what book of Terry Pratchett's to read?

[Lynn McGuire]

I have yet to read a single book of Sir Terry Pratchett's. What book would you recommend the most? My favorite genres are Space
Opera, Urban Fantasy, Apocalyptic, and Dystopian. I am not a big fan of pure fantasy, especially of unicorns existing peacefully in
beautiful meadows, farting to beat the band. Except _Ariel_.

One of my friends recommended "The Long Earth" series to me:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Long-Earth-Terry-Pratchett/dp/0062068687/

Thanks,
Lynn

[Shawn Wilson]

On Monday, March 16, 2015 at 1:37:11 PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:

> I have yet to read a single book of Sir Terry Pratchett's. What book would you recommend the most? My favorite genres are Space
> Opera, Urban Fantasy, Apocalyptic, and Dystopian. I am not a big fan of pure fantasy, especially of unicorns existing peacefully in
> beautiful meadows, farting to beat the band. Except _Ariel_.

Heh, heh, heh...

OK, Discworld. That's what he's is know for, for a reason.

First, Discworld is not a series per se. It is a bunch of independent novels that only in a vague way form any sort of continuous narrative. People have life stories, but you don't need any kind of big backstory.

So, you can basically look at them all on the shelf there and pick whatever looks interesting without worries about coming in on a story with book 3 or anything.


That said, the stories come in a handful of 'sets'.

There are the Rincewind novels, focusing on an incompetent and cowardly wizzard who happens to be a favorite pawn of a Discworld god in their games and so is invariably involved in things that can affect the fate of the entire Disc.

Then there are the Death/Susan stories. Death is *Death*, and SPEAKS IN ALL CAPS. So, you see someone speak that way and that's Death. Susan is his granddaughter via his adopted daughter. They get involved in more mataphysical attacks on the Disc, via antagonists known as the 'Auditors' of reality.

There are the Lancre/Witches stories, starring Granny Weatherwax and Nanny Ogg.

There is the Ankh-Morpork city watch stories, the longest and best group.

There are also some 'independent' novels not part of any larger series.

Moist von Lipwig is now his own series because there are three of them.

The Tiffany Aching children's books. Tiffany is a very young witch.

So, for you I recommend the City Watch ("urban fantasy..."). start with 'Guards, Guards' which is where they start. Also good though not directly city watch is 'The Truth' (freestanding).

> One of my friends recommended "The Long Earth" series to me:
> http://www.amazon.com/The-Long-Earth-Terry-Pratchett/dp/0062068687/

Sorry, but no. The long earth series isn't bad, but don't.

[Konrad Gaertner]

On 3/16/2015 3:37 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> I have yet to read a single book of Sir Terry Pratchett's. What book
> would you recommend the most? My favorite genres are Space Opera, Urban
> Fantasy, Apocalyptic, and Dystopian. I am not a big fan of pure
> fantasy, especially of unicorns existing peacefully in beautiful
> meadows, farting to beat the band. Except _Ariel_.

The one I recommend the most is _Guards! Guards!_, which starts the
Watch sub-series of Discworld.


--
Konrad Gaertner - - - - - - - - - - - - email: kgae...@tx.rr.com
http://kgbooklog.livejournal.com/
"I don't mind hidden depths but I insist that there be a surface."
-- James Nicoll

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 15:37:07 -0500, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote:

>I have yet to read a single book of Sir Terry Pratchett's. What book would you recommend the most? My favorite genres are Space
>Opera, Urban Fantasy, Apocalyptic, and Dystopian. I am not a big fan of pure fantasy, especially of unicorns existing peacefully in
>beautiful meadows, farting to beat the band.

Pratchett never did that sort of thing.

> Except _Ariel_.
>
>One of my friends recommended "The Long Earth" series to me:
> http://www.amazon.com/The-Long-Earth-Terry-Pratchett/dp/0062068687/

They're basically written by Baxter, from a short by Pratchett in the
90s, so barely count.

From the Discworld set, I'd suggest trying _Guards! Guards!_ - it's the
first in the City Watch loose subseries, so has a fair chunk more noir
and urban than some of the others. Outside that I'd suggest _Strata_.

But I'm not greatly convinced you'll like him at all, given your tastes.
Cheers - Jaimie
--
"I love the way that Microsoft follows standards.
In much the same manner as fish follow migrating caribou."
- Paul Tomblin, ASR

[Moriarty]

If you want apocalyptic Pratchett, try "Good Omens", the collaboration he did with Neil Gaiman. It's not discworld but is one of the best.

Of the discworld novels, I'd go for "Monstrous Regiment". It's a standalone and one of the best. The plot concerns a young girl, Polly Perks, who disguises herself as a boy to join the army.

-Moriarty

[Lynn McGuire]

Three votes so I ordered _Guards! Guards!_ but out of stock at Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0062225758/

I did like Carrie Vaughn's _Voices of Dragons_ book. But, it was not a comedy.
http://www.amazon.com/Voices-Dragons-Carrie-Vaughn/dp/B006OHZAYE/

Lynn

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 14:29:32 -0700 (PDT), Moriarty
<blu...@ivillage.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, March 17, 2015 at 7:37:11 AM UTC+11, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> I have yet to read a single book of Sir Terry Pratchett's. What book would you recommend the most? My favorite genres are Space
>> Opera, Urban Fantasy, Apocalyptic, and Dystopian. I am not a big fan of pure fantasy, especially of unicorns existing peacefully in
>> beautiful meadows, farting to beat the band. Except _Ariel_.
>>
>> One of my friends recommended "The Long Earth" series to me:
>> http://www.amazon.com/The-Long-Earth-Terry-Pratchett/dp/0062068687/
>
>If you want apocalyptic Pratchett, try "Good Omens", the collaboration he did with Neil Gaiman. It's not discworld but is one of the best.

And playing the who-wrote-which-bit game is reputedly impossible, as
they had fun writing as each other in many ways and never annotated who
did what so it's all lost to the mists now. Except that Terry wrote the
maggots bit.

>Of the discworld novels, I'd go for "Monstrous Regiment". It's a standalone and one of the best. The plot concerns a young girl, Polly Perks, who disguises herself as a boy to join the army.

I must re-read that - I didn't even think of it, and it's a good choice.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
Happiness, n.: An agreeable sensation arising from contemplating the
misery of another. - Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

[Jerry Brown]

On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 15:37:07 -0500, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com>
wrote:

I didn't care for Discworld but I loved Strata, a semi-parody of
Niven's Ringworld but a decent SF novel in its own right.

--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)

[Shawn Wilson]

On Monday, March 16, 2015 at 2:31:27 PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:

> > So, for you I recommend the City Watch ("urban fantasy..."). start with 'Guards, Guards' which is where they start. Also good though not directly city watch is 'The Truth' (freestanding).

> Three votes so I ordered _Guards! Guards!_ but out of stock at Amazon.
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0062225758/

While we're on the topic, and to familiarize yourself with the setting...

