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What Are the Great SF Novels of the 1990s?

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Andrew Wheeler

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Jun 6, 2006, 7:36:47 PM6/6/06
to
Here I am again, for the fifth (and probably last) annual go-round.

Our previous installments, as seen in Google Groups:
1950s: http://tinyurl.com/jkmej
1960s: http://tinyurl.com/j9obv
1970s: http://tinyurl.com/gdux3
1980s: http://tinyurl.com/ha2t4

For those who came in late, I'm an Senior Editor at the Science Fiction
Book Club, and we've been doing a multi-year series of some great books
of SF/Fantasy. We started in 2003 (our 50th Anniversary year) with 8
books from the '50s, and have continued, eight books for each decade, in
the years since then. 2007 will be the year for the '90s.

I'll be reading for this series (or just looking over books I read not
all that long ago, this time) over the summer, so now is when I'm
gathering suggestions.

As usual, I'm hoping this will spark some general discussion (as well as
giving me some datapoints), so I don't want to constrain things too
much, but here are some of the considerations I'll have to take into
account with the final list:

I only have eight books to cover the whole decade.

I want to choose books that club members are at least somewhat likely
to buy.

Books already in the club in another edition (or, probably, books that
were in print in the last year or two) won't end up on my final list.

All eight will be single books (novels, collections or anthologies) --
the SFBC does a lot of omnibuses, but not in this series.

I'm trying not to repeat authors if at all possible, to give a fuller
picture of the field.

I'm not *specifically* choosing books to exemplify movements and trends
in the field, but it would be great if it works out that way -- but,
conversely, I won't be doing more than a book or two in any given area.

I have no objection to using something that's part of a series, but a
book needs to make sense on its own outside the context of the series.

I'm generally looking for books published between 1990 and 1999, but
I've bent that rule several times in the past, so books from 1989, 2000
or thereabouts aren't necessarily disqualified (but they should have a
really good reason to be on the list).

The earlier books in the series are:

Year One (2003): The 1950s
1 The Door Into Summer, Robert A. Heinlein
2 The Space Merchants, Frederik Pohl & C.M. Kornbluth
3 The City and the Stars, Arthur C. Clarke
4 Three Hearts and Three Lions, Poul Anderson
5 City, Clifford D. Simak
6 Under Pressure, Frank Herbert
7 The End of Eternity, Isaac Asimov
8 The Stars My Destination, Alfred Bester

Year Two (2004): The 1960s
9 To Your Scattered Bodies Go, Philip José Farmer
10 Norstrilia, Cordwainer Smith
11 The Man in the High Castle, Philip K. Dick
12 The Dream Master, Roger Zelazny
13 Stand on Zanzibar, John Brunner
14 A Canticle for Leibowitz, Walter M. Miller, Jr.
15 The Left Hand of Darkness, Ursula K. LeGuin
16 Rite of Passage, Alexei Panshin

Year Three (2005): The 1970s
17 Rendezvous with Rama, Arthur C. Clarke
18 Gloriana, Michael Moorcock
19 The Forever War, Joe Haldeman
20 Her Smoke Rose Up Forever, James Tiptree, Jr.
21 Wild Seed, Octavia E. Butler
22 The Snow Queen, Joan D. Vinge
23 The Mote in God’s Eye, Larry Niven & Jerry Pournelle
24 Deathbird Stories. Harlan Ellison

Year Four (2006): The 1980s
25 Ender's Game, Orson Scott Card
26 The Anubis Gates, Tim Powers
27 Blood Music, Greg Bear
28 Mythago Wood, Robert Holdstock
29 Courtship Rite, Donald Kingsbury
30 Good Omens, Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett
31 Schismatrix Plus, Bruce Sterling
32 Startide Rising, David Brin


So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?

--
Andrew Wheeler: Professional Editor, Amateur Wise-Acre
--
If you enjoyed this post, try my blog at
http://antickmusings.blogspot.com
If you hated this post, you probably have bad taste anyway.

GSV Three Minds in a Can

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Jun 6, 2006, 8:05:59 PM6/6/06
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Bitstring <4486118F...@optonline.com>, from the wonderful person
Andrew Wheeler <acwh...@optonline.com> said
<big snip>

>So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?

OK, I'll play. Sadly I bet most of these are readily available
elsewhere, or else a problem to get rights for (see also any of the
Harry Potter novels!).

Book Title Author Name(s) Copyright date

Raising the Stones Tepper - Sheri Stewart 1990
Barrayar Bujold - Lois McMaster 1991
A Song for Arbonne Kay - Guy Gavriel 1992
A Fire Upon the Deep Vinge - Vernor 1992
Crashlander Niven - Larry 1994
Chaga McDonald - Ian 1995
Excession Banks - Iain M. 1996
Darwinia Wilson - Robert Charles 1998

Alternates ..

The Fall of Hyperion Simmons - Dan 1990
The Reality Dysfunction Hamilton - Peter F. 1996
The Family Tree Tepper - Sheri Stewart 1997
A Civil Campaign Bujold - Lois McMaster 1999
A Deepness in the Sky Vinge - Vernor 1999

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Google may be your friend, but groups.google.com posters definitely aren't.

Anthony Nance

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Jun 6, 2006, 9:10:55 PM6/6/06
to
In article <4486118F...@optonline.com>,

Andrew Wheeler <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:
>Here I am again, for the fifth (and probably last) annual go-round.
>
>Our previous installments, as seen in Google Groups:
>1950s: http://tinyurl.com/jkmej
>1960s: http://tinyurl.com/j9obv
>1970s: http://tinyurl.com/gdux3
>1980s: http://tinyurl.com/ha2t4
>
>For those who came in late, I'm an Senior Editor at the Science Fiction
>Book Club, and we've been doing a multi-year series of some great books
>of SF/Fantasy. We started in 2003 (our 50th Anniversary year) with 8
>books from the '50s, and have continued, eight books for each decade, in
>the years since then. 2007 will be the year for the '90s.
>
>I'll be reading for this series (or just looking over books I read not
>all that long ago, this time) over the summer, so now is when I'm
>gathering suggestions.
>
> <snip good stuff, just for length>

>
> I'm generally looking for books published between 1990 and 1999, but
>I've bent that rule several times in the past, so books from 1989, 2000
>or thereabouts aren't necessarily disqualified (but they should have a
>really good reason to be on the list).
>
> <snip previous decades>

>
>
>So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?


I'm woefully under-read in the 90s, but I will toss out these five:

Use Of Weapons - Banks
Axiomatic - Egan (Only one of the stories was published pre-1990)
A Deepness in the Sky - Vinge
Aristoi - WJWilliams
A Night in the Lonesome October - Zelazny (yeah, you did him already,
and yeah, he's not really a "90s" author; just a favorite of mine)

And I'll note that Bujold's A Curse of Chalion is likely disqualified
(bummer!), since the copyright page says "First Eos special printing:
December 2000" right beneath "First EOS hardcover printing: August 2001".

Tony

Brion K. Lienhart

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Jun 6, 2006, 9:14:53 PM6/6/06
to
Andrew Wheeler wrote:
> Here I am again, for the fifth (and probably last) annual go-round.
>
> Our previous installments, as seen in Google Groups:
> 1950s: http://tinyurl.com/jkmej
> 1960s: http://tinyurl.com/j9obv
> 1970s: http://tinyurl.com/gdux3
> 1980s: http://tinyurl.com/ha2t4

I vote for _A Fire Upon the Deep_ by Vernor Vinge. Also _Harry Potter
and the Philosopher's(Sorceror's) Stone_. Although the second one is
still in print and widely available, it's still an important novel.

pacm...@hotmail.com

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Jun 6, 2006, 9:33:30 PM6/6/06
to
Andrew Wheeler <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:
[snip]

> So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?

> --
> Andrew Wheeler: Professional Editor, Amateur Wise-Acre
> --
> If you enjoyed this post, try my blog at
> http://antickmusings.blogspot.com
> If you hated this post, you probably have bad taste anyway.

I also vote for Vinge's _A Fire Upon the Deep_. (Not just because it's
one of my all-time favorite SF novels, but I would *really* like a
hardback copy of it.) :-)

--
Paul Carter

SFBC member since about 1970

art...@yahoo.com

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Jun 6, 2006, 9:40:27 PM6/6/06
to

Andrew Wheeler wrote:
>
> So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?

Last Call Tim Powers
The Diamond Age and Cryptonomicon* Neal Stephenson
I think this was 99, but maybe it was 2000?
China Mountain Zhang Maureen McHugh
Passion Play Sean Stewart

David T. Bilek

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Jun 6, 2006, 9:41:21 PM6/6/06
to
na...@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) wrote:
>In article <4486118F...@optonline.com>,
>Andrew Wheeler <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:

...

>>
>>So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?
>
>
>I'm woefully under-read in the 90s, but I will toss out these five:
>
>Use Of Weapons - Banks
>Axiomatic - Egan (Only one of the stories was published pre-1990)
>A Deepness in the Sky - Vinge
>Aristoi - WJWilliams

I just wanted to commend you on your exceptional taste and
discernment, sir.

>A Night in the Lonesome October - Zelazny (yeah, you did him already,
> and yeah, he's not really a "90s" author; just a favorite of mine)

Hm, well, I suppose I can overlook this slip.

-David


Konrad Gaertner

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Jun 6, 2006, 9:48:37 PM6/6/06
to
Andrew Wheeler wrote:
>
> I'm generally looking for books published between 1990 and 1999, but
> I've bent that rule several times in the past, so books from 1989, 2000
> or thereabouts aren't necessarily disqualified (but they should have a
> really good reason to be on the list).

This should be a good decade for fantasy. Checking my booklog, I see
that in the last year I've read at least one book from each year of
this decade.

Gaiman and Pratchett, _Good Omens_ (1990)
Robert Jordan, _The Eye of the World_ (1990) (I still like it)
Tanya Huff, _Blood Price_ (1991)
Rosemary Edghill, _Speak Daggers to Her_ (1994)
Rosemary Edghill, _Sword of Maiden's Tears_ (1994)
Robin Hobb, _Assassin's Apprentice_ (1995)
Garth Nix, _Sabriel_ (1995)
George RR Martin, _A Game of Thrones_ (1996)
Kage Baker, _In the Garden of Iden_ (1997)
Diane Duane, _The Book of Night with Moon_ (1997)
Martha Wells, _Death of the Necromancer_ (1998) (now out of print)
F. Paul Wilson, _Legacies_ (1998)
Steven Erikson, _Gardens of the Moon_ (1999)
Kristine Smith, _Code of Conduct_ (1999)

--
Konrad Gaertner - - - - - - - - - - - - - - email: gae...@aol.com
http://kgbooklog.livejournal.com/
"I don't mind hidden depths but I insist that there be a surface."
-- James Nicoll

David T. Bilek

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Jun 6, 2006, 10:09:34 PM6/6/06
to
On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 19:36:47 -0400, Andrew Wheeler
<acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:

>Here I am again, for the fifth (and probably last) annual go-round.

