8m...@mid.individual.net>,

:)

--
New sig pending

[chicagofan]

anim8rfsk wrote:
> Robin Miller <robin....@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>> Luther (season 4) (9-11:45 pm, BBC America)
>>
>> A one-night special event. Luther (Idris Elba) is on a leave of absence
>> after the many tragedies when Detective Chief Inspector Theo Bloom
>> (Darren Boyd) and Detective Sergeant Emma Lane (Rose Leslie) seek him
>> out as a cannibalistic serial killer draws Luther further back into the
>> field. The special also stars Laura Haddock as Megan Cantor, a
>> mysterious woman from Luther’s past; John Heffernan as the sadistic
>> cannibal Steven Rose; Patrick Malahide as George Cornelius, an old
>> school gangster; and Michael Smiley returning as computer whiz Benny
>> Silver. Ruth Wilson (Alice) and Nikki Amuka-Bird (Erin Gray) are not
>> returning.
> Well, the big reasons to watch Luther are A) Ruth 2) hope that it's the
> Eirn Gray from Buck Rogers and third) to cheer when Mrs. Pucci gets it.
>

Did you notice that Ruth is NOT returning in this one, or are you saying
these are reasons not to watch this one? :)
bj

[anim8rfsk]

In article <n4v3vn$jt6$1...@dont-email.me>, chicagofan <m...@privacy.net>
wrote:

No, I'm saying the 3 big reasons (other than Elba himself) to watch
aren't there.

--
New sig pending

[chicagofan]

anim8rfsk wrote:
> In article <n4v3vn$jt6$1...@dont-email.me>, chicagofan <m...@privacy.net>
> wrote:
>
>> anim8rfsk wrote:
>>> Robin Miller <robin....@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> Luther (season 4) (9-11:45 pm, BBC America)
>>>>
>>>> A one-night special event. Luther (Idris Elba) is on a leave of absence
>>>> after the many tragedies when Detective Chief Inspector Theo Bloom
>>>> (Darren Boyd) and Detective Sergeant Emma Lane (Rose Leslie) seek him
>>>> out as a cannibalistic serial killer draws Luther further back into the
>>>> field. The special also stars Laura Haddock as Megan Cantor, a
>>>> mysterious woman from Luther’s past; John Heffernan as the sadistic
>>>> cannibal Steven Rose; Patrick Malahide as George Cornelius, an old
>>>> school gangster; and Michael Smiley returning as computer whiz Benny
>>>> Silver. Ruth Wilson (Alice) and Nikki Amuka-Bird (Erin Gray) are not
>>>> returning.
>>> Well, the big reasons to watch Luther are A) Ruth 2) hope that it's the
>>> Eirn Gray from Buck Rogers and third) to cheer when Mrs. Pucci gets it.
>>>

>> Did you notice that Ruth is NOT returning in this one, OR are you saying

>> these are reasons not to watch this one? :)
>> bj
> No, I'm saying the 3 big reasons (other than Elba himself) to watch
> aren't there.
>

I think we're saying the same thing ... I just worded my comment badly. ;)
bj

[David Barnett]

In article <ddf3n2...@mid.individual.net>,
robin....@invalid.invalid says...

> Luther (season 4) (9-11:45 pm, BBC
> America)

Thanks,
I didn't know there was a season 4.

--
David Barnett

[Adam H. Kerman]

Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

>The only thing you really need to know is what happened to the
>two newspapermen, the only actual Stephen King characters in the series.
>Dave (the short one) turned out to be from the other universe (like
>Audrey/Mara and Mara's mother [Laura Mennell]). There was a pointless
>time travel episode a few weeks ago, in which Nathan travelled back
>to the murder of the Colorado Kid (Audrey's child from two incarnations back
>who met Audrey one incarnation back). Vince insisted on travelling back
>with Nathan. Vince went back to see his brother in the past and talked
>Dave into going into opening a "thinnie" (portal) into the Void, which
>released Croatoan from his exile, allowing him to control Dave, resulting
>in the murder of the Colorado Kid. Quite a lot of Haven shit turned out
>to be Vince's fault.

Correction: Dave didn't have the ability to open thinnies, but he could
sense them and predict where they'd open, or something like that.

[anim8rfsk]

In article <n51sol$l8b$5...@news.albasani.net>,

Thank you both for that, although I *still* have no idea what the Hell
happened in the finale. :)

--
New sig pending

[A Friend]

In article <anim8rfsk-1ACC7...@news.easynews.com>,

I'm not quite sure, either. I *think* what happened was that the
version of Audrey (Sarah) that had Nathan's baby showed up at the end
with the baby, James, who had been the Colorado Kid. Vince and The
Shat had said that Audrey couldn't go back as Audrey, although they
didn't say why, so she came back as Sarah, the next most recent
iteration -- I think. The ending seemed like a take on HERE COMES MR.
JORDAN, with Audrey/Sarah as the prizefighter.

What's wrong with my theory is that Sarah and the unnamed New Audrey
didn't have the same hairstyle, although it was the same color.

I liked them redoing the pancakes dialogue from ep 1.

[anim8rfsk]

In article <191220150527530746%no...@noway.com>,

Wow, yeah, none of that meant anything.

Vince and The
> Shat had said that Audrey couldn't go back as Audrey, although they
> didn't say why,

That was annoying

so she came back as Sarah, the next most recent
> iteration -- I think. The ending seemed like a take on HERE COMES MR.
> JORDAN, with Audrey/Sarah as the prizefighter.

Good point, although this ending, where she chose voluntarily, is
considerably less sadistic.

>
> What's wrong with my theory is that Sarah and the unnamed New Audrey
> didn't have the same hairstyle, although it was the same color.
>
> I liked them redoing the pancakes dialogue from ep 1.

I assumed that was a callback.

Thanks!

--
New sig pending

[Robin Miller]

This was a new iteration, Paige. Where the baby came from is unclear. We
don't really know how much time passed, I don't think. It wasn't a lot,
but it could have been some...

I actually thought it was a cop-out, after the big heroic lead-up. But
it did give fans what I guess they wanted, (a version of) Audrey and Nathan.

--Robin

[Adam H. Kerman]

A Friend wrote:

Ok, ok, since anim is asking questions, I'll post a review of the two
final episodes. I wasn't planning on thinking any more about Haven as
I watched the last two seasons without adequate entertainment value.

In "Now", the penultimate episode, Duke was under Croatoan's control.
He was acting evil throughout the episode. Several seasons ago, Duke
forsaw his own death at the hands of someone with a Guard tatoo. When
the Guard tatoos were introduced, Duke thought the first man he saw with
one would have been his killer, but then it turned out that Nathan had
one and Vince was head of the Guard. Later, Dwight was head of the Guard
after Vince was caught hiding things (I forgot what it was, but probably
about Dave or hiding things from Dave).

anim, you probably need to know that Troubles are inherited (I think this
was established at the beginning) and that Duke's family had the ability
to obtain the Trouble of someone they killed through blood absorbsion.
Later, Mara enhanced Duke's Trouble by allowing him to retain the absorbed
Trouble permanently. When Croatoan showed up, he used Duke to collect
Troubles that Croatoan needed to accumulate power.

Croatoan's evil plan was to resurrect Mara and use her to continue to
experiment on the people of Haven with various Troubles. (You won't remember,
but Mara was the one who had created the Troubles.) I have no idea
why the fuck that was necessary, given that it had been done for centuries
and what else was there to learn? Croatoan kept claiming he wanted to return
to his world with Mara to wreak havoc in revenge for imprisoning him.
Croatoan turned out to be all talk and no action, which is why the character
was a complete failure and a waste of Shatner.

Audrey used her magic power of persuasion on Duke. Finally, Duke broke
free of Croatoan's control. Duke told them that he'd have to be killed as
Croatoan was taking Troubles that Duke had collected. It turned out that
Croatoan could take Troubles from Duke remotely.

After a lot of discussion, Nathan assasinated Duke as Audrey and the
others looked on.

It didn't exactly fulfill Duke's premonition, because Duke was supposed to
be staring at the Guard tatoo and the assasination scene wasn't staged
to show us that, so partial retcon.

Killing Duke accomplished nothing. Croatoan already had accumulated enough
Troubles and had obtained all the more dangerous ones anyway. I don't know
what the purpose of any of it was. It wasn't done as distraction as
Croatoan didn't need our heroes distracted while he did something else.

In the final episode, Croatoan yaps away about his future plans. Nathan
shows up. Audrey tells off her father about his self righteousness and
how none of his actions were done for Audrey. Croatoan gets mad and
murders Nathan.

Meanwhile, Duke wanders around the oceanfront despite being dead and
tells people to do things. Croatoan had recreated Dwight's dead daughter.
Dwight wasn't exactly convinced that she was real, but Duke told Dwight
to believe that she was real in order to make her real.

I forgot: Croatoan knows Dwight hid the Controller crystal (which
controls the A.I. that maintains the Barn but apparently would also
allow Croatoan to return to his home universe). Dwight brings the
Controller crystal back, but he's stopped by the Guard. There's a merry
chase to this old fortified tower. I have no idea what its military
purpose could have possible been if it wasn't part of a castle, not that
I'd ever heard of castles in Nova Scotia, er, Maine. Croatoan and Audrey
follow Dwight in. It's supposed to be the most heavily fortified building
in Haven (huh?); the Barn takes the shape of the building it's built it.
It doesn't make a lot of sense, other than the set location people thought
it would be cool to use it for the final confrontation.

Anyway, Dwight was just kidding about working with Croatoan. It was
a way to trap him, but it doesn't work.

Audrey gets so angry at her father for murdering Nathan that she finally
convinced her father that she and Nathan were the universe's (or
multiverses) greatest lovers. In an unbelievable turn of events (on par
with Odo ending the war between the Federation and his people just by
agreeing to go back with them in Deep Space Nine), Croatoan just agrees
to return to the Barn and take all the Troubles with him. A vast
Aether cloud spins over Haven that Croatoan had taken from the Void
(aether comes from the Void) that he'd been planning to reign down upon
the whole world, but I guess Croatoan spins it the other way and sucks
all the Troubles out of Haven residents and any who had left Haven.

A.I. Vince tells Croatoan that he can't enter the Barn because the aether
in the Void needs to be powered up to create the prison. Croatoan says
he's full of aether and volunteers to do it. A.I. Vince says Croatoan
can't because it's Love Power that sparks the aether.

Audrey is full of Love Power and agrees to sacrifice herself to spark the
aether. This time, Nathan doesn't stop her. Several seasons back, Nathan
killed Agent Howard, the previous manifestation of the A.I., when Audrey
tried to sacrifice herself to end the Troubles, which made everything
so much worse. Pretty much all the deaths for the last few seasons were
the unintended consequence of Nathan trying to save Audrey, kind of a theme
on this show when Vince screwed with his brother Dave in the past, which
allowed Croatoan a way out of the Barn.

At the show's conclusion, Gloria (the amazing foresic pathologist with
all of medical science at her fingertips despite living in a remote place
like Haven) announces that her genetic testing proves that DNA influenced
by aether has returned to normal. I have no idea how she had something
to compare, as "normal" would have been many many generations back.
But Gloria is convinced that no one can manifest a Trouble any longer.

Nathan meets a stranded motorist. It turns out to be a woman who looks
exactly like Audrey with a little boy. A.I. Vince and Croatoan discuss
that Audrey left the Barn with a new personality that she knows will
lead to her new personality and Nathan falling in love.

Now, that's a huge recon. The premise of the show is that "Audrey" can
only leave the Barn once every 28 years, which triggers another onset
of the Troubles for a few months, then she returns to the Barn and the
Troubles vanish. Well, if there's no longer an aether in our world,
how did she get created and how the hell did a little boy get created?
Audrey looks the same each time she leaves the Barn, but she has a
new personality.

Mara's mother was punishing her evil daughter by giving her a nice personality
and the ability to help people with the Troubles (that Mara had created
800 years ago with William), but the various nice personalities never had
any memory of Mara.

anim, in a time travel episode several seasons back, Nathan had sex
with an Audrey personality two incarnations back, so Nathan was the
biological father of the Colorado Kid, who actually would have been born
20 years before Nathan was born.

This little boy was, uh, conceived immaculately, well, wasn't even
conceived at all. He and new Audrey were just created.

A whole lot was left unexplained. I'll give the writers a little bit of
credit for mostly wrapping up all the crap they introduced two seasons back.
The ultimate revelation of Croatoan was disappointing.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Robin Miller <robin....@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>A Friend wrote:

The baby and Paige were simply created, moments before Nathan showed up.
It should have been impossible as, 1) It wasn't 28 years later, and
2) All the aether had been sucked out of our world and returned to the Void.
That should have ended all the magic.

