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Buckle-Up for Safety
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peterw...@hotmail.com
Jun 21, 2017, 9:20:02 PM6/21/17
to
In Robert Heinlein’s _The Puppet Masters_, agent Sam Nivens is sent into Zone
Red, the part of the United States controlled by parasitic alien “slugs”, for a
quick recon before a planned attack to seize communication facilities. Sam
finds that the slugs are vastly more numerous than estimated, contrives to
get one of the slug-controlled humans alone, kills the slug, and attempts to escape
with the freed host for interrogation:
A limp man is amazingly hard to lift; it took me longer to get him up and
across my shoulders than it had to silence him. He was heavy. Fortunately
I am a big husky, all hands and feet; I managed a lumbering dog trot toward
the car. I doubt if the noise of our fight disturbed anyone but my victim’s
wife, but her screams must have aroused half that end of town. There were
people popping out of doors on both sides of the street. So far, none of
them was near, but I was glad to see that I had left the car door open.
I hurried toward it.
Then, I was sorry; a brat who looked like the twin of the one who had given me
trouble earlier was inside fiddling with the controls. Cursing, I dumped my
prisoner in the lounge circle and grabbed at the kid. The boy shrank back
and struggled, but I tore him loose and threw him out-straight into the
arms of the first of my pursuers.
That saved me. He was still untangling himself as I slammed into the driver’s
seat and shot forward without bothering with door or safety belt. As I took
the first corner the door swung shut and I almost went out of my seat; I then
held a straight course long enough to fasten the belt. I cut sharp on another
corner, nearly ran down a ground car coming out and went on.
I found the wide boulevard I needed-the Paseo, I think-and jabbed the
take-off key. Possibly I caused several wrecks; I had no time to worry about it.
Without waiting to reach altitude I wrestled her to course east and continued
to climb as I made easting. I kept her on manual as I crossed Missouri and
expended every launching unit in her racks to give her more speed. That
reckless and illegal action may have saved my neck; somewhere over
Columbia, just as I fired the last one, I felt the car shake to concussion.
Someone had launched an interceptor, a devil-chaser would be my
guess-and the pesky thing had fused where I had just been.
I find it interesting that Heinlein expresses the uncomfortable feeling that I
get from being in a moving car without my seat belt fastened, even though
seat belts were not even standard in American cars for more than a decade
after the story was published. Granted, it was a flying car, but note that
Sam is almost thrown out of his seat due to sharp turn while still on the
ground. I recall that my family’s 1961 Ford Falcon did not have seat belts
when we first got it.
I found with a brief Google search that a seat belt was used in 1849 for
George Cayley’s glider, Wilbur Wright used a seat belt in their 1908
airplane, and that Barney Oldfield used a safety harness in the 1922
Indianapolis 500. By the 1950s many people, for example neurologist
C. Hunter Shelden, were advocating seat belts for private automobiles.
The Sports Car Club of America required them for competitors in
1954, and they were available as an option for Ford and Buick in 1956.
Nils Brolin invented the three-point seat and shoulder belt for Volvo,
and they became standard equipment for Volvo in 1959. Belts became
required in new cars in all states by 1965.
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
Red, the part of the United States controlled by parasitic alien “slugs”, for a
quick recon before a planned attack to seize communication facilities. Sam
finds that the slugs are vastly more numerous than estimated, contrives to
get one of the slug-controlled humans alone, kills the slug, and attempts to escape
with the freed host for interrogation:
A limp man is amazingly hard to lift; it took me longer to get him up and
across my shoulders than it had to silence him. He was heavy. Fortunately
I am a big husky, all hands and feet; I managed a lumbering dog trot toward
the car. I doubt if the noise of our fight disturbed anyone but my victim’s
wife, but her screams must have aroused half that end of town. There were
people popping out of doors on both sides of the street. So far, none of
them was near, but I was glad to see that I had left the car door open.
I hurried toward it.
Then, I was sorry; a brat who looked like the twin of the one who had given me
trouble earlier was inside fiddling with the controls. Cursing, I dumped my
prisoner in the lounge circle and grabbed at the kid. The boy shrank back
and struggled, but I tore him loose and threw him out-straight into the
arms of the first of my pursuers.
That saved me. He was still untangling himself as I slammed into the driver’s
seat and shot forward without bothering with door or safety belt. As I took
the first corner the door swung shut and I almost went out of my seat; I then
held a straight course long enough to fasten the belt. I cut sharp on another
corner, nearly ran down a ground car coming out and went on.
