Could Burroughs type novels survive today?

[tobymax43]

I like ERB a lot even though his science is well iffy at best. I
finished At The Earth's Core and the science
really didn't make a lot of sense. 1 - Hollow Earth, 2 - time for some
seems to be one hour another
weeks (Perry thought 1 hour went by with Innes escape - Innes thought
he was gone for weeks), 3 - doesn't
seem to rain at all, 4 - tides, 5 - still trying to figure out how
the land mass could be greater then land
mass on the surface.

I know he is still popular and I love how his stories just gets to the
point. Side issues like love is really
just love at first sight. Fast moving no overly long setting up
scenes. Also short, short novels - few beyond
180 pages.

Could a writer today who focuses more on the fantastic and not real
science, with short novels and
shortcuts like how love is dealt with get away with it.

Sometimes I wonder if Burroughs as well as other pulp writers at the
time like the writers of
Doc Savage novels should be Fantastical Fiction writers not SF
writers.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <12804b9b-0821-4288...@o15g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,

I'm not sure that is a distinction that makes any sense. It's
certainly not one that would fly here as we (mostly..) tend to take
a pretty broad definition of SF.

As to the main question: Sure. Burroughs himself remains popular, and
Burroughs type planetary romances remained popular through the 80s.
The current economics of publishing don't seem to favor short books, but
I would not be at all surprised to find ebook authors active and moderatly
successful in that length. (Either now, or in the future..)
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[T Guy]

On Oct 27, 3:52 am, tobymax43 <toby...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I like ERB a lot even though his science is well iffy at best. I
> finished At The Earth's Core and the science
> really didn't make a lot of sense. 1 - Hollow Earth, 2 - time for some
> seems to be one hour another
> weeks (Perry thought 1 hour went by with Innes escape - Innes thought
> he was gone for weeks), 3 - doesn't
> seem to rain at all, 4 - tides, 5 - still trying to figure out how
> the land mass could be greater then land
> mass on the surface.

Because the land mass on the surface is only one-eighth of the total
mass of the surface; the inner world mirrors this, with seven-eighths
of its mass being land and a mere one eighth water.

> I know he is still popular and I love how his stories just gets to the
> point. Side issues like love is really
> just love at first sight. Fast moving no overly long setting up
> scenes. Also short, short novels - few beyond
> 180 pages.
>
> Could a writer today who focuses more on the fantastic and not real
> science, with short novels and
> shortcuts like how love is dealt with get away with it.
>
> Sometimes I wonder if Burroughs as well as other pulp writers at the
> time like the writers of
> Doc Savage novels should be  Fantastical Fiction writers not SF
> writers.

I think that there may be a reson why this stuff is called science
*Fiction*.

[Lynn McGuire]

The Sanctuary TV series has a Hollow Earth theme running
right now. So, I would say yes.

Lynn

[Lynn McGuire]

On 10/26/2011 9:52 PM, tobymax43 wrote:

BTW, the ERB "Princess of Mars" series has just been
re-issued in trade paperback for the upcoming Disney
"John Carter" movie. March 9, 2012:
http://disney.go.com/johncarter/

Lynn

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Not to mention that Pixar is scheduled to bring out _John Carter_
next year.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

[tphile]

and John Carter and Dejah Thoris have their own comic book adventures
currently on comic shop shelves.
Many aspects of ERB are timeless and universal and frequently used
today from video games, books and movies (Avatar) like the blade
wielding hero in an exotic land.
but some parts of ERB are dated and should remain buried like the male
chauvanism. For example Dejah Thoris started out as a great idea a
princess leading a scientific expedition but it quickly turned into
Hero must save helpless damsell in distress who turns into trophy
wife. A fate that afaik all ERB women are destined for. Even Jane
Greystoke has to be saved by Tarzan from Queen La of Opar.
I like strong female characters who can fend for themselves when
necessary, like Modesty Blaise or Princess Leia

[Quadibloc]

On Oct 27, 11:09 am, tphile <tph...@cableone.net> wrote:

> and John Carter and Dejah Thoris have their own comic book adventures
> currently on comic shop shelves.

Oh, my. I knew there was a Flash Gordon comic on the shelves not long
ago...

But the fact that the actual Edgar Rice Burroughs characters are
valuable *trademarks* does not necessarily mean that similar books
would do well today.

Think of Sherlock Holmes. As a character, he is still very popular,
and thus movies based on Arthur Conan Doyle's works continue to be
made. But does that mean that any current mystery novels are
stylistically similar?

So, to answer the original question, we might look, for example, at
the success (or lack thereof) of the books by Lin Carter. But they
must have had some success for the World's End, Callisto, and Green
Sun series to each go on to several volumes.

It is still true that novels are sold that people just read for
entertainment - instead of movies and TV wholly usurping that role,
with books exclusively dominated by serious literary works. Hence,
David Weber's Honor Harrington series, for example.

The OP noted the *length* of books as a distinguishing factor, and it
is true that novels are thicker these days. But they're also typeset
in larger type, perhaps because the most numerous baby boomers have
gotten older.

I would love it if Burroughs-like adventure were to come back into
fashion.

Having been short of reading material to fill some hours of enforced
idleness, I happened to read Wilbur Smith's _Assegai_. I found it
quite entertaining - the protagonist rather reminded me of a certain
British naval Commander of Scots ancestry said to have a resemblance
to Hoagy Carmichael and a scar down his right cheek - as well as on
the back of his left hand.

John Savard

[Quadibloc]

On Oct 27, 11:09 am, tphile <tph...@cableone.net> wrote:

> For example Dejah Thoris started out as a great idea a
> princess leading a scientific expedition but it quickly turned into
> Hero must save helpless damsell in distress who turns into trophy
> wife. A fate that afaik all ERB women are destined for.  Even Jane
> Greystoke has to be saved by Tarzan from Queen La of Opar.
> I like strong female characters who can fend for themselves when
> necessary, like Modesty Blaise or Princess Leia

And not just Honor Harrington, but Kris Longknife, Kylara Vatta, Esmay
Suiza... are the protagonists of popular books written to be read for
entertainment lately. This seems to be a trend, with the intent to get
away from the traditional cliches...

John Savard

[Robert Carnegie]

On Oct 27, 3:52 am, tobymax43 <toby...@comcast.net> wrote:

I think thriller stories such as _The Bourne Identity_ may be casual
about romance too. And _Bulldog Drummond_, but he's almost from _At
the Earth's Core_ time - the other end of the First World War,
though. Love isn't what the story's about, it's just a motivation for
the hero.

As for the fantastic, well, um, _Artemis Fowl_ has done moderately
well.

[JRStern]

On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 11:22:28 -0500, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com>
wrote:

>BTW, the ERB "Princess of Mars" series has just been
>re-issued in trade paperback for the upcoming Disney
>"John Carter" movie. March 9, 2012:
> http://disney.go.com/johncarter/

huh, didn't want to pay any royalties to frank frazetta, by the looks
of it.

J.

[erilar]

Not if you call it sf. As fantasy, perhaps. It's hard to judge when
one became a Tarzan fan in early adolescence. On the other hand, I had
at least doubled my age when I began to collect the later Tarzan books
and found John Carter, et al. I also found, bought, and greatly enjoyed
the Doc Savage books when they came out in paperback again, by which
time their "science" was long since superseded by real life science.

