A typo up there with Rouge Queen?

[Anthony Nance]

So last night I sat down to start reading Bujold's Komarr, as found
in the hardback omnibus Miles In Love. I took off the slip cover[1],
and right there plain as day, written in shiny silver lettering along
the black spine:
"Louis McMaster Bujold".

Louis?
Tony
[1] For some reason it bothers me to read a book with the
slip cover on. I do put it back on when I go to reshelve.

[Jack Bohn]

Whatever Anthony Nance wrote, I'll tangent right away from the postscript:

>
> [1] For some reason it bothers me to read a book with the
> slip cover on. I do put it back on when I go to reshelve.

A long time ago I was told that the early booksellers (in the street!) just sold them as sheaves of papers, and the purchasers would get them bound. To protect them, a cover sheet was placed on the outside. To identify them, title, author, publisher, was put on the sheet. Customers thought this sheet would make a good title page to begin the book. So, to protect it, another cover sheet was added; this had just the title.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that the slipcover is designed to protect the hardback cover during reading and handling, particularly now that they are made of material less durable than leather.

--
-Jack

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <27de5951-b773-4af3...@googlegroups.com>,

Also, that it's easier to put artwork (should you feel inclined
to do so.) on a sheet of wrapping paper than on the exterior of a
HB.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <p2l9km$gms$1...@dont-email.me>,

Anthony Nance <na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>So last night I sat down to start reading Bujold's Komarr, as found
>in the hardback omnibus Miles In Love. I took off the slip cover[1],
>and right there plain as day, written in shiny silver lettering along
>the black spine:
>"Louis McMaster Bujold".
>
>Louis?

Well, Wilma Shiras was published as "Wilmar". I don't know
whether it was Campbell's fault or some typesetter.

I met her once. Very nice lady, showed me pictures of her
children.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <p21Gw...@kithrup.com>,

With the stodgey art they put on hardbacks, it hardly matters.
(Though it's somewhat better these days).
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

I have a set of O. Henry collections from the early 20th century. The
dustjackets are exactly that -- blank white paper that did nothing at
all but keep dust off.

It's pretty thin paper. If it was meant to protect the book during
reading and handling, I think it was under-engineered.




--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Tom Derringer in the Tunnels of Terror.
See http://www.watt-evans.com/TomDerringerintheTunnelsofTerror.shtml

[Robert Woodward]

In article <p2l9km$gms$1...@dont-email.me>,

na...@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) wrote:

> So last night I sat down to start reading Bujold's Komarr, as found
> in the hardback omnibus Miles In Love. I took off the slip cover[1],
> and right there plain as day, written in shiny silver lettering along
> the black spine:
> "Louis McMaster Bujold".
>

Oh, I don't know. Take a look at the March 1991 paperback (1st edition)
of _Generation Warriors_ by Anne McCaffrey and Elizabeth Moon (it's the
3rd of a sharecropping trilogy based on McCaffrey's _Dinosaur Planet_ &
Dinosaur Planet Survivors_). The inside title page credits it to Anne
McCaffrey and Jody Lynn Nye (somebody used the title page of the 2nd
book in the trilogy, _Death of Sleep_, which Nye wrote as the base and
didn't change it enough). BTW, the SF Book Club edition has the correct
title page.

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
ã-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robe...@drizzle.com

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

On 1/4/18 8:19 AM, Anthony Nance wrote:
> So last night I sat down to start reading Bujold's Komarr, as found
> in the hardback omnibus Miles In Love. I took off the slip cover[1],
> and right there plain as day, written in shiny silver lettering along
> the black spine:
> "Louis McMaster Bujold".

The TPB of Phoenix Rising had on the spine the name of the author:

Rye E. Spoor.



--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.dreamwidth.org

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 15:05:38 -0500, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:

>On 1/4/18 8:19 AM, Anthony Nance wrote:
>> So last night I sat down to start reading Bujold's Komarr, as found
>> in the hardback omnibus Miles In Love. I took off the slip cover[1],
>> and right there plain as day, written in shiny silver lettering along
>> the black spine:
>> "Louis McMaster Bujold".
>
>
> The TPB of Phoenix Rising had on the spine the name of the author:
>
> Rye E. Spoor.

That's up on my shelf with four more TPBs of yours, typefaces all in
line, and I still never noticed that. Expectations, eh?

Cheers - Jaimie
--
220 mail.sessile.org ESMTP Sendmail 8.17.2 ICBM ENABLED ; Wed, 24 Mar 2021 15:04:40 GMT
HELO spammers.org
250 mail.sessile.org
MAIL FROM:<scum...@spammers.org>
550 you have four minutes to say goodbye to your family

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

On 1/4/18 3:13 PM, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 15:05:38 -0500, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
> <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> On 1/4/18 8:19 AM, Anthony Nance wrote:
>>> So last night I sat down to start reading Bujold's Komarr, as found
>>> in the hardback omnibus Miles In Love. I took off the slip cover[1],
>>> and right there plain as day, written in shiny silver lettering along
>>> the black spine:
>>> "Louis McMaster Bujold".
>>
>>
>> The TPB of Phoenix Rising had on the spine the name of the author:
>>
>> Rye E. Spoor.
>
> That's up on my shelf with four more TPBs of yours, typefaces all in
> line, and I still never noticed that. Expectations, eh?
>

Tony Daniel went AAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH!!!! when I told him.

