Really happy novel

[Dirk van den Boom]

Recently I had a discussion with a friend who claimed that he only likes
novels which make him feel really happy, at least at the end. Novels,
where authors put a lot of effort in a glorious happy end, which puts a
smile on everyone's face.

While I found that somewhat limited, I decided not to argue anyone's
reading habits, but it lead me to a question: Which SF/F-novel would
pass the test of my friend's preferences? Immediately some Miles-novels
and some Liaden-stuff came into my mind, but then I stopped being
inspired. Any takers?


--
www.sf-boom-blog.de

[James Nicoll]

In article <brq3bh...@mid.individual.net>,

Hello Summer, Goodbye by the late Michael Coney? But only if you read
all the way to the end.

--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)

[Anthony Nance]

Dirk van den Boom <spam...@sf-boom.de> wrote:

I'll think more about this, but the one that quickly comes to mind is
_Bridge of Birds_ by Barry Hughart.

Tony

[James Silverton]

On 4/23/2014 11:13 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <brq3bh...@mid.individual.net>,
> Dirk van den Boom <spam...@sf-boom.de> wrote:
>> Recently I had a discussion with a friend who claimed that he only likes
>> novels which make him feel really happy, at least at the end. Novels,
>> where authors put a lot of effort in a glorious happy end, which puts a
>> smile on everyone's face.
>>
>> While I found that somewhat limited, I decided not to argue anyone's
>> reading habits, but it lead me to a question: Which SF/F-novel would
>> pass the test of my friend's preferences? Immediately some Miles-novels
>> and some Liaden-stuff came into my mind, but then I stopped being
>> inspired. Any takers?
>
> Hello Summer, Goodbye by the late Michael Coney? But only if you read
> all the way to the end.
>

Perhaps, James H. Schmitz' "The Witches of Karres", James Blish'
"Surface Tension" (tho' a short story) and I'm sure there are many more.

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.

[JRStern]

Isn't this true of most stories?

J.

[Chris Buckley]

When I'm in that kind of mood, I turn to books like _The Witches of Karres_.
Fantasy books that are at the YA/Adult boundary like _The Blue Sword_
or _The Hero and the Crown_ are also often re-read.

In a slightly different vein, comedies like Panshin's Villier's series
Williams' Majistral series have that type of ending (and again are often
re-read).

Chris

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <brq4r5...@mid.individual.net>,

Chris Buckley <al...@sabir.com> wrote:
>
>In a slightly different vein, comedies like Panshin's Villier's series
>Williams' Majistral series have that type of ending (and again are often
>re-read).

Yes. Are there any other books/series that fill that particular
niche, "gentleman who doesn't fit in IN SPACE" ? I seem to
recall reading somewhere that Williams said the Maijstral stuff
was much harder to write than what he usually writes (and which I
don't read).

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

[Dirk van den Boom]

Am 23.04.2014 17:33, schrieb JRStern:

>
> Isn't this true of most stories?

I know many stories with happy endings.
But I think I'm looking here for a special quality, a wonderful,
fantastic, exceptionally well drafted and developed happy ending. The
mother of happy endings.


--
www.sf-boom-blog.de

[Michael R N Dolbear]

"Dirk van den Boom" wrote in message
news:brq3bh...@mid.individual.net...

All the other Lois Bujold series as a series ?

And indeed all three 5G books.



--
Mike D

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <brq8if...@mid.individual.net>,

Dirk van den Boom <spam...@sf-boom.de> wrote:

"Can These Bones Live?" -- Ted Reynolds
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[Dirk van den Boom]

Am 23.04.2014 19:35, schrieb Ted Nolan <tednolan>:
> In article <brq8if...@mid.individual.net>,

>
> "Can These Bones Live?" -- Ted Reynolds
>

I'll check that one out, just out of curiosity.

--
www.sf-boom-blog.de

[Robert Carnegie]

James White's "Sector General" novels generally have
a feelgood ending. Maybe not always. On reflection,
his other books usually have a positive finish.

I think Douglas Adams's _Life, the Universe, and Everything_
ends quite happily.

I was absurdly touched by the last pages of Star Trek novel
_Prime Directive_, but getting there involves not only
terrible disaster, but quite a lot told as flashback.

Getting to a happy ending in those others usually involves
getting through some fairly terrible events, too.
Like Ursula K LeGuin's little verse for those mostly-depressing
Earthsea stories, the pain makes the good good;
<http://www.shmoop.com/wizard-of-earthsea/epigraph.html>

[Konrad Gaertner]

On 4/23/2014 10:08 AM, Dirk van den Boom wrote:
> Recently I had a discussion with a friend who claimed that he only likes
> novels which make him feel really happy, at least at the end. Novels,
> where authors put a lot of effort in a glorious happy end, which puts a
> smile on everyone's face.

I read LWE's Ethshar books when I want something happy, especially if I
just read something grimdark. Pratchett can be good for this too.


--
Konrad Gaertner - - - - - - - - - - - - email: kgae...@tx.rr.com
http://kgbooklog.livejournal.com/
"I don't mind hidden depths but I insist that there be a surface."
-- James Nicoll

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 13:56:15 -0500, Konrad Gaertner
<kgae...@tx.rr.com> wrote:

>On 4/23/2014 10:08 AM, Dirk van den Boom wrote:
>> Recently I had a discussion with a friend who claimed that he only likes
>> novels which make him feel really happy, at least at the end. Novels,
>> where authors put a lot of effort in a glorious happy end, which puts a
>> smile on everyone's face.

_Bridge of Birds_ was my first thought for a real happy ending, like
Anthony.

>I read LWE's Ethshar books when I want something happy, especially if I
>just read something grimdark.

The biggest pleasure in LWE's books is that the people in them are
sane and sensible by default. No idiot plots. It's just so soothing!

>Pratchett can be good for this too.

Nod. Again, very human (well... you know what I mean) positive
endings.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
Ambiguity Man Strikes Again! (...or /does/ he?)
-- Eric Schwartz, asr

[Jerry Brown]

Wil McCarthy's The Collapsium is one of my own comfort reads but NOT
the sequels.

--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

Others have mentioned _The Witches of Karres_, which fits. _Little
Fuzzy_ and the other two Fuzzy novels by H.Beam Piper. For me, Lord
Valentine's Castle makes me feel good at the end every time.

I try to write books that will leave you happy at the end, too.


--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com

[Brian M. Scott]

On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 17:08:30 +0200, Dirk van den Boom

<spam...@sf-boom.de> wrote in
<news:brq3bh...@mid.individual.net> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

> Recently I had a discussion with a friend who claimed that
> he only likes novels which make him feel really happy, at
> least at the end. Novels, where authors put a lot of
> effort in a glorious happy end, which puts a smile on
> everyone's face.

Not a customer for _Tentakel_, is he? <g>

> While I found that somewhat limited, I decided not to
> argue anyone's reading habits, but it lead me to a
> question: Which SF/F-novel would pass the test of my
> friend's preferences? Immediately some Miles-novels and
> some Liaden-stuff came into my mind, but then I stopped
> being inspired. Any takers?

Like others, I’ll mention _The Witches of Karres_ and
_Bridge of Birds, and I also agree with the suggestion of
Robin McKinley’s classic _The Blue Sword_. If he doesn’t
mind present-day fantasy, anything by Debora Geary (though
on the whole I do recommend reading them in order).

Brian
--
It was the neap tide, when the baga venture out of their
holes to root for sandtatties. The waves whispered
rhythmically over the packed sand: haggisss, haggisss,
haggisss.

[JRStern]

I'm not sure I know what that means. How would we rate, say, the
ending of (the original) Star Wars movie?

... end of "The Uplift War" is pretty good along very similar lines.

End of "Dune" has Paul Muad-dib Emperor of the Universe.

End of "Ringworld" goes home with everyone getting their just desserts
and alive beyond adventure and the odds.

Might be better to try to find novels that end on more of a down note
- but these days everyone leaves loose ends for the sequels and barely
have endings at all. "Norstrilia" ends in a complex and bittersweet
way.

J.

[Moriarty]

On Thursday, April 24, 2014 9:05:58 AM UTC+10, JRStern wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 18:37:31 +0200, Dirk van den Boom
>
> <spam...@sf-boom.de> wrote:
>
>
>
> >Am 23.04.2014 17:33, schrieb JRStern:
>
> >
>
> >>
>
> >> Isn't this true of most stories?
>
> >
>
> >I know many stories with happy endings.
>
> >But I think I'm looking here for a special quality, a wonderful,
>
> >fantastic, exceptionally well drafted and developed happy ending. The
>
> >mother of happy endings.
>
>
>
> I'm not sure I know what that means. How would we rate, say, the
>
> ending of (the original) Star Wars movie?
>
>
>
> ... end of "The Uplift War" is pretty good along very similar lines.
>
>
>
> End of "Dune" has Paul Muad-dib Emperor of the Universe.