I found the wide boulevard I needed-the Paseo, I think-and jabbed the
take-off key. Possibly I caused several wrecks; I had no time to worry about it.
Without waiting to reach altitude I wrestled her to course east and continued
to climb as I made easting. I kept her on manual as I crossed Missouri and
expended every launching unit in her racks to give her more speed. That
reckless and illegal action may have saved my neck; somewhere over
Columbia, just as I fired the last one, I felt the car shake to concussion.
Someone had launched an interceptor, a devil-chaser would be my
guess-and the pesky thing had fused where I had just been.
I find it interesting that Heinlein expresses the uncomfortable feeling that I
get from being in a moving car without my seat belt fastened, even though
seat belts were not even standard in American cars for more than a decade
after the story was published. Granted, it was a flying car, but note that
Sam is almost thrown out of his seat due to sharp turn while still on the
ground. I recall that my family’s 1961 Ford Falcon did not have seat belts
when we first got it.
I found with a brief Google search that a seat belt was used in 1849 for
George Cayley’s glider, Wilbur Wright used a seat belt in their 1908
airplane, and that Barney Oldfield used a safety harness in the 1922
Indianapolis 500. By the 1950s many people, for example neurologist
C. Hunter Shelden, were advocating seat belts for private automobiles.
The Sports Car Club of America required them for competitors in
1954, and they were available as an option for Ford and Buick in 1956.
Nils Brolin invented the three-point seat and shoulder belt for Volvo,
and they became standard equipment for Volvo in 1959. Belts became
required in new cars in all states by 1965.
Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
Kevrob
Jun 22, 2017, 1:38:39 PM6/22/17
to
On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 at 9:20:02 PM UTC-4, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
>
These guys were:
>
> Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq3cQVrnaWs
..and this duo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeOCs3hRjlE
Kevin R
Lynn McGuire
Jun 22, 2017, 2:40:13 PM6/22/17
to
On 6/21/2017 8:19 PM, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
...
??? Ford station wagon. We also installed rear seat belts. He had to
buy the front shoulder seat belts and the rear seat belts from the Ford
dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the seat
belts in.
Lynn
...
> Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
>
> Peter Wezeman
> anti-social Darwinist
I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front seats of our 1965
>
> Peter Wezeman
> anti-social Darwinist
??? Ford station wagon. We also installed rear seat belts. He had to
buy the front shoulder seat belts and the rear seat belts from the Ford
dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the seat
belts in.
Lynn
Greg Goss
Jun 23, 2017, 9:24:38 AM6/23/17
to
back seat belts into existing bolt holes.
I'm surprised to see the anchor points for shoulder belts as early as
65.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
James Nicoll
Jun 23, 2017, 9:39:36 AM6/23/17
to
In article <er4j4j...@mid.individual.net>,
Like all sensible engineers, my dad preferred to use the windshield to
bring him to a halt in car crashes. I don't think any of our cars had
seat belts until it was manditory and I know we weren't that diligent
about using them. In the case of my brother's car crash, that saved his
life (t-boned at high speed) but while I broke my seat belt in my wreck,
I think it probably did reduce the injuries. My dad, who was wearing his,
walked away with a small cut on his finger.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Livejournal at http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
bring him to a halt in car crashes. I don't think any of our cars had
seat belts until it was manditory and I know we weren't that diligent
about using them. In the case of my brother's car crash, that saved his
life (t-boned at high speed) but while I broke my seat belt in my wreck,
I think it probably did reduce the injuries. My dad, who was wearing his,
walked away with a small cut on his finger.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Livejournal at http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Lynn McGuire
Jun 23, 2017, 2:05:58 PM6/23/17
to
1971. My dad was driving the Ford station wagon that Mom's Dad gave us.
Dad put back seat belts and shoulder belts into that car also.
The young lady driving the other car drifted off the road on the curve
onto the shoulder gravel and jerked her car back on the road, crossing
the white line and right into us. The young lady and her mother were
not wearing seat belts. She survived with broken collar bone. Her
mother flew out of the vehicle and was between the two vehicles when we
hit for the second time (the two vehicles rotated around each other and
hit twice). Her mother did not survive since 60% of the bones in her
body were broken.
