Chinese Food

[William Vetter]

Quote below comes from _The Chinese Takeout Cookbook_, by Diana Kuan,
which describes named dishes as they have come to be served in Chinese
Restaurants located in the US, which are familiar to white Americans,
and may have only a tenous link to China.

General Tso’s: the chicken that conquered America

You may know this dish as General Tso’s, General Zuo’s, General Joe’s,
or another variation. Although in one spelling or another, his name
graces the menus of tens of thousands of Chinese restaurants around
the
United States, the real-life Zuo Zongtang was never a chef and never
even tasted his namesake chicken dish. He was, in fact, a nineteenth
-century general known for squashing military uprisings and one of
China’s most famed historical figures.

A century later, one of his many admirers was Peng Chang-kuei, a chef
from Hunan province who cooked for the Nationalist government during
the Chinese civil war. In 1949, to escape the impending Communist
takeover, he fled to Taiwan where for two decades he continued his
career as a chef. It was in Taiwan that he created a dish of fried
spicy and tangy chicken and named it after the famed general. The
chicken was not from a standard repertoire of classic Hunan recipes,
but its strong flavor components had been characteristic of the
province’s cooking for centuries.

In the early 1970s, New York was experiencing a renewed love affair
with
Chinese food and seeking flavors beyond Cantonese cuisine. (This was
further fueled by Richard Nixon’s historic 1972 trip to China and
televised banquet dinner with the Chinese premier.) Two chefs from New
York made separate trips to Taiwan looking for inspiration for new
regional cuisines and ended up eating at Chef Peng’s restaurant. When
the chefs returned, they opened Hunan restaurants in New York within
weeks of each other, with conspicuously similar menus, including
versions of Peng’s innovative chicken dish. Both restaurants gained
critical and commercial success. By the time Chef Peng arrived in New
York and opened his own Hunan restaurant in midtown, his version of
Hunan food, including General Tso’s Chicken, was no longer
groundbreaking. He did, however, continue to reap the benefits of
Hunan’s popularity, not to mention draw such notable fans as Henry
Kissinger, who ate at the restaurant on his frequent trips to New
York.

Because General Tso’s Chicken was created in Taiwan and made famous in
the United States, it’s no surprise that few people in Hunan have ever
heard of it. However, it still embodies the spirit of Hunan cooking
and
history, and is a shining example of the inventiveness and legacy of
the cultural adaptation of the Chinese in America.


Considering above history, is General Tso's Chicken to be considered
Chinese-American food, like Chop Suey, Egg Foo Yung, Shrimp Toast, Chow
Mein, Crab Rangoon....

[Stephen Graham]

On 5/26/2015 2:20 PM, William Vetter wrote:

> Considering above history, is General Tso's Chicken to be considered
> Chinese-American food, like Chop Suey, Egg Foo Yung, Shrimp Toast, Chow
> Mein, Crab Rangoon....

In this vein, you might be interested in John Roberts' From China to
Chinatown: Chinese Food in the West.

[William Vetter]

I had not seen this one, but there are several similar books. Google
shows me the author uses the name J. A. G. Roberts on its cover.

[pete...@gmail.com]

I'd also be curious to find out how Western cuisines have been adapted in China.

pt

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

Yeah, I wanted to try the burgers in Hong Kong, to see what they were
like, but never got around to it.




--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com

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[Brenda]

On 5/27/2015 12:01 PM, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> On Wed, 27 May 2015 06:14:27 -0700 (PDT), pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 12:23:07 AM UTC-4, William Vetter wrote:
>>> Stephen Graham wrote:
>>>> On 5/26/2015 2:20 PM, William Vetter wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Considering above history, is General Tso's Chicken to be considered
>>>>> Chinese-American food, like Chop Suey, Egg Foo Yung, Shrimp Toast, Chow
>>>>> Mein, Crab Rangoon....
>>>>
>>>> In this vein, you might be interested in John Roberts' From China to
>>>> Chinatown: Chinese Food in the West.
>>>
>>> I had not seen this one, but there are several similar books. Google
>>> shows me the author uses the name J. A. G. Roberts on its cover.
>>
>> I'd also be curious to find out how Western cuisines have been adapted in China.
>
> Yeah, I wanted to try the burgers in Hong Kong, to see what they were
> like, but never got around to it.
>
>
>
>

I have done it. The Big Mac in Hong Kong is precisely similar to the one
in the US. (I went to the McDonald's at Repulse Bay.) I have also been
to the Starbucks in the Forbidden City in Beijing. The menu and prices
are exactly the same. The chains make a point of having the food the same.

Chinese cooks are notoriously adventurous. There is a grand and utterly
addictive dish, taro duck. (You dip the pieces of duck into poi, and
deep-fry.) Chinese chefs in Hawaii found poi there, and ran with it.
They are also powerfully market-driven; what they cook is what makes
money. I went into a sushi restaurant in Danville, CA a few years ago.
We were peacefully eating tuna roll and sashimi, when I realized that
the staff were conversing at the back. They were speaking Cantonese.
When the Chinese food wasn't sufficiently profitable or fashionable,
they switched over to sushi.

Brenda

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

On Wed, 27 May 2015 22:27:15 -0400, Brenda <brenda...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On 5/27/2015 12:01 PM, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 May 2015 06:14:27 -0700 (PDT), pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 12:23:07 AM UTC-4, William Vetter wrote:
>>>> Stephen Graham wrote:
>>>>> On 5/26/2015 2:20 PM, William Vetter wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Considering above history, is General Tso's Chicken to be considered
>>>>>> Chinese-American food, like Chop Suey, Egg Foo Yung, Shrimp Toast, Chow
>>>>>> Mein, Crab Rangoon....
>>>>>
>>>>> In this vein, you might be interested in John Roberts' From China to
>>>>> Chinatown: Chinese Food in the West.
>>>>
>>>> I had not seen this one, but there are several similar books. Google
>>>> shows me the author uses the name J. A. G. Roberts on its cover.
>>>
>>> I'd also be curious to find out how Western cuisines have been adapted in China.
>>
>> Yeah, I wanted to try the burgers in Hong Kong, to see what they were
>> like, but never got around to it.
>
>I have done it. The Big Mac in Hong Kong is precisely similar to the one
>in the US. (I went to the McDonald's at Repulse Bay.) I have also been
>to the Starbucks in the Forbidden City in Beijing. The menu and prices
>are exactly the same. The chains make a point of having the food the same.

Which is why I had no interest in trying any of the chains; I wanted
to try the LOCAL burgers.

>Chinese cooks are notoriously adventurous. There is a grand and utterly
>addictive dish, taro duck. (You dip the pieces of duck into poi, and
>deep-fry.) Chinese chefs in Hawaii found poi there, and ran with it.
>They are also powerfully market-driven; what they cook is what makes
>money. I went into a sushi restaurant in Danville, CA a few years ago.
>We were peacefully eating tuna roll and sashimi, when I realized that
>the staff were conversing at the back. They were speaking Cantonese.
>When the Chinese food wasn't sufficiently profitable or fashionable,
>they switched over to sushi.

Well, sure. And the Australian expats in Hangzhou gave their bar an
American menu because they thought it would sell better.

[Brian M. Scott]

On Thu, 28 May 2015 00:49:25 -0400, Lawrence Watt-Evans
<l...@sff.net> wrote
in<news:hf7dmaha9kq7gk75f...@reader80.eternal-september.org>
in rec.arts.sf.written:

> On Wed, 27 May 2015 22:27:15 -0400, Brenda
> <brenda...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[...]

>> I have done it. The Big Mac in Hong Kong is precisely
>> similar to the one in the US. (I went to the McDonald's
>> at Repulse Bay.) I have also been to the Starbucks in
>> the Forbidden City in Beijing. The menu and prices are
>> exactly the same. The chains make a point of having the
>> food the same.

> Which is why I had no interest in trying any of the
> chains; I wanted to try the LOCAL burgers.

Potentially dangerous, vide Wimpy Bars!

On the other hand, what the Sweeney Todd restaurant in
Oxford sold as pizza back in the late 1970s was pretty
good, albeit rather different from anything that an
American would have associated with the name.

[...]

Brian
--
It was the neap tide, when the baga venture out of their
holes to root for sandtatties. The waves whispered
rhythmically over the packed sand: haggisss, haggisss,
haggisss.

[hamis...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, May 28, 2015 at 10:01:15 PM UTC+10, Brian M. Scott wrote:
> On Thu, 28 May 2015 00:49:25 -0400, Lawrence Watt-Evans
> <l...@sff.net> wrote
> in<news:hf7dmaha9kq7gk75f...@reader80.eternal-september.org>
> in rec.arts.sf.written:

> > Which is why I had no interest in trying any of the
> > chains; I wanted to try the LOCAL burgers.
>
> Potentially dangerous, vide Wimpy Bars!
>
> On the other hand, what the Sweeney Todd restaurant in
> Oxford sold as pizza back in the late 1970s was pretty
> good, albeit rather different from anything that an
> American would have associated with the name.

Expecting pies?

[Brian M. Scott]

On Thu, 28 May 2015 07:29:58 -0700 (PDT),
<hamis...@gmail.com> wrote
in<news:e5bfcb7a-30e5-4f33...@googlegroups.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written:

Wasn’t expecting anything in particular.

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

On Thu, 28 May 2015 08:01:05 -0400, "Brian M. Scott"
<b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:

>On Thu, 28 May 2015 00:49:25 -0400, Lawrence Watt-Evans
><l...@sff.net> wrote
>in<news:hf7dmaha9kq7gk75f...@reader80.eternal-september.org>
>in rec.arts.sf.written:
>
>> On Wed, 27 May 2015 22:27:15 -0400, Brenda
>> <brenda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>>> I have done it. The Big Mac in Hong Kong is precisely
>>> similar to the one in the US. (I went to the McDonald's
>>> at Repulse Bay.) I have also been to the Starbucks in
>>> the Forbidden City in Beijing. The menu and prices are
>>> exactly the same. The chains make a point of having the
>>> food the same.
>
>> Which is why I had no interest in trying any of the
>> chains; I wanted to try the LOCAL burgers.
>
>Potentially dangerous, vide Wimpy Bars!

Oh, bleah. I ate a Wimpy burger once, long ago. That was awful. And
connects to the thread about onions.

I've also eaten "burgers" that didn't deserve the name in Mexico and
France -- the French one was just strange, while the Mexican one was
inedible, and I got slightly ill from the two bites it took to
convince me of that.

But I still wanted to give the burgers in Hong Kong a go. Call me a
slow learner, if you like.

>On the other hand, what the Sweeney Todd restaurant in
>Oxford sold as pizza back in the late 1970s was pretty
>good, albeit rather different from anything that an
>American would have associated with the name.
>
>[...]

There's stuff sold as pizza in California that I wouldn't have
associated with the name, either.

[Will in New Haven]

I had a similar experience, although I wouldn't have known it if I wasn't dining with an Asian language major. She told me that everyone who worked in the Hunan Garden where we were eating was talking to each other in Korean. We did not ask them why they were running a Hunan restaurant.

There was a really great Chinese chef in New Haven named Peter Chen. He made dishes I have never seen anywhere else. He also showed up at six sometimes when his restaurant was supposed to open at five. Even when he opened on time, you could not count on eating and getting to a seven o'clock or even nine o'clock movie. If his place were still there I would still go.

--
Will in New Haven

[Larry Headlund]

Burgers are a pretty boring place to start your fusion adventures. Much
better would be to look into why corned beef and cabbage is a famous
Nanjing dish, why Shanghai people think of borscht as a Chinese soup,
why Zhejiang venison can taste like it was cooked in western Pennsylvania.

But since you asked ....

DISCLAIMER: China is a big place with a diverse population and a lot of
variation in cuisines. There is probably an exception to everything I say.

So hamburgers by locals and for locals. First up, beef is relatively
expensive in China so the patties are going to be small. Don't think of
Quarter pounders or Whoopers. Think of the original McDonald's burger.
Or White Castle.

Second, in some areas of China uncooked vegetables are unsafe to eat. So
no tomato, lettuce or raw onion. Cooked onion is more likely. Does sound
more like a White Castle slider.

Third, a lot of Chinese people don't like cheese. Instead you often see
a fried egg on top.

You would think the northern Chinese steamed bread mantou would be a
natural for the bun by I don't ever recall seeing that done.

A Chinese hamburger stand would be competing with noodle shops and such
so they wouldn't have a lot of room for experimentation.

[William Vetter]

There was a Chinese buffet restaurant about 4 blocks from my home until
2 years ago. It was very big and expensive, $35 for dinner, and charge
$2.50 for tea as a drink, with surcharges as a tip for staff. I'd go
in there at 11:30AM on Friday when the food would be new for the
weekend for $12 and suffer annoyed looks when I refused to order tea.
The dinner would be no different except for a cutting board with roast
prime rib on it as if it were an American steakhouse. Anything fried
in oil like tempura or egg rolls would be done at too low temperature
and soaked with enough absorbed oil to make me feel ill if I ate any.
There would be named dishes that would be garnished with 4 colors of
bell peppers from Holland until they were unrecognizable. There were
some items that you'd need to go to Chinatown to try, but wouldn't want
to order a whole dish of, and that I wouldn't cook myself...turnip
cake, edible jellyfish, cuttlefish salad, drunken chicken...and the
tripe that somebody mentioned. That's why I'd go there sometimes. The
hostess would be Chinese, but all the cooks, busboys, waiters and the
sushi roller were Mexican, and the Employees Must Wash Hands sign in
the Men's Room was in Spanish.

It closed, and reopened 6 months later as 110 Sushi.

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote in
news:hf7dmaha9kq7gk75f...@reader80.eternal-september.

org:

> Well, sure. And the Australian expats in Hangzhou gave their
> bar an American menu because they thought it would sell better.
>

I wonder if they get the opposite effect of Google translate
Manglish. Where the Chinese menu entries are nonsensical, but the
English entries are correct?

Nobody ever figured out what "cowboy leg beautiful pole" actually
was.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

On Thu, 28 May 2015 13:45:06 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
<taus...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote in
>news:hf7dmaha9kq7gk75f...@reader80.eternal-september.
>org:
>
>> Well, sure. And the Australian expats in Hangzhou gave their
>> bar an American menu because they thought it would sell better.
>>
>I wonder if they get the opposite effect of Google translate
>Manglish. Where the Chinese menu entries are nonsensical, but the
>English entries are correct?

Naah. It's easy to find people in Hangzhou who will correct it, and
unlike a lot of Chinese vendors, Australians actually care about
getting it right.

>Nobody ever figured out what "cowboy leg beautiful pole" actually
>was.

That's a beaut; where's it from?

[art...@yahoo.com]

On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 5:20:43 PM UTC-4, William Vetter wrote:
> Quote below comes from _The Chinese Takeout Cookbook_, by Diana Kuan,
> which describes named dishes as they have come to be served in Chinese
> Restaurants located in the US, which are familiar to white Americans,
> and may have only a tenous link to China.
>
> General Tso's: the chicken that conquered America

I've always wondered: If he was Tso chicken, how did he get to become General?

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote in

news:muvemah4dp66kogd8...@reader80.eternal-september.
org:

> On Thu, 28 May 2015 13:45:06 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying
> Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote in
>>news:hf7dmaha9kq7gk75f...@reader80.eternal-septembe
>>r. org:
>>
>>> Well, sure. And the Australian expats in Hangzhou gave their
>>> bar an American menu because they thought it would sell
>>> better.
>>>
>>I wonder if they get the opposite effect of Google translate
>>Manglish. Where the Chinese menu entries are nonsensical, but
>>the English entries are correct?
>
> Naah. It's easy to find people in Hangzhou who will correct it,
> and unlike a lot of Chinese vendors, Australians actually care
> about getting it right.
>
>
>>Nobody ever figured out what "cowboy leg beautiful pole"
>>actually was.
>
> That's a beaut; where's it from?
>

There was a log, now long gone, by a(n American) guy who was married
to a Chinese national, living in China, who included photos of menus
(which he at least occastionally bought - the menu, that is - for his
collection). There were many examples, all hiliarous, but that one
was the most memorable.

[Kevrob]

He must have live a tsarmed life.

Tseers!

Kevin R

[Gene Wirchenko]

On Thu, 28 May 2015 14:45:48 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com>
wrote:

He was a spy for Russia?

>Tseers!

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

[Kevrob]

For a Tsinese guy, he had a lot of Tsutzpah.

Kevin R

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

On Tue, 2 Jun 2015 12:39:36 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com>

wrote:

>On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 at 3:19:28 PM UTC-4, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>> On Thu, 28 May 2015 14:45:48 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, May 28, 2015 at 5:02:47 PM UTC-4, art...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >> On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 5:20:43 PM UTC-4, William Vetter wrote:
>> >> > Quote below comes from _The Chinese Takeout Cookbook_, by Diana Kuan,
>> >> > which describes named dishes as they have come to be served in Chinese
>> >> > Restaurants located in the US, which are familiar to white Americans,
>> >> > and may have only a tenous link to China.
>> >> >
>> >> > General Tso's: the chicken that conquered America
>> >>
>> >> I've always wondered: If he was Tso chicken, how did he get to become General?
>> >
>> >He must have live a tsarmed life.
>>
>> He was a spy for Russia?
>
>For a Tsinese guy, he had a lot of Tsutzpah.

He was actually a very impressive dude; without him the Taiping
Rebellion probably would have brought down the Qing dynasty and thrown
China into chaos several decades earlier than actually happened.

[William Vetter]

William Vetter wrote:
>
> Considering above history, is General Tso's Chicken to be considered
> Chinese-American food, like Chop Suey, Egg Foo Yung, Shrimp Toast, Chow Mein,
> Crab Rangoon....

Here is a similar one: does Pepper Steak, meaning beef stir-fried with
bell peppers, exist in China?

I know that Onion Steak does.

[The Starmaker]

Are there any Jews in China?

[The Starmaker]

My mistake, I meant to write..

Are there any Chinese Jews in China?

[The Starmaker]

The best chinese food is...New York style chinese food...the
rest..forgetaboutit!

[djinn]

On Thursday, May 28, 2015 at 12:49:28 PM UTC+8, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> On Wed, 27 May 2015 22:27:15 -0400, Brenda <brenda...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On 5/27/2015 12:01 PM, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> >> On Wed, 27 May 2015 06:14:27 -0700 (PDT), pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 12:23:07 AM UTC-4, William Vetter wrote:
> >>>> Stephen Graham wrote:
> >>>>> On 5/26/2015 2:20 PM, William Vetter wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Considering above history, is General Tso's Chicken to be considered
> >>>>>> Chinese-American food, like Chop Suey, Egg Foo Yung, Shrimp Toast, Chow
> >>>>>> Mein, Crab Rangoon....
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In this vein, you might be interested in John Roberts' From China to
> >>>>> Chinatown: Chinese Food in the West.
> >>>>
> >>>> I had not seen this one, but there are several similar books. Google
> >>>> shows me the author uses the name J. A. G. Roberts on its cover.
> >>>
> >>> I'd also be curious to find out how Western cuisines have been adapted in China.
> >>
> >> Yeah, I wanted to try the burgers in Hong Kong, to see what they were
> >> like, but never got around to it.
> >
> >I have done it. The Big Mac in Hong Kong is precisely similar to the one
> >in the US. (I went to the McDonald's at Repulse Bay.) I have also been
> >to the Starbucks in the Forbidden City in Beijing. The menu and prices
> >are exactly the same. The chains make a point of having the food the same.
>
> Which is why I had no interest in trying any of the chains; I wanted
> to try the LOCAL burgers.
>

You'd probably get chicken. The chinese seem to like the chicken sandwiches more than the beef. When I go in a Dicos(the Chinese hamburger chain) I seem to have to specify a beef hamburger or I'll get chicken.

I find Chinese pizza's unpalatable, with little or no cheese and corn kernels scattered around. Fortunately western style pizza's are catching on and people are learning to make them.

[djinn]

The incomprehensible ones have a poetry all their own, but the comprehensible ones may be worse. From a Uyghur restaurant in Beijing:
"Shredded Lamb Offal with Soy Sauce", "Fried Lamb Spermary", Braised Cattle Hoof with Hot Pepper Sauce", "Unique Smoked Horse Intestine".

[djinn]

Yep, it's fairly common.

[Robert Bannister]

That is not at all what I understand by "Pepper Steak" although it is
very tasty. In my book, Pepper Steak is steak with a crust of cracked
peppercorns. The best one I ever had was in Belgium.
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

On Thu, 4 Jun 2015 19:37:24 -0700 (PDT), djinn <dje...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Oh, I know enough to specify beef. Or at least say I don't want
chicken -- "Bu gai!"

--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com

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[William Vetter]

Robert Bannister wrote:
> On 4/06/2015 2:11 pm, William Vetter wrote:
>> William Vetter wrote:
>>>
>>> Considering above history, is General Tso's Chicken to be considered
>>> Chinese-American food, like Chop Suey, Egg Foo Yung, Shrimp Toast,
>>> Chow Mein, Crab Rangoon....
>>
>> Here is a similar one: does Pepper Steak, meaning beef stir-fried with
>> bell peppers, exist in China?
>
> That is not at all what I understand by "Pepper Steak" although it is very
> tasty. In my book, Pepper Steak is steak with a crust of cracked peppercorns.
> The best one I ever had was in Belgium.

That is most often called Steak au Poivre...although Julia Child called
it "Pepper Steak" in her cookbook. It certainly belongs to a separate
cuisine.

Pepper Steak in Chinese Restaurants in the US is at best thinly sliced
flank steak stir-fried with green bell peppers and onions, both sliced
coarse. In practice it is often a tough cut of meat marinated in
perhaps baking soda and MSG, then shaved thin. It appears as recipes
in places like _Chinese Takeout Cookbook_ and _Electric Wok Cookbook_,
but is absent from Pei Mei's 3 volume cookbook (a woman who had a
cooking show during the 60's in Taiwan), and anywhere else that has a
pretention of "authentic." Florence Lin, who wrote several exhaustive
cookbooks in the US during the 70's, said that Onion Steak was the
first thing taught in the Chinese cooking courses she was involved
with. This is why I don't think Pepper Steak has much to do with
China.

[Greg Goss]

William Vetter <mdha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Robert Bannister wrote:
>> On 4/06/2015 2:11 pm, William Vetter wrote:

>>> Here is a similar one: does Pepper Steak, meaning beef stir-fried with
>>> bell peppers, exist in China?
>>
>> That is not at all what I understand by "Pepper Steak" although it is very
>> tasty. In my book, Pepper Steak is steak with a crust of cracked peppercorns.
>> The best one I ever had was in Belgium.
>
>That is most often called Steak au Poivre...although Julia Child called
>it "Pepper Steak" in her cookbook. It certainly belongs to a separate
>cuisine.

Robert's version is the only thing I've ever seen as "pepper steak".
I've never seen the shredded beef in bell peppers version and wouldn't
call it "steak" at all.

Never seen "Steak au poivre" either, though I would likely just
translate it into my own language on the fly and might not even notice
the pretension.

--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.

[Brian M. Scott]

On Thu, 4 Jun 2015 19:50:32 -0700 (PDT), djinn
<dje...@gmail.com> wrote
in<news:e9a32081-11af-44c2...@googlegroups.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written:

> On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 5:35:02 AM UTC+8, Gutless
> Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:

[...]

>> There was a log, now long gone, by a(n American) guy who
>> was married to a Chinese national, living in China, who
>> included photos of menus (which he at least
>> occastionally bought - the menu, that is - for his
>> collection). There were many examples, all hiliarous,
>> but that one was the most memorable.

> The incomprehensible ones have a poetry all their own,
> but the comprehensible ones may be worse. From a Uyghur
> restaurant in Beijing: "Shredded Lamb Offal with Soy
> Sauce",

I’ve had a couple of medieval recipes featuring offal; they
weren’t bad.

> "Fried Lamb Spermary", Braised Cattle Hoof with Hot
> Pepper Sauce", "Unique Smoked Horse Intestine".

[Brian M. Scott]

On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 02:41:38 -0600, Greg Goss
<go...@gossg.org> wrote
in<news:ctd5mf...@mid.individual.net> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

> William Vetter <mdha...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>Robert Bannister wrote:

>>> On 4/06/2015 2:11 pm, William Vetter wrote:

>>>> Here is a similar one: does Pepper Steak, meaning
>>>> beef stir-fried with bell peppers, exist in China?

According to Wikipedia, it’s a Chinese-American dish
derived from a Fujian dish called qīngjiāo ròusī, which
used pork rather than beef and lighter seasonings.

>>> That is not at all what I understand by "Pepper Steak"
>>> although it is very tasty. In my book, Pepper Steak is
>>> steak with a crust of cracked peppercorns. The best
>>> one I ever had was in Belgium.

>> That is most often called Steak au Poivre...although
>> Julia Child called it "Pepper Steak" in her cookbook.
>> It certainly belongs to a separate cuisine.

> Robert's version is the only thing I've ever seen as
> "pepper steak". I've never seen the shredded beef in
> bell peppers version and wouldn't call it "steak" at
> all.

> Never seen "Steak au poivre" either, though I would
> likely just translate it into my own language on the fly
> and might not even notice the pretension.

I’m with William on this one. <Pepper steak> normally
refers to the Chinese-American dish, and the other one is
normally <steak au poivre>.

[William Vetter]

Greg Goss wrote:
> William Vetter <mdha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Robert Bannister wrote:
>>> On 4/06/2015 2:11 pm, William Vetter wrote:
>
>>>> Here is a similar one: does Pepper Steak, meaning beef stir-fried with
>>>> bell peppers, exist in China?
>>>
>>> That is not at all what I understand by "Pepper Steak" although it is very
>>> tasty. In my book, Pepper Steak is steak with a crust of cracked
>>> peppercorns. The best one I ever had was in Belgium.
>>
>> That is most often called Steak au Poivre...although Julia Child called
>> it "Pepper Steak" in her cookbook. It certainly belongs to a separate
>> cuisine.
>
> Robert's version is the only thing I've ever seen as "pepper steak".
> I've never seen the shredded beef in bell peppers version and wouldn't
> call it "steak" at all.
>

Well, that's what it's called on Chinese restaurant menus, and that's
more or less the point.

> Never seen "Steak au poivre" either, though I would likely just
> translate it into my own language on the fly and might not even notice
> the pretension.

I'm not a pretentious person either, but restaurants like to print some
French on their menus so they can charge you $3 more.

[William Vetter]

If you like these things, below is the ultimate Chinese-American
restaurant bastardization, as it seems not even to have originated in a
Chinese restaurant. Additionally, graduate students from China have
told me that cheese, especially melted cheese, disturbs, if not revolts
them. They think it's rendered lard.

_Crab Rangoon_

Crab Rangoon is widely believed to have been the brainchild of Victor
Bergeron, the creator of Trader Vic’s, in 1950s San Francisco. He
claimed these deep-fried wontons—stuffed with a filling of cream
cheese, scallions, and crab—came from an old Burmese recipe, hence the
reference to Rangoon, the old name for Burma’s capital (today the
country is officially Myanmar and its capital, Yangon). Given the
absence of cream cheese in Southeast Asian cooking, the claim is highly
unlikely, but it fits with Bergeron’s persona and penchant for
inventing exotic-seeming origins for his restaurant foods.

[William Vetter]

Brian M. Scott wrote:
>
>>>> On 4/06/2015 2:11 pm, William Vetter wrote:
>
>>>>> Here is a similar one: does Pepper Steak, meaning
>>>>> beef stir-fried with bell peppers, exist in China?
>
> According to Wikipedia, it’s a Chinese-American dish
> derived from a Fujian dish called qīngjiāo ròusī, which
> used pork rather than beef and lighter seasonings.
>

Thank you for this...but you know Pepper Steak is conceptually simple
enough that it's hard to say.

As I understand it, Conquistodores brought peppers from Mexico to
Spain. Bell peppers are a cultivated variety of the same species that
is normally hot; the difference is that it is homozygous for a
recessive Mendelian trait for no hotness. I imagine that the bell
pepper emerged in Europe, but I'm not sure. All types of peppers came
to Asia through the Philippines as a Spanish possession.

Corn came to China around 1700. I presume bell peppers were introduced
somewhat later. There were a couple other things you see in Chinese
food brought to China around that time. Snow peas are called Holland
peas in China.

[Scott Lurndal]

"Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu> writes:
>On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 02:41:38 -0600, Greg Goss

>> Never seen "Steak au poivre" either, though I would
>> likely just translate it into my own language on the fly
>> and might not even notice the pretension.
>
>I’m with William on this one. <Pepper steak> normally
>refers to the Chinese-American dish, and the other one is
>normally <steak au poivre>.
>

I'd say it is regional. I've never seen <Pepper steak> on
the menu on the west coast. Usually called beef with veg.

[William Vetter]

Scott Lurndal wrote:
> "Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu> writes:
>> On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 02:41:38 -0600, Greg Goss
>
>>> Never seen "Steak au poivre" either, though I would
>>> likely just translate it into my own language on the fly
>>> and might not even notice the pretension.
>>

>> I’m with William on this one. <Pepper steak> normally

>> refers to the Chinese-American dish, and the other one is
>> normally <steak au poivre>.
>
> I'd say it is regional. I've never seen <Pepper steak> on
> the menu on the west coast. Usually called beef with veg.

Do you have Dan Dan Noodles? I've seen it written about, but never
seen it anywhere.

[D.F. Manno]

In article <14848yuuy1hta$.16uxb36u...@40tude.net>,
"Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:

> djinn <dje...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >> There was a log, now long gone, by a(n American) guy who
> >> was married to a Chinese national, living in China, who
> >> included photos of menus (which he at least
> >> occastionally bought - the menu, that is - for his
> >> collection). There were many examples, all hiliarous,
> >> but that one was the most memorable.
>
> > The incomprehensible ones have a poetry all their own,
> > but the comprehensible ones may be worse. From a Uyghur
> > restaurant in Beijing: "Shredded Lamb Offal with Soy
> > Sauce",
>
> I’ve had a couple of medieval recipes featuring offal; they
> weren’t bad.

You mean they weren't awful?

--
D.F. Manno | dfm...@mail.com
GOP delenda est!

[Robert Bannister]

On 6/06/2015 12:03 am, Brian M. Scott wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Jun 2015 19:50:32 -0700 (PDT), djinn
> <dje...@gmail.com> wrote
> in<news:e9a32081-11af-44c2...@googlegroups.com>
> in rec.arts.sf.written:
>
>> On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 5:35:02 AM UTC+8, Gutless
>> Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>> There was a log, now long gone, by a(n American) guy who
>>> was married to a Chinese national, living in China, who
>>> included photos of menus (which he at least
>>> occastionally bought - the menu, that is - for his
>>> collection). There were many examples, all hiliarous,
>>> but that one was the most memorable.
>
>> The incomprehensible ones have a poetry all their own,
>> but the comprehensible ones may be worse. From a Uyghur
>> restaurant in Beijing: "Shredded Lamb Offal with Soy
>> Sauce",
>
> I’ve had a couple of medieval recipes featuring offal; they
> weren’t bad.

I don't need recipes to cook and enjoy liver, kidneys or heart. I give
brains a miss since the Brits invented mad cows, and I'd rather someone
else cooked tripe. I've only eaten sweetbreads once and they were nice,
but I don't think my butcher stocks them. People who don't eat offal are
missing something awfully nice.

[Robert Bannister]

The thing is, when you're stir-frying beef, the most natural thing in
the world is to add capsicum (American: bell peppers) and/or onion
and/or chilli and/or garlic and/or fresh ginger, so it doesn't really
need a special name.

[Robert Bannister]

On 6/06/2015 12:09 am, Brian M. Scott wrote:

> I’m with William on this one. <Pepper steak> normally
> refers to the Chinese-American dish, and the other one is
> normally <steak au poivre>.

Once again two peoples divided by one language.

[Robert Bannister]

On 6/06/2015 1:44 am, William Vetter wrote:
> Greg Goss wrote:
>> William Vetter <mdha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Robert Bannister wrote:
>>>> On 4/06/2015 2:11 pm, William Vetter wrote:
>>
>>>>> Here is a similar one: does Pepper Steak, meaning beef stir-fried
>>>>> with
>>>>> bell peppers, exist in China?
>>>>
>>>> That is not at all what I understand by "Pepper Steak" although it
>>>> is very tasty. In my book, Pepper Steak is steak with a crust of
>>>> cracked peppercorns. The best one I ever had was in Belgium.
>>>
>>> That is most often called Steak au Poivre...although Julia Child
>>> called it "Pepper Steak" in her cookbook. It certainly belongs to a
>>> separate cuisine.
>>
>> Robert's version is the only thing I've ever seen as "pepper steak".
>> I've never seen the shredded beef in bell peppers version and wouldn't
>> call it "steak" at all.
>>
> Well, that's what it's called on Chinese restaurant menus, and that's
> more or less the point.

Not in my country.

[Moriarty]

On Saturday, June 6, 2015 at 12:23:09 PM UTC+10, Robert Bannister wrote:
> On 6/06/2015 12:09 am, Brian M. Scott wrote:
>
> > I'm with William on this one. <Pepper steak> normally
> > refers to the Chinese-American dish, and the other one is
> > normally <steak au poivre>.
>
> Once again two peoples divided by one language.

As you know Robert, here in Australia "Pepper Steak" is a steak cooked to your liking then covered in pepper sauce with chips/mash and salad/veges on the side, served at pubs throughout the country.

-Moriarty

[djinn]

It's pretty common, in the north at least. qing jiao niurou. Tudou niurou is everywhere - potatoes with beef- even though I don't remember it from Chinese restaurants in the US. It's been interesting to me that foods that are very common in northern China - corn, bell peppers, potatoes, sweet potatoes and tomatoes, all originated in America.

[William Vetter]

If he had it in Europe, I presumed it was Steak au Poivre.

This is Pepper Steak in New Jersey:

http://www.newsunnywok.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=170

[Greg Goss]

William Vetter <mdha...@gmail.com> wrote:

>This is Pepper Steak in New Jersey:
>
>http://www.newsunnywok.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=170

I did a google search for pepper steak calgary, and got mostly links
to uh, "steak" houses. No chinese.

Three of the first ten were, sadly, talking about burgers.

[Brian M. Scott]

On Sat, 06 Jun 2015 10:17:06 +0800, Robert Bannister
<rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote
in<news:ctf3h4...@mid.individual.net> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

> On 6/06/2015 12:03 am, Brian M. Scott wrote:

>> On Thu, 4 Jun 2015 19:50:32 -0700 (PDT), djinn
>> <dje...@gmail.com> wrote
>> in<news:e9a32081-11af-44c2...@googlegroups.com>
>> in rec.arts.sf.written:

>>> On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 5:35:02 AM UTC+8, Gutless
>>> Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:

>> [...]

>>>> There was a log, now long gone, by a(n American) guy who
>>>> was married to a Chinese national, living in China, who
>>>> included photos of menus (which he at least
>>>> occastionally bought - the menu, that is - for his
>>>> collection). There were many examples, all hiliarous,
>>>> but that one was the most memorable.

>>> The incomprehensible ones have a poetry all their own,
>>> but the comprehensible ones may be worse. From a Uyghur
>>> restaurant in Beijing: "Shredded Lamb Offal with Soy
>>> Sauce",

>> I’ve had a couple of medieval recipes featuring offal; they
>> weren’t bad.

> I don't need recipes to cook and enjoy liver, kidneys or
> heart.

I take these for granted (though I don’t actually care for
kidney); I was thinking of the parts that aren’t so
commonly used in modern western cooking.

> I give brains a miss since the Brits invented mad cows,

I’ve only ever had them once, back in 1976; they were okay,
but liver has much more flavor.

> and I'd rather someone else cooked tripe. I've only
> eaten sweetbreads once and they were nice,

Likewas on both counts.

> but I don't think my butcher stocks them. People who
> don't eat offal are missing something awfully nice.

[J. Clarke]

In article <ctf3h4...@mid.individual.net>, rob...@clubtelco.com
says...

>
> On 6/06/2015 12:03 am, Brian M. Scott wrote:
> > On Thu, 4 Jun 2015 19:50:32 -0700 (PDT), djinn
> > <dje...@gmail.com> wrote
> > in<news:e9a32081-11af-44c2...@googlegroups.com>
> > in rec.arts.sf.written:
> >
> >> On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 5:35:02 AM UTC+8, Gutless
> >> Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >>> There was a log, now long gone, by a(n American) guy who
> >>> was married to a Chinese national, living in China, who
> >>> included photos of menus (which he at least
> >>> occastionally bought - the menu, that is - for his
> >>> collection). There were many examples, all hiliarous,
> >>> but that one was the most memorable.
> >
> >> The incomprehensible ones have a poetry all their own,
> >> but the comprehensible ones may be worse. From a Uyghur
> >> restaurant in Beijing: "Shredded Lamb Offal with Soy
> >> Sauce",
> >

> > I?ve had a couple of medieval recipes featuring offal; they
> > weren?t bad.

>
> I don't need recipes to cook and enjoy liver, kidneys or heart.

Are there recipes that allow one to enjoy liver, kidneys, or heart?

> I give
> brains a miss since the Brits invented mad cows, and I'd rather someone
> else cooked tripe. I've only eaten sweetbreads once and they were nice,
> but I don't think my butcher stocks them. People who don't eat offal are
> missing something awfully nice.

I think offal is like Marmite. Might be OK if you grew up on it but
there are no rewards to consuming it that make it worth the effort of
acquiring the taste.

[Quadibloc]

Oh, good heavens. I had recently started to see it advertised at various restaurants in Edmonton, but I thought it was General Tao's chicken.

John Savard

[Quadibloc]

On Saturday, June 6, 2015 at 3:49:39 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:

> I think offal is like Marmite. Might be OK if you grew up on it but
> there are no rewards to consuming it that make it worth the effort of
> acquiring the taste.

In the case of liver, at least, there's iron - but one can take dessicated
liver, or vitamins instead.

In the case of Marmite, I suppose that they'll have to follow the lead of
Ovaltine, and bring back Captain Midnight decoders or something.

John Savard

[Quadibloc]

On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 3:20:43 PM UTC-6, William Vetter wrote:
> the real-life Zuo Zongtang was never a chef and never
> even tasted his namesake chicken dish. He was, in fact, a nineteenth
> -century general known for squashing military uprisings and one of
> China's most famed historical figures.

And in Wade-Giles, that's Tso Tsung-t'ang, which explains why it's General Tso chicken - that is not a spelling error.

John Savard

[Quadibloc]

The chef was Peng Chang-Kuei (彭長貴) and the general was Tso Tsung-t'ang
(左宗棠) for any who might find the Chinese characters useful in searching, and
whose newsreaders will display them.

And I see that in Chinese, the dish is called 左宗棠鸡 or Tso Tsung-T'ang
Chi/Zuo Zongtang Ji - Zuo Zongtang's chicken instead of General Zuo's chicken.

John Savard

[Quadibloc]

On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 3:20:43 PM UTC-6, William Vetter quoted, in part:
> In 1949, to escape the impending Communist
> takeover, he fled to Taiwan where for two decades he continued his
> career as a chef. It was in Taiwan that he created a dish of fried
> spicy and tangy chicken and named it after the famed general. The
> chicken was not from a standard repertoire of classic Hunan recipes,
> but its strong flavor components had been characteristic of the
> province's cooking for centuries.

I see though that in North America, what is billed as General Tso Chicken now
uses a sweet and sour sauce - part of other Chinese cuisines, but the sweetness
is not part of Hunan cuisine.

And I did have some of that once, I had forgotten - a friend took me to a
buffet which was held as a benefit for the Nepal earthquake. But the chicken
was veggie chicken, so it is for a certain value of "General Tso Chicken".

John Savard

[Quadibloc]

On Saturday, June 6, 2015 at 8:35:04 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:

> And in Wade-Giles, that's Tso Tsung-t'ang

Oh, dear, his claim to fame is returning Uighuristan (East Turkestan, "Sinkiang
Province") to Chinese rule.

John Savard

[Quadibloc]

On Thursday, June 4, 2015 at 6:10:59 PM UTC-6, The Starmaker wrote:

> Are there any Chinese Jews in China?

I believe there at least *were*, before the Revolution... I vaguely remember
reading a book about them.

Ah, yes, Google popped this right up (since it favors Wikipedia as a legitimate
starting point, that's no surprise):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_China

John Savard

[Quadibloc]

On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 at 1:39:38 PM UTC-6, Kevrob wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 at 3:19:28 PM UTC-4, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
> > On Thu, 28 May 2015 14:45:48 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com>
> > wrote:
> > >On Thursday, May 28, 2015 at 5:02:47 PM UTC-4, art...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >> On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 5:20:43 PM UTC-4, William Vetter wrote:

> > >> > General Tso's: the chicken that conquered America

> > >> I've always wondered: If he was Tso chicken, how did he get to become General?

> > >He must have live a tsarmed life.

> > He was a spy for Russia?

> For a Tsinese guy, he had a lot of Tsutzpah.

Maybe he came from Kaifeng. But at least he outranks Colonel Sanders.

John Savard

[Greg Goss]

Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>On Saturday, June 6, 2015 at 3:49:39 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> I think offal is like Marmite. Might be OK if you grew up on it but
>> there are no rewards to consuming it that make it worth the effort of
>> acquiring the taste.
>
>In the case of liver, at least, there's iron - but one can take dessicated
>liver, or vitamins instead.

Doesn't too much iron make it harder to fight off infections? I
thought that was why they went to men's vs women's different
vitamin/mineral pills, so that the men wouldn't be getting more iron
than we need.

[William Vetter]

Quadibloc wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 3:20:43 PM UTC-6, William Vetter quoted, in part:
>> In 1949, to escape the impending Communist
>> takeover, he fled to Taiwan where for two decades he continued his
>> career as a chef. It was in Taiwan that he created a dish of fried
>> spicy and tangy chicken and named it after the famed general. The
>> chicken was not from a standard repertoire of classic Hunan recipes,
>> but its strong flavor components had been characteristic of the
>> province's cooking for centuries.
>
> I see though that in North America, what is billed as General Tso Chicken now
> uses a sweet and sour sauce - part of other Chinese cuisines, but the
> sweetness is not part of Hunan cuisine.
>

I think you're describing Sesame Chicken, which is similar, but should
have no more than a little involvement of chili hotness. At the lunch
counter level these two tend to be interconverted so that they are
little different, except for some dried chilies.

So far as I know, this is closest to what General Tso's originally was:

marinade
1 tablespoon soy sauce
1 tablespoon Chinese rice wine or dry sherry
2 large egg whites
1 pound boneless, skinless chicken thighs, cut into 1-inch cubes
1 teaspoon white sesame seeds
sauce
¼ cup Chicken Stock or water
1½ tablespoons tomato paste
1 tablespoon soy sauce
1 tablespoon white rice vinegar
1 teaspoon hoisin sauce
1 teaspoon chili sauce
1 teaspoon sesame oil
1 tablespoon sugar
1 teaspoon cornstarch
1½ cups cornstarch
½ teaspoon salt
½ teaspoon freshly ground black pepper
3 cups peanut or vegetable oil for frying, plus 1 tablespoon for
stir-frying
8 dried whole red chilies, or substitute ¼ teaspoon crushed red pepper
flakes
2 cloves garlic, minced
Scallions, green parts only, thinly sliced
special equipment
Instant-read oil thermometer
1. Marinate the chicken: In a large bowl, combine the soy sauce, rice
wine, and egg whites. Add the chicken and stir gently to coat. Let
stand at room temperature for 10 minutes.
2. In a small dry pan, toast the sesame seeds for about 1 minute, until
they become lightly brown and aromatic. Transfer to a dish and set
aside.
3. Prepare the sauce: In a small bowl, combine the chicken stock,
tomato paste, soy sauce, rice vinegar, hoisin sauce, chili sauce,
sesame oil, sugar, and cornstarch. Stir until the sugar and cornstarch
are dissolved. Set aside.
4. Toss the 1½ cups cornstarch with the salt and pepper in a large bowl
or deep plate. Coat the marinated chicken in the cornstarch mixture and
shake off any excess before frying.
5. Heat the peanut oil in a wok or heavy-bottomed pot until it
registers 350°F on an instant-read oil thermometer. Working in 2 or 3
batches, add the first batch of chicken cubes and deep-fry until
lightly golden on the outside and cooked through, 3 to 4 minutes.
Remove the chicken with a slotted spoon and drain on a plate lined with
paper towels. Repeat with the rest of the chicken. (Optional: To get
the chicken extra crispy, allow the chicken to drain and cool for 5
minutes, then put the chicken back in the wok to fry for about another
30 seconds, until golden brown.)
6. Transfer the oil to a heat-proof container. (It will take about 1
hour to fully cool, after which you can transfer it to a container with
a tight lid to dispose of it.) If you used a wok to deep-fry, you can
reuse it to stir-fry the chicken next by just wiping down the insides
with a paper towel. If you used a heavy-bottomed pot for deep-frying,
switch to a clean wok or large skillet for stir-frying.
7. Heat the wok or skillet over medium-high heat until a bead of water
sizzles and evaporates on contact. Add the remaining 1 tablespoon oil
and swirl to coat the bottom. Add the chilies and garlic and stir-fry
until just fragrant, about 20 seconds. Pour in the sauce mixture and
heat briefly to thicken.
8. Return the chicken to the wok and stir well to coat with sauce.
Transfer the chicken to a serving dish. Garnish with the toasted sesame
seeds and scallions and serve.

[Moriarty]

I've some fantastic recipes for chicken or duck liver paté.

-Moriarty

[hamis...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, June 7, 2015 at 12:33:25 AM UTC+10, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Saturday, June 6, 2015 at 3:49:39 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>
> > I think offal is like Marmite. Might be OK if you grew up on it but
> > there are no rewards to consuming it that make it worth the effort of
> > acquiring the taste.
>
> In the case of liver, at least, there's iron - but one can take dessicated
> liver, or vitamins instead.
>

and various other minerals and vitamins
including Vitamin A, B2, B3, B12,

[Joe Pfeiffer]

"J. Clarke" <j.clark...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> Are there recipes that allow one to enjoy liver, kidneys, or heart?

I'll guess it would be the same as what's required to make dove
marginally-edible: acid. Marinating in things like Italian salad
dressing, serving with things like tomato sauce. As a friend of mine
said long ago, the key to a good dove recipe is killing the taste.

You hunt dove for the challenge (no, trap shooting isn't a substitute --
spoken as somebody who tries to spend a morning every week trap
shooting). Once you've got one, though, you've taken an obligation to
eat it, so you try to find a way to make it a meal instead of a
penance.

I suppose if I raised cattle I'd feel a similar obligation to make use
of the whole animal and I'd eat liver. I don't, so I don't, and I
don't.

[Brian M. Scott]

On Sat, 6 Jun 2015 05:54:44 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<j.clark...@gmail.com> wrote
in<news:MPG.2fdc8d72...@news.eternal-september.org>
in rec.arts.sf.written:

[...]

> Are there recipes that allow one to enjoy liver, kidneys,
> or heart?

I don’t care much for kidney, but liver needs no help --
especially chicken liver. The main danger is overcooking.
However, I would be amongst the first to acknowledge that
liver seems to polarize people: strong reactions in both
directions are common. Heart is tougher and not quite as
tasty, but it’s sufficiently similar that I suspect that
most people like both or neither.

[...]

[William Vetter]

In the Eastern half of Pennsylvania, they have scrapple for breakfast.
It's real hard to find someone to tell you what it is.

[pete...@gmail.com]

On Friday, June 5, 2015 at 4:33:40 PM UTC-4, William Vetter wrote:
> Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > "Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu> writes:
> >> On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 02:41:38 -0600, Greg Goss

> >
> >>> Never seen "Steak au poivre" either, though I would
> >>> likely just translate it into my own language on the fly
> >>> and might not even notice the pretension.
> >>

> >> Iâ EURO (tm)m with William on this one. <Pepper steak> normally

> >> refers to the Chinese-American dish, and the other one is
> >> normally <steak au poivre>.
> >

> > I'd say it is regional. I've never seen <Pepper steak> on
> > the menu on the west coast. Usually called beef with veg.
>
> Do you have Dan Dan Noodles? I've seen it written about, but never
> seen it anywhere.

They have them at the actually-pretty-damn-authentic local chain I mentioned.
They're very nice.

http://laosichuan.com/

pt

[Scott Lurndal]

William Vetter <mdha...@gmail.com> writes:
>Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> "Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu> writes:
>>> On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 02:41:38 -0600, Greg Goss
>>
>>>> Never seen "Steak au poivre" either, though I would
>>>> likely just translate it into my own language on the fly
>>>> and might not even notice the pretension.
>>>

>>> I’m with William on this one. <Pepper steak> normally

>>> refers to the Chinese-American dish, and the other one is
>>> normally <steak au poivre>.
>>
>> I'd say it is regional. I've never seen <Pepper steak> on
>> the menu on the west coast. Usually called beef with veg.
>
>Do you have Dan Dan Noodles? I've seen it written about, but never
>seen it anywhere.

Never heard of them. We do have singapore-style noodles (extra
thin rice noodles with curry) and crispy noodles in addition to the
standard chow mein (lo mein on the east coast).

[Scott Lurndal]

And the first selection on the "With:" drop-down is French Fries. I
don't recall ever seeing french fries at a Chinese restaurant on the
west coast.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Sunday, June 7, 2015 at 9:45:28 PM UTC-6, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <j.clark...@gmail.com> writes:
> >
> > Are there recipes that allow one to enjoy liver, kidneys, or heart?
>
> I'll guess it would be the same as what's required to make dove
> marginally-edible: acid. Marinating in things like Italian salad
> dressing, serving with things like tomato sauce.

Certainly not. That would hide the taste of the liver.

To me, heart has a taste between liver and regular beef. It makes a
delicious pot roast, but I live by myself, and even half a beef heart
is too big for me to manage. (I don't like to have the same leftovers
on consecutive days.) Mom occasionally stuffed it, which gives you
an interesting pattern when you slice it.

A chicken heart might be the best part of making chicken stock (which
I haven't done in years), but it's just one bite.

> As a friend of mine
> said long ago, the key to a good dove recipe is killing the taste.
>
> You hunt dove for the challenge (no, trap shooting isn't a substitute --
> spoken as somebody who tries to spend a morning every week trap
> shooting). Once you've got one, though, you've taken an obligation to
> eat it, so you try to find a way to make it a meal instead of a
> penance.

This site suggests a Texas method endorsed by my Texan dove-hunting
friend: wrap the breast in bacon with a slice of jalapeño.

http://www.texasmonthly.com/story/how-dove-hunt

I agree with you about the obligation to eat what you kill. Shooting
1000 doves in a day in Argentina is just gross.

> I suppose if I raised cattle I'd feel a similar obligation to make use
> of the whole animal and I'd eat liver. I don't, so I don't, and I
> don't.

Low demand keeps the price low for people like me, but it also keeps the
demand low. I can't even find beef liver.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Greg Goss]

sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

>And the first selection on the "With:" drop-down is French Fries. I
>don't recall ever seeing french fries at a Chinese restaurant on the
>west coast.

Western/Oriental dual restaurants are common in the BC interior, and
probably in Vancouver, too. Such restaurants generally have chinese
names and are generally refered to as "chinese restaurants" by their
customers, but they have burgers and fries for the late-night crowd
that don't want pizza.

This may have changed with the rise of all-night drive-thrus at the
burger chains - when I lived in small-town BC, the only McD was three
miles out of town on the highway and the only burger joints in town
closed early in the evening.

[Scott Lurndal]

pete...@gmail.com writes:
>On Friday, June 5, 2015 at 4:33:40 PM UTC-4, William Vetter wrote:
>> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> > "Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu> writes:
>> >> On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 02:41:38 -0600, Greg Goss
>> >
>> >>> Never seen "Steak au poivre" either, though I would
>> >>> likely just translate it into my own language on the fly
>> >>> and might not even notice the pretension.

>> >>=20
>> >> I=E2 EURO (tm)m with William on this one. <Pepper steak> normally

>> >> refers to the Chinese-American dish, and the other one is
>> >> normally <steak au poivre>.
>> >
>> > I'd say it is regional. I've never seen <Pepper steak> on
>> > the menu on the west coast. Usually called beef with veg.

>>=20
>> Do you have Dan Dan Noodles? I've seen it written about, but never=20
>> seen it anywhere.
>
>They have them at the actually-pretty-damn-authentic local chain I mentione=

>d.
>They're very nice.
>
>http://laosichuan.com/

But those aren't noodles, they're noddles. :-)

[pete...@gmail.com]

On Monday, June 8, 2015 at 3:47:48 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> pete...@gmail.com writes:
> >On Friday, June 5, 2015 at 4:33:40 PM UTC-4, William Vetter wrote:
> >> Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >> > "Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu> writes:
> >> >> On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 02:41:38 -0600, Greg Goss
> >> >
> >> >>> Never seen "Steak au poivre" either, though I would
> >> >>> likely just translate it into my own language on the fly
> >> >>> and might not even notice the pretension.
> >> >>

> >> >> I'm with William on this one. <Pepper steak> normally

> >> >> refers to the Chinese-American dish, and the other one is
> >> >> normally <steak au poivre>.
> >> >
> >> > I'd say it is regional. I've never seen <Pepper steak> on
> >> > the menu on the west coast. Usually called beef with veg.
> >>

> >> Do you have Dan Dan Noodles? I've seen it written about, but never=20
> >> seen it anywhere.
> >
> >They have them at the actually-pretty-damn-authentic local chain I

> >mentioned.

> >They're very nice.
> >
> >http://laosichuan.com/
>
> But those aren't noodles, they're noddles. :-)

?? I don't see a typo.

pt

[J. Clarke]

In article <rfidx.77246$Gk5....@fx12.iad>, sc...@slp53.sl.home says...

>
> William Vetter <mdha...@gmail.com> writes:
> >Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >> "Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu> writes:
> >>> On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 02:41:38 -0600, Greg Goss
> >>
> >>>> Never seen "Steak au poivre" either, though I would
> >>>> likely just translate it into my own language on the fly
> >>>> and might not even notice the pretension.
> >>>

> >>> I�m with William on this one. <Pepper steak> normally

> >>> refers to the Chinese-American dish, and the other one is
> >>> normally <steak au poivre>.
> >>
> >> I'd say it is regional. I've never seen <Pepper steak> on
> >> the menu on the west coast. Usually called beef with veg.
> >
> >Do you have Dan Dan Noodles? I've seen it written about, but never
> >seen it anywhere.
>
> Never heard of them. We do have singapore-style noodles (extra
> thin rice noodles with curry) and crispy noodles in addition to the
> standard chow mein (lo mein on the east coast).

?? Chow mein is fried noodles, lo mein is boiled noodles. The "east
coast" has both.

[Sjouke Burry]

Google knows all .........

[William Vetter]

Chow mein is a Chinese-American dish wherein some sort of stewed
vegetables + meat is served over a bed of boiled wheat noodles that
have been deep-fried.

Lo mein is boiled wheat noodles that are stir-fried with julienned
vegetables and/or meat.

There are some kinds of noodles in China that undergo several cycles of
boiling, then deep-frying, to achieve a certain texture, but I have
never heard of it done in a typical restaurant.

[William Vetter]

It is all the scraps from the floor of a hog slaughterhouse ground into
a gray gruel then pressed into a mold.

[Robert Bannister]

On 8/06/2015 11:10 pm, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> William Vetter <mdha...@gmail.com> writes:
>> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> "Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu> writes:
>>>> On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 02:41:38 -0600, Greg Goss
>>>
>>>>> Never seen "Steak au poivre" either, though I would
>>>>> likely just translate it into my own language on the fly
>>>>> and might not even notice the pretension.
>>>>

>>>> I’m with William on this one. <Pepper steak> normally

>>>> refers to the Chinese-American dish, and the other one is
>>>> normally <steak au poivre>.
>>>
>>> I'd say it is regional. I've never seen <Pepper steak> on
>>> the menu on the west coast. Usually called beef with veg.
>>
>> Do you have Dan Dan Noodles? I've seen it written about, but never
>> seen it anywhere.
>
> Never heard of them. We do have singapore-style noodles (extra
> thin rice noodles with curry) and crispy noodles in addition to the
> standard chow mein (lo mein on the east coast).
>

For me, "Singapore noodles" are like slightly thinner Hokkien egg noodles.

--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia

[Joe Pfeiffer]

Either there is a typo, or noddles are really a thing...

[Brian M. Scott]

On Mon, 08 Jun 2015 20:52:26 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer
<pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote
in<news:1boakp3...@pfeifferfamily.net> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

> pete...@gmail.com writes:

>> On Monday, June 8, 2015 at 3:47:48 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:

[...]

>>> But those aren't noodles, they're noddles. :-)

>> ?? I don't see a typo.

> Either there is a typo, or noddles are really a thing...

Both. It’s pretty clearly a typo here (and on some other
menus that I’ve seen), but it’s also somewhat dated slang
for the head or brains, as in ‘Use your noddle’ -- which,
interestingly enough, is also heard as ‘Use your noodle’.

Brian
--
Using her breasts as a shelf was the most practical thing
Helene had done all day. -- Meljean Brook, _The Kraken
King_

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <11ixe82y369cv.1khr06qgspjb9$.d...@40tude.net>,

Brian M. Scott <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
>On Mon, 08 Jun 2015 20:52:26 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer
><pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote
>in<news:1boakp3...@pfeifferfamily.net> in
>rec.arts.sf.written:
>
>> pete...@gmail.com writes:
>
>>> On Monday, June 8, 2015 at 3:47:48 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>>>> But those aren't noodles, they're noddles. :-)
>
>>> ?? I don't see a typo.
>
>> Either there is a typo, or noddles are really a thing...
>
>Both. It’s pretty clearly a typo here (and on some other
>menus that I’ve seen), but it’s also somewhat dated slang
>for the head or brains, as in ‘Use your noddle’ -- which,
>interestingly enough, is also heard as ‘Use your noodle’.
>
>Brian

What? I've never heard it as anything but "noodle"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ly35NQfZw8
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[Brian M. Scott]

On 9 Jun 2015 03:29:13 GMT, "Ted Nolan <tednolan>"
<t...@loft.tnolan.com> wrote
in<news:ctn4s9...@mid.individual.net> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

> In article <11ixe82y369cv.1khr06qgspjb9$.d...@40tude.net>,
> Brian M. Scott <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:

>> On Mon, 08 Jun 2015 20:52:26 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer
>> <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote
>> in<news:1boakp3...@pfeifferfamily.net> in
>> rec.arts.sf.written:

[...]

>>> Either there is a typo, or noddles are really a thing...

>>Both. It's pretty clearly a typo here (and on some other
>>menus that I've seen), but it's also somewhat dated slang
>>for the head or brains, as in 'Use your noddle' -- which,
>>interestingly enough, is also heard as 'Use your noodle'.

> What? I've never heard it as anything but "noodle"

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ly35NQfZw8

And 'noodle' is the form that my folks used when we were
kids. The fact remains that the other form exists, I've
encountered it in print, and it goes back to late Middle
English. It seems to be primarily British. Here’s a 1985
example of its use by Liz Lochhead, the Scots Makar (Poet
Laureate): 'Until I used my noddle I was the Bohemienne
Comedienne Who is an artist's model'.

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

Indeed. And it's surprisingly tasty.




--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[William Vetter]

Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Jun 2015 18:04:48 -0400, William Vetter
> <mdha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Sjouke Burry wrote:
>>> On 08.06.15 9:50, William Vetter wrote:
>>>> Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>>>> "J. Clarke" <j.clark...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>> In the Eastern half of Pennsylvania, they have scrapple for breakfast.
>>>> It's real hard to find someone to tell you what it is.
>>>>
>>> Google knows all .........
>>
>> It is all the scraps from the floor of a hog slaughterhouse ground into
>> a gray gruel then pressed into a mold.
>
> Indeed. And it's surprisingly tasty.

They deep-fry the brick in diners in King of Prussia or someplace like
that...I've only bought it once in a supermarket, and fried slices in a
frying pan. I don't think it has much taste until it gets scorched
some. I met a rural kid once who told me his family gave it away to
the neighbors. I took that to mean the farmers don't want to eat much
of it at once. It has everything, including the pig's face. I
mentioned it because it's lower than sausage.

[Scott Lurndal]

The typo is on the first page of http://laosichuan.com/

scroll down to the location-specific menus; all locations
except Sharon offer noddles.

[Scott Lurndal]

William Vetter <mdha...@gmail.com> writes:
>J. Clarke wrote:
>> In article <rfidx.77246$Gk5....@fx12.iad>, sc...@slp53.sl.home says...
>>>
>>> William Vetter <mdha...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>> "Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu> writes:
>>>>>> On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 02:41:38 -0600, Greg Goss
>>>>>>> Never seen "Steak au poivre" either, though I would
>>>>>>> likely just translate it into my own language on the fly
>>>>>>> and might not even notice the pretension.
>>>>>>

>>>>>> I芒�? with William on this one. <Pepper steak> normally

>>>>>> refers to the Chinese-American dish, and the other one is
>>>>>> normally <steak au poivre>.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd say it is regional. I've never seen <Pepper steak> on
>>>>> the menu on the west coast. Usually called beef with veg.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have Dan Dan Noodles? I've seen it written about, but never
>>>> seen it anywhere.
>>>
>>> Never heard of them. We do have singapore-style noodles (extra
>>> thin rice noodles with curry) and crispy noodles in addition to the
>>> standard chow mein (lo mein on the east coast).
>>
>> ?? Chow mein is fried noodles, lo mein is boiled noodles. The "east
>> coast" has both.
>
>Chow mein is a Chinese-American dish wherein some sort of stewed
>vegetables + meat is served over a bed of boiled wheat noodles that
>have been deep-fried.
>
>Lo mein is boiled wheat noodles that are stir-fried with julienned
>vegetables and/or meat.

A very regional description of both foods. Neither match the
west coast.

Here, chow main is noodles (not deep fried, nor crisply) stir-fryed
with sauce and topped with meat + vegatables. Why you call lo main.

Here is the west coast of the USA.

[pete...@gmail.com]

Thanks, I hadn't noticed that - I always go to the full location
menus from the dropdown at the top of the page :-)

Nonetheless, their Dan-Dan No(o|d)dles are very tasty.

pt

[William December Starr]

In article <ml53fp$f5o$1...@dont-email.me>,

As long as the floors are clean, that sounds fine.

-- wds

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

On 9 Jun 2015 11:55:14 -0400, wds...@panix.com (William December

I wouldn't want to eat it every day, but I like it. My wife and kids
think I'm insane.

[William Vetter]

Did I say "slaughterhouse?"

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

As long as they were clean when the slaughter began...

[William Vetter]

Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Jun 2015 15:07:51 -0400, William Vetter
> <mdha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> William December Starr wrote:
>>> In article <ml53fp$f5o$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> William Vetter <mdha...@gmail.com> said:
>>>
>>>> Sjouke Burry wrote:
>>>>> On 08.06.15 9:50, William Vetter wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In the Eastern half of Pennsylvania, they have scrapple for
>>>>>> breakfast. It's real hard to find someone to tell you what it
>>>>>> is.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Google knows all .........
>>>>
>>>> It is all the scraps from the floor of a hog slaughterhouse ground
>>>> into a gray gruel then pressed into a mold.
>>>
>>> As long as the floors are clean, that sounds fine.
>>>
>> Did I say "slaughterhouse?"
>
> As long as they were clean when the slaughter began...

I have a question about a combat sequence I read in historical war
novel _The Fort_ (Fort Penobscot), by Bernard Cornwell. A
Massachusetts Militiaman gets beheaded by a saber, then vomits out the
stump of the neck as an involuntary reflex. It struck me that I'd
never had that described before. Is that realistic?

[Shawn Wilson]

On Tuesday, June 9, 2015 at 3:01:34 PM UTC-7, William Vetter wrote:


> I have a question about a combat sequence I read in historical war
> novel _The Fort_ (Fort Penobscot), by Bernard Cornwell. A
> Massachusetts Militiaman gets beheaded by a saber, then vomits out the
> stump of the neck as an involuntary reflex. It struck me that I'd
> never had that described before. Is that realistic?

It's *possible*. And it has probably happened. I mean, nothing about vomiting requires any higher brain functions or absent body parts.

[Cryptoengineer]

Shawn Wilson <ikono...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:c8526145-4fd9-41f7...@googlegroups.com:

The sad fact is that we have enough accounts of beheadings to know
that if it occurs, its not common.

pt

[Greg Goss]

Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 09 Jun 2015 15:07:51 -0400, William Vetter

>>>> It is all the scraps from the floor of a hog slaughterhouse ground
>>>> into a gray gruel then pressed into a mold.
>>>
>>> As long as the floors are clean, that sounds fine.
>>>
>>Did I say "slaughterhouse?"
>
>As long as they were clean when the slaughter began...

I don't know much about how the internals of a slaughterhouse works.
It seems to me that ground meats need to be cooked through because
there is possible poor control over, uh, entrail contents.

If we're worried about coliforms in our hamburger, do we trust the
floors?

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

On Tue, 09 Jun 2015 23:32:15 -0600, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:

>Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>>On Tue, 09 Jun 2015 15:07:51 -0400, William Vetter
>
>>>>> It is all the scraps from the floor of a hog slaughterhouse ground
>>>>> into a gray gruel then pressed into a mold.
>>>>
>>>> As long as the floors are clean, that sounds fine.
>>>>
>>>Did I say "slaughterhouse?"
>>
>>As long as they were clean when the slaughter began...
>
>I don't know much about how the internals of a slaughterhouse works.
>It seems to me that ground meats need to be cooked through because
>there is possible poor control over, uh, entrail contents.

I don't have first-hand experience of slaughterhouses, but two of my
sisters are somewhat conversant with the subject -- one has doctorates
in zoology and veterinary medicine, and while the other only has a
single doctorate and it's in physical chemistry, she got to spend lots
of quality time at a slaughterhouse collecting cow gut to obtain a
particular protein she needed for her research.

The latter sister says they're very careful about entrails because
that's one of the things the USDA inspectors check for.

>If we're worried about coliforms in our hamburger, do we trust the
>floors?

I have no problem eating scrapple, other than the gagging noises my
kids make if they see me do it.

[Steve Coltrin]

begin fnord

William Vetter <mdha...@gmail.com> writes:

>> On 08.06.15 9:50, William Vetter wrote:
>>>
>>> In the Eastern half of Pennsylvania, they have scrapple for breakfast.
>>> It's real hard to find someone to tell you what it is.
>

> It is all the scraps from the floor of a hog slaughterhouse ground
> into a gray gruel then pressed into a mold.

In my culture, we call that a 'hot dog'.

--
Steve Coltrin spco...@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press

[Steve Coltrin]

begin fnord
William Vetter <mdha...@gmail.com> writes:

> I have a question about a combat sequence I read in historical war
> novel _The Fort_ (Fort Penobscot), by Bernard Cornwell. A
> Massachusetts Militiaman gets beheaded by a saber, then vomits out the
> stump of the neck as an involuntary reflex. It struck me that I'd
> never had that described before. Is that realistic?

No idea, but I'm surprised I've never seen it in a horror flick.

Sabers are pretty thin, aren't they? Guess the Militiaman had vertebrae
made of peanut brittle.

[art...@yahoo.com]

On Tuesday, June 9, 2015 at 9:34:27 PM UTC-4, Cryptoengineer wrote:
> The sad fact is that we have enough accounts of beheadings to know
> that if it occurs, its not common.

In the movie "Aguire, the Wrath of God" there is a scene in which a man is slowly counting "1,2,3,..." when someone comes up behind him and beheads him. His disembodied head says "10".

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

On Wed, 10 Jun 2015 13:02:47 -0600, Steve Coltrin <spco...@omcl.org>
wrote:

>begin fnord
>William Vetter <mdha...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>> On 08.06.15 9:50, William Vetter wrote:
>>>>
>>>> In the Eastern half of Pennsylvania, they have scrapple for breakfast.
>>>> It's real hard to find someone to tell you what it is.
>>
>> It is all the scraps from the floor of a hog slaughterhouse ground
>> into a gray gruel then pressed into a mold.
>
>In my culture, we call that a 'hot dog'.

A proper hot dog isn't gray, and is served on a bun. It may include
beef or chicken, as well as pork. And it's in a tubular wrapper/skin,
not molded into something vaguely patty-like.

Also, while it's largely made from leftover bits, a hot dog is not
floor sweepings. Scrapple is LITERALLY, no exaggeration, processed
slaughterhouse floor sweepings. It was invented by Pennsylvania
farmers to keep those from going to waste. Most places they get used
in pet food or animal feed, but in Pennsylvania (and a few neighboring
states), people eat them.