With a genocide about to happen. Happy it aint.

Tolkien went out of his way to finish LOTR in a happy way. For the hobbits at least.

-Moriarty

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <1bhgl9ln9ef9ufu3d...@4ax.com>,

JRStern <JRS...@foobar.invalid> wrote:
>On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 18:37:31 +0200, Dirk van den Boom
><spam...@sf-boom.de> wrote:
>
>>Am 23.04.2014 17:33, schrieb JRStern:
>>
>>>
>>> Isn't this true of most stories?
>>
>>I know many stories with happy endings.
>>But I think I'm looking here for a special quality, a wonderful,
>>fantastic, exceptionally well drafted and developed happy ending. The
>>mother of happy endings.
>
>I'm not sure I know what that means. How would we rate, say, the
>ending of (the original) Star Wars movie?
>
>... end of "The Uplift War" is pretty good along very similar lines.
>
>End of "Dune" has Paul Muad-dib Emperor of the Universe.

Yes, and if it had only stopped there.

[lal_truckee]

On 4/23/14 8:08 AM, Dirk van den Boom wrote:

> Novels, where authors put a lot of effort in a glorious happy end, which
> puts a smile on everyone's face.

I've been watching this thread and pondering the SF subset of the
Heinlein juveniles for possible membership in classification.
I suggest Tunnel in the Sky suits very well.

In the conclusive scene Rod Walker has learned life's lesson, become a
man, achieved his youthful goals, and taken his place among his desired
peers, and is leading other men into the future and grand adventure.

Nominally that resolution pretty much defines the Heinlein juveniles,
but the others have various problems: for instance how do you factor in
John Thomas's getting his life's wishes and happiness granted, but
unbeknownst as breeding stock? Happy or no? From my memory review Rod
ends up with the least problematical baggage and the most promise of
happiness from this particular subset of SF.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <aee5c938-37c9-4deb...@googlegroups.com>,

Moriarty <blu...@ivillage.com> wrote:
>
>Tolkien went out of his way to finish LOTR in a happy way. For the
>hobbits at least.

Well, about as happy as it gets in Middle-earth.

I'll quote part of what Eric Walker says about LotR_ on his
website (http://greatsfandf.com/AUTHORS/JRRTolkien.php).

'This book is no childish "reward" tale: those who choose rightly
can, and often do--in life and in the tale--pay terrible prices;
the ills done by evil, even if that evil is eventually turned
aside for a time (there can be no "ultimate" defeat for evil),
are not undone by the turning aside. What is broken is broken;
who is dead is dead. That is in large part what gives the book
its power: the dangers, the pains, are very real. We cannot ever
think for a moment "ah, but it'll all come right somehow" or any
such puerile nonsense. The Lord of the Rings is a hard and
painful look at hard and painful things--at betrayal, sacrifice,
loss, at the costs of not giving up or giving in. Not one main
character in the book fails to undergo gut-wrenching losses by
tale's end. _Not one._'

The good guys win. Temporarily. Boromir dies. Denethor dies by
his own hand. Hama dies and is hacked to pieces by Orcs.
Gollum saves us all by falling into the Fire. Saruman's throat
is cut by Grima, who is himself immediately shot dead by hobbits.
Frodo is wounded, Bilbo is withered, and they can be healed only
by going to Valinor before they die. Aragorn eventually dies,
long before Arwen would have wished, and she goes alone* to empty
Lothlorien to die in her own time.

_____
*But the tale adds, "and there is her green grave," so she must
have taken some servants with her.

[David Johnston]

On 4/23/2014 5:40 PM, Moriarty wrote:

>
> With a genocide about to happen. Happy it aint.
>
> Tolkien went out of his way to finish LOTR in a happy way. For the hobbits at least.

I wouldn't call Frodo's finish happy. He's grouped with Eowyn and
Faramir as people who came back from the war permanently damaged.

[Robert Carnegie]

I figured those two would be okay, although both lost
people very close to them in the war.

Frodo's departure from the book certainly isn't happy, and
his companion's final homecoming is another of those points
where there is a catch in my breath and a tear in my eye.

[JRStern]

On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 16:40:00 -0700 (PDT), Moriarty
<blu...@ivillage.com> wrote:

>> >I know many stories with happy endings.
>> >But I think I'm looking here for a special quality, a wonderful,
>> >fantastic, exceptionally well drafted and developed happy ending. The
>> >mother of happy endings.
>>
>> I'm not sure I know what that means. How would we rate, say, the
>> ending of (the original) Star Wars movie?
...
>>

>> End of "Dune" has Paul Muad-dib Emperor of the Universe.
>
>With a genocide about to happen. Happy it aint.

Well, the genociders seemed happy enough.

Boy grows up, gets the girl, is emperor of the universe, still has his
mommy, gets even with the old witch, has a bunch of new friends and
big worms to ride around on, what could make it happier?

That's kind of the problem, is the only happy ending one where
everyone holds hands and sings kumbaya?

J.

[Brenda Clough]

On 4/23/2014 6:49 PM, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
> On 4/23/14 11:08 AM, Dirk van den Boom wrote:
>> Recently I had a discussion with a friend who claimed that he only likes
>> novels which make him feel really happy, at least at the end. Novels,
>> where authors put a lot of effort in a glorious happy end, which puts a
>> smile on everyone's face.
>>
>> While I found that somewhat limited, I decided not to argue anyone's
>> reading habits, but it lead me to a question: Which SF/F-novel would
>> pass the test of my friend's preferences? Immediately some Miles-novels
>> and some Liaden-stuff came into my mind, but then I stopped being
>> inspired. Any takers?
>>
>>
>
>
> Others have mentioned _The Witches of Karres_, which fits. _Little
> Fuzzy_ and the other two Fuzzy novels by H.Beam Piper. For me, Lord
> Valentine's Castle makes me feel good at the end every time.
>
> I try to write books that will leave you happy at the end, too.
>
>

So do I. Even if horrible things happen, there's always a silver lining.

Brenda

--
My latest novel SPEAK TO OUR DESIRES is available exclusively from Book
View Cafe.
http://www.bookviewcafe.com/index.php/Brenda-Clough/Novels/Speak-to-Our-Desires-Chapter-01

[David Mitchell]

On 23/04/14 16:08, Dirk van den Boom wrote:
> Recently I had a discussion with a friend who claimed that he only likes
> novels which make him feel really happy, at least at the end. Novels,
> where authors put a lot of effort in a glorious happy end, which puts a
> smile on everyone's face.
>
> While I found that somewhat limited, I decided not to argue anyone's
> reading habits, but it lead me to a question: Which SF/F-novel would
> pass the test of my friend's preferences? Immediately some Miles-novels
> and some Liaden-stuff came into my mind, but then I stopped being
> inspired. Any takers?

IIRC _The Anubis Gates_ ends unexpectedly well.

--
=======================================================================
= David --- If you use Microsoft products, you will, inevitably, get
= Mitchell --- viruses, so please don't add me to your address book.
=======================================================================

[William December Starr]

In article <tmpz7s7x6nqx$.l4du9tk4...@40tude.net>,

"Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu> said:

> Dirk van den Boom <spam...@sf-boom.de> wrote
>

>> Recently I had a discussion with a friend who claimed that
>> he only likes novels which make him feel really happy, at
>> least at the end. Novels, where authors put a lot of
>> effort in a glorious happy end, which puts a smile on
>> everyone's face.
>
> Not a customer for _Tentakel_, is he? <g>

[*]?

-- wds

[ppint. at pplay]

- hi; in article, <n4IEq...@kithrup.com>,
djh...@kithrup.com "Dorothy J Heydt" commented, and quoted:

- thank-you for quoting the passage; i'd not read it,
nor seen reference to it, before.

>
>*But the tale adds, "and there is her green grave," so she must
>have taken some servants with her.

- or, some elves of middle-earth remain - aside of the
elves who migrated thither and whose survivors and off-
spring eventually made the return - and chose to attend
her, whether until her time came, or only after that.
for, in a work that is inter alia, a classic romance, to
live without the love of one's life _is_ to live alone,
whoever else may be about one from time to time.

