"Spice Girls"

[Lynn McGuire]

"Spice Girls"
http://www.xkcd.com/1554/

"The Earth's five major mass extinctions were the Posh Extinction, the Sporty Extinction, the Scary Extinction, the Ginger
Extinction, and the Baby Extinction."

Cute.

Lynn

[Kevrob]

Should we dare Randall to try it with the 5 Pillars of Islam?

I'd prefer Doc Savage and his Fashionably Autotuned 5!

Kevin R

[Quadibloc]

Although I never paid much attention to the Spice Girls while they were active as
a group, later on through YouTube I discovered that "Baby Spice", Emma Bunton,
has had a successful subsequent solo career - and, indeed, that she can actually
sing rather well.

And she even seems to have good taste in music, having reprised such classic hits
as "Downtown", "Where Did Our Love Go", and "Crickets Sing for Annamaria".

John Savard

[David DeLaney]

On 2015-07-22, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> And she even seems to have good taste in music, having reprised such classic
> hits as "Downtown", "Where Did Our Love Go", and "Crickets Sing for
> Annamaria".

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArsonMurderAndJaywalking

Dave, DO NOT CLICK! IS TRICK!
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://gatekeeper.vic.com/~dbd/ -net.legends/Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[Cryptoengineer]

Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:f577bc67-8a62-45c1...@googlegroups.com:

Just watched her 'Downtown' video. Yes, she has a good voice, and
looks totally edible, but I don't think she interprets the song
in the best way.

The Petula Clark version remains more evocative to me - there's
an undertone of loneliness, which fits perfectly with the lyric.
I look at Baby Spice, and listen to her sing, and she just can't
sell me 'When you're alone and life is making you lonely..'. She
looks just too damn happy and satisfied with her life.

pt

[Don Bruder]

In article <XnsA4DFE54EDD...@216.166.97.131>,

Second that - Petula's version is the definitive one. Anything else is a
poor (at best) imitation, and the perpetrator should immediately be
slapped as hard and often as needed to convince them to apologize for
their attempt at perverting perfection.

(Same goes for any version of "Landslide" not performed by Stevie Nicks
- yes, Dixie Chicks, I'm looking at you)

--
Security provided by Mssrs Smith and/or Wesson. Brought to you by the letter Q

[Cryptoengineer]

Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> wrote in news:mopnke$pur$4...@dont-email.me:

Generally agreed. However, there are some cases where covers improve
on the original. Consider Raya Yarbrough's cover of 'Time After Time',
which was used in an episode of (ObSF) 'Defiance'. I find it far
superior to the Cyndi Lauper version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RIMehZzGLo

pt

[hamis...@gmail.com]

As I understand it Hendrix's All Along The Watchtower is considered the definitive version by Bob Dylan...

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <XnsA4E01E488...@216.166.97.131>,

Tuck & Patti:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4ahjXagmWI
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[Don Bruder]

In article <c48021a3-6bcb-47de...@googlegroups.com>,

No argument - But in the two specific cases I've mentioned, it'd take a
miracle to avoid butchering them, never mind actually improving them.
The putrid mutilation perpetrated by the Dixie Skanks on Landslide
absolutely sickens me every time I have it inflicted on me. As for
Downtown, you can believe it or not, but my mother claims that Petula's
version was playing on the radio as I was delivered, and after my
initial screech, I did a reasonable job of humming along with the tune.
I can't say for certain whether that's a true story or not - I was
pretty young then, doncha know :) - but I do know that as far back as I
have memory, it's been one of my favorite songs.

> > Consider Raya Yarbrough's cover of 'Time After Time',
> > which was used in an episode of (ObSF) 'Defiance'. I find it far
> > superior to the Cyndi Lauper version:

Never heard of it, but I'll have to give it a whirl. I've always liked
Cyndi's version. Didn't Cher cover it, too? Or am I thinking of someone
else? The "not Cyndi" version I'm thinking of was at least not butchery,
but wasn't as good as Cyndi's.

> >
> As I understand it Hendrix's All Along The Watchtower is considered the
> definitive version by Bob Dylan...

Despite the fact that I have very little use for Hendrix in general
(Sorry, but the vast majority of his catalog is massively over-rated,
highly obnoxious noise to me) I have to agree. Particularly since I've
actually heard Dylan (Well, OK, a recording of him) say so. Although I
think I recall the actual wording being more along the lines of "I
didn't realize it at the time, but I was writing it for him")

Never mind that I think Bob's own version is ... Well, calling it utter
garbage would be a grievous insult to perfectly innocent landfill
stuffing.

[Brian M. Scott]

On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 23:00:34 -0500, Cryptoengineer
<treif...@gmail.com> wrote
in<news:XnsA4E01E488...@216.166.97.131> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

There’s at least one case in which a translation improves
on the original: ‘Sag mir, we die Blumen sind’ is better
than ‘Where Have All the Flowers Gone’. (Pete Seeger
apparently agreed.) The German version was first sung by
Marlene Dietrich, but Joan Baez’s version is *much* better
-- for me the definitive version in any language.

Brian
--
It was the neap tide, when the baga venture out of their
holes to root for sandtatties. The waves whispered
rhythmically over the packed sand: haggisss, haggisss,
haggisss.

[Greg Goss]

Cryptoengineer <treif...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> wrote in news:mopnke$pur$4...@dont-email.me:

>Generally agreed. However, there are some cases where covers improve
>on the original.

Whichever version is on the radio when you're thirteen is the best
version.

Frigid Pink does a better cover of "House of the Rising Sun" than the
Animals cover. "Grapevine" is a CCR classic, not that sixties guy.

And sometimes it's shocking to discover something is much older than
people think. "Whisky in the jar-oh" was a favourite of the American
Revolutionaries (because it involved robbing a British officer) long
before Metallica. Though I expect that the Washington crew used a bit
less electric guitar.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.

[Greg Goss]

hamis...@gmail.com wrote:

>As I understand it Hendrix's All Along The Watchtower is considered the definitive version by Bob Dylan...

The author of "Hurt" describes the Johnny Cash song as something like
"It's like when your son grows up and gets married. It's not yours
any longer."

[Greg Goss]

Cryptoengineer <treif...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Generally agreed. However, there are some cases where covers improve
>on the original.

"Me and Bobbi McGee" was a big hit in Canada years before Janis ruined
it. To me the Lightfoot version is the real one, but the great masses
disagree with me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8O0GgcenVU

[Don Bruder]

In article <moptn1$7qp$2...@dont-email.me>, Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net>
wrote:

Just played the Raya version. We're gonna have to agree to disagree. I
can't say exactly why, but I don't like it AT ALL.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <d1bd3t...@mid.individual.net>,

My favorite version is the live Roger Whittaker one. He's nearly forgotten
now, but had some really nice songs.

Grapevine, btw, was first released by Gladys Knight & The Pips and was
a middling hit iirc. The Marvin Gaye version is actually a cover..

[Don Bruder]

In article <d1bd3t...@mid.individual.net>,
Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:

> Cryptoengineer <treif...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> wrote in news:mopnke$pur$4...@dont-email.me:
>
> >Generally agreed. However, there are some cases where covers improve
> >on the original.
>
> Whichever version is on the radio when you're thirteen is the best
> version.

I think you may have something there...

Fortunately, they've got shots that'll clear up most anything these
days... :)

But seriously, yes - There's a reason they're called "the formative
years".

(The depressing part is that I find myself saying *EXACTLY* the same
thing about today's so-called "music" that my mother used to say about
MY music!)

>
> Frigid Pink does a better cover of "House of the Rising Sun" than the
> Animals cover.

Gotta disagree. They're roughly equal in my book.

> "Grapevine" is a CCR classic, not that sixties guy.

That one's a tossup. Depends on my mood at the moment.

>
> And sometimes it's shocking to discover something is much older than
> people think. "Whisky in the jar-oh" was a favourite of the American
> Revolutionaries (because it involved robbing a British officer) long
> before Metallica. Though I expect that the Washington crew used a bit
> less electric guitar.

