Alison Sweeney talks about the internet on Entertainment Tonight!
JDiMera
I just saw an interview with Ali Sweeney on ET. She talked about what it
was like not being a pencil-thin actress in a medium that prides itself on
all of its perfectly-shaped stars. She talked about how hurt she was when
she read the "Spammi" comments, and how she cried over them. Now this is
to all of the people out there that have said negative things about Ali
due to her weight: You are all a bunch of trash. How dare you condemn a
person due to the size of their body. Believe me, as a 19 year-old male,
I would feel BLESSED if I could be with someone like Ali. She is gorgeous
and talented. And frankly, I find her to be more attractive then a lot of
the other people on soaps, who look almost TOO thin. Kudos to Ali for
putting up with everything that so many of the nasty, so-called "fans" say
about her. She certainly has a *TRUE* fan in me.
J
Defender of Days
Long live Viv & Ivan!
Brenda S. Caldwell
jdi...@aol.com (JDiMera) wrote:
>J
>Defender of Days
I have always thought that she was pretty even though she is a little
chuibby, , ,kind iof like those of us who prefer the chubby Hope to
the skinny one.
I do not like green eggs and SPAM. . .
Brendarelli®
JulieCiz
Subject: Alison Sweeney talks about the internet on Entertainment Tonight!
From: jdi...@aol.com (JDiMera)
Date: 30 May 1997 23:52:06 GMT
Message-ID: <19970530235...@ladder02.news.aol.com>
>>I just saw an interview with Ali Sweeney on ET. She talked about what
it
was like not being a pencil-thin actress in a medium that prides itself on
all of its perfectly-shaped stars. She talked about how hurt she was when
she read the "Spammi" comments, and how she cried over them. Now this is
to all of the people out there that have said negative things about Ali
due to her weight: You are all a bunch of trash. How dare you condemn a
person due to the size of their body. Believe me, as a 19 year-old male,
I would feel BLESSED if I could be with someone like Ali. She is gorgeous
and talented. And frankly, I find her to be more attractive then a lot of
the other people on soaps, who look almost TOO thin. Kudos to Ali for
putting up with everything that so many of the nasty, so-called "fans" say
>>about her. She certainly has a *TRUE* fan in me.
>J
>Defender of Days
I'm glad Ali made her feelings known on this situation. Much as I can't
stand the show anymore, I still like and admire most of the cast and this
includes Ali. I know of a number of daytime actors that have been hurt by
posts they have read and by rumors that have been spread. Seems we hold a
good deal of power. We have the power to help and support, or the power to
ruin and cause pain. I wish everyone would think before they post, put
themselves in the other guys shoes. Actors have feelings just like you do.
Julie(Peanutbutter Cup) \ Julie's Used Books /
Fan of AW and GH \ e-mail me for current list /
Former fan of Days \ Juli...@aol.com /
Some of Daytimes best: \------------------------------------/
RKK, Stephen Nichols, Lynn Herring and Jensen Buchanan
LAWard
>>I just saw an interview with Ali Sweeney on ET. She talked about what
it
was like not being a pencil-thin actress in a medium that prides itself on
all of its perfectly-shaped stars. She talked about how hurt she was when
she read the "Spammi" comments, and how she cried over them. Now this is
to all of the people out there that have said negative things about Ali
due to her weight: You are all a bunch of trash. How dare you condemn a
person due to the size of their body. Believe me, as a 19 year-old male,
I would feel BLESSED if I could be with someone like Ali. She is gorgeous
and talented. And frankly, I find her to be more attractive then a lot of
the other people on soaps, who look almost TOO thin. Kudos to Ali for
putting up with everything that so many of the nasty, so-called "fans" say
>>about her. She certainly has a *TRUE* fan in me.
>J
>Defender of Days
I'm glad Ali made her feelings known on this situation. Much as I can't
stand the show anymore, I still like and admire most of the cast and this
includes Ali. I know of a number of daytime actors that have been hurt by
posts they have read and by rumors that have been spread. Seems we hold a
good deal of power. We have the power to help and support, or the power to
ruin and cause pain. I wish everyone would think before they post, put
themselves in the other guys shoes. Actors have feelings just like you
do.<<<
Silly as it seems (since I don't think that the actors actually read these
posts much) I think it's perfectly fine to keep criticisms of actors in
the "constructive criticism" range. You know things they can change--
like going over the top sometimes in a performance, a bad hair cut, fake
crying, etc. I do not, however, feel that it's fair to attack them the
basis of something that is just them. Allison doesn't that that small
bone structure of a Christie Clark. She is never going to be a reed thin
size two. She cannot be. Allison isn't overweight-- she is just build
differently than the darn near anorexic Kristian Alfonso. There is
nothing wrong with her shape or size, it was the way she was born and she
can't change nor should everyone out here in the audience expect her too.
She looks fine. And she does a good job at making everyone hate Sammi--
which is exactly what she is paid to do. So she is doing her job well.
Lisa
Stacey42
Right on J!! For one, Alison is not fat. Whoever started this whole
"Alison Sweeney is fat" crap are a bunch of losers. Sami may "look" fat
compared to Hope! But that is because Hope is sickingly THIN.
DISGUSTINGLY thin. Alison is MUCH more healthier looking!
*********
Subject: Alison Sweeney talks about the internet on Entertainment Tonight!
From: jdi...@aol.com (JDiMera)
Date: 30 May 1997 23:52:06 GMT
Message-ID: <19970530235...@ladder02.news.aol.com>
I just saw an interview with Ali Sweeney on ET. She talked about what it
was like not being a pencil-thin actress in a medium that prides itself on
all of its perfectly-shaped stars. She talked about how hurt she was when
she read the "Spammi" comments, and how she cried over them. Now this is
to all of the people out there that have said negative things about Ali
due to her weight: You are all a bunch of trash. How dare you condemn a
person due to the size of their body. Believe me, as a 19 year-old male,
I would feel BLESSED if I could be with someone like Ali. She is gorgeous
and talented. And frankly, I find her to be more attractive then a lot of
the other people on soaps, who look almost TOO thin. Kudos to Ali for
putting up with everything that so many of the nasty, so-called "fans" say
about her. She certainly has a *TRUE* fan in me.
J
Defender of Days
Stacey
Stac...@AOL.COM
icebr...@mindspring.com
stac...@aol.com (Stacey42) wrote:
>Right on J!! For one, Alison is not fat. Whoever started this whole
>"Alison Sweeney is fat" crap are a bunch of losers.
First off, let me just say that i'm very glad that i've never stated
anything negative about her weight, or anyone else's. I would hurt me
to know she'd been hurt. It hurts me know. She seems like a nice girl.
But,, I *think* Allison has gotten some of her facts wrong. I remember
last year around the summer time two hiefers from the University of
Houston named Wendee and Cathee who kept starting up posts like "Sammi
is a big fat pig". That was last year. On the whole, I have'nt seen
anything remotely close to those fat pig threads since. Also, the
"spammi" comments, unless i'm naive, are directed at Sammi, not
Allison.
> Sami may "look" fat
>compared to Hope! But that is because Hope is sickingly THIN.
>DISGUSTINGLY thin. Alison is MUCH more healthier looking!
Oh, come on. That's not fair either. Your boosting up Allison at
Kristin Alfonso's expense. Allison's perceived "fatness" is no more
our business than Alfonso's percieved 'sickening thiness'.
Icebreaker
"007 Forever"
'Tomorrow Never Dies' news and more at:
"http://members.tripod.com/~mdk/Bond18.html"
icebr...@mindspring.com
juli...@aol.com (JulieCiz) wrote:
>
>I'm glad Ali made her feelings known on this situation. Much as I can't
>stand the show anymore, I still like and admire most of the cast and this
>includes Ali. I know of a number of daytime actors that have been hurt by
>posts they have read and by rumors that have been spread. Seems we hold a
>good deal of power. We have the power to help and support, or the power to
>ruin and cause pain. I wish everyone would think before they post, put
>themselves in the other guys shoes. Actors have feelings just like you do.
True that. True that. But, I reserve the right to criticize Drake
Hogestyn's lack of acting ability all I want. I criticize people's
performance, not their looks, weight etc...
If we can heap praise upon them so much (like I do with Jamie Lynn and
Eileen Davidson) then we have the right to target the quality of their
performances.
People like Cathee and Wendee of the University of Houston, who last
year ran a bunch of "Sammi is big fat pig" threads, are wastes of your
time. If you need corrective counseling to tell you it's not nice to
call people names, then you're beyond hope. And those girls are. At
their age, they know better.
I hope Allison continues to check in to RATSM and know that she is
appreciated. In fact, I bet after that special ran last night, she's
checking to see the reaction. Let's show support.
Frenchy
Stacey42 wrote:
>
> Right on J!! For one, Alison is not fat. Whoever started this whole
> compared to Hope! But that is because Hope is sickingly THIN.
> DISGUSTINGLY thin. Alison is MUCH more healthier looking!
>
>
> Subject: Alison Sweeney talks about the internet on Entertainment Tonight!
> From: jdi...@aol.com (JDiMera)
> Date: 30 May 1997 23:52:06 GMT
> Message-ID: <19970530235...@ladder02.news.aol.com>
>
> I just saw an interview with Ali Sweeney on ET. She talked about what it
> was like not being a pencil-thin actress in a medium that prides itself on
> all of its perfectly-shaped stars. She talked about how hurt she was when
> she read the "Spammi" comments, and how she cried over them. Now this is
> to all of the people out there that have said negative things about Ali
> due to her weight: You are all a bunch of trash. How dare you condemn a
> person due to the size of their body. Believe me, as a 19 year-old male,
> I would feel BLESSED if I could be with someone like Ali. She is gorgeous
> and talented. And frankly, I find her to be more attractive then a lot of
> the other people on soaps, who look almost TOO thin. Kudos to Ali for
> putting up with everything that so many of the nasty, so-called "fans" say
> about her. She certainly has a *TRUE* fan in me.
>
> J
>
> Defender of Days
>
> Stacey
> Stac...@AOL.COM
You said it!!!!
eri...@worldnet.att.net
Icebreaker wrote:
>>>>>>>>
Oh, come on. That's not fair either. Your boosting up Allison at
Kristin Alfonso's expense. Allison's perceived "fatness" is no more
our business than Alfonso's percieved 'sickening thiness'.
<<<<<<<<
Right on!! I don't know where people get the idea that it's ok to bash
thin people to the moon, but if you say anything about a heavy person
it's cruel and insensitive. People make choices about what their
bodies look like and some people don't like other people's choices,
but that's no reason to get mean about it!
Amy
sk...@onramp.com
. I know of a number of daytime actors that have been hurt by
>posts they have read and by rumors that have been spread. Seems we hold a
>good deal of power. We have the power to help and support, or the power to
>ruin and cause pain. I wish everyone would think before they post, put
>themselves in the other guys shoes. Actors have feelings just like you do.
I couldn't agree more. While it's fun to read this ng and trash the
characters, a lot of the comments I've read have made me feel bad for
the actors themselves....the negative comments on physical attributes
such Lucas' teeth or Sami's weight., for example. I'd LOVE to post
pics of the people who make these cruel statements just to turn the
tables and let 'em have a dose of their own medicine -- nobody's
perfect.
icebr...@mindspring.com
eri...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
Thanks. It's really a double standard and one that many people don' t
think about when they make comments like the person who I responded
to did. I know no offense was meant, but being overweight or
underweight *is* a personal choice, and if we're going to extend to
Allison the courtesy of staying out of her "weighty" affairs, we
should do the same to Kristin.
PM Watch
In article <3390c21...@news.mindspring.com>,
icebr...@mindspring.com writes:
snipped
> I remember
>last year around the summer time two hiefers from the University of
>Houston named Wendee and Cathee who kept starting up posts like "Sammi
>is a big fat pig".
Do you think that calling Wendee and Cathee hiefers is a good way to
address the problem of body image insults against actors? It's wrong to
attack Allison on the basis of her body, and it is equally wrong to attack
her attackers on the basis their body image.
PM Watch
Roseanne Veltre
forget the alison/sami is fat thing!! She's the healthiest looking one
on the show!!! (--well, next to mike horton-- ;) hehe).
Roseanne Veltre
forget the alison/sami is fat thing!! She's the healthiest looking one
icebr...@mindspring.com
pmw...@aol.com (PM Watch) wrote:
>Do you think that calling Wendee and Cathee hiefers is a good way to
>address the problem of body image insults against actors? It's wrong to
>attack Allison on the basis of her body, and it is equally wrong to attack
>her attackers on the basis their body image.
I'd say you had a point there, but i'm not suret that 'heifers'
implies a weight condition. Does it?
Pulliam-Schiele
On 2 Jun 1997 07:29:53 GMT, pmw...@aol.com (PM Watch) wrote:
>In article <3390c21...@news.mindspring.com>,
>icebr...@mindspring.com writes:
>snipped
>> I remember
>>last year around the summer time two hiefers from the University of
>>Houston named Wendee and Cathee who kept starting up posts like "Sammi
>>is a big fat pig".
>
>Do you think that calling Wendee and Cathee hiefers is a good way to
>address the problem of body image insults against actors? It's wrong to
>attack Allison on the basis of her body, and it is equally wrong to attack
>her attackers on the basis their body image.
Besides which, it's insulting to cows.
Squeaks
To reply via email, please remove the word "botcatcher" from address
Proud Alumna of the Dept. of Defense Dependent Schools
and an *Overseas Brat*
Hand Salute!
> || Straighten
> ||
> || Up and
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> || Fly Right!
Pulliam-Schiele
On Mon, 02 Jun 1997 12:57:42 GMT, icebr...@mindspring.com wrote:
>pmw...@aol.com (PM Watch) wrote:
>
>>Do you think that calling Wendee and Cathee hiefers is a good way to
>>address the problem of body image insults against actors? It's wrong to
>>attack Allison on the basis of her body, and it is equally wrong to attack
>>her attackers on the basis their body image.
>
>I'd say you had a point there, but i'm not suret that 'heifers'
>implies a weight condition. Does it?
A heifer is a young cow that has not yet borne a calf. Soooo, I'm
thinkin' that the implication is on the table, but it's erroneously
attributed.
Squeaks...picker of nits
icebr...@mindspring.com
Roseanne Veltre <vel...@psi.com> wrote:
>
>I don't know, but isn't a "heifer" a cow??? Either way, it wasn't used
>in a very positive context.....
Well, Wendee nor Cathee were very "positive" people. They constantly
carped on Allison's weight, so you'll understand, if not outright
forgive me for being less than concerned about the feelings of two
turds wasting good grant money at the University of Houston.
If anyone thought that I was attacking their weight, by calling them
heifers, in order to make Allison look good, I apologize for causing
that misunderstanding.That was'nt my intention.
DonnaB
On 2 Jun 1997 19:52:35 GMT, ma...@Eng.Sun.COM (Marcy Hartman) wrote:
| I saw Alison's interview, and if I remember correctly the whole
| Spammi thing had to do with the quality of the acting. There
| were people (myself included) who felt that Alison needed some
| acting lessons, and said so in some pretty strong words. And
| Alison was not the only one who got slammed...The actor who
| was playing Austin at the time (how quickly and mercifully we
| forget?) also took his lumps.
|
| Frankly, Alison's acting is the ONLY thing that has improved on
| DrOOL. As her role has grown Alison has expanded her ability
| to make us believe she IS Sammi. I think that the fact that so
| many people detest Samantha Brady is a tribute to the actress.
I keep thinking this is all about very old news. I know that I've
read several times before about Alli's reaction to finding out that
Sami bashers existed on the Internet & it was 2 & 3 years ago. This
doesn't sound any different or new. And, I'm proud to say that I
think the Sami defenders outrank the Sami bashers by a large majority!
'One of the RATS Donnas, Mouse Pushing Wacko, GRITS & SWATCHer,
'DonnaB, Fan of AW & GH who wuz robbed at the Daytime Emmys 1997
MOBILE
From the way she looks I think you will find that she has lost weight when she
finally gets out of the wheelchair.