- whether such a life is or is not worth living, depends
upon the judgement of the individual concerned. sadly,
for some the prospect is or becomes intolerable; for
others, it is merely a coda, however long it proves to
last and whatever else one finds to do, that may be of
value to others.
for many more - most, one hopes - there are friends and
there is work both worth doing, and eventually once more
enjoyable; and there may be further companionship in life,
sooner or later - "who knows what tomorrow may bring?" -
but in the great love stories, it'd be heresy to suggest it.

- gollum, however, dies a truly happy death - does he not?

- love (it mayn't be a death i'd care to emulate), ppint.

[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
"but i believe the figure of one and one sixteenth
will be sufficiently accurate for poetry"
- charles babbage, writing to correct the second half of tennyson's line,
"every moment dies a man; every moment one is born"

[Dirk van den Boom]

Am 23.04.2014 20:56, schrieb Konrad Gaertner:
> On 4/23/2014 10:08 AM, Dirk van den Boom wrote:
>> Recently I had a discussion with a friend who claimed that he only likes
>> novels which make him feel really happy, at least at the end. Novels,
>> where authors put a lot of effort in a glorious happy end, which puts a
>> smile on everyone's face.
>
> I read LWE's Ethshar books when I want something happy, especially if I
> just read something grimdark. Pratchett can be good for this too.

I totally agree, that's why I like LWE's prose so much.


--
www.sf-boom-blog.de

[Dirk van den Boom]

Am 24.04.2014 00:49, schrieb Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor):

> Others have mentioned _The Witches of Karres_, which fits. _Little
> Fuzzy_ and the other two Fuzzy novels by H.Beam Piper. For me, Lord
> Valentine's Castle makes me feel good at the end every time.
>
> I try to write books that will leave you happy at the end, too.

That's why I give you my money for it :-)

--
www.sf-boom-blog.de

[Dirk van den Boom]

>> Recently I had a discussion with a friend who claimed that
>> he only likes novels which make him feel really happy, at
>> least at the end. Novels, where authors put a lot of
>> effort in a glorious happy end, which puts a smile on
>> everyone's face.
>
> Not a customer for _Tentakel_, is he? <g>

Obviously not :-)

>> While I found that somewhat limited, I decided not to
>> argue anyone's reading habits, but it lead me to a
>> question: Which SF/F-novel would pass the test of my
>> friend's preferences? Immediately some Miles-novels and
>> some Liaden-stuff came into my mind, but then I stopped
>> being inspired. Any takers?
>
> Like others, I’ll mention _The Witches of Karres_ and
> _Bridge of Birds, and I also agree with the suggestion of
> Robin McKinley’s classic _The Blue Sword_. If he doesn’t
> mind present-day fantasy, anything by Debora Geary (though
> on the whole I do recommend reading them in order).

I take note of that. Actually, I found a copy of "Bridge of Birds" in my
shelves, and I haven't read it yet. Interesting.


--
www.sf-boom-blog.de

[Dirk van den Boom]

http://www.amazon.de/Tentakelwacht-Dirk-van-den-Boom-ebook/dp/B008X82W0M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1398340397&sr=8-1&keywords=Tentakelwacht


--
www.sf-boom-blog.de

[Dirk van den Boom]

Am 24.04.2014 01:05, schrieb JRStern:

>> I know many stories with happy endings.
>> But I think I'm looking here for a special quality, a wonderful,
>> fantastic, exceptionally well drafted and developed happy ending. The
>> mother of happy endings.
>
> I'm not sure I know what that means.

I'm not either. I take it that everyone has his or her own measurement
of "happy" or, in this case, "happy enough for me". I'm just curious
about views.

--
www.sf-boom-blog.de

[Walter Bushell]

In article <3kugl95enfjs32lau...@4ax.com>,

JRStern <JRS...@foobar.invalid> wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 16:40:00 -0700 (PDT), Moriarty
> <blu...@ivillage.com> wrote:
>
> >> >I know many stories with happy endings.
> >> >But I think I'm looking here for a special quality, a wonderful,
> >> >fantastic, exceptionally well drafted and developed happy ending. The
> >> >mother of happy endings.
> >>
> >> I'm not sure I know what that means. How would we rate, say, the
> >> ending of (the original) Star Wars movie?
> ...
> >>
> >> End of "Dune" has Paul Muad-dib Emperor of the Universe.

s/Universe/Galaxy/

> >
> >With a genocide about to happen. Happy it aint.
>
> Well, the genociders seemed happy enough.
>
> Boy grows up, gets the girl, is emperor of the universe, still has his
> mommy, gets even with the old witch, has a bunch of new friends and
> big worms to ride around on, what could make it happier?
>
> That's kind of the problem, is the only happy ending one where
> everyone holds hands and sings kumbaya?
>
> J.

--
Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greed. Me.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <20140424.073...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk>,

ppint. at pplay <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> - whether such a life is or is not worth living, depends
> upon the judgement of the individual concerned. sadly,
> for some the prospect is or becomes intolerable; for
> others, it is merely a coda, however long it proves to
> last and whatever else one finds to do, that may be of
> value to others.

Tolkien pointed out more than once that whereas the tales of Men
are about escape from death, the tales of Elves are about escape
from deathlessness.

>
> - gollum, however, dies a truly happy death - does he not?

Depending on how fast it was. One millisecond of "I've got my
Precious!" followed by ... exctinction? Tolkien never says what
happens to the souls of Hobbits after death, but he does say they
are close relatives of ours.

[Robert Carnegie]

On Thursday, 24 April 2014 14:53:13 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <20140424.073...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk>,
> ppint. at pplay <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > - gollum, however, dies a truly happy death - does he not?
>
> Depending on how fast it was. One millisecond of "I've
> got my Precious!" followed by ... exctinction?

It probably takes several seconds to fall into the volcano,
but you cook on the way down... It's a dumb place to
start dancing for joy. I wonder if he realised that at
least no one else would have Precious now...

[Walter Bushell]

In article <lj9g2m$btr$1...@dont-email.me>,

"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:

> On 4/23/14 11:08 AM, Dirk van den Boom wrote:
> > Recently I had a discussion with a friend who claimed that he only likes
> > novels which make him feel really happy, at least at the end. Novels,
> > where authors put a lot of effort in a glorious happy end, which puts a
> > smile on everyone's face.
> >
> > While I found that somewhat limited, I decided not to argue anyone's
> > reading habits, but it lead me to a question: Which SF/F-novel would
> > pass the test of my friend's preferences? Immediately some Miles-novels
> > and some Liaden-stuff came into my mind, but then I stopped being
> > inspired. Any takers?
> >
> >
>
>
> Others have mentioned _The Witches of Karres_, which fits. _Little
> Fuzzy_ and the other two Fuzzy novels by H.Beam Piper. For me, Lord
> Valentine's Castle makes me feel good at the end every time.
>
> I try to write books that will leave you happy at the end, too.

Turtledove's _The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump_ although the
diabolically horrible things happen the least of which is a demon
stration. Even the helpful spook stops spooking.

[Walter Bushell]

In article <lj9kgl$86o$1...@dont-email.me>,

Most men's happiness involves becoming breeding stock.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <984599cf-d0b8-4745...@googlegroups.com>,

I doubt it. My feeling is at that moment there was room in his
poor little mind for only one thing.

And so far we've been considering only physical effects. I'm
not going to attempt to figure in how magical forces would affect
the process of falling to one's death in a volcano.

On the other hand, there's an old novel (set around WWI) called
_The World, The Flesh, and Father Smith._ Fr. Smith, who
celebrates Mass in an unused warehouse in a strongly Protestant
suburb of Glasgow, reads somewhere that Judas might have been
saved after all, because there was enough time, between when he
jumped off the branch and the time he reached the end of his rope,
to repent. So Fr. Smith prays for his soul that night.

In LotR and TWtFaFS we have two works of fiction, both based on
Catholic theology. So maybe Gollum had a millisecond in which to
repent before he died in a millisecond of fire. We could hope
so.

(If I were able to ask Tolkien about this, I have the feeling he
would've said, "Why, yes, it would be possible. But the Valar
are silent on that matter.")

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <proto-C158BB....@news.panix.com>,

"What is broken is broken; who is dead is dead."