Won't you need to do this again in 7-8 years for the 00's?

>
>Our previous installments, as seen in Google Groups:
>1950s: http://tinyurl.com/jkmej
>1960s: http://tinyurl.com/j9obv
>1970s: http://tinyurl.com/gdux3
>1980s: http://tinyurl.com/ha2t4
>

...

>
>So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?
>

_Use of Weapons_ - Banks, 1990. Stunning and brilliant. Banks' best
work and a precursor of the current belle epoch of British science
fiction.

_A Fire Upon the Deep_ - Vinge, 1992. Do I really need to comment?
Just say yes.

_Metropolitan_/_City On Fire_ - Williams (Walter Jon) 1994ish. Great,
great books, and he needs the help to get the third one published.
Maybe an omnibus? Pretty please? Come on, cut a brother a break?

_Axiomatic_ - Egan, 1995. The best single-author collection in recent
memory. If you include any short fiction, it should be the Egan.

_A Game of Thrones_ - Martin, 1996. If you include any fantasy, this
should be it.

_The Fortunate Fall_ - Carter, 1996. Wonderful book and the only
novel by the author. I wonder why she stopped writing? (Yeah, yeah,
I said 'she'. Deal with it, people!)

_Mirror Dance_ or _A Civil Campaign_ - Bujold, 1994 and 1999
respectively. Either would be a great choice. Bujold has won the
most Best Novel Hugo Awards since Heinlein, I don't see how it would
be possible to make your list without including at least one of her
books.

_Snow Crash_ or _Cryptonomicon_ - Stephenson, 1992 and 1999
respectively. I prefer the latter, but the former is important for a
lot of reasons.


This is a strong list. Very marketable(I think). Even stuff like the
Williams that didn't get a break when it was first published. What's
not to like? Pleeeease, pleeeease choose my list!

Alternates

_Perdido Street Station_ - Mieville, 2000. Yeah, it's 2000. That's
why it is alternate.

_Revelation Space_ - Reynolds, 2000. Yeah, 2000 again. Alternate.
Perfect example of the New Space Opera, though.

_Holy Fire_ - Sterling, mumbleyear. You already did _Schismatrix_ for
the 80's, though, so he gets put down here in the alternates.

Something by John Barnes. _Orbital Resonance_ or _A Million Open
Doors_, perhaps. Maybe instead of Carter. More saleable?

Something by MacLeod. _The Cassini Division_ or _The Sky Road_,
maybe? Also more saleable?

******

Is it just me or was there a lot of damn fine science fiction at the
turn of the millenium? 1999-2001 was very strong.

-David

David T. Bilek

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Jun 6, 2006, 10:10:35 PM6/6/06
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On 6 Jun 2006 18:40:27 -0700, "art...@yahoo.com" <art...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Andrew Wheeler wrote:
>>
>> So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?
>
>Last Call Tim Powers

This was the 90's?! Oh man, it was! I need to fix my list!

-David

David T. Bilek

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Jun 6, 2006, 10:11:05 PM6/6/06
to
On Wed, 07 Jun 2006 01:48:37 GMT, Konrad Gaertner
<kgae...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Andrew Wheeler wrote:
>>
>> I'm generally looking for books published between 1990 and 1999, but
>> I've bent that rule several times in the past, so books from 1989, 2000
>> or thereabouts aren't necessarily disqualified (but they should have a
>> really good reason to be on the list).
>
>This should be a good decade for fantasy. Checking my booklog, I see
>that in the last year I've read at least one book from each year of
>this decade.
>
>Gaiman and Pratchett, _Good Omens_ (1990)
>Robert Jordan, _The Eye of the World_ (1990) (I still like it)
>Tanya Huff, _Blood Price_ (1991)
>Rosemary Edghill, _Speak Daggers to Her_ (1994)
>Rosemary Edghill, _Sword of Maiden's Tears_ (1994)
>Robin Hobb, _Assassin's Apprentice_ (1995)
>Garth Nix, _Sabriel_ (1995)
>George RR Martin, _A Game of Thrones_ (1996)
>Kage Baker, _In the Garden of Iden_ (1997)
>Diane Duane, _The Book of Night with Moon_ (1997)
>Martha Wells, _Death of the Necromancer_ (1998) (now out of print)
>F. Paul Wilson, _Legacies_ (1998)
>Steven Erikson, _Gardens of the Moon_ (1999)
>Kristine Smith, _Code of Conduct_ (1999)

That's... a lot of fantasy, Konrad.

-David

David T. Bilek

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Jun 6, 2006, 10:11:55 PM6/6/06
to
On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 19:09:34 -0700, David T. Bilek
<dtb...@comcast.net> wrote:

>Alternates
>
>_Perdido Street Station_ - Mieville, 2000. Yeah, it's 2000. That's
>why it is alternate.
>
>_Revelation Space_ - Reynolds, 2000. Yeah, 2000 again. Alternate.
>Perfect example of the New Space Opera, though.
>
>_Holy Fire_ - Sterling, mumbleyear. You already did _Schismatrix_ for
>the 80's, though, so he gets put down here in the alternates.
>
>Something by John Barnes. _Orbital Resonance_ or _A Million Open
>Doors_, perhaps. Maybe instead of Carter. More saleable?
>
>Something by MacLeod. _The Cassini Division_ or _The Sky Road_,
>maybe? Also more saleable?

It has come to my attention that _Last Call_ by Tim Powers is a 90s
book. Consider it at the very top of the alternate list.

-David

Mike Schilling

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Jun 6, 2006, 10:12:48 PM6/6/06
to
Mirror Dance, Bujold
Aristoi, WJW
The Phoenix Guard, Brust
A Game of Thrones, Martin

And then comes a great silence.

Aaron Bergman

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Jun 6, 2006, 10:13:22 PM6/6/06
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The Iron Dragon's Daughter, Michael Swanwick
The Sorceress and the Cygnet, Patricia McKillip
The Lions of al-Rassan (narrowly over Tigana), GG Kay
A Deepness in the Sky (narrowly over AFutD), Vernor Vinge
Use of Weapons, Iain Banks
Permutation City, Greg Egan
Aristoi, Walter Jon Williams
Snow Crash, Neal Stephenson

If you allow first in series, I'd think about including one of these:

Hyperion, Dan Simmons
The Golden Compass (The Northern Lights), Philip Pullman
A Game of Thrones, George RR Martin
Sabriel, Garth Nix
The Sparrow, Mary Doria Russel

The last two stand alone fairly well, though.

I also really, really want to include City on Fire by WJW, but it's the
second book in an incomplete series.

Aaron

shenyang

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Jun 6, 2006, 10:56:36 PM6/6/06
to
>China Mountain Zhang Maureen McHugh
I am Chinese.I have never heard of it .
Can anyone tell me about it?

Steve Harclerode

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Jun 6, 2006, 11:14:55 PM6/6/06
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I enjoyed this very much, but that's almost all that I can remember about
it. So here's a link to a brief review that sounded right:

http://www.strangewords.com/archive/china.html

Zai jian,
Steve

"shenyang" <shenyan...@sina.com> wrote in message
news:f8ce4fb648e88541...@localhost.talkaboutsciencefiction.com...

shenyang

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Jun 6, 2006, 11:25:37 PM6/6/06
to
Thanks for the link .
I am in China ,I can't log it on .
I am so sorry.......

Nancy Lebovitz

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Jun 6, 2006, 11:35:36 PM6/6/06
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In article <f8ce4fb648e88541...@localhost.talkaboutsciencefiction.com>,

It's a naturalistic story (in other words, fairly ordinary life rather than
tremendous heroism or disasters) set in a future where China is the
dominant power. I liked it fairly well--I don't know how much detail you
want before you start reading.
--
Nancy Lebovitz http://www.nancybuttons.com
http://livejournal.com/users/nancylebov

My two favorite colors are "Oooooh" and "SHINY!".

David Tate

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Jun 7, 2006, 12:49:49 AM6/7/06
to
Andrew Wheeler wrote:
> Here I am again, for the fifth (and probably last) annual go-round.
>
> I'm generally looking for books published between 1990 and 1999, but
> I've bent that rule several times in the past, so books from 1989, 2000
> or thereabouts aren't necessarily disqualified (but they should have a
> really good reason to be on the list).

> So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?

Novels:
Vernor Vinge, A FIRE UPON THE DEEP
Walter Jon Williams, METROPOLITAN
Neal Stephenson, SNOW CRASH
Tim Powers, LAST CALL
Steven Brust, THE PHOENIX GUARDS
Roger Zelazny, A NIGHT IN THE LONESOME OCTOBER
Mary Doria Russell, THE SPARROW
Connie Willis, DOOMSDAY BOOK

Collections:
Greg Egan, AXIOMATIC
David Brin, OTHERNESS

The one I feel most strongly about is the Egan, which has a
straight-faced claim to be the best SF original single-author
collection of all time. After that, well, they're all wonderful.

David Tate

Gene Ward Smith

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Jun 7, 2006, 12:56:50 AM6/7/06
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David T. Bilek wrote:

> This is a strong list.

Compared to previous decades? I don't think so. The 90s was not a good
decade for sf.

Mike Schilling

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Jun 7, 2006, 1:04:14 AM6/7/06
to

"David Tate" <dt...@ida.org> wrote in message
news:1149655789.8...@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Novels:
> [...]
> Connie Willis, DOOMSDAY BOOK

I forgot about Willis. Add _To Say Nothing of the Dog_ to my list. And I'm
vacillating about _Steel Beach_.


Brion K. Lienhart

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Jun 7, 2006, 1:07:21 AM6/7/06
to
art...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Andrew Wheeler wrote:
>
>>So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?
>
>
> Last Call Tim Powers
> The Diamond Age and Cryptonomicon* Neal Stephenson

Actually, I think _Snow Crash_ would be better for Stephenson.

David T. Bilek

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Jun 7, 2006, 5:04:05 AM6/7/06
to

Yet another man of refined taste and clear intellectual achievement.
Cheers! Well, except for the Willis. I suppose we must overlook the
little foibles.

-David

David T. Bilek

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Jun 7, 2006, 5:06:20 AM6/7/06
to
On 6 Jun 2006 21:56:50 -0700, "Gene Ward Smith"
<genewa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Compared to what, the 80's? The list I posted is far, far stronger
than the 80's "best-of" novels that Andrew published. I will admit
that a lot of the best 80's novels didn't actually make it onto the
80's list, but the 90's was clearly superior to the previous decade.