==========LAWard, 5/31/97==========
>>I just saw an interview with Ali Sweeney on ET. She talked about what
it
was like not being a pencil-thin actress in a medium that prides itself on
all of its perfectly-shaped stars. She talked about how hurt she was when
she read the "Spammi" comments, and how she cried over them. Now this is
to all of the people out there that have said negative things about Ali
due to her weight: You are all a bunch of trash. How dare you condemn a
person due to the size of their body. Believe me, as a 19 year-old male,
I would feel BLESSED if I could be with someone like Ali. She is gorgeous
and talented. And frankly, I find her to be more attractive then a lot of
the other people on soaps, who look almost TOO thin. Kudos to Ali for
putting up with everything that so many of the nasty, so-called "fans" say
>>about her. She certainly has a *TRUE* fan in me.
>J
>Defender of Days
I'm glad Ali made her feelings known on this situation. Much as I can't
stand the show anymore, I still like and admire most of the cast and this
includes Ali. I know of a number of daytime actors that have been hurt by
posts they have read and by rumors that have been spread. Seems we hold a
good deal of power. We have the power to help and support, or the power to
ruin and cause pain. I wish everyone would think before they post, put
themselves in the other guys shoes. Actors have feelings just like you
do.<<<
Garlic Peel
In article <3392316...@news.mindspring.com>,
<icebr...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>to did. I know no offense was meant, but being overweight or
>underweight *is* a personal choice, and if we're going to extend to
It isn't always a "choice", either. Some heavy folks and some very thin
folks, are not that way by choice, but by some quirk of metabolism or
genetics, or some other factor.
There is a pervasive set of mythologies about fat people that don't seem
to exist about thin ones- that fat people eat all the time, never
exercize, are lazy, are stupid, don't care about how they look. There
may be similar stereotypes for thin people, but I'm not familiar with
them, except for having to hear "you should *eat*" frequently. The
media, and popular culture, support thinness *far* over fatness, neither
of which is a good thing. There is a place for every size and shape of
person, just as there is for every colour and belief and preference.
On the topic at hand, I think Alison looks great, and is a good actress
who is improving steadily. It's sad that she was hurt by stupid comments
made on this newsgroup- perhaps if we temper our comments and keep them
in good taste, remembering that actors are human beings, more of these
actors might read ratsm, etc., and eventually regard this newsgroup as a
safe space to be.
And anyone who tears down anyone for physical characteristics is clearly too
stupid to come up with something *real* to comment on.
TTFN,
Garlic
(Obviously, Reilly's fat is between his ears :^)
--
_______________________________Valerie's Mate_____________________________
Ariel and felines Scorpio Pook Misty Zipper Vixen Jazmyn HollyB's Mom
http://www.savina.com/~june
icebr...@mindspring.com
gar...@news.netgate.net (Garlic Peel) wrote:
>It isn't always a "choice", either. Some heavy folks and some very thin
>folks, are not that way by choice, but by some quirk of metabolism or
>genetics, or some other factor.
True, but you're just nitpicking now Garlic. My comments were aimed
at those who have control over their body weight. I can't write
commentary that's all inclusive. The issue was about Allison's weight,
not people who are chained to their weight by genetics, which is rare.
Most people, if they'd put down the ho-ho's and the ding dongs would
lose a couple of pounds.
>
>There is a pervasive set of mythologies about fat people that don't seem
>to exist about thin ones- that fat people eat all the time, never
>exercize, are lazy, are stupid, don't care about how they look.
The *majority* of fat people are lazy when it comes to proper eating,
and exercise. If they ate right, and exercised 30 minutes a day, they
would'nt be fat.
>There
>may be similar stereotypes for thin people, but I'm not familiar with
>them, except for having to hear "you should *eat*" frequently.
There *are* stereotypes about thin people i.e. he/she must be on
drugs; she must binge and purge; smoking is the only way that he/she
stays thin. When I think back on all the comments about Kristin
Alfonso's weight, the word most associated with her is "ANOREXIC".
Quite clearly and obviously, through the use of collagen
injections(for the lips) and Breast implants( those are not natural)
Kristin has reshaped her image. Does she use tummy tuck to look so
slim or does she just eat right and have good eating habits? I've no
clue. I don't care. It is obvious though that these are all choices
she's making .
>The
>media, and popular culture, support thinness *far* over fatness, neither
>of which is a good thing. There is a place for every size and shape of
>person, just as there is for every colour and belief and preference.
I'm glad you mentioned this above. I don't want to FIGHT, but it
would be nice to chew the fat or dig in our claws for a spell or two.
We've not fought in a loooonnnggg time. Have I mellowed? Have I been a
good boy? I don't think so. But I do admit I need a challenge, and
you've just thrown the gauntlet. True, there is a place for fat
people, but not at all times should that place be equal to the place
for thin people. There's nothing inherently wrong or evil with fat
people, but I would'nt want to see an fat person modeling bathing
suits.
How many fat people won an Olympic Gold medal in swimiming at the
Atlanta Olympics?
How many fat people were in the equestrian event at the Olympics?
How many fat people were in the bicycle race at the Olympics?
Fat is not healthy and I won't let you argue that it is, if that's
what you intended. Though I don't think that's what you meant.
>
>On the topic at hand, I think Alison looks great,
Quite true. She's BABE-ALICOUS.
>and is a good actress
>who is improving steadily.
Also true.
>And anyone who tears down anyone for physical characteristics is clearly too
>stupid to come up with something *real* to comment on.
Wendee, and Cathee are lost causes. They did their damage last year,
which was about the time Allison said she saw the messages. People
like Wendee and Cathee are lost causes because at this point in their
life, they know right from wrong. Either their parents poorly raised
them, they just don't care to be civil to others, or both.
>TTFN,
>Garlic
>(Obviously, Reilly's fat is between his ears :^)
Hey, I thought there was nothing wrong with fat?
PM Watch
>gar...@news.netgate.net (Garlic Peel) wrote:
>>It isn't always a "choice", either. Some heavy folks and some very
>>thin folks, are not that way by choice, but by some quirk of
>>metabolism or genetics, or some other factor.
In article <3394d288...@news.mindspring.com>,
icebr...@mindspring.com writes:
>
>True, but you're just nitpicking now Garlic. My comments were aimed
>at those who have control over their body weight. I can't write
>commentary that's all inclusive. The issue was about Allison's weight,
>not people who are chained to their weight by genetics, which is rare.
>Most people, if they'd put down the ho-ho's and the ding dongs would
>lose a couple of pounds.
What do you call a treatment that has a 95% failure rate? You don't
call it a cure! 95% of all diets end in failure. It is not a matter of
just
putting down the Ho-Ho's. As more and more research gets published
the evidence mounts that control of weight up or down is not a simple
matter of mind over ding dongs.
(snipped)
>
>The *majority* of fat people are lazy when it comes to proper eating,
>and exercise. If they ate right, and exercised 30 minutes a day, they
>would'nt be fat.
No they would be healthier overweight people.
(snipped)
>How many fat people won an Olympic Gold medal in swimiming at >the
Atlanta Olympics?
>
>How many fat people were in the equestrian event at the Olympics?
>
>How many fat people were in the bicycle race at the Olympics?
>
Alison Sweeney is in the height/weight ratio of the athletes you've
mentioned yet she has been subjected to countless fat pig comments
these last years.
How many thin people were in the top weight lifting competitions?
How many thin people are linemen in the NFL?
For that matter how many short people are in the NBA, or 7 foot tall
men playing soccer?
Different sports require different body types.
> Fat is not healthy and I won't let you argue that it is, if that's
>what you intended. Though I don't think that's what you meant.
>
Destructive dieting is less healthy than maintaining a stable weight
that is above normal.
This is not nitpicking. You are perpetuating stereotypes and myths. In
doing so you make it more difficult for overweight people to live a
healthy happy life.
PM Watch
icebr...@mindspring.com
pmw...@aol.com (PM Watch) wrote:
>
>What do you call a treatment that has a 95% failure rate? You don't
>call it a cure! 95% of all diets end in failure. It is not a matter of
>just
>putting down the Ho-Ho's. As more and more research gets published
>the evidence mounts that control of weight up or down is not a simple
>matter of mind over ding dongs.
>(snipped)
The problem you are describing is probably a person who goes on such a
strict diet, that when the "come off" the diet, and start eating
again, they can't control themselves, go buck wild, and gain it all
back.
>>
>>The *majority* of fat people are lazy when it comes to proper eating,
>>and exercise. If they ate right, and exercised 30 minutes a day, they
>>would'nt be fat.
>
>No they would be healthier overweight people.
>(snipped)
That makes no sense. Health is relative from one person to the next,
but you CANNOT be at your ultimate peak in fitness and shape and be
overweight.
>
>>How many fat people won an Olympic Gold medal in swimiming at >the
>Atlanta Olympics?
>>
>>How many fat people were in the equestrian event at the Olympics?
>>
>>How many fat people were in the bicycle race at the Olympics?
>>
>
>Alison Sweeney is in the height/weight ratio of the athletes you've
>mentioned yet she has been subjected to countless fat pig comments
>these last years.
>
Allison is not in the height/weight ratio that I mentioned above. If
she'd been trying to perform in gymastics, or diving, her coaches
would've told her to drop 15 pounds. As for the countless "fat pig"
comments...i've made my position on that very clear, and I don't
think, no I know that what i'm saying does'nt translate into "Allison
Sweeny is a big fat pig".
>How many thin people were in the top weight lifting competitions?
>
>How many thin people are linemen in the NFL?
>
>For that matter how many short people are in the NBA, or 7 foot tall
>men playing soccer?
>
>Different sports require different body types.
There are no fat men in the NBA. As far as the NFL....yes, they are
some overweight men there. Most are not. Most are huge due to muscle,
but it is possible to be too big even in the NFL. In Atlanta, Craig
Heyward was told to lose the weight. He did and became a better
running back. Even Refridgerator Perry got too big.
>>
>Destructive dieting is less healthy than maintaining a stable weight
>that is above normal.
See, there you go with that same old rhetoric that I hear women use to
justify why fat people should be considered as healthy "thin" people.
NOBODY was talking about destructive dieting. That is a whole
different topic. That's another thread. No one suggested that she not
eat. What would be wrong with Allison, in theory, cutting the fat out
of her diet, and exercising on a treadmill and with weights 45 minutes
a day? Let's say she does that and loses 15 pound in 3 months. Is that
destructive dieting?
Gee, sometimes you women say this stuff, I feel, just so gool looking,
slightly overweight girls like Allison WON'T lose the weight, and all
y'all will feel better about yourselves. That is it, is'nt it? If
Allison decided to drop 15 pounds, it might remind some of y'all that
y'all could do it to.
>
>This is not nitpicking. You are perpetuating stereotypes and myths. In
>doing so you make it more difficult for overweight people to live a
>healthy happy life.
This is rich. Really, really rich. You have no idea what i've overcome
to get where I am today. 3 years ago Iwas bordering on the FAT ZONE.
10 more pounds and I would've had to start going to fat stores to get
my suits, pants and other clothes. I finally said enough is enough,
and did something about it. I've never criticized others who did'nt
lose the same amount I did (60 lbs), or those who are in better shape
than I am. It's all relative to what a person can do.
The truth is, you're are perpetuating a newly formed and created
"stereotype" that fat is healthy and acceptable. This is a trend that
has been a knee jerk reaction to the so many women being caught up in
anorexia nervosa. Well, i'll tell you something...anorexia nervosa
is'nt a good thing, and neither is being FAT.
TresBonBon
>to did. I know no offense was meant, but being overweight or
>underweight *is* a personal choice, and if we're going to extend to
It isn't always a "choice", either. Some heavy folks and some very thin
folks, are not that way by choice, but by some quirk of metabolism or
genetics, or some other factor.
There is a pervasive set of mythologies about fat people that don't seem
to exist about thin ones- that fat people eat all the time, never
exercize, are lazy, are stupid, don't care about how they look. There
may be similar stereotypes for thin people, but I'm not familiar with
them, except for having to hear "you should *eat*" frequently. The
media, and popular culture, support thinness *far* over fatness, neither
of which is a good thing. There is a place for every size and shape of
person, just as there is for every colour and belief and preference.
On the topic at hand, I think Alison looks great, and is a good actress
who is improving steadily. It's sad that she was hurt by stupid comments
made on this newsgroup- perhaps if we temper our comments and keep them
in good taste, remembering that actors are human beings, more of these
actors might read ratsm, etc., and eventually regard this newsgroup as a
safe space to be.
And anyone who tears down anyone for physical characteristics is clearly
too
stupid to come up with something *real* to comment on.
TTFN,
Garlic
(Obviously, Reilly's fat is between his ears :^)
Right on Garlic! I couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks for
expressing my feelings.
Bonbon
DonnaB
On 4 Jun 1997 00:42:21 GMT, gar...@news.netgate.net (Garlic Peel)
wrote:
| In article <3392316...@news.mindspring.com>,
| <icebr...@mindspring.com> wrote:
|
| >to did. I know no offense was meant, but being overweight or
| >underweight *is* a personal choice, and if we're going to extend to
Personal choice, ... snort!
| It isn't always a "choice", either. Some heavy folks and some very thin
| folks, are not that way by choice, but by some quirk of metabolism or
| genetics, or some other factor.
|
| There is a pervasive set of mythologies about fat people that don't seem
| to exist about thin ones- that fat people eat all the time, never
| exercize, are lazy, are stupid, don't care about how they look. There
| may be similar stereotypes for thin people, but I'm not familiar with
| them, except for having to hear "you should *eat*" frequently. The
| media, and popular culture, support thinness *far* over fatness, neither
| of which is a good thing. There is a place for every size and shape of
| person, just as there is for every colour and belief and preference.
|
| On the topic at hand, I think Alison looks great, and is a good actress
| who is improving steadily. It's sad that she was hurt by stupid comments
| made on this newsgroup- perhaps if we temper our comments and keep them
| in good taste, remembering that actors are human beings, more of these
| actors might read ratsm, etc., and eventually regard this newsgroup as a
| safe space to be.
|
| And anyone who tears down anyone for physical characteristics is clearly too
| stupid to come up with something *real* to comment on.
|
| TTFN,
| Garlic
| (Obviously, Reilly's fat is between his ears :^)
Hmm, I guess I thought it was an echo chamber, ...
Not snipping on purpose, ...
"Oh, let me guess. You are out to bag a certain son of Sydney." -
TracyQ to Zoey, 3/18/97, CITY
The Doctor
I'm with ya'll I love Ali too, she is gorgeous, she
seems to have a sweet personality. I also think that
if Ali can't take the critism then she is definately
in the wrong buisness. Because this industry is full
of critism, you can't stop people from saying stuff
like that, that's just life. And whichever one of
you said that Kristian Alfonso was anorxic (sp) that
is bullshit, I'm sorry, you just don't like her
because she is not fat (no offense Ali) like Ali. Now
don't attack Kristian just because Ali is fat, it is
not Kristian's fault.
Charlotte Johnson
: As for Allison Sweeny, she is a little overweight, and happens to have a
: plump face. I don't think her weight is putting her in danger, but often a
: young overweight person will end up as an older very overweight person.
: Not always, but often.
I just have one question How do you know Allison is a little overweight?
Do you know her excat weight , height , and body frame? Do youn also know
what hercourt weight should be? Only a doctor could say if she is
overweight or not.
: Sailor
: *A positive message for a positive future*
--
charlotte Johnson
"Maybe only in our blind belief can we ever find the truth" -
Amy Grant " Grown-up christmas list"
tsc...@intergate.bc.ca
What do you call a treatment that has a 95% failure rate? You don't call
it a cure! 95% of all diets end in failure. It is not a matter of just
putting down the Ho-Ho's.
Just my humble opinion,
The previous comment about diets ending in failure is worth a few comments.
DIETS SHOULD NOT END.
A diet is a lifestyle choice, not a temporary choice.
If people would eat less fried foods, cheese, creams and of course sugar
and salt, positive changes would be noticed. Yes, quit smoking & cut way
down on the caffeine,
it CAN be done, I DID!!!
Increase the amount of water, fruit & vegetable intake (it's important to
eat raw veggies too), and of course exercise.
Everyone is different, which makes it harder for some than others to change
their
eating habits for good. We all get use to cheating daily, and it comes to
the point of cheating being our normal diet. WE ARE ALL STRONGER THAN WE
THINK, and we have the
power to change IF WE REALLY WANT IT. Think of it as day to day. Little
goals are much more successful to acheive than always looking at the so
called impossible end result -
"I'll never acheive that." If you believe the negative, there's a good
chance any effort would be futile.