>I actually thought it was a cop-out, after the big heroic lead-up. But
>it did give fans what I guess they wanted, (a version of) Audrey and Nathan.

I agree. The forced happy ending didn't work. For romance, Nathan making
the noble sacrifice by not preventing Audrey from fulfilling her function
was far more romantic. Also, Nathan had just killed Duke for no useful
reason and therefore didn't deserve a happy ending.

[anim8rfsk]

In article <ddlduq...@mid.individual.net>,

They said it had been a month; the townspeople were complaining that it
had been a month and there was no explanation as to why the tower
collapsed.

>
> I actually thought it was a cop-out, after the big heroic lead-up. But
> it did give fans what I guess they wanted, (a version of) Audrey and Nathan.
>
> --Robin

--
New sig pending

[Robin Miller]

Thanks! I missed that.

--Robin

[anim8rfsk]

In article <n542kf$nin$1...@news.albasani.net>,

Thanks

That worked for me. Any DNA she had that's older than a month has the
marker. Any DNA that's newer than a month doesn't.

> But Gloria is convinced that no one can manifest a Trouble any longer.

Ever, which seems silly given that it's all magic.

>
> Nathan meets a stranded motorist. It turns out to be a woman who looks
> exactly like Audrey with a little boy. A.I. Vince and Croatoan discuss
> that Audrey left the Barn with a new personality that she knows will
> lead to her new personality and Nathan falling in love.
>
> Now, that's a huge recon. The premise of the show is that "Audrey" can
> only leave the Barn once every 28 years, which triggers another onset
> of the Troubles for a few months, then she returns to the Barn and the
> Troubles vanish. Well, if there's no longer an aether in our world,
> how did she get created and how the hell did a little boy get created?
> Audrey looks the same each time she leaves the Barn, but she has a
> new personality.
>
> Mara's mother was punishing her evil daughter by giving her a nice personality
> and the ability to help people with the Troubles (that Mara had created
> 800 years ago with William), but the various nice personalities never had
> any memory of Mara.

Okay, here's something that lost me. The Shat makes a duplicate girl to
make Nathan happy. They ask why he doesn't just make a duplicate girl
for himself, and he says he'd know she wasn't really his daughter. BUT
... the "REAL" girl isn't his daughter anyway, and he knows that. And
then she only hung out with him for at most a month, so what was the
point of *anything* The Shat did?

>
> anim, in a time travel episode several seasons back, Nathan had sex
> with an Audrey personality two incarnations back, so Nathan was the
> biological father of the Colorado Kid, who actually would have been born
> 20 years before Nathan was born.

So are all these Audreys the same person?

>
> This little boy was, uh, conceived immaculately, well, wasn't even
> conceived at all. He and new Audrey were just created.
>
> A whole lot was left unexplained. I'll give the writers a little bit of
> credit for mostly wrapping up all the crap they introduced two seasons back.
> The ultimate revelation of Croatoan was disappointing.

--
New sig pending

[Adam H. Kerman]

anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net> wrote:
>Robin Miller <robin....@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>A Friend wrote:

Gas leak! It's a Haven running gag.

[Adam H. Kerman]

A Friend wrote:

>I'm not quite sure, either. I *think* what happened was that the
>version of Audrey (Sarah) that had Nathan's baby showed up at the end
>with the baby, James, who had been the Colorado Kid. Vince and The
>Shat had said that Audrey couldn't go back as Audrey, although they
>didn't say why, so she came back as Sarah, the next most recent
>iteration -- I think. The ending seemed like a take on HERE COMES MR.
>JORDAN, with Audrey/Sarah as the prizefighter.

I like your catch about the shout out to Here Comes Mr. Jordan.

[Adam H. Kerman]

anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net> wrote:
>"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>A Friend wrote:
>>>anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>>Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

>>. . . At the show's conclusion, Gloria (the amazing foresic pathologist

>>with all of medical science at her fingertips despite living in a
>>remote place like Haven) announces that her genetic testing proves that
>>DNA influenced by aether has returned to normal. I have no idea how
>>she had something to compare, as "normal" would have been many many
>>generations back.

>That worked for me. Any DNA she had that's older than a month has the
>marker. Any DNA that's newer than a month doesn't.

Without magic, Gloria has the ability to look through a microscope, see
DNA, and spot "marker for The Troubles", which would have to alter
something like 400 genes or something. Or, Gloria has the ability to
send DNA samples to a lab that won't say, Hah! New genes! I'm selling
these medical records for drug companies to exploit!