-David

Elf M. Sternberg

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Jun 7, 2006, 7:48:06 AM6/7/06
to

But _The Diamond Age_ was much more SFnal, and did a better job of
carrying on the traditional role of SF-- to be commentary on the
present-- than Snow Crash. SC, if anything, was strong commentary on
the sorry state of SFnal publishing; the Diamond Age was commentary on
the sorry state of SF in general.

I also think that _Diaspora_ would be a better novel choice than the
short story collection _Axiomatic_, for Greg Egan. While it lacks some
of the near-mysticism of Axiomatic, Diaspora qualifies as a novel and
embodies much of Egan's main line of argument regarding the future of
humanity.

Elf

Ken from Chicago

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Jun 7, 2006, 7:56:26 AM6/7/06
to

"Andrew Wheeler" <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote in message
news:4486118F...@optonline.com...

> Here I am again, for the fifth (and probably last) annual go-round.
>
> Our previous installments, as seen in Google Groups:
> 1950s: http://tinyurl.com/jkmej
> 1960s: http://tinyurl.com/j9obv
> 1970s: http://tinyurl.com/gdux3
> 1980s: http://tinyurl.com/ha2t4
>
> For those who came in late, I'm an Senior Editor at the Science Fiction
> Book Club, and we've been doing a multi-year series of some great books
> of SF/Fantasy. We started in 2003 (our 50th Anniversary year) with 8
> books from the '50s, and have continued, eight books for each decade, in
> the years since then. 2007 will be the year for the '90s.
>
> I'll be reading for this series (or just looking over books I read not
> all that long ago, this time) over the summer, so now is when I'm
> gathering suggestions.
>
> As usual, I'm hoping this will spark some general discussion (as well as
> giving me some datapoints), so I don't want to constrain things too
> much, but here are some of the considerations I'll have to take into
> account with the final list:
>
> I only have eight books to cover the whole decade.

Why eight? Wouldn't it be logical and easier to go for 10 books, one for
each year?

> I want to choose books that club members are at least somewhat likely
> to buy.
>
> Books already in the club in another edition (or, probably, books that
> were in print in the last year or two) won't end up on my final list.
>
> All eight will be single books (novels, collections or anthologies) --
> the SFBC does a lot of omnibuses, but not in this series.
>
> I'm trying not to repeat authors if at all possible, to give a fuller
> picture of the field.
>
> I'm not *specifically* choosing books to exemplify movements and trends
> in the field, but it would be great if it works out that way -- but,
> conversely, I won't be doing more than a book or two in any given area.
>
> I have no objection to using something that's part of a series, but a
> book needs to make sense on its own outside the context of the series.
>
> I'm generally looking for books published between 1990 and 1999, but
> I've bent that rule several times in the past, so books from 1989, 2000
> or thereabouts aren't necessarily disqualified (but they should have a
> really good reason to be on the list).

<snip>

Thanks. This provides even MORE reason for me NOT to re-REread books as
there's so much great work out there that remains unread--by me, that is.

-- Ken from Chicago


James Nicoll

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Jun 7, 2006, 8:48:06 AM6/7/06
to
In article <0budnWLp87h2IxvZ...@comcast.com>,

Ken from Chicago <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>"Andrew Wheeler" <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote in message
>news:4486118F...@optonline.com...
>> Here I am again, for the fifth (and probably last) annual go-round.
>>
>> Our previous installments, as seen in Google Groups:
>> 1950s: http://tinyurl.com/jkmej
>> 1960s: http://tinyurl.com/j9obv
>> 1970s: http://tinyurl.com/gdux3
>> 1980s: http://tinyurl.com/ha2t4
>>
>> For those who came in late, I'm an Senior Editor at the Science Fiction
>> Book Club, and we've been doing a multi-year series of some great books
>> of SF/Fantasy. We started in 2003 (our 50th Anniversary year) with 8
>> books from the '50s, and have continued, eight books for each decade, in
>> the years since then. 2007 will be the year for the '90s.
>>
>> I'll be reading for this series (or just looking over books I read not
>> all that long ago, this time) over the summer, so now is when I'm
>> gathering suggestions.
>>
>> As usual, I'm hoping this will spark some general discussion (as well as
>> giving me some datapoints), so I don't want to constrain things too
>> much, but here are some of the considerations I'll have to take into
>> account with the final list:
>>
>> I only have eight books to cover the whole decade.
>
>Why eight? Wouldn't it be logical and easier to go for 10 books, one for
>each year?


Octopodia is the key insight.
--
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll

rick++

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 9:12:56 AM6/7/06
to
I'd say Jurassic Park had a large effect on the public and movie
industry.
The combination of dinosaurs, genetics, ecology and nonlinear math
seemed to work.
Crichton pumps them out frequently and repetitiously, but occasionally
gets an interesting one out.

David Tate

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 9:29:51 AM6/7/06
to
Elf M. Sternberg wrote:
>
> I also think that _Diaspora_ would be a better novel choice than the
> short story collection _Axiomatic_, for Greg Egan. While it lacks some
> of the near-mysticism of Axiomatic, Diaspora qualifies as a novel and
> embodies much of Egan's main line of argument regarding the future of
> humanity.

Yes, but even granting that, it's much less *good*. For Andrew's
purposes, I really don't care whether AXIOMATIC is representative Egan,
so much as I care that it's most of the best stuff he ever wrote, and
that stuff is very fine indeed.

FWIW, that's also my argument for OTHERNESS over any of David Brin's
'90s novels. The novels are probably more marketable, but the stories
in OTHERNESS are better SF.

(Now, Andrew will have to weigh the marketing disadvantages of a
superior collection relative to an inferior novel, but that's his
call.)

David Tate

Nancy Lebovitz

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 9:46:10 AM6/7/06
to
In article <87zmgp2...@drizzle.com>,

Elf M. Sternberg <e...@drizzle.com> wrote:
>"Brion K. Lienhart" <bri...@lienhart.name> writes:
>
>> art...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> Andrew Wheeler wrote:
>>>
>>>>So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?
>>> Last Call Tim Powers
>>> The Diamond Age and Cryptonomicon* Neal Stephenson
>>
>> Actually, I think _Snow Crash_ would be better for Stephenson.
>
>But _The Diamond Age_ was much more SFnal, and did a better job of
>carrying on the traditional role of SF-- to be commentary on the
>present-- than Snow Crash. SC, if anything, was strong commentary on
>the sorry state of SFnal publishing; the Diamond Age was commentary on
>the sorry state of SF in general.

I saw SC as a very funny parody of cyberpunk, and TDA as somewhat inferior
sf.

>
>I also think that _Diaspora_ would be a better novel choice than the
>short story collection _Axiomatic_, for Greg Egan. While it lacks some
>of the near-mysticism of Axiomatic, Diaspora qualifies as a novel and
>embodies much of Egan's main line of argument regarding the future of
>humanity.

I agree that _Diaspora_ is spectacular--probably the best sf novel I'd
read in 5 years or so. It isn't easy to supply that big a dose of
sense of wonder these days.

James Nicoll

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 10:03:41 AM6/7/06
to
In article <weF8lwAn...@from.is.invalid>,
GSV Three Minds in a Can <G...@quik.clara.co.uk> wrote:

>Crashlander Niven - Larry 1994

? I thought this was mostly older material, mainly from the 1960s?
And that the new material had serious continuity problems?

Iain King

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 10:04:42 AM6/7/06
to
David T. Bilek wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 19:36:47 -0400, Andrew Wheeler
> <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:
> >So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?
> >
>
> _Use of Weapons_ - Banks, 1990. Stunning and brilliant. Banks' best
> work and a precursor of the current belle epoch of British science
> fiction.

Absolutely. Use of Weapons is incredible.

>
> _A Fire Upon the Deep_ - Vinge, 1992. Do I really need to comment?
> Just say yes.

Keep meaning to read this.

> _Axiomatic_ - Egan, 1995. The best single-author collection in recent
> memory. If you include any short fiction, it should be the Egan.

I found this to be full of interesting ideas, but the stories didn't
seem to go anywhere.

>
> _A Game of Thrones_ - Martin, 1996. If you include any fantasy, this
> should be it.
>

Exactly. Well, apart from:

_The Iron Dragon's Daughter_ by Michael Swanwick, which you could class
as fantasy or scifi, but is stunning either way.
As good as _A Game Of Thrones_ is, it works better accompanied by _A
Clash of Kings_ and _A Storm of Swords_ (which I think is the strongest
of the three), and I don't think putting a trilogy in would be viable
:)

Iain

Michael Grosberg

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Jun 7, 2006, 11:28:11 AM6/7/06
to

Andrew Wheeler wrote:

> So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?

My top three are:
*A Fire Upon the Deep
*Snow Crash
*Hyperion

I'm seperating the top thre from the next five because for me, they
don't even require thinking. The first two are completely unique and
changed the entire field; Hyperion is more of a summary, a culmination
of various trends woven together by a master storyteller.

The next ones are:
* The Iron Dragon's Daughter - Michael Swanwick
*Aristoi / Metropolitan, WJW (I can't pick just one but realistically
I'd have to)
A game of Thrones - George R. R. Martin
Use of Weapons - Iain M. Banks

Two more... I'd have put another Bear but he got his share in the 80's.
For the sake of justice, then, I'd put something by Lois McMaster
Bujold. Barrayar is muy perssoanl favorite.

Ken from Chicago

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 11:37:49 AM6/7/06
to

"James Nicoll" <jdni...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:e66hu6$5bt$1...@reader2.panix.com...

> In article <0budnWLp87h2IxvZ...@comcast.com>,
> Ken from Chicago <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>"Andrew Wheeler" <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote in message
>>news:4486118F...@optonline.com...
>>> Here I am again, for the fifth (and probably last) annual go-round.

<snip>

>>> I only have eight books to cover the whole decade.
>>
>>Why eight? Wouldn't it be logical and easier to go for 10 books, one for
>>each year?
>
>
> Octopodia is the key insight.
> --
> http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll

Chuck Norris totally kicked butt in that!