Shawn's guide to proper nouns on the Disk (ie important people and
places)-

Places-

Discworld- a flat (indeed, disk shaped....) world supported on the
backs of four rather large elephants which themselves stand on the
back of a giant turtle (not tortoise, turtles are sea creatures, not
land creatures like tortoises. It has fins rather than feet.) named
the great A'Tuin, which swims through space. Where it's going, and
why no one knows. We know it reproduces by spawning little turtles
with their own little elephants and little disks. We don't know
whether it's male, female, androgynous, or other, or specifically how
it reproduces. Despite the differences, the Discworld is basically a
satire of our own. (note- satire makes fun of reality, parody makes
fun of art forms. The Daily Show is both a parody of a new program
and a satire of reality. Sound smart at parties...). Note- the
oceans run off the sides and disappear, presumably reappearing
somewhere to continue the cycle.


Ankh-Morpork- the largest city on the Disk, but not the only large
city. Basically it's a satire of London around the early 19th
century. It was long ago the capital of an empire, but the empire is
gone. Now it is merely an independent city-state among a number of
others. It used to have a king (even after the empire), but the last
King (Lorenzo the Kind, said to love children, it what sense is
unclear...) was killed by Watch Commander Suffer-Not-Injustice Vimes
(aka Stoneface Vimes, modeled on Oliver Cromwell) as a public service
in response to his excesses. Since then it has been ruled by an
official called the Patrician, chosen by the city's nobles and guild
leaders, who rules until killed or removed. The city is built around
the Tower or Art of the Unseen University, and is a twin city composed
of wealthy Ankh and poor but vibrant (read- dangerous, even in
daylight...) Morpork. Most books revolve around Ankh-Morpork.

Unseen University is the greatest institute of magical instruction on
the Disk.


The Sto Plains- the region of the Disk occupied by Ankh-Morpork,
basically modeled on Europe culturally speaking. Note the geography
of the Disk is unrelated to Earth geography, though the societies are
similar. Notable other cities include fashionable Quirm (modeled on
Paris), and exotic Genua (modeled loosely on New Orleans). The major
economic activity of the Sto Plains is growing 50 varieties of cabbage
(note, a great many not-cabbage-like vegetables are in fact related to
cabbage, like broccoli, lettuce, onions, etc), which is to say farming
in general.


XXXX- The Last Continent, strongly modeled on Australia. Visited by
Rincewind in .The Last Continent'.


Agatean Empire- Modeled on China. Actively discourages any contact
with the outside world and the whole place is walled off. Gold is as
common there as copper is elsewhere, so travellers from there with
gold coins make the place seem extremely rich. While pretty
prosperous and advanced, it isn't really any richer than the Sto
plains. Visited by Rincewind in 'Interesting Times''. Now ruled by
Cohwen the Abrbarian and th


Howondaland- Modeled on deepest africa.


Klatch- a geographic region not a country, with aspects of pan-Arabia
and India. When Ankh-Morpork fights wars it is generally with
political entities in Klatch.


Uberwald- modeled on eastern Europe, another geographic region rather
than a country. There are vampires and werewolves and mad scientists
and Igors aplenty there.


Ramtop mountains- borders on the Sto Plains and Uberwald. Contains
many small mountain communities and mico-Kingdoms. Culturally an
extension of the Sto Plains.


Lancre- one of those small mountain kingdoms in the Ramtops.


Cor Celesti- giant mountain at the center of the disk that rises like
the needle in a record album. On top of Cor Celesti is Dunmanifestin,
home of the Gods.


Copperhead- large Dwarven community and the source of most on Ankh-
Morpork's dwarven immigrants. Dwarves in general are very
conservative, but Copperhead less so than others.


People-

Rincewind- First Pratchett hero. A wizard incompetent in his craft to
the point of never being able to even try to do magic, let alone
trying and failing. Because wizards are born rather than made, he
does have some of the bennies of being a wizard and thus really is one
despite his incompetence. He has 'Wizzard' written on his hat so
people will know he is one, he sure as hell can't show them his
ability... (yes, it is mispelled...) He does have the virtues of
being able to run fast and beg for his life in every language of the
Disk. (does it go without saying that he is also a coward?). The
Gods of the Disk are real, and pass the time playing games with humans
as their pawns. Rincewind is the unwitting pawn of 'The
Lady' (presumably the goddess of luck), and as a result frequently
finds himself in situations where the fate of the Disk rests on his
actions. This is also why he has travelled over so much of the Disk.
Accompanied by 'The Luggage' which is a sentient homicidal magical
trunk on legs that protects Rincewind from harm (sometimes) and can
follow him through time and space.


Two-Flower- Naive Agatean tourist and original owner of the Luggage.
Hired Rincewind as his guide.


Cohen the Barbarian (aka Genghis Cohen)- The greatest barbarian hero
in history, now 90 years old and feeling every year of it. Still the
greatest barbarian hero in the world despite his age, because he is
Just That Good.


Silver Horde- a handful of Cohen's equally super-annuated buddies.
They are old men, but they are the best in the world. If they could
be killed someone would have already. Like Cohen they are Just That
Good. Cohen and the Silver Horde conquer the Agatean Empire in
'Interesting Times'. In 'The Last Hero' they infiltrate Dunmanifestin
to 'return fire to the Gods', mostly because they are upset that the
gods allowed them to grow old. Whether they are alive or dead is
ambiguous now.


Granny Weatherwax- most powerful witch on the Disk. A good witch by
choice, but not by nature. Inhabitant of Lancre.


Nanny Ogg, lifelong friend of Granny Weatherwax, and probably the
'best' witch on the Disk. Almost certainly the best midwife in the
history of the Disk, as the husband of the goddess of Time choose her
to deliver their child.


Magrat Garlick- junior Lancre witch. Has 'modern' views. Competent,
but viewed as silly by Granny and Nanny Ogg. While she is competent,
they are the best...

Death- seven foot skeleton in a robe with a scythe. Compassionate and
good at his job. Sometime oppooent of the Auditors, who hate life and
want to destroy it. Adoptive grandfather of Susan Sto Helit.


Susan Sto Helit- adopted granddaughter of death (Death adopted her
mother and her father was Death's apprentice for a little while).
Tries to live as normal a life as she can, but being death's
granddaughter does not help.

Albert- Death's man of all work. Once a powerful human magician who
made too many enemies on the Other Side. Being Death's servant puts
off his day of reconing.

Death of Rats- a small aspect of Death (who is the Death of all things
on the Disk), that specializes in rodents. A six inch rat skeleton in
a cowl with a small scythe. Allowed continued independent existence
by Death for his own reasons.


Verence II, king of Lancre and husband of Magrat. A Fool by
profession and training, he has a serious and bookish attitude he now
applies to being a King.


Tiffany Aching- a young girl on the Sto Plains now learning to be a
witch, sometimes aided by Granny Weatherwax and Nanny Ogg.


Albert Spangler/ Moist Von Lipwig- a career con artist caught and
officially executed by Lord Vetinari for his actions. Vetinari is not
one to waste talent and put him in charge of Ankh-Morpork's moribund
post office after the 'hanging'.


Samuel Vimes- Commander of the Watch and Duke of Ankh-Morpork. A
career watchman, now in the process of inventing professional
policing. Is married to Sybil, the richest woman in Ankh-Morpork,
after meeting her during an investigation. Largely the creation of
Lord Vetinari, who is expert at manipulating him. Was made a Duke by
Lord Vetinari and doesn't like it.