>>But Gloria is convinced that no one can manifest a Trouble any longer.

>Ever, which seems silly given that it's all magic.

I guess if all the aether is truly back in the Void, I can suspend disbelief.

>>Nathan meets a stranded motorist. It turns out to be a woman who looks
>>exactly like Audrey with a little boy. A.I. Vince and Croatoan discuss
>>that Audrey left the Barn with a new personality that she knows will
>>lead to her new personality and Nathan falling in love.

>>Now, that's a huge recon. The premise of the show is that "Audrey" can
>>only leave the Barn once every 28 years, which triggers another onset
>>of the Troubles for a few months, then she returns to the Barn and the
>>Troubles vanish. Well, if there's no longer an aether in our world,
>>how did she get created and how the hell did a little boy get created?
>>Audrey looks the same each time she leaves the Barn, but she has a
>>new personality.

>>Mara's mother was punishing her evil daughter by giving her a nice
>>personality and the ability to help people with the Troubles (that
>>Mara had created 800 years ago with William), but the various nice
>>personalities never had any memory of Mara.

>Okay, here's something that lost me. The Shat makes a duplicate girl to
>make Nathan happy. They ask why he doesn't just make a duplicate girl
>for himself, and he says he'd know she wasn't really his daughter. BUT
>... the "REAL" girl isn't his daughter anyway, and he knows that. And
>then she only hung out with him for at most a month, so what was the
>point of *anything* The Shat did?

You missed all the William stuff. He was Mara's boyfriend from back home,
escaping into our world then causing the Troubles, although Mara was
much better at it than William.

William proved that Mara was a suppressed personality, not dead. He
brought out Mara, who had her memories. Mara created new, much
much worse Troubles.

Croatoan believed that if he caused enough trouble, Mara would force her
way out of Audrey to join in the fun. It's just that Charlotte (Mara's
mother and the developer of the technology of the Barn and the A.I.s)
wiped out the Mara personality and resurrected the Audrey personality.
I don't recall how Audrey got her memory back, but Audrey's memory
was entirely artificial.

So if Croatoan had the ability to bring Mara out of supression, that
would have been a retcon.

>>anim, in a time travel episode several seasons back, Nathan had sex
>>with an Audrey personality two incarnations back, so Nathan was the
>>biological father of the Colorado Kid, who actually would have been born
>>20 years before Nathan was born.

>So are all these Audreys the same person?

I think the various incarnations of the Mara personality were supposed to
be the same person as the memories were intact, but no, every 28 years
when The Barn dumped out a new individual, those are all separate people.
None of them could recall prior incarnations at all. No memories were left.

I'm going with the Philip K. Dick defition of personhood, based on memory.

[anim8rfsk]

In article <n54ac2$3bt$9...@news.albasani.net>,

"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

+1

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[anim8rfsk]

In article <n54a8q$3bt$8...@news.albasani.net>,

I figured. :)

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[anim8rfsk]

In article <ddlnbg...@mid.individual.net>,

[anim8rfsk]

In article <n54bbv$8b8$1...@news.albasani.net>,

LOL, thanks

--
New sig pending

[David Barnett]

In article <n542kf$nin$1...@news.albasani.net>,
a...@chinet.com says...
<Big snip>

Well the final episode had a Hollywood happy ending.

A type of ending which I've seen in at least 2 movies;
that is the hero or heroine falls in love with a
doppelganger, replacing the dead previous love.

I liked the 2 episodes, but not sorry to see the end of
the show.

--
David Barnett

[A Friend]

In article <n5430o$nin$2...@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman

It had been a month since the Tower collapsed. Nathan says so near the
beginning of the sequence at the police station.

> The baby and Paige were simply created, moments before Nathan showed up.
> It should have been impossible as, 1) It wasn't 28 years later, and
> 2) All the aether had been sucked out of our world and returned to the Void.
> That should have ended all the magic.

It ended all the magic in Haven and the rest of the world, but I think
the Barn is where the magic came from and wound up being contained.

> >I actually thought it was a cop-out, after the big heroic lead-up. But
> >it did give fans what I guess they wanted, (a version of) Audrey and Nathan.
>
> I agree. The forced happy ending didn't work. For romance, Nathan making
> the noble sacrifice by not preventing Audrey from fulfilling her function
> was far more romantic.

Agreed.

[A Friend]

In article <anim8rfsk-8A235...@news.easynews.com>,

Thank you both.

[A Friend]

In article <n542kf$nin$1...@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman

<a...@chinet.com> wrote:

> There's a merry chase to this old fortified tower. I have no idea
> what its military purpose could have possible been if it wasn't part
> of a castle, not that I'd ever heard of castles in Nova Scotia, er,
> Maine.

It might have been a shot tower; many old towns have them, and this one
was about the right height. They'd pour molten lead from the top of
the tower into a surrounding moat. On the way down, the lead would
separate into small balls, or "shot," that would solidify when they hit
the water in the moat.

[Adam H. Kerman]

A Friend wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

>>. . . The baby and Paige were simply created, moments before Nathan

>>showed up. It should have been impossible as, 1) It wasn't 28 years
>>later, and 2) All the aether had been sucked out of our world and

>>returned to the Void. That should have ended all the magic. . . .

>It ended all the magic in Haven and the rest of the world, but I think
>the Barn is where the magic came from and wound up being contained.

I have real problems with yet another incarnation. The only way it works
is that The Barn let just enough aether out of the Void to allow another
incarnation of Audrey to be created, with the baby. After centuries of
crap, this is exactly the thing you don't want to happen.

It occurs to me that when the aether was sucked back into the Void,
Dwight's recreated daughter shouldn't have continued to exist.

What, they can do magic without aether in the case of creating
people?

I never know what the writers are thinking.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Ok. How does that defend the rest of the town, though? I'm not even
sure what war this would have been from.

[anim8rfsk]

In article <191220152235230506%no...@noway.com>,

They said it was an 'armory tower' which is usually a tower attached to,
you know, an armory. I can't find an example of a free standing armory
tower.

The shot tower seems a lot more like it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_tower

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[Adam H. Kerman]

All right all right; I understand a shot tower wasn't defensive, but
about manufacture. There's one in Montreal, but this wasn't it.

[anim8rfsk]

In article <n559oe$j6s$1...@news.albasani.net>,

Was there some character who had turned into architecture? Anybody else
remember the Bed-Sitting Room?

--
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[Adam H. Kerman]

anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net> wrote:
>"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>A Friend wrote:
>>>Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

>>>>. . . The baby and Paige were simply created, moments before Nathan
>>>>showed up. It should have been impossible as, 1) It wasn't 28 years
>>>>later, and 2) All the aether had been sucked out of our world and
>>>>returned to the Void. That should have ended all the magic. . . .

>>>It ended all the magic in Haven and the rest of the world, but I think
>>>the Barn is where the magic came from and wound up being contained.

>>I have real problems with yet another incarnation. The only way it works
>>is that The Barn let just enough aether out of the Void to allow another
>>incarnation of Audrey to be created, with the baby. After centuries of
>>crap, this is exactly the thing you don't want to happen.

>>It occurs to me that when the aether was sucked back into the Void,
>>Dwight's recreated daughter shouldn't have continued to exist.

>>What, they can do magic without aether in the case of creating
>>people?

>>I never know what the writers are thinking.

>Was there some character who had turned into architecture?

She was the police dispatcher, merged into the police station. In Haven,
a Trouble can be absolutely anything; the writers had no limits.

>Anybody else remember the Bed-Sitting Room?

That was a copy of Mara's bedroom from the home she grew up in in the
other universe. No, Audrey didn't remember it.

[Ian J. Ball]

Well, I'll never forgive them for not revisiting Real Audrey Parker's fate at the end either... >:\

[anim8rfsk]

In article <b425649d-3da7-447a...@googlegroups.com>,

Again, whoosh

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[anim8rfsk]

In article <n55hv4$o60$2...@news.albasani.net>,

http://www.veoh.com/watch/v18728107N337ZF76

http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-bed-sitting-room-1970

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[Adam H. Kerman]

anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net> wrote:
>"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

>>anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net> wrote:

>>>Anybody else remember the Bed-Sitting Room?

>>That was a copy of Mara's bedroom from the home she grew up in in the
>>other universe. No, Audrey didn't remember it.

>http://www.veoh.com/watch/v18728107N337ZF76

>http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-bed-sitting-room-1970

sorry. I didn't get the reference at all. I'll have to track that down.
Thanks.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Ian J. Ball <ijb...@mac.com> wrote:

She was killed almost immediately after being introduced.