-- Ken from Chicago


John Pelan

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 12:27:00 PM6/7/06
to
On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 19:36:47 -0400, Andrew Wheeler
<acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:

>Here I am again, for the fifth (and probably last) annual go-round.
>

>Our previous installments, as seen in Google Groups:
>1950s: http://tinyurl.com/jkmej
>1960s: http://tinyurl.com/j9obv
>1970s: http://tinyurl.com/gdux3
>1980s: http://tinyurl.com/ha2t4

Okay, taking your considerations into account:

Use of Weapons - Ian Banks
Darwinia - Robert Charles Wilson (I'm sure there will be a BCE of SPIN
after it wins the Hugo, but that shouldn't disqualify this one).
Last Call -Tim Powers
Axiomatic - Greg Egan (just maybe the best single-author collection
ever assembled)
Hyperion - Dan Simmons
Mojo & the Pickle Jar - Douglas Bell
A Fire Upon the Deep - Vernor Vinge
The Vor Game - Lois McMaster Bujold


(See, I restrained myself and included no horror titles; and with one
exception actually took commercial considerations into account) ;-)

Cheers,


John

www.darksidepress.com

Mike Schilling

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Jun 7, 2006, 12:35:15 PM6/7/06
to

"John Pelan" <jpe...@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:9mud829pk9d7vcpju...@4ax.com...

> The Vor Game - Lois McMaster Bujold

Wow, talk about mileage varying. Given how choppy and coincidence-driven
the plot is, and that it lacks the depth of characterization of her later
books, TVG is my 6th favorite Bujold of the 90s, after Mirror Dance, A Civil
Campaign, Barrayar, Memory, and Komarr.


James Nicoll

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 12:52:57 PM6/7/06
to
Sticking just to new authors [1] from the 1990s and to SF:


ORBITAL RESONANCE (John Barnes)

JUMPER (Stephen Gould)

VAST (Linda Nagata)

SABRIEL (Garth Nix)

THE FORTUNATE FALL (Raphael Carter)

THE STONE CANAL (Ken Macleod)

CHINA MOUNTAIN ZHANG (Maureen McHugh)

VOYAGE (Stephen Baxter)


Yes, that's a Baxter novel up there.


1: Ignoring short stories.

Bill Patterson

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 1:14:30 PM6/7/06
to
Nothing by Gibson on the list. Can't check pub dates, but weren't
there at least three of his major books published in the 1990's?

Bill Patterson

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 1:16:55 PM6/7/06
to
Both Diaspora and Permutation City have dates in the 1990s. [Greg
Egan]. I'd nominate Disapora.

Bill Patterson

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 1:21:26 PM6/7/06
to
Octavia E. Butler's Parable of the Sower and Parable of the Talents
both fit into the time frame. They've both gotten quite a lot of
academic attention.

FED UP

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 2:19:46 PM6/7/06
to
Isn't "CHINA MOUNTAIN ZHANG" part of a three or four book series ?

Think I read one of these books years ago. It wasn't what one would
call "hard sci-fi".

James Nicoll

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 2:33:58 PM6/7/06
to
In article <1149704386.6...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>,

No.

Could you be thinking of CHUNG KUO?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chung_Kuo

Gene Ward Smith

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 2:46:00 PM6/7/06
to

David T. Bilek wrote:
> On 6 Jun 2006 21:56:50 -0700, "Gene Ward Smith"
> <genewa...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >Compared to previous decades? I don't think so. The 90s was not a good
> >decade for sf.
>
> Compared to what, the 80's? The list I posted is far, far stronger
> than the 80's "best-of" novels that Andrew published.

It was MUCH worse. Compared to the 80's, the 90's suck. Compared to the
70's, the 90's suck. Compared to the 60's, the 90's suck. Compared to
the 50's, the 90's suck. Compared to the 40's, the 90's suck. Compared
to this decade, the 90's suck. I spot a trend--it was a dry, rancid
decade for sf.

I will admit
> that a lot of the best 80's novels didn't actually make it onto the
> 80's list, but the 90's was clearly superior to the previous decade.

>From the 80's list we can pick Anubis Gates, from the 70's list The
Mote in God's Eye, from the 60's list A Canticle for Leibowitz, from
the 50's list The Stars My Destination. These are all classic sf and
better than anything anyone has put on any of the 90's lists.

For the 90's we have good stuff from Bujold and Powers, but not on the
level of "classics they'll be reading 50 years from now", which the
books I just listed all are. We have stuff from Vinge which might have
been good if Vinge could write, and stuff which is vaguely amusing
without anything more to be said for it from Stephenson and Wills.
We've got really annoying stuff from Martin which makes me wish the
Wild Cards or the Daleks or someone would show up and kick some ass.

What a pukey decade for sf, when you compare it to what went before.

Ulrich Elsner

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 3:18:07 PM6/7/06
to
David T. Bilek <dtb...@comcast.net> writes:

> On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 19:36:47 -0400, Andrew Wheeler
> <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:
>
>>Here I am again, for the fifth (and probably last) annual go-round.

>>So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?

>> [...]

> _Use of Weapons_ - Banks, 1990. Stunning and brilliant. Banks' best
> work and a precursor of the current belle epoch of British science
> fiction.

Agreed

> _A Fire Upon the Deep_ - Vinge, 1992. Do I really need to comment?
> Just say yes.

Yes, you need to comment :-)
Well, mainly why FutD and not _A Deepness in the Sky_. ADitS would
be (just very slightly) my favorite. But one of those two has to
be on the list.

> [...]


> _A Game of Thrones_ - Martin, 1996. If you include any fantasy, this
> should be it.

Agreed.

> [...]

> _Mirror Dance_ or _A Civil Campaign_ - Bujold, 1994 and 1999
> respectively. Either would be a great choice. Bujold has won the
> most Best Novel Hugo Awards since Heinlein, I don't see how it would
> be possible to make your list without including at least one of her
> books.

My vote would be on Mirror Dance, but I could live with any of
her books. Just as long as one of them makes it.

> _Snow Crash_ or _Cryptonomicon_ - Stephenson, 1992 and 1999
> respectively. I prefer the latter, but the former is important for a
> lot of reasons.

Ditto.

Even though it is from 89, I would add Hyperion (Dan Simmons).
Together with The Fall of Hyperion (90) I would call it
firmly set in the 90s.


OK, that's only 5 books, but then, I am not that well read.


Ulrich

Peter D. Tillman

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 3:45:33 PM6/7/06
to
In article <4486118F...@optonline.com>,
Andrew Wheeler <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:

> So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?

Just eight, eh?

OK, in alphabetical order, and looking for some less-obvious choices:

Eleanor Arnason, A Woman of the Iron People (91). "A+", arguably the
best-ever annthropological-SF novel. My review:
http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/nonfiction/ironpeople.htm

Ian M. Banks, Against a Dark Background (93). "A/A+" -- exemplary tragic
modern space-opera. Who could resist the luscious Zefla Franck? My
review:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=7m4sta%244v3%241%40alexander.INS.CW
RU.Edu>

Greg Egan, DISTRESS (97). His best novel, with astonishing richness and
density of invention. My review:
http://darkplanet.basespace.net/nonfict/gegan.html

Joe Haldeman, The Hemingway Hoax (90). Arguably Haldeman's best yet. The
novella's tighter, but the novel's great, too.

Wil McCarthy, Bloom (98). "A/A+". A thoughtful hard-sf novel of ideas,
arguably McCarthy's best yet. My review:
http://darkplanet.basespace.net/nonfict/bloom.html

L.E. Modesitt, Jr., The Ecolitan Enigma (97). "A/A+": a hard-eyed look
at an ancient human dilemma - how can we deal with political monsters?
My review: http://www.sfsite.com/06b/eco35.htm

Bruce Sterling, Holy Fire (96). "A+", his best yet (and maybe ever):
http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&selm=an_203574236

Michael Swanwick. The Iron Dragon's Daughter (93) is clearly (imo) his
best novel, but isn't quite SF. But, boy, is it good.

Walter Jon Williams, Metropolitan omnibus (95-97). OK, you didn't want
omnibi, and this is borderline-SF again, but this is WJW's best work so
far, and arguably the best (incomplete) novel of the 90's. Both A+,
simply spectacular.

Yeah, I know that's nine....

Happy reading--
Pete Tillman
--
Book Reviews: http://www.sfsite.com/revwho.htm
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/cm/member-reviews/-/A3GHSD9VY8XS4Q/
http://www.infinityplus.co.uk//nonfiction/reviews.htm
Google "Peter D. Tillman" +review for many more!

Konrad Gaertner

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 3:48:17 PM6/7/06
to
Gene Ward Smith wrote:
>
> From the 80's list we can pick Anubis Gates, from the 70's list The
> Mote in God's Eye, from the 60's list A Canticle for Leibowitz, from
> the 50's list The Stars My Destination. These are all classic sf and
> better than anything anyone has put on any of the 90's lists.
>
> For the 90's we have good stuff from Bujold and Powers, but not on the
> level of "classics they'll be reading 50 years from now", which the
> books I just listed all are.

Who we? I haven't read any of the titles on your list.

--
Konrad Gaertner - - - - - - - - - - - - - - email: gae...@aol.com
http://kgbooklog.livejournal.com/
"I don't mind hidden depths but I insist that there be a surface."
-- James Nicoll

Peter D. Tillman

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 3:58:03 PM6/7/06
to
In article <9mud829pk9d7vcpju...@4ax.com>,
John Pelan <jpe...@qwest.net> wrote:

> Axiomatic - Greg Egan (just maybe the best single-author collection
> ever assembled)

Yeah, I'll chime in here too. AXIOMATIC is WONDERFUL! I didn't put it on
my list, considering the subject line, but if you do a collection, it
should be the Egan. This is clearly his best work.

My review:
<http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books.reviews/msg/0fcd46243de083
25>

Happy reading--
Pete Tillman

Randy Money

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 4:25:15 PM6/7/06
to
Konrad Gaertner wrote:
> Gene Ward Smith wrote:
>
>>From the 80's list we can pick Anubis Gates, from the 70's list The
>>Mote in God's Eye, from the 60's list A Canticle for Leibowitz, from
>>the 50's list The Stars My Destination. These are all classic sf and
>>better than anything anyone has put on any of the 90's lists.
>>
>>For the 90's we have good stuff from Bujold and Powers, but not on the
>>level of "classics they'll be reading 50 years from now", which the
>>books I just listed all are.
>
>
> Who we? I haven't read any of the titles on your list.
>

I've read 3 of 4, and the good news is, boy have you got some great
reading ahead of you!


Randy M.

Garrett Wollman

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 4:37:06 PM6/7/06
to
In article <4486118F...@optonline.com>,
Andrew Wheeler <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:

>So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?

How depressing. I don't think I've read any of the other suggestions.
Searching my catalogue for books published between 1989 and 2000, I
find 91 books I bought from SFBC. (There's about a dozen more SF
books that I didn't buy from SFBC from that time period.) Excluding
the art books, there are very few titles I've actually read. I
certainly wouldn't put any of the Lackey books among the "best books
of the 1990s", even my personal favorite, /The Eagle and the
Nightingales/. The Diane Duane books are probably out; although the
first of the cat-wizards books (I forget which title you printed it
under; I don't have an SFBC edition) would work, it's not my favorite.
That leaves me with Elizabeth Willey's /The Well-Favored Man/, which
from everything I've heard was not rated highly by anyone else and did
not sell well. Extending into 2000, the only other title I get is Jo
Walton's /The King's Peace/, which is far and away the best book I
read that year.

For the record, these are the 91 titles. Note that some of these are
premiums, so it's not entirely a reflection on my taste, and anything
I *really* wanted I bought in the publisher's edition:

books=# select substr(title, 1, 40) as "Title", substr(all_authors(accession_num), 1, 30) as "Authors" from inventory where year_published between 1989 and 2000 and purchased_from = 'SFBC' order by "Authors", "Title";
Title | Authors
------------------------------------------+--------------------------------
Not of Woman Born | Ash, Constance (ed.)
Mammoth Book of Comic Fantasy II, The | Ashley, Mike (ed.)
Complete Stories, The, vol. 2 | Asimov, Isaac
I. Asimov | Asimov, Isaac
Ugly Little Boy, The | Asimov, Isaac; Silverberg, Rob
Yours, Isaac Asimov | Asimov, Stanley (ed.); Asimov,
Innkeeper's Song, The | Beagle, Peter S.
Night of the Wolf | Borchardt, Alice
Silver Wolf, The | Borchardt, Alice
Unexpected Dragon, The | Brown, Mary
Transluminal: The Paintings of Jim Burns | Burns, Jim; Burns, Jim (illus.
Encyclopedia of Science Fiction, The | Clute, John; Nicholls, Peter
Changing Vision | Czerneda, Julie E.
Thousand Words for Stranger, A | Czerneda, Julie E.
Ties of Power | Czerneda, Julie E.
Black Heart, Ivory Bones | Datlow, Ellen (ed.); Windling,
Sirens and other Daemon Lovers | Datlow, Ellen (ed.); Windling,
Infinite Worlds: The Fantastic Vision of | Di Fate, Vincent
Modern Classics of Science Fiction | Dozois, Gardner (ed.)
Year's Best Science Fiction, The: Ninth | Dozois, Gardner (ed.)
Support Your Local Wizard | Duane, Diane
Wizard Abroad, A | Duane, Diane
Maureen Birnbaum, Barbarian Swordsperson | Effinger, George Alec; Ranson,
Stephen E. Fabian's Ladies & Legends | Fabian, Stephen E.; Fabian, St
Stephen E. Fabian's Women & Wonders | Fabian, Stephen E.; Fabian, St
Icon: A Retrospective by the Grand Maste | Fenner, Arnie (ed.); Fenner, C
Legacy: Selected Paintings & Drawings by | Fenner, Arnie (ed.); Fenner, C
Spectrum 2: The Best in Contemporary Fan | Fenner, Cathy (ed.); Fenner, A
Spectrum 4: The Best in Contemporary Fan | Fenner, Cathy (ed.); Fenner, A
Spectrum 5: The Best in Contemporary Fan | Fenner, Cathy (ed.); Fenner, A
Spectrum 6: The Best in Contemporary Fan | Fenner, Cathy (ed.); Fenner, A
Spectrum 7: The Best in Contemporary Fan | Fenner, Cathy (ed.); Fenner, A
Spectrum III: The Best in Contemporary F | Fenner, Cathy (ed.); Fenner, A
Spectrum: The Best in Contemporary Fanta | Fenner, Cathy (ed.); Fenner, A
Six Easy Pieces | Feynman, Richard P.
Six Not-so-Easy Pieces | Feynman, Richard P.
Chick is in the Mail, The | Friesner, Esther (ed.)
Almost Everyone's Guide to Science | Gribbin, John; Gribbin, Mary
Methuselah's Children | Heinlein, Robert A.
Virgil Finlay's Women of the Ages | Hernandez, Lail Findlay; Finla
Fox Woman, The | Johnson, Kij
Dark Lord of Derkholm | Jones, Diana Wynne
Tough Guide to Fantasyland, The | Jones, Diana Wynne
Fantasy Art Masters | Jude, Dick
By the Sword | Lackey, Mercedes
Firebird | Lackey, Mercedes
Four and Twenty Blackbirds | Lackey, Mercedes
Lark and the Wren, The | Lackey, Mercedes
Last Herald-Mage, The | Lackey, Mercedes
Oathblood | Lackey, Mercedes
Queen's Own | Lackey, Mercedes
Vows and Honor | Lackey, Mercedes
Winds of Change | Lackey, Mercedes; Dixon, Larry
Winds of Fate | Lackey, Mercedes; Dixon, Larry
Winds of Fury | Lackey, Mercedes; Dixon, Larry
Black Unicorn | Lee, Tanith
Red Unicorn | Lee, Tanith
Gold Unicorn | Lee, Tanith; Zug, Mark (illus.
Confluence | McAuley, Paul J.
Crystal Line | McCaffrey, Anne
Fortress of the Pearl, The | Moorcock, Michael
Revenge of the Rose, The | Moorcock, Michael
Knightsbridge: The Art of Keith Parkinso | Parkinson, Keith; Parkinson, K
Faces of Fantasy, The | Perret, Patti (illus.)
Hogfather | Pratchett, Terry
Last Continent, The | Pratchett, Terry
Reaper Man | Pratchett, Terry
Rincewind the Wizzard | Pratchett, Terry
Tales of Discworld | Pratchett, Terry
Truth, The | Pratchett, Terry
Pleasure of Finding Things Out, The | Robbins, Jeffrey (ed.); Feynma
Dreams | Royo, Luis; Royo, Luis (illus.
Malefic | Royo, Luis; Royo, Luis (illus.
Secrets | Royo, Luis; Royo, Luis (illus.
Chronicles of the Lensmen, vol. 1 | Smith, Edward E.
Chronicles of the Lensmen, vol. 2 | Smith, Edward E.
Oathbound Wizard, The | Stasheff, Christopher
Secular Wizard, The | Stasheff, Christopher
Witch Doctor, The | Stasheff, Christopher
Alien Horizons: The Fantastic Art of Bob | Suckling, Nigel; Eggleton, Bob
Boris Vallejo Portfolio, The | Suckling, Nigel; Vallejo, Bori
Dreams: The Art of Boris Vallejo | Suckling, Nigel; Vallejo, Bori
Ladies: Retold Tales of Goddesses and He | Vallejo, Boris; Vallejo, Doris
Art of Rowena, The | Vallejo, Doris; Morrill, Rowen
Inner Visions: The Art of Ron Walotsky | Walotsky, Ron; Walotsky, Ron (
King's Peace, The | Walton, Jo
Art of Michael Whelan, The | Whelan, Michael; Whelan, Micha
Sorceror and a Gentleman, A | Willey, Elizabeth
Well-Favored Man, The | Willey, Elizabeth
Enchanted Forest Chronicles, The | Wrede, Patricia C.
Dark Force Rising | Zahn, Timothy
(91 rows)

Excluding the art books, I've actually read thirty of these.

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | As the Constitution endures, persons in every
wol...@csail.mit.edu | generation can invoke its principles in their own
Opinions not those | search for greater freedom.
of MIT or CSAIL. | - A. Kennedy, Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. 558 (2003)

David T. Bilek

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 4:36:58 PM6/7/06
to

Eh, wot the 'ell is "Mojo&the Pickle Jar"? The rest of your list
displays such good taste that I feel compelled to ask. (Well, okay,
I'm not a fan of _Darwinia_, but RCW is generally brilliant so I'll
give that a pass. Go _Spin_!)

-David

GSV Three Minds in a Can

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 4:05:29 PM6/7/06
to
Bitstring <pshkix...@xoxy.net>, from the wonderful person Ulrich
Elsner <usenet07060...@xoxy.net> said
<snip>

>> _A Game of Thrones_ - Martin, 1996. If you include any fantasy, this
>> should be it.
>
>Agreed.

Disagreed. Heck that is book1 of some indeterminate number of volumes in
a series which is still not finished (and may never be). Yes it was a
good book .. at least that's what I thought when I believed I was going
to see the rest in short order.

--

GSV Three Minds in a Can

Google may be your friend, but groups.google.com posters definitely aren't.

GSV Three Minds in a Can

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 4:01:56 PM6/7/06
to
Bitstring <e66mbt$8ir$1...@reader2.panix.com>, from the wonderful person
James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> said

>In article <weF8lwAn...@from.is.invalid>,
>GSV Three Minds in a Can <G...@quik.clara.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Crashlander Niven - Larry 1994
>
> ? I thought this was mostly older material, mainly from the 1960s?

Indeed, I bent the definition, but only slightly.

>And that the new material had serious continuity problems?

Nothing =I= couldn't live with though.

--

GSV Three Minds in a Can

Kurt Montandon

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 5:09:05 PM6/7/06
to
On 7 Jun 2006 11:46:00 -0700, "Gene Ward Smith"
<genewa...@gmail.com> wrote:

>For the 90's we have good stuff from Bujold and Powers, but not on the
>level of "classics they'll be reading 50 years from now",

No, I suspect they will be. I doubt anyone thought in the 50s-60s
that people today would still be reading Heinlein, Asimov, and Clarke.

And I seriously doubt books like _Use of Weapons_, _Brothers in Arms_
(or, rather the Vorkosigan books as a body), or _Fire Upon the Deep_
will have no readership in 50 years.

--


Kurt Montandon

r.r...@thevine.net

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 4:58:43 PM6/7/06
to
On 7 Jun 2006 07:04:42 -0700, "Iain King" <iain...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>_The Iron Dragon's Daughter_ by Michael Swanwick, which you could class
>as fantasy or scifi, but is stunning either way.
>As good as _A Game Of Thrones_ is, it works better accompanied by _A
>Clash of Kings_ and _A Storm of Swords_ (which I think is the strongest
>of the three), and I don't think putting a trilogy in would be viable
>:)

Make it an omnibus edition?

Rebecca

Konrad Gaertner

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 5:42:31 PM6/7/06
to
Konrad Gaertner wrote:
>
> Gaiman and Pratchett, _Good Omens_ (1990)
> Robert Jordan, _The Eye of the World_ (1990) (I still like it)
> Tanya Huff, _Blood Price_ (1991)
> Rosemary Edghill, _Speak Daggers to Her_ (1994)
> Rosemary Edghill, _Sword of Maiden's Tears_ (1994)
> Robin Hobb, _Assassin's Apprentice_ (1995)
> Garth Nix, _Sabriel_ (1995)
> George RR Martin, _A Game of Thrones_ (1996)
> Kage Baker, _In the Garden of Iden_ (1997)
> Diane Duane, _The Book of Night with Moon_ (1997)
> Martha Wells, _Death of the Necromancer_ (1998) (now out of print)
> F. Paul Wilson, _Legacies_ (1998)
> Steven Erikson, _Gardens of the Moon_ (1999)
> Kristine Smith, _Code of Conduct_ (1999)

Adding a few from other people's lists:

Eleanor Arnason, _A Woman of the Iron People_
Roger Zelazny, _A Night in the Lonesome October_
Steven Brust, _The Phoenix Guards_
Jo Walton, _The King's Peace_

Gene Ward Smith

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 6:08:03 PM6/7/06
to

Kurt Montandon wrote:

> And I seriously doubt books like _Use of Weapons_, _Brothers in Arms_
> (or, rather the Vorkosigan books as a body), or _Fire Upon the Deep_
> will have no readership in 50 years.