--Eric Walker

[David DeLaney]

On 2014-04-24, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:

> lal_truckee <lal_t...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Nominally that resolution pretty much defines the Heinlein juveniles,
>> but the others have various problems: for instance how do you factor in
>> John Thomas's getting his life's wishes and happiness granted, but
>> unbeknownst as breeding stock? Happy or no? From my memory review Rod
>> ends up with the least problematical baggage and the most promise of
>> happiness from this particular subset of SF.
>
> Most men's happiness involves becoming breeding stock.

And also their John Thomas.

Dave, exactly what he says on his tin
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[David DeLaney]

On 2014-04-24, Dirk van den Boom <spam...@sf-boom.de> wrote:
>> Like others, I???ll mention _The Witches of Karres_ and

>> _Bridge of Birds, and I also agree with the suggestion of

>> Robin McKinley???s classic _The Blue Sword_. If he doesn???t

>> mind present-day fantasy, anything by Debora Geary (though
>> on the whole I do recommend reading them in order).
>
> I take note of that. Actually, I found a copy of "Bridge of Birds" in my
> shelves, and I haven't read it yet. Interesting.

ACK GAH EEEEEEEEE you, er, must schedule a few hours for this, like, THIS WEEK
not making this up

Dave, you'll thank us later

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <proto-E6B710....@news.panix.com>,

My gut feeling is that if someone (a Divine visitation from RAH?)
told JT this, he would laugh for several minutes and then wonder
if he should tell Betty. (But she already knows.)

[Walter Bushell]

In article <n4JJp...@kithrup.com>,

djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

> In article <proto-E6B710....@news.panix.com>,
> Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
> >In article <lj9kgl$86o$1...@dont-email.me>,
> > lal_truckee <lal_t...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 4/23/14 8:08 AM, Dirk van den Boom wrote:
> >>
> >> > Novels, where authors put a lot of effort in a glorious happy end, which
> >> > puts a smile on everyone's face.
> >>
> >> I've been watching this thread and pondering the SF subset of the
> >> Heinlein juveniles for possible membership in classification.
> >> I suggest Tunnel in the Sky suits very well.
> >>
> >> In the conclusive scene Rod Walker has learned life's lesson, become a
> >> man, achieved his youthful goals, and taken his place among his desired
> >> peers, and is leading other men into the future and grand adventure.
> >>
> >> Nominally that resolution pretty much defines the Heinlein juveniles,
> >> but the others have various problems: for instance how do you factor in
> >> John Thomas's getting his life's wishes and happiness granted, but
> >> unbeknownst as breeding stock? Happy or no? From my memory review Rod
> >> ends up with the least problematical baggage and the most promise of
> >> happiness from this particular subset of SF.
> >
> >Most men's happiness involves becoming breeding stock.
>
> My gut feeling is that if someone (a Divine visitation from RAH?)
> told JT this, he would laugh for several minutes and then wonder
> if he should tell Betty. (But she already knows.)

No need, she already knows.

[Dirk van den Boom]

Am 24.04.2014 17:21, schrieb David DeLaney:
>
>> I take note of that. Actually, I found a copy of "Bridge of Birds" in my
>> shelves, and I haven't read it yet. Interesting.
>
> ACK GAH EEEEEEEEE you, er, must schedule a few hours for this, like, THIS WEEK
> not making this up
>
> Dave, you'll thank us later

Okay. After I finished the Shoal Sequence :-)


--
www.sf-boom-blog.de

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

And my bank account thanks you. :)

--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

Perfectly reasonable. AND THEN YOU MUST READ BRIDGE OF BIRDS.

Not that I want to oversell it as that can only cause disappointment,
but it is very good.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"So overall I don't think either you or I got it right, which is
still doing better than average for a Usenet exchange"
-- J Nebus, rasfw

[Brian M. Scott]

On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 16:05:58 -0700, JRStern
<JRS...@foobar.invalid> wrote in
<news:1bhgl9ln9ef9ufu3d...@4ax.com> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

> On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 18:37:31 +0200, Dirk van den Boom
> <spam...@sf-boom.de> wrote:

[...]

>> I know many stories with happy endings. But I think I'm
>> looking here for a special quality, a wonderful,
>> fantastic, exceptionally well drafted and developed
>> happy ending. The mother of happy endings.

> I'm not sure I know what that means. How would we rate,
> say, the ending of (the original) Star Wars movie?

> ... end of "The Uplift War" is pretty good along very similar lines.

> End of "Dune" has Paul Muad-dib Emperor of the Universe.

With a wife whom he needs for political reasons but does not
want, and knowing that he is about to create untold misery
for humanity, albeit ultimately to save it. This is
definitely not the mother of happy endings; it‘s ‘I’ve
succeeded in bringing about the least of evils, which is a
good thing, but the least of evils is still horrible’.

I’m not even sure that _The Curse of Chalion_, which by most
standards definitely has a happy ending, quite qualifies:
Ista doesn’t get an entirely happy ending, though she is
given some hope.

[...]

Brian
--
It was the neap tide, when the baga venture out of their
holes to root for sandtatties. The waves whispered
rhythmically over the packed sand: haggisss, haggisss,
haggisss.

[JRStern]

On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 18:31:38 -0400, "Brian M. Scott"
<b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:

>On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 16:05:58 -0700, JRStern
><JRS...@foobar.invalid> wrote in
><news:1bhgl9ln9ef9ufu3d...@4ax.com> in
>rec.arts.sf.written:
>
>> On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 18:37:31 +0200, Dirk van den Boom
>> <spam...@sf-boom.de> wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>>> I know many stories with happy endings. But I think I'm
>>> looking here for a special quality, a wonderful,
>>> fantastic, exceptionally well drafted and developed
>>> happy ending. The mother of happy endings.
>
>> I'm not sure I know what that means. How would we rate,
>> say, the ending of (the original) Star Wars movie?
>
>> ... end of "The Uplift War" is pretty good along very similar lines.
>
>> End of "Dune" has Paul Muad-dib Emperor of the Universe.
>
>With a wife whom he needs for political reasons but does not
>want, and knowing that he is about to create untold misery
>for humanity, albeit ultimately to save it. This is
>definitely not the mother of happy endings; it�s �I�ve
>succeeded in bringing about the least of evils, which is a
>good thing, but the least of evils is still horrible�.

Snow White married the prince, then got fat and bitchy.

J.

[Brian M. Scott]

On 24 Apr 2014 02:10:26 -0400, William December Starr
<wds...@panix.com> wrote in
<news:lja9si$ph8$1...@panix2.panix.com> in rec.arts.sf.written:

Dirk is the author of the trilogy _Tentakelschatten_,
_Tentakeltraum_, and _Tentakelsturm_, published together in
a combined e-book as _Tentakel: Der erste Krieg_. This is
followed about by the trilogy _Tentakelwacht_,
_Tentakelblut_, and _Tentakelreich_, the last of which will
appear sometime this year; the events take place about a
century after those of the first trilogy. It’s MilSF set in
a rather dystopic future, and while the first trilogy does
end with the survival of the human race, I definitely
wouldn’t call it a happy ending. _Tentakelwacht_ reaches a
pause rather than a true ending, and it’s far from being a
happy pause. (It does, however, include a surprise that I
didn’t see coming.) I’ve only just started _Tentakelblut_.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <k15jl9hmokkojgik9...@4ax.com>,

And others ....

http://www.ivillage.com/fallen-disney-princess/6-a-543748?obref=obnetwork

[Lynn McGuire]

Snow White or the Prince?

Lynn

[Kurt Busiek]

On 2014-04-24 23:00:16 +0000, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> said:

> On 4/24/2014 5:47 PM, JRStern wrote:
>> Snow White married the prince, then got fat and bitchy.
>

> Snow White or the Prince?

Neither. Those are two of the dwarfs' wives. They went to work at the
castle after the divorces.

kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!

[Lynn McGuire]

On 4/24/2014 5:47 PM, JRStern wrote:

> On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 18:31:38 -0400, "Brian M. Scott"
> <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 16:05:58 -0700, JRStern
>> <JRS...@foobar.invalid> wrote in
>> <news:1bhgl9ln9ef9ufu3d...@4ax.com> in
>> rec.arts.sf.written:
>>
>>> On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 18:37:31 +0200, Dirk van den Boom
>>> <spam...@sf-boom.de> wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>>> I know many stories with happy endings. But I think I'm
>>>> looking here for a special quality, a wonderful,
>>>> fantastic, exceptionally well drafted and developed
>>>> happy ending. The mother of happy endings.
>>
>>> I'm not sure I know what that means. How would we rate,
>>> say, the ending of (the original) Star Wars movie?
>>
>>> ... end of "The Uplift War" is pretty good along very similar lines.
>>
>>> End of "Dune" has Paul Muad-dib Emperor of the Universe.
>>
>> With a wife whom he needs for political reasons but does not
>> want, and knowing that he is about to create untold misery
>> for humanity, albeit ultimately to save it. This is

>> definitely not the mother of happy endings; it�s �I�ve

>> succeeded in bringing about the least of evils, which is a

>> good thing, but the least of evils is still horrible�.