Consider all the hormones that are put in our dairy and meats. Think about
the damage
this is doing inside our bodies that we CAN'T see. It is important to be
aware of how our foods can harm us just as much as the weight it makes us
gain. Our food may look the same, but it has changed.
I know a lot of people can help themselves if they are unhappy about their
weight.
It just takes some self disipline, common sense, and support from family &
friends.
No flames please, this is a POSITIVE statement that we have all heard
before. I'm not saying
a proper diet is easy to start, it's NOT, although it does eventually get
easier. I am saying that many people who think there are no diets that
work, are not being honest with themselves. There is a light at the end of
the tunnel if you really believe it.
As for Allison Sweeny, she is a little overweight, and happens to have a
plump face. I don't think her weight is putting her in danger, but often a
young overweight person will end up as an older very overweight person.
Not always, but often.
Sailor
Captain
> I just have one question How do you know Allison is a little overweight?
> Do you know her excat weight , height , and body frame? Do youn also know
> what hercourt weight should be? Only a doctor could say if she is
> overweight or not.
>
>
> : Sailor
> : *A positive message for a positive future*
"Hey" Sailor, thats more than one question.
> --
>
--
Captain
e-mail...Captain@Bconnex.net
Garlic Peel
In article <3394d288...@news.mindspring.com>,
<icebr...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>gar...@news.netgate.net (Garlic Peel) wrote:
>>It isn't always a "choice", either. Some heavy folks and some very thin
>>folks, are not that way by choice, but by some quirk of metabolism or
>>genetics, or some other factor.
>
>at those who have control over their body weight. I can't write
No, I"m myth-busting, and you've bought into many of them, too.
>not people who are chained to their weight by genetics, which is rare.
Do you have any conclusive proof of how rare it is or is not? Probably
not, becuase I'm not sure medical science does, either. Weight,
metabolism, etc. are still mysterious to a great degree.
>Most people, if they'd put down the ho-ho's and the ding dongs would
>lose a couple of pounds.
You're now perpetuating the same myth I was trying to decry. I started
out as a large-framed, but normal weight person. I went on birth control
pills, and when I went of, at age 25, I gained 1/3 of my (normal)
starting weight over the next 6 months. Rapidly and with no change to my
eating habits or behaviour. I currently am at the same, (over)weight,
and eat less than most people I know who weigh less. I lost weight my
entire pregnancy, but gained it back again quickly while breast-feeding.
Again, not changing my eating habits much at all. I do know that I get
less exercize, particularly in the last 5 years, than I used to, but the
weight gain happened during a time when my exercize level had not changed.
Explain to me how ho-ho's and ding dongs were the cause.
>>There is a pervasive set of mythologies about fat people that don't seem
>>to exist about thin ones- that fat people eat all the time, never
>>exercize, are lazy, are stupid, don't care about how they look.
>
>The *majority* of fat people are lazy when it comes to proper eating,
>and exercise. If they ate right, and exercised 30 minutes a day, they
>would'nt be fat.
Or, they might, and would just be in better shape. One could postulate
that very thin people must be lazy about exercize, too, or they would
have some muscle development.
>There *are* stereotypes about thin people i.e. he/she must be on
>drugs; she must binge and purge; smoking is the only way that he/she
>stays thin. When I think back on all the comments about Kristin
>Alfonso's weight, the word most associated with her is "ANOREXIC".
Ok, there are bad stereotypes about both. *HOwever*, most media
attention and approval goes to the thin person. Why is this? It
certainly isn't particularly healthier to be thin. And I suspect many of
the KA comments have come because she hasn't always been as thin as she
is currently (and some of us, myself included, preferred her before).
>Kristin has reshaped her image. Does she use tummy tuck to look so
>slim or does she just eat right and have good eating habits? I've no
Personaly, I think it's the chain smoking, and the fact that she
reportedly doesn't eat for days at a time. I wouldn't call either a
particularly healthy choice.
>>The
>>media, and popular culture, support thinness *far* over fatness, neither
>>of which is a good thing. There is a place for every size and shape of
>>person, just as there is for every colour and belief and preference.
>
>I'm glad you mentioned this above. I don't want to FIGHT, but it
>would be nice to chew the fat or dig in our claws for a spell or two.
My point has never been to fight with you, or anyone, but to try to
destroy stereotypes, prejudices and provide a clue here and there. Any
adversarial tone you've sensed is probably my frustration with same.
>you've just thrown the gauntlet. True, there is a place for fat
>people, but not at all times should that place be equal to the place
>for thin people. There's nothing inherently wrong or evil with fat
>people, but I would'nt want to see an fat person modeling bathing
>suits.
That's your taste. I know a lot of folks who would rather see fat people
than thin ones (and boy, do some other people think *that's* sick...).
I'd rather see a healthy looking body with a few extra pounds than a
super-skinny, pokey boned swimsuit model. And I'd submit that it's as
wrong minded to say the place for fat people but not necessarly should it
be equal to thin people is as wrong minded as to say the same about
Asian people, or left-handed people, or gay people.
>How many fat people won an Olympic Gold medal in swimiming at the
>Atlanta Olympics?
>How many fat people were in the equestrian event at the Olympics?
>How many fat people were in the bicycle race at the Olympics?
Those are specific sports that require a certain body type. There are
plenty of fat NFL linebackers, baseball players and sumo wrestlers.
> Fat is not healthy and I won't let you argue that it is, if that's
>what you intended. Though I don't think that's what you meant.
Healthy how? I'm overweight, and I get sick *far* less often than my
thin friend. I also have more stamina, more energy and get tired and
run-down far less often. 'Splain how that works? At my most recent
doctor's appointment, the doctor pronounced me "disgustingly healthy",
and had no suggestions for me, *including* that I lose weight. My BP and
pulse rate are low normal; really, all I need to do is get out walking
more often than I am, to keep my current health as I get older. And
that's just a preference of mine.
>which was about the time Allison said she saw the messages. People
>like Wendee and Cathee are lost causes because at this point in their
>life, they know right from wrong. Either their parents poorly raised
But people like you are scary, too, because you seem to truly believe in
some negative and unhealthy stereotypes. Sizeism, no matter how
rationally packaged, is a prejudice,just like sexism and bigotry. And
just as ugly.
>>(Obviously, Reilly's fat is between his ears :^)
>
>Hey, I thought there was nothing wrong with fat?
There isn't, if it's in the right places. Having it where brain-matter
should be is sort of a Bad Thing.
TTFN,
Garlic
(learning to love my body, even though the media says I'm not supposed to)
(and beyond that, fucking scared to death hearing normal sized, healthy
young girls worrying about being "fat"!)
icebr...@mindspring.com
gar...@news.netgate.net (Garlic Peel) wrote:
>You're now perpetuating the same myth I was trying to decry. I started
>out as a large-framed, but normal weight person. I went on birth control
>pills, and when I went of, at age 25, I gained 1/3 of my (normal)
>starting weight over the next 6 months. Rapidly and with no change to my
>eating habits or behaviour. I currently am at the same, (over)weight,
>and eat less than most people I know who weigh less. I lost weight my
>entire pregnancy, but gained it back again quickly while breast-feeding.
>Again, not changing my eating habits much at all. I do know that I get
>less exercize, particularly in the last 5 years, than I used to, but the
>weight gain happened during a time when my exercize level had not changed.
>Explain to me how ho-ho's and ding dongs were the cause.
Garlic, I-ain't-gonna-fall-for-it. Check ANY of my posts and tell me
where I said ALL fat people are that way because they are lazy slobs
or are slaves to ding dongs and ho-ho's. All you're trying to do is
destroy proven scientific data because you happen to be an exception
to a general rule.
> One could postulate
>that very thin people must be lazy about exercize, too, or they would
>have some muscle development.
I agree wholeheartedly.
>
>Ok, there are bad stereotypes about both. *HOwever*, most media
>attention and approval goes to the thin person. Why is this? It
>certainly isn't particularly healthier to be thin.
That's your opinion. But it's not a fact. Furthermore, what is
"thin"? I'm thin compared to Marlon Brando, but i'm fat standing next
to, ummm, David Chokochi(Baywatch?). Thtere is nothing wrong with
being thin if you are not starving your body of vital proteins and
nutrients in order to get a certain look.
> And I'd submit that it's as
>wrong minded to say the place for fat people but not necessarly should it
>be equal to thin people is as wrong minded as to say the same about
>Asian people, or left-handed people, or gay people.
Now this in interesting. Berry, berry interesting. You're comparing
sexuality(which you more than likely consider hereditary) to weight
control. There is NO proof whatsoever that people are born fat. If
that was the case, how could millions of people have lost so much
weight in programs like Richard Simmons, Jenny Craig or Weight
Watchers? For the vast majority of Americans and their children, being
obesely fat is a matter of poor nutrition and no exercise.
Again, I must clarify what fat is. It's relative. One can have fat on
them, without embodying what people traditionally think of when the
word fat is used. When I say that someone is fat, i'm talking
roseanne/Marlon Brando size fat. Allison Sweeney has some fat on her,
but at no time have I or you or Donna B or any of the regulars ever
accused her of being "fat". So, you can have fat on you with out being
fat. Comprende?
>Healthy how? I'm overweight, and I get sick *far* less often than my
>thin friend. I also have more stamina, more energy and get tired and
>run-down far less often. 'Splain how that works? At my most recent
>doctor's appointment, the doctor pronounced me "disgustingly healthy",
>and had no suggestions for me, *including* that I lose weight. My BP and
>pulse rate are low normal; really, all I need to do is get out walking
>more often than I am, to keep my current health as I get older. And
>that's just a preference of mine.
Whatever. You know, you remind me of Shannon Faulkner, the woman that
tried to join the Citadel. Basically,she tried to shove her personal
beliefs on millions of men and women who did not want her there. In
order to right all the wrongs inflicted on womanhood, she decided to
change all the rules just to fit her one belief. In essence, you've
done the same. By virtue of your supposedly good health, while being
overweight as you maintain, you somehow feel that now all rules,
prescriptions and doctor recommendations about trying to stay healthy
and fit should be thrown out the window. Because Mrs. Garlic Peel has
shown the world that one need not be in good, fit physical shape to
have a healthy satisfying life.
I can just see it now....Richard Simmons line of foods, tapes, and
exercise wear goes out of business. Jenny Craig, Weight Watchers,
Ultra Slim Fast, Bally's, Sportslife, Gold's Gym, Healthy Choice
Dinner Company, etc...all go bankrupt because one woman, on the face
of this Earth proved that you could be oveweight and not croak.
McDonalds stock will skyrocket. Shares in pig's feet, chitlins and
pork rines will quadruple. All because, out of 2.5 billion women on
Earth, one of them managed to beat the odds, and show the Surgeon
General and every other health practitioner worth his/her salt that
they were wrong.
The bullish marker will scare off investors in all aspects of the
fitness industry, causing a market wide panic. The Dow will drop 600
points, stockbrokers will commit suicide and millions and millions of
employees in health related fields will be terminated. The econonmy
will go into a recession, and the price of fuel will go up. America's
enemies will see she has become weak, and threaten the borders of
other countries, seeing as how America is too poor to defend the
Middle East or Europe. President Clinton and her husband will turn on
each other. He'll seek comfort in the skirts of other women. Somebody
stttttttopppp me. I'm SSSSSSSSSSSmooookin!!!
>
>But people like you are scary, too, because you seem to truly believe in
>some negative and unhealthy stereotypes. Sizeism, no matter how
>rationally packaged, is a prejudice,just like sexism and bigotry. And
>just as ugly.
Sizeism? Stop it. I 'm laughing too hard.:)
What you're really saying, is that because I don't agree with you
point by point, line by line, i'm scary and a "sizeist". Last summer,
when I refused to go along with your every point about homosexuality
and genetics, I got the exact same speech you just gave. You know, the
whole thing about " no matter how rationally packaged, is a
prejudice". Just fill in the blank. You've got the standard speech
laid out for any and every topic.
>
>TTFN,
>Garlic
>(learning to love my body, even though the media says I'm not supposed to)
You know, that's just typical FEMINAZIST BULL . Name me one time a
media outlet has said "women, you should 'nt be comfortable with
yourself if you are overweight". Where is it? Show me the magazine,
the tv clip, the newpaper article. Where where where? You can't, cuz
it does'nt exist. The truth is, feminists like you use the hard work
and good looks and trim fit of many actresses and models to make
points. You trash them and their efforts in order to build yourself
up. I've seen it on this ng already, and already I TRASHED that
stupid logic.
icebr...@mindspring.com
tsc...@intergate.bc.ca wrote:
>A diet is a lifestyle choice, not a temporary choice.
>If people would eat less fried foods, cheese, creams and of course sugar
>and salt, positive changes would be noticed. Yes, quit smoking & cut way
>down on the caffeine,
>it CAN be done, I DID!!!
>Increase the amount of water, fruit & vegetable intake (it's important to
>eat raw veggies too), and of course exercise.
>Everyone is different, which makes it harder for some than others to change
>their
>eating habits for good.
RIGHT ON!!!! You go boy!
The truth is, some women want to tear others down who've lost weight
because they are too lazy or sorry to do it themselves. When I lost 60
lbs, people (FAT people) started telling me I was too thin. That I
was'nt healthy, blah blah blah. It's jealousy pure and simple. It's
easier to tear down the progress of others instead of doing it for
yourself.
icebr...@mindspring.com
chjo...@freenet.columbus.oh.us (Charlotte Johnson) wrote:
> I just have one question How do you know Allison is a little overweight?
> Do you know her excat weight , height , and body frame? Do youn also know
> what hercourt weight should be?
Ummm, that was three questions.
>Only a doctor could say if she is
>overweight or not.
Are you a doctor? No I did'nt think so. In that case, who are you to
say that she's not overweight?
Do I need to be a certified astronomer to tell you when the moon is
full? Do I need to be a botanist to identify a venus fly trap? Some
things you just know.
Quite often, the clothing that Sammi wears reveals a body that has a
layer of fat on it. Thought it's really none of your business, I
actually prefer Allison to every other woman on the show but Krista
Allen, my little sweetie pie. But to deny that she's got some baby
fat, or whatever on her is ludicrous. An ostrich sticking it's head in
the sand does not make the world go away.
Pam Smith
I couldn't agree more. While it's fun to read this ng and trash the
characters, a lot of the comments I've read have made me feel bad for
the actors themselves....the negative comments on physical attributes
such Lucas' teeth or Sami's weight., for example. I'd LOVE to post
pics of the people who make these cruel statements just to turn the
tables and let 'em have a dose of their own medicine -- nobody's
perfect
I agree! Personally, I love hating Sami and
Kristen...their portrayers do such a wonderful job
of making them so nasty! Without this talent
who'd care! And, I've watched Alison "grow up"
over the past several years. I think she's become
a beautiful young woman. Perhaps people who
attact her (or any character's) physical
attributes is because of the nasty character they
play. If you look at ALISON...she's beautiful.
If you look at SAMI...she boarders on the edge of
repulsive! The same can be said of most actors
Pam
Pam Smith
>posts they have read and by rumors that have been spread. Seems we hold a
>good deal of power. We have the power to help and support, or the power to
>ruin and cause pain. I wish everyone would think before they post, put
>themselves in the other guys shoes. Actors have feelings just like you do.
I couldn't agree more. While it's fun to read this ng and trash the
characters, a lot of the comments I've read have made me feel bad for
the actors themselves....the negative comments on physical attributes
such Lucas' teeth or Sami's weight., for example. I'd LOVE to post
pics of the people who make these cruel statements just to turn the
tables and let 'em have a dose of their own medicine -- nobody's
perfect.
OOPS!
]
Sorry! I meant to post that to the group! :-)
Lisa Z. Longoria
lisa.z here...
I wasn't gonna get into the middle of this, but damn, you two are like a couple
of pit bulls that have gotten their teeth into yet another argument. Michael, I
know from your posts that you were once overweight and have managed to
lose a significant amount of that weight. You are to be lauded for
accomplishing what you set out to do. However, I see such disgust in your
prose for those who, for whatever reason, don't measure up to your standard
of what a human body "should" look like. I'll refrain from commenting on
the psychological implications and just respond to what has been said...
(comments interspersed in the quoted text)
icebr...@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> gar...@news.netgate.net (Garlic Peel) wrote:
>
> >You're now perpetuating the same myth I was trying to decry. I started
> >out as a large-framed, but normal weight person. I went on birth control
> >pills, and when I went of, at age 25, I gained 1/3 of my (normal)
> >starting weight over the next 6 months. Rapidly and with no change to my
> >eating habits or behaviour. I currently am at the same, (over)weight,
> >and eat less than most people I know who weigh less. I lost weight my
> >entire pregnancy, but gained it back again quickly while breast-feeding.
> >Again, not changing my eating habits much at all. I do know that I get
> >less exercize, particularly in the last 5 years, than I used to, but the
> >weight gain happened during a time when my exercize level had not changed.
> >Explain to me how ho-ho's and ding dongs were the cause.
>
> Garlic, I-ain't-gonna-fall-for-it. Check ANY of my posts and tell me
> where I said ALL fat people are that way because they are lazy slobs
> or are slaves to ding dongs and ho-ho's. All you're trying to do is
> destroy proven scientific data because you happen to be an exception
> to a general rule.
Are you CERTAIN about that general rule? What role do hormones play in
the way our bodies change? How can YOU know? Doctors don't even know
for sure.
I, like Garlic, suffer from hormone-related weight gain. My weight gain came
as I stopped taking the pill--from 120 to 160 in six weeks... with NO change in
eating or exercise habits. As I found out later, I have a tumor on my pituitary
gland that fluctuates in activity--screwing up my hormones. As the activity
goes up, so does my weight--regardless of what I eat. When I stopped taking
the pill, the tumor fired up big time, and I've been fighting my weight ever
since (4 years now). This has been tough on me because I was bone-thin for
the first 30 years of my life.
--big snip--
> By virtue of your supposedly good health, while being
> overweight as you maintain, you somehow feel that now all rules,
> prescriptions and doctor recommendations about trying to stay healthy
> and fit should be thrown out the window.
Who says doctors are all-knowing and all-powerful? Remember that in the
50's doctors gave thalidomide to pregnant women to ease their morning
sickness, with terrible results. Remember that pregnant women were given
DES to prevent miscarriages, also with terrible results to their children. At the
time, it was "the thing to do" in medical practice. We now see that both of
these practices were harmful. Doctors don't know everything--not about drugs
and their effect on the body, about how the body functions, nor about their
patients. It is up to each individual to make their own health choices based on
doctor "recommendations" and their knowledge of their own body.
> Because Mrs. Garlic Peel has
> shown the world that one need not be in good, fit physical shape to
> have a healthy satisfying life.
And I'm assuming that you and Garlic are close, personal friends? Obviously,
you must be to know that she's not in good physical shape.
> >
> >But people like you are scary, too, because you seem to truly believe in
> >some negative and unhealthy stereotypes. Sizeism, no matter how
> >rationally packaged, is a prejudice,just like sexism and bigotry. And
> >just as ugly.
>
> Sizeism? Stop it. I 'm laughing too hard.:)
> What you're really saying, is that because I don't agree with you
> point by point, line by line, i'm scary and a "sizeist". Last summer,
> when I refused to go along with your every point about homosexuality
> and genetics, I got the exact same speech you just gave. You know, the
> whole thing about " no matter how rationally packaged, is a
> prejudice". Just fill in the blank. You've got the standard speech
> laid out for any and every topic.
Would that standard speech be respect for the choices of others? Or maybe the
right of each individual to determine how to live their life? Or treating others
with dignity, whatever their circumstance? Hmmm... You could be right.
Garlic may well have a standard speech for just about any topic.
> >TTFN,
> >Garlic
> >(learning to love my body, even though the media says I'm not supposed to)
>
> You know, that's just typical FEMINAZIST BULL . Name me one time a
> media outlet has said "women, you should 'nt be comfortable with
> yourself if you are overweight". Where is it? Show me the magazine,
> the tv clip, the newpaper article. Where where where? You can't, cuz
> it does'nt exist.
Ever actually seen UV radiation? Does that mean it doesn't exist? that it can't
hurt you? We may not see the actual agent, but we know it exists by the effect
it has.
No one has to directly say that overweight is less desirable. The messages are
all around us. Where did you get your attitude about body shape? Did
someone tell you day after day while you were a child that fat is ugly? Or did
you form that opinion over the course of your life based on daily observations
and influences? What was the origin of those influences? Your family? The
media? How many overweight women do you see on TV or in print? How
many men? (By overweight, I mean anything more than skeletally thin.)
> The truth is, feminists like you use the hard work
> and good looks and trim fit of many actresses and models to make
> points. You trash them and their efforts in order to build yourself
> up. I've seen it on this ng already, and already I TRASHED that
> stupid logic.
>
> Icebreaker
I don't begrudge any thin woman her shape, although these days, I miss being
thin. I miss being able to walk into almost any store and buy clothes that fit
well (that don't cost a lot). Being as you're male, I would guess you don't shop
much for women's clothes. You wouldn't know how hard it is to find nice
looking clothing when you're a size 18 or 20. Tailored slacks at a reasonable
cost are tough to find. However, I find lots of elastic-waist, pull-on type
pants--which seem to be made to make your hips and butt look even bigger
than they are. It seems once you pass a size 14 or so, clothing manufacturers
assume you want to dress in tents because that's about all you find.
To quote from one of your earlier posts:
> The *majority* of fat people are lazy when it comes to proper eating,
> and exercise. If they ate right, and exercised 30 minutes a day, they
> would'nt be fat.
I would love to be thin again. But I don't know when or if that will be
possible. I'm carrying 50-60 pounds that don't want to go. I don't sit on my
lazy butt and eat sweets--no ding dongs, ho hos, ice cream, cookies, candy in
my daily diet. I don't crave them. I don't want them. I'm very conscious of
fat in foods. I try to eat as balanced a diet as I can. I eat very little of anything,
and yet I continue to gain weight. So your assertion that eating less or getting
rid of the sweets and fats will solve the problem doesn't ring true.
Again, I'm glad you lost the weight you wanted to lose. Try to have some
empathy for those who, for whatever reason, cannot accomplish what you
have.
lisa.z
TresBonBon
<<<Icebreaker said:
Again, I must clarify what fat is. It's relative. One can have fat on
them, without embodying what people traditionally think of when the
word fat is used. When I say that someone is fat, i'm talking
roseanne/Marlon Brando size fat. Allison Sweeney has some fat on her,
but at no time have I or you or Donna B or any of the regulars ever
accused her of being "fat". So, you can have fat on you with out being
fat. Comprende?>>>
Excuse me? Do you recall, in the words of Susan, many, many, many, many,
many, posts, not too long ago, entitled "Sami Is A Fat Pig"? I wonder who
wrote them?
And another thing! EVERYBODY has "fat" on them. Even Kristin Alphonso.
You can't exist without fat. Now get down off your soap box and get with
the program called "real life" bucko!
If Allison Sweeney is FAT, I'm the sultan of Brunei!
Bonbon (sick and tired of everybody trying to tell everybody else
what they should look like)
icebr...@mindspring.com
tresb...@aol.com (TresBonBon) wrote:
><<<Icebreaker said:
>
>Again, I must clarify what fat is. It's relative. One can have fat on
>them, without embodying what people traditionally think of when the
>word fat is used. When I say that someone is fat, i'm talking
>roseanne/Marlon Brando size fat. Allison Sweeney has some fat on her,
>but at no time have I or you or Donna B or any of the regulars ever
>accused her of being "fat". So, you can have fat on you with out being
>fat. Comprende?>>>
>
>Excuse me? Do you recall, in the words of Susan, many, many, many, many,
>many, posts, not too long ago, entitled "Sami Is A Fat Pig"? I wonder who
>wrote them?
>
What's your problem Bon Bon? Is your wig stapped on too tight or
something? I said <<< at no time have I or you or Donna B or any of
the regulars ever accused her of being "fat" >>> REGULARS Bon Bon.
Let me spell it slowly for you so you can read it R-E-G-U-L-A-R-S.
Wendee and Cathee were not regulars. They were casual trolls, who
after finally being ignored for a good long while, got bored and left.
No regular would ever say such things about Allison. Regulars have a
modicum of style and class.
>And another thing! EVERYBODY has "fat" on them. Even Kristin Alphonso.
>You can't exist without fat. Now get down off your soap box and get with
>the program called "real life" bucko!
>If Allison Sweeney is FAT, I'm the sultan of Brunei!
You know, this sentence that you're reading right now was not the
original sentence I put in. After careful thought, I decided one
putdown against you was enough. I'm not going to go low like you have.
Whenver you want to talk about what i'm actually saying instead of the
words you're trying to force in my mouth, we'll talk .Until then,
leave me alone.
icebr...@mindspring.com
"Lisa Z. Longoria" <lis...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
> However, I see such disgust in your
>prose for those who, for whatever reason, don't measure up to your standard
>of what a human body "should" look like.
Where have I said that "fat" is disgusting? Name one sentence, or one
word of a sentence where i've said that. The truth is just the
opposite. I've been a fairly big proponent in favor of Ms. Sweeny the
way she is now. What I seem to be getting from you women is jealousy.
I aplogize if i'm wrong about you in particular (I did read your whole
post), but jealousy just seems to come out of many of these posts.
>Are you CERTAIN about that general rule? What role do hormones play in
>the way our bodies change? How can YOU know? Doctors don't even know
>for sure.
Men and women do lose weight a bit differently. That 's why I used to
adjust my advice to people when they asked me what my "secret" was for
losing weight. It was always "DIET and EXERCISE". For women, i'm
guessing, they may need to do more of both because their metabolism is
slower than a man's. In general. But no body here can honestly argue
that FAT is healthy, because it's not. To be grossly overweight is not
healthy.
More to the point: I think some of the die-hard feminists on this ng
are rallying around Allison to make her some sort of poster child for
fat people. It's wrong. She's not "FAT", and neither is she a martyr
for the fat/thin cause.
IN fact, this discussion is'nt even related to Allison anymore. Why?
Cuz we're discussing fat and fat issues and Allison's not fat.
Self esteem? Those dweebs Wendee and Cathee and a few other choice
trolls at one time tried to tie in Ms. Sweeny's self worth to her
weight, but real people are more savvy than that. I hope Allison knows
there are better people than those nitwits out there who admire her
and her work.
>
>And I'm assuming that you and Garlic are close, personal friends? Obviously,
>you must be to know that she's not in good physical shape.
>
"Close personal friends?" We're much more than that. The woman can
barely keep her hands off me:) Even BonBon used to have a little ol'
crush on me. But I can understand. I am all that you know.
>Ever actually seen UV radiation? Does that mean it doesn't exist? that it can't
>hurt you? We may not see the actual agent, but we know it exists by the effect
>it has.
Apples and oranges. When girls give in to anorexia, it's not about
looking good or staying thin or being in shape. It's about self esteem
and other issues. The diet, or lack of food, is a symptom of a larger
problem.
>No one has to directly say that overweight is less desirable. The messages are
>all around us. Where did you get your attitude about body shape?
I got tired of going to bed at night and wheezing because my stomach
had turned into a spare tire. I got tired of taking a leak at the
urinal and not being able to see my, well, you know what (insert joke-
I know you all will)
>> Did
>someone tell you day after day while you were a child that fat is ugly?
I wasn't fat as a child.
> Or did
>you form that opinion over the course of your life based on daily observations
>and influences? What was the origin of those influences?
It was really when I started to notice that I could find whip cream
that was 100 percent fat. I could'nt find potato chips, cakes,
cookies, hamburgers, hot dogs, etc... that were 100percent fat. All I
could find were low calorie, or low fat foods. Then a little bell went
off in my head: Hey, fat's not good for you Michael. Let's do
something about it"!
Having been 60 lbs. overweight, I NEVER EVER put someone else down
for not doing what I did. It will never happen. I have to much empathy
for people who are overweight.
eri...@worldnet.att.net
PM Watch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
95% of all diets end in failure.
(snip)
Destructive dieting is less healthy than maintaining a stable weight
that is above normal.
<<<<<<<<<<
Regarding the first comment:
The reason most diets end in failure is because most diets are poorly
designed and are too radical. Even if the diet is sensible, suddenly
having a healthy diet when one is not used to that sort of discipline
is hard work and many people do not want to work that hard when it
comes to food.
Regarding the second comment, it doesn't have to be an either/or
situation, either you destructively diet or you are above normal in
weight. There is such a thing as changing a bad diet to a good one
gradually and sensibly and then losing the weight in a healthy time
frame.
Amy
tsc...@intergate.bc.ca
> Do I need to be a certified astronomer to tell you when the moon is
> full? Do I need to be a botanist to identify a venus fly trap? Some
> things you just know.
h-e-l-l-o
You got that right! I don't have to be a doctor to see that someone appears to
be a little overweight. I did say in my other post that this is my humble
opinion.
But to deny that she's got some baby fat, or whatever on her is ludicrous.
> Icebreaker
> "007 Forever"
> 'Tomorrow Never Dies' news and more at:
> "http://members.tripod.com/~mdk/Bond18.html"
BIG DEAL, before I lost my baby fat, I looked a bit plump too - most people do.
Anyway, weight has NOTHING to do if I'm a fan or not of that person.
Sailor
*15 year fan of DOOL*
ck...@erinet.com
>
> >not people who are chained to their weight by genetics, which is rare.
>
> Do you have any conclusive proof of how rare it is or is not? Probably
> not, becuase I'm not sure medical science does, either. Weight,
> metabolism, etc. are still mysterious to a great degree.
>
If I may jump in here; medical science has discovered that some people are
lacking an enzyme that acts as a natural appetite suppressant. This enzyme in
effect 'tells' the brain that the stomach is full. Lack of this enzyme seems
to be hereditary, and explains why some people will keep eating and eating even
when they are full. If this enzyme is introduced into the person's body, the
person will quit eating and quit having cravings that can be worse than drug,
alcohol, or nicotine cravings. (I know nicotine's a drug, but I meant drugs
like crack and weed.)
My own doctor examined the research on this, and prescribed the enzyme for
me. My ancestors have always had a weight problem, even before fast food,
grease, and chocolate were so easily obtainable. I did lose weight, my
cholesterol and blood pressure went down, I started running and bike-riding,
and I lose my cravings. In fact, chocolate and candy bars gross me out now.
And this from a person who could inhale those damn Cadbury Easter eggs like
crazy. I can't stand them now.
Sorry to go on and on here, but I did want to share what had happened to me.
Cheryl 8-)
CKais 8-)
"We wear the mask that grins and lies,
It shades our cheeks and hides our eyes..."
P.L. Dunbar
icebr...@mindspring.com
ut...@freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Thomas M. Freeman) wrote:
>
>For someone to say that people make "choices" for what size their
>body is, lacks a comprehensive understanding ofweight issues. Fact
>is, Fat prejudice is far more pervasive that comments about thin
>people. Who does Madison Avenue emulate? Why are so many girls
>starving themselves to death?
Oh get REAL! Girls don't starve themselves to look thin and good.
That's hogwash. And yes, I do know from personal experience. Karen
Carpenter did'nt starve herself because she thought the "i'm a refugee
fleeing from my African homeland" look was hot. She starved herself to
death because she hated herself. The starvation was a SYMPTOM. Do you
get that? A SYMPTOM of other issues going on in her life.
> Not because "thin prejudice" is
>common place honey. The *real* issue should be that body shape
>and size is a personal space issue, and IMHO, making derisive
>comments is a violation of someone's personal sphere.
Whatever.
icebr...@mindspring.com
ut...@freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Thomas M. Freeman) wrote:
>
>I should have known it was a guy writing that stuff. Well Michael,
>I exercise, and I never eat candy and try to stay away from high-fat
>foods, and after 30 months, I am down between 70 and 80 lbs from
>a starting weight of 320. Now I around 240-250. And I exercise
>5 days a week. And you know what? I *am* healthy. My body is
>developing muscles, my pulse was just checked and is "excellent"
>112 over 80, and my cholestoral is LOW. I think I am doing
>great, and if I get down to 200, that's fine, but if I don't,
>that's fine too. Our bodies are our own,
Then why are you telling me all this junk about yourself? You think
i'm impressed? If your weight is such a personal private issue, why in
the name of all things sacred and holy are you blaring it out all over
the Net?
> and sanctimonious
>judgments about large people says little about the people being
>judge, but says volumes about thepeople making comments.
Oh, get off the cross Tom. Other people need the wood. It's fine for
all these militant feminists and their compatriots(you) to ride
Kristin Alfonso for being "too thin". but Lord don't nobody bettuh say
nuttin bad about Ms. Sweeny! or Missus Garlic will have a talkin' to
with 'em.
Why don't you let people who want to lose weight lose it without you
butting your nose into their private lives? Leave us ex-fat people
alone.
>
>Tom
>
>"Be sure brain is engaged before putting mouth into gear."
icebr...@mindspring.com
ut...@freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Thomas M. Freeman) wrote:
>
>Whoever Icebreaker is, the perpetuation of your myths isn't melting
>any Ice from your heart. You sound just like a KKK member talking
>about Black people. You, are a thin supremacist.
>
>Prejudice is something America can do without
>
Do you read all the posts, or just a handful Tom? Because i've written
so much good and positive stuff about Allison, that you'd have to be
either blind or just plain ignorant to state what you did above. I
know you're not blind. Hmmmmm.....
PM Watch
In article <33955d2...@news.mindspring.com>,
icebr...@mindspring.com writes:
>
>pmw...@aol.com (PM Watch) wrote:
>
>>
>>What do you call a treatment that has a 95% failure rate? You don't
>>call it a cure! 95% of all diets end in failure. It is not a matter of
>>just putting down the Ho-Ho's.
>>(snipped)
>
>The problem you are describing is probably a person who goes on >such a
strict diet, that when the "come off" the diet, and start eating
>again, they can't control themselves, go buck wild, and gain it all
>back.
No I'm talking about the very real statistics that indicate that one
year after starting any type of weight reduction program 95% of the
participants have regained the weight they lost. Simple solutions
are easy to proscribe but if they don't work they can't really be called
solutions.
>>>
>>>The *majority* of fat people are lazy when it comes to proper
>>>eating, and exercise. If they ate right, and exercised 30 minutes
>>>a day, they would'nt be fat.
>>
>>No they would be healthier overweight people.
>>(snipped)
>
>That makes no sense. Health is relative from one person to the next,
>but you CANNOT be at your ultimate peak in fitness and shape and >be
overweight.
I didn't know there was a mandate that every human on the face of the
earth be at their ultimate peak in fitness.
>>
>>>How many fat people won an Olympic Gold medal in swimiming (more
Olympic examples snipped)
>>
>>Alison Sweeney is in the height/weight ratio of the athletes you've
>>mentioned yet she has been subjected to countless fat pig >>comments
these last years.
>>
>
>Allison is not in the height/weight ratio that I mentioned above. If
>she'd been trying to perform in gymastics, or diving, her coaches
>would've told her to drop 15 pounds. (snipped)
>
Let's not talk about gymnastics, where at least one world class athlete
has died due to anorexia.
If you put the swimming, diving or equestrian women, on the Days
set next to Kristian or Eileen, they would be the chubbiest people
in the room. This is not to say they are fat. This is to say that
actresses today must be extremely thin, to not be targeted as fat.
(discriptions of different large peopled sports - snipped)
>>
>>Different sports require different body types.
>
>There are no fat men in the NBA.
The reference to the NBA was to height not weight. But watching the
finals tonight I noticed that Brian Williams of the Bulls is overweight.
As is another player on the team. I didn't catch the name. Baseball
is full of overweight athletes.
(NFL stuff - snipped)
>
>>>
>>Destructive dieting is less healthy than maintaining a stable weight
>>that is above normal.
>
>See, there you go with that same old rhetoric that I hear women
>use to justify why fat people should be considered as healthy "thin"
>people. NOBODY was talking about destructive dieting.
Repeated unsuccessful dieting is destructive. Regular exercise and
a healthy diet is the way to go. If you make that lifestyle change, you
will get thinner, but even if you exercise and eat right you may not end
up at the perfect weight on the insurance charts. Should you be
judged a failure because you haven't reached someone else's ideal?
Does this make you unacceptable?
(snipped)
>What would be wrong with Allison, in theory, cutting the fat out
>of her diet, and exercising on a treadmill and with weights 45 minutes
>a day? Let's say she does that and loses 15 pound in 3 months. Is >that
destructive dieting?
>
Well who's to say that she doesn't already do the that. And if she
doesn't, there is no reason for her to start. She is currently
maintaining
a healthy, normal weight.
>Gee, sometimes you women say this stuff, I feel, just so gool looking,
>slightly overweight girls like Allison WON'T lose the weight, and all
>y'all will feel better about yourselves. That is it, is'nt it? If
>Allison decided to drop 15 pounds, it might remind some of y'all that
>y'all could do it to.
>
My aren't we making generalizations and jumping to conclusions. And where
did this "you women" stuff come from?
>>
>>This is not nitpicking. You are perpetuating stereotypes and myths.
>>In doing so you make it more difficult for overweight people to live a
>>healthy happy life.
>
>
>This is rich. Really, really rich. You have no idea what i've overcome
>to get where I am today. 3 years ago Iwas bordering on the FAT >ZONE.
10 more pounds and I would've had to start going to fat >stores to get my
suits, pants and other clothes. I finally said enough
>is enough, and did something about it.
You're right I don't know where you came from, where you are today
nor where you're headed. It has no relevance to this discussion. I
am happy you have maintained a body weight you're content with. I
wish you all future success in that endeavor. It doesn't change the
fact that most people who try to lose weight fail in the long term. This
indicates to me that the solutions commonly proscribed for the
problem don't work, and perhaps we should look into other avenues.
> I've never criticized others who did'nt lose the same amount I did (60
>lbs), or those who are in better shape than I am. It's all relative to
>what a person can do.
You've never criticized others? Then what is this comment that you posted
June 4th 1997 on this NG?
"The *majority* of fat people are lazy when it comes to proper
eating, and exercise. If they ate right, and exercised 30 minutes
a day, they would'nt be fat."
Are you going to assert that this is not a criticism?
>The truth is, you're are perpetuating a newly formed and created
>"stereotype" that fat is healthy and acceptable. This is a trend that
>has been a knee jerk reaction to the so many women being caught up >in
anorexia nervosa. Well, i'll tell you something...anorexia nervosa
>is'nt a good thing, and neither is being FAT.
>
Given that being too thin or too fat is not healthy. Given that changing
that condition can often be very difficult and prone to multiple failures.
Do these people really need to be subjected to judgements on their
character ( "...*majority* of fat people are lazy...")? Or have
assumptions made about their health situations ("...slightly overweight
girls like Allison WON'T lose the weight...")? Or worst of all having
that condition used as a legitimate reason to be dispised (something that
you haven't done, but is the reason I originally started writing on this
subject)? Life can be difficult enough as it is. We all need all the
acceptance we can get.
PM Watch
icebr...@mindspring.com
pmw...@aol.com (PM Watch) wrote:
>
>No I'm talking about the very real statistics that indicate that one
>year after starting any type of weight reduction program 95% of the
>participants have regained the weight they lost. Simple solutions
>are easy to proscribe but if they don't work they can't really be called
>solutions.
So? If a woman drives her car off a cliff while putting on lipstick in
the mirror, should we all stop driving cars because she had one bad
experience? Is it the cars' fault that it went over the cliff?
The truth is that most of these people gain the weight back because
they stop doing what got them thinner in the first place. Keeping
weight off for many people, myself included, isn't a one time thing.
It is done with the long term in mind. I like to eat. Therefore,
keeping the pounds off will always be a struggle till the day I die,
or a thin pill is developed. I don't abuse alchoho. I've never touched
drugs. I've never even smoked a cigarette in my life. For me, my vice
is,was and always will be food. Please don't discount the value of my
experience simply because we're disagreeing on how we should be
looking at all this.
>You've never criticized others? Then what is this comment that you posted
>June 4th 1997 on this NG?
>
> "The *majority* of fat people are lazy when it comes to proper
> eating, and exercise. If they ate right, and exercised 30 minutes
> a day, they would'nt be fat."
>
>Are you going to assert that this is not a criticism?
Ummmmm, where's the fire? Where in that comment does it say anything
about *every* fat person being lazy? The overwhelming experience and
day to day contacts i've had with people indicate to me that people
who are !!!!FAT!!!!! are lazy about proper eating and exercise. I said
FAT, not overweight. I worked with a woman that insisted she needed
to go on a diet and lose 15 lbs by last April 29th. I said no you
don't. You look fine(big mistake-never,ever tell a person they look
fine). Well, she did'nt lose the weight, and she was doing it for all
the wrong reasons, and I kept telling her the proper way to lose it,
but she would'nt pay any attention. So, the more she used this form of
"dieting", the more she actually ate. She was using a combination of
diet pills, and qualified starvation. I say qualified, because she
could'nt get past 2. p..m without hauling out a three Musketeers or a
Twix. Anyway, she's not even overweight I told her. Firming and
toning was all she really needed to do if she wanted to work on
something. But she would'nt exercise.
>>
>
>Given that being too thin or too fat is not healthy. Given that changing
>that condition can often be very difficult and prone to multiple failures.
> Do these people really need to be subjected to judgements on their
>character ( "...*majority* of fat people are lazy...")?
Again, my comments are directed to people who have medical conditions.
They never were, and never will be. That's why I qualified my
statement by say *majority*. That excluded a segment of people with
medical conditions, but like most indepth and interesting topic on
this ng, if blacks, gays, Jews, transexuals, fur protesters, the
elderly, etc....dont get special recognition on hot button issues,
Garlic Peel will come blare her cyber whistle, the troops will fall in
line, and the assault will begin. How did my simple little post of
encouragement to Allison get this thread so heated, and homosexuality
get included? Odd, but it happened.
vera bodell
ENOUGH ALREADY!
Never measure anyone with your own personal yard stiick! Everyone is
unique. One set of rules DOES NOT apply to everyone.
**Vera**
v...@webtv.net
ve...@hotmail.com
DonnaB
On Fri, 06 Jun 1997 11:33:27 GMT, icebr...@mindspring.com wrote:
| pmw...@aol.com (PM Watch) wrote:
|
| >No I'm talking about the very real statistics that indicate that one
| >year after starting any type of weight reduction program 95% of the
| >participants have regained the weight they lost. Simple solutions
| >are easy to proscribe but if they don't work they can't really be called
| >solutions.
|
| So? If a woman drives her car off a cliff while putting on lipstick in
| the mirror, should we all stop driving cars because she had one bad
| experience? Is it the cars' fault that it went over the cliff?
|
| The truth is that most of these people gain the weight back because
| they stop doing what got them thinner in the first place. Keeping
| weight off for many people, myself included, isn't a one time thing.
| It is done with the long term in mind. I like to eat. Therefore,
| keeping the pounds off will always be a struggle till the day I die,
| or a thin pill is developed. I don't abuse alchoho. I've never touched
| drugs. I've never even smoked a cigarette in my life. For me, my vice
| is,was and always will be food. Please don't discount the value of my
| experience simply because we're disagreeing on how we should be
| looking at all this.
95% ... one woman/one car/one cliff, ???
| >You've never criticized others? Then what is this comment that you posted
| >June 4th 1997 on this NG?
| >
| > "The *majority* of fat people are lazy when it comes to proper
| > eating, and exercise. If they ate right, and exercised 30 minutes
| > a day, they would'nt be fat."
| >
| >Are you going to assert that this is not a criticism?
|
| Ummmmm, where's the fire? Where in that comment does it say anything
| about *every* fat person being lazy?
She didn't say you said all. She pointed out that you have been
critical. And, I might add that the statement she's using also shows
generalizing. There's no scientific evidence to even *suggest* that
the majority of "fat" people are lazy, etc. & to make such a statement
is in itself size-ist and a particular brand of bigotry.
| ... How did my simple little post of
| encouragement to Allison get this thread so heated, and homosexuality
| get included? Odd, but it happened.
See, if that's how you see it, then you have your answer. "What we
have here is a failure to communicate." - COOL HAND LUKE Sometimes
we have to all look to what we meant to say & compare it to what
people "heard".
Anyway, I've been trying to stay out of this fray, but I keep thinking
of the juxtaposition of this thread with watching Matthew Perry go
from healthy-looking (knowing that TV ads 15-20 lbs. visually) to
emaciated-looking & wondering if it was an eating disorder, a cocaine
habit, AIDS, other illness, etc. & realizing that we can now probably
add fen-fen "addiction" to that list of things to fret about. Don't
get me wrong, I fret with the best of them. I just don't need new
reasons. Got enough.
'RIP Curley, a West Highland White Terrier,
'formally Casey's Curley Lee, b. 10-1-82 at 4 ozs., d. 6-5-97,
'daughter of Casey (formally Edward's Raleigh-Anne),
'mother of WC (formally Curley's Wee Cavalier Lee) &
'best friend ever for almost 15 years to
'One of the RATS Donnas, Mouse Pushing Wacko,
GRITS & SWATCHer, DonnaB
TresBonBon
<<<Whoever Icebreaker is, the perpetuation of your myths isn't melting
any Ice from your heart. You sound just like a KKK member talking
about Black people. You, are a thin supremacist.
Prejudice is something America can do without
From: ut...@freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Thomas M. Freeman)>>>
Icebreaker sound suspiciously, to me at least, very much like Michael
Kersey. I'd bet money on it. Anyone else?
Bonbon
TresBonBon
<<< Even BonBon used to have a little ol'
crush on me. But I can understand. I am all that you know.>>>
It's Bonbon (with a small second B)
In your dreams, Bucko!
TresBonBon
Stop it! Please! There's not a single person out there that knows what's
best for everyone or has all the answers. You're all in a cyber pissin'
match. Let's get back to the soaps!
Thank you. And we now return to our regularly scheduled programs.
Bonbon (make me mad, will ya?)
Bonbon
icebr...@mindspring.com
tresb...@aol.com (TresBonBon) wrote:
>
>Icebreaker sound suspiciously, to me at least, very much like Michael
>Kersey. I'd bet money on it. Anyone else?
>
>Bonbon
Ummm, like was I ever trying to hide that it was me? HELLO!
icebr...@mindspring.com
tresb...@aol.com (TresBonBon) wrote:
>Stop it! Please! There's not a single person out there that knows what's
>best for everyone or has all the answers. You're all in a cyber pissin'
>match. Let's get back to the soaps!
No we will not go back. We will not be silenced. Keep your ding dongs
and ho ho's off our bodies!!
Really, the sad thang about Fatgate '97 was that EVERYONE agreed that
Sweeny is beautiful, intelligent, and not fat. I don't even have a
clue what we're disagreeing about anymore.
icebr...@mindspring.com
cava...@super.zippo.com (DonnaB) wrote:
>She didn't say you said all. She pointed out that you have been
>critical. And, I might add that the statement she's using also shows
>generalizing.
And why did I feel the need to generalize in the first place Donna?
Because I knew junk like this would get started. Furthermore, none of
you are going to make any type of negative charge against me stick.
I'm too clever for that. I've covered all my bases this time. I
generalized that the majority of fat people are fat because of lazy
eating and exercise habits because I know not every fat person is fat
because of laziness. Some of it can't be helped and derseves
understanding, not scorn. But some people out there ARE lazy and that
is why they are fat. I should know. I used to be one of them.
> There's no scientific evidence to even *suggest* that
>the majority of "fat" people are lazy, etc. & to make such a statement
>is in itself size-ist and a particular brand of bigotry.
Did I suggest that there was scientific studies conducted that
concluded fat people were just lazy? Huh? Huh? Come on. If you can
find where I said that, i'll leave RATSM forever. Come on, here's your
chance to get rid of me. Find the place where I stated scientists
concluded fat people are lazy slobs and i'm out of here.
DonnaB
On Sat, 07 Jun 1997 01:28:40 GMT, icebr...@mindspring.com wrote:
| cava...@super.zippo.com (DonnaB) wrote:
|
| >She didn't say you said all. She pointed out that you have been
| >critical. And, I might add that the statement she's using also shows
| >generalizing.
|
| And why did I feel the need to generalize in the first place Donna?
| Because I knew junk like this would get started. Furthermore, none of
| you are going to make any type of negative charge against me stick.
| I'm too clever for that. I've covered all my bases this time. I
| generalized that the majority of fat people are fat because of lazy
| eating and exercise habits because I know not every fat person is fat
| because of laziness. Some of it can't be helped and derseves
| understanding, not scorn. But some people out there ARE lazy and that
| is why they are fat. I should know. I used to be one of them.
Sorry, Michael, no cigar. You've left bases uncovered all over the
place.
| > There's no scientific evidence to even *suggest* that
| >the majority of "fat" people are lazy, etc. & to make such a statement
| >is in itself size-ist and a particular brand of bigotry.
|
| Did I suggest that there was scientific studies conducted that
| concluded fat people were just lazy? Huh? Huh? Come on. If you can
| find where I said that, i'll leave RATSM forever. Come on, here's your
| chance to get rid of me. Find the place where I stated scientists
| concluded fat people are lazy slobs and i'm out of here.
Nope, you didn't say that there were & I didn't say that you said that
there were. I mad a comment about allegations that you had made &
about critical remarks others here have made about your allegations
which are actually just a bias of yours apparently.
Anyway, I thought you were serious about talking about this, but it
seems you're just playing a game. I'm not, so I'll leave you to it.
DonnaB
I knew it was you, Michael, and that you weren't hiding out. I just
made a mental note that your mindspring account had changed its
propers a bit. Heck, you've been icebreaker (at) for a good while
now, haven't you?! <G>
icebr...@mindspring.com
cava...@super.zippo.com (DonnaB) wrote:
>Nope, you didn't say that there were & I didn't say that you said that
>there were. I mad a comment about allegations that you had made &
>about critical remarks others here have made about your allegations
>which are actually just a bias of yours apparently.
>
>Anyway, I thought you were serious about talking about this, but it
>seems you're just playing a game. I'm not, so I'll leave you to it.
I'm not playing any game. I've just gotten tired of fighting over
NOTHING. We're on the same side of the Allison issue on virtually
every level, yet haggling and clawing over mere details. After reading
the sentence at the top, I was going to say "See ya, i'm out of this
converstation", but you beat me to it more or less.
icebr...@mindspring.com
cava...@super.zippo.com (DonnaB) wrote:
>I knew it was you, Michael, and that you weren't hiding out. I just
>made a mental note that your mindspring account had changed its
>propers a bit. Heck, you've been icebreaker (at) for a good while
>now, haven't you?! <G>
I've been Icebreaker for over two months. At first, my name did appear
along side with Icebreaker, but I changed that. Not because I was
trying to hide anything, it's just that if you've got a cool name like
Icebreaker, why ruin it my putting in your real name?
'Downtown' lovingly said this about me the other day over on
alt.tv.real-world: " Michael, not only are you an Icebreaker, but now
you're a firestarter". Shoot....I could'nt have said it better myself.
PM Watch
In article <19970606233...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
tresb...@aol.com (TresBonBon) writes:
>
>Stop it! Please! There's not a single person out there that knows
>what's best for everyone or has all the answers.
(snipped)
I'm with you. This is becoming a serious case of last-word-itis.
I think we all know where each of us stands. More discussion seems
futile. Although I am tempted to give one last try an enlightenment, I
will post no more to the thread.
I'm done.
PM Watch
DonnaB
On 7 Jun 1997 23:21:30 GMT, pmw...@aol.com (PM Watch) wrote:
| I'm with you. This is becoming a serious case of last-word-itis.
| I think we all know where each of us stands. More discussion seems
| futile. Although I am tempted to give one last try an enlightenment, I
| will post no more to the thread.
| I'm done.
Stick a fork in 'er. LOL.
DonnaB
JulieCiz
Subject: Re: Alison Sweeney talks about the internet on Entertainment
Tonight!
From: icebr...@mindspring.com
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 00:33:03 GMT
Message-ID: <3390c21...@news.mindspring.com>
stac...@aol.com (Stacey42) wrote:
>Right on J!! For one, Alison is not fat. Whoever started this whole
>"Alison Sweeney is fat" crap are a bunch of losers.
>>First off, let me just say that i'm very glad that i've never stated
anything negative about her weight, or anyone else's. I would hurt me
to know she'd been hurt. It hurts me know. She seems like a nice girl.
But,, I *think* Allison has gotten some of her facts wrong. I remember
last year around the summer time two hiefers from the University of
Houston named Wendee and Cathee who kept starting up posts like "Sammi
is a big fat pig". That was last year. On the whole, I have'nt seen
anything remotely close to those fat pig threads since. Also, the
"spammi" comments, unless i'm naive, are directed at Sammi, not
>>>Allison.
> Sami may "look" fat
>compared to Hope! But that is because Hope is sickingly THIN.
>DISGUSTINGLY thin. Alison is MUCH more healthier looking!
>>Oh, come on. That's not fair either. Your boosting up Allison at
>>Kristin Alfonso's expense. Allison's perceived "fatness" is no more
>>our business than Alfonso's percieved 'sickening thiness'
I think Ali was on through AOL and the boards there have been unkind off
and on for the past three years. I agree about Ali and Kristian's weights
having nothing to do with one an other. I do feel Kristian is too thin,
and have on several occasions said she might be have an eating disorder.
This isn't a slam, it's an observation. If I were a fan, I'd express my
concern to her. Since I'm not, I've pointed it out to her fans. The
entertainment industry is filled with paper thin models who are killing
themselves in order to keep themselves paper thin. It's an illness and
needs treatment. I've no way of knowing if she has a problem, but some who
know about these things see many signs.
Icebreaker
"007 Forever"
'Tomorrow Never Dies' news and more at:
"http://members.tripod.com/~mdk/Bond18.html"
Julie(Peanutbutter Cup) \ Julie's Used Books /
Fan of AW and GH \ e-mail me for current list /
Former fan of Days \ Juli...@aol.com /
Some of Daytimes best: \------------------------------------/
RKK, Stephen Nichols, Lynn Herring and Jensen Buchanan
icebr...@mindspring.com
juli...@aol.com (JulieCiz) wrote:
>I think Ali was on through AOL and the boards there have been unkind off
>and on for the past three years. I agree about Ali and Kristian's weights
>having nothing to do with one an other. I do feel Kristian is too thin,
>and have on several occasions said she might be have an eating disorder.
>This isn't a slam, it's an observation.
I don't think Kristian has an eating disorder. I've personally been
throught hell with a woman named "Kristin" who had an eating
disorder. I helped her get through it and was there all the way for
her with much support, so I know a little something about it. I'm no
expert, but my hunch tells me that Kristin Alfonso may resort to tummy
tucks, collagen injections to look good. My cousin Brian and I both
agree she's had implants. That is UNQUESTIONABLE. I think Kristin's
biggest problem is looking artificial, not too thin.
Pepper
>
> Icebreaker sound suspiciously, to me at least, very much like Michael
> Kersey. I'd bet money on it. Anyone else?
>
> Bonbon
>
I think you're right Bonbon - the 007 signature gives us a clue!
Pepper
Garlic Peel
In article <339626d...@news.mindspring.com>,
<icebr...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>gar...@news.netgate.net (Garlic Peel) wrote:
>
>
>>You're now perpetuating the same myth I was trying to decry. I started
>>out as a large-framed, but normal weight person. I went on birth control
>>pills, and when I went of, at age 25, I gained 1/3 of my (normal)
>>starting weight over the next 6 months. Rapidly and with no change to my
>>eating habits or behaviour. I currently am at the same, (over)weight,
>Garlic, I-ain't-gonna-fall-for-it. Check ANY of my posts and tell me
>where I said ALL fat people are that way because they are lazy slobs
>or are slaves to ding dongs and ho-ho's. All you're trying to do is
>destroy proven scientific data because you happen to be an exception
>to a general rule.
But you *did*, which is where this all started. With an early comment of
yours that being overweight was a *choice*, that one could choose not to
be fat by just giving up ding dongs and ho hos. YOu make these sweeping
generalizations (this has happened before) and then deny you made them
when someone calls you on your bullshit.
>>Ok, there are bad stereotypes about both. *HOwever*, most media
>>attention and approval goes to the thin person. Why is this? It
>>certainly isn't particularly healthier to be thin.
>
>That's your opinion. But it's not a fact. Furthermore, what is
>"thin"? I'm thin compared to Marlon Brando, but i'm fat standing next
My "opinion" is that one's general level of health cannot be ascertained
in entirety by something like body weight. But media attention and
approval certainly does go to *extremely* thin people, people who often
have to go to amazing lengths to stay that way (all the jokes about how
little models eat wouldn't exist if it weren't the case that many models
have unhealthy eating habits to stay as thin as they are). Normal weight
people and slightly overweight people who are in media often receive a
great deal of abuse (like Sweeney and Judi Evans, for example) when they
are probably healthier than a starving supermodel.
>>wrong minded to say the place for fat people but not necessarly should it
>>be equal to thin people is as wrong minded as to say the same about
>>Asian people, or left-handed people, or gay people.
>
>Now this in interesting. Berry, berry interesting. You're comparing
>sexuality(which you more than likely consider hereditary) to weight
>control. There is NO proof whatsoever that people are born fat. If
I"m not comparing origins, I'm comparing various forms of prejudice,
stereotypes and igotry. In retrospect, I probably shouldn't have,
because your arguments are just the kind that would stoop to deliberately
misunderstanding my point to make your own. And I would think that the
fact that body type does tend to run in families should speak for
itself. One can fight some of ones genetic predispositions to overweight
(or brown hair or alchoholism), but that does not mean they don't exist.
>word fat is used. When I say that someone is fat, i'm talking
>roseanne/Marlon Brando size fat. Allison Sweeney has some fat on her,
In your opinion that is fat. Your opinion is simply that.
>>Healthy how? I'm overweight, and I get sick *far* less often than my
>>thin friend. I also have more stamina, more energy and get tired and
>>run-down far less often. 'Splain how that works? At my most recent
>change all the rules just to fit her one belief. In essence, you've
>done the same. By virtue of your supposedly good health, while being
>overweight as you maintain, you somehow feel that now all rules,
>prescriptions and doctor recommendations about trying to stay healthy
Um, no. You said overweight people were not healthy. I'm refuting your
claim with personal information. At no time did I say that it was in all
cases healthy to be overweight. Every person is different, with a
different level of health that I am simply asserting is *not* directly
based on his or her weight or lack thereof.
<big old chunk of stupidity deleted for space>
>stttttttopppp me. I'm SSSSSSSSSSSmooookin!!!
Yeah, but *what* are you smokin'?
>>But people like you are scary, too, because you seem to truly believe in
>>some negative and unhealthy stereotypes. Sizeism, no matter how
>>rationally packaged, is a prejudice,just like sexism and bigotry. And
>>just as ugly.
>
>Sizeism? Stop it. I 'm laughing too hard.:)
To each his own, I guess. Sizeism is, as far as I'm concerned, *no*
laughing matter. I would no more want to be judged by someone based on
my size than I would the fact that I'm right-handed, 5'6" tall or
American. Nor would I want anyone else to be judged by such criteria.
>What you're really saying, is that because I don't agree with you
>point by point, line by line, i'm scary and a "sizeist". Last summer,
Nope. It's because you sound like one. It sounds like you judge people
based on their size (that they must be in poor health, lazy and have bad
eating habits), just like you sound like you judge them on their sexual
preference and morality. Because *your* weight problem had to do with
eating habits and exercize, does NOT mean that everyone's is. You are
not the standard we should all be judged by, in spite of what you might
think. It seems like every fucking arguement you get into starts with
you making a generalization or a judgement about someone based on *your*
experience, *your* values or *your* morality.
>when I refused to go along with your every point about homosexuality
>and genetics, I got the exact same speech you just gave. You know, the
>whole thing about " no matter how rationally packaged, is a
>prejudice". Just fill in the blank. You've got the standard speech
>laid out for any and every topic.
Oh, no! I'm consistant! Shoot me now! Frankly, I can't feel too bad
about having a fairly predictable reaction to prejudice, bigotry and
stereotypes.
>>(learning to love my body, even though the media says I'm not supposed to)
>
>You know, that's just typical FEMINAZIST BULL . Name me one time a
>media outlet has said "women, you should 'nt be comfortable with
>yourself if you are overweight". Where is it? Show me the magazine,
>the tv clip, the newpaper article. Where where where? You can't, cuz
>it does'nt exist. The truth is, feminists like you use the hard work
My ample ass it doesn't exist! Since when are there *any* number of
overweight, stable, "good", interesting characters on TV or in films?
There may be a few (very few) but usually, "fatties" are stereotypical
gluttinous, lazy, slobby, dysfunctional, etc. Since when have you seen
two happy, large people frolicing in the surf enjoying a vacation, a beer,
a condom or a new car? Describe the last magazine ad that included
someone who was *not* extremely thin? The message is clear- if you are
not slim and trim, you'd better get that way, or you will certainly never
experience true love, a good job, a nice vacation or a sex life.
There have been wonderful stinks made recently about the lack of
African-American, Hispanic-American, Asian-American, etc. characters
portrayed on the media, because what it tells these people is that they
are somehow invisible, not worth telling stories about. That's
discrimination, plain and simple, just as the lack of fat characters is
discrimination. Someday, it will stop being "ok" for that to be the case.
>and good looks and trim fit of many actresses and models to make
>points. You trash them and their efforts in order to build yourself
NO again. that wasn't even a good try. I think it's great that there
are *every* size people in the world. I think it's fabulous that we are
all so unique and different- beautiful thin people, beautiful fat people,
lovely people of all colours, folks who put effort into different things
to achieve different looks. I have no need to build myself up at anyone
else's expense, 'cause I think I'm pretty ok as I am.
>up. I've seen it on this ng already, and already I TRASHED that
>stupid logic.
I must have missed that part. Mostly, I've seen you make post after post
either making judgements, displaying faulty logic, negating or denying
things you said before... oh, or scaring everyone with suicide threats.
Yeah, ok, that was low. But I'm tired of defending myself against your
diatribes, when my message is pretty simple. Believe it or not, this is
not some kind of grudge match thing with you personally. Mostly, it is
an attempt to throw out other points of view and other experiences and
opinions at your pronouncements, judgements and generalizations.
TTFN,
Garlic
(once again speaking for diversity in all areas)
--
_______________________________Valerie's Mate_____________________________
Ariel and felines Scorpio Pook Misty Zipper Vixen Jazmyn HollyB's Mom
http://www.savina.com/~june
Garlic Peel
In article <33974bf5...@news.mindspring.com>,>><<<Icebreaker said:
>>
>>Again, I must clarify what fat is. It's relative. One can have fat on
>>them, without embodying what people traditionally think of when the
>>word fat is used. When I say that someone is fat, i'm talking
>>roseanne/Marlon Brando size fat. Allison Sweeney has some fat on her,
>>
>>many, posts, not too long ago, entitled "Sami Is A Fat Pig"? I wonder who
>>wrote them?
>
>What's your problem Bon Bon? Is your wig stapped on too tight or
>something? I said <<< at no time have I or you or Donna B or any of
Oh, that's brilliant. Just when I think your pettiness knows no bounds,
you come up with something like this. YOu are entirely missing her
point, deliberately. Just because "regulars" do not post such, there
have been posts that have *not* been trolls, but peope who honestly
believe Ms. Sweeney is a "fat pig". That's what BonBon was getting at.
But, true to form, you disregarded that to make a personal slam at her,
and insult her intelligence, too.
>No regular would ever say such things about Allison. Regulars have a
>modicum of style and class.
Well, most of 'em.
>>And another thing! EVERYBODY has "fat" on them. Even Kristin Alphonso.
>>You can't exist without fat. Now get down off your soap box and get with
>>the program called "real life" bucko!
>>If Allison Sweeney is FAT, I'm the sultan of Brunei!
>
>You know, this sentence that you're reading right now was not the
>original sentence I put in. After careful thought, I decided one
>putdown against you was enough. I'm not going to go low like you have.
>Whenver you want to talk about what i'm actually saying instead of the
>words you're trying to force in my mouth, we'll talk .Until then,
>leave me alone.
Oooh. Are we all impressed, gang? Forbearance, an avoidence of getting
even *more* petty and childish. If *you* would occasionally talk about
what you are saying (or better yet, address what *others* are saying),
perhaps it would all make more sense. But you wouldn't have such a
*huge* opinion of your own cleverness and wit, then, would you?
TTFN,
Garlic
(you know, DonnaB, I think it *is* all a big game for him)
icebr...@mindspring.com
gar...@news.netgate.net (Garlic Peel) wrote:
>Oh, that's brilliant. Just when I think your pettiness knows no bounds,
>you come up with something like this. YOu are entirely missing her
>point, deliberately. Just because "regulars" do not post such, there
>have been posts that have *not* been trolls, but peope who honestly
>believe Ms. Sweeney is a "fat pig".
In my time here on RATSM, which has been considerable, i've never seen
one REGULAR call Allison a "Fat pig". Period. Only the trolls.
>That's what BonBon was getting at.
>But, true to form, you disregarded that to make a personal slam at her,
>and insult her intelligence, too.
Well she did it to me, so we're even.
>Oooh. Are we all impressed, gang? Forbearance, an avoidence of getting
>even *more* petty and childish. If *you* would occasionally talk about
>what you are saying (or better yet, address what *others* are saying),
>perhaps it would all make more sense.
I have. But you feminists and blue hairs only want to slam what you
hope i'll say, not what i've said.
>(you know, DonnaB, I think it *is* all a big game for him)
It is NOT a game for me. I ' m genuinely frustrated by your complete
lack of acknowledging that we're on the same side of the Allison
issue. Maybe that's what's got your panties in a bunch. You can't
believe we agree on something.
Icebreaker
"007 Forever"
movies, books, comics, video games, original articles,
audio/video files, classifieds, the next James Bond movie
and more!
"http://www.Mindspring.com/~icebreaker/intro.html"
icebr...@mindspring.com
gar...@news.netgate.net (Garlic Peel) wrote:
>I appreciate your comments, Lisa,a nd for the record, I"m not in this for
>any personal "grudge match" think, just to refute some of the sweeping
>generalizations and negative stereotypes Michael is perpetuating.
>
That being that *most* (i.e. the majority) of fat and overweight
people are lazy when it comes to good eating habits and exercise.
Nearly daily, medical doctors tell "couch potato Americans" that they
are not getting enought exercise, water, vitamins and eating right.
Our young kids today are in poor physical shape. I went into the book
store today and could still not find one book that shows you how to
get more fat into your diet. Until such time as the World Health
Organization declares that fat is good and health, I won't say it is,
just to avoid offending people pushing a fat acceptance agenda.
>I think it's great, as well, that MIchael has the body he wants. But as
>you say above, it is disturbing to me the amount of disgust, disdain and
>derision he heaps on those who don't fall into his standards... whether
>they concern body type, sexual preference or family unit.
Find the post where I said that I had a certani standard that Mrs.
Sweeny needed to fit into? Or a certain sexual preference I think she
should be? Huh? Find it! I double dog dare you to find it. If you can,
I leave. If you don't then shut your mouth. You're accusing me of
things i've not said.
>(and why can't they make roller-coaster seats a bit more comfortable for
>larger sized behinds? Can only thin people enjoy roller coasters??)
Most seats are made for allowing fat behinds. If your arse is STILL to
big to fit into that seat, CLUE TIME!!.... get a treadmill and use it.
icebr...@mindspring.com
gar...@news.netgate.net (Garlic Peel) wrote:
>But you *did*, which is where this all started. With an early comment of
>yours that being overweight was a *choice*,
Maybe "choice" was the wrong word. Maybe "matter" would've been
better. But the essence of that post was definitely upbeat and
positive, but you've mad sure that no one can remember that.
>>word fat is used. When I say that someone is fat, i'm talking
>>roseanne/Marlon Brando size fat. Allison Sweeney has some fat on her,
>
>In your opinion that is fat. Your opinion is simply that.
What planet are you from? What is it that you smoke before posting? A
ham? A joint? She wore a midriff sweater a while back that clearly
showed a roll of baby fat peeking through. That's fat. That was'nt
muscle. Go to med school if that concept is to hard for you to grasp!
>Nope. It's because you sound like one. It sounds like you judge people
>based on their size (that they must be in poor health, lazy and have bad
>eating habits),
GO read my post about Allison and then tell me how I judged her
negatively.
> Describe the last magazine ad that included
>someone who was *not* extremely thin? The message is clear- if you are
>not slim and trim, you'd better get that way, or you will certainly never
>experience true love, a good job, a nice vacation or a sex life.
Do you think men don't feel the pressure to have washboard abs, a
square jaw line, a full head of hair, etc....?
>I must have missed that part. Mostly, I've seen you make post after post
>either making judgements, displaying faulty logic, negating or denying
>things you said before... oh, or scaring everyone with suicide threats.
>
>Yeah, ok, that was low.
Yeah, painfully low. Thanks for bringing up bad memories.
icebr...@mindspring.com
For those too LAZY to read, in context, what i've been saying all
along, here it is:
FIRST POST
I hope Allison continues to check in to RATSM and know that she is
appreciated. In fact, I bet after that special ran last night, she's
checking to see the reaction. Let's show support.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
SECOND POST
First off, let me just say that i'm very glad that i've never stated
anything negative about her weight, or anyone else's. I would hurt me
to know she'd been hurt. It hurts me know. She seems like a nice girl.
But,, I *think* Allison has gotten some of her facts wrong. I remember
last year around the summer time two hiefers from the University of
Houston named Wendee and Cathee who kept starting up posts like "Sammi
is a big fat pig". That was last year. On the whole, I have'nt seen
anything remotely close to those fat pig threads since. Also, the
"spammi" comments, unless i'm naive, are directed at Sammi, not
Allison.
Oh, come on. That's not fair either. Your boosting up Allison at
Kristin Alfonso's expense. Allison's perceived "fatness" is no more
our business than Alfonso's percieved 'sickening thiness'.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIRD POST
eri...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>Right on!! I don't know where people get the idea that it's ok to bash
>thin people to the moon, but if you say anything about a heavy person
>it's cruel and insensitive. People make choices about what their
>bodies look like and some people don't like other people's choices,
>but that's no reason to get mean about it!
>
>Amy
Thanks. It's really a double standard and one that many people don' t
think about when they make comments like the person who I responded
to did. I know no offense was meant, but being overweight or
underweight *is* a personal choice, and if we're going to extend to
Allison the courtesy of staying out of her "weighty" affairs, we
should do the same to Kristin.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
FOURTH POST: A response to Garlic Peel
True, but you're just nitpicking now Garlic. My comments were aimed
at those who have control over their body weight. I can't write
commentary that's all inclusive. The issue was about Allison's weight,
not people who are chained to their weight by genetics, which is rare.
Most people, if they'd put down the ho-ho's and the ding dongs would
lose a couple of pounds.
The *majority* of fat people are lazy when it comes to proper eating,
and exercise. If they ate right, and exercised 30 minutes a day, they
would'nt be fat.
There *are* stereotypes about thin people i.e. he/she must be on
drugs; she must binge and purge; smoking is the only way that he/she
stays thin. When I think back on all the comments about Kristin
Alfonso's weight, the word most associated with her is "ANOREXIC".
Quite clearly and obviously, through the use of collagen
injections(for the lips) and Breast implants( those are not natural)
Kristin has reshaped her image. Does she use tummy tuck to look so
slim or does she just eat right and have good eating habits? I've no
clue. I don't care. It is obvious though that these are all choices
she's making .
>
I'm glad you mentioned this above. I don't want to FIGHT, but it
would be nice to chew the fat or dig in our claws for a spell or two.
We've not fought in a loooonnnggg time. Have I mellowed? Have I been a
good boy? I don't think so. But I do admit I need a challenge, and
you've just thrown the gauntlet. True, there is a place for fat
people, but not at all times should that place be equal to the place
for thin people. There's nothing inherently wrong or evil with fat
people, but I would'nt want to see an fat person modeling bathing
suits.
How many fat people won an Olympic Gold medal in swimiming at the
Atlanta Olympics?
How many fat people were in the equestrian event at the Olympics?
How many fat people were in the bicycle race at the Olympics?
Fat is not healthy and I won't let you argue that it is, if that's
what you intended. Though I don't think that's what you meant.
>
>On the topic at hand, I think Alison looks great,
Quite true. She's BABE-ALICOUS.
>and is a good actress
>who is improving steadily.
Also true.
>And anyone who tears down anyone for physical characteristics is clearly too
>stupid to come up with something *real* to comment on.
Wendee, and Cathee are lost causes. They did their damage last year,
which was about the time Allison said she saw the messages. People
like Wendee and Cathee are lost causes because at this point in their
life, they know right from wrong. Either their parents poorly raised
them, they just don't care to be civil to others, or both.
>TTFN,
>Garlic
>(Obviously, Reilly's fat is between his ears :^)
Hey, I thought there was nothing wrong with fat?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
As you can plainly see, i've never tied in a persons worth to society
by their weight. Or their looks. Or their sexual preference. Or their
skin color. I've been nothing but considerate, nice and consillatory
where Mrs. Sweeny and Judi Luciano Evans have been concerned. Not a
disparaging word has come out of my mouth about them.
But i've been fat. I helped bring a girl through eating disorders so
severe, she was hospitalized for 3 months. "Kristian" as most regulars
may remember, used my account months ago to post to several discussion
groups about depression, eating disorders,etc.... So, you know, I know
a thing or two about what I say.
People deserve respect and to be treated with dignity and humanity no
matter what their body size. But I WILL NOT push the notion that
obesity( i.e. "Fat pig" ) is a healthy way to live your life. Chronic
and severe weight problems are a definite medical concern for people,
and I will not placate those who would say otherwise, just because it
is not politically correct to say so on this newsgroup. Without any
doubt, FACTS show that a majority of Americans do not eat right, get
little nutrition, do not exercise and are 20-30 lbs overweight. Those
that could do better but do not are rightly called by me to be lazy.
It's bad for the heart, the blood vessels, the arteries, the knees,
the back, the stomach, and the skin. To say that fatness is okay is
wrong. We are talking about a person's medical condition, NOT their
self worth. I won't be a party to giving out fraudulent advice.
In post #3, I used the phrase "*is* a personal choice". The key word
being "choice". In hindsight, "choice" may not have been a good word.
A better one would've been "matter". My first thought was to apologize
for giving the wrong idea, but I think not. The spirit of that post
was upbeat, postitive and reassuring towards Miss Sweeney. There was
no reason to assume I was meaning or saying something subliminal in
that post.There are no negative messages. No stereotypes being
pushed.. That others, like Garlic Peel have resorted to low ball
tactics and nasty name calling only shows that they have an agenda
they want to push, and they'll NITPICK at any little thing that
doesn't meet with their apporval.
For the centuries leading up to this one, fat was considered a sign of
being rich, well fed or of royalty. If you were thin you were
considerd malnourished, poor, common or trash. Through the years,
doctors have rightly exposed the dangers of cigarette smoking,
nicotine addicition, caffeine addiction, drug abuse, and even obesity.
Now, after all those centuries, thin is in and fat is out. You fat
people have had centuries of dominance. Why not give us thin people
some slack?
TresBonBon
To: Icebreaker
"007 Forever"
You're beating a dead horse. Okay, you've had the last word, now give it
a rest.
Bonbon
Garlic Peel
In article <339ca75f...@news.mindspring.com>,
>>have been posts that have *not* been trolls, but peope who honestly
>>believe Ms. Sweeney is a "fat pig".
>
>In my time here on RATSM, which has been considerable, i've never seen
>one REGULAR call Allison a "Fat pig". Period. Only the trolls.
I recall more, and numerous people chiming in and saying "well, I
wouldn't say "pig" but she is overweight".
>>That's what BonBon was getting at.
>>But, true to form, you disregarded that to make a personal slam at her,
>>and insult her intelligence, too.
>
>Well she did it to me, so we're even.
I must have missed that part. And even if she did slam you, *must* you
reply in kind?
>>Oooh. Are we all impressed, gang? Forbearance, an avoidence of getting
>>even *more* petty and childish. If *you* would occasionally talk about
>>what you are saying (or better yet, address what *others* are saying),
>>perhaps it would all make more sense.
>
>I have. But you feminists and blue hairs only want to slam what you
>hope i'll say, not what i've said.
Wrong again. I"m neither a feminist nor a blue hair, btw. Any other
erroneous sweeping generalizations you'd like to try?
>>(you know, DonnaB, I think it *is* all a big game for him)
>
>It is NOT a game for me. I ' m genuinely frustrated by your complete
>lack of acknowledging that we're on the same side of the Allison
>issue. Maybe that's what's got your panties in a bunch. You can't
>believe we agree on something.
And I'm frustrated by the fact that you refuse to see that Allison
Sweeney has NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS DEBATE! (except maybe her name is
still on the header- hope the poor woman isn't still reading this!).
What it is about (one more time) is your generalizations about fat
people, and why they are fat. That's it.
TTFN,
Garlic
(may soon be posting in all caps...)
susanzz...@prodigy.net
On 2 Jun 1997 19:52:35 GMT, ma...@Eng.Sun.COM (Marcy Hartman)
wrote:
>I saw Alison's interview, and if I remember correctly the whole
>Spammi thing had to do with the quality of the acting. There
>were people (myself included) who felt that Alison needed some
>acting lessons, and said so in some pretty strong words.
But when you're also reading messages about what a fat pig you
are, it's pretty easy to take Spam as referring to food & how
much you eat. The nickname should be SCAMmi, since she always
has a scheme.
Garlic Peel
In article <3397f11...@news.mindspring.com>,
<icebr...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>pmw...@aol.com (PM Watch) wrote:
<stupid car analogy deleted>
>The truth is that most of these people gain the weight back because
>they stop doing what got them thinner in the first place. Keeping
*Or*, and more frequently, the body acclimates to the reduced caloric
intake and manages to creep back to the "set point" of weight it is happy
with.
>is,was and always will be food. Please don't discount the value of my
It is harder with food, because while one can totally eschew alchohol or
drugs, one cannot eliminate food from one's life experience. I would
love for science to devise a pill that one could take daily that would
fulfull all nutritional requirements, and not leave one hungry. I would
probably only eat once a week if such a thing were available.
>>You've never criticized others? Then what is this comment that you posted
>>June 4th 1997 on this NG?
>>
>> "The *majority* of fat people are lazy when it comes to proper
>> eating, and exercise. If they ate right, and exercised 30 minutes
>> a day, they would'nt be fat."
>>
>>Are you going to assert that this is not a criticism?
>
>Ummmmm, where's the fire? Where in that comment does it say anything
>about *every* fat person being lazy? The overwhelming experience and
Ok, "majority" is not "every". but your statement is still a
wrong-minded, sweeping generalization.
>the wrong reasons, and I kept telling her the proper way to lose it,
>but she would'nt pay any attention. So, the more she used this form of
<deleted>
>Twix. Anyway, she's not even overweight I told her. Firming and
>toning was all she really needed to do if she wanted to work on
>something. But she would'nt exercise.
Good heavens! Someone discounting the advice from Michael Kersey? Who
is this foolish woman and how did she survive, disregarding your vast
experience in that way?? Perhaps she was under the misguided assumption
that there are more ways to achieve something than the one that is
sanctioned by Mr. Kersey?
>They never were, and never will be. That's why I qualified my
>statement by say *majority*. That excluded a segment of people with
>medical conditions, but like most indepth and interesting topic on
>this ng, if blacks, gays, Jews, transexuals, fur protesters, the
>elderly, etc....dont get special recognition on hot button issues,
>Garlic Peel will come blare her cyber whistle, the troops will fall in
No, just generalizations and stereotypes, which will *always* get my
attention and my derision. You seem to delight in both, which is why we
get into it so regularly (not, as you seem to wish to think, because I
have this great desire to argue with you... frankly, you're just good
fodder).
>line, and the assault will begin. How did my simple little post of
>encouragement to Allison get this thread so heated, and homosexuality
>get included? Odd, but it happened.
Your simple little post of encourage ment to Allison and derision of
"lazy" fat people, you mean. What you keep missing is that part. And
where did homosexuality come in? If you are referring to my reference to
it in a prior post, I was simply detailing other forms of stereotyping
and prejudice. Which I should have avoided, really, because I should
have guessed your propensity for trying to drag oranges into a discussion
of apples would require that you jump on the reference.
TTFN,
Garlic
(this is getting awfully tiresome...)
Garlic Peel
In article <339cab21...@news.mindspring.com>,
<icebr...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>gar...@news.netgate.net (Garlic Peel) wrote:
>
>>But you *did*, which is where this all started. With an early comment of
>>yours that being overweight was a *choice*,
>
>better. But the essence of that post was definitely upbeat and
>positive, but you've mad sure that no one can remember that.
Upbeat and positive unless you happen to be fat. Then, the post was
insulting and derogatory and presumptive.
>>>word fat is used. When I say that someone is fat, i'm talking
>>>roseanne/Marlon Brando size fat. Allison Sweeney has some fat on her,
>>
>>In your opinion that is fat. Your opinion is simply that.