The Vorkosigan books as a whole probably, but which one of them is a
true classic? What was impressive about the list of previous decades is
that there were true classics in each decade. On the other hand, take
the 00s, and Bujold's Curse of Chalion probably will have fans 50 years
from now.

Gene Ward Smith

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 6:09:29 PM6/7/06
to

Konrad Gaertner wrote:
> Gene Ward Smith wrote:
> >
> > From the 80's list we can pick Anubis Gates, from the 70's list The
> > Mote in God's Eye, from the 60's list A Canticle for Leibowitz, from
> > the 50's list The Stars My Destination. These are all classic sf and
> > better than anything anyone has put on any of the 90's lists.
> >
> > For the 90's we have good stuff from Bujold and Powers, but not on the
> > level of "classics they'll be reading 50 years from now", which the
> > books I just listed all are.
>
> Who we? I haven't read any of the titles on your list.

Then you don't know much about sf, and have no basis for an opinion.

Peter D. Tillman

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 6:47:58 PM6/7/06
to
In article <1149705960.5...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,

"Gene Ward Smith" <genewa...@gmail.com> wrote:

> What a pukey decade for sf, when you compare it to what went before.

YMMV. Looks pretty darn good to me.

Cheers -- Pete Tillman

Gene Ward Smith

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 6:48:04 PM6/7/06
to

Kurt Montandon wrote:

> No, I suspect they will be. I doubt anyone thought in the 50s-60s
> that people today would still be reading Heinlein, Asimov, and Clarke.

The fans were convinced these were enduring classics for the ages. The
literary types mostly assumed it was forgettable, but I don't think any
of them could be convinced now that Use of Weapons, Brothers in Arms,
or Fire on the Deep are any better or more likely to prove enduring.

> And I seriously doubt books like _Use of Weapons_, _Brothers in Arms_
> (or, rather the Vorkosigan books as a body), or _Fire Upon the Deep_
> will have no readership in 50 years.

I have a suspicion A. E. van Vogt may have more readers than these will
by then, but who knows? Sf books, even the classic ones, have a
disturbing tendency to fade out of publised status. *No* readership is
awfully strong, though. Someone, somewhere, is reading or has recently
read a George O. Smith novel, but what does that get you really?

Peter D. Tillman

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 6:54:17 PM6/7/06
to
In article <e67ddi$9q2$1...@grapevine.csail.mit.edu>,
wol...@csail.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) wrote:

[long list of (mostly unread) books]

> Oathbound Wizard, The | Stasheff, Christopher
> Secular Wizard, The | Stasheff, Christopher
> Witch Doctor, The | Stasheff, Christopher

I'd say these would make good trade-in material. If not landfill.... <GG>

Cheers -- Pete Tillman

Andrew Wheeler

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 7:00:29 PM6/7/06
to
GSV Three Minds in a Can wrote:
>
> Bitstring <4486118F...@optonline.com>, from the wonderful person
> Andrew Wheeler <acwh...@optonline.com> said
> <big snip>

> >So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?
>
> OK, I'll play. Sadly I bet most of these are readily available
> elsewhere, or else a problem to get rights for (see also any of the
> Harry Potter novels!).

Yes -- I can say, without fear of contradiction, that I won't even
consider the Harry Potter books, since Scholastic is impossible to deal
with on the subject. (My parent company hasn't been able to even *start*
negotiations on #6, and I shudder to think what they'd say if I told
them I wanted to do a new cover for one of their books.)

> Book Title Author Name(s) Copyright date
>
> Raising the Stones Tepper - Sheri Stewart 1990

I think Tepper is pretty unlikely.

> Barrayar Bujold - Lois McMaster 1991

On the other hand, there will probably be one Bujold book on the list --
though I personally was leaning towards _Memory_.

> A Song for Arbonne Kay - Guy Gavriel 1992

I've never read that one, so maybe this is a good excuse.

> A Fire Upon the Deep Vinge - Vernor 1992

A very likely candidate. (Though Vinge's novels keep tanking in the
club, at roughly eight-year intervals.)

> Crashlander Niven - Larry 1994

> Chaga McDonald - Ian 1995

Called _Evolution's Shore_ in the US, and it might be too little known
to work. But it is a great book.

> Excession Banks - Iain M. 1996

I'd love to do a Banks book, and I might try to, but I do have to say
that club members have resoundingly refused to buy them from us for
years now.

> Darwinia Wilson - Robert Charles 1998

A RCW book would be a good idea, but this one can be a bit...divisive.

> Alternates ..
>
> The Fall of Hyperion Simmons - Dan 1990

I don't think we'd do just half of the story; we'd probably bring back
our _Hyperion Cantos_ omnibus outside the series.

> The Reality Dysfunction Hamilton - Peter F. 1996

Again, part of a larger story, and (not having read it) I get the
impression the individual books don't really stand alone.

> The Family Tree Tepper - Sheri Stewart 1997
> A Civil Campaign Bujold - Lois McMaster 1999
> A Deepness in the Sky Vinge - Vernor 1999

See above for these authors.

--
Andrew Wheeler: Professional Editor, Amateur Wise-Acre
--
If you enjoyed this post, try my blog at
http://antickmusings.blogspot.com
If you hated this post, you probably have bad taste anyway.

Andrew Wheeler

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 7:04:32 PM6/7/06
to
Anthony Nance wrote:
>
> In article <4486118F...@optonline.com>,

> Andrew Wheeler <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:
> >Here I am again, for the fifth (and probably last) annual go-round.
> >
> >Our previous installments, as seen in Google Groups:
> >1950s: http://tinyurl.com/jkmej
> >1960s: http://tinyurl.com/j9obv
> >1970s: http://tinyurl.com/gdux3
> >1980s: http://tinyurl.com/ha2t4
> >
> >For those who came in late, I'm an Senior Editor at the Science Fiction
> >Book Club, and we've been doing a multi-year series of some great books
> >of SF/Fantasy. We started in 2003 (our 50th Anniversary year) with 8
> >books from the '50s, and have continued, eight books for each decade, in
> >the years since then. 2007 will be the year for the '90s.
> >
> >I'll be reading for this series (or just looking over books I read not
> >all that long ago, this time) over the summer, so now is when I'm
> >gathering suggestions.
> >
> > <snip good stuff, just for length>
> >
> > I'm generally looking for books published between 1990 and 1999, but
> >I've bent that rule several times in the past, so books from 1989, 2000
> >or thereabouts aren't necessarily disqualified (but they should have a
> >really good reason to be on the list).
> >
> > <snip previous decades>

> >
> >
> >So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?
>
> I'm woefully under-read in the 90s, but I will toss out these five:
>
> Use Of Weapons - Banks
> Axiomatic - Egan (Only one of the stories was published pre-1990)

I would like to do an Egan book, probably either this one or _Quarantine_.

> A Deepness in the Sky - Vinge
> Aristoi - WJWilliams

A good pick.

> A Night in the Lonesome October - Zelazny (yeah, you did him already,
> and yeah, he's not really a "90s" author; just a favorite of mine)

It's kind of a minor Zelazny book -- in context, it was the book that
made us all think he was going to write great stuff again, but,
otherwise, it's not that special.

> And I'll note that Bujold's A Curse of Chalion is likely disqualified
> (bummer!), since the copyright page says "First Eos special printing:
> December 2000" right beneath "First EOS hardcover printing: August 2001".

I think if Bujold is on the list, it will be with a Vorkosigan book.

Andrew Wheeler

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 7:05:50 PM6/7/06
to
pacm...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Andrew Wheeler <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:
> [snip]

> > So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?
>
> > --
> > Andrew Wheeler: Professional Editor, Amateur Wise-Acre
> > --
> > If you enjoyed this post, try my blog at
> > http://antickmusings.blogspot.com
> > If you hated this post, you probably have bad taste anyway.
>
> I also vote for Vinge's _A Fire Upon the Deep_. (Not just because it's
> one of my all-time favorite SF novels, but I would *really* like a
> hardback copy of it.) :-)
>
> --
> Paul Carter
>
> SFBC member since about 1970

I wish you'd bought it at the time. We had several thousand of them
hanging around for *years*, and I think we eventually had to chop most
of 'em.

Andrew Wheeler

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 7:07:37 PM6/7/06
to
"art...@yahoo.com" wrote:

>
> Andrew Wheeler wrote:
> >
> > So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?
>
> Last Call Tim Powers

We did Powers in the '80s, so probably not.

> The Diamond Age and Cryptonomicon* Neal Stephenson

Stephenson should be on the final list, I hope -- the question really is
whether it should be _Snow Crash_ or _Diamond Age_.

> I think this was 99, but maybe it was 2000?
> China Mountain Zhang Maureen McHugh

Possible, but I doubt the club members would actually buy it.

> Passion Play Sean Stewart

Again, I don't think I could sell it -- it's the least-famous book by a
writer who isn't that well-known to begin with.

David T. Bilek

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 7:08:14 PM6/7/06
to
On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 21:05:29 +0100, GSV Three Minds in a Can
<G...@quik.clara.co.uk> wrote:
>Bitstring <pshkix...@xoxy.net>, from the wonderful person Ulrich
>Elsner <usenet07060...@xoxy.net> said
><snip>
>>> _A Game of Thrones_ - Martin, 1996. If you include any fantasy, this
>>> should be it.
>>
>>Agreed.
>
>Disagreed. Heck that is book1 of some indeterminate number of volumes in
>a series which is still not finished (and may never be). Yes it was a
>good book .. at least that's what I thought when I believed I was going
>to see the rest in short order.

What's that got to do with eligibility? The Bujold books are book X
of some indeterminate number of volumes about Miles et al, for
example.

-David

David T. Bilek

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 7:08:51 PM6/7/06
to

A three thousand page omnibus? Could you even make such a book? I
doubt bookbinding techniques are up to it.