Captain Carrot Ironfoundersson- human orphan adopted by Dwarves, now
captain of the Watch and assistant to Sam Vimes. Big, tough, strong,
kind, decent and good. Has nigh on supernatural charisma and an
affinity for Ankh-Morpork. Also has a sword that's always sharp (and
a grindstone...) and a crown shaped birthmark. Resembles pictures of
the old ruling family. Evidence that some have collected that he is
the rightful heir to the throne has a tendency to get lost after
finding its way into Carrot's hands. Everyone likes Carrot. Carrot
seems to know everyone in the city.


Sgt Angua- member of the Watch and Carrot's girlfriend. Practical
minded and has the rare quality of common sense. A Werewolf, which
strains her relationship with Carrot, though mostly in her own mind.

Lord Havelock Vetinari, Patrician of Ankh-Morpork. Absolute ruler of
the city, so long as the guild leaders and nobles don't remove him
from office. Makes Machiavelli look like an amateur. Generally a
decent man, but willing not to be if the sutuation calls for it.
Likely created the modern version of the Watch as a tool to contain
Carrot, as he was doing away with the Watch before Carrot showed up.
Libertarian Despot.

Gaspode- a talking, intelligent dog as a result of a magical accident
which made him smart. A mongrel and a filthy street dog par
excellance. People mostly don't believe dogs talk, so hearing him
they interpret as their own inner voice.


Mustrum Ridcully- Archchancellor of the Unseen University. One of the
most powerful wizards on the Disk. Vibrant outdoor type. Believes in
modern management. Once romantically involved with the young
Esmerelda (Granny) Weatherwax.


Librarian- librarian of Unseen University's (magical) library. Once
unremarkable until turned into an orangutan via a magical accident.
Has resisted attempts to turn him back and suppressed information
about what he was like before. People don't much notice that he's an
ape any more.


CMOT Dibbler- (Cut Me Own Throat, from his sales pitch) a seller of
hot sausages in a bun and multiply failed entrepreneur. Judging by
the quality of his product he is the greatest salesman ever. He's
even had repeat customers...

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Jaimie Vandenbergh <jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote in
news:70iega5m4pil1vssr...@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 15:37:07 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
>
>>I have yet to read a single book of Sir Terry Pratchett's. What
>>book would you recommend the most? My favorite genres are Space
>>Opera, Urban Fantasy, Apocalyptic, and Dystopian. I am not a
>>big fan of pure fantasy, especially of unicorns existing
>>peacefully in beautiful meadows, farting to beat the band.
>
> Pratchett never did that sort of thing.

And if he did, the unicorn farts would be toxic and eat through
stone, or something.

>
>> Except _Ariel_.
>>
>>One of my friends recommended "The Long Earth" series to me:
>> http://www.amazon.com/The-Long-Earth-Terry-Pratchett/dp/00620
>> 68687/
>
> They're basically written by Baxter, from a short by Pratchett
> in the 90s, so barely count.

And is the weakest of anything I've read with Pratchett's name on
it.

>
> From the Discworld set, I'd suggest trying _Guards! Guards!_ -
> it's the first in the City Watch loose subseries, so has a fair
> chunk more noir and urban than some of the others. Outside that
> I'd suggest _Strata_.
>
> But I'm not greatly convinced you'll like him at all, given your
> tastes.

Good first place to start.

The earlier Discworld stuff is fantasy, often a riff on Conan-esque
stuff. That later you go, though, the more steampunk it gets. The
last few are quite seriously so (and the TV production of Going
Postal nailed it).

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

[Joe Pfeiffer]

Jaimie Vandenbergh <jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> writes:

> On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 14:29:32 -0700 (PDT), Moriarty
> <blu...@ivillage.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tuesday, March 17, 2015 at 7:37:11 AM UTC+11, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> I have yet to read a single book of Sir Terry Pratchett's. What
>>> book would you recommend the most? My favorite genres are Space
>>> Opera, Urban Fantasy, Apocalyptic, and Dystopian. I am not a big
>>> fan of pure fantasy, especially of unicorns existing peacefully in
>>> beautiful meadows, farting to beat the band. Except _Ariel_.
>>>
>>> One of my friends recommended "The Long Earth" series to me:
>>> http://www.amazon.com/The-Long-Earth-Terry-Pratchett/dp/0062068687/
>>
>>If you want apocalyptic Pratchett, try "Good Omens", the
>> collaboration he did with Neil Gaiman. It's not discworld but is one
>> of the best.
>
> And playing the who-wrote-which-bit game is reputedly impossible, as
> they had fun writing as each other in many ways and never annotated who
> did what so it's all lost to the mists now. Except that Terry wrote the
> maggots bit.
>
>>Of the discworld novels, I'd go for "Monstrous Regiment". It's a
>> standalone and one of the best. The plot concerns a young girl,
>> Polly Perks, who disguises herself as a boy to join the army.
>
> I must re-read that - I didn't even think of it, and it's a good choice.

The funny thing is I regard that one as one of the weakest. It's one of
the few where the Moral is being laid on so heavily that (for me,
anyway) it sort of smothered the story.

"Night Watch" might be my favorite. It's sure up there (it's one of the
least humorous, incidentally).

[Robert Bannister]

On 17/03/2015 7:03 am, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
> Jaimie Vandenbergh <jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote in
> news:70iega5m4pil1vssr...@4ax.com:
>
>> On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 15:37:07 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>> <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
>>

>>> One of my friends recommended "The Long Earth" series to me:
>>> http://www.amazon.com/The-Long-Earth-Terry-Pratchett/dp/00620
>>> 68687/
>>
>> They're basically written by Baxter, from a short by Pratchett
>> in the 90s, so barely count.
>
> And is the weakest of anything I've read with Pratchett's name on
> it.

It is simultaneously the worst book by Baxter that I've read.
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia

[Moriarty]

On Tuesday, March 17, 2015 at 8:33:42 AM UTC+11, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 14:29:32 -0700 (PDT), Moriarty
> <blu...@ivillage.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, March 17, 2015 at 7:37:11 AM UTC+11, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >> I have yet to read a single book of Sir Terry Pratchett's. What book would you recommend the most? My favorite genres are Space
> >> Opera, Urban Fantasy, Apocalyptic, and Dystopian. I am not a big fan of pure fantasy, especially of unicorns existing peacefully in
> >> beautiful meadows, farting to beat the band. Except _Ariel_.
> >>
> >> One of my friends recommended "The Long Earth" series to me:
> >> http://www.amazon.com/The-Long-Earth-Terry-Pratchett/dp/0062068687/
> >
> >If you want apocalyptic Pratchett, try "Good Omens", the collaboration he did with Neil Gaiman. It's not discworld but is one of the best.
>
> And playing the who-wrote-which-bit game is reputedly impossible, as
> they had fun writing as each other in many ways and never annotated who
> did what so it's all lost to the mists now. Except that Terry wrote the
> maggots bit.
>
> >Of the discworld novels, I'd go for "Monstrous Regiment". It's a standalone and one of the best. The plot concerns a young girl, Polly Perks, who disguises herself as a boy to join the army.
>
> I must re-read that - I didn't even think of it, and it's a good choice.