The stories were fun. Tastes differ widely. Some people still enjoy
rereading Doc Smith, and it's not for the "science". I like really old
mysteries, including a series where WWI is about to erupt. (I'm not
referring to books SET then, but some WRITTEN then)

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist

[erilar]

In article <LtqGE...@kithrup.com>,

djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

> Not to mention that Pixar is scheduled to bring out _John Carter_
> next year.

Oh, if it's Pixar, it should be watchable!

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist

[Kip Williams]

erilar wrote:
> In article<LtqGE...@kithrup.com>,
> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>
>> Not to mention that Pixar is scheduled to bring out _John Carter_
>> next year.
>
> Oh, if it's Pixar, it should be watchable!

Ever see the screen tests Bob Clampett made in the 1930s for an animated
version? It's interesting to watch them move, but they don't get into
story much. As I recall, it's one of the extras on the first Beany &
Cecil DVD � which was packed with extras and Easter eggs.


Kip W

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <drache-EBD5F1....@news.eternal-september.org>,

erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>In article <LtqGE...@kithrup.com>,
> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>
>> Not to mention that Pixar is scheduled to bring out _John Carter_
>> next year.
>
>Oh, if it's Pixar, it should be watchable!

That is my anticipation too. I gather (not having seen ALL their
films, because I don't get out much) that this is the first time
they've combined live-action (Carter, e.g.) with animation (Tars
Tarkas, e.g.).

[Ahasuerus]

On Oct 27, 8:02 pm, Quadibloc <jsav...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote: [snip]

> So, to answer the original question, we might look, for example, at
> the success (or lack thereof) of the books by Lin Carter. But they
> must have had some success for the World's End, Callisto, and Green
> Sun series to each go on to several volumes.

The fact that Kenneth Bulmer's Dray Prescot novels (http://
www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?2220) keep reappearing on the
(electronic) shelves suggests that there is still some demand for "ERB
type novels". And, of course, the Prescot saga was a direct influence
on Charles Allen Gramlich's (http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?
114879) recent Talera Cycle.

[tphile]

On Oct 28, 11:00 am, erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
> In article <LtqGE0....@kithrup.com>,

>  djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>
> > Not to mention that Pixar is scheduled to bring out _John Carter_
> > next year.
>
> Oh, if it's Pixar, it should be watchable!
>
> --
> Erilar, biblioholic medievalist

It's not Pixar, it's live action Disney and here is the trailer for
2012
http://youtu.be/6Rf55GTEZ_E
which might be a good movie but can never be close to the book with
their family standards.
no nudity and Dejah Thoris is heavily tattooed.
There was also a low budget ScyFy Channel version starring Traci
Lords
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_of_Mars
not worth watching at all but that is to be expected with most Made
For ScyFy Channel movies anyway

[erilar]

In article
<3c3082bd-6bd6-4c0e...@n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>,

I won't be seeing it then. "Live action Disney" is a turn-off for me
nowadays.

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist

[Lynn McGuire]

Sir, I believe that you are incorrect. From
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Carter_%28film%29
it says:
"This project marks the first time that Andrew Stanton
has worked on a live-action film, as his previous work
includes the Pixar animated films Finding Nemo and WALL-E."

Lynn

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

That merely means that Stanton has worked with Pixar, not that this is
a Pixar project.


--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com

[tphile]

On Oct 28, 7:10 pm, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"

and whenever you say Pixar, people think animation not live action.
Brad Bird who did The Incredibles for Pixar is directing Mission
Impossible Ghost Protocol but that doesn't make Pixar

[djinn]

John Buchan's Hannay stories? I like those too. And Childers' Riddle
of the Sands.

[Kip Williams]

erilar wrote:

> "Live action Disney" is a turn-off for me
> nowadays.

There are a few good live Disney pictures, but by and large, "nowadays"
is almost superfluous. We used to watch "Wonderful World of Color" every
week. Now, to digress a bit, we had a book of kid stories, and in one of
them a little girl is learning to read and thinks you pronounce the
punctuation, sort of like Borge, only she'd say things like "button
hook, rabbit ears" for question mark and quotation mark, and read them
inline like they were words.

So I'm six or seven, and my older sisters and I are watching an
antiseptic adventure with a brother and sister wandering around the
outdoors pointlessly, and the girl's delivery is so flat that after she
intones one of her lines, I chime in "Baseball bat, rabbit ears..."

A triumph. Perhaps my first MST moment, circa 1963 or 1964, making my
sisters snicker. I hope I'll still remember it when I'm way old.


Kip W

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <fRHqq.11623$vg7....@newsfe04.iad>,

Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>erilar wrote:
>
>> "Live action Disney" is a turn-off for me
>> nowadays.
>
>There are a few good live Disney pictures, but by and large, "nowadays"
>is almost superfluous. We used to watch "Wonderful World of Color" every
>week. Now, to digress a bit, we had a book of kid stories, and in one of

Well, that's not the same thing as live Disney "pictures" ie "movies".

There were a lot of classic or godd Disney live features:

Mary Poppins
The Love Bug
Snowball Express
The Gnome-Mobile
The Adventures of Bullwhip Griffith
Treasure Island
20,000 Leagues Under The Sea
Old Yeller
Swiss Family Robinson
The Absent-Minded Professor
The Parent Trap
Bedknobs & Broomsticks
The Apple Dumpling Gang
Tron
Return To Oz
Jungle 2 Jungle
Pirates of the Caribbean
Enchanted

[Kip Williams]

Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article<fRHqq.11623$vg7....@newsfe04.iad>,
> Kip Williams<mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> erilar wrote:
>>
>>> "Live action Disney" is a turn-off for me
>>> nowadays.
>>
>> There are a few good live Disney pictures, but by and large, "nowadays"
>> is almost superfluous. We used to watch "Wonderful World of Color" every
>> week. Now, to digress a bit, we had a book of kid stories, and in one of
>
> Well, that's not the same thing as live Disney "pictures" ie "movies".

Not the same thing as their big ones, but they were made by Disney and
generally had some theatrical release.

> There were a lot of classic or godd Disney live features:
>
> Mary Poppins
> The Love Bug
> Snowball Express
> The Gnome-Mobile
> The Adventures of Bullwhip Griffith
> Treasure Island
> 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea
> Old Yeller
> Swiss Family Robinson
> The Absent-Minded Professor
> The Parent Trap

> Bedknobs& Broomsticks

> The Apple Dumpling Gang
> Tron
> Return To Oz
> Jungle 2 Jungle
> Pirates of the Caribbean
> Enchanted

I'll agree that there were a few. I presume we are disagreeing on how
many "a few" denotes. I wouldn't include all the ones on your list, but
I'm sure I have some favorites that aren't on there.


Kip W

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <C4Lqq.1105$V07...@newsfe22.iad>,

Let's see. I would list 20K Leagues, Bedknobs, Tron, Return to
Oz (an *excellent* film that didn't get the coverage it deserved,
because the exec in charge of it had fired or been quit and
nobody else wanted to touch it), and Pirates.

Except for 20K Leagues (with Kirk Douglas when he was young and
cute!), I have them all on DVD and watch them from time to time.
As all here know, I rate books from A to F based on how often I
want to reread them; same for movies.

Bedknobs has one great song.

"They're sailing on England, oh, what a shame.
Someone is after our island once again.
We'll give it to them, oh yes we will,
but maybe they won't like it when they get the bill...."

