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Plague Doctor, a treatment for Willis' _ Doomsday Book_
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Don Kuenz
Aug 19, 2016, 10:05:26 PM8/19/16
to
Any Hollywood treatment of Willis' _ Doomsday Book_ ought to use plague
doctor's costumes. [1][2] The costumes also work for Halloween. :0)
Note:
1. https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&q=plague+doctor
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_doctor
--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
chronoloid. Concept, real or imaginary, having the appearance but not
the reality of Time; analogous to the horizontal promotion.
Dorothy J Heydt
Aug 20, 2016, 1:15:12 AM8/20/16
to
In article <2016...@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <g...@crcomp.net> wrote:
>
>Any Hollywood treatment of Willis' _ Doomsday Book_ ought to use plague
>doctor's costumes. [1][2] The costumes also work for Halloween. :0)
Except that in the little village where the 14th-century story
>
>Any Hollywood treatment of Willis' _ Doomsday Book_ ought to use plague
>doctor's costumes. [1][2] The costumes also work for Halloween. :0)
takes place, they didn't *have* a plague doctor. They had to do
it all themselves.
And in the 21st-century story they would have had biohazard suits
and masks like at present, only more so.
>Note:
>
>1. https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&q=plague+doctor
>2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_doctor
aucience. The standard householder visited by little kids in
costume wouldn't recognize the design. (My daughter would, but
she wsa brought up in the SCA and is apprenticed to a grand
master costumer.)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Don Kuenz
Aug 20, 2016, 11:50:15 AM8/20/16
to
a bit of a lark.
Let's say that someone actually options _DB_. Next comes its Hollywood
treatment. Movies can use "poetic license" to take liberties with a
story.
For the present case, there's at least a couple of ways to sketch in a
plague doctor for the village of Oxfordshire, England. ;0) Let's first
revisit part of the story to set the stage.
*spoiler space*
Kivrin Engles is a time traveler about to be sent back to 14th century
Oxfordshire. Doctor Mary Ahrens is a colleague who attends to Kivrin's
medical needs before the trip.
"I wanted to cauterize her nose for her," Mary said. "I told
her the smells of the fourteenth century could be completely
incapacitating, that we're simply not used to excrement and bad
meat and decomposition in this day and age. I told her nausea
would interfere significantly with her ability to function."
That, in a nutshell, is the reason for the historic plague doctor garb.
Now it's time to take some liberties with _DB_. :0)
Why not take send Kivrin back as a plague doctor? No, that's no good.
Because Kivrin's supposed to go back *before* the plague arrives. At the
moment Kivrin's departure future Oxford lacks the prescience to dress
Kivrin in a plague doctor's costume.
No worries. Oxfordshire, England can still have its own plague doctors
in place when Kivrin arrives at the wrong time. The hypothetical movie
needs multiple plague doctors in order to lend a more sinister
appearance to its visuals. :0)
--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
colloid. Formerly regarded as a special type of matter; now considered
to be matter in, or apparently in, a particular state of subdivision,
and subject to Brownian movement.
Don Bruder
Aug 20, 2016, 12:00:36 PM8/20/16
to
In article <oC6zs...@kithrup.com>,
King's _The Stand_ - in particular, the one seen here
<http://cdn.playbuzz.com/cdn/5d3d8db7-2a04-4a05-849a-798d2fc5dd61/260313e
a-8759-420d-8850-685c721c3071.jpg>
Never heard of "plague doctors" before, but now that I've seen this
thread and chased off to the Wiki entry, that illustration makes a
*WHOLE LOT* more sense... Not identical, obviously, but the general
"flavor" is way too plain not to recognize it.
--
Brought to you by the letter K and the number .357
Security provided by Horace S. & Dan W.
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> In article <2016...@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <g...@crcomp.net> wrote:
> >
> >Any Hollywood treatment of Willis' _ Doomsday Book_ ought to use plague
> >doctor's costumes. [1][2] The costumes also work for Halloween. :0)
>
> Except that in the little village where the 14th-century story
> takes place, they didn't *have* a plague doctor. They had to do
> it all themselves.
>
> And in the 21st-century story they would have had biohazard suits
> and masks like at present, only more so.
>
> >Note:
> >
> >1. https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&q=plague+doctor
> >2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_doctor
>
> But yes, they'd make great Halloween costumes, depending on your
> aucience. The standard householder visited by little kids in
> costume wouldn't recognize the design.
I've always wondered about the illustration on some editions of Stephen
> In article <2016...@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <g...@crcomp.net> wrote:
> >
> >Any Hollywood treatment of Willis' _ Doomsday Book_ ought to use plague
> >doctor's costumes. [1][2] The costumes also work for Halloween. :0)
>
> Except that in the little village where the 14th-century story
> takes place, they didn't *have* a plague doctor. They had to do
> it all themselves.
>
> And in the 21st-century story they would have had biohazard suits
> and masks like at present, only more so.
>
> >Note:
> >
> >1. https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&q=plague+doctor
> >2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_doctor
>
> But yes, they'd make great Halloween costumes, depending on your
> aucience. The standard householder visited by little kids in
> costume wouldn't recognize the design.
King's _The Stand_ - in particular, the one seen here
<http://cdn.playbuzz.com/cdn/5d3d8db7-2a04-4a05-849a-798d2fc5dd61/260313e
a-8759-420d-8850-685c721c3071.jpg>
Never heard of "plague doctors" before, but now that I've seen this
thread and chased off to the Wiki entry, that illustration makes a
*WHOLE LOT* more sense... Not identical, obviously, but the general
"flavor" is way too plain not to recognize it.
--
Brought to you by the letter K and the number .357
Security provided by Horace S. & Dan W.
Don Kuenz
Aug 20, 2016, 1:08:47 PM8/20/16
to
makes a more sense. Especially this picture [2] of two guys dressed up
for Cosplay, Comikaze Expo 2011. (Although Cosplay means absolutely
nothing to me, Dorothy's daughter probably groks it.)
Thank you for the link to the illustration that appears in _The Stand_.
For some reason it looks Spanish to me.
The guy dressed in white on the left in your illustration reminds me of
an illustration of St Michael the Archangel poised with sword in hand
over Satan. [3] A playing card sized duplicate of Michael the Archangel
is taped to a server rack that's about a foot away from my left shoulder
at the moment. It's the spot where a server named michael2 is racked.
Note.
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spy_vs._Spy
2. http://preview.tinyurl.com/hmqzrgd
3. http://preview.tinyurl.com/h3rmbxr
--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
continuum. Perfect connected aggregate of n dimensions when each element
corresponds to a set of simultaneous values of n independent real
variables x1 . . . xn; analogous to a piece of string or the debates
of the United States Senate.
Cryptoengineer
Aug 20, 2016, 1:34:58 PM8/20/16
to
But while I was already familiar with both Spy Vs Spy,
and the 'Plague Doctor' image, The beast on the cover of
the stand has always seemed (to me, at least) to be
referencing the demons from the Hell side of Bosch's
Garden of Earthly Delights, and similar paintings.
pt
Don Bruder
Aug 20, 2016, 2:39:06 PM8/20/16
to
In article <XnsA66A8A3293...@216.166.97.131>,
Well, for me, the "plague", and now that I've seen it, the "plague
doctor" link is too blatant to overlook, considering the subject matter
in The Stand. Going deeper than the "plague" concept, King does
everything but come right out and say that Flagg (who is, of course, the
primary bad guy of the book) is indeed a demon. To be fair, at least one
of the "good guys" *DOES* actually come right out and say it in so many
words, despite not having any concrete evidence to make the claim at the
time - and we readers are left to draw our own conclusions on whether he
*REALLY* is a demon, or just a really, REALLY potent bad guy.
Which reminds me - Just replayed "Cujo" as an audiobook yesterday, and
noticed something - Anybody besides me think that Steve Kemp (Donna's
boy-toy for a while) is the same guy that "Stuttering Bill" (from "IT")
went to creative writing class with? The guy isn't actually named in
"IT", but Bill's classmate also writes a surrealistic play where the
characters only speak one word each. (for a total of 9 words - words not
specified in "Cujo", but in "IT", we're told point-blank that they make
up the sentence "War is the tool of the capitalist death merchants", if
I'm recalling correctly.)
Love finding those little links between King's books - It's that "little
extra touch that means so much", you might say :)
doctor" link is too blatant to overlook, considering the subject matter
in The Stand. Going deeper than the "plague" concept, King does
everything but come right out and say that Flagg (who is, of course, the
primary bad guy of the book) is indeed a demon. To be fair, at least one
of the "good guys" *DOES* actually come right out and say it in so many
words, despite not having any concrete evidence to make the claim at the
time - and we readers are left to draw our own conclusions on whether he
*REALLY* is a demon, or just a really, REALLY potent bad guy.
Which reminds me - Just replayed "Cujo" as an audiobook yesterday, and
noticed something - Anybody besides me think that Steve Kemp (Donna's
boy-toy for a while) is the same guy that "Stuttering Bill" (from "IT")
went to creative writing class with? The guy isn't actually named in
"IT", but Bill's classmate also writes a surrealistic play where the
characters only speak one word each. (for a total of 9 words - words not
specified in "Cujo", but in "IT", we're told point-blank that they make
up the sentence "War is the tool of the capitalist death merchants", if
I'm recalling correctly.)
Love finding those little links between King's books - It's that "little
extra touch that means so much", you might say :)
Jerry Brown
Aug 20, 2016, 3:26:06 PM8/20/16
to
On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 09:00:43 -0700, Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net>
wrote:
I noticed the costume in this Subnormality page a year or so ago
<http://www.viruscomix.com/page557.html>, and spent a few days trying
to track down what it was supposed to be, before giving up.
Fortunately the recent season of the 12 Monkeys TV series came to my
rescue when the villain appeared wearing one. This spurred another
week of searching until the next episode when the female lead
identified it as part of her description of said villain ("The
Witness").
--
Jerry Brown
A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
wrote:
<http://www.viruscomix.com/page557.html>, and spent a few days trying
to track down what it was supposed to be, before giving up.
Fortunately the recent season of the 12 Monkeys TV series came to my
rescue when the villain appeared wearing one. This spurred another
week of searching until the next episode when the female lead
identified it as part of her description of said villain ("The
Witness").
--
Jerry Brown
A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
Dorothy J Heydt
Aug 20, 2016, 3:30:03 PM8/20/16
to
II, there's a plague doctor in residence, though plague has never
gotten near the castle, even in the days when it had commerce
with the outside world. Vol. II explains his story: he was a
plague doctor in Venice, but was unable to save most of his
patients, including his fiance'e; it has driven him around the
bend.
Very good work, mixing a little history with a whole lot of fairy
tales, ancient and modern (look out for the little burglars in
Bremen). Vol. III has been hinted at for years; I hope it
happens in my lifetime.
Dorothy J Heydt
Aug 20, 2016, 3:30:03 PM8/20/16
to
In article <2016...@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <g...@crcomp.net> wrote:
>
>Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> wrote:
>> In article <oC6zs...@kithrup.com>,
>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>
>>> In article <2016...@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <g...@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >Any Hollywood treatment of Willis' _ Doomsday Book_ ought to use plague
>>> >doctor's costumes. [1][2] The costumes also work for Halloween. :0)
>>>
>>> Except that in the little village where the 14th-century story
>>> takes place, they didn't *have* a plague doctor. They had to do
>>> it all themselves.
>>>
>>> And in the 21st-century story they would have had biohazard suits
>>> and masks like at present, only more so.
>>>
>>> >Note:
>>> >
>>> >1. https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&q=plague+doctor
>>> >2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_doctor
>>>
>>> But yes, they'd make great Halloween costumes, depending on your
>>> aUcience. The standard householder visited by little kids in
>
>Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> wrote:
>> In article <oC6zs...@kithrup.com>,
>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>
>>> In article <2016...@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <g...@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >Any Hollywood treatment of Willis' _ Doomsday Book_ ought to use plague
>>> >doctor's costumes. [1][2] The costumes also work for Halloween. :0)
>>>
>>> Except that in the little village where the 14th-century story
>>> takes place, they didn't *have* a plague doctor. They had to do
>>> it all themselves.
>>>
>>> And in the 21st-century story they would have had biohazard suits
>>> and masks like at present, only more so.
>>>
>>> >Note:
>>> >
>>> >1. https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&q=plague+doctor
>>> >2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_doctor
>>>
>>> But yes, they'd make great Halloween costumes, depending on your
>>> costume wouldn't recognize the design.
>>
>> I've always wondered about the illustration on some editions of Stephen
>> King's _The Stand_ - in particular, the one seen here
>> <http://cdn.playbuzz.com/cdn/5d3d8db7-2a04-4a05-849a-798d2fc5dd61/260313e
>> a-8759-420d-8850-685c721c3071.jpg>
>>
>> Never heard of "plague doctors" before, but now that I've seen this
>> thread and chased off to the Wiki entry, that illustration makes a
>> *WHOLE LOT* more sense... Not identical, obviously, but the general
>> "flavor" is way too plain not to recognize it.
>
>Now that you mention it, _Mad Magazine_'s "Spy Versus Spy" [1] also
>makes a more sense. Especially this picture [2] of two guys dressed up
>for Cosplay, Comikaze Expo 2011. (Although Cosplay means absolutely
>nothing to me, Dorothy's daughter probably groks it.)
I've heard about it. Meg doesn't do it much, except for
>>
>> I've always wondered about the illustration on some editions of Stephen
>> King's _The Stand_ - in particular, the one seen here
>> <http://cdn.playbuzz.com/cdn/5d3d8db7-2a04-4a05-849a-798d2fc5dd61/260313e
>> a-8759-420d-8850-685c721c3071.jpg>
>>
>> Never heard of "plague doctors" before, but now that I've seen this
>> thread and chased off to the Wiki entry, that illustration makes a
>> *WHOLE LOT* more sense... Not identical, obviously, but the general
>> "flavor" is way too plain not to recognize it.
>
>Now that you mention it, _Mad Magazine_'s "Spy Versus Spy" [1] also
>makes a more sense. Especially this picture [2] of two guys dressed up
>for Cosplay, Comikaze Expo 2011. (Although Cosplay means absolutely
>nothing to me, Dorothy's daughter probably groks it.)
Halloween costumes for her eight-year-old son, who has dressed as
Beetlejuice, Captain Jack Sparrow, Indiana Jones, ...
>
>Thank you for the link to the illustration that appears in _The Stand_.
>For some reason it looks Spanish to me.
Which illustration was this? The first link led to a whole pageful of
>Thank you for the link to the illustration that appears in _The Stand_.
>For some reason it looks Spanish to me.
images, the second to Wikipedia with one named image.
>
>The guy dressed in white on the left in your illustration reminds me of
>an illustration of St Michael the Archangel poised with sword in hand
>over Satan. [3] A playing card sized duplicate of Michael the Archangel
>is taped to a server rack that's about a foot away from my left shoulder
>at the moment. It's the spot where a server named michael2 is racked.
>
>Note.
>
>1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spy_vs._Spy
>2. http://preview.tinyurl.com/hmqzrgd
This link took me to tinyurl's main page, with the notation that it had
>The guy dressed in white on the left in your illustration reminds me of
>an illustration of St Michael the Archangel poised with sword in hand
>over Satan. [3] A playing card sized duplicate of Michael the Archangel
>is taped to a server rack that's about a foot away from my left shoulder
>at the moment. It's the spot where a server named michael2 is racked.
>
>Note.
>
>1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spy_vs._Spy
>2. http://preview.tinyurl.com/hmqzrgd
been disabled.
/shrug
Don Kuenz
Aug 20, 2016, 4:23:44 PM8/20/16
to
>>The guy dressed in white on the left in your illustration reminds me of
>>an illustration of St Michael the Archangel poised with sword in hand
>>over Satan. [3] A playing card sized duplicate of Michael the Archangel
>>is taped to a server rack that's about a foot away from my left shoulder
>>at the moment. It's the spot where a server named michael2 is racked.
>>
>>Note.
>>
>>1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spy_vs._Spy
>>2. http://preview.tinyurl.com/hmqzrgd
>
> This link took me to tinyurl's main page, with the notation that it had
> been disabled.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/99/Comikaze_Expo_2011_-_Spy_vs_Spy_(6325381362).jpg/220px-Comikaze_Expo_2011_-_Spy_vs_
Spy_(6325381362).jpg
That old plague doc now makes an appearance everywhere my eyes look.
The quote in my sig comes from _The Space Child's Mother Goose_. Guess
what's on the cover and just about every page?
http://www.groundzerobooksltd.com/pictures/36635.jpg?v=1219849615
All those pointy beaks on the cover can mean only one thing. It's plague
docs all the way through.
--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
crystalloid. (cf. colloid) Crystalloids are separated from colloids by
dialysis, or filtering through a membrane, and usually crystallize under
suitable conditions.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
Aug 20, 2016, 4:28:21 PM8/20/16
to
https://www.gofundme.com/lindamedley
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Lawrence Watt-Evans
Aug 20, 2016, 4:30:50 PM8/20/16
to
On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 11:39:13 -0700, Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net>
wrote:
>Which reminds me - Just replayed "Cujo" as an audiobook yesterday, and
>noticed something - Anybody besides me think that Steve Kemp (Donna's
>boy-toy for a while) is the same guy that "Stuttering Bill" (from "IT")
>went to creative writing class with? The guy isn't actually named in
>"IT", but Bill's classmate also writes a surrealistic play where the
>characters only speak one word each. (for a total of 9 words - words not
>specified in "Cujo", but in "IT", we're told point-blank that they make
>up the sentence "War is the tool of the capitalist death merchants", if
>I'm recalling correctly.)
I read _Cujo_ long ago, but I'd forgotten that Steve Kemp. Which
surprises me, because I know a real person named Steve Kemp. Friend
of mine in college, now living on disability in North Carolina.
wrote:
>Which reminds me - Just replayed "Cujo" as an audiobook yesterday, and
>noticed something - Anybody besides me think that Steve Kemp (Donna's
>boy-toy for a while) is the same guy that "Stuttering Bill" (from "IT")
>went to creative writing class with? The guy isn't actually named in
>"IT", but Bill's classmate also writes a surrealistic play where the
>characters only speak one word each. (for a total of 9 words - words not
>specified in "Cujo", but in "IT", we're told point-blank that they make
>up the sentence "War is the tool of the capitalist death merchants", if
>I'm recalling correctly.)
surprises me, because I know a real person named Steve Kemp. Friend
of mine in college, now living on disability in North Carolina.
Dorothy J Heydt
Aug 20, 2016, 7:30:03 PM8/20/16
to
In article <s8fhrb9q540o1qhb2...@reader80.eternal-september.org>,
Etsy or Facebook or Twitter or anything else much, and since she
didn't include anything like a P.O. Box, I'm unsure about how to.
Any ideas?
Which don't involve joining any more social media?
Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 19:16:14 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>Heydt) wrote:
>
>>Note that in the graphic novels _Castle Waiting_, volumes I and
>>II, there's a plague doctor in residence, though plague has never
>>gotten near the castle, even in the days when it had commerce
>>with the outside world. Vol. II explains his story: he was a
>>plague doctor in Venice, but was unable to save most of his
>>patients, including his fiance'e; it has driven him around the
>>bend.
>>
>>Very good work, mixing a little history with a whole lot of fairy
>>tales, ancient and modern (look out for the little burglars in
>>Bremen). Vol. III has been hinted at for years; I hope it
>>happens in my lifetime.
>
>She's trying to raise money for it:
>
>https://www.gofundme.com/lindamedley
>
Oh, gosh. I've bookmarked it, but since I'm not on Patreon or
>On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 19:16:14 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>Heydt) wrote:
>
>>Note that in the graphic novels _Castle Waiting_, volumes I and
>>II, there's a plague doctor in residence, though plague has never
>>gotten near the castle, even in the days when it had commerce
>>with the outside world. Vol. II explains his story: he was a
>>plague doctor in Venice, but was unable to save most of his
>>patients, including his fiance'e; it has driven him around the
>>bend.
>>
>>Very good work, mixing a little history with a whole lot of fairy
>>tales, ancient and modern (look out for the little burglars in
>>Bremen). Vol. III has been hinted at for years; I hope it
>>happens in my lifetime.
>
>She's trying to raise money for it:
>
>https://www.gofundme.com/lindamedley
>
Etsy or Facebook or Twitter or anything else much, and since she
didn't include anything like a P.O. Box, I'm unsure about how to.
Any ideas?
Which don't involve joining any more social media?
Dorothy J Heydt
Aug 20, 2016, 7:30:03 PM8/20/16
to
Snipping madly, hoping I don't mess up the attributions.
In article <2016...@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <g...@crcomp.net> wrote:
>
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> In article <2016...@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <g...@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>>
>
>http://cdn.playbuzz.com/cdn/5d3d8db7-2a04-4a05-849a-798d2fc5dd61/260313ea-8759-420d-8850-685c721c3071.jpg
>
>>>The guy dressed in white on the left in your illustration reminds me of
>>>an illustration of St Michael the Archangel poised with sword in hand
>>>over Satan. [3] A playing card sized duplicate of Michael the Archangel
>>>is taped to a server rack that's about a foot away from my left shoulder
>>>at the moment. It's the spot where a server named michael2 is racked.
>>>
Hmmm ... if he were St. Michael he'd have a halo, and probably
also wings, and he'd be fighting a dragon, not a biped with a
beak. The images are important to identify saints and thing in
artwork from a period when practically no one could read.
As for the beaked biped, he's one of your standard medieval
monsters. Hieronymus Bosch specialized in them, but Brueghel and
others of the period had lots of them.
Norman Parry drew people.
In article <2016...@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <g...@crcomp.net> wrote:
>
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> In article <2016...@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <g...@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>>
>
>http://cdn.playbuzz.com/cdn/5d3d8db7-2a04-4a05-849a-798d2fc5dd61/260313ea-8759-420d-8850-685c721c3071.jpg
>
>>>The guy dressed in white on the left in your illustration reminds me of
>>>an illustration of St Michael the Archangel poised with sword in hand
>>>over Satan. [3] A playing card sized duplicate of Michael the Archangel
>>>is taped to a server rack that's about a foot away from my left shoulder
>>>at the moment. It's the spot where a server named michael2 is racked.
>>>
also wings, and he'd be fighting a dragon, not a biped with a
beak. The images are important to identify saints and thing in
artwork from a period when practically no one could read.
As for the beaked biped, he's one of your standard medieval
monsters. Hieronymus Bosch specialized in them, but Brueghel and
others of the period had lots of them.
>>>
>That old plague doc now makes an appearance everywhere my eyes look.
>The quote in my sig comes from _The Space Child's Mother Goose_. Guess
>what's on the cover and just about every page?
I don't think any of those are plague doctors, that's just how
>That old plague doc now makes an appearance everywhere my eyes look.
>The quote in my sig comes from _The Space Child's Mother Goose_. Guess
>what's on the cover and just about every page?
Norman Parry drew people.
Don Kuenz
Aug 20, 2016, 9:30:36 PM8/20/16
to
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> Snipping madly, hoping I don't mess up the attributions.
>
> In article <2016...@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <g...@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>
>>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>> In article <2016...@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <g...@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>
>>http://cdn.playbuzz.com/cdn/5d3d8db7-2a04-4a05-849a-798d2fc5dd61/260313ea-8759-420d-8850-685c721c3071.jpg
>>
>>>>The guy dressed in white on the left in your illustration reminds me of
>>>>an illustration of St Michael the Archangel poised with sword in hand
>>>>over Satan. [3] A playing card sized duplicate of Michael the Archangel
>>>>is taped to a server rack that's about a foot away from my left shoulder
>>>>at the moment. It's the spot where a server named michael2 is racked.
>>>>
> Hmmm ... if he were St. Michael he'd have a halo, and probably
> also wings, and he'd be fighting a dragon, not a biped with a
> beak. The images are important to identify saints and thing in
> artwork from a period when practically no one could read.
>
> As for the beaked biped, he's one of your standard medieval
> monsters. Hieronymus Bosch specialized in them, but Brueghel and
> others of the period had lots of them.
>>>>
>
>>That old plague doc now makes an appearance everywhere my eyes look.
>>The quote in my sig comes from _The Space Child's Mother Goose_. Guess
>>what's on the cover and just about every page?
>
> I don't think any of those are plague doctors, that's just how
> Norman Parry drew people.
docs to me. YMMV.
The hair of St. Michael in this picture:
http://www.saintgeorgecatholics.com/Images/stmichael.jpg
reminds me of the hair on the guy on the left in this picture:
http://cdn.playbuzz.com/cdn/5d3d8db7-2a04-4a05-849a-798d2fc5dd61/260313ea-8759-420d-8850-685c721c3071.jpg
In both illustrations the front hairline forms a triangle. The hair is
also blown back.
In the first illustration picture Michael has wings, but lacks a halo.
That illustration looks more modern to me than others that show Michael
with a halo.
The composition used with Michael shows up dozens of times in google. It
leads me to believe that all of the artists are copying a well known
illustration of Michael.
Speaking of Norman Perry, it seems that _The Space Child's Mother Goose_
just ran dry of sig material. So henceforth, my sigs will contain an
aphorism from the "Excerpts from the Notebooks of Lazarus Long" that
appear in Heinlein's _Time Enough for Love_. Because it just so happens
that _Time Enough_ is being read by me, for the first time, at the
moment. :0)
--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
Always store beer in a dark place.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
Aug 21, 2016, 1:29:14 AM8/21/16
to
On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 23:16:16 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
what options it gives you.
I'd guess it wants either a credit card or a PayPal account, but I
haven't tried it.
Heydt) wrote:
>In article <s8fhrb9q540o1qhb2...@reader80.eternal-september.org>,
>Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>>On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 19:16:14 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>>Heydt) wrote:
>>
>>>Note that in the graphic novels _Castle Waiting_, volumes I and
>>>II, there's a plague doctor in residence, though plague has never
>>>gotten near the castle, even in the days when it had commerce
>>>with the outside world. Vol. II explains his story: he was a
>>>plague doctor in Venice, but was unable to save most of his
>>>patients, including his fiance'e; it has driven him around the
>>>bend.
>>>
>>>Very good work, mixing a little history with a whole lot of fairy
>>>tales, ancient and modern (look out for the little burglars in
>>>Bremen). Vol. III has been hinted at for years; I hope it
>>>happens in my lifetime.
>>
>>She's trying to raise money for it:
>>
>>https://www.gofundme.com/lindamedley
>>
>Oh, gosh. I've bookmarked it, but since I'm not on Patreon or
>Etsy or Facebook or Twitter or anything else much, and since she
>didn't include anything like a P.O. Box, I'm unsure about how to.
You could try clicking the big button that says "Donate Now" and see
>In article <s8fhrb9q540o1qhb2...@reader80.eternal-september.org>,
>Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>>On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 19:16:14 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>>Heydt) wrote:
>>
>>>Note that in the graphic novels _Castle Waiting_, volumes I and
>>>II, there's a plague doctor in residence, though plague has never
>>>gotten near the castle, even in the days when it had commerce
>>>with the outside world. Vol. II explains his story: he was a
>>>plague doctor in Venice, but was unable to save most of his
>>>patients, including his fiance'e; it has driven him around the
>>>bend.
>>>
>>>Very good work, mixing a little history with a whole lot of fairy
>>>tales, ancient and modern (look out for the little burglars in
>>>Bremen). Vol. III has been hinted at for years; I hope it
>>>happens in my lifetime.
>>
>>She's trying to raise money for it:
>>
>>https://www.gofundme.com/lindamedley
>>
>Oh, gosh. I've bookmarked it, but since I'm not on Patreon or
>Etsy or Facebook or Twitter or anything else much, and since she
>didn't include anything like a P.O. Box, I'm unsure about how to.
what options it gives you.
I'd guess it wants either a credit card or a PayPal account, but I
haven't tried it.
Cryptoengineer
Aug 21, 2016, 1:35:27 AM8/21/16
to
Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> wrote in news:npa846$ao7$1...@dont-email.me:
I look at the cover, and see an allegorical illustration
of the battle between good and evil, health and plague, using
the imagery and style of 15th C Dutch painters, a time when the Black
Death was relatively recent, and breakouts of plague frequent.
Look up Hieronymus Bosch's "Temptation of Saint Anthony", or his
'Garden of Earthly Delights', or Bruegel the Elder's "The Fall of
the Rebel Angels'. Compare them *stylisticly* with the cover, and
I think you'll see the similarity.
BTW: The 'beak' in the plague doctors's mask is non-functonal. It
cannot open. It's filled with spices, through which the wearer breaths,
in accordance with the then-current notion that plagues were spresd
by 'bad air' rather than bacteria borne by fleas, borne by rats.
pt
of the battle between good and evil, health and plague, using
the imagery and style of 15th C Dutch painters, a time when the Black
Death was relatively recent, and breakouts of plague frequent.
Look up Hieronymus Bosch's "Temptation of Saint Anthony", or his
'Garden of Earthly Delights', or Bruegel the Elder's "The Fall of
the Rebel Angels'. Compare them *stylisticly* with the cover, and
I think you'll see the similarity.
BTW: The 'beak' in the plague doctors's mask is non-functonal. It
cannot open. It's filled with spices, through which the wearer breaths,
in accordance with the then-current notion that plagues were spresd
by 'bad air' rather than bacteria borne by fleas, borne by rats.
pt
Gary R. Schmidt
Aug 21, 2016, 9:19:09 AM8/21/16
to
On 21/08/2016 01:50, Don Kuenz wrote:
[SNIP]
> plague doctor for the village of Oxfordshire, England. ;0) Let's first
> revisit part of the story to set the stage.
>
"the village of Oxfordshire????"
Authorial up-stuff, or just the posters mistake? Because I am pretty
sure that Oxfordshire was not and is not and has at no time been a village.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
When men talk to their friends, they insult each other.
They don't really mean it.
When women talk to their friends, they compliment each other.
They don't mean it either.
[SNIP]
> plague doctor for the village of Oxfordshire, England. ;0) Let's first
> revisit part of the story to set the stage.
>
Authorial up-stuff, or just the posters mistake? Because I am pretty
sure that Oxfordshire was not and is not and has at no time been a village.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
When men talk to their friends, they insult each other.
They don't really mean it.
When women talk to their friends, they compliment each other.
They don't mean it either.
Dorothy J Heydt
Aug 21, 2016, 10:00:03 AM8/21/16
to
In article <n3mo8d-...@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au>,
Oxfordshire, and (having just woken up) I'm not going to go dig
up the book and find it out now.
Gary R. Schmidt <grsc...@acm.org> wrote:
>On 21/08/2016 01:50, Don Kuenz wrote:
>
>[SNIP]
>
>> plague doctor for the village of Oxfordshire, England. ;0) Let's first
>> revisit part of the story to set the stage.
>>
>"the village of Oxfordshire????"
>
>Authorial up-stuff, or just the posters mistake? Because I am pretty
>sure that Oxfordshire was not and is not and has at no time been a village.
Of course not. I forget the name of the actual village *IN*
>On 21/08/2016 01:50, Don Kuenz wrote:
>
>[SNIP]
>
>> plague doctor for the village of Oxfordshire, England. ;0) Let's first
>> revisit part of the story to set the stage.
>>
>"the village of Oxfordshire????"
>
>Authorial up-stuff, or just the posters mistake? Because I am pretty
>sure that Oxfordshire was not and is not and has at no time been a village.
Oxfordshire, and (having just woken up) I'm not going to go dig
up the book and find it out now.
Don Kuenz
Aug 21, 2016, 11:32:27 AM8/21/16
to
> On 21/08/2016 01:50, Don Kuenz wrote:
>
> [SNIP]
>
>> plague doctor for the village of Oxfordshire, England. ;0) Let's first
>> revisit part of the story to set the stage.
>>
> "the village of Oxfordshire????"
>
> Authorial up-stuff, or just the posters mistake? Because I am pretty
> sure that Oxfordshire was not and is not and has at no time been a village.
My mistake. Substitute the word "in" for "of" so it reads like this:
>
> [SNIP]
>
>> plague doctor for the village of Oxfordshire, England. ;0) Let's first
>> revisit part of the story to set the stage.
>>
> "the village of Oxfordshire????"
>
> Authorial up-stuff, or just the posters mistake? Because I am pretty
> sure that Oxfordshire was not and is not and has at no time been a village.
plague doctor for the village in Oxfordshire, England.
My mistake. Substitute the word "in" for "of" so it reads like this:
plague doctor for the village in Oxfordshire, England.
--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
By the data to date, there is only one animal in the Galaxy dangerous to
man - man himself. So he must supply his own indispensable competition.
He has no enemy to help him.
Don Kuenz
Aug 21, 2016, 11:33:54 AM8/21/16
to
Cryptoengineer <treif...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> wrote in news:npa846$ao7$1...@dont-email.me:
>> Well, for me, the "plague", and now that I've seen it, the "plague
>> doctor" link is too blatant to overlook, considering the subject
>> matter in The Stand. Going deeper than the "plague" concept, King does
>> everything but come right out and say that Flagg (who is, of course,
>> the primary bad guy of the book) is indeed a demon. To be fair, at
>> least one of the "good guys" *DOES* actually come right out and say it
>> in so many words, despite not having any concrete evidence to make the
>> claim at the time - and we readers are left to draw our own
>> conclusions on whether he *REALLY* is a demon, or just a really,
>> REALLY potent bad guy.
>
> I look at the cover, and see an allegorical illustration
> of the battle between good and evil, health and plague, using
> the imagery and style of 15th C Dutch painters, a time when the Black
> Death was relatively recent, and breakouts of plague frequent.
>
> Look up Hieronymus Bosch's "Temptation of Saint Anthony", or his
> 'Garden of Earthly Delights', or Bruegel the Elder's "The Fall of
> the Rebel Angels'. Compare them *stylisticly* with the cover, and
> I think you'll see the similarity.
>
> BTW: The 'beak' in the plague doctors's mask is non-functonal. It
> cannot open. It's filled with spices, through which the wearer breaths,
> in accordance with the then-current notion that plagues were spresd
> by 'bad air' rather than bacteria borne by fleas, borne by rats.
when they march into Guildhall on June 24 to elect the City's two
sheriffs. Nowadays they simply carry the nosegays in their hands and no
longer hold them to their noses as they did during the days of the
plague.
--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
Men are more sentimental than women. It blurs their thinking.
Magewolf
Aug 21, 2016, 12:04:39 PM8/21/16
to
visual image.
Garo the Animation episode 16 has an interesting example of one. He
is a Horror(their version of demons who possess people and take over
there driving passions) who is driven to heal people to the point that
he stops and heals the wounds of a knight who is trying to kill him.
Due to the nature of his passion he can only eat people who he has
brought to perfect health. During the fight he brings up the point that
he had saved hundreds of times as many people as he had eaten and that
most of the people he had killed would have died from natural causes
without his healing anyway.
Don Kuenz
Aug 21, 2016, 12:16:43 PM8/21/16
to
Skendgate in Oxfordshire, England. OTOH there's a goodreads thread
https://www.goodreads.com/Review/634610269/comments?subject=634610269
that mentions eight other places.
--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
Certainly the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you; if you don't bet
you can't win.
Dorothy J Heydt
Aug 21, 2016, 4:30:03 PM8/21/16
to
nosegays. Think of what London smelt like in the days when you
yelled "Gardy-loo!" and threw the contents of the chamber pot out
the window into the street.
It's not an entirely vainished problem. Ride a city bus and you
may find yourself sitting next to somebody who hasn't had the
opportunity to wash recently. One of the advice columnists (back
in the day of Ann vs. Abby, this was) recommended a dab of Vick's
Vaporub on one's upper lip. I got better results from a dab of
White Shoulders.
Robert Bannister
Aug 21, 2016, 8:34:49 PM8/21/16
to
Edinburgh who did that. I'm sure Londoners just emptied their
chamberpots into the street with no warning.
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
David DeLaney
Aug 21, 2016, 9:17:08 PM8/21/16
to
On 2016-08-21, Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> Plague wasn't the only reason for the higher-ups to carry
> nosegays. Think of what London smelt like in the days when you
> yelled "Gardy-loo!" and threw the contents of the chamber pot out
> the window into the street.
And, let us not forget, also when horses and other beasts of burden were the
> Plague wasn't the only reason for the higher-ups to carry
> nosegays. Think of what London smelt like in the days when you
> yelled "Gardy-loo!" and threw the contents of the chamber pot out
> the window into the street.
main motive power of non-foot transportation, and their exhaust was liquid or
solid, not pretty much entirely gaseous the way cars', trucks', and buses' are.
Dave, sacrificial shoes
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
website on VIC is down, probably for good - oh well/ I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Don Bruder
Aug 22, 2016, 12:14:17 AM8/22/16
to
In article <DfqdnXDEtOUQzyfK...@earthlink.com>,
David DeLaney <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On 2016-08-21, Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> > Plague wasn't the only reason for the higher-ups to carry
> > nosegays. Think of what London smelt like in the days when you
> > yelled "Gardy-loo!" and threw the contents of the chamber pot out
> > the window into the street.
>
> And, let us not forget, also when horses and other beasts of burden were the
> main motive power of non-foot transportation, and their exhaust was liquid or
> solid, not pretty much entirely gaseous the way cars', trucks', and buses'
> are.
>
> Dave, sacrificial shoes
Actually, platforms and/or high heels.
> On 2016-08-21, Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> > Plague wasn't the only reason for the higher-ups to carry
> > nosegays. Think of what London smelt like in the days when you
> > yelled "Gardy-loo!" and threw the contents of the chamber pot out
> > the window into the street.
>
> And, let us not forget, also when horses and other beasts of burden were the
> main motive power of non-foot transportation, and their exhaust was liquid or
> solid, not pretty much entirely gaseous the way cars', trucks', and buses'
> are.
>
> Dave, sacrificial shoes
Dorothy J Heydt
Aug 22, 2016, 12:15:04 AM8/22/16
to
In article <DfqdnXDEtOUQzyfK...@earthlink.com>,
now their cities would be free of pollution. Little did they
know.
David DeLaney <d...@vic.com> wrote:
>On 2016-08-21, Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> Plague wasn't the only reason for the higher-ups to carry
>> nosegays. Think of what London smelt like in the days when you
>> yelled "Gardy-loo!" and threw the contents of the chamber pot out
>> the window into the street.
>
>And, let us not forget, also when horses and other beasts of burden were the
>main motive power of non-foot transportation, and their exhaust was liquid or
>solid, not pretty much entirely gaseous the way cars', trucks', and buses' are.
Yeah, and when automobiles came in, city-dwellers cheered because
>On 2016-08-21, Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> Plague wasn't the only reason for the higher-ups to carry
>> nosegays. Think of what London smelt like in the days when you
>> yelled "Gardy-loo!" and threw the contents of the chamber pot out
>> the window into the street.
>
>And, let us not forget, also when horses and other beasts of burden were the
>main motive power of non-foot transportation, and their exhaust was liquid or
>solid, not pretty much entirely gaseous the way cars', trucks', and buses' are.
now their cities would be free of pollution. Little did they
know.
David Johnston
Aug 22, 2016, 12:12:17 PM8/22/16
to
Robert Carnegie
Aug 22, 2016, 4:31:33 PM8/22/16
to
Another sighting: In a certain work of fiction
(Gur Puevfgbcure Zneybjr Zlfgrevrf - ba enqvb sebz gur
Oevgvfu Oebnqpnfgvat Pbecbengvba), set in fact in
the England of Queen Elizabeth the First, -
I'm a bit hazy on the detail but either one
or two doctors were around - maybe one doctor
plus "common knowledge" about how to defeat
plague - anyway, two points of view were set out,
one from a man in the beaky biohazard suit:
the "smell the lovely flowers" theory of the
plauge, and an alternative theory involving
infection by invisibly small germs, and
quarantine for safety.
I think the germ theory was put forward by -
gur genvgbebhf ntrag bs Fcnva.
(Gur Puevfgbcure Zneybjr Zlfgrevrf - ba enqvb sebz gur
Oevgvfu Oebnqpnfgvat Pbecbengvba), set in fact in
the England of Queen Elizabeth the First, -
I'm a bit hazy on the detail but either one
or two doctors were around - maybe one doctor
plus "common knowledge" about how to defeat
plague - anyway, two points of view were set out,
one from a man in the beaky biohazard suit:
the "smell the lovely flowers" theory of the
plauge, and an alternative theory involving
infection by invisibly small germs, and
quarantine for safety.
I think the germ theory was put forward by -
gur genvgbebhf ntrag bs Fcnva.
Don Bruder
Aug 22, 2016, 6:38:54 PM8/22/16
to
In article <npf88v$fbt$2...@dont-email.me>,
Maybe *THEY* would have, but I'm not so sure *I* would have...
(Says someone with several summers spent, quite cheerfully, working on a
rock called Mackinac Island... The only motor vehicles there are
special-purpose/emergency gear - police jeep, ambulance, firetrucks, etc
- *ALL* transportation on the island is walk, bike, or horse. And no,
they *DON'T* wear those idiotic diapers.)
(Says someone with several summers spent, quite cheerfully, working on a
rock called Mackinac Island... The only motor vehicles there are
special-purpose/emergency gear - police jeep, ambulance, firetrucks, etc
- *ALL* transportation on the island is walk, bike, or horse. And no,
they *DON'T* wear those idiotic diapers.)
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Aug 22, 2016, 6:57:40 PM8/22/16
to
Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> wrote in
news:npfutr$4e5$1...@dont-email.me:
100,000 horses, producing 2.5 million pounds of manure *per* *day*.
Not to mention 25,000 *gallons* of urine a day. With an average
life expectancy of 3 years, that's over 30,000 dead horses per year
to be hauled off, as well. Around the turn of the century, the
streets of New York City were literally paved, feet deep, in horse
manure.
You really sure you'd trade today's air pollution for that?
--
Terry Austin
Tom "The Crap Man" Kratman is my bitch.
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
David Johnston
Aug 22, 2016, 8:57:00 PM8/22/16
to
On 8/22/2016 4:39 PM, Don Bruder wrote:
> In article <npf88v$fbt$2...@dont-email.me>,
> David Johnston <Davidjo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 8/21/2016 10:00 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> In article <DfqdnXDEtOUQzyfK...@earthlink.com>,
>>> David DeLaney <d...@vic.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2016-08-21, Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>>>> Plague wasn't the only reason for the higher-ups to carry
>>>>> nosegays. Think of what London smelt like in the days when you
>>>>> yelled "Gardy-loo!" and threw the contents of the chamber pot out
>>>>> the window into the street.
>>>>
>>>> And, let us not forget, also when horses and other beasts of burden were
>>>> the
>>>> main motive power of non-foot transportation, and their exhaust was liquid
>>>> or
>>>> solid, not pretty much entirely gaseous the way cars', trucks', and buses'
>>>> are.
>>>
>>> Yeah, and when automobiles came in, city-dwellers cheered because
>>> now their cities would be free of pollution. Little did they
>>> know.
>>>
>>
>> They would have traded their pollution for our pollution in a heartbeat.
>
> Maybe *THEY* would have, but I'm not so sure *I* would have...
That's because you've never lived in a city alongside a hundred thousand
> In article <npf88v$fbt$2...@dont-email.me>,
> David Johnston <Davidjo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 8/21/2016 10:00 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> In article <DfqdnXDEtOUQzyfK...@earthlink.com>,
>>> David DeLaney <d...@vic.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2016-08-21, Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>>>> Plague wasn't the only reason for the higher-ups to carry
>>>>> nosegays. Think of what London smelt like in the days when you
>>>>> yelled "Gardy-loo!" and threw the contents of the chamber pot out
>>>>> the window into the street.
>>>>
>>>> And, let us not forget, also when horses and other beasts of burden were
>>>> the
>>>> main motive power of non-foot transportation, and their exhaust was liquid
>>>> or
>>>> solid, not pretty much entirely gaseous the way cars', trucks', and buses'
>>>> are.
>>>
>>> Yeah, and when automobiles came in, city-dwellers cheered because
>>> now their cities would be free of pollution. Little did they
>>> know.
>>>
>>
>> They would have traded their pollution for our pollution in a heartbeat.
>
> Maybe *THEY* would have, but I'm not so sure *I* would have...
horses.
Cryptoengineer
Aug 22, 2016, 9:05:28 PM8/22/16
to
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:XnsA66CA25BD35...@69.16.179.43:
I dunno. I can certainly find plenty of articles making claims
similar to yours. They all seem to be second or third hand accounts.
But when I look at contemporary photos, I see plenty of horse
drawn vehicles, but relatively clean streets:
http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5010
Accounts of the 1600s in London, on the other hand...
pt
news:XnsA66CA25BD35...@69.16.179.43:
similar to yours. They all seem to be second or third hand accounts.
But when I look at contemporary photos, I see plenty of horse
drawn vehicles, but relatively clean streets:
http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5010
Accounts of the 1600s in London, on the other hand...
pt
J. Clarke
Aug 22, 2016, 9:19:58 PM8/22/16
to
In article <XnsA66CD68C15...@216.166.97.131>,
treif...@gmail.com says...
And there was a large crew of workers keeping them that way.
treif...@gmail.com says...
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Aug 22, 2016, 9:27:25 PM8/22/16
to
Cryptoengineer <treif...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:XnsA66CD68C15...@216.166.97.131:
Once the manure is packed down, it *looks* clean enough. Show me a
contemporary photo that includes the small, and perhaps I won't
laught at you quite so hard.
How many horses were in NYC is known. How much manure each horse,
on average, produced is also know.
The rest is simple arithmetic. Perhaps that's too much for you.
--
Terry Austin
news:XnsA66CD68C15...@216.166.97.131:
contemporary photo that includes the small, and perhaps I won't
laught at you quite so hard.
How many horses were in NYC is known. How much manure each horse,
on average, produced is also know.
The rest is simple arithmetic. Perhaps that's too much for you.
--
Terry Austin
Robert Bannister
Aug 22, 2016, 11:14:51 PM8/22/16
to
would have enjoyed walking or cycling in London in say 1900 when there
were something like 50,000 horses working in the city. New York may have
had 100,000. The sheer amount of manure and urine was staggering.
Peter Trei
Aug 23, 2016, 9:20:49 AM8/23/16
to
Nice places.
http://www.vintag.es/2015/10/new-york-street-scene-1900.html
http://www.vintag.es/2015/12/street-scene-in-new-york-1918.html
slums. First link is the main page of Jacob Riis's photos. I pulled a couple
with street scenes.
http://www.vintag.es/2014/06/amazing-vintage-photos-of-life-in-new.html
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bfMJ5Pa3zLo/U6b7Y_Pn4jI/AAAAAAAAsC0/QuA9hdLugYA/s1600/Life+in+New+York+City+from+the+1890s+(1).jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fYFf1exdT4I/U6b7fOKhX7I/AAAAAAAAsEI/X-VzJdhjfQ8/s1600/Life+in+New+York+City+from+the+1890s+(19).jpg
http://www.vintag.es/2015/12/new-york-street-scene-ca-1900.html
> How many horses were in NYC is known. How much manure each horse,
> on average, produced is also know.
do what's needed to deal with problems.
> The rest is simple arithmetic. Perhaps that's too much for you.
ubiquitous deep manure on the street. The accounts I find that present
that narrative all seem to be second or third hand.
Can you point to any first hand accounts (from, say, 1800-1910)?
The nearest thing I can find is this article:
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/articles/when-new-yorkers-lived-knee-deep-in-trash/
which includes photos showing the tremendous *improvement* of street conditions
between 1893 and 1895, during which period the famously corrupt Tammany Hall
city government was kicked out and competent commissioners appointed. The
'before' photos support your narrative; the 'after' ones do not.
pt
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Aug 23, 2016, 11:50:47 AM8/23/16
to
Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:bab87d60-015e-46c6...@googlegroups.com:
I clicked on both links. Neither provided me with any smell. Then I
realized that's because my computer does not have the ability to
provide smell on demand.
Do you even read what you're replying to? *Can* you?
--
Terry Austin
Tom "The Crap Man" Kratman is my bitch.
news:bab87d60-015e-46c6...@googlegroups.com:
realized that's because my computer does not have the ability to
provide smell on demand.
Do you even read what you're replying to? *Can* you?
--
Terry Austin
Tom "The Crap Man" Kratman is my bitch.
Peter Trei
Aug 23, 2016, 12:20:41 PM8/23/16
to
This is what I'm challenging.
I've provided contemporary photographic evidence that streets weren't
generally ankle deep in dung - indeed, many were cleaner than they
look today, at least after Tammany got kicked out and competent, non-corrupt
commissioners were installed. I've spent a lot of time around stables,
and know (even ground-in) horse leavings when I see them. I'm not seeing
that in most of these photos.
At this point, I'd like to have you point to some contemporary accounts
to support your position. You haven't provided any.
I'm not saying the city smelled like a rose, but accounts written long
after 1900 seem to exaggerate the problem, and downplay the efficacy of
efforts to cope with it.
pt
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Aug 23, 2016, 12:37:41 PM8/23/16
to
Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:17756170-1e59-4162...@googlegroups.com:
small,"
Moron.
Peter Trei
Aug 23, 2016, 1:14:41 PM8/23/16
to
them. SOP for you.
pt
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Aug 23, 2016, 2:32:00 PM8/23/16
to
Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:5e407b4d-d946-4380...@googlegroups.com:
something really stupid and aren't man enough to admit it.
Don Bruder
Aug 23, 2016, 2:48:18 PM8/23/16
to
In article <17756170-1e59-4162...@googlegroups.com>,
As is so often the case, Terry talks out his ass on a subject he knows
nothing about. Free hint, Terry: You've *READ ABOUT IT*. Probably on a
web page that might or might not have any actual *CONTENT* that applies.
I, on the other hand, have *LIVED IT*. Which of us do you *REALLY* think
has more actual knowledge on the subject? It ain't you, I can assure you.
Further hint: Horse shit doesn't "pack down" worth diddly. It doesn't
form anything that even *REMOTELY* resembles "pavement". If there were,
as you so glibly describe, "feet" of horse shit in the streets, the
first rain amounting to more than "water dots in the dust" would turn
that street you claim is paved with "feet" of horse shit into a quagmire
that would be impassable by any means short of flying. Y'see, wet horse
shit turns into slop - "too thick to flow, too thin to plow" is a
description of swampland I recently encountered. And it's just as
applicable to anything more than an inch or so of wet horse shit as I've
ever heard.
I wonder what Terry would make of shots of the main street of Mackinac
Island - The area of the place with the most horse traffic of anywhere
on the island other than the barn yards. Since he's so sure that he's
right (despite being so totally wrong he isn't even facing in the
general direction of "right", let alone actually getting anywhere near
it) he'll probably come up with some doofus claim that he wishes would
refute this:
<http://www.theislandhouse.com/cam/image.jpg> This is a webcam shot
that, when it isn't frozen up because of the tired old Windows box that
runs it, gets updated approximately every 60 seconds, and shows an image
from The Island House Hotel on Mackinac. It looks across main street,
about a quarter mile from the heart of downtown. Wow... Look at all the
shit piled in the street!
Or maybe this:
<http://www.neatmail.com/hornscam/twebcam32.jpg>
This is a shot that also updates approximately once per minute (but is
also motion-triggered, so there may be spans without an update if
there's nothing moving) from Horn's Bar, which is also on Main Street -
the bottom edge of the image is about 30 feet from the intersection
(Astor Street and Main) that's in constant competition with the corner
of Grand Boulevard and Market street for the title of "most horse
traffic on the island". The pink & purple awnings in front of the dark
roof toward the top of the image is one side of the Arnold Transit dock
- where most of the supplies, materials, and equipment that keep the
place fed and operating comes onto the island and gets transferred onto
horse-drawn flatbeds for delivery. Those two driveways come in a close
third to Astor/Main and Grand/Market for horse traffic.
How much horse shit do you see, Terry old boy?
Or how about this one:
<http://12.145.171.71/goform/stream?cmd=get&channel=4>
A nearly-live stream (it might actually be "real-time" if you've got a
fast connection - for me, it usually lags anywhere from a few seconds to
a minute) from The Chippewa Hotel. The strut supporting the blue sign
that you see from the Horn's Bar camera keeps this camera from being
visible in the Horn's image. The Chippewa is the big white building up
against the top edge of the Horn's cam image - The Horn's camera might
be visible if the image from this camera were larger and the third flag
from the bottom weren't in the way. As I type this, I can see what
*COULD* be what's left of a horse taking a leak, and looking further
along, there *MAY* be a pile of road-apples a block or so down.
So, Terry, you wanna tell us some more about how deep the shit is? Or do
you want to face up to the reality that you once again don't have a clue
what you're talking about?
My money says you'll flip and flop and desperately try to bullshit your
way out of giving an answer that actually makes any sense.
Oh, and as for the smell, I'll take the aroma of horse and/or horse
byproducts, whether liquid or solid, over the stench of car or truck
exhaust any day of the week, thanks. As a further note, a horse's
lifespan is usually a lot closer to 20 years than 3. And of course,
if/when one drops dead in the traces, I'm sure you'd LOVE to claim it
just gets left where it falls. But that would hardly be surprising from
you, since it's clear you don't have so much as the first fucking CLUE
about horses, horse-drawn transportation, or the logistics involved.
nothing about. Free hint, Terry: You've *READ ABOUT IT*. Probably on a
web page that might or might not have any actual *CONTENT* that applies.
I, on the other hand, have *LIVED IT*. Which of us do you *REALLY* think
has more actual knowledge on the subject? It ain't you, I can assure you.
Further hint: Horse shit doesn't "pack down" worth diddly. It doesn't
form anything that even *REMOTELY* resembles "pavement". If there were,
as you so glibly describe, "feet" of horse shit in the streets, the
first rain amounting to more than "water dots in the dust" would turn
that street you claim is paved with "feet" of horse shit into a quagmire
that would be impassable by any means short of flying. Y'see, wet horse
shit turns into slop - "too thick to flow, too thin to plow" is a
description of swampland I recently encountered. And it's just as
applicable to anything more than an inch or so of wet horse shit as I've
ever heard.
I wonder what Terry would make of shots of the main street of Mackinac
Island - The area of the place with the most horse traffic of anywhere
on the island other than the barn yards. Since he's so sure that he's
right (despite being so totally wrong he isn't even facing in the
general direction of "right", let alone actually getting anywhere near
it) he'll probably come up with some doofus claim that he wishes would
refute this:
<http://www.theislandhouse.com/cam/image.jpg> This is a webcam shot
that, when it isn't frozen up because of the tired old Windows box that
runs it, gets updated approximately every 60 seconds, and shows an image
from The Island House Hotel on Mackinac. It looks across main street,
about a quarter mile from the heart of downtown. Wow... Look at all the
shit piled in the street!
Or maybe this:
<http://www.neatmail.com/hornscam/twebcam32.jpg>
This is a shot that also updates approximately once per minute (but is
also motion-triggered, so there may be spans without an update if
there's nothing moving) from Horn's Bar, which is also on Main Street -
the bottom edge of the image is about 30 feet from the intersection
(Astor Street and Main) that's in constant competition with the corner
of Grand Boulevard and Market street for the title of "most horse
traffic on the island". The pink & purple awnings in front of the dark
roof toward the top of the image is one side of the Arnold Transit dock
- where most of the supplies, materials, and equipment that keep the
place fed and operating comes onto the island and gets transferred onto
horse-drawn flatbeds for delivery. Those two driveways come in a close
third to Astor/Main and Grand/Market for horse traffic.
How much horse shit do you see, Terry old boy?
Or how about this one:
<http://12.145.171.71/goform/stream?cmd=get&channel=4>
A nearly-live stream (it might actually be "real-time" if you've got a
fast connection - for me, it usually lags anywhere from a few seconds to
a minute) from The Chippewa Hotel. The strut supporting the blue sign
that you see from the Horn's Bar camera keeps this camera from being
visible in the Horn's image. The Chippewa is the big white building up
against the top edge of the Horn's cam image - The Horn's camera might
be visible if the image from this camera were larger and the third flag
from the bottom weren't in the way. As I type this, I can see what
*COULD* be what's left of a horse taking a leak, and looking further
along, there *MAY* be a pile of road-apples a block or so down.
So, Terry, you wanna tell us some more about how deep the shit is? Or do
you want to face up to the reality that you once again don't have a clue
what you're talking about?
My money says you'll flip and flop and desperately try to bullshit your
way out of giving an answer that actually makes any sense.
Oh, and as for the smell, I'll take the aroma of horse and/or horse
byproducts, whether liquid or solid, over the stench of car or truck
exhaust any day of the week, thanks. As a further note, a horse's
lifespan is usually a lot closer to 20 years than 3. And of course,
if/when one drops dead in the traces, I'm sure you'd LOVE to claim it
just gets left where it falls. But that would hardly be surprising from
you, since it's clear you don't have so much as the first fucking CLUE
about horses, horse-drawn transportation, or the logistics involved.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Aug 23, 2016, 2:51:47 PM8/23/16
to
Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> wrote in
news:npi5pd$o2c$1...@dont-email.me:
> How much horse shit do you see, Terry old boy?
>
Dumbass claimed to have posted links to photos that included the
smell. That's what makes him a dumbass (today).
You, appaerntly, were feeling lonely and left out.
But, hey, since Little Tommy seems to have finally figured out how to
stop, maybe I'll have some free time to play with you, too. Or you
two, as the case may be.
Scott Lurndal
Aug 23, 2016, 3:43:06 PM8/23/16
to
Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> writes:
>I wonder what Terry would make of shots of the main street of Mackinac
>Island - The area of the place with the most horse traffic of anywhere
>on the island other than the barn yards. Since he's so sure that he's
>right (despite being so totally wrong he isn't even facing in the
>general direction of "right", let alone actually getting anywhere near
>it) he'll probably come up with some doofus claim that he wishes would
>refute this:
I'm not sure that comparing Mackinac island (whose sole purpose is to
>I wonder what Terry would make of shots of the main street of Mackinac
>Island - The area of the place with the most horse traffic of anywhere
>on the island other than the barn yards. Since he's so sure that he's
>right (despite being so totally wrong he isn't even facing in the
>general direction of "right", let alone actually getting anywhere near
>it) he'll probably come up with some doofus claim that he wishes would
>refute this:
pander to UP tourists) with NYC pre-automobile can be done successfully.
Peter Trei
Aug 23, 2016, 6:02:30 PM8/23/16
to
Don answered.
pt
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Aug 23, 2016, 6:29:31 PM8/23/16
to
Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:24902f40-f150-4d35...@googlegroups.com:
But then, you claimed to have posted links to pictures that included
smell, so we can't actually expect anything coherent from you anyway.
David DeLaney
Aug 23, 2016, 7:35:20 PM8/23/16
to
On 2016-08-23, Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
>> How many horses were in NYC is known. How much manure each horse,
>> on average, produced is also know.
>
> Please factor into that the number street sweepers employed. People
> do what's needed to deal with problems.
And, of course, "how often did it rain?" and "how much did the local rivers
> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
>> How many horses were in NYC is known. How much manure each horse,
>> on average, produced is also know.
>
> Please factor into that the number street sweepers employed. People
> do what's needed to deal with problems.
get to carry away when that happened?". Horse manure _is_ biodegradable, to
at least some degree.
Dave
Don Kuenz
Aug 23, 2016, 7:35:24 PM8/23/16
to
Cryptoengineer <treif...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
> I dunno. I can certainly find plenty of articles making claims
> similar to yours. They all seem to be second or third hand accounts.
> But when I look at contemporary photos, I see plenty of horse
> drawn vehicles, but relatively clean streets:
>
> http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5010
>
> Accounts of the 1600s in London, on the other hand...
copy has a Herald Square postcard on the cover.
http://www.longitudebooks.com/images/book_large/NYC45.jpg
_Time and Again_ is yet another example of time travel "by means of
sheer willpower." That's Nahin's nomenclature from _Time Machines_.
Thank you,
--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
Delusions are often functional. A mother's opinions about her children's
beauty, intelligence, goodness, et cetera ad nauseam, keep her from
drowning them at birth.
Don Kuenz
Aug 23, 2016, 7:36:15 PM8/23/16
to
Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> wrote:
<snip>
> (Says someone with several summers spent, quite cheerfully, working on a
> rock called Mackinac Island... The only motor vehicles there are
> special-purpose/emergency gear - police jeep, ambulance, firetrucks, etc
> - *ALL* transportation on the island is walk, bike, or horse. And no,
> they *DON'T* wear those idiotic diapers.)
license to change Matheson's setting from Southern California to
Mackinac Island. The Hollywood treatment also changes the story's title
to "Somewhere in Time."
_Bid Time Return_ is yet another example of time travel "by means of
sheer willpower." That's Nahin's nomenclature from _Time Machines_.
Thank you,
--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
Most "scientists" are bottle washers and button sorters.
Thank you,
--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Aug 23, 2016, 7:52:23 PM8/23/16
to
David DeLaney <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:cdqdnbu_RdAsQCHK...@earthlink.com:
> On 2016-08-23, Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
>>> How many horses were in NYC is known. How much manure each
>>> horse, on average, produced is also know.
>>
>> Please factor into that the number street sweepers employed.
>> People do what's needed to deal with problems.
"horse manure crisis of 1894" auto complets on Google from about
the "c" on.
From:http://www.mass.gov/eea/agencies/massdep/water/watersheds/manu
re-impacts-on-surface-water-quality.html
(Note: They're not talking tens of thousands of horse here,
either.)
How does manure impact water resources?
When manure is deposited in water resources, either directly or by
runoff, it can negatively impact water resources. The nutrients
contained in manure, phosphorus and nitrogen, can be carried by
runoff to the nearest water body, such as a pond, stream or lake.
The nutrients then fertilize aquatic weeds and accelerate weed
growth in lakes and ponds. The aquatic plants deplete oxygen
levels, reducing the amount of oxygen available for other aquatic
species such as fish. When the weeds die, additional oxygen is
required for decomposition, further stressing oxygen stores and
aquatic life. Direct manure entry into the water resource can also
cause oxygen starvation due to increased biological oxygen demand
(BOD), and result in fish kills. Algae blooms are another result of
excess nutrients in the lake or pond. Algae blooms further reduce
oxygen in the water body, can turn the water an unsightly murky
green, and generate an unpleasant odor. Eutrophication (accelerated
weed growth) and algae blooms kill fish and make swimming and
boating unpleasant.
When the pathogens found in manure, including viruses, parasites,
and bacteria such as fecal coliform and e. coli, are deposited into
a stream or lake, swimming areas and shellfish beds may be closed.
Pet and livestock drinking water supplies may be contaminated.
--
Terry Austin
Tom "The Crap Man" Kratman is my bitch.
news:cdqdnbu_RdAsQCHK...@earthlink.com:
> On 2016-08-23, Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
>>> How many horses were in NYC is known. How much manure each
>>> horse, on average, produced is also know.
>>
>> Please factor into that the number street sweepers employed.
>> People do what's needed to deal with problems.
the "c" on.
>
> And, of course, "how often did it rain?" and "how much did the
> local rivers get to carry away when that happened?". Horse
> manure _is_ biodegradable, to at least some degree.
>
Sort of. Eventually.
> And, of course, "how often did it rain?" and "how much did the
> local rivers get to carry away when that happened?". Horse
> manure _is_ biodegradable, to at least some degree.
>
From:http://www.mass.gov/eea/agencies/massdep/water/watersheds/manu
re-impacts-on-surface-water-quality.html
(Note: They're not talking tens of thousands of horse here,
either.)
How does manure impact water resources?
When manure is deposited in water resources, either directly or by
runoff, it can negatively impact water resources. The nutrients
contained in manure, phosphorus and nitrogen, can be carried by
runoff to the nearest water body, such as a pond, stream or lake.
The nutrients then fertilize aquatic weeds and accelerate weed
growth in lakes and ponds. The aquatic plants deplete oxygen
levels, reducing the amount of oxygen available for other aquatic
species such as fish. When the weeds die, additional oxygen is
required for decomposition, further stressing oxygen stores and
aquatic life. Direct manure entry into the water resource can also
cause oxygen starvation due to increased biological oxygen demand
(BOD), and result in fish kills. Algae blooms are another result of
excess nutrients in the lake or pond. Algae blooms further reduce
oxygen in the water body, can turn the water an unsightly murky
green, and generate an unpleasant odor. Eutrophication (accelerated
weed growth) and algae blooms kill fish and make swimming and
boating unpleasant.
When the pathogens found in manure, including viruses, parasites,
and bacteria such as fecal coliform and e. coli, are deposited into
a stream or lake, swimming areas and shellfish beds may be closed.
Pet and livestock drinking water supplies may be contaminated.
--
Terry Austin
Tom "The Crap Man" Kratman is my bitch.
Don Bruder
Aug 23, 2016, 8:49:01 PM8/23/16
to
In article <cH1vz.18$Ie...@fx17.iad>,
Pander to tourists I'll accept. To UP tourists? You don't know much
about the Island, do you? Not only is it NOT much cared about (more like
scoffed at) by Yoopers, it's a destination for tourists from all over
the globe. They show up not just from across the state, or even across
the country, but from around the world. And I'm not talking about "Hey,
somebody put a pin in Latvia! We finally got a tourist from there!" I
mean by the thousands, every single day of the season. Today a group
from Britain. Tomorrow from China. The day after that, Australia, and so
on. You might like to THINK it's rinky-dink, but you'd be thinking wrong.
And I fail to see how it doesn't compare to pre-car NYC - Everything on
the island moves either by horse-powered vehicles, or by being carried.
*EVERYTHING* - From the food you eat at the restaurant, to the building
materials that put that restaurant up to begin with, the whiskey behind
the bar, gravel to patch the roads, sod to make the golf course pretty,
the LP Gas tanks to fire the stove in the kitchen, the souvenir junk at
Baxter's, the sugar for the fudge - *E*V*E*R*Y*T*H*I*N*G*.
When just the Carriage Tours "Big Barn" is full for the summer, 500+
horses stand in it at night. And that's *ONLY* the Big Barn - It doesn't
take into account the three dray barns, the three-horse barn (which
houses strictly those horses that are part of the three-horse hitch tour
buggies) the taxi barn, Gough's Taxi & Livery, Cindy's or Jack's riding
stable, Joe Plaza's Arrowhead barn, Chambers' riding stable, Mission
Point's dray barn, the Grand Hotel's barn, and the
I-can't-even-guess-how-many private horses. All together, somewhere in
the neighborhood of 8-900, perhaps as many as a thousand horses. All
crammed onto an island a little over 8 miles around the perimeter, and
with most of those horses operating in an area that MIGHT cover about 12
city blocks. Which means that the horse density on Mackinac Island in
the summer is almost certainly *MUCH* higher than it ever was in New
York City. Hell, by density, NYC didn't have any horses, compared to the
Island.
Yet somehow, the place doesn't end up, as Terry wants you/us to think,
buried in shit. Strange, that...
about the Island, do you? Not only is it NOT much cared about (more like
scoffed at) by Yoopers, it's a destination for tourists from all over
the globe. They show up not just from across the state, or even across
the country, but from around the world. And I'm not talking about "Hey,
somebody put a pin in Latvia! We finally got a tourist from there!" I
mean by the thousands, every single day of the season. Today a group
from Britain. Tomorrow from China. The day after that, Australia, and so
on. You might like to THINK it's rinky-dink, but you'd be thinking wrong.
And I fail to see how it doesn't compare to pre-car NYC - Everything on
the island moves either by horse-powered vehicles, or by being carried.
*EVERYTHING* - From the food you eat at the restaurant, to the building
materials that put that restaurant up to begin with, the whiskey behind
the bar, gravel to patch the roads, sod to make the golf course pretty,
the LP Gas tanks to fire the stove in the kitchen, the souvenir junk at
Baxter's, the sugar for the fudge - *E*V*E*R*Y*T*H*I*N*G*.
When just the Carriage Tours "Big Barn" is full for the summer, 500+
horses stand in it at night. And that's *ONLY* the Big Barn - It doesn't
take into account the three dray barns, the three-horse barn (which
houses strictly those horses that are part of the three-horse hitch tour
buggies) the taxi barn, Gough's Taxi & Livery, Cindy's or Jack's riding
stable, Joe Plaza's Arrowhead barn, Chambers' riding stable, Mission
Point's dray barn, the Grand Hotel's barn, and the
I-can't-even-guess-how-many private horses. All together, somewhere in
the neighborhood of 8-900, perhaps as many as a thousand horses. All
crammed onto an island a little over 8 miles around the perimeter, and
with most of those horses operating in an area that MIGHT cover about 12
city blocks. Which means that the horse density on Mackinac Island in
the summer is almost certainly *MUCH* higher than it ever was in New
York City. Hell, by density, NYC didn't have any horses, compared to the
Island.
Yet somehow, the place doesn't end up, as Terry wants you/us to think,
buried in shit. Strange, that...
Don Bruder
Aug 23, 2016, 9:22:40 PM8/23/16
to
In article <2016...@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <g...@crcomp.net> wrote:
> Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > (Says someone with several summers spent, quite cheerfully, working on a
> > rock called Mackinac Island... The only motor vehicles there are
> > special-purpose/emergency gear - police jeep, ambulance, firetrucks, etc
> > - *ALL* transportation on the island is walk, bike, or horse. And no,
> > they *DON'T* wear those idiotic diapers.)
>
> The Hollywood treatment of Matheson's _Bid Time Return_ uses poetic
> license to change Matheson's setting from Southern California to
> Mackinac Island. The Hollywood treatment also changes the story's title
> to "Somewhere in Time."
Although I can't recall the movie ever claiming to be "on Mackinac
> Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > (Says someone with several summers spent, quite cheerfully, working on a
> > rock called Mackinac Island... The only motor vehicles there are
> > special-purpose/emergency gear - police jeep, ambulance, firetrucks, etc
> > - *ALL* transportation on the island is walk, bike, or horse. And no,
> > they *DON'T* wear those idiotic diapers.)
>
> The Hollywood treatment of Matheson's _Bid Time Return_ uses poetic
> license to change Matheson's setting from Southern California to
> Mackinac Island. The Hollywood treatment also changes the story's title
> to "Somewhere in Time."
Island" in-story - The impression I've always gotten was that it was
supposed to be happening in Chicago - I've been aware of that for many
years, thanks. In fact, if you look carefully in the background as Mr.
Reeve motors up Cadotte Avenue, AKA "Grand Boulevard" to the hotel (A
special permit - which almost got turned down by the city council - was
required for that trip, BTW) You just might notice someone behind one of
the big trees on the right hand side of the road - I'd have to pull out
a copy and count to say for certain, but I think it was the 7th or 8th
tree after the Little Stone Church. That someone is... Wait for it...
Me. :) Be aware, though, that you'll have to be looking at the original
release cut - Several "oops" moments got snipped out in some of the
later re-releases - Including, among other things, my appearance (not
that it was much - basically my left arm and shoulder poking out from
behind the tree), a Shepler's boat going past in the background during
one of the scenes that look out over the lake from the Grand's porch, a
fellow who ducked past the "road closed" signs and zipped by the
carriage Christopher and Jane were riding in on a modern 10-speed bike,
and the modern fire-sprinklers that can be seen in the Grand's lobby
when Christopher sends the kid's ball (which, in and of itself is an
anachronism - that type of ball didn't come along until the 50s) back to
him.
Scott Lurndal
Aug 24, 2016, 8:49:14 AM8/24/16
to
Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> writes:
>In article <cH1vz.18$Ie...@fx17.iad>,
> sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>
>> Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> writes:
>>
>> >I wonder what Terry would make of shots of the main street of Mackinac
>> >Island - The area of the place with the most horse traffic of anywhere
>> >on the island other than the barn yards. Since he's so sure that he's
>> >right (despite being so totally wrong he isn't even facing in the
>> >general direction of "right", let alone actually getting anywhere near
>> >it) he'll probably come up with some doofus claim that he wishes would
>> >refute this:
>>
>> I'm not sure that comparing Mackinac island (whose sole purpose is to
>> pander to UP tourists) with NYC pre-automobile can be done successfully.
>
>Pander to tourists I'll accept. To UP tourists?
Tourists to UP, ov korse. It's either that or Sault Ste Marie.
>In article <cH1vz.18$Ie...@fx17.iad>,
> sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>
>> Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> writes:
>>
>> >I wonder what Terry would make of shots of the main street of Mackinac
>> >Island - The area of the place with the most horse traffic of anywhere
>> >on the island other than the barn yards. Since he's so sure that he's
>> >right (despite being so totally wrong he isn't even facing in the
>> >general direction of "right", let alone actually getting anywhere near
>> >it) he'll probably come up with some doofus claim that he wishes would
>> >refute this:
>>
>> I'm not sure that comparing Mackinac island (whose sole purpose is to
>> pander to UP tourists) with NYC pre-automobile can be done successfully.
>
>Pander to tourists I'll accept. To UP tourists?
Peter Trei
Aug 24, 2016, 8:58:38 AM8/24/16
to
On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 6:29:31 PM UTC-4, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
> Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:24902f40-f150-4d35...@googlegroups.com:
>
> > On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 3:43:06 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal
> > wrote:
> >> Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> writes:
> >>
> >> >I wonder what Terry would make of shots of the main street of
> >> >Mackinac Island - The area of the place with the most horse
> >> >traffic of anywhere on the island other than the barn yards.
> >> >Since he's so sure that he's right (despite being so totally
> >> >wrong he isn't even facing in the general direction of
> >> >"right", let alone actually getting anywhere near it) he'll
> >> >probably come up with some doofus claim that he wishes would
> >> >refute this:
> >>
> >> I'm not sure that comparing Mackinac island (whose sole purpose
> >> is to pander to UP tourists) with NYC pre-automobile can be
> >> done successfully.
> >
> > Terry asked 'How many feet deep was the manure?' in reference to
> > Mackinac.
>
> No. I didn't. Try again.
>
> But then, you claimed to have posted links to pictures that included
> smell, so we can't actually expect anything coherent from you anyway.
No Terry, you *didn't* ask for photos that 'included smell'. You asked for
> Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:24902f40-f150-4d35...@googlegroups.com:
>
> > On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 3:43:06 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal
> > wrote:
> >> Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> writes:
> >>
> >> >I wonder what Terry would make of shots of the main street of
> >> >Mackinac Island - The area of the place with the most horse
> >> >traffic of anywhere on the island other than the barn yards.
> >> >Since he's so sure that he's right (despite being so totally
> >> >wrong he isn't even facing in the general direction of
> >> >"right", let alone actually getting anywhere near it) he'll
> >> >probably come up with some doofus claim that he wishes would
> >> >refute this:
> >>
> >> I'm not sure that comparing Mackinac island (whose sole purpose
> >> is to pander to UP tourists) with NYC pre-automobile can be
> >> done successfully.
> >
> > Terry asked 'How many feet deep was the manure?' in reference to
> > Mackinac.
>
> No. I didn't. Try again.
>
> But then, you claimed to have posted links to pictures that included
> smell, so we can't actually expect anything coherent from you anyway.
ones which 'included the small'. Go back and check.
My interpretation of that was that the first batch of photos I posted were
too distant, and you were sure manure would show up in closer ones (you seem
to have very little notion of what old horse manure on pavement looks like;
I do, having spent a lot of time in stables). So, my 'easily done' post had
a bunch of close-up photos.
If you'd asked for photos which 'included the smell', I'd have responded
differently.
I'm bad enough at proofing my own posts that I won't ding you on that now.
pt
Peter Trei
Aug 24, 2016, 9:00:36 AM8/24/16
to
On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 8:49:14 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> writes:
> >In article <cH1vz.18$Ie...@fx17.iad>,
> > sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
> >
> >> Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> writes:
> >>
> >> >I wonder what Terry would make of shots of the main street of Mackinac
> >> >Island - The area of the place with the most horse traffic of anywhere
> >> >on the island other than the barn yards. Since he's so sure that he's
> >> >right (despite being so totally wrong he isn't even facing in the
> >> >general direction of "right", let alone actually getting anywhere near
> >> >it) he'll probably come up with some doofus claim that he wishes would
> >> >refute this:
> >>
> >> I'm not sure that comparing Mackinac island (whose sole purpose is to
> >> pander to UP tourists) with NYC pre-automobile can be done successfully.
> >
> >Pander to tourists I'll accept. To UP tourists?
>
> Tourists to UP, ov korse. It's either that or Sault Ste Marie.
Not clear if you know: 'UP' is local jargon for 'Upper Penninsula', the
> Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> writes:
> >In article <cH1vz.18$Ie...@fx17.iad>,
> > sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
> >
> >> Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> writes:
> >>
> >> >I wonder what Terry would make of shots of the main street of Mackinac
> >> >Island - The area of the place with the most horse traffic of anywhere
> >> >on the island other than the barn yards. Since he's so sure that he's
> >> >right (despite being so totally wrong he isn't even facing in the
> >> >general direction of "right", let alone actually getting anywhere near
> >> >it) he'll probably come up with some doofus claim that he wishes would
> >> >refute this:
> >>
> >> I'm not sure that comparing Mackinac island (whose sole purpose is to
> >> pander to UP tourists) with NYC pre-automobile can be done successfully.
> >
> >Pander to tourists I'll accept. To UP tourists?
>
> Tourists to UP, ov korse. It's either that or Sault Ste Marie.
northern fragment of Michigan. People from there are sometimes called
'yoopers'.
pt
Michael F. Stemper
Aug 24, 2016, 10:05:38 AM8/24/16
to
On 2016-08-23 18:35, Don Kuenz wrote:
recap?
I just read _Time and Again_ for the first time this summer and was
quite enchanted. Although "time travel through willpower" sounds
ridiculous, Finney made it work really well.
--
Michael F. Stemper
This sentence no verb.
> Cryptoengineer <treif...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5010
>>
>> Accounts of the 1600s in London, on the other hand...
>
> The Herald Square photos bring to mind Finney's _Time and Again_. My
> copy has a Herald Square postcard on the cover.
>
> http://www.longitudebooks.com/images/book_large/NYC45.jpg
>
> _Time and Again_ is yet another example of time travel "by means of
> sheer willpower." That's Nahin's nomenclature from _Time Machines_.
You say "yet another example". I missed the first few. Could you
>> http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5010
>>
>> Accounts of the 1600s in London, on the other hand...
>
> The Herald Square photos bring to mind Finney's _Time and Again_. My
> copy has a Herald Square postcard on the cover.
>
> http://www.longitudebooks.com/images/book_large/NYC45.jpg
>
> _Time and Again_ is yet another example of time travel "by means of
> sheer willpower." That's Nahin's nomenclature from _Time Machines_.
recap?
I just read _Time and Again_ for the first time this summer and was
quite enchanted. Although "time travel through willpower" sounds
ridiculous, Finney made it work really well.
--
Michael F. Stemper
This sentence no verb.
Scott Lurndal
Aug 24, 2016, 10:08:50 AM8/24/16
to
And yes, I grew up across the big lake from the UP.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Aug 24, 2016, 11:39:27 AM8/24/16
to
Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:155a3575-8dca-4ab3...@googlegroups.com:
for.
>
> I'm bad enough at proofing my own posts that I won't ding you on
> that now.
>
> pt
>
> I'm bad enough at proofing my own posts that I won't ding you on
> that now.
>
> pt
>
Don Bruder
Aug 24, 2016, 11:43:22 AM8/24/16
to
In article <PThvz.7429$j44....@fx24.iad>,
There are tourists *TO* the UP?!?!?!? And all these years, I was under
the impression that the only reason for the Bridge was to get the
hunters up there... :)
"If it's tourist season, why can't we shoot 'em???"
IME, most of Northern Michigan has a love/hate relationship with
tourists - Love the $$$ they bring, hate the *STOOOOPID* that comes with
'em. When it comes to yoopers, the latter part seems to be the stronger
emotion.
the impression that the only reason for the Bridge was to get the
hunters up there... :)
"If it's tourist season, why can't we shoot 'em???"
IME, most of Northern Michigan has a love/hate relationship with
tourists - Love the $$$ they bring, hate the *STOOOOPID* that comes with
'em. When it comes to yoopers, the latter part seems to be the stronger
emotion.
Peter Trei
Aug 24, 2016, 12:21:16 PM8/24/16
to
- start quote -
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Plague Doctor, a treatment for Willis' _ Doomsday Book_
From: Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com>
<XnsA66CD68C15...@216.166.97.131>
Message-ID: <XnsA66CBBC02CF...@69.16.179.43>
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 18:27:23 -0700
[...]
Once the manure is packed down, it *looks* clean enough. Show me a
contemporary photo that includes the small, and perhaps I won't
laught at you quite so hard.
[...]
contemporary photo that includes the small, and perhaps I won't
laught at you quite so hard.
- end quote -
It's difficult to lie about what you said on usenet.
pt
The word 'small' is used. Deal with it.
pt
Don Kuenz
Aug 24, 2016, 12:23:49 PM8/24/16
to
travel by will power" story in this thread. Nahin also mentions other
stories.
Transporting one's self into the past either by means of
psi-powers, as in "Psi-Man" (Dick), or by means of sheer
willpower, as in _The Time Stream_ (Bell), _Time and Again_
and _Time After Time_ (Finney), "The Ambiguities of Yesterday"
(Eklund), and _Bid Time Return_ (Matheson), are also out [of
the scope of Nahin's book on time *machines*].
Thank you,
--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
less dangerous than fancies, that fact-finding is more effective than
fault-finding. - Becker
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Aug 24, 2016, 12:24:09 PM8/24/16
to
Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:aed4048c-26b1-44f8...@googlegroups.com:
for. "photo that includes teh smell."
Retard.
Kevrob
Aug 24, 2016, 1:45:45 PM8/24/16
to
basically Chicagoland, and head north, many people own or rent cabins
"up north." "Up North" is a moving target. Wherever you live in Northern
Illinois or the more southerly parts of Wisconsin, you hear people regaling
you with stories about their lovely place on the lake, or in the woods.
There's a variation of "mine is bigger than yours," where Stan dismisses
Joe's vacation spot as "not really Up North" because it is too close to
Milwaukee or Madison. Some people make it seem like you aren't "Up North"
until your nearest neighbors are Clark Savage, JR, MD and Kal-El. Then
along comes the guy who says he rents a cottage from Santa!
> > And yes, I grew up across the big lake from the UP.
>
besides.
> There are tourists *TO* the UP?!?!?!? And all these years, I was under
> the impression that the only reason for the Bridge was to get the
> hunters up there... :)
>
> "If it's tourist season, why can't we shoot 'em???"
>
> IME, most of Northern Michigan has a love/hate relationship with
> tourists - Love the $$$ they bring, hate the *STOOOOPID* that comes with
> 'em. When it comes to yoopers, the latter part seems to be the stronger
> emotion.
>
>
there are the fall "leaf peepers." We have those in New England, also.
Kevin R
Michael F. Stemper
Aug 24, 2016, 2:42:44 PM8/24/16
to
On 2016-08-24 10:43, Don Bruder wrote:
> In article <PThvz.7429$j44....@fx24.iad>,
> sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>> Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> writes:
>>> Not clear if you know: 'UP' is local jargon for 'Upper Penninsula', the
>>> northern fragment of Michigan. People from there are sometimes called
>>> 'yoopers'.
>>
>> "UP tourists" can read either as "Tourists to the UP" or "Tourists from the
>> UP".
>>
>> And yes, I grew up across the big lake from the UP.
>
> There are tourists *TO* the UP?!?!?!? And all these years, I was under
> the impression that the only reason for the Bridge was to get the
> hunters up there... :)
And we all know what lives underneath a bridge, right?
> In article <PThvz.7429$j44....@fx24.iad>,
> sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>> Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> writes:
>>> Not clear if you know: 'UP' is local jargon for 'Upper Penninsula', the
>>> northern fragment of Michigan. People from there are sometimes called
>>> 'yoopers'.
>>
>> "UP tourists" can read either as "Tourists to the UP" or "Tourists from the
>> UP".
>>
>> And yes, I grew up across the big lake from the UP.
>
> There are tourists *TO* the UP?!?!?!? And all these years, I was under
> the impression that the only reason for the Bridge was to get the
> hunters up there... :)
--
Michael F. Stemper
Say "Yah" to da UP, eh?
Don Bruder
Aug 24, 2016, 4:06:13 PM8/24/16
to
David DeLaney
Aug 25, 2016, 12:37:21 AM8/25/16
to
On 2016-08-24, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
> Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> No, you didn't. Here's the relevant headers and content from
>> your post:
>>
>> - start quote -
>> Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
>> Subject: Re: Plague Doctor, a treatment for Willis' _ Doomsday
>> Book_ From: Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com>
>> <XnsA66CD68C15...@216.166.97.131>
>> Message-ID: <XnsA66CBBC02CF...@69.16.179.43>
>> Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 18:27:23 -0700
>> [...]
>> Once the manure is packed down, it *looks* clean enough. Show me
>> a contemporary photo that includes the small, and perhaps I
>> won't laught at you quite so hard.
>> [...]
>> - end quote -
>>
>> It's difficult to lie about what you said on usenet.
>>
>> pt
>>
>> The word 'small' is used. Deal with it.
>>
> Are you drinkin Drano or something? That's *exactly* what I asked
> for. "photo that includes teh smell."
Terry, perhaps you should actually look at what Peter is posting? You may
>> your post:
>>
>> - start quote -
>> Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
>> Subject: Re: Plague Doctor, a treatment for Willis' _ Doomsday
>> Book_ From: Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com>
>> <XnsA66CD68C15...@216.166.97.131>
>> Message-ID: <XnsA66CBBC02CF...@69.16.179.43>
>> Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 18:27:23 -0700
>> [...]
>> Once the manure is packed down, it *looks* clean enough. Show me
>> a contemporary photo that includes the small, and perhaps I
>> won't laught at you quite so hard.
>> [...]
>> - end quote -
>>
>> It's difficult to lie about what you said on usenet.
>>
>> pt
>>
>> The word 'small' is used. Deal with it.
>>
> Are you drinkin Drano or something? That's *exactly* what I asked
> for. "photo that includes teh smell."
have MEANT to type "smell". That doesn't seem to be the word you ended up
typing.
And you know the regulars here know better than to try to read your mind...
Dave, I have neuropathic fingers myself so I do a lot of backspacing these days
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Aug 25, 2016, 1:45:38 AM8/25/16
to
David DeLaney <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:l8ydneAR5uJn6CPK...@earthlink.com:
admission that he can't actually dispute what I said, you know.
>
> And you know the regulars here know better than to try to read
> your mind...
If you can't figure it out from context, then you are so mentally
> And you know the regulars here know better than to try to read
> your mind...
retarded you should be put in a home. Seriously. Retarded.
>
> Dave, I have neuropathic fingers myself so I do a lot of
> backspacing these days
I'm happy for you. Pete's a retard, too, apparently. Not that
> Dave, I have neuropathic fingers myself so I do a lot of
> backspacing these days
there's anything new about that.
--
Terry Austin
Peter Trei
Aug 25, 2016, 8:51:25 AM8/25/16
to
had a reasonable interpretation, whereas what he now claims to have
meant did not. So, I took him at his (written) word, and responded.
Later I realized that he might have been asking for something impossible
(this is Terry we're dealing with, after all), and called it out.
pt
Brian M. Scott
Aug 25, 2016, 11:50:53 AM8/25/16
to
On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 05:51:21 -0700 (PDT), Peter Trei
<pete...@gmail.com> wrote
in<news:9b980031-485a-424d...@googlegroups.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written:
[...]
> Terry's "spelling error" produced a new, valid sentence,
> which in context had a reasonable interpretation,
> whereas what he now claims to have meant did not.
No.
He wrote ‘Show me a contemporary photo that includes the
small, and perhaps I won't laught at you quite so hard.’
One expects typos from Terry, but he writes standard
English. ‘[T]hat includes the small’ is not standard
English. In the context of pollution from horse manure,
however, ‘small’ here *is* an obvious typo for ‘smell’.
> So, I took him at his (written) word, and responded.
> Later I realized that he might have been asking for
> something impossible (this is Terry we're dealing with,
> after all), and called it out.
Of course he was asking for something impossible; that was
the point! It’s a standard rhetorical device. You made a
silly mistake that you’re now trying unsuccessfully to
justify.
Brian
--
It was the neap tide, when the baga venture out of their
holes to root for sandtatties. The waves whispered
rhythmically over the packed sand: haggisss, haggisss,
haggisss.
<pete...@gmail.com> wrote
in<news:9b980031-485a-424d...@googlegroups.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written:
[...]
> Terry's "spelling error" produced a new, valid sentence,
> which in context had a reasonable interpretation,
> whereas what he now claims to have meant did not.
He wrote ‘Show me a contemporary photo that includes the
small, and perhaps I won't laught at you quite so hard.’
One expects typos from Terry, but he writes standard
English. ‘[T]hat includes the small’ is not standard
English. In the context of pollution from horse manure,
however, ‘small’ here *is* an obvious typo for ‘smell’.
> So, I took him at his (written) word, and responded.
> Later I realized that he might have been asking for
> something impossible (this is Terry we're dealing with,
> after all), and called it out.
the point! It’s a standard rhetorical device. You made a
silly mistake that you’re now trying unsuccessfully to
justify.
Brian
--
It was the neap tide, when the baga venture out of their
holes to root for sandtatties. The waves whispered
rhythmically over the packed sand: haggisss, haggisss,
haggisss.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Aug 25, 2016, 11:59:30 AM8/25/16
to
Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:9b980031-485a-424d...@googlegroups.com:
> whereas what he now
> claims to have meant did not. So, I took him at his (written)
> word, and responded.
retard. Not "the small _somethning_," just "the small." "Small"
isn't even a noun, retard. Seriously. What did you believe that
meant?
>
> Later I realized that he might have been asking for something
> impossible (this is Terry we're dealing with, after all), and
> called it out.
>
And admitting, publicly, that you're a retard. Again. Not that
> Later I realized that he might have been asking for something
> impossible (this is Terry we're dealing with, after all), and
> called it out.
>
there was *any* doubt.
--
Terry Austin
Tom "The Crap Man" Kratman is my bitch.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Aug 25, 2016, 12:02:48 PM8/25/16
to
"Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote in news:1619o1ib3oxhw
$.k70cqr53ewq$.d...@40tude.net:
> On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 05:51:21 -0700 (PDT), Peter Trei
> <pete...@gmail.com> wrote
> in<news:9b980031-485a-424d...@googlegroups.com>
> in rec.arts.sf.written:
>
> [...]
>
>> Terry's "spelling error" produced a new, valid sentence,
>> which in context had a reasonable interpretation,
>> whereas what he now claims to have meant did not.
>
> No.
>
> He wrote ‘Show me a contemporary photo that includes the
> small, and perhaps I won't laught at you quite so hard.’
> One expects typos from Terry, but he writes standard
> English. ‘[T]hat includes the small’ is not standard
> English. In the context of pollution from horse manure,
> however, ‘small’ here *is* an obvious typo for ‘smell’.
Dude, when *Brian* says you're full of shit, and that I'm right,
well, dude.
object lesson here isn't that I asked for the impossible, it's that
Pete claimed to have delivered it. Because he's *stupid*.
--
Terry Austin
Tom "The Crap Man" Kratman is my bitch.
$.k70cqr53ewq$.d...@40tude.net:
> On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 05:51:21 -0700 (PDT), Peter Trei
> <pete...@gmail.com> wrote
> in<news:9b980031-485a-424d...@googlegroups.com>
> in rec.arts.sf.written:
>
> [...]
>
>> Terry's "spelling error" produced a new, valid sentence,
>> which in context had a reasonable interpretation,
>> whereas what he now claims to have meant did not.
>
> No.
>
> He wrote ‘Show me a contemporary photo that includes the
> small, and perhaps I won't laught at you quite so hard.’
> One expects typos from Terry, but he writes standard
> English. ‘[T]hat includes the small’ is not standard
> English. In the context of pollution from horse manure,
> however, ‘small’ here *is* an obvious typo for ‘smell’.
well, dude.
>
>> So, I took him at his (written) word, and responded.
>
>> Later I realized that he might have been asking for
>> something impossible (this is Terry we're dealing with,
>> after all), and called it out.
>
> Of course he was asking for something impossible; that was
> the point! It’s a standard rhetorical device. You made a
> silly mistake that you’re now trying unsuccessfully to
> justify.
>
He's incapable of doing otherwise. Literally incapable. The real
>> So, I took him at his (written) word, and responded.
>
>> Later I realized that he might have been asking for
>> something impossible (this is Terry we're dealing with,
>> after all), and called it out.
>
> Of course he was asking for something impossible; that was
> the point! It’s a standard rhetorical device. You made a
> silly mistake that you’re now trying unsuccessfully to
> justify.
>
object lesson here isn't that I asked for the impossible, it's that
Pete claimed to have delivered it. Because he's *stupid*.
--
Terry Austin
Tom "The Crap Man" Kratman is my bitch.
Peter Trei
Aug 25, 2016, 1:27:04 PM8/25/16
to
On Thursday, August 25, 2016 at 11:50:53 AM UTC-4, Brian M. Scott wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 05:51:21 -0700 (PDT), Peter Trei
> <pete...@gmail.com> wrote
> in<news:9b980031-485a-424d...@googlegroups.com>
> in rec.arts.sf.written:
>
> [...]
>
> > Terry's "spelling error" produced a new, valid sentence,
> > which in context had a reasonable interpretation,
> > whereas what he now claims to have meant did not.
>
> No.
>
> He wrote ‘Show me a contemporary photo that includes the
> small, and perhaps I won't laught at you quite so hard.’
> One expects typos from Terry, but he writes standard
> English. ‘[T]hat includes the small’ is not standard
> English. In the context of pollution from horse manure,
> however, ‘small’ here *is* an obvious typo for ‘smell’.
>
> > So, I took him at his (written) word, and responded.
>
> > Later I realized that he might have been asking for
> > something impossible (this is Terry we're dealing with,
> > after all), and called it out.
>
> Of course he was asking for something impossible; that was
> the point! It’s a standard rhetorical device.
...which he failed to execute correctly, falling flat on his
> On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 05:51:21 -0700 (PDT), Peter Trei
> <pete...@gmail.com> wrote
> in<news:9b980031-485a-424d...@googlegroups.com>
> in rec.arts.sf.written:
>
> [...]
>
> > Terry's "spelling error" produced a new, valid sentence,
> > which in context had a reasonable interpretation,
> > whereas what he now claims to have meant did not.
>
> No.
>
> He wrote ‘Show me a contemporary photo that includes the
> small, and perhaps I won't laught at you quite so hard.’
> One expects typos from Terry, but he writes standard
> English. ‘[T]hat includes the small’ is not standard
> English. In the context of pollution from horse manure,
> however, ‘small’ here *is* an obvious typo for ‘smell’.
>
> > So, I took him at his (written) word, and responded.
>
> > Later I realized that he might have been asking for
> > something impossible (this is Terry we're dealing with,
> > after all), and called it out.
>
> Of course he was asking for something impossible; that was
> the point! It’s a standard rhetorical device.
face.
pt
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Aug 25, 2016, 2:02:05 PM8/25/16
to
Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:4cc9668d-ff19-4cec...@googlegroups.com:
as something that can be included in a photograph. Maybe you could
find an example of Google Images.
Seriously, dude. Small isn't even a noun.
I'm going to keep asking until you answer.
--
Terry Austin
Tom "The Crap Man" Kratman is my bitch.
Tom Kratman
Aug 25, 2016, 5:59:43 PM8/25/16
to
Picture a gnome, hunching over a keyboard,
The monitor shining on two piggish eyes.
Smelly and drooling, his life is a shambles,
Po', po' Terry Austin now cries.
All that he wants is to matter on USENET,
To control whatever little he ca-a-an.
Now he dances to my tune, he just cannot help it,
He's outclassed, the poor (almost) man.
Little Terry Austin is cry-y-ying
Little Terry Austin is cry-y-ying
Ho....ho....ho.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Aug 25, 2016, 8:37:00 PM8/25/16
to
Joe Bernstein
Aug 25, 2016, 10:40:29 PM8/25/16
to
On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 9:23:49 AM UTC-7, Don Kuenz wrote:
> Matheson's _Bid Time Return_ AKA _Somewhere in Time_ is the other "time
> travel by will power" story in this thread. Nahin also mentions other
> stories.
>
> Transporting one's self into the past either by means of
> psi-powers, as in "Psi-Man" (Dick), or by means of sheer
> willpower, as in _The Time Stream_ (Bell), _Time and Again_
> and _Time After Time_ (Finney), "The Ambiguities of Yesterday"
> (Eklund), and _Bid Time Return_ (Matheson), are also out [of
> the scope of Nahin's book on time *machines*].
Analogous transport, but not to the past, happens in Andre Norton's
> Matheson's _Bid Time Return_ AKA _Somewhere in Time_ is the other "time
> travel by will power" story in this thread. Nahin also mentions other
> stories.
>
> Transporting one's self into the past either by means of
> psi-powers, as in "Psi-Man" (Dick), or by means of sheer
> willpower, as in _The Time Stream_ (Bell), _Time and Again_
> and _Time After Time_ (Finney), "The Ambiguities of Yesterday"
> (Eklund), and _Bid Time Return_ (Matheson), are also out [of
> the scope of Nahin's book on time *machines*].
first Witch World book. I'm also pretty sure it happens *somewhere*
in the Kuttner / Moore <Startling Stories> set, which I finally read
all of last year around this time, but am not sure which stories or
how exactly it worked.
There's no actual time *travel*, but I'm pretty sure there's psychic
contact between present and past in Louise Marley's <The Glass
Harmonica>.
Joe Bernstein
--
Joe Bernstein, writer and tax preparer <j...@sfbooks.com>
David DeLaney
Aug 25, 2016, 11:13:21 PM8/25/16
to
On 2016-08-25, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
> Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> > Terry's "spelling error" produced a new, valid sentence,
>>> > which in context had a reasonable interpretation,
>>> > whereas what he now claims to have meant did not.
>>>
>>> No.
>>>
>>> He wrote ???Show me a contemporary photo that includes the
>>> > which in context had a reasonable interpretation,
>>> > whereas what he now claims to have meant did not.
>>>
>>> No.
>>>
>>> small, and perhaps I won't laught at you quite so hard.???
>>> One expects typos from Terry, but he writes standard
>>> English. ???[T]hat includes the small??? is not standard
>>> English. In the context of pollution from horse manure,
>>> however, ???small??? here *is* an obvious typo for ???smell???.
>>>
>>> > So, I took him at his (written) word, and responded.
>>>
>>> > Later I realized that he might have been asking for
>>> > something impossible (this is Terry we're dealing with,
>>> > after all), and called it out.
>>>
>>> Of course he was asking for something impossible; that was
>>> the point! It???s a standard rhetorical device.
>>> > So, I took him at his (written) word, and responded.
>>>
>>> > Later I realized that he might have been asking for
>>> > something impossible (this is Terry we're dealing with,
>>> > after all), and called it out.
>>>
>>> Of course he was asking for something impossible; that was
>>
>> ...which he failed to execute correctly, falling flat on his
>> face.
>
> I'm still waiting for you to explain what a "small" is, in context
> as something that can be included in a photograph. Maybe you could
> find an example of Google Images.
ObClassicSFTitle: _The Big and the Little_.
>> ...which he failed to execute correctly, falling flat on his
>> face.
>
> I'm still waiting for you to explain what a "small" is, in context
> as something that can be included in a photograph. Maybe you could
> find an example of Google Images.
> Seriously, dude. Small isn't even a noun.
Dave, so, due to sf, is Bright
ps: adjectiving weirds languagey
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Aug 25, 2016, 11:56:36 PM8/25/16
to
David DeLaney <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:WYydnStViM1XLiLK...@earthlink.com:
--
Terry Austin
Brian M. Scott
Aug 26, 2016, 12:23:24 PM8/26/16
to
On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 19:40:27 -0700 (PDT), Joe Bernstein
<j...@sfbooks.com> wrote
in<news:e702f438-a874-46de...@googlegroups.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written:
> On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 9:23:49 AM UTC-7, Don
> Kuenz wrote:
>> Matheson's _Bid Time Return_ AKA _Somewhere in Time_ is
>> the other "time travel by will power" story in this
>> thread. Nahin also mentions other stories.
>> Transporting one's self into the past either by means of
>> psi-powers, as in "Psi-Man" (Dick), or by means of sheer
>> willpower, as in _The Time Stream_ (Bell), _Time and Again_
>> and _Time After Time_ (Finney), "The Ambiguities of Yesterday"
>> (Eklund), and _Bid Time Return_ (Matheson), are also out [of
>> the scope of Nahin's book on time *machines*].
> Analogous transport, but not to the past, happens in
> Andre Norton's first Witch World book.
Not precisely analogous, no. The gate clearly does not
operate by will power, though it uses the traveller’s
psyche to determine a destination, and it does not appear
to involve psi power in the traditional sf sense. It’s
magic of a very high ‘technological’ level.
[...]
<j...@sfbooks.com> wrote
in<news:e702f438-a874-46de...@googlegroups.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written:
> On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 9:23:49 AM UTC-7, Don
> Kuenz wrote:
>> Matheson's _Bid Time Return_ AKA _Somewhere in Time_ is
>> the other "time travel by will power" story in this
>> thread. Nahin also mentions other stories.
>> Transporting one's self into the past either by means of
>> psi-powers, as in "Psi-Man" (Dick), or by means of sheer
>> willpower, as in _The Time Stream_ (Bell), _Time and Again_
>> and _Time After Time_ (Finney), "The Ambiguities of Yesterday"
>> (Eklund), and _Bid Time Return_ (Matheson), are also out [of
>> the scope of Nahin's book on time *machines*].
> Analogous transport, but not to the past, happens in
> Andre Norton's first Witch World book.
operate by will power, though it uses the traveller’s
psyche to determine a destination, and it does not appear
to involve psi power in the traditional sf sense. It’s
magic of a very high ‘technological’ level.
[...]
William December Starr
Aug 26, 2016, 6:02:56 PM8/26/16
to
In article <npkpr2$pb2$2...@dont-email.me>,
Another bridge?
http://il8.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/6707113/thumb/1.jpg
-- wds
http://il8.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/6707113/thumb/1.jpg
-- wds
Don Kuenz
Aug 26, 2016, 9:12:01 PM8/26/16
to
different type of mental temporal transport. In these two stories the
protagonists' consciousness are involuntarily sent back in time to their
younger selves. _Crystal_ seems the more realistic of the two stories
because its protagonist encounters a temporal inertia that greatly
restricts his ability to do things differently the second time through
his earlier life.
Nostalgia may provide a powerful catalyst for voluntary time travel via
sheer will power. Heinlein's _Time Enough for Love_ implies that
nostalgia's power grows with age:
"Oh, hush up. Son, I don't want to reminisce about the past;
it's a sure sign of old age. Babies and young children live in
the present, the 'now.' Mature adults tend to live in the future.
Only the senile live in the past . . and that was the sign that
made me realize that I had lived long enough, when I found I was
spending more and more time time thinking about the past . . less
of it thinking about now - and not at all about the future."
The Hollywood treatment of _Bid Time Return_ uses poetic license to
alter the book that Richard Collier reads to explore time travel. In
the novel Collier reads Priestley's _Man and Time_. In the movie Collier
reads a fictitious book named _Travels Through Time_ by G. Finney.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NavE53C12e4
Thank you,
--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
in flight. - Yeats
Greg Goss
Aug 27, 2016, 11:48:18 AM8/27/16
to
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The word 'small' is used. Deal with it.
>>
>Are you drinkin Drano or something? That's *exactly* what I asked
>for. "photo that includes teh smell."
Look up the word "exactly". You didn't ask for "smell". You asked
>> The word 'small' is used. Deal with it.
>>
>Are you drinkin Drano or something? That's *exactly* what I asked
>for. "photo that includes teh smell."
for something very close to that, but not exactly.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Greg Goss
Aug 27, 2016, 11:49:38 AM8/27/16
to
>Dude, when *Brian* says you're full of shit, and that I'm right,
Not "full" of shit. Just an inch or so, or even scattered piles.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Aug 28, 2016, 3:03:23 AM8/28/16
to
Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote in news:e2dr1uFoig8U1
@mid.individual.net:
> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> The word 'small' is used. Deal with it.
>>>
>>Are you drinkin Drano or something? That's *exactly* what I asked
>>for. "photo that includes teh smell."
>
> Look up the word "exactly". You didn't ask for "smell". You asked
> for something very close to that, but not exactly.
Spelling flames because he's too fucking childish to admit he said
something stupid is even more childish.
--
Terry Austin
@mid.individual.net:
> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> The word 'small' is used. Deal with it.
>>>
>>Are you drinkin Drano or something? That's *exactly* what I asked
>>for. "photo that includes teh smell."
>
> Look up the word "exactly". You didn't ask for "smell". You asked
> for something very close to that, but not exactly.
something stupid is even more childish.
--
Terry Austin
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Aug 28, 2016, 3:03:57 AM8/28/16
to
Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote in news:e2dr4fFoig8U2
@mid.individual.net:
> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Dude, when *Brian* says you're full of shit, and that I'm right,
>
> Not "full" of shit. Just an inch or so, or even scattered piles.
My point remains, utterly unchallenged.
You feeling lonely or something?
--
Terry Austin
@mid.individual.net:
> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Dude, when *Brian* says you're full of shit, and that I'm right,
>
> Not "full" of shit. Just an inch or so, or even scattered piles.
You feeling lonely or something?
--
Terry Austin
Greg Goss
Aug 28, 2016, 4:32:37 AM8/28/16
to
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote in news:e2dr4fFoig8U2
>@mid.individual.net:
>
>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Dude, when *Brian* says you're full of shit, and that I'm right,
>>
>> Not "full" of shit. Just an inch or so, or even scattered piles.
>
>My point remains, utterly unchallenged.
>
>You feeling lonely or something?
It's rare for Terry to miss a punch line.
>Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote in news:e2dr4fFoig8U2
>@mid.individual.net:
>
>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Dude, when *Brian* says you're full of shit, and that I'm right,
>>
>> Not "full" of shit. Just an inch or so, or even scattered piles.
>
>My point remains, utterly unchallenged.
>
>You feeling lonely or something?
Greg Goss
Aug 28, 2016, 5:49:27 PM8/28/16
to
Kevrob
Aug 28, 2016, 8:51:56 PM8/28/16
to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitestone,_Queens
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumbo,_Brooklyn
Kevin R
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