"Monstrous Regiment" has the added bonus for Lynn in that it's a book with a military flavour to it, the sort of book he seems to like.

Oh well, he's gone with "Guards Guards", and a mighty fine choice that is too.

Lynn, if you really don't like GG, don't give up straight away, it took me three or four books before I really got into Pratchett. The one that got me hooked was "Soul Music" as it's central theme is rock music, something that's right up my alley but which may leave you cold if it's not your thing. Similarly, a friend of mine, who's a bit of a film buff, got pointed at "Moving Pictures" and loved it.

Other books with definite themes that may, or may not, appeal:

The Last Continent - Australia
Small Gods - Organised religion
Interesting Times - China
Maskerade - Opera
Carpe Jugulum - Vampires
Lords and Ladies - Shakespeare (especially A Midsummer Night's Dream)
Unseen Academicals - Soccer and soccer holligans
The Truth - Newspapers

-Moriarty

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Personally I would start with the books featuring the City Watch.

The first of these is _Guards! Guards!_.

In some sense, the City Watch is a microcosm of what Pratchett was doing
with Discworld in general, and the usual presence of a mystery to be
solved helps to focus the plot.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <dtiega58l9q1kiu3k...@4ax.com>,

Jaimie Vandenbergh <jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote:
>On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 14:29:32 -0700 (PDT), Moriarty
><blu...@ivillage.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tuesday, March 17, 2015 at 7:37:11 AM UTC+11, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> I have yet to read a single book of Sir Terry Pratchett's. What book
>would you recommend the most? My favorite genres are Space
>>> Opera, Urban Fantasy, Apocalyptic, and Dystopian. I am not a big fan
>of pure fantasy, especially of unicorns existing peacefully in
>>> beautiful meadows, farting to beat the band. Except _Ariel_.
>>>
>>> One of my friends recommended "The Long Earth" series to me:
>>> http://www.amazon.com/The-Long-Earth-Terry-Pratchett/dp/0062068687/
>>
>>If you want apocalyptic Pratchett, try "Good Omens", the collaboration
>he did with Neil Gaiman. It's not discworld but is one of the best.
>
>And playing the who-wrote-which-bit game is reputedly impossible, as
>they had fun writing as each other in many ways and never annotated who
>did what so it's all lost to the mists now. Except that Terry wrote the
>maggots bit.
>
>>Of the discworld novels, I'd go for "Monstrous Regiment". It's a
>standalone and one of the best. The plot concerns a young girl, Polly
>Perks, who disguises herself as a boy to join the army.
>
>I must re-read that - I didn't even think of it, and it's a good choice.
>

Enh. Not one of my favorites at all. If you want a (more-or-less)
standalone, I recommend something like _Moving Pictures_ or _The Truth_.

[Brian M. Scott]

On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 15:37:07 -0500, Lynn McGuire

<l...@winsim.com> wrote in<news:me7es5$hdc$1...@dont-email.me>
in rec.arts.sf.written:

> I have yet to read a single book of Sir Terry
> Pratchett's. What book would you recommend the most?

His second published novel, _The Dark Side of the Sun_.
It’s science fiction, not a Discworld novel.

[...]

Brian
--
It was the neap tide, when the baga venture out of their
holes to root for sandtatties. The waves whispered
rhythmically over the packed sand: haggisss, haggisss,
haggisss.

[Titus G]

Moriarty wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 17, 2015 at 7:37:11 AM UTC+11, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> I have yet to read a single book of Sir Terry Pratchett's. What
>> book would you recommend the most? My favorite genres are Space
>> Opera, Urban Fantasy, Apocalyptic, and Dystopian. I am not a big
>> fan of pure fantasy, especially of unicorns existing peacefully in
>> beautiful meadows, farting to beat the band. Except _Ariel_.

snip

> If you want apocalyptic Pratchett, try "Good Omens", the
> collaboration he did with Neil Gaiman. It's not discworld but is one
> of the best.

Good Omens: The Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter, Witch is my
favourite Pratchett. I also enjoyed Mort and Small Gods but they were
potboilers in comparison.

[Titus G]

Moriarty wrote:
snip

> Oh well, he's gone with "Guards Guards", and a mighty fine choice
> that is too.

> Lynn, if you really don't like GG, don't give up straight away, it
> took me three or four books before I really got into Pratchett. The
> one that got me hooked was "Soul Music" as it's central theme is rock
> music, something that's right up my alley but which may leave you
> cold if it's not your thing. Similarly, a friend of mine, who's a bit
> of a film buff, got pointed at "Moving Pictures" and loved it.

I stopped reading Pratchett after Moving Pictures which I thought was
shallow and nowhere near as clever as Mort or Small Gods. Based on this
thread, I am going to start again with Guards Guards.

[Robert Carnegie]

Not yet mentioned, books for any age of reader;
I think an adult can appreciate nuances more -

_Truckers_ is about little people like Borrowers
living fairly invisibly amongst present-day humans,
although Sir Terry claimed to be more interested
in Lilliput. The title refers to the major
enterprise of stealing a truck. There are two
sequels that run parallel to each other. It's
preachy humanism, in that the nomes have various
religious and traditional beliefs that are all
exposed as either straight fiction or
misinterpretation of ordinary things... such
as a vacuum-cleaner, or "Soul-Sucker" in their
mythology.

_Only You Can Save Mankind_ is about a young boy
whose video game alien enemies want to stop fighting
and surrender. It's quite magic-realist, particularly
when he meets another player who is female, likes to
be called Sigourney, and whose idea of what an alien
should look like has a particular, obvious influence.
The cast of children in these stories have a couple
of sequels as well.

These stories are funny and serious, and some of them
also exist as audio or video drama.

[David DeLaney]

On 2015-03-16, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
> I have yet to read a single book of Sir Terry Pratchett's. What book would
> you recommend the most?

Recommend the most? ... Night Watch.

Recommend you -start- with? Either Small Gods (which is a fairly standalone
Discworld, once he was up to speed), one of Wyrd Sisters / Guards! Guards! /
Reaper Man / Sourcery if you want to start at or near the beginning of one of
the threads of the books, or the first one, The Colour of Magic, if you're
interested in chronological order OR in seeing him get better with each new
book...

> My favorite genres are Space
> Opera, Urban Fantasy, Apocalyptic, and Dystopian. I am not a big fan of pure
> fantasy, especially of unicorns existing peacefully in
> beautiful meadows, farting to beat the band. Except _Ariel_.

I think we can safely classify the Discworld novels as "impure fantasy". You
might also want to check out the Mark Reads vlog series on them; Mark is also
starting from little or no knowledge and takes pains to remain spoiler-free,
and fell in excitement with the series before he finished the first book.

> One of my friends recommended "The Long Earth" series to me:
> http://www.amazon.com/The-Long-Earth-Terry-Pratchett/dp/0062068687/

Readable ... but they're making the big mistake of putting them out in a weird
size of paperback, that doesn't stack / store with anything else, so they're
library reading for me.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://gatekeeper.vic.com/~dbd/ -net.legends/Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[David DeLaney]

On 2015-03-16, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote:

> Three votes so I ordered _Guards! Guards!_ but out of stock at Amazon.
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0062225758/

Check your local library, and its interlibrary loan, then?

Dave, the forgotten resource

[David DeLaney]

On 2015-03-16, Shawn Wilson <ikono...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Despite the differences, the Discworld is basically a
> satire of our own.

And in the Science of Discworld books, the University wizards accidentally
create our own, then muck around in it. (Ours is lacking at least two
important narrative elements that help make up the Discworld, it seems.)

> King (Lorenzo the Kind, said to love children, it what sense is
> unclear...)

Oh, I think it was pretty clear. Just not stated explicitly. In any sense.

> Rincewind- First Pratchett hero. A wizard incompetent in his craft to
> the point of never being able to even try to do magic, let alone
> trying and failing.

... _Almost_ never. He does end up doing some, briefly.

> Cohen the Barbarian (aka Genghis Cohen)- The greatest barbarian hero
> in history, now 90 years old and feeling every year of it. Still the
> greatest barbarian hero in the world despite his age, because he is
> Just That Good.

And because you don't get to BE a 90-year-old barbarian hero without being
supremely excellent at the trade.

Dave

[David DeLaney]

On 2015-03-17, Titus G <tit...@jobbleuniversity.com> wrote:

I shall say that you have a lot of good stuff waiting, if that's where you
stopped.

Why, the very next one is Reaper Man, and IMO I don't see another slightly-
below-par one until maybe Jingo. And after that maybe Making Money. (And the
last few weren't up to Absolutely Superb but they still beat the pants off
most other fantasy being published.)

I await The Shepherd's Crown on tenterhooks.

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote in
news:cmp9g2...@mid.individual.net:

Given my usual opinion of Baxter (I haven't read that much of his
stuff), that's rather harsh.

[Shawn Wilson]

On Tuesday, March 17, 2015 at 3:16:45 AM UTC-7, Titus G wrote:


> I stopped reading Pratchett after Moving Pictures which I thought was
> shallow and nowhere near as clever as Mort or Small Gods.

Um, well, you are right and you are wrong. You are right in that Moving Pictures is not one of the good Discworld. You were wrong to stop though.

[Shawn Wilson]

On Tuesday, March 17, 2015 at 5:03:56 AM UTC-7, Robert Carnegie wrote:


> _Truckers_

AKA the first volume of the Bromeliad trilogy. I liked them. The first is the best though.

> _Only You Can Save Mankind_

AKA Johnny Maxwell trilogy. Also excellent. Later volumes hold up well.

[Shawn Wilson]

On Monday, March 16, 2015 at 1:37:11 PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> I have yet to read a single book of Sir Terry Pratchett's. What book would you recommend the most? My favorite genres are Space


I'm cheating here, as I am just cutting and pasting from posts I made years ago in another group. But, they are good and useful posts, so here I go again-

The 30+ novels come in several 'chains' with a few independents. In order (roughly) of the creation of said chains-

Generally read any chain in order, unless a volume is noted as
skippable, there is no inter-chain order)


Chain 1, Rincewind-

The Colour of Magic, The Light Fantastic, Sourcery, Eric-, Interesting
Times, The Last Continent, The Last Hero. (The Science of the
Discworld I, II, III)

(Interesting Times is good, as is The Last Hero. The others are
mediocre. No real need to read in any order)


Chain 2, Granny Weatherwax/Witches-

Equal Rites, Wyrd Sisters, Witches Abroad, Lords and Ladies,
Maskerade, Carpe Jugulum

(Equal Rites is skippable, as is Carpe Jugulum. Wyrd Sisters & Lords
and Ladies form a continuing narrative (Witches Abroad can be read
later. It describes a side trip that does not need to be read with
the other two, though it takes place between them. The fact of the
trip matters, but not what happens)


Chain 3, Death/Susan Sto Helit-

Mort, Reaper Man, Soul Music, Hogfather, Thief of Time

(Mort can be skipped)


Chain 4, City Watch/Sam Vimes-

Guards! Guards!, Men at Arms, Feet of Clay, Jingo, Fifth Elephant,
Night Watch, Thud!

(Uniformly excellent, Night Watch is likely THE best Discworld of all, but it needs to be read in its place)


Chain 5, Independents, non-Ankh-Morpork-

Pyramids, Small Gods, The Amazing Maurice and his Educated Rodents

(Generally good, no internal order)


Chain 6, Independents, Ankh-Morpork-

Moving Pictures, The Truth, Monstrous Regiment

(The Truth is excellent, Moving Pictures OK, I did not like Monstrous
Regiment. No internal order)


Chain 7, Tiffany Aching-

The Wee Free Men, Hat Full of Sky, Wintersmith, I Shall Wear Midnight

(Wonderful Witches crossover in Wintersmith)


Chain 8, Albert Spangler-

Going Postal, Making Money, Raising Steam

(Going Postal is good, Making Money is not so much)

[Anthony Nance]

David DeLaney <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On 2015-03-16, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
>> I have yet to read a single book of Sir Terry Pratchett's. What book would
>> you recommend the most?
>
> Recommend the most? ... Night Watch.
>
> Recommend you -start- with? Either Small Gods (which is a fairly standalone
> Discworld, once he was up to speed), one of Wyrd Sisters / Guards! Guards! /
> Reaper Man / Sourcery if you want to start at or near the beginning of one of
> the threads of the books, or the first one, The Colour of Magic, if you're
> interested in chronological order OR in seeing him get better with each new
> book...

I just started Discworld a few years ago. I decided on chronological
order, and it has worked fine for me.

As coincidence would have it, I needed to choose something new to
read the same day I learned of PTerry's passing, so I decided to
go downstairs and grab the next Discworld volume, whatever it was.
Turns out to be Mort, which somehow seemed fitting (and which I am
enjoying as my favorite in the series so far).

Tony

[Shawn Wilson]

On Tuesday, March 17, 2015 at 11:04:09 AM UTC-7, Anthony Nance wrote:


> As coincidence would have it, I needed to choose something new to
> read the same day I learned of PTerry's passing, so I decided to
> go downstairs and grab the next Discworld volume, whatever it was.
> Turns out to be Mort, which somehow seemed fitting (and which I am
> enjoying as my favorite in the series so far).

So, you are up to Mort, and it's your favorite so far? OK (I mean, I suppose if you're reading chronologically it is), but you have one hell of a ride ahead of you... I would say, looking at the list in chronological order that Wyrd Sisters is the inflection point.

[Magewolf]

Mort is a personal favorite as well. It is really the first Discworld,
the earlier books all had elements of what would come later but Mort was
where it all jelled into something great.

[Anthony Nance]

Shawn Wilson <ikono...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 17, 2015 at 11:04:09 AM UTC-7, Anthony Nance wrote:
>
>
>> As coincidence would have it, I needed to choose something new to
>> read the same day I learned of PTerry's passing, so I decided to
>> go downstairs and grab the next Discworld volume, whatever it was.
>> Turns out to be Mort, which somehow seemed fitting (and which I am
>> enjoying as my favorite in the series so far).
>
>
> So, you are up to Mort, and it's your favorite so far? OK (I mean, I suppose if you're reading chronologically it is), but you have one hell of a ride ahead of you...

I'm very much looking forward to it.

> I would say, looking at the list in chronological order that Wyrd Sisters is the inflection point.
>

Good to know, thanks.
- Tony

[Anthony Nance]

Yeah, I've definitely noticed the jelling, which makes me glad
to know there are so many more yet to read.

Tony

[Titus G]

David DeLaney wrote:
> On 2015-03-17, Titus G <tit...@jobbleuniversity.com> wrote:

snip

>> I stopped reading Pratchett after Moving Pictures which I thought was
>> shallow and nowhere near as clever as Mort or Small Gods. Based on
>> this thread, I am going to start again with Guards Guards.

> I shall say that you have a lot of good stuff waiting, if that's
> where you stopped.

Well, that's good news. It was many years ago and I did not read them in
sequence. I think I only read the three and Good Omens a few years ago.

> Why, the very next one is Reaper Man, and IMO I don't see another
> slightly- below-par one until maybe Jingo. And after that maybe
> Making Money. (And the last few weren't up to Absolutely Superb but
> they still beat the pants off most other fantasy being published.)

I think I will try Guards! Guards! first. Is it advisable to read them in
publication order?

[Shawn Wilson]

On Tuesday, March 17, 2015 at 12:54:13 PM UTC-7, Titus G wrote:


> I think I will try Guards! Guards! first. Is it advisable to read them in
> publication order?

Them? Discworld novels? No. Well, you CAN, but there's no benefit for doing so. Within a chain of related stories/characters? Yes.

[Gwydion Williams]

Try "The Colour of Magic". See if you like Discworld. I did find some of the later books a bit repetitive, recycling some well-established characters.

Even if you don't like it, do try The Long Earth by Terry Pratchett and Stephen Baxter. With two sequels, and probably Baxter will write more on the basis of whatever schema they had worked out.

You might like Strata, comic SF.

[William George Ferguson]

On 17 Mar 2015 03:59:06 GMT, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>)
wrote:

It should be mentioned that Rhianna is developing a 'Watch' series for the
Beeb.

Pterry named Rhianna his literary executor for Discworld, and gave her
explicit permission to continue writing in Discworld. Rhianna has said
that she doesn't think she will be writing any new novels, viewing her role
as custodian/gaurdian of her father's work. In addition to the Watch
series, she is also developing a Wee Free Men movie.

--
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
(Bene Gesserit)

[Robert Carnegie]

Note that _The Colour of Magic_ spends significant time
on parodies of particular fantasy situations - such as
the endearing roguish highwaymen, or the mountain lair
of the dragonriders - stood on their head. And also
the doings of the gods. This won't interest everybody,
but, persevere. Attnetion turns elsewhere - admittedly,
the next book has significant action takiing place in
a gingerbread cottage. But the gods mostly stay out
of it until _Small Gods_.

Also, you see a lot of Death, in person, starting with
a quick "Apppointment in Samarra" skit. This is Death
the skeleton in robes who gets around on a horse.
Discworld turns out to be the sort of place where
someone steals the horse. Death is good value.

[Doug Weller]

Strata maybe? That's more SF.
Doug

On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 21:23:36 +0000, in rec.arts.sf.written, Jaimie
Vandenbergh wrote:

>On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 15:37:07 -0500, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
>
>>I have yet to read a single book of Sir Terry Pratchett's. What book would you recommend the most? My favorite genres are Space
>>Opera, Urban Fantasy, Apocalyptic, and Dystopian. I am not a big fan of pure fantasy, especially of unicorns existing peacefully in
>>beautiful meadows, farting to beat the band.
>

>Pratchett never did that sort of thing.

>
>> Except _Ariel_.
>>
>>One of my friends recommended "The Long Earth" series to me:
>> http://www.amazon.com/The-Long-Earth-Terry-Pratchett/dp/0062068687/
>

>They're basically written by Baxter, from a short by Pratchett in the
>90s, so barely count.
>

>From the Discworld set, I'd suggest trying _Guards! Guards!_ - it's the
>first in the City Watch loose subseries, so has a fair chunk more noir
>and urban than some of the others. Outside that I'd suggest _Strata_.
>
>But I'm not greatly convinced you'll like him at all, given your tastes.
> Cheers - Jaimie
--
Doug Weller --
A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk
Amun - co-owner/co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/

[Doug Weller]

Just mentioned Strata. I enjoyed The Long Earth, although I'm a minority
in that.
Doug

[David DeLaney]

On 2015-03-17, Titus G <tit...@jobbleuniversity.com> wrote:

> David DeLaney wrote:
>> I shall say that you have a lot of good stuff waiting, if that's
>> where you stopped.
>
> Well, that's good news. It was many years ago and I did not read them in
> sequence. I think I only read the three and Good Omens a few years ago.
>
>> Why, the very next one is Reaper Man, and IMO I don't see another
>> slightly- below-par one until maybe Jingo. And after that maybe
>> Making Money. (And the last few weren't up to Absolutely Superb but
>> they still beat the pants off most other fantasy being published.)
>
> I think I will try Guards! Guards! first. Is it advisable to read them in
> publication order?

Mmmmm... somewhat. Except for a couple near the beginning, they're in pretty
strict chronological order, though Small Gods is several hundred years before
any of the rest, and the Maurice/Tiffany Aching ones aren't as closely bound.
Things happen, have consequences, and get referred to or built on later; in
particular, Vimes' rank increases and his story proceeds (along with the
guards') as you go.

But you can read along any one 'thread' without much intruding from the others,
and Guards! Guards! is where the City Watch thread starts (and continues in Men
at Arms, Feet of Clay, Jingo, The Fifth Elephant, The Truth, Night Watch,
Thud!, and Snuff, with The Last Hero, Monstrous Regiment, and Raising Steam
being semi-crossovers).

(The other main threads are the Witches, the Wizards/Rincewind, Death, Tiffany
Aching, and an odd collection of books where archetypal things happen in/to
Ankh-Morpork and its citizens, usually with Gaspode the talking dog involved.)

[David DeLaney]

On 2015-03-18, Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> or the mountain lair of the dragonriders - stood on their head.

i see wut u did thar

[pete...@gmail.com]

On Monday, March 16, 2015 at 4:37:11 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> I have yet to read a single book of Sir Terry Pratchett's. What book would you recommend the most? My favorite genres are Space
> Opera, Urban Fantasy, Apocalyptic, and Dystopian. I am not a big fan of pure fantasy, especially of unicorns existing peacefully in

> beautiful meadows, farting to beat the band. Except _Ariel_.

>
> One of my friends recommended "The Long Earth" series to me:
> http://www.amazon.com/The-Long-Earth-Terry-Pratchett/dp/0062068687/
>

> Thanks,
> Lynn

The whole series of linked arcs is laid out at:

http://www.lspace.org/books/reading-order-guides/the-discworld-reading-order-guide-20.jpg

That site is *the* *place* for all things Pratchett.

pt

[Titus G]

You must be a real fan if you wrote that of the top of your head. I have
started The Colour of Magic which is OK so far and fairly short so even if
it is mediocre I will read Guards! Guards! next.