[tphile]

On Oct 28, 10:52 pm, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>)
wrote:
> In article <fRHqq.11623$vg7.9...@newsfe04.iad>,

and lets not forget "Dr Syn, Alias The Scarecrow" starring Patrick
McGoohan in his first american role(later to do Tomasina). One of my
favorite Disney movies/World of Color tv series. McGoohans maniacal
Scarecrow laugh is worthy of The Shadow.
It would be nice to see a remake of the Thorndyke novels. There was
also a Hammer movie version starring Peter Cushing.

[jack...@bright.net]

tphile wrote:

>On Oct 28, 10:52 pm, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>)
>wrote:
>>

>> There were a lot of classic or godd Disney live features:
>>
>

>and lets not forget "Dr Syn, Alias The Scarecrow" starring Patrick
>McGoohan in his first american role(later to do Tomasina). One of my
>favorite Disney movies/World of Color tv series. McGoohans maniacal
>Scarecrow laugh is worthy of The Shadow.

I must have seen a trailer for a re-release of this at the first movie
I went to a theater to see, a re-(re-re-re-re-re?-)release of "Snow
White and the Seven Dwarves." Years later, when recalling it, I
didn't remember why it was so scary to my younger self; must have
played a McGoohan laugh. I see the movie is available (for certain
values of available) if I ever do want to check it out.

>It would be nice to see a remake of the Thorndyke novels. There was
>also a Hammer movie version starring Peter Cushing.

Pixar, Disney and Hammer, we have the makings of a "Consistent Studio"
thread to go with the "Consistent Publisher" one!

--
-Jack

[tphile]

Yes, Disneys Dr Syn, Alias The Scarecrow of Romney Marsh was released
several years ago. Both the movie and tv versions plus extras
introduced by Walt and Leonard Maltin collected in a metal case dvd
set. and well worth getting.
Not sure if the Hammer version has ever been released. and would like
to see a reissue of the Thorndike novels.
Oddly enough the scariest Disney movie I ever saw as a child was Darby
O'Gill and the Little People with a young Sean Connery. That death
coach had me running out of the theatre. I was real young then but now
its a fond memory
BTW Turner Classic Movies Channel has been an outstanding place this
month to see horror movies. All the great ones.

[jack...@bright.net]

tphile wrote:

>On Oct 29, 10:15�pm, jackb...@bright.net wrote:
>> tphile wrote:
>>
>> >and lets not forget �"Dr Syn, Alias The Scarecrow" starring Patrick
>> >McGoohan in his first american role(later to do Tomasina). �One of my
>> >favorite Disney movies/World of Color tv series. �McGoohans maniacal
>> >Scarecrow laugh is worthy of The Shadow.
>>
>> I must have seen a trailer for a re-release of this at the first movie
>> I went to a theater to see, a re-(re-re-re-re-re?-)release of "Snow
>> White and the Seven Dwarves." �Years later, when recalling it, I
>> didn't remember why it was so scary to my younger self; must have
>> played a McGoohan laugh. �I see the movie is available (for certain
>> values of available) if I ever do want to check it out.
>

>Yes, Disneys Dr Syn, Alias The Scarecrow of Romney Marsh was released
>several years ago. Both the movie and tv versions plus extras
>introduced by Walt and Leonard Maltin collected in a metal case dvd
>set. and well worth getting.

I've sunk my money into the metal cased Tomorrowland DVD, maybe when I
recover from that.

>Not sure if the Hammer version has ever been released. and would like
>to see a reissue of the Thorndike novels.

Hammer's was put out as "Night Creatures" on the Universal Franchise
Collection of "The Hammer Horror Series"

>BTW Turner Classic Movies Channel has been an outstanding place this
>month to see horror movies. All the great ones.

Oh, yeah, and THEM and Forbidden Planet for not-horror sci-fi today
(Sunday).

--
-Jack

[Robert Carnegie]

On Oct 29, 9:23 am, tphile <tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
> and lets not forget  "Dr Syn, Alias The Scarecrow" starring Patrick
> McGoohan in his first american role(later to do Tomasina).  One of my
> favorite Disney movies/World of Color tv series.  McGoohans maniacal
> Scarecrow laugh is worthy of The Shadow.
> It would be nice to see a remake of the Thorndyke novels.  There was
> also a Hammer movie version starring Peter Cushing.

Evidently the Disney version cleaned up almost all of the bloodshed
from the novels.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Syn>

Which I will now spoil.

A couple of them have been recent readings on BBC 7, now BBC Radio 4
Extra. Syn appeared to me to be a ruthless criminal throughout,
except for falling in love with a respectable young woman who then
learned his secret tragically sacrificed her life to save him, /as a
recurring theme/ - can that be right? Or any good?

[tphile]

I love both classics, but not-horror? Giant ants surely qualify as
horror. and the movie was done as a detective mystery so you have
horror of what they did.and anything with James Whitmore is worth
watching. I am suprised it hasn't been remade also. I would CGI the
ants as rat or dog sized and a lot more and a lot faster. Very scary.
I haven't yet found and read the novelization of Forbidden Planet but
it has horror elements. I always thought that self destruct lever
was a little to simple and easy to access and operate. Could the
Krell machine have wished up a fake destruct lever and a fake
destruction of the planet. What if Robby and Altaira were creations
of the Krell machine. The implications of that is horrifying.

[tphile]

Dr Syn aka Captain Clegg aka The Scarecrow has been a pirate, smuggler
and vicar so of course he has been a criminal and even a ruthless one
(ship captains often have to be ruthless) but then The Founding
Fathers were revolutionaries and therefore criminals too. The Shadow
committed criminal acts. So did most superheroes and especially The
Batman. Bilbo Baggins was a burglar and thief. The Scarlet Pimpernel
was a criminal according to the French

[Kip Williams]

tphile wrote:

> Oddly enough the scariest Disney movie I ever saw as a child was Darby
> O'Gill and the Little People with a young Sean Connery. That death
> coach had me running out of the theatre. I was real young then but now
> its a fond memory

I think Pinocchio has some well-done horror scenes in it. The
transformation scene, shown mostly in shadows and reaction, is quite
effective.


Kip W

[tphile]

and how many have been traumatized by the death of Bambis mother? and
not just children. I also refuse to watch the end of Old Yeller.
Animal shows are very hard to watch because it almost always filled
with animal torture, suffering or death scenes (including Lassie). I
have no problem seeing that done to people but not to cute animals.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <917e3099-ce29-422c...@n13g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>,

tphile <tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
>
>I haven't yet found and read the novelization of Forbidden Planet but
>it has horror elements.

I have the novelization, and you know what? It's pretty dull.

The scary elements in the movie are in the special effects
-- particularly that very brief sight of the Id Monster, for
which they borrowed somebody from Disney. I once saw a
concept drawing for the Monster, and you know what? It's not
horrible, it's interesting. It has the body shape we presume
(from external evidence) the Krell had -- near-spherical body,
with two clawed feet. No hands. No wonder the Krell wanted
to develop mechanisms operated by mind alone. But it has the
face of a malignant ape. It's a hybrid construction formed by
a mostly human mind and Krell technology.

But in the book (by W. J. Stuart, whoever the heck he was) it's
just ... not scary. Stuart wasn't much of a writer.

In sum: forget about the book; get a good DVD of the film, with
the beautiful colors and that brief glimpse of what Disney in the
fifties could do when it wasn't trying to amuse little kids.

> I always thought that self destruct lever
>was a little to simple and easy to access and operate. Could the
>Krell machine have wished up a fake destruct lever and a fake
>destruction of the planet. What if Robby and Altaira were creations
>of the Krell machine. The implications of that is horrifying.

You're putting things into the story that aren't there. You're
wanting something more horrific than the writer and director
chose to put there, and interpreting it accordingly. But don't
forget: the plot is basically a ripoff of _The Tempest._

[Ahasuerus]

On Oct 30, 10:32 am, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> In article <917e3099-ce29-422c-a457-5fb926573...@n13g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>,

>
> tphile  <tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
>
> >I haven't yet found and read the novelization of Forbidden Planet but
> >it has horror elements.
>
> I have the novelization, and you know what?  It's pretty dull.

> a mostly human mind and Krell technology.

> [snip]

> But in the book (by W. J. Stuart, whoever the heck he was) it's
> just ... not scary.  Stuart wasn't much of a writer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_MacDonald

[Kip Williams]

tphile wrote:
> On Oct 30, 9:32 am, Kip Williams<mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> I think Pinocchio has some well-done horror scenes in it. The
>> transformation scene, shown mostly in shadows and reaction, is quite
>> effective.
>

> and how many have been traumatized by the death of Bambis mother? and
> not just children. I also refuse to watch the end of Old Yeller.
> Animal shows are very hard to watch because it almost always filled
> with animal torture, suffering or death scenes (including Lassie). I
> have no problem seeing that done to people but not to cute animals.

I sat behind a young boy at a showing of BAMBI, and he had no sort of
barrier or delay between his brain and mouth, so everything he thought
was uttered immediately. I could have found this annoying, but I chose
to see it as a glimpse into the mind of a child.

In the hunting scene, where the death is not shown explicitly, he missed
what was happening entirely. "Where's Bambi's mom?" he said. "Shhhh,"
said the grownup he was with. "She's dead." "No, she isn't."

A scene or so later, we see grown-up Bambi, with no transition to speak
of. "There's Bambi's mom!" "No, that's Bambi." "No, it isn't!"

So, in this case at least, there was no trauma, or even awareness. It
reminds me that I asked a co-worker how her four-year-old son reacted to
the shock treatment scene in RETURN TO OZ. "Didn't bother him at all,"
she told me. "He thought she was wearing headphones."


Kip W

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <6c7c30e1-4daf-46f9...@x21g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,

Even without torture or suffering ... it is a fact of life on
this planet that humans live much longer than any animal they are
likely to keep as a pet. I've outlived all but two of my cats,
and they are both getting old and creaky (as I am).

Edna St. Vincent Millay, in a poem complaining about the breakup
of yet another relationship, commented

"Parrots, tortoises, and redwoods
Live a longer life than men do,
Men, a longer life than dogs do,
Dogs, a longer life than love does."

[tphile]

On Oct 30, 9:32 am, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> In article <917e3099-ce29-422c-a457-5fb926573...@n13g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>,

well speculating and putting things into a story that aren't there is
a time honored tradition here and the fuel for discussion. (what if
hobbits had mutant super powers or biplanes and AK-47s?)
I agree that novelizations are dull. but then they all are. They get
rushed thru using the finished script as a guide. A writer has little
time or permission to expand or develop the story. At most we see
scenes that got changed at the last minute or deleted from the film.
but according to wikipedia the FP novelization does give some
interesting bits. Like that the animals are constructs and not real.
So bad or not, I will still pick it up when I see it.
Also wikipedia tells us W J Stuart is the pseudonym of mystery writer
Paul MacDonald who has quite a resume of work including The List of
Adrian Messenger (a great movie)

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <7ea58ab9-d138-4cae...@a12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>,

Heh. Sharkey's Men wouldn't have much of a chance.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <Wmerq.7241$rF5....@newsfe19.iad>,

Yes. There's a lot of stuff in that film that will scare the
living daylights out of an adult, who knows more, but passes
right over the children's head.

An extreme case: I took my kids to a showing of _Star Wars_ when
they were young; Tris would've been about three and Meg less than
a year. Tris watched it all and had a wonderful time. Meg,
dozing in my lap, woke up startled when the spaceguns started
firing, but she looked around and saw that no one else was
scared, so she went back to sleep.

[David DeLaney]

tphile <tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
>Bilbo Baggins was a burglar and thief.

"Yes, but he was seduced into it by peer pressure from his co-heightants, your
Honor! He never meant for it to be any sort of career!"

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[Kip Williams]

Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> Even without torture or suffering ... it is a fact of life on
> this planet that humans live much longer than any animal they are
> likely to keep as a pet. I've outlived all but two of my cats,
> and they are both getting old and creaky (as I am).

I keep having to reconcile myself to the fact that my cat isn't going to
support me in my old age.


Kip W

[Kip Williams]

tphile wrote:
> I agree that novelizations are dull. but then they all are.

Those novelizations of LORD OF THE RINGS were really bogus. All the big
battle scenes were toned way down, the Orcs were just guys in armor, and
there was no dwarf tossing. Just a lot of talking and a million names to
remember. No wonder that Tolkien guy hasn't been given any more movies
to adapt.


Kip W
...

[Kip Williams]

Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> An extreme case: I took my kids to a showing of _Star Wars_ when
> they were young; Tris would've been about three and Meg less than
> a year.

We took my parents to see that when they were about sixty. They liked it.


Kip W

[tphile]

That's what I thought but now he has been hired to adapt novelizations
for the prequels
LoTR-1 The Hobbit Menace

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

On 10/30/11 1:09 PM, David DeLaney wrote:
> tphile<tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
>> Bilbo Baggins was a burglar and thief.
>
> "Yes, but he was seduced into it by peer pressure from his co-heightants, your
> Honor! He never meant for it to be any sort of career!"

It was actually all manipulated by that _agent provacateur_ "Gandalf",
who was sent here from a far-Western country to assist in the
destabilization of current regimes and meddle in local politics.


--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

Worse. I hear he's taking the two prequels and just writing one book --
and taking out half the really interesting action with the Necromancer
versus the Council.

[tphile]

On Oct 30, 1:39 pm, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"

and isn't the second prequel
LoTR - 2 ROMANCING THE RING or The REVENGE OF JAR JAR BAGGINS?

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <lTfrq.10684$yY3....@newsfe01.iad>,

/slaps Kip with rubber chicken

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <KQfrq.10680$yY3....@newsfe01.iad>,

I'm coming to the regretful conclusion that I may not be able to
get any more cats when these two go. It will depend on whether
I'm still living with daughter and son-in-law at that stage.
I'm getting old; I shall die at some point, who would feed the
cats?

(Well, for the first few days, I would. but after I started to
decompose? I don't want them to get sick.)

[erilar]

In article
<6c7c30e1-4daf-46f9...@x21g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
tphile <tph...@cableone.net> wrote:

> and how many have been traumatized by the death of Bambis mother? and
> not just children. I also refuse to watch the end of Old Yeller.
> Animal shows are very hard to watch because it almost always filled
> with animal torture, suffering or death scenes (including Lassie). I
> have no problem seeing that done to people but not to cute animals.

Same here 8-)

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist

[erilar]

In article <LtwBL...@kithrup.com>,

djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

> I'm coming to the regretful conclusion that I may not be able to
> get any more cats when these two go. It will depend on whether
> I'm still living with daughter and son-in-law at that stage.
> I'm getting old; I shall die at some point, who would feed the
> cats?
>
> (Well, for the first few days, I would. but after I started to
> decompose? I don't want them to get sick.)

I decided not to start with a puppy when my (sob!) last significant
other died, but the new dog is only about 4, so I have to stay healthy
for a while yet.

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist

[tphile]

On Oct 30, 3:29 pm, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> In article <KQfrq.10680$yY3.3...@newsfe01.iad>,

at least you get buried in the backyard no doubt fertilizing a tree
which saves on funeral costs and helps the environment. In fact if
you get buried under a tree you might become an Ent.

[Brian M. Scott]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 14:32:18 GMT, Dorothy J Heydt
<djh...@kithrup.com> wrote in <news:Ltvv1...@kithrup.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written:

[...]

> But in the book (by W. J. Stuart, whoever the heck he was)
> it's just ... not scary. Stuart wasn't much of a writer.

He's Philip MacDonald, better known for his mysteries,
especially those featuring Anthony Gethryn. _The Rasp_,
_The List of Adrian Messenger_, and _Rynox_ were all pretty
good, as I recall.

[...]

Brian

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <0fb0b6ae-5282-4647...@hj4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,

tphile <tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
>On Oct 30, 3:29 pm, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>> In article <KQfrq.10680$yY3.3...@newsfe01.iad>,
>> Kip Williams  <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>
>> >> Even without torture or suffering ... it is a fact of life on
>> >> this planet that humans live much longer than any animal they are
>> >> likely to keep as a pet.  I've outlived all but two of my cats,
>> >> and they are both getting old and creaky (as I am).
>>
>> >I keep having to reconcile myself to the fact that my cat isn't going to
>> >support me in my old age.
>>
>> I'm coming to the regretful conclusion that I may not be able to
>> get any more cats when these two go.  It will depend on whether
>> I'm still living with daughter and son-in-law at that stage.
>> I'm getting old; I shall die at some point, who would feed the
>> cats?
>>
>> (Well, for the first few days, I would.  but after I started to
>> decompose?  I don't want them to get sick.)
>>

>at least you get buried in the backyard

Only if I died in the back yard. At which point the neighbors
might take notice.

>no doubt fertilizing a tree
>which saves on funeral costs and helps the environment. In fact if
>you get buried under a tree you might become an Ent.

Don't laugh, that can be done, in Oregon at least. My sister-in-law
the brilliant, crazy, packrat programmer wanted to be buried
organically. My surviving sister-in-law, who is very clever,
searched around and found a suitable organic graveyard. She
emailed me to ask, "What's a shroud?" I explained to her that a
shroud was a length of linen or other fabric, traditionally nine
yards,* in which the corpse is wrapped before burial. So she
went out and bought nine yards of unbleached linen, wrapped her
sister therein, and drove her out to the cemetery, where she was
buried under a tree.

As of this writing she has not yet turned into an Ent, or if she
has she hasn't notified us.

_____
*Cf. Manly Wade Wellman, "Nine Yards of Other Cloth."

[Robert Carnegie]

But what you have to become before that is really not nice at all.

And it's geographicallly unlikely that any of Dorothy would be buried
in /my/ garden, although outdoor cats may range quite a long way, but,
well, I don't want to be rude, but, er, /not/ welcome.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <cr5v03tyoqf7$.1lzj6itutvwgt$.d...@40tude.net>,

Well, he was off his feed that week, then.

[Brenda Clough]

If you really want an organic interment there are indeed places that do
it. Certainly out on the West Coast.

Brenda

--
My latest novel SPEAK TO OUR DESIRES is available exclusively from Book
View Cafe.
http://www.bookviewcafe.com/index.php/Brenda-Clough/Novels/Speak-to-Our-Desires-Chapter-01

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <j8kqra$n23$2...@dont-email.me>,

Yes, see my other post on my sister-in-law's organic burial under
a tree.

What I want is to be cremated ... take up less space ... and be
buried somewhere (I'll leave that up to my daughter) next to my
husband's ashes (assuming he predeceases me) and my cat
Sebastian's. Sebastian's ashes are in my top bureau drawer and
Meg knows it.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <85a29da6-11c3-480e...@q16g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,

Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>On Oct 30, 10:00 pm, tphile <tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
>> On Oct 30, 3:29 pm, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > In article <KQfrq.10680$yY3.3...@newsfe01.iad>,
>> > Kip Williams  <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > >Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>
>> > >> Even without torture or suffering ... it is a fact of life on
>> > >> this planet that humans live much longer than any animal they are
>> > >> likely to keep as a pet.  I've outlived all but two of my cats,
>> > >> and they are both getting old and creaky (as I am).
>>
>> > >I keep having to reconcile myself to the fact that my cat isn't going to
>> > >support me in my old age.
>>
>> > I'm coming to the regretful conclusion that I may not be able to
>> > get any more cats when these two go.  It will depend on whether
>> > I'm still living with daughter and son-in-law at that stage.
>> > I'm getting old; I shall die at some point, who would feed the
>> > cats?
>>
>> > (Well, for the first few days, I would.  but after I started to
>> > decompose?  I don't want them to get sick.)
>>

>> at least you get buried in the backyard no doubt fertilizing a tree
>> which saves on funeral costs and helps the environment.  In fact if
>> you get buried under a tree you might become an Ent.
>
>But what you have to become before that is really not nice at all.

Ever see a children's book called _The Tenth Good Thing About
Barney_?

The punchline is, "Barney's gone to feed the trees and flowers.
You know, that's a pretty good job for a cat."

>
>And it's geographicallly unlikely that any of Dorothy would be buried
>in /my/ garden, although outdoor cats may range quite a long way, but,
>well, I don't want to be rude, but, er, /not/ welcome.

Don't worry.

[Gene Wirchenko]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 14:31:14 -0400, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:

>On 10/30/11 1:09 PM, David DeLaney wrote:
>> tphile<tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
>>> Bilbo Baggins was a burglar and thief.
>>
>> "Yes, but he was seduced into it by peer pressure from his co-heightants, your
>> Honor! He never meant for it to be any sort of career!"
>
> It was actually all manipulated by that _agent provacateur_ "Gandalf",
>who was sent here from a far-Western country to assist in the
>destabilization of current regimes and meddle in local politics.

Typical of such, he went by so many different names that we may
never know them all.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

If she has indeed become an Ent, then she would not be hasty about
informing you. Or doing anything else.

> ___
> *Cf. Manly Wade Wellman, "Nine Yards of Other Cloth."


--

Now available on Amazon or B&N: One-Eyed Jack.
Greg Kraft could see ghosts. That didn't mean he could stop them...

[jack...@bright.net]

tphile wrote:

>On Oct 30, 5:55 am, jackb...@bright.net wrote:
>> tphile wrote:
>>
>> >BTW Turner Classic Movies Channel has been an outstanding place this
>> >month to see horror movies.  All the great ones.
>>
>> Oh, yeah, and THEM and Forbidden Planet for not-horror sci-fi today
>> (Sunday).
>>
>
>I love both classics, but not-horror? Giant ants surely qualify as
>horror. and the movie was done as a detective mystery so you have
>horror of what they did.and anything with James Whitmore is worth
>watching.

Well, different definitions, and all that. I tend to think of giant
monsters as different from horror. (I was about to lay down the law
that the involvement of the Armed Forces makes the difference, but I
remembered I would have to say in numbers greater than a squad, to
keep The Thing From Another World in horror. (Then, you might bring
up the local militia that gets called up in old horror movies, and
issued pitchforks and torches.))

>I am suprised it hasn't been remade also. I would CGI the
>ants as rat or dog sized and a lot more and a lot faster. Very scary.

Very close to the H. G. Wells story, "The Empire of the Ants."
I imagine Wells's name has greater pull than "THEM" with the
movie-going public. I've thought some "Journey to the Center of the
Earth" movies should have been instead "At the Earth's Core", except
Jules Verne has more name recognition than (ob) Burroughs.

--
-Jack

[Howard Brazee]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 06:43:30 -0700 (PDT), tphile <tph...@cableone.net>
wrote:

>> Oh, yeah, and THEM and Forbidden Planet for not-horror sci-fi today
>> (Sunday).
>>

>> --
>> -Jack

>
>I love both classics, but not-horror? Giant ants surely qualify as
>horror.

For people who are afraid of giant ants.

Fear is very subjective.

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

[T Guy]

On Oct 28, 8:45 pm, tphile <tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
> On Oct 28, 11:00 am, erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>
> > In article <LtqGE0....@kithrup.com>,

> >  djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>

> > > Not to mention that Pixar is scheduled to bring out _John Carter_
> > > next year.
>
> > Oh, if it's Pixar, it should be watchable!
>
> > --
> > Erilar, biblioholic medievalist
>
> It's not Pixar, it's live action Disney and here is the trailer for
> 2012http://youtu.be/6Rf55GTEZ_E
> which might be a good movie but can never be close to the book with
> their family standards.
> no nudity and Dejah Thoris is heavily tattooed.

The female lead is heabvilly tatooed?

Disney's 'family' standards are... not what I would expect.

[erilar]

In article <LtwHK...@kithrup.com>,

djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

> My sister-in-law
> the brilliant, crazy, packrat programmer wanted to be buried
> organically. My surviving sister-in-law, who is very clever,
> searched around and found a suitable organic graveyard. She
> emailed me to ask, "What's a shroud?" I explained to her that a
> shroud was a length of linen or other fabric, traditionally nine
> yards,* in which the corpse is wrapped before burial. So she
> went out and bought nine yards of unbleached linen, wrapped her
> sister therein, and drove her out to the cemetery, where she was
> buried under a tree.
>
> As of this writing she has not yet turned into an Ent, or if she
> has she hasn't notified us.

I absolutely LOVE it!

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <f81887c7-764f-4071...@r28g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,

Well, the link provided above didn't work nohow, but I managed to
find *a* trailer. Dejah Thoris is certainly not tattooed on her
face, and the brief glimpses we got of her adornment look to me
more like jewelry* than tattooing. But one can't really see.

And come on, guys, you can't have the main characters going
around stark naked without getting an X rating and preventing a
lot of people from seeing it.

Other things glimpsed: Carter jumping about twenty feet above
people's heads; the two moons of Mars shown as Much Too Big.
_____
*Lacy filigree jewelry, like that worn by Ilona of Lonabar in the
Lensman books.

[David Johnston]

On 10/31/2011 7:43 AM, T Guy wrote:
> On Oct 28, 8:45 pm, tphile<tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
>> On Oct 28, 11:00 am, erilar<dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> In article<LtqGE0....@kithrup.com>,
>>> djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>
>>>> Not to mention that Pixar is scheduled to bring out _John Carter_
>>>> next year.
>>
>>> Oh, if it's Pixar, it should be watchable!
>>
>>> --
>>> Erilar, biblioholic medievalist
>>
>> It's not Pixar, it's live action Disney and here is the trailer for
>> 2012http://youtu.be/6Rf55GTEZ_E
>> which might be a good movie but can never be close to the book with
>> their family standards.
>> no nudity and Dejah Thoris is heavily tattooed.

You know, the book wasn't actually about the people being naked. That
was in fact just a detail.

>
> The female lead is heabvilly tatooed?

She is not. What looked like tattoos to him in a brief flash of the
character is actually makeup indicating bruises and abrasions in that
scene.

[tphile]

On Oct 31, 10:10 am, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> In article <f81887c7-764f-4071-8b98-a497b9886...@r28g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,

The link works just fine. But if you have trouble just go to Youtube
and search for John Carter 2012 and you will find the official
trailer. or go here http://disney.go.com/johncarter/#video
and no that is NOT bruises on Dejah Thoris. She has reddish brown
tattoos (or body paint) across her shoulders, arms and hips. It
resembles polynesian island natives markings. Maybe that is their
idea of the "Red Men of Helium. and the same is done for the other
colors.

[Lynn McGuire]

You have read _A_Princess_Of_Mars_, right ? John Carter,
being from a heavy gravity planet, could jump very high.

Lynn

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <j8mjb2$ej$3...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
>On 10/31/2011 10:10 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>
>> Other things glimpsed: Carter jumping about twenty feet above
>> people's heads; the two moons of Mars shown as Much Too Big.

>

>You have read _A_Princess_Of_Mars_, right ? John Carter,
>being from a heavy gravity planet, could jump very high.

Yes. I know. That part was well-done. The part about Phobos
and Deimos looking, respectively, about half and a third the size
of Luna seen from Earth, wasn't. They should've been two very
small disks, visibly moving.....

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <dc43ffe7-3889-4c1a...@x21g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,

tphile <tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
>On Oct 31, 10:10 am, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

>> Well, the link provided above didn't work nohow, but I managed to
>> find *a* trailer.

>The link works just fine.

Not for me, it didn't.

But if you have trouble just go to Youtube
>and search for John Carter 2012 and you will find the official
>trailer.

That's what I did.

[Quadibloc]

On Oct 31, 7:10 am, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

> And come on, guys, you can't have the main characters going
> around stark naked without getting an X rating and preventing a
> lot of people from seeing it.

Yes, that's correct; "constant nudity" is one of the conditions for
NC-17 instead of merely R.

Also, in some of the later novels in the series, that everyone goes
around naked on Mars became somewhat ambiguous - there were occasional
hints that the Martian harness actually did, just barely, cover enough
to achieve decency.

But while this is one *unavoidable* bit of inauthenticity, not having
Martians red-skinned, or having them tattooed, and so on, seems like
needless indulgence of creativity.

John Savard

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <Ltxwo...@kithrup.com>,

Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>In article <j8mjb2$ej$3...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
>>On 10/31/2011 10:10 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>
>>> Other things glimpsed: Carter jumping about twenty feet above
>>> people's heads; the two moons of Mars shown as Much Too Big.
>
>>
>>You have read _A_Princess_Of_Mars_, right ? John Carter,
>>being from a heavy gravity planet, could jump very high.
>
>Yes. I know. That part was well-done. The part about Phobos
>and Deimos looking, respectively, about half and a third the size
>of Luna seen from Earth, wasn't. They should've been two very
>small disks, visibly moving.....
>

One you start applying SCIENCE to _A Princess Of Mars_ that way lies
madness..
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[Cryptoengineer]

On Oct 31, 1:26 pm, Quadibloc <jsav...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Oct 31, 7:10 am, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>
> > And come on, guys, you can't have the main characters going
> > around stark naked without getting an X rating and preventing a
> > lot of people from seeing it.
>
> Yes, that's correct; "constant nudity" is one of the conditions for
> NC-17 instead of merely R.