Mom, Dad, me, and my two brothers were all wearing seat belts. My
middle brother had slipped down and had his seat belt over his stomach.
A vein was ripped loose from his stomach and surgically repaired. My
right leg was under the front seat which collapsed in the wreck and
broke my leg in two places. Other than that, we were fine.
I religiously wear seat belts now and force everyone in the vehicles
that I am riding with to wear theirs.
Lynn
Robert Carnegie
Jun 23, 2017, 6:26:21 PM6/23/17
to
Connoisseurs, fetishists, survivalists, and
flying-vehicle enthusiasts appreciate a five-point
harness or greater. I wonder if Heinlein's air car
has a three-pointer or a lap belt. Lap belts are
for stoics.
flying-vehicle enthusiasts appreciate a five-point
harness or greater. I wonder if Heinlein's air car
has a three-pointer or a lap belt. Lap belts are
for stoics.
peterw...@hotmail.com
Jun 23, 2017, 8:52:06 PM6/23/17
to
center-buckle type, although Volvo had already invented the current
three-point combination seat and shoulder belts with side buckle
and made them standard equipment in 1959. The first American
diagonal shoulder belts were separate from the seat belts.
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
peterw...@hotmail.com
Jun 23, 2017, 8:56:19 PM6/23/17
to
parking lots and such places with mechanics and equipment; people
could drive their cars onto the portable ramps and have belts
installed while they waited.
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
Cryptoengineer
Jun 23, 2017, 10:54:56 PM6/23/17
to
Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in news:f800ee1a-bf98-47e7-
a68d-3cb...@googlegroups.com:
I recall that in 'I Will Fear No Evil', there's a scene
where the Heinlein stand-in is instructing the
younger characters to buckle up, including a head restraint
against foreward and backward whiplash.
pt
a68d-3cb...@googlegroups.com:
where the Heinlein stand-in is instructing the
younger characters to buckle up, including a head restraint
against foreward and backward whiplash.
pt
Steve Coltrin
Jun 24, 2017, 2:23:41 AM6/24/17
to
begin fnord
--
Steve Coltrin spco...@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press
Cryptoengineer <treif...@gmail.com> writes:
> I recall that in 'I Will Fear No Evil', there's a scene
> where the Heinlein stand-in is instructing the
> younger characters to buckle up, including a head restraint
> against foreward and backward whiplash.
That exists in automotive racing.
> I recall that in 'I Will Fear No Evil', there's a scene
> where the Heinlein stand-in is instructing the
> younger characters to buckle up, including a head restraint
> against foreward and backward whiplash.
--
Steve Coltrin spco...@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press
J. Clarke
Jun 24, 2017, 8:23:20 AM6/24/17
to
In article <m2tw355...@kelutral.omcl.org>, spco...@omcl.org says...
turret and there was reference to a "slam stop", which while not described,
might very well involve Juice. Seems a reasonable precaution.
>
> begin fnord
> Cryptoengineer <treif...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > I recall that in 'I Will Fear No Evil', there's a scene
> > where the Heinlein stand-in is instructing the
> > younger characters to buckle up, including a head restraint
> > against foreward and backward whiplash.
>
> That exists in automotive racing.
Note that they are riding in a nuclear powered armored vehicle with a roof
> begin fnord
> Cryptoengineer <treif...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > I recall that in 'I Will Fear No Evil', there's a scene
> > where the Heinlein stand-in is instructing the
> > younger characters to buckle up, including a head restraint
> > against foreward and backward whiplash.
>
> That exists in automotive racing.
turret and there was reference to a "slam stop", which while not described,
might very well involve Juice. Seems a reasonable precaution.
Robert Bannister
Jun 25, 2017, 9:44:31 PM6/25/17
to
made so you can move about slowly, I find it more comfortable wearing
one than not. I'm glad we don't have to wear a full harness like pilots.
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
Anthony Nance
Jun 26, 2017, 9:13:38 AM6/26/17
to
- Tony
Lynn McGuire
Jun 27, 2017, 4:20:23 PM6/27/17
to
Lynn
J. Clarke
Jun 27, 2017, 4:59:02 PM6/27/17
to
In article <oiuef2$ndi$1...@dont-email.me>, lynnmc...@gmail.com says...
Anyone who thinks that "pilots wear full harness" has never been in a
civilian light airplane. It's usually the same lap and shoulder deal you
have in a car.
civilian light airplane. It's usually the same lap and shoulder deal you
have in a car.
Dimensional Traveler
Jun 27, 2017, 5:44:35 PM6/27/17
to
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Jun 27, 2017, 5:45:51 PM6/27/17
to
"J. Clarke" <j.clark...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:MPG.33bc910fd...@news.eternal-september.org:
Only military pilots wear the full harness, and I suspect that has
more to do with ejection seats than crashes (which would be
guarnteed fatal if the pilot is still on board).
A better comparison is the sort of five point restraint systems
worn by race car drivers, which generally, these days, also include
head restraints to avoid neck damage as the car rolls over (and
over and over and over) at 200 mph.
--
Terry Austin
Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
news:MPG.33bc910fd...@news.eternal-september.org:
more to do with ejection seats than crashes (which would be
guarnteed fatal if the pilot is still on board).
A better comparison is the sort of five point restraint systems
worn by race car drivers, which generally, these days, also include
head restraints to avoid neck damage as the car rolls over (and
over and over and over) at 200 mph.
--
Terry Austin
Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Jun 27, 2017, 5:52:09 PM6/27/17
to
Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote in
news:oiujcu$7gb$1...@dont-email.me:
NASCAR thinks so. Well, knows so from bitter experience. HANS
doesn't look overly practical for real world driving, though.
news:oiujcu$7gb$1...@dont-email.me:
doesn't look overly practical for real world driving, though.
Robert Carnegie
Jun 27, 2017, 7:11:53 PM6/27/17
to
I think it was TV show _Captain Scarlet and
the Mysterons_ that had a design of truck
where the driver sat backwards and viewed
where they were going on closed-circuit
television.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Jun 27, 2017, 7:47:02 PM6/27/17
to
Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in
news:b3eca4d4-ea48-4c4a...@googlegroups.com:
these days.
Of course, it'd be even safer yet to set that VR stuff up in the
club house and remote control the car.
Safety isn't really the top issue.
I wonder if NASCAR actually requires the driver to be *in* the car.
John Dallman
Jun 27, 2017, 7:54:15 PM6/27/17
to
In article <b3eca4d4-ea48-4c4a...@googlegroups.com>,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_Pursuit_Vehicle
John
rja.ca...@excite.com (Robert Carnegie) wrote:
> I think it was TV show _Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons_ that had
> a design of truck where the driver sat backwards and viewed where
> they were going on closed-circuit television.
Not exactly a truck - a kind of high-speed armoured fighting vehicle.
> I think it was TV show _Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons_ that had
> a design of truck where the driver sat backwards and viewed where
> they were going on closed-circuit television.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_Pursuit_Vehicle
John
J. Clarke
Jun 27, 2017, 8:57:11 PM6/27/17
to
In article <XnsA7A1962E8E7...@69.16.179.43>, taus...@gmail.com
says...
Acro pilots wear full harness too. Has to do with being able to maintain
control of the airplane while engaging in violent maneuvers including those
that involve negative gee.
says...
control of the airplane while engaging in violent maneuvers including those
that involve negative gee.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Jun 27, 2017, 9:43:39 PM6/27/17
to
"J. Clarke" <j.clark...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:MPG.33bcc8ee9...@news.eternal-september.org:
have already *lost* control. It's an exact analogy to any other car
that has lost control.
Robert Bannister
Jun 28, 2017, 10:13:55 PM6/28/17
to
Robert Bannister
Jun 28, 2017, 10:16:01 PM6/28/17
to
friend's plane, but back then, it was a full harness for both. How does
lap and shoulder work in a roofless cockpit when flying upside down?
Joe Pfeiffer
Jun 28, 2017, 11:03:07 PM6/28/17
to
capable of it in some technical sense), I imagine the requirements are
somewhat different.
D B Davis
Jun 29, 2017, 1:16:21 AM6/29/17
to
of one flying upside down:
http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/Bellanca-Citabria/IMAGES/bellanca-citabria-title.jpg
They don't want you to fall out of your seat when you're upside down.
Here's a photo of a Citabria's seat belts (harness):
http://www.weekendcfii.com/photos/citabria/03X_belts.jpg
BTW, the time seems ripe for me to re-invent myself and join the ranks
of Ahasuerus, Butch Malahide, Seawasp, and others. So this is the very
first post under my new nom de plume for rasw. Daniel Boone Davis is the
protagonist in my favorite sf story, _The Door Into Summer_ (RAH).