[Titus G]

pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> The whole series of linked arcs is laid out at:

> http://www.lspace.org/books/reading-order-guides/the-discworld-reading-order-guide-20.jpg

> That site is *the* *place* for all things Pratchett.

Brilliant, thank you.

[Taki Kogoma]

On 2015-03-19, David DeLaney <davidd...@earthlink.net>
allegedly proclaimed to rec.arts.sf.written:

> But you can read along any one 'thread' without much intruding from the
> others, and Guards! Guards! is where the City Watch thread starts (and
> continues in Men at Arms, Feet of Clay, Jingo, The Fifth Elephant, The Truth,
> Night Watch, Thud!, and Snuff, with The Last Hero, Monstrous Regiment, and
> Raising Steam being semi-crossovers).

_Night Watch_ is rather more dependant that most, as it builds on
_Thief of Time_, which is part of the "Death" sub-series (with
considerable crossover from _Small Gods_.)

--
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk (Known to some as Taki Kogoma) quirk @ swcp.com
Just an article detector on the Information Supercollider.

[David DeLaney]

On 2015-03-19, Titus G <tit...@jobbleuniversity.com> wrote:
> You must be a real fan if you wrote that of the top of your head.

Well, er, yes.

> I have
> started The Colour of Magic which is OK so far and fairly short so even if
> it is mediocre I will read Guards! Guards! next.

Note: TCoM is really only half a book, and ends on a (fairly literal)
cliffhanger. The Light Fantastic finishes things up, if you want to check
back after G!G!.

[Shawn Wilson]

On Thursday, March 19, 2015 at 7:20:05 AM UTC-7, Taki Kogoma wrote:


> _Night Watch_ is rather more dependant that most, as it builds on
> _Thief of Time_, which is part of the "Death" sub-series (with
> considerable crossover from _Small Gods_.)

Well, yes, Night Watch is dependent, but dear lord, not on Thief of Time. Sure, *technically* they are dependent on the same events. But you don't need to know the why of the details of the magical accident that sends Vimes back in time.

[Robert Bannister]

On 19/03/2015 1:16 pm, Titus G wrote:

> You must be a real fan if you wrote that of the top of your head. I have
> started The Colour of Magic which is OK so far and fairly short so even if
> it is mediocre I will read Guards! Guards! next.

It was Colour of Magic that got me hooked on Pratchett. It had me
genuinely laughing out loud - something few books do. Of course, that
was the first time I read it and at a particular time in my life. Most
readers seem to think those first few Discworld books were rather
inferior to what came after, but Colour of Magic still retains a soft
spot in my memory and I was sad when Rincewind left the scene.
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia

[Titus G]

David DeLaney wrote:
> On 2015-03-19, Titus G <tit...@jobbleuniversity.com> wrote:
>> You must be a real fan if you wrote that of the top of your head.

> Well, er, yes.

>> I have
>> started The Colour of Magic which is OK so far and fairly short so
>> even if it is mediocre I will read Guards! Guards! next.

> Note: TCoM is really only half a book, and ends on a (fairly literal)
> cliffhanger. The Light Fantastic finishes things up, if you want to
> check back after G!G!.

For much of the book Wizard Rincewind was hanging by his fingertips. I will
return but after something completely different, a mystery perhaps or
science fiction. Thank you for your guidance.

[Titus G]

There were many times when I had to grin but it was often silly..... and
although in my second childhood it was not as funny as Mort and nowhere near
as good as Good Omens.

[William December Starr]

In article <13598e26-69d0-4f19...@googlegroups.com>,
Moriarty <blu...@ivillage.com> said:

> Other books with definite themes that may, or may not, appeal:
>
> The Last Continent - Australia
> Small Gods - Organised religion
> Interesting Times - China
> Maskerade - Opera
> Carpe Jugulum - Vampires
> Lords and Ladies - Shakespeare (especially A Midsummer Night's Dream)

You mean he didn't get Shakespeare out of his system with _Wyrd Sisters_?
Crap.

-- wds

[Stephen Allcroft]

The thing that struck me most with Lords and Ladies was how _traditional_ it was about elves, a good antidote to Tolkien's angelic makeover of the genus.

Neil Gaiman has also produced his own riff on A Midsummer Night's Dream in the Sandman series of Graphic novels. By comparison Lords and Ladies is much less of a direct improvisation on Wm Shagsper's play and more an exercising of the tropes within the format of a Witches story.

Also and note that Maskerade although set in the big city has a large Witch content. (note also that it is all forms of music theatre and Gaston Leroux's most famous novella in its firing line; e.g. the stage doorman is called miserable Les, at the time Les Miserables in its RSC production was at the height of its popularity.)

[Shawn Wilson]

On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 1:02:09 AM UTC-7, William December Starr wrote:


> > Lords and Ladies - Shakespeare (especially A Midsummer Night's Dream)
>
> You mean he didn't get Shakespeare out of his system with _Wyrd Sisters_?
> Crap.

Oh, don't say that. Lords and Ladies is terrific. Possibly the best witches novel.

[Robert Carnegie]

On Thursday, 26 March 2015 08:02:09 UTC, William December Starr wrote:

"This boy's a Fool."

I don't remember _Lords and Ladies_ as especially
Shakespearey - well, there are the rude mechanicals.
And fairies.

But - hang on. Are you saying that you don't like
Shakespeare? Now /that's/ being choosy.

[William December Starr]

In article <d52fe1d9-1410-484e...@googlegroups.com>,

Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> said:

> But - hang on. Are you saying that you don't like
> Shakespeare? Now /that's/ being choosy.

I literally can't *understand* Shakespeare without running
practically every damn line through a translate-to-humanspeak device.
And after I do that, I still don't get what the big deal about his
plays is supposed to be, other than in the context of the history of
storytelling.

-- wds

[William December Starr]

In article <NPmdnSdlZLqc1pXI...@earthlink.com>,

David DeLaney <davidd...@earthlink.net> said:

> Recommend you -start- with? Either Small Gods (which is a fairly
> standalone Discworld, once he was up to speed), one of Wyrd
> Sisters / Guards! Guards! / Reaper Man / Sourcery if you want to
> start at or near the beginning of one of the threads of the books,

I think you need _Mort_ before _Reaper Man_.

-- wds

[William December Starr]

In article <a6adnZP7UNAf3ZfI...@earthlink.com>,

David DeLaney <davidd...@earthlink.net> said:

> Mmmmm... somewhat. Except for a couple near the beginning, they're
> in pretty strict chronological order, though Small Gods is several
> hundred years before any of the rest,

Huh, I missed that entirely. I thought it was contemporary, with
the epilogue taking place in the future.

-- wds

[Shawn Wilson]

On Friday, March 27, 2015 at 5:27:21 PM UTC-7, William December Starr wrote:


> > Mmmmm... somewhat. Except for a couple near the beginning, they're
> > in pretty strict chronological order, though Small Gods is several
> > hundred years before any of the rest,
>
> Huh, I missed that entirely. I thought it was contemporary, with
> the epilogue taking place in the future.

Uh, nope. There are 'reformed' Omnians in the modern Watch. The epilog may be 'contemporary', but the rest is past history.