Princess Holy Aura almost ended up with the same author misspelling on
the running head AND on the title page!

[Ahasuerus]

On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 5:03:30 PM UTC-5, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
> On 1/4/18 3:13 PM, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
> > On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 15:05:38 -0500, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
> > <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 1/4/18 8:19 AM, Anthony Nance wrote:
> >>> So last night I sat down to start reading Bujold's Komarr, as found
> >>> in the hardback omnibus Miles In Love. I took off the slip cover[1],
> >>> and right there plain as day, written in shiny silver lettering along
> >>> the black spine:
> >>> "Louis McMaster Bujold".
> >>
> >> The TPB of Phoenix Rising had on the spine the name of the author:
> >>
> >> Rye E. Spoor.
> >
> > That's up on my shelf with four more TPBs of yours, typefaces all in
> > line, and I still never noticed that. Expectations, eh?
>
> Tony Daniel went AAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH!!!! when I told him.
>
> Princess Holy Aura almost ended up with the same author misspelling on
> the running head AND on the title page!

Have you considered adopting a more user-friendly nom de plume like
"R. E. Spoor" or perhaps "C. Fleckeri"?

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Ahasuerus <ahas...@email.com> wrote in
news:40044ac7-f397-47ea...@googlegroups.com:

Or "Bob Smith"?

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

If I have to reinvent myself, maybe!

[Ahasuerus]

Something masculine like "Alexander Blade" or "Ivar Jorgensen" may be
a good bet!

[Quadibloc]

On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 10:10:31 PM UTC-7, Ahasuerus wrote:

> Something masculine like "Alexander Blade" or "Ivar Jorgensen" may be
> a good bet!

Unfortunately, "Dash Riprock" is taken...

John Savard

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <e9bd60d7-3623-44b2...@googlegroups.com>,

And Bolt Upright

[Ninapenda Jibini]

t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote in
news:fb8hu5...@mid.individual.net:

> In article
> <e9bd60d7-3623-44b2...@googlegroups.com>,
> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 10:10:31 PM UTC-7, Ahasuerus
>>wrote:
>>
>>> Something masculine like "Alexander Blade" or "Ivar Jorgensen"
>>> may be a good bet!
>>
>>Unfortunately, "Dash Riprock" is taken...
>>
>>John Savard
>
> And Bolt Upright

And Chuck Tingle.

--
Terry Austin

[Dan Tilque]

Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
> t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote in
> news:fb8hu5...@mid.individual.net:
>
>> In article
>> <e9bd60d7-3623-44b2...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 10:10:31 PM UTC-7, Ahasuerus
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Something masculine like "Alexander Blade" or "Ivar Jorgensen"
>>>> may be a good bet!
>>> Unfortunately, "Dash Riprock" is taken...
>>>

>> And Bolt Upright
>
> And Chuck Tingle.

How about Manley Thews? Is that taken?


--
Dan Tilque

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Dan Tilque <dti...@frontier.com> wrote in news:p2oj26$g8q$2@dont-
email.me:

According to Amazon, no, it's not. I think we have a winner!

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

[Leo Sgouros]

http://mst3k.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Nicknames_for_Dave_Ryder

[Kevrob]

On Friday, January 5, 2018 at 2:33:11 PM UTC-5, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
> Dan Tilque <dti...@frontier.com> wrote in news:p2oj26$g8q$2@dont-
> email.me:
>
> > Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
> >> t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote in
> >> news:fb8hu5...@mid.individual.net:
> >>
> >>> In article
> >>> <e9bd60d7-3623-44b2...@googlegroups.com>,
> >>> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> >>>> On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 10:10:31 PM UTC-7, Ahasuerus
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Something masculine like "Alexander Blade" or "Ivar Jorgensen"
> >>>>> may be a good bet!
> >>>> Unfortunately, "Dash Riprock" is taken...
> >>>>
> >>> And Bolt Upright
> >>
> >> And Chuck Tingle.
> >
> > How about Manley Thews? Is that taken?
> >
> According to Amazon, no, it's not. I think we have a winner!

Would "Manly Wade Thews" be too obscure?

Kevin R

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

Hannibal "NOVA" Gunn.

[Juho Julkunen]

In article <c525bf82-2d57-4e55...@googlegroups.com>,
kev...@my-deja.com says...

Not around here, at least.

--
Juho Julkunen

[Cryptoengineer]

Juho Julkunen <giao...@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:MPG.34bb08863...@news.kolumbus.fi:

This is what is known in the trade as a 'side channel sttack',
and they come in many weird and wonderful forms, such as
modulating IP packet delays to leak info.

pt

[Steve Coltrin]

begin fnord

djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:

> Also, that it's easier to put artwork (should you feel inclined
> to do so.) on a sheet of wrapping paper than on the exterior of a
> HB.

