[The 2017 Prometheus Award Finalists] The Mandibles: A Family, 2029-2047 by Lionel Shriver

[James Nicoll]

The Mandibles: A Family, 2029-2047 by Lionel Shriver

http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/im-riding-high-upon-a-deep-depression
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Livejournal at http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <odnjvo$45l$1...@reader1.panix.com>,

James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>The Mandibles: A Family, 2029-2047 by Lionel Shriver
>
>http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/im-riding-high-upon-a-deep-depression

Um ... does Shriver at any point explain how the US comes to have
a foreign-born President by 2029?

There would've had to be a major Constitutional amendment passed
between the time the book was written and the time in which it
take place, since the Presidency is open only to natural born
citizens of the US (or, at the time of ratification, foreign-born
persons who were already citizens; but those are all dead by now).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

[Steve Coltrin]

begin fnord
jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:

> http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/im-riding-high-upon-a-deep-depression

Why are you doing this to yourself?

--
Steve Coltrin spco...@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press

[James Nicoll]

In article <m2y3uo7...@kelutral.omcl.org>,

Steve Coltrin <spco...@omcl.org> wrote:
>begin fnord
>jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
>
>> http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/im-riding-high-upon-a-deep-depression
>
>Why are you doing this to yourself?
>

Poor judgment.

[James Nicoll]

In article <ooz22...@kithrup.com>,

Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>In article <odnjvo$45l$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>The Mandibles: A Family, 2029-2047 by Lionel Shriver
>>
>>http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/im-riding-high-upon-a-deep-depression
>
>Um ... does Shriver at any point explain how the US comes to have
>a foreign-born President by 2029?

Yes, rather unconvincingly.

[Peter Trei]

On Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 2:19:24 PM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <m2y3uo7...@kelutral.omcl.org>,
> Steve Coltrin <spco...@omcl.org> wrote:
> >begin fnord
> >jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
> >
> >> http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/im-riding-high-upon-a-deep-depression
> >
> >Why are you doing this to yourself?
> >
> Poor judgment.

So, stop.

Life is too short to carry out what has proved to be a bad idea to the bitter
end.

pt

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <odo40n$9i6$1...@reader1.panix.com>,

James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <ooz22...@kithrup.com>,
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>In article <odnjvo$45l$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>>James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>The Mandibles: A Family, 2029-2047 by Lionel Shriver
>>>
>>>http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/im-riding-high-upon-a-deep-depression
>>
>>Um ... does Shriver at any point explain how the US comes to have
>>a foreign-born President by 2029?
>
>Yes, rather unconvincingly.

Okay. Just so long as she was not unware, at the time of
writing, of the current state of the Constitution.

[Steve Coltrin]

begin fnord

Though I'm not sure how much stew you should make from that one oyster.

[Robert Carnegie]

On Tuesday, 25 April 2017 20:55:50 UTC+1, Steve Coltrin wrote:
> begin fnord
> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>
> > In article <odo40n$9i6$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> > James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> >>In article <ooz22...@kithrup.com>,
> >>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>Um ... does Shriver at any point explain how the US comes to have
> >>>a foreign-born President by 2029?
> >>
> >>Yes, rather unconvincingly.
> >
> > Okay. Just so long as she was not unware, at the time of
> > writing, of the current state of the Constitution.
>
> Though I'm not sure how much stew you should make from that one oyster.

I shouldn't argue without reading the book,
but, how important is it that this President
is foreign-born? Besides that being where
the blame lies for the financial emperor's
wardrobe problem.

Lionel Shriver (transgender in name only)
seems relatively sane when she talks to the BBC,
and <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Shriver>
says that when doing so, she denied that this
book is science fiction - a following quote
isn't hers but it sounds like the story is
more about how it could be to live (and has
been before) when the American economy breaks,
than about how it happens, except that it
/could/ happen, and that the economy depends
/now/ on people continuing to believe six
impossible things before breakfast every day.

[David Johnston]

I'm guessing President Alvarez is a fictionalization of Ted Cruz who was
indeed a foreign born presidential candidate and probably would have
been the Republican nominee had Trump not upset the apple-cart...despite
Cruz having to renounce his Canadian citizenship. The issue you see is
that "natural-born" has never been defined in American law but the most
reasonable interpretation is "was a citizen at birth" (not naturalized).
Cruz was born an American citizen thanks to his American mother and thus
was good to go.

[James Nicoll]

In article <f1b71934-0cda-4b68...@googlegroups.com>,

Stubbornness is for me what beer is to Homer Simpson: the source of and
solution to all my problems.

[Stephen Graham]

On 4/25/2017 4:11 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <f1b71934-0cda-4b68...@googlegroups.com>,
> Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 2:19:24 PM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
>>> In article <m2y3uo7...@kelutral.omcl.org>,
>>> Steve Coltrin <spco...@omcl.org> wrote:
>>>> begin fnord
>>>> jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
>>>>
>>>>> http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/im-riding-high-upon-a-deep-depression
>>>>
>>>> Why are you doing this to yourself?
>>>>
>>> Poor judgment.
>>
>> So, stop.
>>
>> Life is too short to carry out what has proved to be a bad idea to the bitter
>> end.
>>
>
> Stubbornness is for me what beer is to Homer Simpson: the source of and
> solution to all my problems.

And there's always the hope that Ken Macleod will come through.