[Robert Carnegie]

I don't swear to this, but I think that Omnian
missionaries of the nicer sort first appeared after
_Small Gods_ was published - or at least came into
focus then.

Constructing a Discworld chronology is almost /forbidden/,
but I'd accept Brutha's final scene as being in "the future"
relative to most other Discworld books. It makes a point
about the characters involved that /needs/ to be a long,
long time after Bruths's adventures.

I seem to recall, too, that _Monstrous Regiment_
contains a reference to reformed Omnianism as a
relatively recent development - at least implied so.

[Robert Carnegie]

Well... _Mort_ inherits Ysabell from _The Light Fantastic_
(more or less), and then you may as well read _The Colour
of Magic_ and carry on from there. (Having said that,
I decided to arrange my Discworld collection alphabetically,
which isn't my recommended reading order but is a good way
to find any one title.)

Unless I got confused, one French reader who recently
visited group alt.fan.pratchett in emotional distress
was hooked by _Reaper Man_ as her first Discworld book.
Maybe she assumed it was just an English tradition that
Death lives in a cottage amongst symbolic wheat fields
with one of the greatest wizards ever as his housekeeper
(I don't remember if or when that particular wizardhood
comes into it). So, it can work as a first encounter
with Terry Pratchett's humour.

[David DeLaney]

On 2015-03-31, Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, 28 March 2015 17:31:40 UTC, Shawn Wilson wrote:
>> On Friday, March 27, 2015 at 5:27:21 PM UTC-7, William December Starr wrote:
>> > > Mmmmm... somewhat. Except for a couple near the beginning, they're
>> > > in pretty strict chronological order, though Small Gods is several
>> > > hundred years before any of the rest,
>> >
>> > Huh, I missed that entirely. I thought it was contemporary, with
>> > the epilogue taking place in the future.
>>
>> Uh, nope. There are 'reformed' Omnians in the modern Watch.
>> The epilog may be 'contemporary', but the rest is past history.
>
> I don't swear to this, but I think that Omnian
> missionaries of the nicer sort first appeared after
> _Small Gods_ was published - or at least came into focus then.
>
> Constructing a Discworld chronology is almost /forbidden/,

not least because Time itself broke at one point (we have never actually had
a story set _there_, but it does get referred to in various places and is a
quite definite plot point in a few) and had to be reassembled. (How? By who?
Read the books...)

> but I'd accept Brutha's final scene as being in "the future"
> relative to most other Discworld books. It makes a point
> about the characters involved that /needs/ to be a long,
> long time after Bruths's adventures.
>
> I seem to recall, too, that _Monstrous Regiment_
> contains a reference to reformed Omnianism as a
> relatively recent development - at least implied so.

Having just reread Small Gods over the last couple days, about the only thing
in _it_ that actually dates it - because the Wizards don't appear, nor do the
Witches or Susan sto Helit, and Ankh-Morpork is never actually gotten to
despite the frenetic urging and desire of one character - is the appearance
of {SQUEAKDACTED} alongside Death at one point when a ship is going down.

That by itself might be taken as proof that this has to happen after Reaper
Man ... but I'm not about to tell EITHER of them they can't go wherever and
whenever they're needed. Are you?

[Gary McGath]

There are references to the Church of Om in other novels which place the
events of _Small Gods_ in a historical context.



--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com
Tomorrow's Songs Today: The History of Filk http://www.mcgath.com/tst

[Moriarty]

On Wednesday, April 1, 2015 at 11:35:25 AM UTC+11, Gary McGath wrote:
> On 3/27/15 8:27 PM, William December Starr wrote:
> > In article <a6adnZP7UNAf3ZfI...@earthlink.com>,
> > David DeLaney <davidd...@earthlink.net> said:
> >
> >> Mmmmm... somewhat. Except for a couple near the beginning, they're
> >> in pretty strict chronological order, though Small Gods is several
> >> hundred years before any of the rest,
> >
> > Huh, I missed that entirely. I thought it was contemporary, with
> > the epilogue taking place in the future.
>
> There are references to the Church of Om in other novels which place the
> events of _Small Gods_ in a historical context.

Most notably (I think) in _Carpe Jugulum_ and The Quite Reverend Mightily-Praiseworthy-Are-Ye-Who-Exalteth-Om Oats.

(I had to look it up).

-Moriarty

[Robert Carnegie]

Well, that's six busy years later (1998), Round-world time.

Mind you, in _Eric_ (1990) (as quoted at "L-Space"):

"The gods of the Disc have never bothered much about judging
the souls of the dead, and so people only go to hell if that's
where they believe, in their deepest heart, that they deserve
to go. Which they won't do if they don't know about it. This
explains why it is so important to shoot missionaries on sight."

[William December Starr]

In article <466142c6-15a9-4466...@googlegroups.com>,
Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> said:

> William December Starr wrote:
>> David DeLaney <davidd...@earthlink.net> said:
>>
>>> Recommend you -start- with? Either Small Gods (which is a fairly
>>> standalone Discworld, once he was up to speed), one of Wyrd
>>> Sisters / Guards! Guards! / Reaper Man / Sourcery if you want to
>>> start at or near the beginning of one of the threads of the books,
>>
>> I think you need _Mort_ before _Reaper Man_.
>
> Well... _Mort_ inherits Ysabell from _The Light Fantastic_
> (more or less),

Much more less than more, I think: my opinion is that the versions
of Death and especially Ysabell encountered in _The Light Fantastic_
simply can't be reconciled with the characters we see in _Mort_.
It's like trying to make sense of the smiling Spock in the first
Star Trek pilot -- you just gotta let it go.

(And that's even ignoring the camera-demon's painted image of what
that whole area and its characters *really* looked like... at least
in the books I've read I think Pratchett dropped that idea entirely
in favor of an "if you can see it at all then what you see is what
you get" version of Death and his abode.)

-- wds

[Robert Carnegie]

Well, Death maybe redecorated...

In one of the books - I forget which - Death's home
is represented as a large space, which he - and we -
choose to perceive as a quaint, gently menacing
farm cottage. Out of the corner of your eye, there's
a lot of emptiness.

Also, the photograph IIRC isn't just Death's home,
but the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypses, and,
perhaps, some kind of Hieronymous Bosch entourage.

And Death is trying to discourage casual visitors...

[mimus]

On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 15:37:07 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:

> I have yet to read a single book of Sir Terry Pratchett's. What book
> would you recommend the most? My favorite genres are Space Opera, Urban
> Fantasy, Apocalyptic, and Dystopian. I am not a big fan of pure
> fantasy, especially of unicorns existing peacefully in beautiful
> meadows, farting to beat the band. Except _Ariel_.
>
> One of my friends recommended "The Long Earth" series to me:
> http://www.amazon.com/The-Long-Earth-Terry-Pratchett/dp/0062068687/
>
> Thanks,
> Lynn

The Diskworld series really takes off-- Pterry finds his multileveled and
multithreaded footing-- with _ Wyrd Sisters _, IMO.

But I'd read the series in order of publication.

My own favorite is _ Thief of Time _, a fine fine metaphysical adventure.

--

"The math is easy," said Chaos.

< _ Thief of Time _