“The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels” by Alex Epstein

Lynn McGuire

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Apr 23, 2018, 4:34:59 PM4/23/18

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I attended a speech by this guy last week on fossil, hydro, and nuclear
energy. He had the most interesting perspective on electricity, “The
Moral Case for Fossil Fuels” by Alex Epstein:
https://www.amazon.com/Moral-Case-Fossil-Fuels/dp/1591847443

“For decades, environmentalists have told us that using fossil fuels is
a self-destructive addiction that will destroy our planet. Yet at the
same time, by every measure of human well-being, from life expectancy to
clean water to climate safety, life has been getting better and better.”

“Mankind’s use of fossil fuels is supremely virtuous—because human life
is the standard of value and because using fossil fuels transforms our
environment to make it wonderful for human life.””

Note, I have not read his book but I plan to. He has a website at:
http://industrialprogress.com/

Lynn

-dsr-

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Apr 23, 2018, 8:08:05 PM4/23/18

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Science fiction is great, but when you turn those worldbuilding skills
to active deceit in order to make a profit, there's something deeply
wrong with you.

-dsr-

Lynn McGuire

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Apr 23, 2018, 10:35:29 PM4/23/18

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How did you cook your dinner tonight ? Did you use electricity ?
Natural Gas ?

3 billion people on this planet used biomass or animal dung to cook
their dinner tonight. They deserve better. We need to spread the usage
of fossil fuels to them also.

Lynn

Quadibloc

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Apr 24, 2018, 1:56:57 AM4/24/18

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On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 8:35:29 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire wrote:

> 3 billion people on this planet used biomass or animal dung to cook
> their dinner tonight. They deserve better. We need to spread the usage
> of fossil fuels to them also.

That is true, but it doesn't change the fact that increasing the use of fossil
fuels will cause a net input of carbon dioxide to the atmosphere. This will, as
scientists know, change the climate to make it warmer. This will cause the crops
poor people in tropical countries depend on for their food to fail, and it's
unlikely they will be able to adapt quickly to different food sources.

Global warming is going to kill people in poor countries long before the rich
countries will have much to worry about from rising sea levels. But we are
already losing coral reefs.

If we stopped using fossil fuels to produce electricity, perhaps there would be
enough room to extend fossil fuel use to more people for cooking. But
electricity generated by nuclear power would be better for them too, where it
can be provided in ways that avoid a proliferation issue.

John Savard

Peter Trei

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Apr 24, 2018, 8:42:34 AM4/24/18

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That 3 billion deserve not to breath smoke, and not to spend vast amounts of
time gathering fuel.

Electrification, whether from nukes, hydro, wind, solar, or other non-fossil
fuel sources, can provide that without damaging the planet.

pt

Kevrob

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Apr 24, 2018, 10:54:26 AM4/24/18

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Gathering firewood contributes to desertification, if trees and
shrubs are cut down for fuel. There are other important causes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertification

> Electrification, whether from nukes, hydro, wind, solar, or other non-fossil
> fuel sources, can provide that without damaging the planet.
>

Isn't it true that every power source has a drawback? Damning
rivers for hydro conflicts with preserving fish resources, as
one example.

Ideally, we could get power from renewables and nukes, and use
petrochemicals for lubricants and chemical feedstock for other
processes. Even were I a professional in the relevant fields,
I'd hesitate to declare "we have to stop using petrochemical
fuels by X/X/XXXX," since so many predictions of oil doomsday
have been so wrong.

ExxonMobil is running commercials touting research in algae
fuel. Algae has been a wonder tech in SF for a long time.
ISTR reprocessed algae as being a staple food in Asimov's
CAVES OF STEEL.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae_fuel

I'm going to order an "algae `chicken' sandwich" Real Soon Now.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/bioenergy/articles/6-commercial-products-you-probably-didn-t-know-are-made-algae-you-probably

Kevin R

Kevrob

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Apr 24, 2018, 11:13:06 AM4/24/18

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On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 10:54:26 AM UTC-4, Kevrob wrote:

> ExxonMobil is running commercials touting research in algae
> fuel. Algae has been a wonder tech in SF for a long time.
> ISTR reprocessed algae as being a staple food in Asimov's
> CAVES OF STEEL.
>

Correction: algae may have been a source I remembered,
but it was yeast that was definitely mentioned.

http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=2636

BTW, handy site for "wheree did I read about......?"

http://www.technovelgy.com/

Kevin R

Leo Sgouros

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Apr 24, 2018, 11:30:27 AM4/24/18

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You will find yeast steaks as ships fare (MacArthur) in "Mote In God's Eye".

Leo Sgouros

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Apr 24, 2018, 11:31:50 AM4/24/18

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e Mote in God's Eye - The-Eye.eu!
https://the-eye.eu/.../Larry%20Niven%20and%20Jerry%20Pournelle%20-%20The%20M...
by L Niven - ‎Cited by 42 - ‎Related articles
The Mote In God's Eye. Larry Niven. Pocket Books ... 5 The Face of God. 6 The Light Sail. 7 The Crazy Eddie Probe. 8 The Alien. 9 His Highness Has Decided. 10 The Planet Killer. 11 The Church of Him. 12 Descent into Hell ...... Ship's fodder: bioplast, yeast steaks, New Washington corn plant; but. Blaine had had no ..

etc.

Lynn McGuire

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Apr 24, 2018, 1:42:43 PM4/24/18

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Thanks for showing the area commented on.

Man caused Global Warming is a farce. The climate has always changed
and it will always change. Trying to lock the climate into a certain
pattern is a fools errand.

Thanks,
Lynn

Robert Carnegie

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Apr 24, 2018, 4:26:25 PM4/24/18

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On Tuesday, 24 April 2018 03:35:29 UTC+1, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 4/23/2018 6:30 PM, -dsr- wrote:
> > On 2018-04-23, Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I attended a speech by this guy last week on fossil, hydro, and nuclear
> >> energy. He had the most interesting perspective on electricity, “The
> >> Moral Case for Fossil Fuels” by Alex Epstein:
> >> https://www.amazon.com/Moral-Case-Fossil-Fuels/dp/1591847443
> >>
> >> “For decades, environmentalists have told us that using fossil fuels is
> >> a self-destructive addiction that will destroy our planet. Yet at the
> >> same time, by every measure of human well-being, from life expectancy to
> >> clean water to climate safety, life has been getting better and better.”
> >>
> >> “Mankind’s use of fossil fuels is supremely virtuous—because human life
> >> is the standard of value and because using fossil fuels transforms our
> >> environment to make it wonderful for human life.””
> >>
> >> Note, I have not read his book but I plan to. He has a website at:
> >> http://industrialprogress.com/
> >
> > Science fiction is great, but when you turn those worldbuilding skills
> > to active deceit in order to make a profit, there's something deeply
> > wrong with you.
> >
> > -dsr-
>
> How did you cook your dinner tonight ? Did you use electricity ?
> Natural Gas ?

Microwaves are from pace, right? :-) The Big Bang!

Kevrob

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Apr 24, 2018, 4:46:09 PM4/24/18

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On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 4:26:25 PM UTC-4, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Tuesday, 24 April 2018 03:35:29 UTC+1, Lynn McGuire wrote:

> > How did you cook your dinner tonight ? Did you use electricity ?
> > Natural Gas ?
>
> Microwaves are from pace, right? :-) The Big Bang!

Missing s? ..space... for ...pace.... ?

> > 3 billion people on this planet used biomass or animal dung to cook
> > their dinner tonight. They deserve better. We need to spread the usage
> > of fossil fuels to them also.

I think I'd like to have one of these for summer "barbecues."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cooker

We may not get enough direct sunlight on the side of the
hill I live on, though, for that to be efficient.

Kevin R