Are you sure? "Prospero's Books" got an R, despite having (non-sexual)
full frontal nudity in almost every scene.

pt

[Brenda Clough]

On 10/30/2011 9:28 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article<j8kqra$n23$2...@dont-email.me>,

Good, that's the most important step: to formulate your wishes and then
tell somebody about it.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <j8n8it$qrf$1...@dont-email.me>,

Oh gosh yes. We've been making wills, setting up a family trust,
all sorts of stuff. I'm also going to write Meg a letter with
details.

[Brenda Clough]

On 10/31/2011 6:52 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article<j8n8it$qrf$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Brenda Clough<Brenda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 10/30/2011 9:28 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>
>>> What I want is to be cremated ... take up less space ... and be
>>> buried somewhere (I'll leave that up to my daughter) next to my
>>> husband's ashes (assuming he predeceases me) and my cat
>>> Sebastian's. Sebastian's ashes are in my top bureau drawer and
>>> Meg knows it.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Good, that's the most important step: to formulate your wishes and then
>> tell somebody about it.
>
> Oh gosh yes. We've been making wills, setting up a family trust,
> all sorts of stuff. I'm also going to write Meg a letter with
> details.
>

You have no idea how many people decide what they want, and then hug the
knowledge to their breast like it was top secret eyes only information.
My father only recently confided his intent to be cremated; he is 85.

[Kip Williams]

Brenda Clough wrote:
> On 10/31/2011 6:52 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

>> Oh gosh yes. We've been making wills, setting up a family trust,
>> all sorts of stuff. I'm also going to write Meg a letter with
>> details.
>
> You have no idea how many people decide what they want, and then hug the
> knowledge to their breast like it was top secret eyes only information.
> My father only recently confided his intent to be cremated; he is 85.

In addition, far too many people put off making their Living Dead Will:
<http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-lesser/a-living-dead-will_b_1034322.html>


"ITEM 2. If I am in a coma or have little or no conscious understanding
with absolutely no hope of recovery, I request that the attending
physicians terminate my vital functions at their discretion, providing I
am immediately buried in an old pet cemetery that was once an Indian
burial ground."


"ITEM 4 (A). In the event that I am bitten by a vampire, not in
conjunction with Item 1, do not exhume and stake my corpse.
Additionally, do not trick me into feeding on a beautiful girl until
morning and then pull the drawn curtains so I burn to ashes, and do not
question the strange wounds appearing on the necks of beautiful women
who seem to have suddenly developed severe and inexplicable anemia. My
health care proxy is instructed only to do the following:
1. Run a prepared obituary that doesn't mention my unnaturally extended
life.
2. Start leaving her windows open at night.

"ITEM 4 (B). If it's a gay vampire who bites me, that's cool, I'm
willing to be open-minded in exchange for eternal life, but please
mention in my obituary that while I was alive I slept with tons of chicks."


Kip W

[Robert A. Woodward]

In article <LtxrH...@kithrup.com>,

djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

> In article
> <f81887c7-764f-4071...@r28g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
> T Guy <Tim.B...@redbridge.gov.uk> wrote:
> >On Oct 28, 8:45�pm, tphile <tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
> >> On Oct 28, 11:00�am, erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >> > In article <LtqGE0....@kithrup.com>,
> >> > �djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> >>
> >> > > Not to mention that Pixar is scheduled to bring out _John Carter_
> >> > > next year.
> >>
> >> > Oh, if it's Pixar, it should be watchable!
> >>
> >> > --
> >> > Erilar, biblioholic medievalist
> >>
> >> It's not Pixar, it's live action Disney and here is the trailer for
> >> 2012http://youtu.be/6Rf55GTEZ_E
> >> which might be a good movie but can never be close to the book with
> >> their family standards.
> >> no nudity and Dejah Thoris is heavily tattooed.
> >
> >The female lead is heabvilly tatooed?
> >
> >Disney's 'family' standards are... not what I would expect.
>
> Well, the link provided above didn't work nohow, but I managed to
> find *a* trailer. Dejah Thoris is certainly not tattooed on her
> face, and the brief glimpses we got of her adornment look to me
> more like jewelry* than tattooing. But one can't really see.

It looks to me that she shows up FIVE* times in the trailer, two of
them show most of her upper body and she has heavy duty markings.


*A distant view from the back
the close up with the jewelry
A scene that shows her shoulders
A close up that only has her face
another scene that shows her left hip as well as left shoulder and
left arm (it's immediately before the shot with the two oversized
moons).

--
Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com>
<http://www.drizzle.com/~robertaw>

[T Guy]

On Oct 31, 6:15 pm, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote:
> In article <LtxwoC.1...@kithrup.com>,

> Dorothy J Heydt <djhe...@kithrup.com> wrote:

> >Yes.  I know.  That part was well-done.  The part about Phobos
> >and Deimos looking, respectively, about half and a third the size
> >of Luna seen from Earth, wasn't.  They should've been two very
> >small disks, visibly moving.....
>
> One you start applying SCIENCE to _A Princess Of Mars_ that way lies
> madness..

The moons in _Under The Moons Of Mars_ visibly move. Deimos chases his
lover, Thuria, across the sky every night. I'm not sure which volume
this is in. Or what the moons are called (Deimos may be what we call
it on Earth).

[T Guy]

On Nov 1, 1:56 pm, T Guy <Tim.Bate...@redbridge.gov.uk> wrote:

> The moons in _Under The Moons Of Mars_ visibly move. Deimos chases his
> lover, Thuria, across the sky every night. I'm not sure which volume
> this is in. Or what the moons are called (Deimos may be what we call
> it on Earth).

Yes, it is. Cluros is the male, slower-moving moon. See, forex, the
first para or two of Chapter IV of _Chessmen of Mars_.

[Quadibloc]

On Nov 1, 6:07 am, T Guy <Tim.Bate...@redbridge.gov.uk> wrote:

> Yes, it is. Cluros is the male, slower-moving moon. See, forex, the
> first para or two of Chapter IV of _Chessmen of Mars_.

Indeed; that was the first thing that turned up in a web search:

http://www.literature.org/authors/burroughs-edgar-rice/the-chessmen-of-mars/chapter-04.html

Mad Thuria and cold, aloof Cluros.

So Phobos is Thuria, with an orbital period of 7.6 hours, and hence a
synodic period of 11.12 hours;

...and Deimos is Cluros, with an orbital period of 30.3 hours, and
hence a synodic period of 131 hours.

So it's true enough that from the surface of Mars, Phobos appears to
move _much_ faster than Deimos, because the orbit of Deimos is nearly
areostationary. Since the orbital period of Deimos is longer than the
Martian rotational period, while that of Phobos is shorter, however,
Thuria should not be overtaking Cluros, but coming to meet him.

John Savard

[Doug Wickström]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 23:15:36 -0400, jack...@bright.net wrote:

>I must have seen a trailer for a re-release of this at the first movie
>I went to a theater to see, a re-(re-re-re-re-re?-)release of "Snow
>White and the Seven Dwarves."

I assume this was in the alternate reality where R.J.J. Tolkein
didn't mis-pluralize dwarfs.

--
Doug Wickström

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <eet1b7l93dqa5lutd...@4ax.com>,

"Mis-" isn't accurate. He deliberately gave the word a different
plural form to distinguish his Dwarves from Disney's silly little
dwarfs. And he points out somewhere that if singular and plural
had gone their own separate ways over the centuries, the plural
of dwarf would be *dwerrows.

[Quadibloc]

On Nov 2, 7:18 am, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

> "Mis-" isn't accurate.  He deliberately gave the word a different
> plural form to distinguish his Dwarves from Disney's silly little
> dwarfs.

Well, a delliberate error is still an error. Although I happen to like
Tolkien's plural better. It is more... respectful... of the beings
named.

John Savard

[Quadibloc]

On Oct 28, 11:33 am, Ahasuerus <ahasue...@email.com> wrote:

> The fact that Kenneth Bulmer's Dray Prescot novels (http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?2220) keep reappearing on the
> (electronic) shelves suggests that there is still some demand for "ERB
> type novels".

I see them at a local used book store as well, but demand for an
existing series that has established itself (after all, Burroughs' own
books also still sell) isn't really indicative IMO. Would a _new_
series of that type be successful; that's the question.

And I think the answer _is_ yes, *but* only with... changes. Maybe
enough changes so that the fact that it's really the "same" kind of
story wouldn't be obvious.

John Savard

[David Johnston]

On 11/2/2011 10:52 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Nov 2, 7:18 am, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>
>> "Mis-" isn't accurate. He deliberately gave the word a different
>> plural form to distinguish his Dwarves from Disney's silly little
>> dwarfs.
>
> Well, a delliberate error is still an error.

By definition that isn't true.

[Wayne Throop]

:: Well, a delliberate error is still an error.

: David Johnston <Da...@block.net>
: By definition that isn't true.

So... if I ask you "what is one plus one", and you deliberately answer "three"
(knowing that the sum is two), your answer is not erronious?

What *would* you call it?

error (er'ror), n.
[...]
2. A wandering or deviation from the right course or standard;
irregularity; mistake; inaccuracy; something made wrong or left
wrong; as, an error in writing or in printing; a clerical error.
[1913 Webster]
[...]

( I specifically call your attention to "made wrong or left wrong",
which seems fairly clearly to include intentional deviations from
the "right course or standard". )

See also

[...]
4. A moral offense; violation of duty; a sin or transgression;
iniquity; fault. --Ps. xix. 12. [1913 Webster]
[...]

[David Johnston]

On 11/2/2011 11:27 AM, Wayne Throop wrote:
> :: Well, a delliberate error is still an error.
>
> : David Johnston<Da...@block.net>
> : By definition that isn't true.
>
> So... if I ask you "what is one plus one", and you deliberately answer "three"
> (knowing that the sum is two), your answer is not erronious?
>

That is correct. My answer is a lie.

[Robert Carnegie]

The kids in _Lord of the Flies_ taking the short-sighted kid's
spectacles to use (successfully) to focus the sunlight and light
fires, comes to mind.

[William December Starr]

In article <13202...@sheol.org>,

thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) said:

> So... if I ask you "what is one plus one", and you deliberately
> answer "three" (knowing that the sum is two), your answer is not
> erronious?
>
> What *would* you call it?

Sarcasm?

-- wds

[jack...@bright.net]

Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

>In article <j8mjb2$ej$3...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
>>On 10/31/2011 10:10 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>
>>> Other things glimpsed: Carter jumping about twenty feet above
>>> people's heads; the two moons of Mars shown as Much Too Big.
>
>>
>>You have read _A_Princess_Of_Mars_, right ? John Carter,
>>being from a heavy gravity planet, could jump very high.
>
>Yes. I know. That part was well-done.

Well, everything falling should always be at 1/3 acceleration, but I
think we'll have to allow for fudging.

>The part about Phobos
>and Deimos looking, respectively, about half and a third the size
>of Luna seen from Earth, wasn't. They should've been two very
>small disks, visibly moving.....

Oh! I definitely allow this! What's the point of having moons if you
can't get decent light from them, and see the phases? If some shot
calls for the moons to be high in the sky, I won't even complain that
they should be eclipsed.

(I was about to mention the nebular hypothesis of planetary formation
in Burroughs's time would have the moons even closer to Mars in the
distant past, then I remembered the suggestion that Barsoom exists in
the past when the currently-dead Mars was only Mostly Dead was made in
the Viking Probe era.
(My preferred suggestion is that it is the far future, when our
terrraforming of Mars has lapsed. Phobos and Deimos are larger -and
properly spherical- moons because they have been hollowed out and
built up as space colonies. The Tree of Life of Barsoom origin myths
is the orbital elevator used back in the age of terraforming.)

--
-Jack

[jack...@bright.net]

No, just my simple mind mistaking it for elf/elves. I can never
remember which one JRRT changed.

(On other fronts, I'm about >this< close to adopting Lewis Carroll's
representation of the contractions ca'n't and wo'n't.)

--
-Jack

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <jdv7b7pcu1hmlma3q...@4ax.com>,

<jack...@bright.net> wrote:
>Doug Wickström wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 23:15:36 -0400, jack...@bright.net wrote:
>>
>>>I must have seen a trailer for a re-release of this at the first movie
>>>I went to a theater to see, a re-(re-re-re-re-re?-)release of "Snow
>>>White and the Seven Dwarves."
>>
>>I assume this was in the alternate reality where R.J.J. Tolkein
>>didn't mis-pluralize dwarfs.
>
>No, just my simple mind mistaking it for elf/elves. I can never
>remember which one JRRT changed.

The plural of "elf" has always been "elves" so far as I know.
Could be Brust was thinking about pulling a Tolkien when he had
his Easterners use "elfs".

>
>(On other fronts, I'm about >this< close to adopting Lewis Carroll's
>representation of the contractions ca'n't and wo'n't.)

And sha'n't

[David DeLaney]

jack...@bright.net <jack...@bright.net> wrote:
>(On other fronts, I'm about >this< close to adopting Lewis Carroll's
>representation of the contractions ca'n't and wo'n't.)

If you do, _please_ adopt sha'n't as well; it confuses the heck out of
people you're arguing with, I find.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <slrnjb82l...@gatekeeper.vic.com>,

David DeLaney <d...@vic.com> wrote:
>jack...@bright.net <jack...@bright.net> wrote:
>>(On other fronts, I'm about >this< close to adopting Lewis Carroll's
>>representation of the contractions ca'n't and wo'n't.)

Does anybody know whether that was the accepted spelling in
Carroll's day? I sure don't.

>
>If you do, _please_ adopt sha'n't as well; it confuses the heck out of
>people you're arguing with, I find.

The thinking behind that multi-apostrophied spelling, so far as I
can tell, is that every time a letter is elided there should be
an apostrophe to replace it.

Hence the old New Yorker cartoon: sailor in upper bunk, writing a
letter, to sailor in lower bunk: 'Hey, Joe, how many apostrophes
in "fo'c's'le" ?'

[Gene Wirchenko]

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 13:20:47 -0400, d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David
DeLaney) wrote:

>jack...@bright.net <jack...@bright.net> wrote:
>>(On other fronts, I'm about >this< close to adopting Lewis Carroll's
>>representation of the contractions ca'n't and wo'n't.)
>
>If you do, _please_ adopt sha'n't as well; it confuses the heck out of
>people you're arguing with, I find.

And take up greengrocering.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko