FILM IS DEAD LONG LIVE TV

[jess stone]

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/julia-roberts-tv-show-today-will-be-different-annapurna-1201943644/?mbid=nl_HW_585421d31f0e0969155ac00b&CNDID=29546046

FILM IS DEAD, LONG LIVE TV

First it was Sally Field, then it was Laura Linney, and then it was
nearly every other major actress as we realized, hey, this medium is
actually pretty decent for women. Now television has claimed another
film actress—Julia Roberts. Roberts is set to star in a limited series
based on Maria Semple’s newest novel, Today Will Be Different, with
Megan Ellison’s Annapurna Pictures producing its first TV project.
Variety’s Elizabeth Wagmeister writes, “Today Will Be Different is
about a day in the life of Eleanor Flood, played by Roberts. The
character is admittedly a bit of a mess, as she decides that today is
the day to tackle the little things that she has been neglecting. Of
course, life gets in the way of success as a fake-sick son, errant
husband, and a former colleague with a bomb-dropping memoir derail her
modest plan. Taking place over the course of one day, the series is
described as a ‘hilarious, heart-filled story’ about re-invention,
sisterhood, and how sometimes it takes facing our former selves to
truly begin living.”

<I have long since lost interest in Miss Robert's recent endeavors but
in my head her past work feeds the crush I had on her for so many
years.>

[Horace LaBadie]

In article <jbkb5ctsi60o41ncr...@4ax.com>,
jess stone <jess...@gmail.com> wrote:

> http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/julia-roberts-tv-show-today-will-be-different-

> annapurna-1201943644/?mbid=nl_HW_585421d31f0e0969155ac00b&CNDID=29546046
>
> FILM IS DEAD, LONG LIVE TV
>
> First it was Sally Field, then it was Laura Linney, and then it was
> nearly every other major actress as we realized, hey, this medium is
> actually pretty decent for women.

First?

You would think that an institution such as Variety would have a memory
stretching back to women like Loretta Young and Lucille Ball.

[RichA]

Did a millenial write the article?

[Adam H. Kerman]

Did Lucille Ball even have a starring role in the movies before
I Love Lucy? I'm not counting a couple of the movies she did like
The Fuller Brush Girl, essentially the same character. I recall
supporting roles in the '40s but no starring roles, and her radio program.

Some actors have had bigger tv careers than movies, and vice versa.
Plenty go back and forth. It's always been idiocy that television
was a step down from movies, given that in the days of three networks,
you might have 10s of millions of viewers a week. That's a bigger
audience than movies were drawing in first release.

[David Johnston]

They weren't part of the current increase in actors migrating to
television from film.

[Adam H. Kerman]

The hell it's a migration. It's exile. I'm sure they'd make a movie
if anyone offered them a decent role. Likely the offer wasn't made.

Did you somehow miss the stupidity of the title of the article?

[suzeeq]

I think that myth was perpetuated by the film industry because they were
afraid people wouldn't continue to go out to movies, staying home to be
entertained for free. It didn't happen, though I think tv was partly
respsonsible for the demise of the studio system and contract actors.

[Adam H. Kerman]

I credit the 13th Amendment.

[A Friend]

In article <hlabadie-F8BBBE...@aioe.org>, Horace LaBadie

Or that Sally Field was on TV in three series between 1965 and 1974, in
each case in the title role. She also starred in the acclaimed
miniseries SYBIL in 1976. It seems the writer didn't know about any of
that.

[Horace LaBadie]

In article <o34qur$ip7$1...@dont-email.me>, suzeeq <su...@imbris.com>
wrote:

> Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> > Horace LaBadie <hlab...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >> jess stone <jess...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/julia-roberts-tv-show-today-will-be-differ
> >>> ent-annapurna-1201943644/?mbid=nl_HW_585421d31f0e0969155ac00b&CNDID=295460
> >>> 46
> >
> >>> FILM IS DEAD, LONG LIVE TV
> >
> >>> First it was Sally Field, then it was Laura Linney, and then it was
> >>> nearly every other major actress as we realized, hey, this medium is
> >>> actually pretty decent for women.
> >
> >> First?
> >
> >> You would think that an institution such as Variety would have a memory
> >> stretching back to women like Loretta Young and Lucille Ball.
> >
> > Did Lucille Ball even have a starring role in the movies before
> > I Love Lucy? I'm not counting a couple of the movies she did like
> > The Fuller Brush Girl, essentially the same character. I recall
> > supporting roles in the '40s but no starring roles, and her radio program.

Lucy did a variety of movies. She had noir roles like The Dark Corner,
and horror/mysteries like Lured, in addition to comedies and musicals.
She was a bankable star.

> > Some actors have had bigger tv careers than movies, and vice versa.
> > Plenty go back and forth. It's always been idiocy that television
> > was a step down from movies, given that in the days of three networks,
> > you might have 10s of millions of viewers a week. That's a bigger
> > audience than movies were drawing in first release.
>
> I think that myth was perpetuated by the film industry because they were
> afraid people wouldn't continue to go out to movies, staying home to be
> entertained for free. It didn't happen, though I think tv was partly
> respsonsible for the demise of the studio system and contract actors.

Considering the number of big movie stars who were early entrants in TV,
it seems as if it was a losing argument from the first.

There was no shortage of women stars doing TV regularly. Barbara
Stanwyck was all over the place as a guest star. Bette Davis did a Perry
Mason when Burr was hospitalized.

Of course, later, you had people like Henry Fonda and James Stewart
doing TV series.

[Horace LaBadie]

In article <o34ouh$ef5$1...@dont-email.me>,

It should be "lately," then, not first. And Sally Field _started_ in TV
ages ago as Gidget. The premise is flawed. It's as though TV history
started five years ago for this person.

[Adam H. Kerman]

A Friend wrote:
>Horace LaBadie <hlab...@nospam.com> wrote:

>>jess stone <jess...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/julia-roberts-tv-show-today-will-be-different-annapurna-1201943644/?mbid=nl_HW_585421d31f0e0969155ac00b&CNDID=29546046

>>>FILM IS DEAD, LONG LIVE TV

>>>First it was Sally Field, then it was Laura Linney, and then it was
>>>nearly every other major actress as we realized, hey, this medium is
>>>actually pretty decent for women.

>>First?

>>You would think that an institution such as Variety would have a memory
>>stretching back to women like Loretta Young and Lucille Ball.

>Or that Sally Field was on TV in three series between 1965 and 1974, in
>each case in the title role. She also starred in the acclaimed
>miniseries SYBIL in 1976. It seems the writer didn't know about any of
>that.

I've never seen The Girl With Something Extra. Anyone?

How can one forget The Flying Nun or Gidget?

[A Friend]

In article <o353q0$v91$2...@dont-email.me>, Adam H. Kerman

I watched it. It was a take on BEWITCHED that lasted only one season.
Sally was a 20-something who had ESP. Co-star was John Davidson, the
wholesome singer, who played her husband. The only thing I remember
about it was a script change Sally got. Early in the pilot, John (then
her boyfriend) takes Sally home and thinks it'd be great if he stayed
over. The script had mind-reading Sally acting all flustered and
how-dare-you? without John having actually said anything. The change
was that Sally stayed calm and told him "not yet." This was a big deal
back then.

[anim8rfsk]

In article <o353q0$v91$2...@dont-email.me>,
"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

Yeah.

Meh.

>
> How can one forget The Flying Nun or Gidget?

--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/

[Adam H. Kerman]

A Friend wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>A Friend wrote:
>>>Horace LaBadie <hlab...@nospam.com> wrote:

>>>>>>>>http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/julia-roberts-tv-show-today-will-be-different-annapurna-1201943644/?mbid=nl_HW_585421d31f0e0969155ac00b&CNDID=29546046

>>>>>FILM IS DEAD, LONG LIVE TV

>>>>>First it was Sally Field, then it was Laura Linney, and then it was
>>>>>nearly every other major actress as we realized, hey, this medium is
>>>>>actually pretty decent for women.

>>>>First?

>>>>You would think that an institution such as Variety would have a memory
>>>>stretching back to women like Loretta Young and Lucille Ball.

>>>Or that Sally Field was on TV in three series between 1965 and 1974, in
>>>each case in the title role. She also starred in the acclaimed
>>>miniseries SYBIL in 1976. It seems the writer didn't know about any of
>>>that.

>>I've never seen The Girl With Something Extra. Anyone?

>I watched it. It was a take on BEWITCHED that lasted only one season.
>Sally was a 20-something who had ESP. Co-star was John Davidson, the
>wholesome singer, who played her husband. The only thing I remember
>about it was a script change Sally got. Early in the pilot, John (then
>her boyfriend) takes Sally home and thinks it'd be great if he stayed
>over. The script had mind-reading Sally acting all flustered and
>how-dare-you? without John having actually said anything. The change
>was that Sally stayed calm and told him "not yet." This was a big deal
>back then.

Ah. I had no idea that a girl had to be able to read minds to learn
that a guy wanted to have sex. They sure had a different understanding
of human biology way back when.

It sounds like tv was dead to her, and she was forced to take several
unpopular movies in a row like Smokey and the Bandit, Hooper, and
Norma Rae, utterly ruining her career.

[Ed Stasiak]

> Horace LaBadie

>
> The premise is flawed. It's as though TV history started five years ago for this person.

What do you mean, brah?...

[Micky DuPree]

> TV,it seems as if it was a losing argument from the first.

>
> There was no shortage of women stars doing TV regularly. Barbara
> Stanwyck was all over the place as a guest star.

And even starred in a series, but I don't think they were asking Barbara
Stanwyck to star in movies anymore at that point.

> Bette Davis did a Perry Mason when Burr was hospitalized.

Bette Davis famously ran an ad in _Variety_ looking for work, though,
once she was older.

> Of course, later, you had people like Henry Fonda and James Stewart
> doing TV series.

Although neither had a really successful TV series.

Except for a comparative handful of big names, it's harder for male
actors to get good work in movies once they're older, and much MUCH
harder for actresses. Now that the best drama in America is on the
small screen rather than the big screen, and TV doesn't have the same
stigma it used to, more older talent is willing to work on the small
screen even though it's usually less money for longer hours.

Martin Sheen certainly wasn't starving when he landed _The West Wing_,
but he wasn't headlining movies either. I remember Glenn Close in
_Damages_ and _The Shield_. Likewise Forest Whitaker in _The Shield_.
I can think of a lot more TV roles for Rob Lowe since _The West Wing_
than I can think of movie roles. For that matter, Charlie Sheen is
better known recently for TV work rather than movie work. I know there
have been other examples of older actors shifting their focus from
movies to TV in the last couple of decades, but I can't think of them
offhand.

-Micky

[Horace LaBadie]

In article <o44pcs$89j$1...@pcls7.std.com>,

MDu...@theworld.com.snip.to.reply (Micky DuPree) wrote:

> > There was no shortage of women stars doing TV regularly. Barbara
> > Stanwyck was all over the place as a guest star.
>
> And even starred in a series, but I don't think they were asking Barbara
> Stanwyck to star in movies anymore at that point.
>

Stanwyck's last theatrical movie was in 1964, The Night Walker. Her last
substantive movie was Walk on the Wild Side, which was on Fox's MoviesTV
recently.

But the original article was based on the premise that NOW women are
going to TV. My objection was that they have been finding work in TV
since the beginning.

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

On Saturday, December 17, 2016 at 8:32:02 PM UTC-5, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

> Did Lucille Ball even have a starring role in the movies before
> I Love Lucy?

Yes. They show up on TCM from time to time. One film was with a
young Nancy Walker with Ball hiding out in a prep school. Another
film was with William Holden, where she was his assistant and
they trying to build a housing development; that film had some
pre-cursors of her Lucy Ricardo character in it.

> Some actors have had bigger tv careers than movies, and vice versa.
> Plenty go back and forth. It's always been idiocy that television
> was a step down from movies, given that in the days of three networks,
> you might have 10s of millions of viewers a week. That's a bigger
> audience than movies were drawing in first release.

Actors also move to/from the stage over their careers.

I've read that in the very early days of TV, lots of "B" movie or
lower-tier actors went to TV since there more opportunities in TV.
Indeed, it's been said that television is _somewhat_ of an remake
of the B-movie divisions of the studios.

Historically, TV actors were considered a step below movie actors;
they many TV folks didn't have the range and skills to be a true
film star. This is despite what you said about actors often moving
back and forth between media.

Historically, a good motion picture was considered a finer piece of
work than a good TV show, despite perhaps higher ratings.

Of course, then and now, lots of studio films were released that were
mere mass entertainment and never expected to do that well or be
considered a work of art. Once in a while, a cheap 'throwaway' movie
will become a breakout hit.

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

On Saturday, December 17, 2016 at 9:07:47 PM UTC-5, suzeeq wrote:

> I think that myth was perpetuated by the film industry because they were
> afraid people wouldn't continue to go out to movies, staying home to be
> entertained for free. It didn't happen, though I think tv was partly
> respsonsible for the demise of the studio system and contract actors.

Right after the war the studios both hated and were terrified of TV.
They fought it every way they could, including forbidding the showing
or mention of television in a film. That is, a family's living room
would have a radio set, but no TV nor mention of it.

But eventually Hollywood realized they had to work with TV and there
were uses for it--such as using their B production facilities to make
TV shows and renting old films to air on TV.

Also at the time Hollywood was forced to divest its ownership of
theatres, which provided a guaranteed run for their films. Ironically,
today, the studios can also be exhibitors through other media. Nice
monopoly if you can get it. (see separate post on retransmission fees).


As to the studio system/contract actors, it's not clear what caused
that demise. One factor _may_ have court decisions against some of
the restrictive and onerous contract terms imposed on the actors.
The overall system may also have become unworkable. Perhaps the
retirement of some of the moguls hurt the system.

It seems the Warner Bros actors and producers jumped ship as soon
as they could. I don't think Jack Warner was too well loved.

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

On Saturday, December 17, 2016 at 11:36:29 PM UTC-5, Horace LaBadie wrote:

> It should be "lately," then, not first. And Sally Field _started_ in TV
> ages ago as Gidget. The premise is flawed. It's as though TV history
> started five years ago for this person.

It's like people who write computer history and think it all started
with the PC.

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

On Saturday, December 17, 2016 at 11:38:47 PM UTC-5, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

> How can one forget The Flying Nun or Gidget?

They're on the rerun channels.

Gidget isn't terrible, but it is definitely very dated. They went out
of their way to be "innocent", even for the early 1960s. They also
went out of the way to keep Gidget feminine and maintain the old
boundaries between girl and boy behavior and social expectations.

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

On Thursday, December 29, 2016 at 11:56:01 PM UTC-5, Micky DuPree wrote:

> > Of course, later, you had people like Henry Fonda and James Stewart
> > doing TV series.
>
> Although neither had a really successful TV series.

Remember that awful Fonda detective show, with Ron Howard?
(If you don't remember it, you're lucky.)

[Horace LaBadie]

In article <d0608e0a-07a9-4dab...@googlegroups.com>,

The Smith Family.

Remember when he was a teacher on The Bill Cosby Show?

[william ahearn]

On Saturday, December 17, 2016 at 7:50:33 PM UTC-5, Horace LaBadie wrote:
>
>
> You would think that an institution such as Variety would have a memory
> stretching back to women like Loretta Young and Lucille Ball.

Or Barbara Stanwyck. Or Anna May Wong. Or . . .

[A Friend]

In article <d0608e0a-07a9-4dab...@googlegroups.com>,
<hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:

I do. Fonda was a police detective. Every time he came home from
work, they'd make a big deal out of showing him locking up his service
revolver in a box in the closet. I think it took him ten minutes each
time he did it. Awful show.

I remember that the Jimmy Stewart series was sold without a pilot.
They just filmed Stewart talking about the premise for a few minutes.
"What is it about? It's about half an hour," he said.

Charlton Heston swore up and down he'd never do TV again after his live
stuff in the '50s, but his film career was drying up (I remember him
saying that all he was being offered was roles as fathers of computer
geniuses), so he did a miniseries, found that TV had changed enough to
suit him, and did The Colbys for Aaron Spelling. It wasn't terribly
successful.

Film actresses found great opportunities in TV, though, and kept their
careers going for years -- Lucille Ball most famously, but also Donna
Reed and some others. The guys, not so much -- Ray Milland, Ronald
Coleman, the aforementioned Chuck Heston and the like. (Ronald Reagan
did great, though, with Death Valley Days and GE Theater.)

[Michael Black]

On Fri, 30 Dec 2016, A Friend wrote:

> In article <d0608e0a-07a9-4dab...@googlegroups.com>,
> <hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, December 29, 2016 at 11:56:01 PM UTC-5, Micky DuPree wrote:
>>
>>>> Of course, later, you had people like Henry Fonda and James Stewart
>>>> doing TV series.
>>>
>>> Although neither had a really successful TV series.
>>
>> Remember that awful Fonda detective show, with Ron Howard?
>> (If you don't remember it, you're lucky.)
>
>
> I do. Fonda was a police detective. Every time he came home from
> work, they'd make a big deal out of showing him locking up his service
> revolver in a box in the closet. I think it took him ten minutes each
> time he did it. Awful show.
>

That reminds me, Karl Malden of course did well on tv, after doing movies.
Not just "Streets of San Francisco", but in 1980 "Skag".

But you can then keep thinkig of other examples. We probably know Eddie
Albert because of "Green Acres", but he's also the kind of Beatnik
photographer in "A Roman Holiday".

ANd that becomes interesting, because when you start looking, you also see
overlapping, tv and movies, or back to movies. So clearly the division
isn't as distinct as we all believed at one point.

Michael

[Adam H. Kerman]

A Friend wrote:
>hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>>On Thursday, December 29, 2016 at 11:56:01 PM UTC-5, Micky DuPree wrote:

>>>>Of course, later, you had people like Henry Fonda and James Stewart
>>>>doing TV series.

>>>Although neither had a really successful TV series.

>>Remember that awful Fonda detective show, with Ron Howard?
>>(If you don't remember it, you're lucky.)

>I do. Fonda was a police detective. Every time he came home from
>work, they'd make a big deal out of showing him locking up his service
>revolver in a box in the closet. I think it took him ten minutes each
>time he did it. Awful show.

That sounds awful

>I remember that the Jimmy Stewart series was sold without a pilot.
>They just filmed Stewart talking about the premise for a few minutes.
>"What is it about? It's about half an hour," he said.

Jimmy Stewart's radio western was decent.

>Charlton Heston swore up and down he'd never do TV again after his live
>stuff in the '50s, but his film career was drying up (I remember him
>saying that all he was being offered was roles as fathers of computer
>geniuses), so he did a miniseries, found that TV had changed enough to
>suit him, and did The Colbys for Aaron Spelling. It wasn't terribly
>successful.

>Film actresses found great opportunities in TV, though, and kept their
>careers going for years -- Lucille Ball most famously, but also Donna
>Reed and some others. The guys, not so much -- Ray Milland, Ronald
>Coleman, the aforementioned Chuck Heston and the like. (Ronald Reagan
>did great, though, with Death Valley Days and GE Theater.)

Ronald Coleman had a radio program for two and a half seasons. After a
two-season gap, it was translated to television for a season. I've heard
plenty of the radio episodes but never saw the television version.

The Halls of Ivy

Dick Powell had a second career on radio and television; he was never my
favorite singer. I've seen a few episodes of Four Star Theater; thought
it was a decent anthology show. He originated Richard Diamond on radio
(played by David Janssen with Mary Tyler Moore's legs as his secretary
on tv), and the short-lived Rogue's Gallery, tongue-in-cheek style.

He wasn't a big movie star prior to Murder My Sweet, which I liked, and
would play Philip Marlowe on radio as well.

He certainly promoted his own career, remaking himself several times as
he moved back and forth among movies, radio, and television.

Isn't Ronald Reagan the most famous of all? He even got a little gig in
Washington for 8 years, thanks to television.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Oh, give me a fucking break. She wasn't successful on tv. That's too
obscure for even me, so I had to look it up.

Anna May Wong did The Gallery of Madame Liu-Tsong for DuMont, which
aired 10 episodes 3rd and 4th quarter, 1951. That was NOT a successful
television program. DuMont dumped its archive of kinescopes into Upper New
York Bay upon the demise of the studio, I guess, because no one wanted to
pay for any rental storage space, the bastards. The Wikipedia article
says that a few survive at Museum of Broadcast Communications, founded
by Bruce DuMont, son of Allen DuMont, which Wikipedia failed to note.

She dealt with Chinese art, so naturally, it's a crime drama with
international intrigue. Maybe I'll see if there's an episode I can
watch at the museum.

[Micky DuPree]

My objection is that the move to TV is more age related than
specifically gender related (since you can find examples of male former
film headliners moving to TV as well as they get older), although female
performers feel the decline in movie roles with age even more acutely
than male performers do.

-Micky