Thank you,
--
Don
J. Clarke
Jun 29, 2017, 4:54:20 AM6/29/17
to
In article <erj66t...@mid.individual.net>,
robertb...@iprimus.com.au says...
If he's flying upside down then it's certificated in the "Aerobatic" class
which has different requirements. Most light aircraft today are not open
cockpit and are certificated in the "Standard" class, which is not rated
for inverted flight or any kind of aerobatic maneuver.
robertb...@iprimus.com.au says...
which has different requirements. Most light aircraft today are not open
cockpit and are certificated in the "Standard" class, which is not rated
for inverted flight or any kind of aerobatic maneuver.
J. Clarke
Jun 29, 2017, 4:57:20 AM6/29/17
to
In article <2017...@crcomp.net>, g...@crcomp.net says...
The same is true of the Cessna 150 Aerobat.
However neither is your standard light airplane.
Yes, you can find light airplanes with full harness, including standard
class where the owner decided to have it retrofitted for whatever reason.
But it's not what you normally expect when you rent a plane at your local
FBO.
However neither is your standard light airplane.
Yes, you can find light airplanes with full harness, including standard
class where the owner decided to have it retrofitted for whatever reason.
But it's not what you normally expect when you rent a plane at your local
FBO.
Default User
Jun 29, 2017, 10:41:10 AM6/29/17
to
On Thursday, June 29, 2017 at 3:57:20 AM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
> Yes, you can find light airplanes with full harness, including standard
> class where the owner decided to have it retrofitted for whatever reason.
> But it's not what you normally expect when you rent a plane at your local
> FBO.
That's my recollection. I have a friend who has a pilot's license, and in our younger days he would rent Cessna 172s and we would fly around the area.
> Yes, you can find light airplanes with full harness, including standard
> class where the owner decided to have it retrofitted for whatever reason.
> But it's not what you normally expect when you rent a plane at your local
> FBO.
Brian
Michael F. Stemper
Jun 29, 2017, 10:55:00 AM6/29/17
to
would handicap the driver.
--
Michael F. Stemper
Deuteronomy 24:17
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Jun 29, 2017, 11:51:21 AM6/29/17
to
"Michael F. Stemper" <michael...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:oj344u$tv6$1...@dont-email.me:
Only until they got used to it. Or started hiring video game
wizards to drive the cars. That the cars can now exceed the
physicial limitations of the driver would allow for improved
performance, too. Kinda how the X-1 was only designed to withstand
so many g's, because more than that, the pilot would be dead
anyway.
news:oj344u$tv6$1...@dont-email.me:
wizards to drive the cars. That the cars can now exceed the
physicial limitations of the driver would allow for improved
performance, too. Kinda how the X-1 was only designed to withstand
so many g's, because more than that, the pilot would be dead
anyway.
Moriarty
Jun 29, 2017, 6:07:28 PM6/29/17
to
-Moriarty
Robert Bannister
Jun 29, 2017, 8:35:55 PM6/29/17
to
J. Clarke
Jun 29, 2017, 10:22:36 PM6/29/17
to
In article <erlkn6...@mid.individual.net>,
robertb...@iprimus.com.au says...
Open cockpit with aerobatic capability hasn't been the norm for civilian
aircraft since some time in the late '30s.
robertb...@iprimus.com.au says...
aircraft since some time in the late '30s.
Gene Wirchenko
Jun 29, 2017, 10:53:35 PM6/29/17
to
On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 10:13:49 +0800, Robert Bannister
<robertb...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
>On 28/6/17 4:20 am, Lynn McGuire wrote:
[snip]
<robertb...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
>On 28/6/17 4:20 am, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> Would the full harness be safer ?
>
>So I have read. Especially if you perform loop the loop a lot.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Jerry Brown
Jun 30, 2017, 1:31:28 PM6/30/17
to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEByl5TU3As.
The plane dates from 1943.
--
Jerry Brown
A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
Michael F. Stemper
Jun 30, 2017, 2:19:25 PM6/30/17
to
previously familiar. Thirty years into powered aviation, over
seventy years ago, ...
Also, one instance of something isn't quite the same as "the norm".