>
> Snow White married the prince, then got fat and bitchy.
>
> J.

Be sure to try _Indexing_ by Seanan McGuire:
http://www.amazon.com/Indexing-Seanan-McGuire/dp/1477809600/

You'll never view Snow White the same ever again.
Ultra white skin and bright red lips are not as
pretty in real life.

Lynn

[JRStern]

On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 16:02:33 -0700, Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com>
wrote:

>On 2014-04-24 23:00:16 +0000, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> said:
>
>> On 4/24/2014 5:47 PM, JRStern wrote:
>>> Snow White married the prince, then got fat and bitchy.
>>
>> Snow White or the Prince?
>
>Neither. Those are two of the dwarfs' wives. They went to work at the
>castle after the divorces.

And then starred on the unreality show, "Dwarf Housewives of
Wonderland".

>
>kdb

[Dirk van den Boom]

Am 25.04.2014 00:30, schrieb Jaimie Vandenbergh:

> Perfectly reasonable. AND THEN YOU MUST READ BRIDGE OF BIRDS.
>
> Not that I want to oversell it as that can only cause disappointment,
> but it is very good.

I promise :-)


--
www.sf-boom-blog.de

[Greg Goss]

That truly BAD fx scene in the movie completely threw me out of the
storyline.

Someone falls into lava and DOESN'T cook. He slowly submerges into
colour-shifted water with no damage whatsoever to skin, hair, etc?
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <brvd12...@mid.individual.net>,

I never even *saw* that movie. I was too much disgusted by what
Jackson (may his bones burn green) did to _TTT_.

In any case, in the book he falls out of sight before he ever
hits the lava.

No, that's Gollum who falls out of sight, not Jackson, but one
can dream.

[JRStern]

On Fri, 25 Apr 2014 16:02:48 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <brvd12...@mid.individual.net>,
>Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>>Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>>>On Thursday, 24 April 2014 14:53:13 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>> ppint. at pplay <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>> > - gollum, however, dies a truly happy death - does he not?
>>>>
>>>> Depending on how fast it was. One millisecond of "I've
>>>> got my Precious!" followed by ... exctinction?
>>>
>>>It probably takes several seconds to fall into the volcano,
>>>but you cook on the way down... It's a dumb place to
>>>start dancing for joy. I wonder if he realised that at
>>>least no one else would have Precious now...
>>
>>That truly BAD fx scene in the movie completely threw me out of the
>>storyline.
>>
>>Someone falls into lava and DOESN'T cook. He slowly submerges into
>>colour-shifted water with no damage whatsoever to skin, hair, etc?
>
>I never even *saw* that movie. I was too much disgusted by what
>Jackson (may his bones burn green) did to _TTT_.
>
>In any case, in the book he falls out of sight before he ever
>hits the lava.
>
>No, that's Gollum who falls out of sight, not Jackson, but one
>can dream.

Aww, now, give yourself a break and go ahead and see ROTK. Yes,
Jackson departed from the book(s) in several places and in some
critical ways, and the movie suffered almost every time he did so.
But if you watch the "extras" DVDs you hear that they were REALLY
going to depart from the text, and fortunately were talked out of it.
Just try to tune out most of the non-cannonical elements. Here and
there he moved some lines around between chapters and characters and
it mostly worked.

And as for Gollum sinking quietly into red hot lava (that would
certainly be far too dense to allow it, among other physical factors),
eh, it's five seconds. For that matter exactly why does throwing a
ring, even a magic ring, into a volcano make it erupt? If Sauron could
ever really master that much power he could melt Minas Tirith. Stop
asking so many questions, just watch the pretty pictures, some of them
are pretty good.

J.

[William December Starr]

In article <brvd12...@mid.individual.net>,

Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> said:

> That truly BAD fx scene in the movie completely threw me out of
> the storyline.
>
> Someone falls into lava and DOESN'T cook. He slowly submerges
> into colour-shifted water with no damage whatsoever to skin, hair,
> etc?

The Ring was expending everything it had to try to preserve itself[1],
and the force field spread over Gollum too?

-----------
*1: and failing of course, because its forte was seducing
and corrupting minds, not brute force manipulation of
physical elements. If only it had spent some of its
points on Flight...

-- wds

[William December Starr]

In article <n4K54...@kithrup.com>,
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) said:

> JRStern <JRS...@foobar.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Snow White married the prince, then got fat and bitchy.
>
> And others ....
>
> http://www.ivillage.com/fallen-disney-princess/6-a-543748?obref=obnetwork

Jasmine at least seems to done okay. Arguably Pocahontas too.

-- wds

[William December Starr]

In article <n4JJM...@kithrup.com>,

djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) said:

> "What is broken is broken; who is dead is dead."
> --Eric Walker

Sure, in boring reality.

-- wds

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <ljeojk$5a4$1...@panix2.panix.com>,

Mphfffff.....

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <ljeorg$icm$1...@panix2.panix.com>,

William December Starr <wds...@panix.com> wrote:

Of all those fates, I'd choose that of Pocahontas. Note that she
has umpteen cats and her place is still clean.

[Michael Ikeda]

wds...@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote in
news:ljeojk$5a4$1...@panix2.panix.com:

> In article <brvd12...@mid.individual.net>,
> Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> said:
>
>> That truly BAD fx scene in the movie completely threw me out of
>> the storyline.
>>
>> Someone falls into lava and DOESN'T cook. He slowly submerges
>> into colour-shifted water with no damage whatsoever to skin,
>> hair, etc?
>
> The Ring was expending everything it had to try to preserve
> itself[1], and the force field spread over Gollum too?
>

And, in a nice touch, the Ring doesn't actually melt until the moment
that Frodo allows Sam to save him.

(From Tehanu's review of the ROTK film in "More People's Guide to
J.R.R. Tolkien: "The moment Frodo reaches up to allow Sam to save his
life, the Ring is destroyed. As if that tiny act of individual love
and faith were Sauron's undoing.")

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <XnsA31C5D4864887...@207.246.207.159>,

Except nothing like that is in the book. Gollum bites off the
Ring, Frodo becomes visible, Gollum falls, Sam picks up Frodo and
carries him away.

[Michael Ikeda]

djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
news:n4p08...@kithrup.com:

> In article <XnsA31C5D4864887...@207.246.207.159>,
> Michael Ikeda <mmi...@erols.com> wrote:
>>wds...@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote in
>>news:ljeojk$5a4$1...@panix2.panix.com:
>>
>>> In article <brvd12...@mid.individual.net>,
>>> Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> said:
>>>
>>>> That truly BAD fx scene in the movie completely threw me out
>>>> of the storyline.
>>>>
>>>> Someone falls into lava and DOESN'T cook. He slowly
>>>> submerges into colour-shifted water with no damage whatsoever
>>>> to skin, hair, etc?
>>>
>>> The Ring was expending everything it had to try to preserve
>>> itself[1], and the force field spread over Gollum too?
>>>
>>
>>And, in a nice touch, the Ring doesn't actually melt until the
>>moment that Frodo allows Sam to save him.
>>
>>(From Tehanu's review of the ROTK film in "More People's Guide
>>to J.R.R. Tolkien: "The moment Frodo reaches up to allow Sam to
>>save his life, the Ring is destroyed. As if that tiny act of
>>individual love and faith were Sauron's undoing.")
>
> Except nothing like that is in the book. Gollum bites off the
> Ring, Frodo becomes visible, Gollum falls, Sam picks up Frodo
> and carries him away.
>

I don't CARE that nothing like that is in the book. The scene
works well and fits in with the themes of the book.

[Robert Carnegie]

On Sunday, 27 April 2014 14:10:12 UTC+1, Michael Ikeda wrote:
> wds...@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote in
> news:ljeojk$5a4$1...@panix2.panix.com:
> > In article <brvd12...@mid.individual.net>,
> > Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> said:

> >> [The fate of Gollum]

> >> Someone falls into lava and DOESN'T cook. He slowly submerges
> >> into colour-shifted water with no damage whatsoever to skin,
> >> hair, etc?
> >
> > The Ring was expending everything it had to try to preserve
> > itself[1], and the force field spread over Gollum too?
>
> And, in a nice touch, the Ring doesn't actually melt until the moment
> that Frodo allows Sam to save him.
>
> (From Tehanu's review of the ROTK film in "More People's Guide to
> J.R.R. Tolkien: "The moment Frodo reaches up to allow Sam to save his
> life, the Ring is destroyed. As if that tiny act of individual love
> and faith were Sauron's undoing.")