>
>What planet are you from? What is it that you smoke before posting? A
>ham? A joint? She wore a midriff sweater a while back that clearly
>showed a roll of baby fat peeking through. That's fat. That was'nt
>muscle. Go to med school if that concept is to hard for you to grasp!
Deliberately misunderstand me and then be insulting. Cool. My *point*
was not regarding biological definitions of fat (which we all must have
in some percentage on our bodies, or experience unpleasant side-effects),
but perceptual ones. I certainly don't consider Ms. Sweeney fat in my
perception. What one person considers "fat" some other might consider
"just right". That's all.
>>Nope. It's because you sound like one. It sounds like you judge people
>>based on their size (that they must be in poor health, lazy and have bad
>>eating habits),
>
>GO read my post about Allison and then tell me how I judged her
>negatively.
Another misdirection. I never said you judged Allison negatively, just
the fat people who read your post. "Lazy" is perjorative and negative.
>Do you think men don't feel the pressure to have washboard abs, a
>square jaw line, a full head of hair, etc....?
Yes, and taht's wrong, too.
>>I must have missed that part. Mostly, I've seen you make post after post
>>either making judgements, displaying faulty logic, negating or denying
>>things you said before... oh, or scaring everyone with suicide threats.
>>
>>Yeah, ok, that was low.
>
>Yeah, painfully low. Thanks for bringing up bad memories.
Well, y'know, if you didn't do such things, no one could bring up bad
memories of them.
TTFN,
Garlic
(very nearly done with this...)
Garlic Peel
In article <339ca8d4...@news.mindspring.com>,
>>I think it's great, as well, that MIchael has the body he wants. But as
>>you say above, it is disturbing to me the amount of disgust, disdain and
>>derision he heaps on those who don't fall into his standards... whether
>>they concern body type, sexual preference or family unit.
>
>Find the post where I said that I had a certani standard that Mrs.
>Sweeny needed to fit into? Or a certain sexual preference I think she
>should be? Huh? Find it! I double dog dare you to find it. If you can,
>I leave. If you don't then shut your mouth. You're accusing me of
>things i've not said.
Much as I'd love to find such, I can't because you haven't said anything
of the kind. Not about Allison Sweeney, at least. Though, you have
shown a great deal of discourtesy to overweight people, in your
original post and in your followups. In spite of your persistant
attempts to diffuse things due to your *not* having said anything
unpleasant aobut Ms. Sweeney, it is still clear, to me at least, that
folks who do not fit into your narrow definitions (of thin, of "family",
of acceptable sexual preference) are worthy of your negativity,
prejudice and scorn.
>>(and why can't they make roller-coaster seats a bit more comfortable for
>>larger sized behinds? Can only thin people enjoy roller coasters??)
>
>Most seats are made for allowing fat behinds. If your arse is STILL to
>big to fit into that seat, CLUE TIME!!.... get a treadmill and use it.
Um not too big, just not always *comfortable* particular when coupled
with the breast-mashing chest bar. As I gained weight, it became less
and less comfortable, while still do-able, prompting me to wonder what
someone of greater size would do if they still wanted to ride a roller
coaster and not be force to conform with current standards of acceptable
looks. I guess that choice is just not available.
TTFN,
Garlic
(done)
Stephie2u
gar...@news.netgate.net (Garlic Peel) wrote:
>Personaly, I think it's the chain smoking, and the fact that she
>reportedly doesn't eat for days at a time. I wouldn't call either a
>particularly healthy choice.
I agree. A friend of mine lost quite a bit of weight on the coffee and
cig diet. Where she used to be athletic looking, she now looks like a
waif. How can that be healthy?
>That's your taste. I know a lot of folks who would rather see fat people
>than thin ones (and boy, do some other people think *that's* sick...).
>I'd rather see a healthy looking body with a few extra pounds than a
>super-skinny, pokey boned swimsuit model.
>Healthy how? I'm overweight, and I get sick *far* less often than my
>thin friend. I also have more stamina, more energy and get tired and
>run-down far less often. 'Splain how that works? At my most recent
>doctor's appointment, the doctor pronounced me "disgustingly healthy",
>and had no suggestions for me, *including* that I lose weight. My BP and
>pulse rate are low normal; really, all I need to do is get out walking
>more often than I am, to keep my current health as I get older. And
>that's just a preference of mine.
Again, I agree! The very idea that healthy=thin is a media-induced
concept. I know alot of people who are thin and having lots of medical
problems, where myself and others who are a little more curvier, are very
healthy. I have better blood-pressure than my brother-in-law, who is a
smaller guy. All I am saying is that one is not always necessarily better
than the other. Bodies come in different shapes and sizes. There was
once a time when the Botticelli look was in and women were considered
healthier if they had some meat to them.
Not wanting to argue with anyone, but I hate the fact that the media has
made women so self conscience about their bodies that some have killed
themselves over it. Allison is doing a great job on the show, and I think
she looks great. whether she stayed the same weight or lost it.
Stephie
icebr...@mindspring.com
step...@aol.com (Stephie2u) wrote:
>Again, I agree! The very idea that healthy=thin is a media-induced
>concept. I know alot of people who are thin and having lots of medical
>problems, where myself and others who are a little more curvier, are very
>healthy. I have better blood-pressure than my brother-in-law, who is a
>smaller guy. All I am saying is that one is not always necessarily better
>than the other. Bodies come in different shapes and sizes. There was
>once a time when the Botticelli look was in and women were considered
>healthier if they had some meat to them.
>
>Not wanting to argue with anyone, but I hate the fact that the media has
>made women so self conscience about their bodies that some have killed
>themselves over it. Allison is doing a great job on the show, and I think
>she looks great. whether she stayed the same weight or lost it.
Hi Stephanie,
I don't want to argue either, so maybe you can help me out a little
here. I'd like to understand why so many people(primarily women) feel
that the media equates fit=thin. I just don't *GET* the correlation
between anorexia nervosa and what the media puts out. The reason I say
this is because there are no positive images in any media of fat men.
Drew Carey does not model Calvin's on huge billboards in Times Square.
Louie Anderson does not model Versace for GQ. Men are always faced
with square jawed, flawless faced, washboard abd, hairless chest hunks
modeling everything in sight. There has been a lot of growing critiscm
in the soap genre about daytime shows hiring 'hunks' to fill roles.
Especially none that have any talent. Like Ausin Peck, or the boy that
plays Nicholas on YR. The soap landscape is littered with hardbodies,
not spare tired soft tushed males.
This isn't a flame, but i'd just like to understand,why, in the midst
of such imagery, more males do not have eating disorders. I do know,
one doctor that stated male forms of anorexia nervosa would be a
common and growing disease going into the next century. Why do you
think this does not affect men like it affects women?
Stephie2u
icebr...@mindspring.com wrote:
This is off-topic, so I added the OT in the subject. You make valid
points about mens roles in the media as well. Why men don't get as
involved as women can only be answered by my opinion with a little
information added from articles I have read. IMHO, women get alot more of
that *perfect* image thrown in their faces more than guys do. Watch music
videos, look at fashion magazines, and any other TV shows, how many women
do you see above a size 9? Men aren't constantly reinforced that in order
to have a wonderful life and get the love of your dreams, you have to be
thin and beautiful. A friend of mine who is trying to break into soaps is
so thin, she's almost sickly looking. But, if she gains so much as 5 lbs.
she is pressured to lose it quickly. Men, IMHO, have a lot more leeway in
weight range than women do. Glamour has been forced on women for a long
time. I do believe you are correct that more men will start getting
eating disorders in the years ahead, but again, in my opinion, women feel
more pressure than men to be *Perfect*. I also believe that women aren't
as critical of mens bodies than men are of womens. Frankly, I have dated
men of all types of body styles, and I prefer ones with a little meat on
them. (I'm not talking a beer gut or anything like that ;-) Alot of
women I know feel the same way. Men that I know, however, prefer their
women to be model gorgeous.
I'd like to close this and say that I for one am glad that some of the
soaps are going against typecast and casting women who aren't skin and
bones. They seem to be setting the pace that curvy women can be just as
glamorous, if not more so, than their thinner peers. Maybe designers will
start getting the word to make styles of clothes for women over size-14
more flattering.
Stephie
Margarita
>
>
>
> >Healthy how? I'm overweight, and I get sick *far* less often than my
> >thin friend. I also have more stamina, more energy and get tired and
> >run-down far less often. 'Splain how that works? At my most recent
> >doctor's appointment, the doctor pronounced me "disgustingly healthy",
> >and had no suggestions for me, *including* that I lose weight. My BP and
>
> >pulse rate are low normal; really, all I need to do is get out walking
> >more often than I am, to keep my current health as I get older. And
> >that's just a preference of mine.
>
>
>
put in my 2 cents. I'm a vegetarian, but I am not thin contrary to
popular belief; actually, I'm a bit chunky because I love food.
However, I don't eat junk food or food with artificial colors or
flavors. I just love to have my avocados! Anyway, I agree with all the
health issue. I teach and I'm never out for health reasons (maybe just
mental health) and my students and fellow students go from one bug to
the next that is going around. I never catch any of them!
Margarita
Owen Picton
icebr...@mindspring.com wrote:
: step...@aol.com (Stephie2u) wrote:
: >Again, I agree! The very idea that healthy=thin is a media-induced
: >concept. I know alot of people who are thin and having lots of medical
: >problems, where myself and others who are a little more curvier, are very
: >healthy. I have better blood-pressure than my brother-in-law, who is a
: >smaller guy. All I am saying is that one is not always necessarily better
: >than the other. Bodies come in different shapes and sizes. There was
: >once a time when the Botticelli look was in and women were considered
: >healthier if they had some meat to them.
: >
: >Not wanting to argue with anyone, but I hate the fact that the media has
: >made women so self conscience about their bodies that some have killed
: >themselves over it. Allison is doing a great job on the show, and I think
: >she looks great. whether she stayed the same weight or lost it.
: Hi Stephanie,
: I don't want to argue either, so maybe you can help me out a little
: here. I'd like to understand why so many people(primarily women) feel
: that the media equates fit=thin. I just don't *GET* the correlation
: between anorexia nervosa and what the media puts out. The reason I say
: this is because there are no positive images in any media of fat men.
: Drew Carey does not model Calvin's on huge billboards in Times Square.
: Louie Anderson does not model Versace for GQ. Men are always faced
: with square jawed, flawless faced, washboard abd, hairless chest hunks
: modeling everything in sight. There has been a lot of growing critiscm
: in the soap genre about daytime shows hiring 'hunks' to fill roles.
: Especially none that have any talent. Like Ausin Peck, or the boy that
: plays Nicholas on YR. The soap landscape is littered with hardbodies,
: not spare tired soft tushed males.
: This isn't a flame, but i'd just like to understand,why, in the midst
: of such imagery, more males do not have eating disorders. I do know,
: one doctor that stated male forms of anorexia nervosa would be a
: common and growing disease going into the next century. Why do you
: think this does not affect men like it affects women?
Probably because anorexia nervosa is not being examined in men to the same
extent as is is in women, and possibly because men find other ways than
eating disorders to express illness. In the reading that I have done in
the area of eating disorders, anorexia nervosa and bulimia nervosa in
particular, and body image, about ten percent of the population with
anorexia nervosa are men. The literature seems to leave it at that. The
authors of studies and papers on the topics express intricate theories of
how women become anorexic, but don't seem to address its causes in men.
What they do say, though, is that more elderly men are being diagnosed
with anorexia, and some teenage males are being diagnosed with a "reverse
anorexia" , or an unhealthy obsession to become bigger, more developed,
more muscular. Mass media is not not leaving young women alone to
struggle to become a healthy ideal; the young men have their own
distorted images to mimic.
I would also wager that getting males to admit that they are anorexic or
bulimic would be more difficult than getting females to do so because of
the stereotype associated with the two illnesses. Taking as a given (for
arguements sake) that one of the main causes of anorexia is a perceived
loss of self-control, men would not "choose" (at any level of choice) to
starve themselves or take a more "feminine" outlet, because boys are not
encouraged or allowed to take them. Young boys may take more control of
their lives by (just examples!) joyriding, breaking-and-entering, and
bullying younger and psychologically weaker people. These are more
"masculine" traits for people to assert self-control. For a related
discussion, look at the comparative methods of adolescent suicide; girls
seemed to attempt suicide more times and used methods that had more of a
leeway of survival, whereas boys seemed to succeed more often and used
more violent means (fatal car accidents may make the body count even
higher.)
Does this make sense? Let me know.
Owen
--
Owen Picton, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, BC, Canada
onpi...@unixg.ubc.ca
"Today I gave all I had. What I've kept, I've lost forever."
eri...@worldnet.att.net
Margarita <yaz...@flash.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
Oh well, this thread has been around about a month now....I figure
I'll
put in my 2 cents. I'm a vegetarian, but I am not thin contrary to
popular belief; actually, I'm a bit chunky because I love food.
However, I don't eat junk food or food with artificial colors or
flavors. I just love to have my avocados! Anyway, I agree with all
the
health issue. I teach and I'm never out for health reasons (maybe
just
mental health) and my students and fellow students go from one bug to
the next that is going around. I never catch any of them!
Margarita
<<<<<<<<<<<
Way to go Margarita! I am a vegetarian also, and I'll bet you've had
to do your share of myth-debunking about that lifestyle choice, huh?
I know I have!
Amy
TresBonBon
Hey Garlic! Remind me to never get into a flame war with you. You argue
a point with excellence and precision. The only problem is, the one
you're now engaged with doesn't seem to see how badly he's being stomped!
I'd save my breath/fingers if I were you.
Bonbon
icebr...@mindspring.com
onpi...@unixg.ubc.ca (Owen Picton) wrote:
>Probably because anorexia nervosa is not being examined in men to the same
>extent as is is in women, and possibly because men find other ways than
>eating disorders to express illness.
<SNIP>
> some teenage males are being diagnosed with a "reverse
>anorexia" , or an unhealthy obsession to become bigger, more developed,
>more muscular. Mass media is not not leaving young women alone to
>struggle to become a healthy ideal; the young men have their own
>distorted images to mimic.
Amen brother! Thank you for this wonderful post. It's like water in a
desert. You're absolutely right, and after I posted that question to
Stephanie, the answers hit me. Men and women ARE different. We react
to situations differently. I still think that anorexia is mostly
about the way a woman feels about herself, not what the media is
telling her she should look like. With men, many boys, in an attempt
to cover massive insecurities, will resort to steroids and
bodybuilding. Many men also abuse, hit, or slap women or other men as
forms of expression with how they feel about themselves.
Yes, the slapping is wrong. The steroids are wrong. The starving
oneself is wrong. But it's SYMPTOMS of something else larger going on
in a person's life.
>
>I would also wager that getting males to admit that they are anorexic or
>bulimic would be more difficult than getting females to do so because of
>the stereotype associated with the two illnesses.
Agreed.
>Taking as a given (for
>arguements sake) that one of the main causes of anorexia is a perceived
>loss of self-control, men would not "choose" (at any level of choice) to
>starve themselves or take a more "feminine" outlet, because boys are not
>encouraged or allowed to take them. Young boys may take more control of
>their lives by (just examples!) joyriding, breaking-and-entering, and
>bullying younger and psychologically weaker people. These are more
>"masculine" traits for people to assert self-control.
<SNIP>
>Does this make sense? Let me know.
Absolute sense. It's a great post. We need more like that around here.
Please keep it up.
Garlic Peel
In article <19970617193...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
TresBonBon <tresb...@aol.com> wrote:
>Hey Garlic! Remind me to never get into a flame war with you. You argue
No worries on that, I'd assume, since I generally only flame in
situations when I think the other person is being deliberately obtuse,
argumentative, arguing ridiculous theories or comparisons, or clearly
trolling (and not always in the latter case). I can't see you resorting
to any of the above.
>a point with excellence and precision. The only problem is, the one
>you're now engaged with doesn't seem to see how badly he's being stomped!
>I'd save my breath/fingers if I were you.
Thanks. And I have disengaged in this, and very likely any further
"debates" with that individual. Requested a cessation of personal email,
as well.
TTFN,
Garlic
(far prefers intelligent debate)
--
_______________________________Valerie's Mate_____________________________
Mom to Ariel and felines Scorpio, Pook, Misty, Zipper, Vixen, and Bosco.
<*> http://www.savina.com/~june