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Another Cliche Bites the Dust
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peterw...@hotmail.com
Aug 26, 2015, 9:57:00 PM8/26/15
to
I came across a reference to the this paper in a recent issue of _New Scientist_ magazine:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022096515001113
In this study, a group of autistic children proved as good at reading body language as a control group of neurotypical children. Previous research showing that autistic people had difficulty reading emotion had been based on looking at faces, and since autistics often dislike making eye contact, this presented difficulties for them. It's not an exact analogy, but I'm reminded of the _Monty Python_ sketch where scientists were trying to compare the intelligence of humans and penguins. They asked penguins a series of questions and got no reply. It occurred to the researchers that this might be because the penguins didn't understand English, so they asked the same questions to a group on non English speaking humans. Getting a similar lack of response to the questions from this group, the researchers concluded that penguins and humans had similar intelligence.
Many beliefs about autistic people have been challenged lately. One reason is that autistic people such as Temple Grandin are now writing best-selling books describing how they think, often contradicting people who pontificate about them from afar.
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022096515001113
In this study, a group of autistic children proved as good at reading body language as a control group of neurotypical children. Previous research showing that autistic people had difficulty reading emotion had been based on looking at faces, and since autistics often dislike making eye contact, this presented difficulties for them. It's not an exact analogy, but I'm reminded of the _Monty Python_ sketch where scientists were trying to compare the intelligence of humans and penguins. They asked penguins a series of questions and got no reply. It occurred to the researchers that this might be because the penguins didn't understand English, so they asked the same questions to a group on non English speaking humans. Getting a similar lack of response to the questions from this group, the researchers concluded that penguins and humans had similar intelligence.
Many beliefs about autistic people have been challenged lately. One reason is that autistic people such as Temple Grandin are now writing best-selling books describing how they think, often contradicting people who pontificate about them from afar.
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
peterw...@hotmail.com
Aug 27, 2015, 10:01:09 PM8/27/15
to
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
Titus G
Aug 27, 2015, 10:27:32 PM8/27/15
to
On 28/08/2015 2:01 p.m., peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
snip
> Mark Haddon's 2003 mystery _The Curious Incident of the Dog in the
> Night-Time_ received much favorable attention for having a
> protagonist with autism spectrum condition.
And for being a well written fascinating story.
> Have any other mystery,
> science fiction, or fantasy authors done this? I seem to recall that
> some consider Sherlock Holmes to be a possible autistic.
I am not qualified to answer this but am sceptical because Holmes was a
great communicator with highly developed observational skills. Traits
lacking in autistics?
snip
> Mark Haddon's 2003 mystery _The Curious Incident of the Dog in the
> Night-Time_ received much favorable attention for having a
> protagonist with autism spectrum condition.
> Have any other mystery,
> science fiction, or fantasy authors done this? I seem to recall that
> some consider Sherlock Holmes to be a possible autistic.
great communicator with highly developed observational skills. Traits
lacking in autistics?
Don Bruder
Aug 27, 2015, 10:59:55 PM8/27/15
to
In article <c8546e5b-db60-454c...@googlegroups.com>,
The WWW trilogy from Robert L. Forward - "Wake", "Watch", and "Wonder" -
features an autistic physicist who spends a good bit of time
"front-n-center", despite not actually being the main character.
--
Security provided by Mssrs Smith and/or Wesson. Brought to you by the letter Q
features an autistic physicist who spends a good bit of time
"front-n-center", despite not actually being the main character.
--
Security provided by Mssrs Smith and/or Wesson. Brought to you by the letter Q
David Johnston
Aug 27, 2015, 11:21:16 PM8/27/15
to
On 8/27/2015 8:01 PM, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Mark Haddon's 2003 mystery _The Curious Incident of the Dog in the
> Night-Time_ received much favorable attention for having a
> protagonist with autism spectrum condition. Have any other mystery,
> science fiction, or fantasy authors done this? I seem to recall that
> some consider Sherlock Holmes to be a possible autistic.
>
He's not autistic. He's just kind of a jerk.
> Mark Haddon's 2003 mystery _The Curious Incident of the Dog in the
> Night-Time_ received much favorable attention for having a
> protagonist with autism spectrum condition. Have any other mystery,
> science fiction, or fantasy authors done this? I seem to recall that
> some consider Sherlock Holmes to be a possible autistic.
>
There is however the character Seth in "The Regulators".
Don Bruder
Aug 28, 2015, 12:30:29 AM8/28/15
to
In article <mrojvv$5ep$1...@dont-email.me>,
By the time we "meet" him, I wouldn't call Seth autistic - I'd be more
inclined to call him a meat-puppet.
(But yes, I grant that in his backstory, we learn he was indeed
autistic, or something very like it, prior to the encounter out west)
inclined to call him a meat-puppet.
(But yes, I grant that in his backstory, we learn he was indeed
autistic, or something very like it, prior to the encounter out west)
Lawrence Watt-Evans
Aug 28, 2015, 2:50:16 AM8/28/15
to
On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 19:01:06 -0700 (PDT), peterw...@hotmail.com
wrote:
_The Speed of Dark_, by Elizabeth Moon.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus
wrote:
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Robert Carnegie
Aug 28, 2015, 6:27:39 AM8/28/15
to
whether "idiot savant" or just "idiot". I don't want to blame
Dustin Hoffman but a lot of these subsequent portrayals,
including Haddon's apparently, are not based on knowledge or
understanding of autism conditions - "not any specific disorder",
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Curious_Incident_of_the_Dog_in_the_Night-Time>
If you want a character, especially a child, to be weird or
creepy or socially unperceptive or just not to behave like an
actual kid normally would in a horrific situation (scream and
run away, repeatedly, and demand food and a bathroom), here's
your licence. it's also an excuse for making a character
unbelievably smart.
Maybe I should blame Leonard Nimoy, or, specifically,
Gene Roddenberry. In the actual Star Trek TV series,
and some books, other characters usually discuss and
treat Spock the (Half) Vulcan's estrangement from
earth-human emotions as a disability. More thoughtful
treatments make it a conscious choice. An emotionally
expressive Vulcan is a lot harder to deal with.
According to Wikipedia, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle based
Sherlock Holmes on a teacher at medical school,
Dr Joseph Bell, but Bell saw Holmes as a version
of Doyle - at least I think that's the point, unless
he was trying to say that Doyle was more Holmes than
he was Watson (private general practising doctor with
a lot of free time in his patient appointment book).
So, those are actual people to look at.
Of course another way to have an oddball character
is to make them an alien, or an artificial intelligence,
or, as a relatively modern device, a supernatural being.
Well - "Lord, what fools these mortals be!" Not recent...
William December Starr
Aug 28, 2015, 10:39:13 AM8/28/15
to
In article <mroo1n$fag$1...@dont-email.me>,
Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> said:
> David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>
>> There is however the character Seth in "The Regulators".
>
> By the time we "meet" him, I wouldn't call Seth autistic - I'd be
> more inclined to call him a meat-puppet.
>
> (But yes, I grant that in his backstory, we learn he was indeed
> autistic, or something very like it, prior to the encounter out
> west)
Is this the Stephen King novel or something else with that title?
-- wds
Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> said:
> David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>
>> There is however the character Seth in "The Regulators".
>
> By the time we "meet" him, I wouldn't call Seth autistic - I'd be
> more inclined to call him a meat-puppet.
>
> (But yes, I grant that in his backstory, we learn he was indeed
> autistic, or something very like it, prior to the encounter out
> west)
-- wds
art...@yahoo.com
Aug 28, 2015, 12:15:33 PM8/28/15
to
On Thursday, August 27, 2015 at 10:01:09 PM UTC-4, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
Have any other mystery, science fiction, or fantasy authors done this? I seem to recall that some consider Sherlock Holmes to be a possible autistic.
>
Patricia Anthony had a short story in Eating Memories featuring an autistic child, but I can't recall the title.
Have any other mystery, science fiction, or fantasy authors done this? I seem to recall that some consider Sherlock Holmes to be a possible autistic.
>
Don Bruder
Aug 28, 2015, 12:21:47 PM8/28/15
to
In article <mrprqf$rjs$1...@panix2.panix.com>,
The only "Seth" I know of from a novel titled "The Regulators" is by
King (or was that one published under the Bachman 'nym? Either way, same
body behind the keyboard.)
I can never keep The Regulators/Desperation straight as to which author
name was used on which one.
King (or was that one published under the Bachman 'nym? Either way, same
body behind the keyboard.)
I can never keep The Regulators/Desperation straight as to which author
name was used on which one.
William December Starr
Aug 28, 2015, 9:01:23 PM8/28/15
to
In article <mrq1ne$lpr$1...@dont-email.me>,
published as by King, while THE REGULATORS seems with two oddball
exceptions[1] to be "by Richard Bachman" in all editions.
-----------
*1: The e-book version and the Spanish translation titled POSESION.
-- wds
Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> said:
> wds...@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote:
>
>> Is this the Stephen King novel or something else with that title?
>
> wds...@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote:
>
>> Is this the Stephen King novel or something else with that title?
>
> The only "Seth" I know of from a novel titled "The Regulators" is
> by King (or was that one published under the Bachman 'nym? Either
> way, same body behind the keyboard.)
>
> I can never keep The Regulators/Desperation straight as to which
> author name was used on which one.
Based on a perusal of the ISFDB, DESPERATION has only ever been
> by King (or was that one published under the Bachman 'nym? Either
> way, same body behind the keyboard.)
>
> I can never keep The Regulators/Desperation straight as to which
> author name was used on which one.
published as by King, while THE REGULATORS seems with two oddball
exceptions[1] to be "by Richard Bachman" in all editions.
-----------
*1: The e-book version and the Spanish translation titled POSESION.
-- wds
Ahasuerus
Aug 28, 2015, 10:06:02 PM8/28/15
to
On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 9:01:23 PM UTC-4, William December Starr
wrote:
[snip-snip]
editions. (We changed the way we handle "X writing as Y" titles a few
years ago, but some older records haven't been adjusted yet.)
wrote:
[snip-snip]
> Based on a perusal of the ISFDB, DESPERATION has only ever been
> published as by King, while THE REGULATORS seems with two oddball
> exceptions[1] to be "by Richard Bachman" in all editions.
>
> -----------
> *1: The e-book version and the Spanish translation titled POSESION.
There have been a few "Stephen King writing as Richard Bachman"
> published as by King, while THE REGULATORS seems with two oddball
> exceptions[1] to be "by Richard Bachman" in all editions.
>
> -----------
> *1: The e-book version and the Spanish translation titled POSESION.
editions. (We changed the way we handle "X writing as Y" titles a few
years ago, but some older records haven't been adjusted yet.)
Don Bruder
Aug 28, 2015, 11:17:19 PM8/28/15
to
In article <mrr091$7f9$1...@panix2.panix.com>,
I'm putting the right author name on the right volume is if I'm sitting
there looking at both of them. (You ARE aware that King and Bachman are
two names for the same person, right?)
wds...@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote:
> In article <mrq1ne$lpr$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> said:
>
> > wds...@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote:
> >
> >> Is this the Stephen King novel or something else with that title?
> >
> > The only "Seth" I know of from a novel titled "The Regulators" is
> > by King (or was that one published under the Bachman 'nym? Either
> > way, same body behind the keyboard.)
> >
> > I can never keep The Regulators/Desperation straight as to which
> > author name was used on which one.
>
> Based on a perusal of the ISFDB, DESPERATION has only ever been
> published as by King, while THE REGULATORS seems with two oddball
> exceptions[1] to be "by Richard Bachman" in all editions.
Like I said, I can never keep 'em straight. The only way I can be sure
> In article <mrq1ne$lpr$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> said:
>
> > wds...@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote:
> >
> >> Is this the Stephen King novel or something else with that title?
> >
> > The only "Seth" I know of from a novel titled "The Regulators" is
> > by King (or was that one published under the Bachman 'nym? Either
> > way, same body behind the keyboard.)
> >
> > I can never keep The Regulators/Desperation straight as to which
> > author name was used on which one.
>
> Based on a perusal of the ISFDB, DESPERATION has only ever been
> published as by King, while THE REGULATORS seems with two oddball
> exceptions[1] to be "by Richard Bachman" in all editions.
I'm putting the right author name on the right volume is if I'm sitting
there looking at both of them. (You ARE aware that King and Bachman are
two names for the same person, right?)
Jerry Brown
Aug 29, 2015, 2:43:00 AM8/29/15
to
On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 20:17:16 -0700, Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net>
wrote:
Before he stopped writing as Bachman, just for fun King should have
written at least one collaboration with himself like John Wyndham did
with "Lucas Parkes" on The Outward Urge. Have any other authors done
this?
--
Jerry Brown
A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
wrote:
written at least one collaboration with himself like John Wyndham did
with "Lucas Parkes" on The Outward Urge. Have any other authors done
this?
--
Jerry Brown
A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
Ahasuerus
Aug 29, 2015, 2:37:44 PM8/29/15
to
On Saturday, August 29, 2015 at 2:43:00 AM UTC-4, Jerry Brown wrote:
[snip-snip]
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1673235 and
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1673239
[snip-snip]
> Before he stopped writing as Bachman, just for fun King should have
> written at least one collaboration with himself like John Wyndham did
> with "Lucas Parkes" on The Outward Urge. Have any other authors done
> this?
H. Paul Honsinger aka "Harvey G. Phillips" -- see
> written at least one collaboration with himself like John Wyndham did
> with "Lucas Parkes" on The Outward Urge. Have any other authors done
> this?
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1673235 and
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1673239
David Johnston
Aug 29, 2015, 2:56:43 PM8/29/15
to
William December Starr
Aug 30, 2015, 1:14:32 AM8/30/15
to
In article <mrr84i$lv1$3...@dont-email.me>,
-- wds
P.S.: IOU one sarcasm detector.
Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> said:
> Like I said, I can never keep 'em straight. The only way I can be sure
> I'm putting the right author name on the right volume is if I'm sitting
> there looking at both of them. (You ARE aware that King and Bachman are
> two names for the same person, right?)
No. That's completely new news to me.
> Like I said, I can never keep 'em straight. The only way I can be sure
> I'm putting the right author name on the right volume is if I'm sitting
> there looking at both of them. (You ARE aware that King and Bachman are
> two names for the same person, right?)
-- wds
P.S.: IOU one sarcasm detector.
William December Starr
Aug 30, 2015, 1:23:28 AM8/30/15
to
In article <nqk2ua50aods47862...@jwbrown.co.uk>,
As best as I can tell from the ISFDB listing (see below), del Rey
wrote a novel of that title in 1953 and had it published under the
pseudonym Erik Van Lhin; when he wrote a revised edition in 1975 --
in effect collaborating with his 22-years-younger self -- he added
his own name.
Police Your Planet NOVEL Variant 1956-00-00 Erik Van Lhin
Police Your Planet (1975 revision) NOVEL Variant 1975-05-00 Lester del Rey Erik Van Lhin
Police Your Planet (1975 revision) NOVEL Variant 1981-11-00 Lester del Rey
Police Your Planet (Part 1 of 4) SERIAL Variant 1953-03-00 Erik Van Lhin
Police Your Planet (Part 2 of 4) SERIAL Variant 1953-05-00 Erik Van Lhin
Police Your Planet (Part 3 of 4) SERIAL Variant 1953-07-00 Erik Van Lhin
Police Your Planet (Part 4 of 4) SERIAL Variant 1953-09-00 Erik Van Lhin
-- wds
Jerry Brown <je...@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> said:
> Before he stopped writing as Bachman, just for fun King should
> have written at least one collaboration with himself like John
> Wyndham did with "Lucas Parkes" on The Outward Urge. Have any
> other authors done this?
There's POLICE YOUR PLANET by Lester del Rey and Erik Van Lhin.
> Before he stopped writing as Bachman, just for fun King should
> have written at least one collaboration with himself like John
> Wyndham did with "Lucas Parkes" on The Outward Urge. Have any
> other authors done this?
As best as I can tell from the ISFDB listing (see below), del Rey
wrote a novel of that title in 1953 and had it published under the
pseudonym Erik Van Lhin; when he wrote a revised edition in 1975 --
in effect collaborating with his 22-years-younger self -- he added
his own name.
Police Your Planet NOVEL Variant 1956-00-00 Erik Van Lhin
Police Your Planet (1975 revision) NOVEL Variant 1975-05-00 Lester del Rey Erik Van Lhin
Police Your Planet (1975 revision) NOVEL Variant 1981-11-00 Lester del Rey
Police Your Planet (Part 1 of 4) SERIAL Variant 1953-03-00 Erik Van Lhin
Police Your Planet (Part 2 of 4) SERIAL Variant 1953-05-00 Erik Van Lhin
Police Your Planet (Part 3 of 4) SERIAL Variant 1953-07-00 Erik Van Lhin
Police Your Planet (Part 4 of 4) SERIAL Variant 1953-09-00 Erik Van Lhin
-- wds
John F. Eldredge
Sep 2, 2015, 6:58:29 PM9/2/15
to
is a high-functioning type of autism. Many computer programmers,
including me, fall somewhere on the Asperger's Syndrome spectrum.
David Johnston
Sep 2, 2015, 8:18:30 PM9/2/15
to
On 9/2/2015 4:58 PM, John F. Eldredge wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 21:21:14 -0600, David Johnston wrote:
>
>> On 8/27/2015 8:01 PM, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Mark Haddon's 2003 mystery _The Curious Incident of the Dog in the
>>> Night-Time_ received much favorable attention for having a protagonist
>>> with autism spectrum condition. Have any other mystery, science
>>> fiction, or fantasy authors done this? I seem to recall that some
>>> consider Sherlock Holmes to be a possible autistic.
>>>
>>>
>> He's not autistic. He's just kind of a jerk.
>>
>> There is however the character Seth in "The Regulators".
>
> Sherlock Holmes does sound like he could have Asperger's Syndrome, which
> is a high-functioning type of autism.
Yes I know. And he doesn't have it. He has no social impairment beyond
> On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 21:21:14 -0600, David Johnston wrote:
>
>> On 8/27/2015 8:01 PM, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Mark Haddon's 2003 mystery _The Curious Incident of the Dog in the
>>> Night-Time_ received much favorable attention for having a protagonist
>>> with autism spectrum condition. Have any other mystery, science
>>> fiction, or fantasy authors done this? I seem to recall that some
>>> consider Sherlock Holmes to be a possible autistic.
>>>
>>>
>> He's not autistic. He's just kind of a jerk.
>>
>> There is however the character Seth in "The Regulators".
>
> Sherlock Holmes does sound like he could have Asperger's Syndrome, which
> is a high-functioning type of autism.
his constant need to show other people that they aren't as smart as he
is and his low tolerance for boredom, his physical coordination is
exceptional, his range of interests is broad, and he doesn't manifest
repetitive behaviours
pete...@gmail.com
Sep 3, 2015, 9:34:27 AM9/3/15
to
which fits with his behaviour in that show. Note that 'sociopath' !=
'bad person'.
pt
David Johnston
Sep 3, 2015, 1:06:11 PM9/3/15
to
for the original Sherlock, I'd go with "self-medicating bipolar".
art...@yahoo.com
Sep 3, 2015, 8:24:38 PM9/3/15
to
On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 1:06:11 PM UTC-4, David Johnston wrote:
>
> It's always fun to armchair diagnose fictional characters.
One could have a field day with the every character in "Rogue Moon".
>
> It's always fun to armchair diagnose fictional characters.
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