But that's silly; it implies that Frodo's selfish desire
for the Ring kept it from melting, until he gave it up.
I can't see that.

To read it the other way around, that the Ring was destroyed
and it let go of Frodo, would we have to suppose that its
magic stopped working a few seconds before it physically
dissolved?

[Gene Wirchenko]

On 25 Apr 2014 18:46:12 -0400, wds...@panix.com (William December

It might also have been upset over missing out on its 5000th
birthday. It made it to 4861 (or so).

On the seducing side, if only it had thought of the tourism
potential of the Big Birthday Bash. A solid, co-ordinated marketing
campaign ("... and in the Darkness bind them") could have worked
wonders. Maybe it tried, and the PHB (Sauron) mucked it up.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

[Jim G.]

Robert Carnegie sent the following on 4/27/2014 11:14 AM:

> On Sunday, 27 April 2014 14:10:12 UTC+1, Michael Ikeda wrote:
>> wds...@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote in
>> news:ljeojk$5a4$1...@panix2.panix.com:
>>> In article <brvd12...@mid.individual.net>,
>>> Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> said:
>>>> [The fate of Gollum]
>>>> Someone falls into lava and DOESN'T cook. He slowly submerges
>>>> into colour-shifted water with no damage whatsoever to skin,
>>>> hair, etc?
>>>
>>> The Ring was expending everything it had to try to preserve
>>> itself[1], and the force field spread over Gollum too?
>>
>> And, in a nice touch, the Ring doesn't actually melt until the moment
>> that Frodo allows Sam to save him.
>>
>> (From Tehanu's review of the ROTK film in "More People's Guide to
>> J.R.R. Tolkien: "The moment Frodo reaches up to allow Sam to save his
>> life, the Ring is destroyed. As if that tiny act of individual love
>> and faith were Sauron's undoing.")
>
> But that's silly; it implies that Frodo's selfish desire
> for the Ring kept it from melting, until he gave it up.
> I can't see that.

It also ignores the fact that Sam and Frodo had shown each other
countless other tiny acts of love and faith before this point and yet,
oddly enough, the ring continued to exist. Only when it reached where it
needed to reach could the ring be destroyed. Tehanu's personal filters
here are bizarre and silly.

> To read it the other way around, that the Ring was destroyed
> and it let go of Frodo, would we have to suppose that its
> magic stopped working a few seconds before it physically
> dissolved?

Those transition periods can be tricky. :)

--
Jim G. | A fan of good reading, good writing, and fellow bookworms
http://www.goodreads.com/jimgysin/
http://www.librarything.com/home/jimgysin

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <1rfql99a2qa6um9oa...@4ax.com>,

Except that Bilbo's birthday bash was in ...

/e looks it up in Tale of Years

T.A. 3001. The entry before that is _circa_ 3000, the shadow of
Mordor begins to lengthen. ... [Saruman's] spies report that the
Shire is being closely guarded by the Rangers. The Rangers would
have been watching because Gandalf warned them that something was
not quite right with Bilbo's ring.

So even if Sauron had begun to suspect something about the Shire,
it was far away and his power was still in the process of
rebuilding.

The War of the Ring, as any fule kno, was T.A. 3018-9.

By the way, what's PHB?

[Greg Goss]

djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>Gene Wirchenko <ge...@telus.net> wrote:


>> On the seducing side, if only it had thought of the tourism
>>potential of the Big Birthday Bash. A solid, co-ordinated marketing
>>campaign ("... and in the Darkness bind them") could have worked
>>wonders. Maybe it tried, and the PHB (Sauron) mucked it up.

>By the way, what's PHB?

It's a common nerd term - "Pointy Haired Boss" is an archetype after
Dilbert's boss in the cartoon.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <bs5bmi...@mid.individual.net>,

Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>Gene Wirchenko <ge...@telus.net> wrote:
>
>
>>> On the seducing side, if only it had thought of the tourism
>>>potential of the Big Birthday Bash. A solid, co-ordinated marketing
>>>campaign ("... and in the Darkness bind them") could have worked
>>>wonders. Maybe it tried, and the PHB (Sauron) mucked it up.
>
>>By the way, what's PHB?
>
>It's a common nerd term - "Pointy Haired Boss" is an archetype after
>Dilbert's boss in the cartoon.

Oh, right. Thanks.

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

On 4/27/14 6:45 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <bs5bmi...@mid.individual.net>,
> Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>> Gene Wirchenko <ge...@telus.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> On the seducing side, if only it had thought of the tourism
>>>> potential of the Big Birthday Bash. A solid, co-ordinated marketing
>>>> campaign ("... and in the Darkness bind them") could have worked
>>>> wonders. Maybe it tried, and the PHB (Sauron) mucked it up.
>>
>>> By the way, what's PHB?
>>
>> It's a common nerd term - "Pointy Haired Boss" is an archetype after
>> Dilbert's boss in the cartoon.
>
> Oh, right. Thanks.
>

I always read that as "Player's Handbook".

--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com

[ppint. at pplay]

- hi; in article, <n4pJE...@kithrup.com>,
djh...@kithrup.com "Dorothy J Heydt" asserted:

> Gene Wirchenko <ge...@telus.net> wrote:
>>It might also have been upset over missing out on its 5000th
>>birthday. It made it to 4861 (or so).
>>On the seducing side, if only it had thought of the tourism
>>potential of the Big Birthday Bash. A solid, co-ordinated marketing
>>campaign ("... and in the Darkness bind them") could have worked
>>wonders. Maybe it tried, and the PHB (Sauron) mucked it up.
>
>Except that Bilbo's birthday bash was in ...
>
>/e looks it up in Tale of Years
>T.A. 3001. The entry before that is _circa_ 3000, the shadow of
>Mordor begins to lengthen. ... [Saruman's] spies report that the
>Shire is being closely guarded by the Rangers. The Rangers would
>have been watching because Gandalf warned them that something was
>not quite right with Bilbo's ring.

- i do not believe gandalf so much as mentioned "bilbo's
ring" - or any other ring - to the rangers in general nor
aragorn, elrond, galadriel, celeborn, cirdan or radogast
in particular, any more than he did to denethor or even
the head of the white council and his own order, saruman;
afaicr aragorn did not know about the ring in relation to
bilbo or frodo until the conversation during which he coun-
selled they search for gollum.

>So even if Sauron had begun to suspect something about the Shire,
>it was far away and his power was still in the process of
>rebuilding. The War of the Ring, as any fule kno, was T.A. 3018-9.

- and saruman was not yet trapped by sauron; he was still
operating on his own behalf.

- love, ppint.
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
"Six years of living in the Discworld has wrecked me for this one!!"
- kerryann pankhurst, 24/10/96 (10/24/96 for merkins)

[ppint. at pplay]

- hi; in article,
<f7207496-7a45-4f84...@googlegroups.com>,
rja.ca...@excite.com "Robert Carnegie" incredulated:

> Michael Ikeda wrote:
>> And, in a nice touch, the Ring doesn't actually melt until the moment
>> that Frodo allows Sam to save him.
>> (From Tehanu's review of the ROTK film in "More People's Guide to
>> J.R.R. Tolkien: "The moment Frodo reaches up to allow Sam to save his
>> life, the Ring is destroyed. As if that tiny act of individual love
>> and faith were Sauron's undoing.")
>
>But that's silly; it implies that Frodo's selfish desire for the Ring
>kept it from melting, until he gave it up. I can't see that. To read
>it the other way around, that the Ring was destroyed and it let go of
>Frodo, would we have to suppose that its magic stopped working a few
>seconds before it physically dissolved?

- no, it isn't silly; and it's not inconsistent with tolkien's
representation of the power of the ring over people who desire
power, and the converse of this - remember the demonstration so
many miles ago, of the ring's inability to affect tom bombadil.
- frodo, of course, isn't the embodiment of middle-earth in an
powerful being: but he is a hobbit and, as his uncle bilbo was,
remarkably unaffected by the power of the ring. for most of the
journey bringing it to orodruin he experienced it as an increasing
burden, rather than an ever more urgent appeal to his desire for
power. but in the heat of the sammath naur, in the place of its
forging and the heart of sauron's realm, it finally finds its way
to overcome frodo's resistance and he dons it, for the first time
claiming it as his, and wresting - at least temporarily - mastery
of the ring even from its maker.

- make no mistake about it: frodo broke under the burden of the ring.

- so; do gollum's teeth alone suffice to destroy frodo's desire for
the ruling ring, its power over him - and his power to maintain it?

- or is its most recent lord's renunciation of its power over him in
his heart fully possible once gollum's teeth have done their work?

- or are both its forcible removal from him and his renunciation of
it necessary for its destruction and his recovery of his true self,
once more capable of feeling love for a friend, noticing his worries
and concern for him, his preparedness to put his own life at risk, to
save him?

- love, ppint.
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--

"And I usually use a mallet instead of the rolling pin..."
- glinda, 23/10/96 (10/23/96 for merkins)

[Cryptoengineer]

v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk ("ppint. at pplay") wrote in
news:20140428.041...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk:

> - hi; in article,
> <f7207496-7a45-4f84...@googlegroups.com>,
> rja.ca...@excite.com "Robert Carnegie" incredulated:
>> Michael Ikeda wrote:
>>> And, in a nice touch, the Ring doesn't actually melt until the
>>> moment that Frodo allows Sam to save him.
>>> (From Tehanu's review of the ROTK film in "More People's Guide to
>>> J.R.R. Tolkien: "The moment Frodo reaches up to allow Sam to save
>>> his life, the Ring is destroyed. As if that tiny act of individual
>>> love and faith were Sauron's undoing.")
>>
>>But that's silly; it implies that Frodo's selfish desire for the Ring
>>kept it from melting, until he gave it up. I can't see that. To read
>>it the other way around, that the Ring was destroyed and it let go of
>>Frodo, would we have to suppose that its magic stopped working a few
>>seconds before it physically dissolved?
>
> - no, it isn't silly; and it's not inconsistent with tolkien's
> representation of the power of the ring over people who desire
> power, and the converse of this

Hmmm.... and here I had been thinking all these years that *someone*
on the movie had Done The Research, and was Showing Their Work.

Pure substances, metal or otherwise, tend to have sharp, well defined
melting points. Gold is also an execellent conductor of heat. It's
accurate that it would remain more or less unchanged until the entire
item reached the melting point, then it would all liquify at once.

All ignore that they let a dense gold ring float on much lighter
lava.

pt

[Alan Baker]

My thoughts exactly.

I don't need a verbatim reproduction of the books into movies.

There are parts of what were done that I don't like, but there are also
parts that were added that work brilliantly.

[David Harmon]

On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 23:36:46 -0500 in rec.arts.sf.written,
Cryptoengineer <pete...@gmail.com> wrote,

>All ignore that they let a dense gold ring float on much lighter
>lava.

I guess it was supported by a crust of cooled lava for a moment.

[Christopher J. Henrich]

In article <n4K54...@kithrup.com>, Dorothy J Heydt
<djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:

> In article <k15jl9hmokkojgik9...@4ax.com>,
> JRStern <JRS...@foobar.invalid> wrote:

> >On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 18:31:38 -0400, "Brian M. Scott"
> ><b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
> >
> >
> >Snow White married the prince, then got fat and bitchy.
>
> And others ....
>
> http://www.ivillage.com/fallen-disney-princess/6-a-543748?obref=obnetwork

I remember a New Yorker cartoon of a dumpy, discontented, middle-aged
couple entering a gala reception at the Royal Palace and being
announced as "Prince and Mrs. Charming."

--
Chris Henrich <http://www.mathinteract.com>
Theorem: Any automorphic resonance field has a semi-infinite number of
irresolute prime ideals. -- Terry Pratchett

[Christopher J. Henrich]

In article <f7207496-7a45-4f84...@googlegroups.com>,

Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:

> On Sunday, 27 April 2014 14:10:12 UTC+1, Michael Ikeda wrote:

[snip]

>
> > And, in a nice touch, the Ring doesn't actually melt until the moment
> > that Frodo allows Sam to save him.
> >
> > (From Tehanu's review of the ROTK film in "More People's Guide to
> > J.R.R. Tolkien: "The moment Frodo reaches up to allow Sam to save his
> > life, the Ring is destroyed. As if that tiny act of individual love
> > and faith were Sauron's undoing.")
>
> But that's silly; it implies that Frodo's selfish desire
> for the Ring kept it from melting, until he gave it up.
> I can't see that.
>
> To read it the other way around, that the Ring was destroyed
> and it let go of Frodo, would we have to suppose that its
> magic stopped working a few seconds before it physically
> dissolved?

Thats it! That's the explanation of everything!! The Ring contains (?is
made of) thiotimoline!

--
Chris Henrich <http://www.mathinteract.com>

The wonderful thing about not planning, is that failure comes as a complete
surprise, and is not preceded by a period of worry or depression.
-- "Kiltannen"

[ppint. at pplay]

- hi; in article, <XnsA31D63A21...@216.196.97.131>,

pete...@gmail.com "Cryptoengineer" wrote:
> ("ppint. at pplay") wrote in

>> rja.ca...@excite.com "Robert Carnegie" incredulated:
>>> Michael Ikeda wrote:
>>>> And, in a nice touch, the Ring doesn't actually melt until the
>>>> moment that Frodo allows Sam to save him.
>>>> (From Tehanu's review of the ROTK film in "More People's Guide to
>>>> J.R.R. Tolkien: "The moment Frodo reaches up to allow Sam to save
>>>> his life, the Ring is destroyed. As if that tiny act of individual
>>>> love and faith were Sauron's undoing.")
>>>
>>>But that's silly; it implies that Frodo's selfish desire for the Ring
>>>kept it from melting, until he gave it up. I can't see that. To read
>>>it the other way around, that the Ring was destroyed and it let go of
>>>Frodo, would we have to suppose that its magic stopped working a few
>>>seconds before it physically dissolved?
>>
>>- no, it isn't silly; and it's not inconsistent with tolkien's
>>representation of the power of the ring over people who desire
>>power, and the converse of this
>
>Hmmm.... and here I had been thinking all these years that *someone*
>on the movie had Done The Research, and was Showing Their Work.
>
>Pure substances, metal or otherwise, tend to have sharp, well defined
>melting points. Gold is also an execellent conductor of heat. It's
>accurate that it would remain more or less unchanged until the entire
>item reached the melting point, then it would all liquify at once.

- all true of gold, the metal: but not necessarily, of the
power(s) of the ruling ring.

- were it simply pure gold (99.999 or whatever fine), it'd
still soften, become more malleable (& ductile?), with suf-
ficient heating; we're told the one ring will not melt or
even be damaged by a domestic fire, which could not harm an
ordinary plain gold ring, nor a blacksmith's forge, nor even
a dragon's flame, be it the greatest black dragon that ever
existed: so either it is not pure gold, or else its physical
properties were altered significantly by its maker, whether
deliberately, or incidentally in creating a ring capable of
holding so great a proportion of the power of a maia.

- anyway, it's not inconsistent with tolkien's representation

of the power of the ring over people who desire power, and the

converse of this: nor have you established that it is.

>All ignore that they let a dense gold ring float on much lighter lava.

- obsf^2nal _Surface Tension_ ?

- gollum dropped it in a hot spot?

- gollum's crisping hand, holding both ring and frodo's finger,
fell to one side onto a crusty bit of lava that took a little
while to start to re-melt in the natural convective turmoil of
orodruin's complex magmatical surface?

- love, a ppint. as suspects you'll not allow the finger+ring's
being less dense than the lava taken together

[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--

"The Dinner was loose again."
- _Chanur's Homecoming_, C. J. Cherryh, 1987
Phantasia, Daw & Methuen Books

[Walter Bushell]

In article <uvj7wy1b10k3.7z4fubjafwch$.d...@40tude.net>,

"Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 16:05:58 -0700, JRStern
> <JRS...@foobar.invalid> wrote in
> <news:1bhgl9ln9ef9ufu3d...@4ax.com> in
> rec.arts.sf.written:
>
> > On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 18:37:31 +0200, Dirk van den Boom
> > <spam...@sf-boom.de> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >> I know many stories with happy endings. But I think I'm
> >> looking here for a special quality, a wonderful,
> >> fantastic, exceptionally well drafted and developed
> >> happy ending. The mother of happy endings.
>
> > I'm not sure I know what that means. How would we rate,
> > say, the ending of (the original) Star Wars movie?
>
> > ... end of "The Uplift War" is pretty good along very similar lines.
>
> > End of "Dune" has Paul Muad-dib Emperor of the Universe.
>
> With a wife whom he needs for political reasons but does not
> want, and knowing that he is about to create untold misery
> for humanity, albeit ultimately to save it. This is
> definitely not the mother of happy endings; it‘s ‘I’ve
> succeeded in bringing about the least of evils, which is a
> good thing, but the least of evils is still horrible’.
>
> I’m not even sure that _The Curse of Chalion_, which by most
> standards definitely has a happy ending, quite qualifies:
> Ista doesn’t get an entirely happy ending, though she is
> given some hope.
>
> [...]
>
> Brian

But we learn in _Paladin_ that solution opens a Pandora's box of evils.
There the dead are many and stay dead, but of course they are taken up
by the Gods which are real in that Universe.

