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[tor dot com] Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, Part III

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James Nicoll

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Mar 14, 2018, 10:31:34 AM3/14/18
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Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, Part III

https://www.tor.com/2018/03/14/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-part-iii/

Usually they space my tor essays out more....
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

Ahasuerus

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Mar 14, 2018, 10:55:20 AM3/14/18
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On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 10:31:34 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, Part III
>
> https://www.tor.com/2018/03/14/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-part-iii/

...

> Although both spouses are credited, Garrett was reportedly in a
> coma for much of the period in which the series was published. I
> rather suspect that unconsciousness would have significantly
> impeded active participation. Presumably, whatever Garrett’s role
> in plotting the series, Heydron did most of the actual writing.

According to SFE3 (http://www.sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/garrett_randall)
and the Encyclopedia of Fantasy
(http://sf-encyclopedia.uk/fe.php?nm=heydron_vicki_ann):

"[Garrett] eventually abandoned the priesthood and married his third
wife, Vicki Ann Heydron, with whom he plotted the Gandalara series of
heroic fantasies; these appeared as collaborations, although in fact
Heydron wrote them since Garrett – in the wake of a serious attack of
viral meningitis – gradually lost the ability to work after 1979, and
was hospitalized from 1981 until his death."

> Usually they space my tor essays out more....

Have they reached peak Nicoll?

James Nicoll

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Mar 14, 2018, 11:02:06 AM3/14/18
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In article <a3b25c0f-d076-4ea1...@googlegroups.com>,
So far each piece gives me ideas for other essays.....

Anthony Nance

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Mar 14, 2018, 12:31:10 PM3/14/18
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James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, Part III
>
> https://www.tor.com/2018/03/14/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-part-iii/
>
> Usually they space my tor essays out more....

Aren't there 7 books in the Gandalara Cycle? <checks isfdb ... > Yep!
- Tony

Ted Nolan <tednolan>

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Mar 14, 2018, 12:39:20 PM3/14/18
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In article <p8biob$m2v$1...@dont-email.me>,
Of course by today's page-count standards, it's two books.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

James Nicoll

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Mar 14, 2018, 12:42:36 PM3/14/18
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In article <fgt1hl...@mid.individual.net>,
Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>In article <p8biob$m2v$1...@dont-email.me>,
>Anthony Nance <na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>>James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, Part III
>>>
>>>
>>https://www.tor.com/2018/03/14/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-part-iii/
>>>
>>> Usually they space my tor essays out more....
>>
>>Aren't there 7 books in the Gandalara Cycle? <checks isfdb ... > Yep!
>>- Tony
>
>Of course by today's page-count standards, it's two books.

It depends if it is sold as SF or fantasy. Fantasies can be tomes but
mid list SF is limited to 120K words.

Ted Nolan <tednolan>

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Mar 14, 2018, 12:46:27 PM3/14/18
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In article <p8bjdp$o1q$1...@reader2.panix.com>,
James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <fgt1hl...@mid.individual.net>,
>Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>>In article <p8biob$m2v$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>Anthony Nance <na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>>>James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, Part III
>>>>
>>>>
>>>https://www.tor.com/2018/03/14/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-part-iii/
>>>>
>>>> Usually they space my tor essays out more....
>>>
>>>Aren't there 7 books in the Gandalara Cycle? <checks isfdb ... > Yep!
>>>- Tony
>>
>>Of course by today's page-count standards, it's two books.
>
>It depends if it is sold as SF or fantasy. Fantasies can be tomes but
>mid list SF is limited to 120K words.
>

Well, 181 pages is below even Laser's 191 threshold which WP put s at
50-60K words..

mcdow...@sky.com

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Mar 14, 2018, 1:54:39 PM3/14/18
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"Currently she has the active support of a publisher whose name escapes me." As far as I can see from https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0735TQYWG/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1, P.C.Hodgell's "The Gates of Tagmeth" is published by Baen Books.

I find it curious that a series of posts dedicated to pushing the theory that women writers have been consistently discriminated against contains what appears, on the face of it, to be a deliberate decision to deprive a publisher of credit. I had hoped that somebody determined to avoid what he sees as a decision by conspirators unknown to erase women from history would at least avoid attempting to deny a publisher of its rightful credit, thus apparently replicating the sort of action (albeit with a different target) that the reviewer claims to be combating.

Panthera Tigris Altaica

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Mar 14, 2018, 2:03:49 PM3/14/18
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I have noticed that some people dislike Baen Books in general and certain authors who publish most or all of their work at Baen in particular. I decline to speculate as to what motivates this dislike. I will say that, having noticed it, I take it into consideration when evaluating some people's posts.

Ahasuerus

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Mar 14, 2018, 2:10:23 PM3/14/18
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On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 1:54:39 PM UTC-4, mcdow...@sky.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 2:31:34 PM UTC, James Nicoll wrote:
> > Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, Part III
> >
> > https://www.tor.com/2018/03/14/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-part-iii/
> >
> > Usually they space my tor essays out more....
>
> "Currently she has the active support of a publisher whose name
> escapes me." As far as I can see from
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0735TQYWG/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1,
> P.C.Hodgell's "The Gates of Tagmeth" is published by Baen Books.
[snip]

That's right. Hodgell was with Hypatia Press in the 1990s and with
Meisha Merlin in the 2000s. When the latter shut down in 2007, she
signed up with Baen -- see
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/adv_search_results.cgi?USE_1=author_canonical&OPERATOR_1=exact&TERM_1=P.+C.+Hodgell&CONJUNCTION_1=AND&USE_2=pub_title&OPERATOR_2=exact&TERM_2=&CONJUNCTION_2=AND&USE_3=pub_title&OPERATOR_3=exact&TERM_3=&ORDERBY=pub_year&START=0&TYPE=Publication
for a full list of her publications sorted by date.

Default User

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Mar 14, 2018, 2:36:04 PM3/14/18
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James Nicoll wrote:

> Fighting Erasure: Women SF Writers of the 1970s, Part III
>
>
https://www.tor.com/2018/03/14/fighting-erasure-women-sf-writers-of-the-1970s-part-iii/
>
> Usually they space my tor essays out more....

> The Society for Preservation and Dissemination of Books We Love to
> Read.

I initially wacky-parsed that as "The Society for Prevention of
Dissemination . . . ."

I blame it in the editorial. Or society.



Brian

David DeLaney

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Mar 14, 2018, 3:36:11 PM3/14/18
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On 2018-03-14, James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> Ahasuerus <ahas...@email.com> wrote:

>>> Usually they space my tor essays out more....
>>
>>Have they reached peak Nicoll?
>
> So far each piece gives me ideas for other essays.....

So this is just normal fractal behavior then.

Dave, all the more $$$ for yoooou!
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

Lynn McGuire

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Mar 14, 2018, 3:38:12 PM3/14/18
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Is Baen the only woman led publisher now ?

Lynn



Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

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Mar 14, 2018, 3:39:26 PM3/14/18
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mcdow...@sky.com wrote in
news:73c1ff0c-f89c-4ec5...@googlegroups.com:
Some people feel that the only way to right a wrong is to commit it
against those who have committed it in the past. So the only way to
right the wrong of discrimination against blacks is to discriminate
against whites, and the only way to right the wrong of
discrimination against women is to discriminate against men.
Mostly, it seems to be more (for those people) about being the ones
to decide who to discriminate against than about righting any
wrongs.

And when you say it out loud, it's clear how silly an idea it is.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Dorothy J Heydt

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Mar 14, 2018, 5:30:08 PM3/14/18
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In article <p8btn2$dpd$1...@dont-email.me>,
Who's running DAW? It was Elsie Wollheim, and then Betsy; but I
haven't dealt with them in years.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

Dimensional Traveler

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Mar 14, 2018, 5:54:59 PM3/14/18
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I would have no problem with that if that kind of discrimination was
carried out against the individuals who actually did discriminate.
("What goes around, comes around" would seem to apply here. For both
sides.) What I object to is discrimination against the descendants who
themselves had nothing to do with the original transgression.

And since we're writing this rather than saying it out loud, it
obviously can't be a silly idea. ;)

--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.

Default User

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Mar 14, 2018, 7:27:53 PM3/14/18
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According to their web site, Betsy Wollheim and Sheila E. Gilbert.


Brian

Dorothy J Heydt

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Mar 14, 2018, 8:15:05 PM3/14/18
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In article <p8cb5m$cok$1...@dont-email.me>,
So there you are.

Robert Carnegie

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Mar 14, 2018, 8:53:14 PM3/14/18
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If it may matter, the reviewer was writing that at tor.com.

Robert Woodward

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Mar 15, 2018, 12:47:05 AM3/15/18
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In article <94eb8189-487b-4a0f...@googlegroups.com>,
It appears that James has sworn an oath to have nothing to do with a
certain publisher (I am not certain if she did anything).

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
—-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robe...@drizzle.com

Ninapenda Jibini

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Mar 15, 2018, 2:02:05 AM3/15/18
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Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote in
news:p8c5ng$91o$1...@dont-email.me:
Being exactly the same kind of asshole you pretend you don't like,
but actually want to emulate. Sure. Got it. Hypocrisy is an ugly
cloak to wear. But if it fits, hey, it fits.

--
Terry Austin

Greg Weeks

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Mar 15, 2018, 9:11:37 AM3/15/18
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Isn't DAW an imprint of Penguin Random House, or did they manage to maintain independence? Their web site is on the Penguin web site.

Greg

James Nicoll

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Mar 15, 2018, 9:12:09 AM3/15/18
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In article <robertaw-472B92...@news.individual.net>,
She was greedy enough for a best editor hugo despite not having
done anything demonstrably worthy of it to take part in the Puppies
debacle.

Lawrence Watt-Evans

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Mar 15, 2018, 12:16:34 PM3/15/18
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They're distributed by Penguin, but I believe they're still otherwise
independent.



--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Stone Unturned: A Legend of Ethshar.
See http://www.ethshar.com/StoneUnturned.shtml

Robert Woodward

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Mar 15, 2018, 1:10:34 PM3/15/18
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In article
<uv6lad9sk48j32il8...@reader80.eternal-september.org>,
Lawrence Watt-Evans <misencha...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 06:11:33 -0700 (PDT), Greg Weeks
> <gweeks....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 5:30:08 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> In article <p8btn2$dpd$1...@dont-email.me>,
> >> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
> >> >
> >> >Is Baen the only woman led publisher now ?
> >>
> >> Who's running DAW? It was Elsie Wollheim, and then Betsy; but I
> >> haven't dealt with them in years.
> >
> >Isn't DAW an imprint of Penguin Random House, or did they manage to maintain
> >independence? Their web site is on the Penguin web site.
>
> They're distributed by Penguin, but I believe they're still otherwise
> independent.

Just as Baen is distributed by Simon & Schuster, but is otherwise
independent.

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
-------------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robe...@drizzle.com

Lynn McGuire

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Mar 15, 2018, 2:56:44 PM3/15/18
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Wow, that is a bold statement.

Lynn

Robert Woodward

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Mar 16, 2018, 12:48:17 AM3/16/18
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In article <p8drf3$823$1...@reader2.panix.com>,
Is this a case of the damnable behavior of the publisher in the daytime?
"Holmes, she did nothing."
"That is the damnable behavior."

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
ã-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robe...@drizzle.com
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