-David

Andrew Wheeler

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 7:09:36 PM6/7/06
to
David Tate wrote:
>
> Elf M. Sternberg wrote:
> >
> > I also think that _Diaspora_ would be a better novel choice than the
> > short story collection _Axiomatic_, for Greg Egan. While it lacks some
> > of the near-mysticism of Axiomatic, Diaspora qualifies as a novel and
> > embodies much of Egan's main line of argument regarding the future of
> > humanity.
>
> Yes, but even granting that, it's much less *good*. For Andrew's
> purposes, I really don't care whether AXIOMATIC is representative Egan,
> so much as I care that it's most of the best stuff he ever wrote, and
> that stuff is very fine indeed.
>
> FWIW, that's also my argument for OTHERNESS over any of David Brin's
> '90s novels. The novels are probably more marketable, but the stories
> in OTHERNESS are better SF.
>
> (Now, Andrew will have to weigh the marketing disadvantages of a
> superior collection relative to an inferior novel, but that's his
> call.)

So far, the only collections I've done have been for Ellison (who never
really wrote a novel) and Tiptree (who wrote two minor ones, very late
in her career). I think if a writer has at least one good strong novel,
and should be in the series, we'd go for the novel every time -- even if
a collection contains "better" work.

People just buy novels much more than collections.

David T. Bilek

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 7:10:46 PM6/7/06
to
On 7 Jun 2006 15:09:29 -0700, "Gene Ward Smith"

I've read them all, of course, and I'd stack a few of the 90s books
with _The Anubis Gates_ and _The Mote in God's Eye_, at least. I've
always felt that both Niven and Pournelle were overrated. Most of
what they write is pure dreck, and _Mote_ was just okay.

-David

Andrew Wheeler

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 7:14:36 PM6/7/06
to
Konrad Gaertner wrote:

>
> Andrew Wheeler wrote:
> >
> > I'm generally looking for books published between 1990 and 1999, but
> > I've bent that rule several times in the past, so books from 1989, 2000
> > or thereabouts aren't necessarily disqualified (but they should have a
> > really good reason to be on the list).
>
> This should be a good decade for fantasy. Checking my booklog, I see
> that in the last year I've read at least one book from each year of
> this decade.

>
> Gaiman and Pratchett, _Good Omens_ (1990)

Did it in the last series.

> Robert Jordan, _The Eye of the World_ (1990) (I still like it)

Doesn't stand alone, and we already have it in print.

> Tanya Huff, _Blood Price_ (1991)

Does it work outside the context of the series? (I've never read Huff.)

> Rosemary Edghill, _Speak Daggers to Her_ (1994)

Isn't this one more of a mystery?

> Rosemary Edghill, _Sword of Maiden's Tears_ (1994)

Again, the beginning of a series (and an unfinished one at that).

> Robin Hobb, _Assassin's Apprentice_ (1995)

I'm really not going to be doing a collection of first novels of series.
I'd prefer the SFBC members held off on killing me for a few decades.

> Garth Nix, _Sabriel_ (1995)

We had it in a 3-in-1 recently, and it also make much more sense in the
context of the series.

> George RR Martin, _A Game of Thrones_ (1996)

In print, in series.

> Kage Baker, _In the Garden of Iden_ (1997)

We did it in a 2-in-1, which tanked. We did the next two books in the
series. (Guess how they sold.) A few years later, we did the *next* two
as another omnibus (no change). This isn't even the best novel in the
series, so I don't think it's even a candidate.

> Diane Duane, _The Book of Night with Moon_ (1997)

As I recall, this is a series book that *does* stand on its own, so I
guess it's possible.

> Martha Wells, _Death of the Necromancer_ (1998) (now out of print)

I suspect Wells is too minor for a series like this (though I've really
liked all of the books of hers I've read).

> F. Paul Wilson, _Legacies_ (1998)

Isn't this a middle "Repairman Jack" novel?

> Steven Erikson, _Gardens of the Moon_ (1999)

In print, in series.

> Kristine Smith, _Code of Conduct_ (1999)

Gosh, you like your series, don't you, Konrad? <smile>

David T. Bilek

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 7:15:12 PM6/7/06
to
On Wed, 07 Jun 2006 19:00:29 -0400, Andrew Wheeler
<acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:
>GSV Three Minds in a Can wrote:

...

>> A Fire Upon the Deep Vinge - Vernor 1992
>
>A very likely candidate. (Though Vinge's novels keep tanking in the
>club, at roughly eight-year intervals.)
>

...

>
>> Excession Banks - Iain M. 1996
>
>I'd love to do a Banks book, and I might try to, but I do have to say
>that club members have resoundingly refused to buy them from us for
>years now.
>

Uh, what authors *do* your readers buy? Besides obvious fantasy
bestsellers, I mean.

-David

Andrew Wheeler

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 7:22:09 PM6/7/06
to
"David T. Bilek" wrote:

>
> On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 19:36:47 -0400, Andrew Wheeler
> <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:
>
> >Here I am again, for the fifth (and probably last) annual go-round.
>
> Won't you need to do this again in 7-8 years for the 00's?

>
> >
> >Our previous installments, as seen in Google Groups:
> >1950s: http://tinyurl.com/jkmej
> >1960s: http://tinyurl.com/j9obv
> >1970s: http://tinyurl.com/gdux3
> >1980s: http://tinyurl.com/ha2t4
> >
>
> ...

>
> >
> >So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?
> >
>
> _Use of Weapons_ - Banks, 1990. Stunning and brilliant. Banks' best
> work and a precursor of the current belle epoch of British science
> fiction.

I would like to, but it depends on how the rest of the list shapes up.
(I.e., I need to have some books that I know will sell, and then I can
sneak in a couple that won't.)

> _A Fire Upon the Deep_ - Vinge, 1992. Do I really need to comment?
> Just say yes.

The final list will probably have either this or _Deepness_, yes.

> _Metropolitan_/_City On Fire_ - Williams (Walter Jon) 1994ish. Great,
> great books, and he needs the help to get the third one published.
> Maybe an omnibus? Pretty please? Come on, cut a brother a break?

Nope. No omnibuses in this series. If he gets the third one written and
published, though, I'd love to do a 3-in-1 (though it might be too big;
these aren't short books).

> _Axiomatic_ - Egan, 1995. The best single-author collection in recent
> memory. If you include any short fiction, it should be the Egan.

Yes, but he also has important novels, and novels outsell collections
about 5-to-1. If I want to get Egan into people's hands, _Axiomatic_
isn't the way to go.



> _A Game of Thrones_ - Martin, 1996. If you include any fantasy, this
> should be it.

In print, starts an unfinished series. I'm not going to do "chapter one"
of anything, no matter how good it is or how much I like it.

> _The Fortunate Fall_ - Carter, 1996. Wonderful book and the only
> novel by the author. I wonder why she stopped writing? (Yeah, yeah,
> I said 'she'. Deal with it, people!)

Maybe, but I have the feeling I'd sell about five copies.

> _Mirror Dance_ or _A Civil Campaign_ - Bujold, 1994 and 1999
> respectively. Either would be a great choice. Bujold has won the
> most Best Novel Hugo Awards since Heinlein, I don't see how it would
> be possible to make your list without including at least one of her
> books.

I probably will do a Bujold -- the question is which one...

> _Snow Crash_ or _Cryptonomicon_ - Stephenson, 1992 and 1999
> respectively. I prefer the latter, but the former is important for a
> lot of reasons.

I agree with doing Stephenson, but _Cryptonomicon_ won't be in the
running; it's really not SF.

> This is a strong list. Very marketable(I think). Even stuff like the
> Williams that didn't get a break when it was first published. What's
> not to like? Pleeeease, pleeeease choose my list!
>
> Alternates
>
> _Perdido Street Station_ - Mieville, 2000. Yeah, it's 2000. That's
> why it is alternate.

Unfortunately, we're sitting on a pile of unsold _Iron Council_s, so
probably not.

> _Revelation Space_ - Reynolds, 2000. Yeah, 2000 again. Alternate.
> Perfect example of the New Space Opera, though.

We did it at the time (2001 in the US), which isn't all that long ago --
so probably not.

> _Holy Fire_ - Sterling, mumbleyear. You already did _Schismatrix_ for
> the 80's, though, so he gets put down here in the alternates.

I like Sterling, but we didn't even do *Heinlein* twice.

> Something by John Barnes. _Orbital Resonance_ or _A Million Open
> Doors_, perhaps. Maybe instead of Carter. More saleable?

I like him, but he's borderline-salable in the club (but that is higher
than Carter, who I expect wouldn't go at all). _Orbital_ stands alone
well and is a great book...Hm. Maybe.

> Something by MacLeod. _The Cassini Division_ or _The Sky Road_,
> maybe? Also more saleable?

Again, it's probably too recent, and they don't completely stand alone.

> ******
>
> Is it just me or was there a lot of damn fine science fiction at the
> turn of the millenium? 1999-2001 was very strong.

The '90s look like a good decade for SF to me in general.

Andrew Wheeler

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 7:24:42 PM6/7/06
to
Iain King wrote:
>
> David T. Bilek wrote:
> > On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 19:36:47 -0400, Andrew Wheeler
> > <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:
> > >So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?
> > >

> > _A Game of Thrones_ - Martin, 1996. If you include any fantasy, this
> > should be it.
> >
>
> Exactly. Well, apart from:


>
> _The Iron Dragon's Daughter_ by Michael Swanwick, which you could class
> as fantasy or scifi, but is stunning either way.

This or _Stations of the Tide_ are possible; I love Swanwick.

> As good as _A Game Of Thrones_ is, it works better accompanied by _A
> Clash of Kings_ and _A Storm of Swords_ (which I think is the strongest
> of the three), and I don't think putting a trilogy in would be viable
> :)

And _A Feast for Crows_, and the books Martin hasn't written yet...

Andrew Wheeler

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 7:27:04 PM6/7/06
to

Three thousand-page books in one? We'd have to make it folio-sized, on
bible paper, and it would probably still be over a thousand pages.

How does a retail price of $49.99 strike you?

Of course, then we could do a matching volume of the second half of the
series, 'round about 2020...

Andrew Wheeler

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 7:28:32 PM6/7/06
to
James Nicoll wrote:
>
> Sticking just to new authors [1] from the 1990s and to SF:
>
> ORBITAL RESONANCE (John Barnes)
>
> JUMPER (Stephen Gould)
>
> VAST (Linda Nagata)

Not _The Bohr Maker_?

(This is probably a better novel, but, unfortunately, the club did both
and _Bohr_ sold but _Vast_ didn't.)