--
Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greed. Me.

[Walter Bushell]

In article <n4M3F...@kithrup.com>,

djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

> In article <ljeorg$icm$1...@panix2.panix.com>,
> William December Starr <wds...@panix.com> wrote:
> >In article <n4K54...@kithrup.com>,
> >djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) said:
> >
> >> JRStern <JRS...@foobar.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Snow White married the prince, then got fat and bitchy.
> >>
> >> And others ....
> >>
> >> http://www.ivillage.com/fallen-disney-princess/6-a-543748?obref=obnetwork
> >
> >Jasmine at least seems to done okay. Arguably Pocahontas too.
>
> Of all those fates, I'd choose that of Pocahontas. Note that she
> has umpteen cats and her place is still clean.

Well we don't have Smellovision <circle R>.

[Walter Bushell]

In article <126ll91tqd1mjt32e...@4ax.com>,
JRStern <JRS...@foobar.invalid> wrote:

> And as for Gollum sinking quietly into red hot lava (that would
> certainly be far too dense to allow it, among other physical factors),
> eh, it's five seconds. For that matter exactly why does throwing a
> ring, even a magic ring, into a volcano make it erupt? If Sauron could
> ever really master that much power he could melt Minas Tirith. Stop
> asking so many questions, just watch the pretty pictures, some of them
> are pretty good.
>
> J.

That is the thing with mythology. It's not for your rational mind, but
for more "primitive" or foundational parts of the mind, from which
emerge the rational mind. The rational mind is a function of the
foundational mind. Analogously to the ego and superego being part of
the id in the Freudian mythology.

[J. Clarke]

In article <280420142228574072%chen...@monmouth.com>,
chen...@monmouth.com says...

>
> In article <n4K54...@kithrup.com>, Dorothy J Heydt
> <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <k15jl9hmokkojgik9...@4ax.com>,
> > JRStern <JRS...@foobar.invalid> wrote:
> > >On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 18:31:38 -0400, "Brian M. Scott"
> > ><b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >Snow White married the prince, then got fat and bitchy.
> >
> > And others ....
> >
> > http://www.ivillage.com/fallen-disney-princess/6-a-543748?obref=obnetwork
>
> I remember a New Yorker cartoon of a dumpy, discontented, middle-aged
> couple entering a gala reception at the Royal Palace and being
> announced as "Prince and Mrs. Charming."

I really wish that people would learn that Pocahontas was a historical
figure who lived a real life in the real world, died at 22, and is
buried in England.

[James Silverton]

She was pretty famous in her time in London and regarded as royalty.
There is even a pub called "The Indian Princess". I seem to remember
reading that she has descendants living in Virginia.

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.

[J. Clarke]

In article <ljobm4$imh$1...@dont-email.me>, not.jim....@verizon.net
says...

Several of those descendants have lived in the White House.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <MPG.2dc91f1c6...@news.newsguy.com>,

Well, the same could be said for St. Nicholas (OK, not the '22' & 'England').
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <ljobm4$imh$1...@dont-email.me>,

I seem to recall that her descendants were specifically exempted from Jim Crow,
which iirc applied to other American Indians in VA.

[Kurt Busiek]

On 2014-04-29 14:07:00 +0000, James Silverton

J.Clarke should totally go to that site and tell them that their gag
photos aren't historically accurate. The same for jokes involving
George Washington chopping down a cherry tree, any portrayal that has
Washington and Lincoln having a conversation (especially if it involves
selling cars or mattresses), or Dracula being a vampire.

kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!

[Brian M. Scott]

On Tue, 29 Apr 2014 06:55:06 -0400, Walter Bushell
<pr...@panix.com> wrote in
<news:proto-89C838....@news.panix.com> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

> In article <uvj7wy1b10k3.7z4fubjafwch$.d...@40tude.net>,
> "Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:

[...]

>> I'm not even sure that _The Curse of Chalion_, which by most
>> standards definitely has a happy ending, quite qualifies:
>> Ista doesn't get an entirely happy ending, though she is
>> given some hope.

> But we learn in _Paladin_ that solution opens a Pandora's
> box of evils.

Completely irrelevant to the reader of _The Curse of
Chalion_.

[...]

Brian
--
It was the neap tide, when the baga venture out of their
holes to root for sandtatties. The waves whispered
rhythmically over the packed sand: haggisss, haggisss,
haggisss.

[John F. Eldredge]

I know that George Washington and Thomas Jefferson both had her as an
ancestor. Were there any other US presidents descended from her?

[Brian M. Scott]

On 30 Apr 2014 01:50:45 GMT, "John F. Eldredge"
<jo...@jfeldredge.com> wrote in
<news:bsb37l...@mid.individual.net> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

[...]

> I know that George Washington and Thomas Jefferson both
> had her as an ancestor. Were there any other US
> presidents descended from her?

I can find no evidence that *any* U.S. presidents were
descended from her. Jefferson’s sister Mary married one of
her descendants, and Woodrow Wilson’s second wife, Edith
Bolling Galt Wilson, was a descendant, as is Nancy Reagan.
That’s as close as I can come.

[Gene Wirchenko]

On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 20:54:08 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <1rfql99a2qa6um9oa...@4ax.com>,
>Gene Wirchenko <ge...@telus.net> wrote:

[snip]

>> It might also have been upset over missing out on its 5000th
>>birthday. It made it to 4861 (or so).
>>
>> On the seducing side, if only it had thought of the tourism
>>potential of the Big Birthday Bash. A solid, co-ordinated marketing
>>campaign ("... and in the Darkness bind them") could have worked
>>wonders. Maybe it tried, and the PHB (Sauron) mucked it up.
>
>Except that Bilbo's birthday bash was in ...

Not Bilbo's, but The Ring's Big Birthday Bash! Too bad Aragorn
would miss it (by about twenty years).

[snip]

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

[Robert Carnegie]

Is[*] Socks some kind of family member, or is the whole
"animal friends" bit also only in the movie? :-)

[*] Or, according to Wikipedia, "was". *moment of silence*

[Quadibloc]

On Wednesday, April 23, 2014 1:06:50 PM UTC-6, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:

> The biggest pleasure in LWE's books is that the people in them are
> sane and sensible by default. No idiot plots. It's just so soothing!

Now that would be *very* refreshing in the world of television!

John Savard

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

The rights are available; send any producers you may know to my agent.
(Scovil Galen Ghosh)



--
I'm serializing a new Ethshar novel!
The twenty-first chapter is online at:
http://www.ethshar.com/ishtascompanion21.html

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote in
news:lju1h9$e9c$1...@dont-email.me:

> On 2014-05-01 11:32:57 -0400, Quadibloc said:
>
>> On Wednesday, April 23, 2014 1:06:50 PM UTC-6, Jaimie
>> Vandenbergh wrote:
>>
>>> The biggest pleasure in LWE's books is that the people in them
>>> are sane and sensible by default. No idiot plots. It's just so
>>> soothing!
>>
>> Now that would be *very* refreshing in the world of television!
>
> The rights are available; send any producers you may know to my
> agent. (Scovil Galen Ghosh)
>

As much as I agree with the sentiment, living as close to Hollywood
as I do, I can say with certainty that it will never happen (though
you might sell the rights with no intention of them ever being used,
to tie them up so no one else can use them, of course).

You see, the problem is, film and television producers can only make
what they know, and in Hollywood, the have *no* experience with
people who are sand and sensible, and *on* experience with any kind
of plot other than stupid. By and large, I doubt most of them could
identify sanity or good sense. or a non-stupid plot, if it were
labeled with flashing neon signs.

"Inspired by the title of a 'true' Wikipedia article."

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.