[anim8rfsk]

In article <n56gee$af7$3...@news.albasani.net>,

[anim8rfsk]

In article <n56gip$af7$4...@news.albasani.net>,

Is that the girl from the pilot?

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[Ian J. Ball]

In article <n56gip$af7$4...@news.albasani.net>,

Absolutely wrong, Adam - Real Audrey Parker (Kathleen Munroe) was
basically "mind-wiped" and turned into a vegetable thanks to the
existence of "magical Audrey" (as per Wiki: "Audrey #2, investigating
the man who sent Audrey to Haven, follows a lead to a building (The
Barn) outside Haven where she loses her memory and her fiancé takes her
away from Haven.").

The fucking writers never followed up on whether returning "magical
Audrey" to the Barn would "restore" Real Audrey Parker's mind.

--
"Confirmed. Ass-kicking imminent." - ship's computer, in
"Bangarang" (ep. #1), "Killjoys" (06-19-2015)

[Ian J. Ball]

In article <ddlduq...@mid.individual.net>,

Robin Miller <robin....@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> A Friend wrote:

> > In article <anim8rfsk-1ACC7...@news.easynews.com>,
> > anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> In article <n51sol$l8b$5...@news.albasani.net>,

> >> "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> >>> Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> >>>

> >>>> The only thing you really need to know is what happened to the
> >>>> two newspapermen, the only actual Stephen King characters in the series.
> >>>> Dave (the short one) turned out to be from the other universe (like
> >>>> Audrey/Mara and Mara's mother [Laura Mennell]). There was a pointless
> >>>> time travel episode a few weeks ago, in which Nathan travelled back
> >>>> to the murder of the Colorado Kid (Audrey's child from two incarnations
> >>>> back
> >>>> who met Audrey one incarnation back). Vince insisted on travelling back
> >>>> with Nathan. Vince went back to see his brother in the past and talked
> >>>> Dave into going into opening a "thinnie" (portal) into the Void, which
> >>>> released Croatoan from his exile, allowing him to control Dave, resulting
> >>>> in the murder of the Colorado Kid. Quite a lot of Haven shit turned out
> >>>> to be Vince's fault.
> >>>
> >>> Correction: Dave didn't have the ability to open thinnies, but he could
> >>> sense them and predict where they'd open, or something like that.
> >>
> >> Thank you both for that, although I *still* have no idea what the Hell
> >> happened in the finale. :)
> >

> > I'm not quite sure, either. I *think* what happened was that the
> > version of Audrey (Sarah) that had Nathan's baby showed up at the end
> > with the baby, James, who had been the Colorado Kid. Vince and The
> > Shat had said that Audrey couldn't go back as Audrey, although they
> > didn't say why, so she came back as Sarah, the next most recent
> > iteration -- I think. The ending seemed like a take on HERE COMES MR.
> > JORDAN, with Audrey/Sarah as the prizefighter.
> >

> > What's wrong with my theory is that Sarah and the unnamed New Audrey
> > didn't have the same hairstyle, although it was the same color.
> >
> > I liked them redoing the pancakes dialogue from ep 1.
>
> This was a new iteration, Paige. Where the baby came from is unclear. We
> don't really know how much time passed, I don't think. It wasn't a lot,
> but it could have been some...
>

> I actually thought it was a cop-out, after the big heroic lead-up. But
> it did give fans what I guess they wanted, (a version of) Audrey and Nathan.
>

> --Robin

I'd rather have Duke (and probably Dave) back alive than Audrey!! >:\

At least they didn't kill off (hott) "Intern"!

[anim8rfsk]

In article
<ijball-NO_SPAM-1C7...@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu>,

So 'real Audrey' is 'Audrey #2'?

--
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[anim8rfsk]

In article
<ijball-NO_SPAM-25A...@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu>,

"Ian J. Ball" <ijball-...@mac.invalid> wrote:

How come Nathan didn't offer to go with Audrey and The Shat?

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[Adam H. Kerman]

I don't remember the pilot very well. The genuine Audrey Parker showed up
in season 2, I think, but was killed in her second appearance. We all
thought it would have been an intriguing development to keep her around
as a recurring character, but they don't do things like that on Haven.

[Ian J. Ball]

Yes, though I changed that today at the Wiki page, as she really was "Real Audrey Parker", as the show made clear.

[Adam H. Kerman]

>Barn) outside Haven where she loses her memory and her fiance takes her
>away from Haven.").

A mind wipe is death of personality, Ian. She's dead. There's no
"real Audrey Parker". As we've been discussing whether the "Audrey"
that used to get resurrected every 28 years was the same person each time,
and I've taken the position that she's not, then I'm taking the position
that "real Audrey Parker" died when her mind was wiped.

No, I didn't recall how she got written out, so thanks for the reminder,
but you're wrong, Ian.

>The fucking writers never followed up on whether returning "magical
>Audrey" to the Barn would "restore" Real Audrey Parker's mind.

Well, that's one thing that we haven't seen on Haven, have we. Mara
was different; the underlying personality was always there. The "Audrey"
we have now was recreated, not the earlier personality.

"Real Audrey", if she came back, would have to be a recreation, not
a restoration, if there's any consistency in Haven.

You're also wrong that any Haven viewer wanted to see that, since all of
us hate the Haven writers for coming up with an interesting character, then
immediately getting rid of her. Doing what you suggest wouldn't fix shit.

[anim8rfsk]

In article <n56p6q$rrc$1...@news.albasani.net>,

Ep 1:
"FBI Agent Audrey Parker travels to the town called Haven to investigate
the death of an escaped prisoner. She soon discovers that his death is
the tip of the iceberg for supernatural phenomena, including someone
whose moods appear to affect the weather."

Ep 2:
"Audrey remains in Haven to investigate her mother's connection to the
Colorado Kid, but ends up investigating the destruction of a bar and a
series of incidents targeting her and others."

Ep 3:
"As Audrey settles into her new job as police officer in Haven, she and
Nathan investigate an upheaval at the local psychiatric hospital
involving something that causes the mad to become sane and vice versa.
Audrey gets her first clue to the woman in the picture of the Colorado
Kid. Her name might have been Lucy."

I watched at least that much. I was disappointed at the absence of
Nicole deBoer, who apparently appeared only in the pilot, finale, and
one time in the middle.

So what makes Audrey #2 "genuine"?

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[Adam H. Kerman]

Ian is just trying to confuse you.

In Haven's pilot, Audrey was an FBI agent assigned to Haven by Agent Howard.
Much, much later, it was revealed that Audrey was an artificial personality,
but that in order for her to fulfill her law enforcement duties, Agent
Howard created her personality with the memories of a genuine woman,
whom Ian is called "real Audrey". Agent Howard assumed that the FBI would
never, under any circumstances, show up in Haven, let alone send the actual
Audrey. In an amazing coincidence, that's what happened.

The Audrey we know from the pilot was destroyed when William was able
to get the underlying Mara personality to re-assert itself. Nathan was
able to convince Charlotte (Mara's mother and the creator of all the
technology that surpressed Mara's personality and created new artificial
personalities) to wipe out the Mara personality completely and re-create
the Audrey personality. So post-Mara, it's been a different Audrey.

Ian's gonna argue, but Ian's wrong.

[Adam H. Kerman]

anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net> wrote:

>How come Nathan didn't offer to go with Audrey and The Shat?

That is a good question. Nathan's been in The Barn.

[Adam H. Kerman]

She's the real woman who lived the life that were the basis for the
memories of the artificial Audrey personality we met in the pilot.

The real woman was played by an actress who looked nothing like
Emily Rose, so artificial Audrey's body isn't a clone of the real woman,
but a clone of Mara.

I don't recall Nicole deBoer at all. Were she and Audrey FBI partners?
I guess I don't see how that wouldn't be a retcon, then, since one hopes
she'd know what her partner really looks like.

[anim8rfsk]

In article <n5740i$cg0$3...@news.albasani.net>,

Wow. Thanks!

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[anim8rfsk]

In article <n5742c$cg0$4...@news.albasani.net>,

"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

I was waiting for at least for him to offer and have The Shat shake his
head, with no further explanation ...

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[anim8rfsk]

In article <n574g8$cg0$6...@news.albasani.net>,

No, Nicole was a local shopkeeper or something. She was in the pilot
enough I thought she'd be a major player, but she vanished without
mention.

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[Adam H. Kerman]

Thanks.

[anim8rfsk]

In article <n57m3a$4sj$3...@news.albasani.net>,

NP

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