[Dimensional Traveler]

On 4/25/2017 4:11 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <f1b71934-0cda-4b68...@googlegroups.com>,
> Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 2:19:24 PM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
>>> In article <m2y3uo7...@kelutral.omcl.org>,
>>> Steve Coltrin <spco...@omcl.org> wrote:
>>>> begin fnord
>>>> jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
>>>>
>>>>> http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/im-riding-high-upon-a-deep-depression
>>>>
>>>> Why are you doing this to yourself?
>>>>
>>> Poor judgment.
>>
>> So, stop.
>>
>> Life is too short to carry out what has proved to be a bad idea to the bitter
>> end.
>>
>
> Stubbornness is for me what beer is to Homer Simpson: the source of and
> solution to all my problems.
>

If one removes the source of the problems, one does not need a solution
for them. :)

--
Some days you just don't have enough middle fingers!

[hamis...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 9:11:12 AM UTC+10, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <f1b71934-0cda-4b68...@googlegroups.com>,
> Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 2:19:24 PM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> >> In article <m2y3uo7...@kelutral.omcl.org>,
> >> Steve Coltrin <spco...@omcl.org> wrote:
> >> >begin fnord
> >> >jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
> >> >
> >> >> http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/im-riding-high-upon-a-deep-depression
> >> >
> >> >Why are you doing this to yourself?
> >> >
> >> Poor judgment.
> >
> >So, stop.
> >
> >Life is too short to carry out what has proved to be a bad idea to the bitter
> >end.
> >
>
> Stubbornness is for me what beer is to Homer Simpson: the source of and
> solution to all my problems.

Yes, but beer is actually a solution.

[Gene Wirchenko]

What about if the U.S.A. annexes Canada and I later become
president? I would be foreign-born and president.

Note to U.S.A.: Please do not annex Canada; I do not want to be
president.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

[Robert Woodward]

In article <odo40n$9i6$1...@reader1.panix.com>,

jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:

> In article <ooz22...@kithrup.com>,
> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> >In article <odnjvo$45l$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> >James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> >>The Mandibles: A Family, 2029-2047 by Lionel Shriver
> >>
> >>http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/im-riding-high-upon-a-deep-depression
> >
> >Um ... does Shriver at any point explain how the US comes to have
> >a foreign-born President by 2029?
>
> Yes, rather unconvincingly.

So, not born to US citizens (both born in the USA) while they were
living outside the country?

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
ã-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robe...@drizzle.com

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <0490gc9fpa3pmfui1...@4ax.com>,

Gene Wirchenko <ge...@telus.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:37:45 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>Heydt) wrote:
>
>>In article <odnjvo$45l$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>>James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>The Mandibles: A Family, 2029-2047 by Lionel Shriver
>>>
>>>http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/im-riding-high-upon-a-deep-depression
>>
>>Um ... does Shriver at any point explain how the US comes to have
>>a foreign-born President by 2029?
>>
>>There would've had to be a major Constitutional amendment passed
>>between the time the book was written and the time in which it
>>take place, since the Presidency is open only to natural born
>>citizens of the US (or, at the time of ratification, foreign-born
>>persons who were already citizens; but those are all dead by now).
>>
>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause
>
> What about if the U.S.A. annexes Canada and I later become
>president? I would be foreign-born and president.
>

Or if you were a 300 year old vampire. That could work too.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[hamis...@gmail.com]

Dunkelzahn...

[James Nicoll]

In article <robertaw-27BE29...@news.individual.net>,

Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com> wrote:
>In article <odo40n$9i6$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>
>> In article <ooz22...@kithrup.com>,
>> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> >In article <odnjvo$45l$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>> >James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>> >>The Mandibles: A Family, 2029-2047 by Lionel Shriver
>> >>
>> >>http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/im-riding-high-upon-a-deep-depression
>> >
>> >Um ... does Shriver at any point explain how the US comes to have
>> >a foreign-born President by 2029?
>>
>> Yes, rather unconvincingly.
>
>So, not born to US citizens (both born in the USA) while they were
>living outside the country?
>

The constitutional change was a sop to the US's growing Latino population,
as I recall. The Democratic Party kept the Latinos on side with it, which
means the Republicans are shut out of the White House. Since possibly the
GWB years. Near future SF ages fast.

[Jay E. Morris]

Ok, time to annex Canada. But we'll give you an early out if you do well.

[Robert Carnegie]

On Wednesday, 26 April 2017 13:10:31 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <robertaw-27BE29...@news.individual.net>,
> Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com> wrote:
> >In article <odo40n$9i6$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> > jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
> >
> >> In article <ooz22...@kithrup.com>,
> >> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> >> >In article <odnjvo$45l$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> >> >James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> >>The Mandibles: A Family, 2029-2047 by Lionel Shriver
> >> >>
> >> >>http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/im-riding-high-upon-a-deep-depression
> >> >
> >> >Um ... does Shriver at any point explain how the US comes to have
> >> >a foreign-born President by 2029?
> >>
> >> Yes, rather unconvincingly.
> >
> >So, not born to US citizens (both born in the USA) while they were
> >living outside the country?
> >
> The constitutional change was a sop to the US's growing Latino population,
> as I recall. The Democratic Party kept the Latinos on side with it, which
> means the Republicans are shut out of the White House. Since possibly the
> GWB years. Near future SF ages fast.

I've just had a "TV Tropes" session that
mentioned the talked-of amendment to allow
President Schwarzenegger to serve - in the
context of sci-fi film _Demolition Man_,
where he is represented as a library.

It's been said that in real life he did not
do anything important as state governor.
That seems to be what some people want
from a president.

The hero of _Demolition Man_is played by
Sylvester Stallone.

[Gene Wirchenko]

>Ok, time to annex Canada. But we'll give you an early out if you do well.

Drat! I was hoping to count on the support of rasfw. C'mon,
show some empathy: think what being president would do to my sf
reading time.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko