Report on Top 20 books

[Anthony Nance]

The initial thread started on 8/30/17, titled Just out of curiousity (#1?)
[yes, with a typo :( ] and it referred to the top 20 list at
scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html

Here's a simple report on our responses:

29 of us responded - my thanks to everyone who responded. (I'm happy
to include new responses as time goes by and update the report at
some point.)

1) About the 29 responses (so far):

7 of the 29 responders have read the entire top 20
12 have read 19 of the top 20
2 have read 10 or fewer <--- using Moriarty's term, these two responders
are our "outliers"; a * below means one of these two did not read
that book; two ** means both of them didn't


2) About the top 20 works listed:

29 responders (all!) have read Dune, The Foundation Trilogy, and I Robot
28 read Stranger in a Strange Land*
27 read The Time Machine*, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress*, Ender's Game,
and The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
26 read 1984*, The Forever War**, Rendezvous With Rama**, 2001**
and Ringworld**
25 read Brave New World*, and Starship Troopers**
24 read Childhood's End**
23 read Fahrenheit 451**, and Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep**
22 read Neuromancer**
18 read Hyperion*

I can dig deeper or differently if people have thoughts/questions.

Since the original idea was to identify some of the works that make
a common base here, I may do this again with 21-40, and/or the fantasy
list at this site, and/or short stories, or ...

By the way, I'm posting this about a week later than I expected because
Eternal September changed/updated/upgraded servers on Sept 5 which
led to some weird problems on my end, including being unable to post
for several days.

Tony

[Stephen Graham]

On 9/13/2017 11:10 AM, Anthony Nance wrote:
> The initial thread started on 8/30/17, titled Just out of curiousity (#1?)
> [yes, with a typo :( ] and it referred to the top 20 list at
> scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>
> Here's a simple report on our responses:
>
> 29 of us responded - my thanks to everyone who responded. (I'm happy
> to include new responses as time goes by and update the report at
> some point.)

Might as well add my response:

I think I've read the entire top 20, though I have to express a smidgen
of doubt about having read Neuromancer.

Of the next twenty, I haven't read #27 Ender's Shadow, #39 Ubik, and #40
Contact.

[Default User]

On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 1:43:53 PM UTC-5, Stephen Graham wrote:

> I think I've read the entire top 20, though I have to express a smidgen
> of doubt about having read Neuromancer.

Do you remember a line about the sky being the color of a TV tuned to a dead channel? That got some play because people reading the book interpreted that differently depending on when they read it and their TV situation.


Brian

[Robert Carnegie]

Specifically: do you remember reading it in a book
as well as it coming up here? :-)

I think I said "don't know" as well??

[Bice]

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 18:10:53 -0000 (UTC), na...@math.ohio-state.edu
(Anthony Nance) wrote:

>By the way, I'm posting this about a week later than I expected because
>Eternal September changed/updated/upgraded servers on Sept 5 which
>led to some weird problems on my end, including being unable to post
>for several days.

Ah, that would explain why, when I got back from vacation last week
and checked newsgroups, the unread message count in
rec.arts.sf.written dropped from of 65,000 to around 25,000 (looks
like they dropped most messages older than 2015). I'm also getting
messages out of order - like I'll see a reply to a reply to a post
that doesn't show up for another two days. And the threading is all
weird - there will be a couple posts on one topic, then a couple on a
different topic, then back to the first, etc. Hope they get it
figured out quickly.

Anyway, I didn't respond to the original post because, while I like to
think of myself as a science fiction reader, I don't hold a candle to
most of the posters here. But I just checked the list and was
surprised to find that I've read most of the top 10 and a couple from
the next 5. None of 15-20. Here's my NOT read list:

5. George Orwell, 1984
10. William Gibson, Neuromancer
12. Robert A Heinlein, Starship Troopers (I've seen the movie and
heard the Yes song, but I guess that doesn't count)
15. Dan Simmons, Hyperion
16. Joe Haldeman, The Forever War (but I'm currently working on
reading all the Hugo winners, so I'll get there eventually)
17. Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
18. H. G. Wells, The Time Machine (again, saw a movie of it)
19. Arthur C Clarke, Childhood's End
20. Robert A Heinlein, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress

I know for sure that I started Fahrenheit 451 when my daughter brought
home a copy as assigned reading for school, but I'm not 100% sure I
finished it. I think I did.

And I'm even less sure that I read Ringworld. I'm about 50% sure that
I did, but if so it was so long ago that I don't remember anything
about it.

-- Bob

[Bice]

On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 21:47:18 GMT, eich...@comcastsucks.net (Bice)
wrote:

>Anyway, I didn't respond to the original post because, while I like to
>think of myself as a science fiction reader, I don't hold a candle to
>most of the posters here.

Oh and I'm shocked, SHOCKED I say, at the number of people who haven't
read Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep and the Hitchhikers Guide to
the Galaxy. Two of my all time favorites, and I pretty much thought
they were mandatory reading for sci-fi fans.

-- Bob

[Moriarty]

Well, I've certainly read[1] "The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy" and sequels multiple times, as it's also one of my all time favourites. However I fully acknowledge that it appeals to people with a certain sense of humour and that anyone else just Won't Get It.

But I really, really don't get PKD. I bounced off him in my teens and gave him another try about five years ago with "Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said" and found it barely comprehensible. Life's too short etc etc.

[1] And listened to the radio series, watched the TV show, and played the computer game. But not the movie, once was enough for that steaming pile of crap.

-Moriarty

[The Last Doctor]

One more late response. I've read the whole top 20 and in fact, going down
the list, I've read 92 of the hundred books listed. I even remember most of
them.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <59baf8f9.65265609@localhost>,

I've read them.

Androids: The movie was worse.

Hitchhikers: the TV series was better.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

[D B Davis]

[D B Davis]

Effing eternal September's out to get me. :(

[D B Davis]

Effing eternal September's out to get me. :(

FFS eternal September keeps stepping on me. So be it.

[D B Davis]

Just forget about my initial paranoid reaction. :0) Moriarty's post
actually had a dangling period, which prematurely ended my nntp
sesssion.

A Cluster A personality disorder [1] may be a prerequisite precursor to
get PKD. Just saying. HTH.

"A paranoid is someone who knows a little of what's going on."
- William S Burroughs

Note.

1. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/personality-disorders/symptoms-causes/dxc-20247656

Thank you,

--
Don

[Robert Bannister]

On 14/9/17 2:10 am, Anthony Nance wrote:
> The initial thread started on 8/30/17, titled Just out of curiousity (#1?)
> [yes, with a typo :( ] and it referred to the top 20 list at
> scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>

To my surprise, the only ones I have not read are:

Philip K Dick Ubik
Kim Stanley Robinson Red Mars
Peter F Hamilton The Reality Dysfunction
John Scalzi Old Man's War
Cormac McCarthy The Road
Philip K Dick The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch
Richard Morgan Altered Carbon
Arkady & Boris Strugatsky Roadside Picnic


I'm not sure about Michael Crichton's "Sphere" or Orson Scott Card's
"Xenocide".

--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

[Moriarty]

On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 10:36:15 AM UTC+10, D B Davis wrote:
> Just forget about my initial paranoid reaction. :0) Moriarty's post
> actually had a dangling period

Sounds painful!

, which prematurely ended my nntp
> sesssion.

As we were discussing PKD, I'd actually blame the government. Or a false reality.

> Moriarty <blu...@ivillage.com> wrote:

<snip>

> > But I really, really don't get PKD. I bounced off him in my teens and
> > gave him another try about five years ago with "Flow My Tears, the
> > Policeman Said" and found it barely comprehensible. Life's too short
> > etc etc.
>

> A Cluster A personality disorder [1] may be a prerequisite precursor to
> get PKD. Just saying. HTH.
>
> "A paranoid is someone who knows a little of what's going on."
> - William S Burroughs
>
> Note.
>
> 1. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/personality-disorders/symptoms-causes/dxc-20247656

Whatever is required, I ain't got it. Having said that, I now recall liking *some* of his short fiction. IIRC "Imposter" was one of the first YASIDs I ever asked in rasfw.

-Moriarty

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

And was later riffed on in _Snow Crash_ which called it out as blue.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
Women's breasts are like electric train sets. They're meant for
kids, but usually it's the fathers who wind up playing with them.

[Bice]

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 00:36:13 -0000 (UTC), D B Davis <g...@crcomp.net>
wrote:

>Moriarty <blu...@ivillage.com> wrote:
>>
>> But I really, really don't get PKD. I bounced off him in my teens and
>> gave him another try about five years ago with "Flow My Tears, the
>> Policeman Said" and found it barely comprehensible. Life's too short
>> etc etc.
>>
>

>A Cluster A personality disorder [1] may be a prerequisite precursor to
>get PKD. Just saying. HTH.

Whatever that is, I've got it. I've read a dozen PKD novels and a
bunch of short stories and loved everything...until he started writing
the autobiographical stuff about aliens beaming information into his
head. Kind of lost me there.

I even borrowed the Exegesis from the library and made it about a
third of the way through it before I gave up.

-- Bob

Oh, and I love the entire hitchhikers series, although the last couple
books I it seems like Adams was just writing them because he was being
forced to.

[Bice]

On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 22:33:47 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <59baf8f9.65265609@localhost>,
>Bice <eich...@comcastsucks.net> wrote:
>>
>>Oh and I'm shocked, SHOCKED I say, at the number of people who haven't
>>read Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep and the Hitchhikers Guide to
>>the Galaxy. Two of my all time favorites, and I pretty much thought
>>they were mandatory reading for sci-fi fans.
>
>I've read them.
>
>Androids: The movie was worse.

I'd say it the other way, that the book was better. I like the movie
too (and I'm actually kind of excited about the upcoming sequel), but
the movie and book are very different experiences.

>Hitchhikers: the TV series was better.

I've seen bits of the BBC series and...I'll take the books. But then,
I was never a Doctor Who fan either.

-- Bob

[Default User]

On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 6:00:05 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> Hitchhikers: the TV series was better.

Oh. Not for me at all. I have heard good things about the radio production, but I haven't experienced it.


Brian

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <6decf0b9-5a50-4aa3...@googlegroups.com>,

Of course the radio scripts were the original form; the books (the
original trilogy) were fixups of the radio scripts, with some extra
material added and scenes rearranged. Confusingly, it seems that
audio recordings exist of all of the following:

(1) the original radio program(me)s as broadcast
(2) the original radio scripts, rerecorded with different actors
(3) the text of the original books, recorded by some of the same
actors as the radio series
(4) the text of the original books, read as an audiobook by a single
actor

I think DNA himself was on record at some point denying the canonicity
of all of these (and all of the other media as well).

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
wol...@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)

[Jerry Brown]

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 18:48:37 +0000 (UTC), wol...@bimajority.org
(Garrett Wollman) wrote:

>In article <6decf0b9-5a50-4aa3...@googlegroups.com>,
>Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 6:00:05 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>
>>> Hitchhikers: the TV series was better.
>>
>>Oh. Not for me at all. I have heard good things about the radio
>>production, but I haven't experienced it.
>
>Of course the radio scripts were the original form; the books (the
>original trilogy) were fixups of the radio scripts, with some extra
>material added

and all the stuff with the super-evolving Hagummenons (written by John
Lloyd when Adams had writer's block) removed, and replaced with
Disaster Area.

> and scenes rearranged. Confusingly, it seems that
>audio recordings exist of all of the following:
>
>(1) the original radio program(me)s as broadcast
>(2) the original radio scripts, rerecorded with different actors
>(3) the text of the original books, recorded by some of the same
>actors as the radio series
>(4) the text of the original books, read as an audiobook by a single
>actor
>
>I think DNA himself was on record at some point denying the canonicity
>of all of these (and all of the other media as well).
>
>-GAWollman

--

Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)

[Greg Goss]

wol...@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) wrote:

>In article <6decf0b9-5a50-4aa3...@googlegroups.com>,
>Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 6:00:05 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>
>>> Hitchhikers: the TV series was better.
>>
>>Oh. Not for me at all. I have heard good things about the radio
>>production, but I haven't experienced it.
>
>Of course the radio scripts were the original form; the books (the
>original trilogy) were fixups of the radio scripts, with some extra
>material added and scenes rearranged. Confusingly, it seems that
>audio recordings exist of all of the following:
>
>(1) the original radio program(me)s as broadcast
>(2) the original radio scripts, rerecorded with different actors
>(3) the text of the original books, recorded by some of the same
>actors as the radio series
>(4) the text of the original books, read as an audiobook by a single
>actor
>
>I think DNA himself was on record at some point denying the canonicity
>of all of these (and all of the other media as well).

I own the LP of the re-reading of the MOVIE scripts by all of the
original actors. I'm fairly sure that none of the above match.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.

[Peter Trei]

> I've seen bits of the BBC series and...I'll take the books. [...]

The original format of HHGttG was a radio drama, followed by books, followed by a TV series, followed by more books, followed by more radio and a movie. There's a stage production mixed in there some where to, along with a computer game.

Pt

[Robert Carnegie]

Are you kidding? I really don't know.

And, the "original" actors from which iteration?
Peter Jones as "The Book"? DNA as "Agrajag"?

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

On 9/16/17 1:18 PM, Peter Trei wrote:
> On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 10:36:44 PM UTC-4, Bice wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 22:33:47 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>> Heydt) wrote:
>>
>>> In article <59baf8f9.65265609@localhost>,
>>> Bice <eich...@comcastsucks.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Oh and I'm shocked, SHOCKED I say, at the number of people who haven't
>>>> read Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep and the Hitchhikers Guide to
>>>> the Galaxy. Two of my all time favorites, and I pretty much thought
>>>> they were mandatory reading for sci-fi fans.

I've read them both, neither of them particularly grabs me in either
incarnation (written or film) and HHGttG thoroughly mines out its vein
of humor so its sequels are even less interesting.


--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.dreamwidth.org

[Greg Goss]

Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, 16 September 2017 02:05:06 UTC+1, Greg Goss wrote:
>> wol...@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) wrote:
>>
>> >In article <6decf0b9-5a50-4aa3...@googlegroups.com>,
>> >Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 6:00:05 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Hitchhikers: the TV series was better.
>> >>
>> >>Oh. Not for me at all. I have heard good things about the radio
>> >>production, but I haven't experienced it.
>> >
>> >Of course the radio scripts were the original form; the books (the
>> >original trilogy) were fixups of the radio scripts, with some extra
>> >material added and scenes rearranged. Confusingly, it seems that
>> >audio recordings exist of all of the following:
>> >
>> >(1) the original radio program(me)s as broadcast
>> >(2) the original radio scripts, rerecorded with different actors
>> >(3) the text of the original books, recorded by some of the same
>> >actors as the radio series
>> >(4) the text of the original books, read as an audiobook by a single
>> >actor
>> >
>> >I think DNA himself was on record at some point denying the canonicity
>> >of all of these (and all of the other media as well).
>>
>> I own the LP of the re-reading of the MOVIE scripts by all of the
>> original actors. I'm fairly sure that none of the above match.

>Are you kidding? I really don't know.
>
>And, the "original" actors from which iteration?
>Peter Jones as "The Book"? DNA as "Agrajag"?

I met the TV series first. I'm sure that the LP was based on the TV
shows.

[David DeLaney]

On 2017-09-16, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
> wol...@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) wrote:

>>Of course the radio scripts were the original form; the books (the
>>original trilogy) were fixups of the radio scripts, with some extra
>>material added and scenes rearranged. Confusingly, it seems that
>>audio recordings exist of all of the following:
>>
>>(1) the original radio program(me)s as broadcast
>>(2) the original radio scripts, rerecorded with different actors
>>(3) the text of the original books, recorded by some of the same
>>actors as the radio series
>>(4) the text of the original books, read as an audiobook by a single
>>actor
>>
>>I think DNA himself was on record at some point denying the canonicity
>>of all of these (and all of the other media as well).
>
> I own the LP of the re-reading of the MOVIE scripts by all of the
> original actors. I'm fairly sure that none of the above match.

Shadows from a Platonic chaos. Er, I mean gas.

Dave, we can probably deduce a minimum number of required dimensions, at least,
but no guarantee of what might be next to it in plot-space
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[Jerry Brown]

On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 10:18:35 -0700 (PDT), Peter Trei
<pete...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 10:36:44 PM UTC-4, Bice wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 22:33:47 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>> Heydt) wrote:
>>
>> >In article <59baf8f9.65265609@localhost>,
>> >Bice <eich...@comcastsucks.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>Oh and I'm shocked, SHOCKED I say, at the number of people who haven't
>> >>read Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep and the Hitchhikers Guide to
>> >>the Galaxy. Two of my all time favorites, and I pretty much thought
>> >>they were mandatory reading for sci-fi fans.
>> >
>> >I've read them.
>> >
>> >Androids: The movie was worse.
>>
>> I'd say it the other way, that the book was better. I like the movie
>> too (and I'm actually kind of excited about the upcoming sequel), but
>> the movie and book are very different experiences.
>>
>>
>> >Hitchhikers: the TV series was better.
>>
>> I've seen bits of the BBC series and...I'll take the books. [...]
>
>The original format of HHGttG was a radio drama, followed by books,

followed by LP rerecording of the first four episodes with (IIRC) all
of the original cast and new incidental music (rather then samples
from DNA's record collection - I think they even used a cover of
Journey of the Sorceror).

>followed by a TV series, followed by more books, followed by more radio and a movie. There's a stage production mixed in there some where to, along with a computer game.

The two stage versions (Institute of Contemporary Arts and Rainbow
Theatre) came between the radio and TV versions. The first was
reportedly good; I saw the second.

>Pt

[Mark Bestley]

and the radio series is better than both.


--
Mark

[Greg Goss]

David DeLaney <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>On 2017-09-16, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>> wol...@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) wrote:
>>>Of course the radio scripts were the original form; the books (the
>>>original trilogy) were fixups of the radio scripts, with some extra
>>>material added and scenes rearranged. Confusingly, it seems that
>>>audio recordings exist of all of the following:
>>>
>>>(1) the original radio program(me)s as broadcast
>>>(2) the original radio scripts, rerecorded with different actors
>>>(3) the text of the original books, recorded by some of the same
>>>actors as the radio series
>>>(4) the text of the original books, read as an audiobook by a single
>>>actor
>>>
>>>I think DNA himself was on record at some point denying the canonicity
>>>of all of these (and all of the other media as well).
>>
>> I own the LP of the re-reading of the MOVIE scripts by all of the
>> original actors. I'm fairly sure that none of the above match.
>
>Shadows from a Platonic chaos. Er, I mean gas.
>
>Dave, we can probably deduce a minimum number of required dimensions, at least,
> but no guarantee of what might be next to it in plot-space

I meant to say TV, not movie. Someone else pointed out that the LP
was based on the first four radio episodes. If so, they hadn't
diverged much from the TV show.

[Jerry Brown]

The divergence begins in 5&6 when the gang steal the black ship
belonging to the admiral of the Hagummemon space fleet from the car
park in the Restaurant at the End of the Universe. Adams had writer's
block, so this part was partially written by John Lloyd. I believe
this made it into the stage play, but I can't remember for sure. All
subsequent versions replaced this with the Disaster Area concert. Both
versions return to the common thread with Ford and Arthur arriving on
the Golgafrincham B ark.