Academic and large print hardcovers almost universally put their cover
text directly on the boards. It seems to work fairly well.

--
Steve Coltrin spco...@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Steve Coltrin <spco...@omcl.org> wrote in
news:m2r2qzu...@kelutral.omcl.org:

> begin fnord
> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>
>> Also, that it's easier to put artwork (should you feel inclined
>> to do so.) on a sheet of wrapping paper than on the exterior of
>> a HB.
>
> Academic and large print hardcovers almost universally put their
> cover text directly on the boards. It seems to work fairly
> well.
>

And textbooks are known for their . . . outrageous prices.

[Anthony Nance]

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Steve Coltrin <spco...@omcl.org> wrote in
> news:m2r2qzu...@kelutral.omcl.org:
>
>> begin fnord
>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>
>>> Also, that it's easier to put artwork (should you feel inclined
>>> to do so.) on a sheet of wrapping paper than on the exterior of
>>> a HB.
>>
>> Academic and large print hardcovers almost universally put their
>> cover text directly on the boards. It seems to work fairly
>> well.
>>
> And textbooks are known for their . . . outrageous prices.
>

And often their captive audiences - many (most?[1]) academic hardcovers
are purchased because they're required.

Tony
[1] By volume sold, maybe? (not by numbers of titles)

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

na...@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) wrote in
news:p35el4$uor$8...@dont-email.me:

The two phenomenon do appear to go together, yes.

[Jay E. Morris]

Had a professor who required us to buy the textbook he'd written, which
wasn't published yet but was reproduced by the College copy shop and
available in the bookstore. Be sure to inform him of any errors,
misspellings, or grammar problems.

[Default User]

Rip Haywire.


Brian

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <p35psi$99p$1...@dont-email.me>,

Oh, definitely!

And hold on to your copy-shop copy; in a few decades it may be
worth something as providing insight to your professor's writing
methods.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

[Robert Carnegie]

Or ethics?

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
news:p2Czr...@kithrup.com:

Well, there wouldn't be much point in selling to back (if they'd
buy it back) anyway, since next semester will be a "new" edition
(with the proofreading corrections).

[Jay E. Morris]

I got to know him somewhat. The man had no problem with ethics. No
ethics, no problem.

[Ninapenda Jibini]

"Jay E. Morris" <mor...@epsilon3.com> wrote in
news:p36kol$g4t$1...@dont-email.me:

That's why he'd need students to point any out to him that they
happened across. It might make a good paper, academically speaking.
Publish or die!

--
Terry Austin

[William Hyde]

On Wednesday, January 10, 2018 at 2:34:44 PM UTC-5, Jay wrote:
> On 1/10/2018 10:23 AM, Anthony Nance wrote:
> > Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Steve Coltrin <spco...@omcl.org> wrote in
> >> news:m2r2qzu...@kelutral.omcl.org:
> >>
> >>> begin fnord
> >>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
> >>>
> >>>> Also, that it's easier to put artwork (should you feel inclined
> >>>> to do so.) on a sheet of wrapping paper than on the exterior of
> >>>> a HB.
> >>>
> >>> Academic and large print hardcovers almost universally put their
> >>> cover text directly on the boards. It seems to work fairly
> >>> well.
> >>>
> >> And textbooks are known for their . . . outrageous prices.
> >>
> >
> > And often their captive audiences - many (most?[1]) academic hardcovers
> > are purchased because they're required.
> >
> > Tony
> > [1] By volume sold, maybe? (not by numbers of titles)
> >
>
> Had a professor who required us to buy the textbook he'd written,

I had the opposite, a professor who told us to photocopy the text he'd written, as the publisher had put an outrageous price on it.

William Hyde

[Kevrob]

I had a European history professor, one "Alfred D Low" who assigned
one of his books because, frankly, he was a leading scholar in the
areas involved (Central and Eastern European history) and his was
considered one of the newest and best.

When I went back to finish my degree in the 80s, we had the
"copy-shop" textbook phenomenon. Instructors would arrange to
have readings photocopied and bound, not just from textbooks,
but journal articles and data sets. These have cone to be known
as "coursepacks," and after court decisions, the most famous involving
the Kinko's copy shops, purchased by FedEx some time back, it came
to pass that they are excluded from "fair use" and the copyright
holders have to agree to participate and get paid a royalty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coursepacks also

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Clearance_Center

Beats the hell out of fighting for reserve copies at the library!

Kevin R

[Default User]

I had a class where we used the professor's text. He told us that he didn't get royalties from any sold in the University bookstore.


Brian

[Wolffan]

On 10Jan 2018, Jay E. Morris wrote
(in article <p35psi$99p$1...@dont-email.me>):

Heh. We had a class which was required for all freshmen. Everybody, no matter
what major. (Freshman Chemistry) It was taught using a spiral-bound paperback
produced by the university print shop, authored by the prof, who was also the
Dean of the Freshman Year of Studies (some people may be able to think of a
reason why all freshmen had to take that class; two, actually, one being that
it fulfilled part of the Arts & Parties guys’ science requirements). The
book did not change, year in, year out, so upperclassmen would sell their old
copies to fresh fish, but it was cheap in the bookstore, and older copies
fell apart after three-four years anyway. That class was taught in the
largest room on campus, and there was a quiz every class session, (I had it
MWF, 08:00) which was easy if you had the book, not so easy if you didn’t.
The Arts & Parties guys hated it; us engineering and science guys would take
the quiz and use the rest of the two hours to catch up on our sleep.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <0001HW.200A58CB01...@news.supernews.com>,

Wolffan <akwo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Heh. We had a class which was required for all freshmen. Everybody, no matter
>what major. (Freshman Chemistry)

Heh. Sounds like the obligatory daily lecture, "The Structure of
the Woirld," in Stevermer's _A College of Magics._ Other than
attending that lecture, students studied the Trivium and the
Quadrivium.

[Mark Bestley]

This seems to be a US problem.

On my maths course we had one lecturer who used hios own book - and it
was the worst set of lectures.

Many books were old one was 26 years (and 36 from its first edition) and
now on the course for one part they use the same book I did 40 years ago
and that was published 50 years ago this year.
>https://www.amazon.co.uk/Introduction-Probability-Theory-Its-Applications/dp/0471257087>
This was a maths course and I suspect English, History etc would have
older books.

At the end of year pupils sold their books to the secondhand shops
(even the main booksellers had a second hand department) for purchase by
the next year.

--
Mark

[J. Clarke]

On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 18:02:50 +0000, news{@bestley.co.uk (Mark Bestley)
wrote:

When I was in school in any of several different US universities this
was the norm. However sometime between then and now some of the
publishers hit upon the idea of doing a new revision every year so
students couldn't use the secondhand copies.

[John Dallman]

In article <oh7n5dpj4f2d51pio...@4ax.com>,

jclarke...@gmail.com (J. Clarke) wrote:

> When I was in school in any of several different US universities
> this was the norm. However sometime between then and now some
> of the publishers hit upon the idea of doing a new revision every
> year so students couldn't use the secondhand copies.

Now, that's just greedy. AKA "we've been taken over by a larger
publisher."

When I was doing the UK equivalent of high school, two of our maths
teachers were writing a set of maths textbooks, and used their pupils to
test the exercises.

At college, doing Physics, I found the Engineering students were using my
maths teachers' textbooks.

John

[Mark Bestley]

Even that seems odd to me. Each course has a written syllabus. Lectures,
books, tutorials are all a help in learning this but you can get the
information from any of these or other books.

--
Mark

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

On 1/15/18 7:49 AM, Mark Bestley wrote:

> J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> When I was in school in any of several different US universities this
>> was the norm. However sometime between then and now some of the
>> publishers hit upon the idea of doing a new revision every year so
>> students couldn't use the secondhand copies.
>
> Even that seems odd to me. Each course has a written syllabus. Lectures,
> books, tutorials are all a help in learning this but you can get the
> information from any of these or other books.
>

The textbook companies will helpfully send you a syllabus and other
materials tailored to your school, so that the edition you get is ONLY
FOR YOUR SCHOOL (i.e., Mathematics Textbook, Hudson Valley Community
College Edition), meaning that not only can't you sell or make use of
used copies, you can't even buy one anywhere other than at your school's
bookstore or at a site THEY give you.

One of the best rackets around.

[Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha]

j...@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) wrote in
news:memo.2018011...@jgd.cix.co.uk:

> In article <oh7n5dpj4f2d51pio...@4ax.com>,
> jclarke...@gmail.com (J. Clarke) wrote:
>
>> When I was in school in any of several different US
>> universities this was the norm. However sometime between then
>> and now some of the publishers hit upon the idea of doing a new
>> revision every year so students couldn't use the secondhand
>> copies.
>
> Now, that's just greedy. AKA "we've been taken over by a larger
> publisher."
>

Well, yes. It's an easy thing, when you have a captive audience who
believe (and not without reason) that their future is at stake.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

[Quadibloc]

On Monday, January 15, 2018 at 5:57:43 AM UTC-7, Mark Bestley wrote:

> Even that seems odd to me. Each course has a written syllabus. Lectures,
> books, tutorials are all a help in learning this but you can get the
> information from any of these or other books.

If nothing else, assignments are handed out from among exercises
included in the textbook.

John Savard

[J. Clarke]

On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 12:49:43 +0000, news{@bestley.co.uk (Mark Bestley)

What happens wherever you are when the prof says "Turn in exercises 1,
3, and 7" and the ones you turn in are from a different edition with
different numbering?

[Mark Bestley]

The excercises are given by the tutor - either dictated or on handouts
or do question X in the exam paper the University set in year Y. ie the
questions are independant of the means used to teach.

--
Mark

[J. Clarke]

On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 21:37:43 +0000, news{@bestley.co.uk (Mark Bestley)

In this context what does "tutor" mean. In the US a "tutor" is
someone a student or his parents hire to help a student with
schoolwork.

And exams are independent of homework.

[Moriarty]

On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 8:55:37 AM UTC+11, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 21:37:43 +0000, news{@bestley.co.uk (Mark Bestley)
> wrote:

<snip>

> >> What happens wherever you are when the prof says "Turn in exercises 1,
> >> 3, and 7" and the ones you turn in are from a different edition with
> >> different numbering?
> >
> >The excercises are given by the tutor - either dictated or on handouts
> >or do question X in the exam paper the University set in year Y. ie the
> >questions are independant of the means used to teach.
>
> In this context what does "tutor" mean. In the US a "tutor" is
> someone a student or his parents hire to help a student with
> schoolwork.
>
> And exams are independent of homework.

When I went to Uni there were two types (*) of class contact:

1) Lectures where the prof would tell us stuff and we'd all write down what he/she said/wrote. Questions weren't discouraged but were more or less impractical in, say, a first year Algebra lecture of 300 people. The person giving the lecture was a full time academic and employee of the uni.

2) Tutorials, much smaller classes, usually no more than 20 people where questions could be asked, examples worked through, past papers gone over etc. The person running that was a tutor. I taught first year algebra and calculus tutorials for five years while a postgrad, and it was fairly common for postgrads to earn a few extra bucks that way.

Neither lectures or tutorials were compulsory but we still were required to take the roll in tutorials. I think the only thing it was used for was to check students' attitudes in the event they made a claim for special consideration when they failed an exam.

I suspect that's what Mark meant.

It's much more complicated these days. My daughter is at uni and much of the class contact is by webinar or podcast or somesuch.

(*) Ignoring the practical subjects where labs were also required.

-Moriarty

[Kevrob]

On Monday, January 15, 2018 at 6:11:57 PM UTC-5, Moriarty wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 8:55:37 AM UTC+11, J. Clarke wrote:
> > On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 21:37:43 +0000, news{@bestley.co.uk (Mark Bestley)
> > wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > >> What happens wherever you are when the prof says "Turn in exercises 1,
> > >> 3, and 7" and the ones you turn in are from a different edition with
> > >> different numbering?
> > >
> > >The excercises are given by the tutor - either dictated or on handouts
> > >or do question X in the exam paper the University set in year Y. ie the
> > >questions are independant of the means used to teach.
> >
> > In this context what does "tutor" mean. In the US a "tutor" is
> > someone a student or his parents hire to help a student with
> > schoolwork.
> >
> > And exams are independent of homework.
>
> When I went to Uni there were two types (*) of class contact:
>
> 1) Lectures where the prof would tell us stuff and we'd all write down what he/she said/wrote. Questions weren't discouraged but were more or less impractical in, say, a first year Algebra lecture of 300 people. The person giving the lecture was a full time academic and employee of the uni.
>

That would be an instructor, in the US. Those lecturing to classes
that large are usually not adjunct faculty, but somewhere on the
tenure track: associate Prof, assistant Prof, full Prof, every
once in a while a visiting Professor.

> 2) Tutorials, much smaller classes, usually no more than 20 people where questions could be asked, examples worked through, past papers gone over etc. The person running that was a tutor. I taught first year algebra and calculus tutorials for five years while a postgrad, and it was fairly common for postgrads to earn a few extra bucks that way.
>

The guy or gal who meets with the smaller groups of students is a
"teaching assistant," or TA. In science classes there are also
"lab assistants." These are usually grad students, acting as
the instructor's assistant as part of the deal giving the grad
student a break on tuition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teaching_assistant#Graduate

> Neither lectures or tutorials were compulsory but we still were required to take the roll in tutorials. I think the only thing it was used for was to check students' attitudes in the event they made a claim for special consideration when they failed an exam.
>

I enrolled in an honors track, and as a result was never in any of
those monster classes. I think we had nearly 100 in a "Physics for Poets"
2-semester course I took as a freshman. I had skipped Physics in
high school, and need to science coursed for humanities core
curriculum requirement. There was no lab, so we didn't have any TAs or
lab assistants.

My fellow freshmen had a 3-day a week, hour-long "Rise of Western
Civilization" course given in the campus movie theatre, which
held 600 students. One day a week they met with a TA, and were
subjected to quizzes. Meanwhile, I was in a similar course with
20-30 classmates, and could interact with the professor. English
Comp en masse was something else I avoided.

> I suspect that's what Mark meant.
>
> It's much more complicated these days. My daughter is at uni and much of the class contact is by webinar or podcast or somesuch.
>

The other large classes tended to be things like introductory
Biology and Chemistry, where Liberal Arts B.A and B.S majors,
Engineering students, pre-meds, nursing students, those aiming
at other health fields like Medical Technologist had to punch
their "basic science" tickets before going on to take fun stuff
like Organic Chemistry or Materials Science.

IMS, there were sections with higher course numbers for the
science and engineering majors, and lower numbers for those
of us merely rounding ourselves out in the old-fashioned
"liberal arts" sense.

Besides instructors who are professors, or some junior variant,
there are mere instructors. These guys are academic nomads, often
teaching at more than one campus, and never knowing from year to
year where they will get hired next. I had pretty good luck
with those. I learned Macroeconomics from someone who had a
full time job doing econometrics a local Fortune 500 company.
I took two introductory computer programming classes from a
woman who worked full time for the local Bell phone company,
in the days before all the individual Bells merged into RBOCs,
aka "Baby Bells." I had an instructor for a sophomore level
intro to philosophy class who was working on his doctorate.
He was a natural teacher. I had previously taken that class in
the honors track, with a professor teaching, and that fellow
made my head swim. Well, that and the fact that I took it
in the semester I got sick and had to withdraw from the course.

My university had about 8 or 9 thousand undergrads, and a total
enrollment of 10-12 k, so it was measurably smaller than the
big state universities. I heard horror stories from transfers
from Enormous State U that all their freshman year classes were
large lecture hall, sink or swim, almost never get to speak to
the instructor experiences. Many interesting oaths were sworn
in the direction of supposedly brilliant TAs whose Ingrish
proficiency was so poor that one could not get an answer, especially
in courses like Calculus or the prerequisites for Calc that not
everybody's high school taught. I had a sub-continental math
professor, who did his computations at the blackboard under
in breath in Hindi or something else from his homeland, but
when he spoke English it was understandable, if accented.
It helped that my HS math teachers had covered all the same stuff!

Some of my midwestern classmates had more of a problem. Back
home on Long Island my family doctor was a Pakistani immigrant.
Prof D didn't sound too strange to me after that!

This was all 35-40ish years or so ago, give or take.

Kevin R

[Moriarty]

On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 10:57:12 AM UTC+11, Kevrob wrote:

<snips>

> My university had about 8 or 9 thousand undergrads, and a total
> enrollment of 10-12 k, so it was measurably smaller than the
> big state universities. I heard horror stories from transfers
> from Enormous State U that all their freshman year classes were
> large lecture hall, sink or swim, almost never get to speak to
> the instructor experiences. Many interesting oaths were sworn
> in the direction of supposedly brilliant TAs whose Ingrish
> proficiency was so poor that one could not get an answer, especially
> in courses like Calculus or the prerequisites for Calc that not
> everybody's high school taught. I had a sub-continental math
> professor, who did his computations at the blackboard under
> in breath in Hindi or something else from his homeland, but
> when he spoke English it was understandable, if accented.
> It helped that my HS math teachers had covered all the same stuff!
>
> Some of my midwestern classmates had more of a problem. Back
> home on Long Island my family doctor was a Pakistani immigrant.
> Prof D didn't sound too strange to me after that!

Heh. This cuts both ways. Australians are naturally lazy speakers in that we routinely drop consonants, blur vowels and tail off at the ends of words. I'm told I'm worse than most and I speak softly as well.

When I was running the tutorials, an Australian at an Australian university, a good proportion of my students were International students, whose grasp of English ranged from flawless to barely comprehensible.

I learned to speak up, clearly and slowly. The alternative was being asked to constantly repeat what I said.

-Moriarty

[Robert Carnegie]

My place called the tutorials "supervisions", and they were
smaller. My "tutor" wasn't involved in that, and wasn't my
teacher but in a (non-religious) pastoral role.

[Greg Goss]

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Well, yes. It's an easy thing, when you have a captive audience who
>believe (and not without reason) that their future is at stake.

My ex went to a commercial college. The tech college where she WANTED
to go uses the classic model that's been described in this thread.
(new editions every two years.)

The commercial college was significantly more expensive, but I didn't
want to wait a whole year before boosting her employment chances. So
we went for it. Included in the posted "tuition", they included an
iPad and all the textbooks were provided in an ebook format.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.

[Mark Bestley]

Terminology is fun - yes that was actually the way I was taught.

Trying to use more general terms and failed. So as Moriarty said.

By tutor I meant TA, supervisor etc and you did not need to do them to
get a degree that just depended on central exams and proacticals.


However the important thing is that the course is defined by the
university and is independant of any book although some courses do
follow a certain book closely and would be difficult wihout that book
but the need to get a new book each year does not exist.

--
Mark

[Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha]

Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote in
news:fc5jis...@mid.individual.net:

And it was more expensive overall, yes?

[Gene Wirchenko]

On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 13:43:35 -0500, J. Clarke
<jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:

[snip]

>What happens wherever you are when the prof says "Turn in exercises 1,
>3, and 7" and the ones you turn in are from a different edition with
>different numbering?

IME, editions are specified. In one case I saw, stduents with
the previous edition could get photocopies of the problems.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

[Robert Carnegie]

I gather that e-textbooks can be produced with an expiry date.
At the end of the year, it can't be read any more.

This just mean that a college or a lecturer's decision to
soak students for money for required study texts, or to not
do that, is frictionless: a mere moral choice, with no
technological bias to fairness or unfairness.

[Default User]

On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 3:25:59 PM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie wrote:

> I gather that e-textbooks can be produced with an expiry date.
> At the end of the year, it can't be read any more.

Certainly DRM can do things like. Library e-books will have expiration of a few weeks. As long as the DRM is intact textbooks could be set that way. I don't know if they do.


Brian

[Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha]

Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:81680204-91d0-4d3a...@googlegroups.com:

Though it's fairly trivial to strip the DRM off, if you put a little
effort into it.

[Default User]

On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 4:15:43 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:81680204-91d0-4d3a...@googlegroups.com:
>
> > On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 3:25:59 PM UTC-6, Robert
> > Carnegie wrote:
> >
> >> I gather that e-textbooks can be produced with an expiry date.
> >> At the end of the year, it can't be read any more.
> >
> > Certainly DRM can do things like. Library e-books will have
> > expiration of a few weeks. As long as the DRM is intact
> > textbooks could be set that way. I don't know if they do.
> >
> Though it's fairly trivial to strip the DRM off, if you put a little
> effort into it.

You act as though there might be tools and tutorials that would walk you through the steps necessary to do it. I'm shocked!

On a totally unrelated note, I at one point wasn't able to load library books on my iPad from my PC and have them work. Then the problem went away.


Brian

[Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha]

Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote in

news:0b4cfefe-b0fa-48ef...@googlegroups.com:

> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 4:15:43 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula
> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> news:81680204-91d0-4d3a...@googlegroups.com:
>>
>> > On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 3:25:59 PM UTC-6, Robert
>> > Carnegie wrote:
>> >
>> >> I gather that e-textbooks can be produced with an expiry
>> >> date. At the end of the year, it can't be read any more.
>> >
>> > Certainly DRM can do things like. Library e-books will have
>> > expiration of a few weeks. As long as the DRM is intact
>> > textbooks could be set that way. I don't know if they do.
>> >
>> Though it's fairly trivial to strip the DRM off, if you put a
>> little effort into it.
>
> You act as though there might be tools and tutorials that would
> walk you through the steps necessary to do it. I'm shocked!

What *is* the world coming to! I use no such tool. (The most
popular one is fully automated. There are no steps.)

>
> On a totally unrelated note, I at one point wasn't able to load
> library books on my iPad from my PC and have them work. Then the
> problem went away.
>

And some people don't believe in miracles.

[Kevrob]

I did some temp work in a college bookstore a few years ago.
The manager explained to me that the e-book version could be
either sold at one price, or rented at another. The DRM
caused the rental versions to go *poof* at some point.

The great improvement over printed books was online access to
data, problem sets, research papers, etc. that was sold or
rented as an adjunct to the text. The store I worked at sold
new print, used print and ebook versions of most texts. The
students often opted for the ebook for the convenience. If the
purchase included a back-up one could access if you lost your
device it was downloaded to, or cloud storage, I would agree
that the ebook would have its advantages. Old-fashioned hardcover
or even softcover depending on external light sources do have their
proponents. I've read textbooks in some of the darnedest places,
where a device losing its charge might not be able to operate
without being plugged in.

Kevin R

[J. Clarke]

You can rent textbooks on Amazon Kindle for about 4 months and pay
about 1/3 the list price. I understand that some universities either
use that service or recommend it to their students.

[J. Clarke]

On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 15:56:55 -0800 (PST), Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com>

Generally speaking if you buy or rent a book on Kindle, you can view
it on any Kindle that is registered to you. Amazon tries to make it
transparent--if I read on my cell phone during lunch at work, Audible
will pick up where I left off when I listen in the car on the way
home, and then when I get home the Fire HD that sits by the bedside
opens to the page where Audible left off.

And the paperwhite devices seem to run forever on a charge--Amazon
says 6 weeks based on a half an hour a day of actual reading.

[J. Clarke]

On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 12:36:59 -0800, Gene Wirchenko <ge...@telus.net>
wrote:

>On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 13:43:35 -0500, J. Clarke
><jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>>What happens wherever you are when the prof says "Turn in exercises 1,
>>3, and 7" and the ones you turn in are from a different edition with
>>different numbering?
>
> IME, editions are specified.

That's the point--you have to have the current edition, or whichever
one is specified for the course, not the one that last years class
sold back to the coop.

>In one case I saw, stduents with
>the previous edition could get photocopies of the problems.

Only works until the publisher's lawyers find out.

[Greg Goss]

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote in
>news:fc5jis...@mid.individual.net:
>
>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Well, yes. It's an easy thing, when you have a captive audience
>>>who believe (and not without reason) that their future is at
>>>stake.
>>
>> My ex went to a commercial college. The tech college where she
>> WANTED to go uses the classic model that's been described in
>> this thread. (new editions every two years.)
>>
>> The commercial college was significantly more expensive, but I
>> didn't want to wait a whole year before boosting her employment
>> chances. So we went for it. Included in the posted "tuition",
>> they included an iPad and all the textbooks were provided in an
>> ebook format.
>
>And it was more expensive overall, yes?

Sure. But it had seats available. The gov't subsidized school across
town was cheaper (so long as you took transit. Parking was free at
the commercial college and ludicrous at SAIT.)

To get into SAIT, she would have had to wait a year. Getting out of
Reeve's a year earlier is worth $30K or so of income.

[Quadibloc]

On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 3:58:32 PM UTC-7, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:

> What *is* the world coming to!

I think of copyright as an agreement that the people of the
country chose, through their elected representatives, to make
with future authors.

So copyright infringement is wrong without copyright being
anyone's natural law right - there is no moral case for
extending copyright terms or otherwise expanding copyright law
in terms of any rights creators have, but such extensions can be
made if they're in the interests of the society.

But this means that copyright derives from the state power to
create monopolies - and, thus, should be anathema to Libertarian
types, who in fact tend to be very supportive of the concept of
intellectual property.

Ayn Rand is who I blame for creating the confusion.

John Savard

[Dimensional Traveler]

So, about 20 hours.

--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.

[Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha]

Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:7fb7bcf5-cece-4ee5...@googlegroups.com:

> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 3:58:32 PM UTC-7, Jibini Kula
> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>
>> What *is* the world coming to!
>
> I think

Not that I've ever seen.

> of copyright as an agreement that the people of the
> country chose, through their elected representatives, to make
> with future authors.

You're wrong. As usual.

[Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha]

Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote in

news:fc7vfe...@mid.individual.net:

But it *was* more expensive, so no money was saved on the price of
textbooks.

[Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha]

J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:58dt5dpk5i4qgirq0...@4ax.com:

Generally speaking. There is a mechanism in the system to limit how
many devices, down to one. I suspect textbook publishers make use
of it more often that most.

[Gene Wirchenko]

On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 21:39:04 -0500, J. Clarke

<jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 12:36:59 -0800, Gene Wirchenko <ge...@telus.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 13:43:35 -0500, J. Clarke
>><jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>>What happens wherever you are when the prof says "Turn in exercises 1,
>>>3, and 7" and the ones you turn in are from a different edition with
>>>different numbering?
>>
>> IME, editions are specified.
>
>That's the point--you have to have the current edition, or whichever
>one is specified for the course, not the one that last years class
>sold back to the coop.

In the case I referred to, the current and just previous versions
were practically the same, just changes in problems.

>>In one case I saw, stduents with
>>the previous edition could get photocopies of the problems.
>
>Only works until the publisher's lawyers find out.

Possibly. I do not know what the upshot was.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

[Wolffan]

On 16Jan 2018, J. Clarke wrote
(in article<2ndt5dp8c9j3vek1l...@4ax.com>):

> On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 12:36:59 -0800, Gene Wirchenko<ge...@telus.net>
> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 13:43:35 -0500, J. Clarke
> > <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > What happens wherever you are when the prof says "Turn in exercises 1,
> > > 3, and 7" and the ones you turn in are from a different edition with
> > > different numbering?
> >
> > IME, editions are specified.
>
> That's the point--you have to have the current edition, or whichever
> one is specified for the course, not the one that last years class
> sold back to the coop.

that depends on the course. For some, usually technical, courses, you must
have the latest edition because the latest edition covers the latest version
of the software or the latest version of the certification or something. For
other courses, there is very little if any significant differences between
editions. The local community college has used the same ‘intro to college
algebra’ book for at least 15 years. It’s now the 8th edition instead of
the 5th, but very little has changed, mostly typos being fixed. (And it’s
also covering material I did when I was 14 years old or younger. What on
Earth are they _teaching_ in high school these days? Mumble-mumble good old
days mumble-mumble get off my lawn)

>
>
> > In one case I saw, stduents with
> > the previous edition could get photocopies of the problems.
>
> Only works until the publisher's lawyers find out.

A lot of textbooks have ‘student data files’ and problems and exercises
files’ available on the publisher’s site, usually via a convoluted and
annoying registration process. I do some adjunct instruction; I am already
registered, as an instructor, on many publishers sites (and, yes, it is
annoying) so I usually download the various student files and park them on
the school sharepoint where students can get to them. I’ve been doing this
for years, no lawyers have come calling, and indeed I was pointed to the
student sites by the local reps for the major publishers (Wiley. Cengage,
Pearson, etc.) who really want me to make things easy for the students. If
things are too difficult for the students, there will be complaining, and the
school may (that is, _will_) switch to another publisher, and the local rep
will be out of a job. We can’t put the _books_ on the school site, that
would definitely attract lawyers, but we can and do put almost everything
else.

I have noticed that some students show up with deDRMed PDFs, AZWs, and EPUBs.
No doubt the various publishers’ lawyers get worked up about that. I’d
care more if the books did NOT have insane, outrageous, imbecilic,
counter-productive, prices.