--
Michael F. Stemper
87.3% of all statistics are made up by the person giving them.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Jun 30, 2017, 2:39:09 PM6/30/17
to
"Michael F. Stemper" <michael...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:oj64g7$9tn$1...@dont-email.me:
> On 2017-06-30 12:31, Jerry Brown wrote:
>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 22:22:27 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>> <j.clark...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Open cockpit with aerobatic capability hasn't been the norm
>>> for civilian aircraft since some time in the late '30s.
>>
>> Here's a recent counter example:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEByl5TU3As.
>>
>> The plane dates from 1943.
>
> This is obviously some definition of "recent" with which I was
> not previously familiar. Thirty years into powered aviation,
> over seventy years ago, ...
>
> Also, one instance of something isn't quite the same as "the
> norm".
>
And given that it was about wingwalking, it's pretty definitely *not*
> Also, one instance of something isn't quite the same as "the
> norm".
>
a normal civilian aircraft.
This thread is covered with stupid.
Jerry Brown
Jun 30, 2017, 2:44:50 PM6/30/17
to
On Fri, 30 Jun 2017 11:39:07 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
<taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>"Michael F. Stemper" <michael...@gmail.com> wrote in
>news:oj64g7$9tn$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 2017-06-30 12:31, Jerry Brown wrote:
>>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 22:22:27 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>>> <j.clark...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Open cockpit with aerobatic capability hasn't been the norm
>>>> for civilian aircraft since some time in the late '30s.
>>>
>>> Here's a recent counter example:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEByl5TU3As.
>>>
>>> The plane dates from 1943.
>>
>> This is obviously some definition of "recent" with which I was
>> not previously familiar. Thirty years into powered aviation,
>> over seventy years ago, ...
The clip is from about 5 years ago. It's the plane which is from 1943.
<taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>"Michael F. Stemper" <michael...@gmail.com> wrote in
>news:oj64g7$9tn$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 2017-06-30 12:31, Jerry Brown wrote:
>>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 22:22:27 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>>> <j.clark...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Open cockpit with aerobatic capability hasn't been the norm
>>>> for civilian aircraft since some time in the late '30s.
>>>
>>> Here's a recent counter example:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEByl5TU3As.
>>>
>>> The plane dates from 1943.
>>
>> This is obviously some definition of "recent" with which I was
>> not previously familiar. Thirty years into powered aviation,
>> over seventy years ago, ...
>It's more recent than the "last 30s" that Clarke was babbling about.
>>
>> Also, one instance of something isn't quite the same as "the
>> norm".
>>
>And given that it was about wingwalking, it's pretty definitely *not*
>a normal civilian aircraft.
>
>This thread is covered with stupid.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Jun 30, 2017, 4:01:13 PM6/30/17
to
Jerry Brown <je...@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> wrote in
news:uq6dlcte646kn7avm...@jwbrown.co.uk:
> On Fri, 30 Jun 2017 11:39:07 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying
> Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"Michael F. Stemper" <michael...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>news:oj64g7$9tn$1...@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 2017-06-30 12:31, Jerry Brown wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 22:22:27 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>>>> <j.clark...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Open cockpit with aerobatic capability hasn't been the norm
>>>>> for civilian aircraft since some time in the late '30s.
>>>>
>>>> Here's a recent counter example:
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEByl5TU3As.
>>>>
>>>> The plane dates from 1943.
>>>
>>> This is obviously some definition of "recent" with which I was
>>> not previously familiar. Thirty years into powered aviation,
>>> over seventy years ago, ...
>
> The clip is from about 5 years ago. It's the plane which is from
> 1943.
The conversation was about airplane design. Not video clips. Try to
pay attention.
"norm" part. Technically, SpaceShipOne is a civilian aircraft, but
it's hardly the norm.
news:uq6dlcte646kn7avm...@jwbrown.co.uk:
> On Fri, 30 Jun 2017 11:39:07 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying
> Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"Michael F. Stemper" <michael...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>news:oj64g7$9tn$1...@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 2017-06-30 12:31, Jerry Brown wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 22:22:27 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>>>> <j.clark...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Open cockpit with aerobatic capability hasn't been the norm
>>>>> for civilian aircraft since some time in the late '30s.
>>>>
>>>> Here's a recent counter example:
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEByl5TU3As.
>>>>
>>>> The plane dates from 1943.
>>>
>>> This is obviously some definition of "recent" with which I was
>>> not previously familiar. Thirty years into powered aviation,
>>> over seventy years ago, ...
>
> The clip is from about 5 years ago. It's the plane which is from
> 1943.
pay attention.
>
>>It's more recent than the "last 30s" that Clarke was babbling
>>about.
>>>
>>> Also, one instance of something isn't quite the same as "the
>>> norm".
>>>
>>And given that it was about wingwalking, it's pretty definitely
>>*not* a normal civilian aircraft.
>>
>>This thread is covered with stupid.
>
> Mea culpa. I took "civilian" to mean anything non-military.
>
It's not the "civilian" part you're clueless about, it's the
>>It's more recent than the "last 30s" that Clarke was babbling
>>about.
>>>
>>> Also, one instance of something isn't quite the same as "the
>>> norm".
>>>
>>And given that it was about wingwalking, it's pretty definitely
>>*not* a normal civilian aircraft.
>>
>>This thread is covered with stupid.
>
> Mea culpa. I took "civilian" to mean anything non-military.
>
"norm" part. Technically, SpaceShipOne is a civilian aircraft, but
it's hardly the norm.
J. Clarke
Jun 30, 2017, 7:36:26 PM6/30/17
to
In article <uq6dlcte646kn7avm...@jwbrown.co.uk>,
je...@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid says...
By your logic open cockpit biplanes are _still_ "the norm" because it's
possible to buy one new today.
je...@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid says...
possible to buy one new today.
Robert Bannister
Jun 30, 2017, 9:17:46 PM6/30/17
to
On 1/7/17 2:19 am, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> On 2017-06-30 12:31, Jerry Brown wrote:
>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 22:22:27 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>> <j.clark...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Open cockpit with aerobatic capability hasn't been the norm for civilian
>>> aircraft since some time in the late '30s.
>>
>> Here's a recent counter example:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEByl5TU3As.
>>
>> The plane dates from 1943.
>
> This is obviously some definition of "recent" with which I was not
> previously familiar. Thirty years into powered aviation, over
> seventy years ago, ...
>
> Also, one instance of something isn't quite the same as "the norm".
>
Most planes have a very long life so long as they are maintained.
> On 2017-06-30 12:31, Jerry Brown wrote:
>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 22:22:27 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>> <j.clark...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Open cockpit with aerobatic capability hasn't been the norm for civilian
>>> aircraft since some time in the late '30s.
>>
>> Here's a recent counter example:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEByl5TU3As.
>>
>> The plane dates from 1943.
>
> This is obviously some definition of "recent" with which I was not
> previously familiar. Thirty years into powered aviation, over
> seventy years ago, ...
>
> Also, one instance of something isn't quite the same as "the norm".
>
John F. Eldredge
Aug 29, 2017, 7:55:28 PM8/29/17
to
On Thu, 22 Jun 2017 13:40:07 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 6/21/2017 8:19 PM, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
> ...
>> Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
>>
>> Peter Wezeman anti-social Darwinist
>
> I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front seats of our 1965
> ??? Ford station wagon. We also installed rear seat belts. He had to
> buy the front shoulder seat belts and the rear seat belts from the Ford
> dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the seat
> belts in.
>
> Lynn
> On 6/21/2017 8:19 PM, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
> ...
>> Is Heinlein known to have been a seat belt advocate in the 1950s?
>>
>> Peter Wezeman anti-social Darwinist
>
> I helped my Dad install shoulder belts on the front seats of our 1965
> ??? Ford station wagon. We also installed rear seat belts. He had to
> buy the front shoulder seat belts and the rear seat belts from the Ford
> dealer. The bolt holes were already there, we just had to bolt the seat
> belts in.
>
My first car, a 1963 Chevy Nova, which I purchased second-hand in the
1970s, had Ford-branded seat belts. Apparently they had been added after
the fact by the owner.
Greg Goss
Aug 30, 2017, 3:47:25 AM8/30/17
to
seventies. But Ford and Mazda cross-build lots of stuff.
In the early eighties I was dating a single mother, and installed a
middle seat belt for the bench seat of my pickup. I bought some
random lap belt from a wrecker and threaded the bolts for the driver's
right and passenger's left through the anchors of the belts. Remember
bench seats?
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Kevrob
Aug 30, 2017, 5:11:42 AM8/30/17
to
and rear bench seats. You could fit 2 adults and 9 kids
in a 1960s era Chevrolet wagon, 3-4-4, if you made sure the
back seat was full of the youngest ones.
Sometimes, after a trip to the city or a day at the beach, my Dad
would put the back seat down and let the littlest ones stretch out
for a nap on the ride home.
Kevin R
Kevin R
Peter Trei
Aug 30, 2017, 9:10:45 AM8/30/17
to
the forgotten experiences of childhood.
We did it so often that my father cut a matching sheet of foam rubber as
a cushion, and we'd sleep in the back on the way back from an outing.
pt
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Aug 30, 2017, 9:35:06 AM8/30/17
to
In article <703644a0-a23b-41da...@googlegroups.com>,
My parents had a piece of plywood they would lay over the back bench
seat. Misc packed items under it would support it over the leg space.
With some quilts on it, it was a teriffic play area on those long
pre-Interstate trips to Florida. We would also sleep on the back window
deck. I'm sure today there are statistically fewer deaths, but you have
to wonder how the general sucking the life out of things balances in the end.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
seat. Misc packed items under it would support it over the leg space.
With some quilts on it, it was a teriffic play area on those long
pre-Interstate trips to Florida. We would also sleep on the back window
deck. I'm sure today there are statistically fewer deaths, but you have
to wonder how the general sucking the life out of things balances in the end.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Peter Trei
Aug 30, 2017, 10:15:30 AM8/30/17
to
US auto fatalities pet billion vehicle miles:
1965: 5.30
2015: 1.12
The fraction of Americans who die in car accidents each year has also
fallen by about a factor of 2.5
OTOH, reducing an already low number to an even lower one doesn't make
much of a change.
Data from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year
pt
Default User
Aug 30, 2017, 10:50:32 AM8/30/17
to
On Wednesday, August 30, 2017 at 2:47:25 AM UTC-5, Greg Goss wrote:
> Remember bench seats?
My 1995 Bronco has one in the front (all do in the back). I'd have preferred the captain's chair/console arrangement, but when you're buying used out of very limited inventory, you have to compromise sometimes.
Brian
> Remember bench seats?
My 1995 Bronco has one in the front (all do in the back). I'd have preferred the captain's chair/console arrangement, but when you're buying used out of very limited inventory, you have to compromise sometimes.
Brian
Kevrob
Aug 30, 2017, 11:03:27 AM8/30/17
to
seat. There are two "buckets," one on either side of a cushion that
divides the two. You can seat 2 across, but somebody has to "sit on
the hump." They fold down, and the gear for changing a tire is under
one of them. I rarely have passengers, and when I do it is usually
1 person riding "shotgun" in the other front seat. In pre-car-seat
days, you'd have been able to stuff 4 grammar school-sized kids in the
back seat, and several more in the "way back," with the spare tire.
Kevin R
Default User
Aug 30, 2017, 11:53:35 AM8/30/17
to
1. Operational for passengers
2. The back folded down, seat in place.
3. The seat unlatched from the floor and the whole thing rolled forward and over to give maximum cargo capacity.
Mine has been in position 2 for umpty years. The release latch is difficult to find.
Brian
Titus G
Aug 30, 2017, 4:31:22 PM8/30/17
to
(Not a bucker but a similar bucking arrangement.)
Default User
Aug 30, 2017, 6:19:52 PM8/30/17
to
On Wednesday, August 30, 2017 at 10:53:35 AM UTC-5, Default User wrote:
> The Bronco's backseat has three positions:
>
> 1. Operational for passengers
> 2. The back folded down, seat in place.
> 3. The seat unlatched from the floor and the whole thing rolled forward and over to give maximum cargo capacity.
Here is an image of these, even helpfully labeled as above:
> The Bronco's backseat has three positions:
>
> 1. Operational for passengers
> 2. The back folded down, seat in place.
> 3. The seat unlatched from the floor and the whole thing rolled forward and over to give maximum cargo capacity.
https://d1ovggn179d8ws.cloudfront.net/images/products/816/1027-1.JPG
Brian
David DeLaney
Sep 1, 2017, 1:01:00 AM9/1/17
to
On 2017-08-30, Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Riding loose in the back of a station wagon on long road trips is one of
> the forgotten experiences of childhood.
Oh yes. There was thr back seat, and then the 'way back', even without putting
> Riding loose in the back of a station wagon on long road trips is one of
> the forgotten experiences of childhood.
the back seat down (which did happen but infrequently).
It'a apparently not the same in an SUV, even without an overhead TV or
personalized A/C, etc.
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
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