Since they hit the scene, I've absolutely detested almost everything
Metallica has ever done - The three exceptions I can name are "One"
(Love it as a perfect example of why assisted suicide should be legal,
really like the guitar work in the... what's the word I want? "quieter"
parts, absolutely hate the "chug-chug-chug-chug"(1) crap that they seem
to feel is vital to anything they record), "Enter Sandman" (I don't
really *LIKE* the tune, but unlike most of their stuff, I can at least
tolerate it - probably because there's not as much of their trademark
"chug-chug-chug-chug" garbage in it), and "Whisky in the Jar-oh"
(Instantly loved it - perhaps (at least partly) because besides being a
catchy little ditty, it has *NONE* of their usual "chug-chug-chug-chug"
garbage). Their version of "Whisky" was the first time I ever heard of,
never mind actually heard, the tune, and I loved it instantly. Then I
found out that that practically everybody and his dog has covered it
sometime in their career. Read somewhere that the Thin Lizzy version was
considered "definitive", so checked it out, but I can't agree -
Metallica's version is far superior, despite the fact that in general, I
plain can't stomach them.

(1) I can't think of any better way to describe it -
"chug-chug-chug-chug" - like a diesel train sitting on a siding idling -
a nasty, throbbing, monotonous noise that gives me the urge to strangle
something.

[hamis...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 2:00:37 PM UTC+10, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>

> Generally agreed. However, there are some cases where covers improve
> on the original. Consider Raya Yarbrough's cover of 'Time After Time',
> which was used in an episode of (ObSF) 'Defiance'. I find it far
> superior to the Cyndi Lauper version:
>

as far recorded Time after Time covers go (there's a local singer who does a really good one live, Bridget Pross, I think she has some of her own stuff available on iTunes) Miles Davis does a really good instrumental version

[Greg Goss]

t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote:

>Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:

>>And sometimes it's shocking to discover something is much older than
>>people think. "Whisky in the jar-oh" was a favourite of the American
>>Revolutionaries (because it involved robbing a British officer) long
>>before Metallica. Though I expect that the Washington crew used a bit
>>less electric guitar.
>
>My favorite version is the live Roger Whittaker one. He's nearly forgotten
>now, but had some really nice songs.

I googled for the Whittaker one. I've never heard that version.

I may have heard the "really Irish" ones -- my Dad used to listen to a
show called The Pig 'n' Whistle featuring bar-style songs such as
Irish Rovers, and several of the Irishish versions sounded familiar.
But the Whittaker one isn't familiar at all, and I don't really like
it. Playing with the pacing of a song is something that some hear as
creative, but just plain bugs me.

In exploring the versions, I realize that I don't know the difference
between "fiddle" and "violin". In the long opening to the Kildares
version, is that electric fiddle playing straight, or is the audio
played with in the electronics?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD2Niae26Ow

[Greg Goss]

Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> wrote:


>> And sometimes it's shocking to discover something is much older than
>> people think. "Whisky in the jar-oh" was a favourite of the American
>> Revolutionaries (because it involved robbing a British officer) long
>> before Metallica. Though I expect that the Washington crew used a bit
>> less electric guitar.
>

>"chug-chug-chug-chug" garbage in it), and "Whisky in the Jar-oh"
>(Instantly loved it - perhaps (at least partly) because besides being a
>catchy little ditty, it has *NONE* of their usual "chug-chug-chug-chug"
>garbage). Their version of "Whisky" was the first time I ever heard of,
>never mind actually heard, the tune, and I loved it instantly. Then I
>found out that that practically everybody and his dog has covered it
>sometime in their career. Read somewhere that the Thin Lizzy version was
>considered "definitive", so checked it out, but I can't agree -
>Metallica's version is far superior, despite the fact that in general, I
>plain can't stomach them.

The Friday DJ at the pub where I spend much of my time plays the
Metallica one a lot. And I just went through the Youtube list of
versions here. I like both the Metallica version (which Thin Lizzie
is a pale "imitation" of, even if it came long before) and several of
the Celtic style versions. But even though the melody and lyrics are
the same, I react to the electric-guitar version (Thin Lizzie,
Metallica, Moore) as a completely different song than the Irish-style
ones.

And Youtube's search engine sucks. A search for a song title starts
giving me garbage when the site contains more real matches. The
search didn't show the Grateful Dead version, but it was off to the
side of the "Seven Nations" (who?) bagpipe-led version.

[Brian M. Scott]

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 01:20:43 -0600, Greg Goss
<go...@gossg.org> wrote
in<news:d1biud...@mid.individual.net> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

[...]

> In exploring the versions, I realize that I don't know

> the difference between "fiddle" and "violin". [...]

There is none. Even classical violinists may refer to
their instruments as fiddles. However, it is true that the
term ‘fiddle’ is more likely to be used when the instrument
is being used to play some kind of folk music.

[Brian M. Scott]

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 01:29:03 -0600, Greg Goss
<go...@gossg.org> wrote
in<news:d1bje0...@mid.individual.net> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

> Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> wrote:

[...]

>> Their version of "Whisky" was the first time I ever
>> heard of, never mind actually heard, the tune, and I
>> loved it instantly. Then I found out that that
>> practically everybody and his dog has covered it
>> sometime in their career. Read somewhere that the Thin
>> Lizzy version was considered "definitive", so checked
>> it out, but I can't agree - Metallica's version is far
>> superior, despite the fact that in general, I plain
>> can't stomach them.

> The Friday DJ at the pub where I spend much of my time
> plays the Metallica one a lot. And I just went through
> the Youtube list of versions here. I like both the
> Metallica version (which Thin Lizzie is a pale
> "imitation" of, even if it came long before) and several
> of the Celtic style versions.

Out of curiosity I just listened to them. The Thin Lizzie
version, unlike the Metallica version, bears some faint
resemblance to music, but I’d not choose to listen to
either.

[...]

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 03:43:10 -0400, "Brian M. Scott"
<b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:

>On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 01:20:43 -0600, Greg Goss
><go...@gossg.org> wrote
>in<news:d1biud...@mid.individual.net> in
>rec.arts.sf.written:
>
>[...]
>
>> In exploring the versions, I realize that I don't know
>> the difference between "fiddle" and "violin". [...]
>
>There is none. Even classical violinists may refer to
>their instruments as fiddles. However, it is true that the
>term ‘fiddle’ is more likely to be used when the instrument
>is being used to play some kind of folk music.

Some people make a distinction saying that it depends how you hold the
bow; the classical three-finger overhand grip means it's a violin, the
more fistlike forward grip means it's a fiddle. It does affect the
sound.

The instrument itself is identical, of course.

(I had two years of violin lessons as a kid. I wish I'd learned the
fiddle, instead.)





--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Greg Goss]

Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 03:43:10 -0400, "Brian M. Scott"

>>On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 01:20:43 -0600, Greg Goss

>>> In exploring the versions, I realize that I don't know
>>> the difference between "fiddle" and "violin". [...]
>>
>>There is none. Even classical violinists may refer to
>>their instruments as fiddles. However, it is true that the
>>term ‘fiddle’ is more likely to be used when the instrument
>>is being used to play some kind of folk music.
>
>Some people make a distinction saying that it depends how you hold the
>bow; the classical three-finger overhand grip means it's a violin, the
>more fistlike forward grip means it's a fiddle. It does affect the
>sound.
>
>The instrument itself is identical, of course.

To my untrained mind, the difference seems to be pacing. The violin
plays slow music while the fiddle is played quickly. The performance
that inspired the question (snipped out of the thread) was
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD2Niae26Ow
starts with long slow sweeps (violin, to my impression) then switches
to the irish folk fiddle as the song gets going.

I know almost nothing about playing musical instruments, but it looks
like she's still using the three finger overhand grip you describe
during what's clearly fiddle-playing.

>(I had two years of violin lessons as a kid. I wish I'd learned the
>fiddle, instead.)

--

[David DeLaney]

On 2015-07-23, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
> Cryptoengineer <treif...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Generally agreed. However, there are some cases where covers improve
>>on the original.
>
> "Me and Bobbi McGee" was a big hit in Canada years before Janis ruined
> it. To me the Lightfoot version is the real one, but the great masses
> disagree with me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8O0GgcenVU

And of course there's Bruce Springsteen versus Manfred Mann's Earth Band...

Dave, deuce wah diddy diddy

[Brian M. Scott]

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 04:19:25 -0400, Lawrence Watt-Evans
<l...@sff.net> wrote
in<news:li81rah2rikc32v4u...@reader80.eternal-september.org>
in rec.arts.sf.written:

> On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 03:43:10 -0400, "Brian M. Scott"
> <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:

>>On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 01:20:43 -0600, Greg Goss
>><go...@gossg.org> wrote
>>in<news:d1biud...@mid.individual.net> in
>>rec.arts.sf.written:

>>[...]

>>> In exploring the versions, I realize that I don't know
>>> the difference between "fiddle" and "violin". [...]

>> There is none. Even classical violinists may refer to
>> their instruments as fiddles. However, it is true that
>> the term ‘fiddle’ is more likely to be used when the
>> instrument is being used to play some kind of folk
>> music.

> Some people make a distinction saying that it depends how
> you hold the bow; the classical three-finger overhand
> grip means it's a violin, the more fistlike forward grip
> means it's a fiddle. It does affect the sound.

I don’t listen much to that kind of music, but it also
seems to be true that when it’s called a fiddle, it’s more
likely to be held low, sometimes even below the collarbone,
as was done for much of the Baroque period (since the chin
rest hadn’t yet been invented), and the grips tend to be
more like Baroque grips. Oh, and the bow arm elbow is
lower. A good example of of the Baroque style is Enrico
Onfri, who can be seen here:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcO5pSMFV6A>

There’s a good little closeup segment starting at about
0:50.

Of course the Baroque violin and bow are a bit different
from their modern counterparts.

[...]

[leif...@dimnakorr.com]

Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>
> In exploring the versions, I realize that I don't know the difference
> between "fiddle" and "violin".

If the audience is sitting still, it's a violin. If they're not, it's
a fiddle.

--
Leif Roar Moldskred

[Quadibloc]

On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 9:40:27 PM UTC-6, Don Bruder wrote:

> Second that - Petula's version is the definitive one.

I agree with that. Sometimes, though, contemporary audiences dismiss the past, and will only listen to current performers, so one needs to reach them.

John Savard

[Quadibloc]

On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 7:53:53 PM UTC-6, David DeLaney wrote:
> On 2015-07-22, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

> > And she even seems to have good taste in music, having reprised such classic
> > hits as "Downtown", "Where Did Our Love Go", and "Crickets Sing for
> > Annamaria".

> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArsonMurderAndJaywalking

Yes, "Crickets Sing for Annamaria" is less well-known than the other two, but
it was performed earlier by Astrud Gilberto, so I thought it was also a
legitimate example of quality older music she chose to cover.

I presume she chose it because it fitted in well with her style and image.

John Savard

[Quadibloc]

On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 5:48:02 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:

> Yes, "Crickets Sing for Annamaria" is less well-known than the other two, but
> it was performed earlier by Astrud Gilberto,

And the original Portuguese-language version, "Os Grillos", may have been more
popular in Brazil.

John Savard

[Kevrob]

Cajun fiddler Doug Kershaw made a career out of playing his fiddle
held low. This allowed him to sing and play simultaneously.

Here's Doug on the Johnny cash show in 1969

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0i9zLJnU3w

and the 1977 PBS special, Fiddlers Three

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maELRCfx3Vw

The other two were Itzhak Perlman and Jean-Luc Ponty

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3bF0vsGQOw

I would have thought of The Dubliners' version of "Whiskey in
The Jar" as definitive, if any true folk song can be said to
have a definitive version. Thin Lizzy's is a seminal track
for the sub-genre og "Celtic Rock," for good or ill. Released
in 1972, the same year as the first Horslips album.

If I ever heard Metallica's version, I don't remember it
I like a lot of rock, but generally ignore metal.

Roger Miller was the first to record "Bobby McGee," written by
Kris Kristofferson and Fred Foster. KK's songs, with some exceptions,
gain much when performed by other singers.

Miller made it to #12 on the US country charts with "Bobby."

Kevin R

[leif...@dimnakorr.com]

Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> I would have thought of The Dubliners' version of "Whiskey in
> The Jar" as definitive, if any true folk song can be said to
> have a definitive version.

I think one could argue that the version by The Dubliners and
The Pogues together adds a certain ... immersion in the lyrics
that the pure The Dubliners version lacks.

Really, if there is any song whose lyrics are supposed to be
sung slurred, it's this one.

--
Leif Roar Moldskred

[pete...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 1:41:21 AM UTC-4, Greg Goss wrote:
> Cryptoengineer <treif...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> wrote in news:mopnke$pur$4...@dont-email.me:
>
> >Generally agreed. However, there are some cases where covers improve
> >on the original.
>
> Whichever version is on the radio when you're thirteen is the best
> version.

Agreed - its like the 'Golden Age of Science Fiction'.

> Frigid Pink does a better cover of "House of the Rising Sun" than the
> Animals cover. "Grapevine" is a CCR classic, not that sixties guy.
>
> And sometimes it's shocking to discover something is much older than
> people think. "Whisky in the jar-oh" was a favourite of the American
> Revolutionaries (because it involved robbing a British officer) long
> before Metallica. Though I expect that the Washington crew used a bit
> less electric guitar.

Not quite as old, but I found it amusing...

I was on another forum with a crowd that trended much younger than rasfw.
Someone was rhapsodizing about a great song Lynda Carter had brought
out, called 'The Loco-motion'.

Someone stepped in and educated the poster, explaining that Lynda
was just covering a Kylie Minogue hit from way back in 1987.

So I linked a Youtube kinoscope of Little Eva, and people boggled.

pt

[Don Bruder]

In article <21ae11bd-32a4-4ccc...@googlegroups.com>,

<snicker>
That sounds like the time my little sister came home from a hitting a
matinee of Wayne's World with several of her (then) tweeny-bopper
buddies, all of them raving about the "great new song they sang in the
car". I quietly went to my room, pulled out A Night At The Opera, (on
vinyl, natch...) and spun up Bohemian Rhapsody at high volume. About 15
seconds after it started blasting, she comes running into the room
"That's it! That's the new song they were singing! How'd you get the
soundtrack so quick?"

The look on her face when I told her that I'd been jamming to that song
before she was born was priceless :) "New song" indeed :)

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 03:09:18 -0600, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:

>Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>>On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 03:43:10 -0400, "Brian M. Scott"
>>>On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 01:20:43 -0600, Greg Goss
>
>>>> In exploring the versions, I realize that I don't know
>>>> the difference between "fiddle" and "violin". [...]
>>>
>>>There is none. Even classical violinists may refer to
>>>their instruments as fiddles. However, it is true that the
>>>term ‘fiddle’ is more likely to be used when the instrument
>>>is being used to play some kind of folk music.
>>
>>Some people make a distinction saying that it depends how you hold the
>>bow; the classical three-finger overhand grip means it's a violin, the
>>more fistlike forward grip means it's a fiddle. It does affect the
>>sound.
>>
>>The instrument itself is identical, of course.
>
>To my untrained mind, the difference seems to be pacing. The violin
>plays slow music while the fiddle is played quickly.

Oh, there's fast violin and slow fiddle. It's easier to play fast
with the fiddle grip on the bow; the violin grip gives more precise
control but is harder to maintain.

[Magewolf]

I would have to agree with that. I always thought The Pogues were trying
to out "perform" The Dubliners and it really brought out the best in the
song.

[Kevrob]

One of the things I like about traditional and folk music, is that
even when one way of singing and/or playing the tune is considered
"the most authentic," variations can still be a lot of fun. And I
do love The Pogues.

Then, again, as Louis Armstrong has been quoted as saying:
"All music is folk music.
I ain't never heard a horse sing a song."

I also reserve the right to enjoy less popular originals rather
than more popular covers. Frinstance, people rave about
Whitney Houston's bombastic cover of Dolly Parton's sweet
and sad "I Will Always Love You." Dolly has said that
Whitney made it her own, and I'm sure the royalties for that
#1 pop version paid for half of Pigeon Forge,TN, but I prefer
the songwriter's cut. It was a #1 country hit, in 1974 and again
in 1982, so it wasn't exactly obscure when Houston recorded it.

Kevin R

[Quadibloc]

On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 9:53:55 AM UTC-6, Don Bruder wrote:

> The look on her face when I told her that I'd been jamming to that song
> before she was born was priceless :) "New song" indeed :)

I recall the old joke about a girl asking her boyfriend (somewhat older than
her): Did you know that Paul McCartney was with another group before Wings?

And indeed, Bohemian Rhapsody was very popular, inspiring this _a cappela_ filk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rjbtsX7twc

John Savard

[Greg Goss]

Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:

>Then, again, as Louis Armstrong has been quoted as saying:
>"All music is folk music.
>I ain't never heard a horse sing a song."

Give me a year. Perhaps the king will die ...

[Greg Goss]

My first wife was much younger than I was. We're both Canadians.

She once asked me who my favourite band was growing up. I answered
"The Guess Who, out of Winnipeg." She answered "I thought that they
were British?"

That one moment drilled into me just how much younger someone born in
1969 was compared to someone born in 1957.

[David Johnston]

On 7/22/2015 11:41 PM, Greg Goss wrote:
> Cryptoengineer <treif...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> wrote in news:mopnke$pur$4...@dont-email.me:
>
>> Generally agreed. However, there are some cases where covers improve
>> on the original.
>
> Whichever version is on the radio when you're thirteen is the best
> version.
>

> Frigid Pink does a better cover of "House of the Rising Sun" than the
> Animals cover. "Grapevine" is a CCR classic, not that sixties guy.
>
> And sometimes it's shocking to discover something is much older than
> people think. "Whisky in the jar-oh" was a favourite of the American
> Revolutionaries (because it involved robbing a British officer) long
> before Metallica. Though I expect that the Washington crew used a bit
> less electric guitar.
>

Well, some of us know who Roger Whittaker is. (For example, Metallica
knew who Roger Whittaker was...)

[David DeLaney]

On 2015-07-23, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 9:53:55 AM UTC-6, Don Bruder wrote:
>> The look on her face when I told her that I'd been jamming to that song
>> before she was born was priceless :) "New song" indeed :)
>
> I recall the old joke about a girl asking her boyfriend (somewhat older than
> her): Did you know that Paul McCartney was with another group before Wings?

And yes, that's an old joke ... because these days it's "Did you know that
Paul McCartney was once in a band?".

Dave, and the rolling stones are STILL ROLLING

[Kevrob]

In the late 70s, I don't see how anybody could have not known who
he was. This commercial was ubiquitous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bZe6wGXngg

If Lars & co. had a TV, they saw it.

When my dad drove me places and listened to a radio station
aimed at a demographic 10-40 years older than that of ...
Seventy seven....WABC! (DING!)

http://www.musicradio77.com/jingles/series30/jgding.wav

....we would here Roger W pretty often. Durham Town, New World In the
Morning, etc. He had a nice voice, but he made Perry Como sound
like Screamin' Jay Hawkins.

Kevin R

[Don Bruder]

In article <m82dnf3Une2wBCzI...@earthlink.com>,

David DeLaney <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> On 2015-07-23, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> > On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 9:53:55 AM UTC-6, Don Bruder wrote:
> >> The look on her face when I told her that I'd been jamming to that song
> >> before she was born was priceless :) "New song" indeed :)
> >
> > I recall the old joke about a girl asking her boyfriend (somewhat older
> > than
> > her): Did you know that Paul McCartney was with another group before Wings?
>
> And yes, that's an old joke ... because these days it's "Did you know that
> Paul McCartney was once in a band?".
>
> Dave, and the rolling stones are STILL ROLLING

And Rush is still Rushing :)

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <4706fa69-036b-440b...@googlegroups.com>,

Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 8:48:24 PM UTC-4, David Johnston wrote:
>> On 7/22/2015 11:41 PM, Greg Goss wrote:
>> > Cryptoengineer <treif...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> wrote in news:mopnke$pur$4...@dont-email.me:
>> >
>> >> Generally agreed. However, there are some cases where covers improve
>> >> on the original.
>> >
>> > Whichever version is on the radio when you're thirteen is the best
>> > version.
>> >
>> > Frigid Pink does a better cover of "House of the Rising Sun" than the
>> > Animals cover. "Grapevine" is a CCR classic, not that sixties guy.
>> >
>> > And sometimes it's shocking to discover something is much older than
>> > people think. "Whisky in the jar-oh" was a favourite of the American
>> > Revolutionaries (because it involved robbing a British officer) long
>> > before Metallica. Though I expect that the Washington crew used a bit
>> > less electric guitar.
>> >
>>
>> Well, some of us know who Roger Whittaker is. (For example, Metallica
>> knew who Roger Whittaker was...)
>
>In the late 70s, I don't see how anybody could have not known who
>he was. This commercial was ubiquitous.
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bZe6wGXngg

Ah, yes, "All My Best" is the album with the version of "Whisky In THe Jar"
(aka "Kilgary Mountain") that I was talking about. I have the 2 LPs and
never saw the set on CD. (I also don't think this version of
"Kilgary Mountain" is what comes up if you search for it on youtube).

>
>....we would here Roger W pretty often. Durham Town, New World In the
>Morning, etc. He had a nice voice, but he made Perry Como sound
>like Screamin' Jay Hawkins.
>

"Durham Town" & NWITM have aged very well, "Mammy Blue" not so much.

Definitely not a rocker, but I think his version of "Whiskey" does
have a lot of energy.

Of course his greatest claim to fame in the US was probably taking
an old style ballad "The Last Farewell" into the Top 20 in 1975.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[Brian M. Scott]

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 20:20:15 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob
<kev...@my-deja.com> wrote
in<news:4706fa69-036b-440b...@googlegroups.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written:

> On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 8:48:24 PM UTC-4, David
> Johnston wrote:

[...]

>> Well, some of us know who Roger Whittaker is. (For
>> example, Metallica knew who Roger Whittaker was...)

> In the late 70s, I don't see how anybody could have not
> known who he was.

Very easily.

> This commercial was ubiquitous.

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bZe6wGXngg

> If Lars & co. had a TV, they saw it.

Fortunately, I had no TV.

[J. Clarke]

In article <mosbih$mbh$2...@dont-email.me>, dak...@sonic.net says...

>
> In article <m82dnf3Une2wBCzI...@earthlink.com>,
> David DeLaney <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > On 2015-07-23, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> > > On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 9:53:55 AM UTC-6, Don Bruder wrote:
> > >> The look on her face when I told her that I'd been jamming to that song
> > >> before she was born was priceless :) "New song" indeed :)
> > >
> > > I recall the old joke about a girl asking her boyfriend (somewhat older
> > > than
> > > her): Did you know that Paul McCartney was with another group before Wings?
> >
> > And yes, that's an old joke ... because these days it's "Did you know that
> > Paul McCartney was once in a band?".
> >
> > Dave, and the rolling stones are STILL ROLLING
>
> And Rush is still Rushing :)

Thanks for that trip down memory lane. I do rememer when the
association "Rush" brought up was a band and not a comedian.

[Brian M. Scott]

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 17:21:08 -0600, Greg Goss
<go...@gossg.org> wrote
in<news:d1db78...@mid.individual.net> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

[...]

> That one moment drilled into me just how much younger
> someone born in 1969 was compared to someone born in
> 1957.

My ex-wife is about 15 years younger than I. The only time
this was really obvious was one day when we were watching a
documentary on the Civil Defense years, duck and cover,
etc.: I *remembered* the things that made her jaw hit the
floor.

I later had for a couple of years a girlfriend who is
almost 30 years younger than I, but I’ve never really felt
the age difference.

[Kevrob]

On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 4:11:02 AM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:
> In article <mosbih$mbh$2...@dont-email.me>, dak...@sonic.net says...
> >
> > In article <m82dnf3Une2wBCzI...@earthlink.com>,
> > David DeLaney <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > > On 2015-07-23, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 9:53:55 AM UTC-6, Don Bruder wrote:
> > > >> The look on her face when I told her that I'd been jamming to that song
> > > >> before she was born was priceless :) "New song" indeed :)
> > > >
> > > > I recall the old joke about a girl asking her boyfriend (somewhat older
> > > > than
> > > > her): Did you know that Paul McCartney was with another group before Wings?
> > >
> > > And yes, that's an old joke ... because these days it's "Did you know that
> > > Paul McCartney was once in a band?".
> > >

A Billy Crystal joke, featuring his daughter..

http://www.mtvhive.com/2012/02/21/who-is-paul-mccartney/?all=1

> > > Dave, and the rolling stones are STILL ROLLING
> >
> > And Rush is still Rushing :)
>
> Thanks for that trip down memory lane. I do rememer when the
> association "Rush" brought up was a band and not a comedian.

...or isobutyl nitrite.

I don't think Neil Peart would appreciate being accused of rushing.
It'd be worse if you'd said he was dragging.

Kevin R

[T Guy]

I am with you re Parton vs. Houston. 'Bombastic' is probably doing Houston a favour.

[T Guy]

On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 5:28:34 PM UTC+1, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> "Spice Girls"
> http://www.xkcd.com/1554/
>
> "The Earth's five major mass extinctions were the Posh Extinction, the Sporty Extinction, the Scary Extinction, the Ginger
> Extinction, and the Baby Extinction."
>
> Cute.
>
> Lynn

One or more friends of mine used to refer to them as Old, Dark, Nursey and Moosey. And whatever they called 'Posh,' which I have forgotten.

[Mark Bestley]

David DeLaney <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> On 2015-07-23, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:

> > Cryptoengineer <treif...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>Generally agreed. However, there are some cases where covers improve
> >>on the original.
> >

> > "Me and Bobbi McGee" was a big hit in Canada years before Janis ruined
> > it. To me the Lightfoot version is the real one, but the great masses
> > disagree with me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8O0GgcenVU
>
> And of course there's Bruce Springsteen versus Manfred Mann's Earth Band...
>
> Dave, deuce wah diddy diddy

er ... given that sig Dylan vs Manfred Mann

--
Mark

[John F. Eldredge]

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 20:47:25 -0500, David DeLaney wrote:

> On 2015-07-23, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 9:53:55 AM UTC-6, Don Bruder wrote:
>>> The look on her face when I told her that I'd been jamming to that
>>> song before she was born was priceless :) "New song" indeed :)
>>
>> I recall the old joke about a girl asking her boyfriend (somewhat older
>> than her): Did you know that Paul McCartney was with another group
>> before Wings?
>
> And yes, that's an old joke ... because these days it's "Did you know
> that Paul McCartney was once in a band?".
>
> Dave, and the rolling stones are STILL ROLLING

Come 2100, I suspect Keith Richards will still be around. He seems to
have found the secret of eternal life, but not eternal youth.

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

>I am with you re Parton vs. Houston. 'Bombastic' is probably doing Houston a favour.

I never quite got why Houston was so bloody popular. "Bombastic"
sounds about right.

[Kevrob]

Referring to this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIQLIx2Onw

Or MM (or MMEB) v The Exciters

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exciters

As for the sig, let's not forget Bo Diddley

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYaWTCY0Tns

also Taj Mahal, and others.

Kevin R

[Kevrob]

On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 12:57:46 PM UTC-4, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 05:42:38 -0700 (PDT), T Guy
> <tim.b...@redbridge.gov.uk> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 8:21:40 PM UTC+1, Kevrob wrote:
> >> On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 3:03:53 PM UTC-4, Magewolf wrote:
> >> > On 7/23/2015 8:36 AM, leif...@dimnakorr.com wrote:
> >> > > Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I also reserve the right to enjoy less popular originals rather
> >> than more popular covers. Frinstance, people rave about
> >> Whitney Houston's bombastic cover of Dolly Parton's sweet
> >> and sad "I Will Always Love You." Dolly has said that
> >> Whitney made it her own, and I'm sure the royalties for that
> >> #1 pop version paid for half of Pigeon Forge,TN, but I prefer
> >> the songwriter's cut. It was a #1 country hit, in 1974 and again
> >> in 1982, so it wasn't exactly obscure when Houston recorded it.
> >
> >I am with you re Parton vs. Houston. 'Bombastic' is probably doing Houston a favour.
>
> I never quite got why Houston was so bloody popular. "Bombastic"
> sounds about right.

Great set of pipes, though the melismic gymnastics aren't my
favorite style of pop singing. Also, before the drugs started
taking their toll, she was beautiful.

Kevin R

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 10:46:19 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com>
wrote:

True enough.

[David Goldfarb]

In article <4706fa69-036b-440b...@googlegroups.com>,
Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 8:48:24 PM UTC-4, David Johnston wrote:
>> Well, some of us know who Roger Whittaker is. (For example, Metallica
>> knew who Roger Whittaker was...)
>
>In the late 70s, I don't see how anybody could have not known who
>he was. This commercial was ubiquitous.
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bZe6wGXngg
>
>If Lars & co. had a TV, they saw it.

I was born in 1968, and in the late '70s I watched plenty of television,
and I can tell you that I had never heard of Roger Whittaker or seen
that commercial before today.

--
David Goldfarb |
goldf...@gmail.com | Horace Gerstenblut n'existe pas.
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu |

[Mark Bestley]

Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:

> On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 11:47:20 AM UTC-4, Mark Bestley wrote:
> > David DeLaney <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > > On 2015-07-23, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote: > Cryptoengineer
> > > <treif...@gmail.com> wrote: >>Generally agreed. However, there are
> > > some cases where covers improve >>on the original. > > "Me and Bobbi
> > > McGee" was a big hit in Canada years before Janis ruined > it. To me
> > > the Lightfoot version is the real one, but the great masses > disagree
> > > with me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8O0GgcenVU
> > >
> > > And of course there's Bruce Springsteen versus Manfred Mann's Earth
> > > Band...
> > >
> > > Dave, deuce wah diddy diddy
> >
> > er ... given that sig Dylan vs Manfred Mann
>
> Referring to this?
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIQLIx2Onw
>

Well yes but first thought was this
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YBcZPtxwzk> and there are others

> Or MM (or MMEB) v The Exciters
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exciters
>


> As for the sig, let's not forget Bo Diddley
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYaWTCY0Tns
>

that is not the same Do wha Diddy

> also Taj Mahal, and others.
>

--
Mark

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <d1f7ql...@mid.individual.net>,

Maybe he's just pickled.

[Don Bruder]

In article <ns08J...@kithrup.com>,

gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) wrote:

> In article <4706fa69-036b-440b...@googlegroups.com>,
> Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 8:48:24 PM UTC-4, David Johnston wrote:
> >> Well, some of us know who Roger Whittaker is. (For example, Metallica
> >> knew who Roger Whittaker was...)
> >
> >In the late 70s, I don't see how anybody could have not known who
> >he was. This commercial was ubiquitous.
> >
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bZe6wGXngg
> >
> >If Lars & co. had a TV, they saw it.
>
> I was born in 1968, and in the late '70s I watched plenty of television,
> and I can tell you that I had never heard of Roger Whittaker or seen
> that commercial before today.

I've got no idea how you could have missed it... It got played so often
that on more than one occasion, it came on channel 10, so I flipped to
channel 4, found it at a slightly different point, flipped to channel 8,
and hit it at yet another point - It was literally on every channel!
(Back then, we had no cable - just the big three networks, and when
conditions were JUST right, a PBS station would sometimes come in well
enough to watch)

[Don Bruder]

In article <d1f7ql...@mid.individual.net>,
"John F. Eldredge" <jo...@jfeldredge.com> wrote:

Heh... Keith Richards, Cockroaches, and Twinkies - the three things that
will survive WWIII :)

[Kevrob]

Which one, then?

> > also Taj Mahal, and others.
> >

Another Mann v Dylan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Yk-LsIaj_M

Kevin R

[Kevrob]

In the Diddie wars...

I wish someone would tell me what Diddie wah Diddie means.

Blind Blake v Leon Redbone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-C-Rj4xruA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oevAnuzMUMg

Let's not even bring Mr Sean John Combs into it.

Seán*=John. He's "John John Combs" for cryin' out loud!
No wonder he's changed his name several times.

Kevin R

*Seaghán before the 1950s spelling reforms in Irish.

[Robert Carnegie]

On Thursday, 23 July 2015 22:48:58 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:

> I recall the old joke about a girl asking her boyfriend (somewhat older than
> her): Did you know that Paul McCartney was with another group before Wings?

Recalls this, unverified but recently read at
<http://www.celebritywit.com/archives/000255.html>

"Kelly Rowland, of Destiny's Child:
"You know how the Beatles broke off, they all did their solo
projects, and then they came back together and they were
even stronger?"

Page title and comment: "Um, I'm Gonna Go with 'No'."

[Robert Carnegie]

On Wednesday, 22 July 2015 19:00:15 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> Although I never paid much attention to the Spice Girls while they were active as
> a group, later on through YouTube I discovered that "Baby Spice", Emma Bunton,
> has had a successful subsequent solo career - and, indeed, that she can actually
> sing rather well.
>
> And she even seems to have good taste in music, having reprised such classic hits
> as "Downtown", "Where Did Our Love Go", and "Crickets Sing for Annamaria".

Not pointing the finger in this case, but some performers
might starve if they had to write their own songs. On the
other hand, some writers probably can't sing. I guess
Beethoven?, think about it.

And it's an odd effect of convenient music recordings
that a song is ever considered to belong to one performer -
since everyone can hear that recording, and it becomes
"the" version.

For legal or union or contract reasons, it used to be
that many songs "belonged" to different artists in
the U.S. and the United Kingdom.

As an aside, I think the animated film _Shrek 2_
in particular had more familiar British voices when
I saw it than when an American did, since they'd be
unfamiliar British voices there. I'm considering
Jonathan Ross specifically. I'm assuming most of
you are no wiser.

If you're allowed to use BBC "iPlayer Radio" (may require
Adobe Flash and a British address), this music show - if
I'm pointing at the correct, most recently repeated episode -
<http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00m38jp>
- featured a one-off round of "songs that you didn't
know are covers" by playing the previous recording.
Of these, "Bye Bye Baby" may be the head-scratcher
for you - and the "more famous" version too.

[Cryptoengineer]

Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in
news:f910dc11-20a6-49f4...@googlegroups.com:

> On Wednesday, 22 July 2015 19:00:15 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
>> Although I never paid much attention to the Spice Girls while they
>> were active as a group, later on through YouTube I discovered that
>> "Baby Spice", Emma Bunton, has had a successful subsequent solo
>> career - and, indeed, that she can actually sing rather well.
>>
>> And she even seems to have good taste in music, having reprised such
>> classic hits as "Downtown", "Where Did Our Love Go", and "Crickets
>> Sing for Annamaria".
>
> Not pointing the finger in this case, but some performers
> might starve if they had to write their own songs. On the
> other hand, some writers probably can't sing. I guess
> Beethoven?, think about it.
>
> And it's an odd effect of convenient music recordings
> that a song is ever considered to belong to one performer -
> since everyone can hear that recording, and it becomes
> "the" version.
>
> For legal or union or contract reasons, it used to be
> that many songs "belonged" to different artists in
> the U.S. and the United Kingdom.

Songs can also wind up in differentt cultural contexts.

"You'll never walk alone" is from the Broadway musical
"Carousel", in which it's used to inspire hope for the
future in a young woman in desparate circumstances. In
the US, its almost a secular hymn.

But in Britain, it's indelibely associated with soccer
matches, being sung in the stands, especially at Liverpool FC.

Songs can also be reappropriated in weird ways. "Tommorow
Belongs To Me", was written by Kander and Ebb, (both Jewish)
for 'Cabaret', in which it creepily shows the initial appeal of
Naziism.

However, it's since been appropriated by the White Supremacist
movement as an anthem, and you can find versions as lovely as
Saga's, or as aggressive as Skrewdriver's.

pt

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <c4ea4d5d-0471-4f8e...@googlegroups.com>,

I don't know. You could possibly make a case that was "Abbey Road"..

And actually now the old joke doesn't work, since no kids have any
idea who Paul McCartney is..

[Kevrob]

The LP "Ringo" by Ringo Starr....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringo_%28album%29

...has all 4 Beatles on it, but no more than 3 on the same track,
"I'm the Greatest." "Photograph" was #1 in the US and #8 in the UK.

Kevin R

[William December Starr]

In article <MPG.301bbd707...@news.eternal-september.org>,

"J. Clarke" <j.clark...@gmail.com> said:

> Thanks for that trip down memory lane. I do rememer when the
> association "Rush" brought up was a band and not a comedian.

Oh he's not funny.

-- wds

[Gary R. Schmidt]

My then 11- and now 12-year old does - but only because he was foolish
enough to recently do a track with some luser who needs an autotune to
hold key. Come to think of it, possibly Sir Paul needs the services of
an autotune as well, these days!

Cheers,
Gary B-)

--
When men talk to their friends, they insult each other.
They don't really mean it.
When women talk to their friends, they compliment each other.
They don't mean it either.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <6msh8c-...@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au>,

Gary R. Schmidt <grsc...@acm.org> wrote:
>On 27/07/2015 1:26 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> In article <c4ea4d5d-0471-4f8e...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, 23 July 2015 22:48:58 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>
>>>> I recall the old joke about a girl asking her boyfriend (somewhat older than
>>>> her): Did you know that Paul McCartney was with another group before Wings?
>>>
>>> Recalls this, unverified but recently read at
>>> <http://www.celebritywit.com/archives/000255.html>
>>>
>>> "Kelly Rowland, of Destiny's Child:
>>> "You know how the Beatles broke off, they all did their solo
>>> projects, and then they came back together and they were
>>> even stronger?"
>>>
>>> Page title and comment: "Um, I'm Gonna Go with 'No'."
>>
>> I don't know. You could possibly make a case that was "Abbey Road"..
>>
>> And actually now the old joke doesn't work, since no kids have any
>> idea who Paul McCartney is..
>>
>My then 11- and now 12-year old does - but only because he was foolish
>enough to recently do a track with some luser who needs an autotune to
>hold key. Come to think of it, possibly Sir Paul needs the services of
>an autotune as well, these days!
>

I saw him in the late 90s in Charlotte when he still sounded like The Beatles.
I heard him on NPR last year and he sounded like an old man, so I skipped
his recent Columbia concert, though reviews make me wish I had not.
(Especially since the Beach Boys 50th anniv tour was incredible, and I
shelled out for 85 year old Tony Bennett..)

Frank Sinatra is an interesting case as my young cousins seem more aware
of him (actively aware as in "he's on my ipod") than 60s stuff. Having
songs from all eras equally available and effectively free (though I'm
sure my cousins paid legally :-) makes for some unexpected cultural quirks.

[Anthony Nance]

Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, 22 July 2015 19:00:15 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
>> Although I never paid much attention to the Spice Girls while they were active as
>> a group, later on through YouTube I discovered that "Baby Spice", Emma Bunton,
>> has had a successful subsequent solo career - and, indeed, that she can actually
>> sing rather well.
>>
>> And she even seems to have good taste in music, having reprised such classic hits
>> as "Downtown", "Where Did Our Love Go", and "Crickets Sing for Annamaria".
>
> Not pointing the finger in this case, but some performers
> might starve if they had to write their own songs. On the
> other hand, some writers probably can't sing.

Indeed, but this makes sense to me since they are two different skills.
- Tony

[Don Bruder]

In article <f910dc11-20a6-49f4...@googlegroups.com>,

Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday, 22 July 2015 19:00:15 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> > Although I never paid much attention to the Spice Girls while they were
> > active as
> > a group, later on through YouTube I discovered that "Baby Spice", Emma
> > Bunton,
> > has had a successful subsequent solo career - and, indeed, that she can
> > actually
> > sing rather well.
> >
> > And she even seems to have good taste in music, having reprised such
> > classic hits
> > as "Downtown", "Where Did Our Love Go", and "Crickets Sing for Annamaria".
>
> Not pointing the finger in this case, but some performers
> might starve if they had to write their own songs. On the
> other hand, some writers probably can't sing.

I'll go out on a limb and say that the majority of performers WOULD
starve if they had to write their own songs. And the converse - Most
songwriters would starve if they had to sing their own material.

Case in Point: Meat Loaf & Jim Steinman - Ol' "Meat" couldn't write a
song to save his life (based on the crap I've heard when he's attempted
it) But can that boy sing? Whooo, doggies! Steinman? I've heard him try
to sing (try being the operative word) and I'll testify that he couldn't
carry a tune across a room if you fitted him with velcro gloves and put
it in a wool bucket for him. But writing them is a whole different
story. Then give Meat a song Jim wrote, and... Well, ever heard of an
"obscure" little album titled "Bat Out of Hell"?

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

I'll see your Meat Loaf and raise you a Sinatra.

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 09:04:01 -0700, Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net>
wrote:

>I'll go out on a limb and say that the majority of performers WOULD
>starve if they had to write their own songs. And the converse - Most
>songwriters would starve if they had to sing their own material.
>
>Case in Point: Meat Loaf & Jim Steinman - Ol' "Meat" couldn't write a
>song to save his life (based on the crap I've heard when he's attempted
>it) But can that boy sing? Whooo, doggies! Steinman? I've heard him try
>to sing (try being the operative word) and I'll testify that he couldn't
>carry a tune across a room if you fitted him with velcro gloves and put
>it in a wool bucket for him. But writing them is a whole different
>story. Then give Meat a song Jim wrote, and... Well, ever heard of an
>"obscure" little album titled "Bat Out of Hell"?

There are other singers that owe their careers to Jim Steinman, as
well -- Bonnie Tyler, for example, if you can call it a career when
all anyone knows by her is the one song Steinman wrote her.

[Mike M]

Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 09:04:01 -0700, Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net>
> wrote:
>
>> I'll go out on a limb and say that the majority of performers WOULD
>> starve if they had to write their own songs. And the converse - Most
>> songwriters would starve if they had to sing their own material.
>>
>> Case in Point: Meat Loaf & Jim Steinman - Ol' "Meat" couldn't write a
>> song to save his life (based on the crap I've heard when he's attempted
>> it) But can that boy sing? Whooo, doggies! Steinman? I've heard him try
>> to sing (try being the operative word) and I'll testify that he couldn't
>> carry a tune across a room if you fitted him with velcro gloves and put
>> it in a wool bucket for him. But writing them is a whole different
>> story. Then give Meat a song Jim wrote, and... Well, ever heard of an
>> "obscure" little album titled "Bat Out of Hell"?
>
> There are other singers that owe their careers to Jim Steinman, as
> well -- Bonnie Tyler, for example, if you can call it a career when
> all anyone knows by her is the one song Steinman wrote her.
>

At least three, and all big hits.

"Holding Out For a Hero".
"Faster Than The Speed Of Night".
And "Total Eclipse Of The Heart".

(Her first big success, "Lost In France", was not a Steinman number).

--
So much universe, and so little time. - Sir Terry Pratchett

[David Johnston]

On 7/28/2015 10:51 AM, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 09:04:01 -0700, Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net>
> wrote:
>
>> I'll go out on a limb and say that the majority of performers WOULD
>> starve if they had to write their own songs. And the converse - Most
>> songwriters would starve if they had to sing their own material.
>>
>> Case in Point: Meat Loaf & Jim Steinman - Ol' "Meat" couldn't write a
>> song to save his life (based on the crap I've heard when he's attempted
>> it) But can that boy sing? Whooo, doggies! Steinman? I've heard him try
>> to sing (try being the operative word) and I'll testify that he couldn't
>> carry a tune across a room if you fitted him with velcro gloves and put
>> it in a wool bucket for him. But writing them is a whole different
>> story. Then give Meat a song Jim wrote, and... Well, ever heard of an
>> "obscure" little album titled "Bat Out of Hell"?
>
> There are other singers that owe their careers to Jim Steinman, as
> well -- Bonnie Tyler, for example, if you can call it a career when
> all anyone knows by her is the one song Steinman wrote her.

Bonnie Tyler had two popular songs.

[Scott Lurndal]

Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> writes:
>In article <f910dc11-20a6-49f4...@googlegroups.com>,
> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, 22 July 2015 19:00:15 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
>> > Although I never paid much attention to the Spice Girls while they were
>> > active as
>> > a group, later on through YouTube I discovered that "Baby Spice", Emma
>> > Bunton,
>> > has had a successful subsequent solo career - and, indeed, that she can
>> > actually
>> > sing rather well.
>> >
>> > And she even seems to have good taste in music, having reprised such
>> > classic hits
>> > as "Downtown", "Where Did Our Love Go", and "Crickets Sing for Annamaria".
>>
>> Not pointing the finger in this case, but some performers
>> might starve if they had to write their own songs. On the
>> other hand, some writers probably can't sing.
>
>I'll go out on a limb and say that the majority of performers WOULD
>starve if they had to write their own songs. And the converse - Most
>songwriters would starve if they had to sing their own material.

Bob Dylan, Don Mclean and Neil Diamond being notable exceptions.

>
>Case in Point: Meat Loaf & Jim Steinman - Ol' "Meat" couldn't write a
>song to save his life (based on the crap I've heard when he's attempted
>it) But can that boy sing? Whooo, doggies! Steinman? I've heard him try
>to sing (try being the operative word) and I'll testify that he couldn't
>carry a tune across a room if you fitted him with velcro gloves and put
>it in a wool bucket for him. But writing them is a whole different
>story. Then give Meat a song Jim wrote, and... Well, ever heard of an
>"obscure" little album titled "Bat Out of Hell"?

With a little help from the runt... at least on the title track.

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> wrote in
news:mp892k$ip1$1...@dont-email.me:

> Case in Point: Meat Loaf & Jim Steinman - Ol' "Meat" couldn't
> write a song to save his life (based on the crap I've heard when
> he's attempted it) But can that boy sing? Whooo, doggies!
> Steinman? I've heard him try to sing (try being the operative
> word) and I'll testify that he couldn't carry a tune across a
> room if you fitted him with velcro gloves and put it in a wool
> bucket for him. But writing them is a whole different story.
> Then give Meat a song Jim wrote, and... Well, ever heard of an
> "obscure" little album titled "Bat Out of Hell"?
>

That album is a good deal of the reason I mostly listen to Country &
Western. Because the world of rock spend the 80s trying desperately
to be like it, and failing. Mostly, faily badly.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

[Quadibloc]

I can think of "It's a Heartache" and "Total Eclipse of the Heart".

By the way, this song from Finland sounds an awful lot like the sort of thing
she, or a similar country singer, might have sung, but apparently it's a
Finnish original. Would anybody be able to suggest a song that sounds similar
to it that I might be thinking of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBqBIDlsrwY

John Savard

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

I stand corrected; I was thinking of "Total Eclipse of the Heart," and
am seriously embarrassed to have forgotten "Faster Than the Speed of
Night."

"Holding Out for a Hero" I forgive myself for forgetting; it's not
quite as good.

>(Her first big success, "Lost In France", was not a Steinman number).

Never heard of it.

[Don Bruder]

In article <inPtx.485$XZ5...@fx19.iad>,

sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

> Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> writes:
> >In article <f910dc11-20a6-49f4...@googlegroups.com>,
> > Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wednesday, 22 July 2015 19:00:15 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> >> > Although I never paid much attention to the Spice Girls while they were
> >> > active as
> >> > a group, later on through YouTube I discovered that "Baby Spice", Emma
> >> > Bunton,
> >> > has had a successful subsequent solo career - and, indeed, that she can
> >> > actually
> >> > sing rather well.
> >> >
> >> > And she even seems to have good taste in music, having reprised such
> >> > classic hits
> >> > as "Downtown", "Where Did Our Love Go", and "Crickets Sing for
> >> > Annamaria".
> >>
> >> Not pointing the finger in this case, but some performers
> >> might starve if they had to write their own songs. On the
> >> other hand, some writers probably can't sing.
> >
> >I'll go out on a limb and say that the majority of performers WOULD
> >starve if they had to write their own songs. And the converse - Most
> >songwriters would starve if they had to sing their own material.
>
> Bob Dylan, Don Mclean and Neil Diamond being notable exceptions.

I'll assume you missed the parts where I said "the majority of
performers", and "most songwriters" rather than "every performer" and
"all songwriters"?

[Greg Goss]

Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:

>Not pointing the finger in this case, but some performers
>might starve if they had to write their own songs. On the
>other hand, some writers probably can't sing.

I was surprised when Dylan was able to carry a tune on "Tweeter and
the Monkey Man" (released under a pseudonym), since I hate him on
absolutely everything else he sung. I like several of his songs as
done by other people.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.

[Greg Goss]

Mike M <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:

>> There are other singers that owe their careers to Jim Steinman, as
>> well -- Bonnie Tyler, for example, if you can call it a career when
>> all anyone knows by her is the one song Steinman wrote her.
>>
>
>At least three, and all big hits.
>
>"Holding Out For a Hero".
>"Faster Than The Speed Of Night".
>And "Total Eclipse Of The Heart".
>
>(Her first big success, "Lost In France", was not a Steinman number).

But three of those four are forgotten by everyone (defined as "me" --
grin).

[Greg Goss]

Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Tuesday, July 28, 2015 at 11:05:44 AM UTC-6, David Johnston wrote:
>> On 7/28/2015 10:51 AM, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>
>> > There are other singers that owe their careers to Jim Steinman, as
>> > well -- Bonnie Tyler, for example, if you can call it a career when
>> > all anyone knows by her is the one song Steinman wrote her.
>
>> Bonnie Tyler had two popular songs.
>
>I can think of "It's a Heartache" and "Total Eclipse of the Heart".

OK, I remember "It's a Hartache", but that wasn't on Mike's list and I
don't have it filed under any particular artist in my head. (My
filing system tends to avoid using names, much to my frustration a lot
of the time.)

[David Johnston]

I was omitting "It's a Heartache" from my list on the grounds that she
was just covering an already popular song.

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 20:18:51 -0600, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:

>Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>
>>Not pointing the finger in this case, but some performers
>>might starve if they had to write their own songs. On the
>>other hand, some writers probably can't sing.
>
>I was surprised when Dylan was able to carry a tune on "Tweeter and
>the Monkey Man" (released under a pseudonym), since I hate him on
>absolutely everything else he sung. I like several of his songs as
>done by other people.

I saw him in concert once back in the '70s, and for some reason he
really felt like singing that night -- he was really, really good,
better than on any of his albums that I've ever heard. It was
astonishing. He CAN sing. Why he usually doesn't I have no idea.

[Kevrob]

aka "It's an Earache" or "It's an Earworm."

Juice Newton covered Tyler. Who recorded it before either of them?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_a_Heartache

Kevin R

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <d8qgralm4q0pje4tf...@reader80.eternal-september.org>,

Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 20:18:51 -0600, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>
>>Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Not pointing the finger in this case, but some performers
>>>might starve if they had to write their own songs. On the
>>>other hand, some writers probably can't sing.
>>
>>I was surprised when Dylan was able to carry a tune on "Tweeter and
>>the Monkey Man" (released under a pseudonym), since I hate him on
>>absolutely everything else he sung. I like several of his songs as
>>done by other people.
>
>I saw him in concert once back in the '70s, and for some reason he
>really felt like singing that night -- he was really, really good,
>better than on any of his albums that I've ever heard. It was
>astonishing. He CAN sing. Why he usually doesn't I have no idea.
>

I think at this point it's "He COULD sing".

And "Lay, Lady Lay" proves the point..

[Mike M]

I didn't Google her discography, just remembered her Steinman hits and for
some reason, her first single. I'd managed to erase "Heartache" from my
memory.

On this front, on hearing Kim Carnes' "Bette Davis Eyes" I misfiled that in
my head as a Bonnie Tyler number and even now have to think twice before
recalling that it wasn't her.

[Anthony Nance]

Wait - Steinman wrote a song for Sinatra? So confused ...

[Quadibloc]

Conversely, most rock-and-roll bands these days do write thei own material,
because song royalties are a better source of money than what they're paid to
perform - or so I've heard. Thus, Tin Pan Alley is on hard times.

John Savard

[Anthony Nance]

That might be overstating it a little. At least, from what
I can dig up, I think the song was written with Tyler in mind,
she recorded it around the same time Juice Newton did, but may
have released it a little later, and Newton's version was not
so well known in the US when Tyler's version was released.

I'm interested to knowmore if anyone knows/learns anything.
Tony

[Mike M]

Written by Tyler's managers. Her version released November 77, #3 in the
U.S., #4 in the UK. Covered by Juice Newton in April 78, that version only
charting at #86 (may have done better in Country charts, if you had such
things back then). Covered a zillion times since.

[Quadibloc]

On Tuesday, July 28, 2015 at 11:59:09 PM UTC-6, Kevrob wrote:

> aka "It's an Earache" or "It's an Earworm."

It certainly was very popular in other countries.

Finnish:
Vieraat Huoneet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuRz6ht16Bg

Hungarian:
Szívfájdalom
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIWIRk9Cw6s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecXbcNlht7c

German:
Laß mein Knie, Joe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFG1CqUvx8Q

Norwegian:
Flyt din hånd John
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WAte66c-J8

French:
Et je m'en vais
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saIvwI7I46c

(A completely different French song with the same title came out in 1963, sung
by Richard Anthony.)

Italian:
Notti Bianche
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10ZuGI6tcOA

Korean:
가슴 아퍼
...apparently no longer available on YouTube.

Ah, a search turned up some *more*:

Swedish:
Om du går nu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKzVqv7yeC8

Czech:
Jen se hádej
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGxeNc4gxl4

And a different French version, which features Bonnie Tyler herself alongside another artist:
Si tout s'arrête
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L3UITaDlck

So if anyone is not afraid of earworms, there is much to enjoy on YouTube.

John Savard

[Quadibloc]

On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 7:30:50 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:

> Korean:
> 가슴 아퍼
> ...apparently no longer available on YouTube.

Apparently, the artist was Hye Eun-Yee (혜은이) in the video I can no longer find.

John Savard

[Greg Goss]

na...@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) wrote:

>Juice Newton

Speaking of Juice (and a much earlier version that my brother had),
there's a song that plays at my bar all the time that sounds just like
"Angel of the Morning" with rappy bits added.

Does the new one credit the original?

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

On Wed, 29 Jul 2015 11:13:09 -0600, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:

>na...@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) wrote:
>
>>Juice Newton
>
>Speaking of Juice (and a much earlier version that my brother had),
>there's a song that plays at my bar all the time that sounds just like
>"Angel of the Morning" with rappy bits added.
>
>Does the new one credit the original?

Just checking: You do know the original is MUCH older than Juice
Newton's version, right?

[Kevrob]

On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 1:13:19 PM UTC-4, Greg Goss wrote:
> na...@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) wrote:
>
> >Juice Newton
>
> Speaking of Juice (and a much earlier version that my brother had),
> there's a song that plays at my bar all the time that sounds just like
> "Angel of the Morning" with rappy bits added.
>
> Does the new one credit the original?

You mean the one by Merilee Rush? Juice's was a cover of that one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_of_the_Morning

Writer: Chip Taylor.

Kevin R