> SABRIEL (Garth Nix)
>
> THE FORTUNATE FALL (Raphael Carter)
>
> THE STONE CANAL (Ken Macleod)
>
> CHINA MOUNTAIN ZHANG (Maureen McHugh)
>
> VOYAGE (Stephen Baxter)

<Blinks twice. Does a slow double-take.>

Andrew Wheeler

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 7:29:42 PM6/7/06
to
Mike Schilling wrote:
>
> Mirror Dance, Bujold
> Aristoi, WJW
> The Phoenix Guard, Brust
> A Game of Thrones, Martin
>
> And then comes a great silence.

No Egan? No Banks? None o' them new-fangled Brits?

John Pelan

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 8:00:07 PM6/7/06
to
On Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:36:58 -0700, David T. Bilek
<dtb...@comcast.net> wrote:

>John Pelan <jpe...@qwest.net> wrote:
>>On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 19:36:47 -0400, Andrew Wheeler
>><acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:
>>

>>>Here I am again, for the fifth (and probably last) annual go-round.
>>>

>>>Our previous installments, as seen in Google Groups:
>>>1950s: http://tinyurl.com/jkmej
>>>1960s: http://tinyurl.com/j9obv
>>>1970s: http://tinyurl.com/gdux3
>>>1980s: http://tinyurl.com/ha2t4
>>

>>Okay, taking your considerations into account:
>>
>>Use of Weapons - Ian Banks
>>Darwinia - Robert Charles Wilson (I'm sure there will be a BCE of SPIN
>>after it wins the Hugo, but that shouldn't disqualify this one).
>>Last Call -Tim Powers
>>Axiomatic - Greg Egan (just maybe the best single-author collection
>>ever assembled)
>>Hyperion - Dan Simmons
>>Mojo & the Pickle Jar - Douglas Bell
>>A Fire Upon the Deep - Vernor Vinge
>>The Vor Game - Lois McMaster Bujold
>>
>>
>>(See, I restrained myself and included no horror titles; and with one
>>exception actually took commercial considerations into account) ;-)
>
>Eh, wot the 'ell is "Mojo&the Pickle Jar"? The rest of your list
>displays such good taste that I feel compelled to ask. (Well, okay,
>I'm not a fan of _Darwinia_, but RCW is generally brilliant so I'll
>give that a pass. Go _Spin_!)
>
>-David


HA! I knew someone would ask... It wouldn't be a Pelan list without
one oddball book that nobody else has heard of. ;-)

It's quite simply the most brilliant little book that no one seems to
have read. A mass-market original from TOR that appeared and
disappeared without any fanfare. A damn shame...

Here's the cover blurb:
"A demon in a pickle jar? That's what Juanita claimed, but to Mojo the
thing in the jar looked more like a diseased crab apple.Mojo will
discover what's in the jar.and along the way he'll learn what the
secret of Hell really is, how to preach down an archdevil by
belittling his genitalia.and why you must always have a statue of
Elvis on the dashboard of your car."

There's a bunch of copies on ABE for a buck or two. Give it a try...

As to RCW, I thought about THE PERSEIDS, but I already had picked one
short story collection.

Cheers,

John

Andrew Wheeler

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 8:14:29 PM6/7/06
to
Aaron Bergman wrote:
>
> The Iron Dragon's Daughter, Michael Swanwick
> The Sorceress and the Cygnet, Patricia McKillip
> The Lions of al-Rassan (narrowly over Tigana), GG Kay
> A Deepness in the Sky (narrowly over AFutD), Vernor Vinge
> Use of Weapons, Iain Banks
> Permutation City, Greg Egan
> Aristoi, Walter Jon Williams
> Snow Crash, Neal Stephenson
>
> If you allow first in series, I'd think about including one of these:
>
> Hyperion, Dan Simmons
> The Golden Compass (The Northern Lights), Philip Pullman

We have this in print, along with the rest of the trilogy.

> A Game of Thrones, George RR Martin
> Sabriel, Garth Nix
> The Sparrow, Mary Doria Russel
>
> The last two stand alone fairly well, though.

_The Sparrow_ in particular, I expect, since that's just a novel that
grew a sequel rather than the beginning of a pre-planned series.

> I also really, really want to include City on Fire by WJW, but it's the
> second book in an incomplete series.

And so kind of outside the point of the series -- a great book, though.

Andrew Wheeler

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 8:17:38 PM6/7/06
to
David Tate wrote:

>
> Andrew Wheeler wrote:
> > Here I am again, for the fifth (and probably last) annual go-round.
> >
> > I'm generally looking for books published between 1990 and 1999, but
> > I've bent that rule several times in the past, so books from 1989, 2000
> > or thereabouts aren't necessarily disqualified (but they should have a
> > really good reason to be on the list).
>
> > So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?
>
> Novels:
> Vernor Vinge, A FIRE UPON THE DEEP
> Walter Jon Williams, METROPOLITAN
> Neal Stephenson, SNOW CRASH
> Tim Powers, LAST CALL
> Steven Brust, THE PHOENIX GUARDS

Really? One of the best novels of the decade? I don't quite see it, but
OK. (This strikes me as similar to saying _One for the Morning Glory_ is
Barnes's best book and a strong contender.)

> Roger Zelazny, A NIGHT IN THE LONESOME OCTOBER
> Mary Doria Russell, THE SPARROW
> Connie Willis, DOOMSDAY BOOK

This is a very likely candidate.

> Collections:
> Greg Egan, AXIOMATIC
> David Brin, OTHERNESS

We did Brin in the '80s series, so, even if this *wasn't* a collection,
it would be pretty unlikely.

> The one I feel most strongly about is the Egan, which has a
> straight-faced claim to be the best SF original single-author
> collection of all time. After that, well, they're all wonderful.

I agree with you about how good the Egan book is, but I think I'll have
to go with a novel.

Andrew Wheeler

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 8:22:18 PM6/7/06
to
Bill Patterson wrote:
>
> Nothing by Gibson on the list. Can't check pub dates, but weren't
> there at least three of his major books published in the 1990's?

I think his second (very loose) trilogy -- _Virtual Light_, _Idoru_ and
_All Tomorrow's Parties_ -- are all '90s books.

Yep -- '93, '96, '99.

But I think Gibson's place would have been on the '80s list, with
_Neuromancer_ -- except that we had just recently done that book in the
club at that point. The '80s really were his decade; the '90s, not so much.

Andrew Wheeler

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 8:24:54 PM6/7/06
to
Ken from Chicago wrote:
>
> "Andrew Wheeler" <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote in message
> news:4486118F...@optonline.com...

> > Here I am again, for the fifth (and probably last) annual go-round.
> >
> > Our previous installments, as seen in Google Groups:
> > 1950s: http://tinyurl.com/jkmej
> > 1960s: http://tinyurl.com/j9obv
> > 1970s: http://tinyurl.com/gdux3
> > 1980s: http://tinyurl.com/ha2t4
> >
> > For those who came in late, I'm an Senior Editor at the Science Fiction
> > Book Club, and we've been doing a multi-year series of some great books
> > of SF/Fantasy. We started in 2003 (our 50th Anniversary year) with 8
> > books from the '50s, and have continued, eight books for each decade, in
> > the years since then. 2007 will be the year for the '90s.
> >
> > I'll be reading for this series (or just looking over books I read not
> > all that long ago, this time) over the summer, so now is when I'm
> > gathering suggestions.
> >
> > As usual, I'm hoping this will spark some general discussion (as well as
> > giving me some datapoints), so I don't want to constrain things too
> > much, but here are some of the considerations I'll have to take into
> > account with the final list:
> >
> > I only have eight books to cover the whole decade.
>
> Why eight? Wouldn't it be logical and easier to go for 10 books, one for
> each year?

When we started, we wanted to do it every other month (so we could also
do other classics, interspersed, as the year went on). We had seventeen
"months" a year back then, so eight books was about right, and gave us
an extra "month" breather at the end of the year.

We're up to eighteen "months" now, but I think we'll keep tto eight
books to a series, for the sake of consistency.

Andrew Wheeler

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 8:27:30 PM6/7/06
to
John Pelan wrote:
>
> On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 19:36:47 -0400, Andrew Wheeler
> <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:
>
> >Here I am again, for the fifth (and probably last) annual go-round.
> >
> >Our previous installments, as seen in Google Groups:
> >1950s: http://tinyurl.com/jkmej
> >1960s: http://tinyurl.com/j9obv
> >1970s: http://tinyurl.com/gdux3
> >1980s: http://tinyurl.com/ha2t4
>
> Okay, taking your considerations into account:
>
> Use of Weapons - Ian Banks
> Darwinia - Robert Charles Wilson (I'm sure there will be a BCE of SPIN
> after it wins the Hugo, but that shouldn't disqualify this one).

We have _Spin_ in the club already, actually. And _Darwinia_ is a strong contender.

> Last Call -Tim Powers
> Axiomatic - Greg Egan (just maybe the best single-author collection
> ever assembled)
> Hyperion - Dan Simmons

Not sure if I've addressed this one in one of my three-dozen other
replies this evening, but we'd probably bring back the _Hyperion Cantos_
2-in-1 instead, since _Hyperion_ really is just the first half of a
longer novel.

> Mojo & the Pickle Jar - Douglas Bell

Yes. Well. OK, maybe I'll look it up...

> A Fire Upon the Deep - Vernor Vinge
> The Vor Game - Lois McMaster Bujold
>
> (See, I restrained myself and included no horror titles; and with one
> exception actually took commercial considerations into account) ;-)

And I appreciate it!

Andrew Wheeler

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 8:36:49 PM6/7/06
to
"Peter D. Tillman" wrote:
>
> In article <4486118F...@optonline.com>,
> Andrew Wheeler <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:
>
> > So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?
>
> Just eight, eh?
>
> OK, in alphabetical order, and looking for some less-obvious choices:
>
> Eleanor Arnason, A Woman of the Iron People (91). "A+", arguably the
> best-ever annthropological-SF novel. My review:
> http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/nonfiction/ironpeople.htm

Maybe, but I'm afraid no one remembers it.

> Ian M. Banks, Against a Dark Background (93). "A/A+" -- exemplary tragic
> modern space-opera. Who could resist the luscious Zefla Franck? My
> review:
> <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=7m4sta%244v3%241%40alexander.INS.CW
> RU.Edu>

Instead of _Use of Weapons_? See, I thought the rasfw consensus would
come down hard on UoW.

> Greg Egan, DISTRESS (97). His best novel, with astonishing richness and
> density of invention. My review:
> http://darkplanet.basespace.net/nonfict/gegan.html

I'd like to do an Egan book, but I think it needs to be one with a
bigger gosh-wow factor.

> Joe Haldeman, The Hemingway Hoax (90). Arguably Haldeman's best yet. The
> novella's tighter, but the novel's great, too.

Hm. Possible. But we did _Forever War_ in the '70s series, and I'm
trying not to repeat authors.

> Wil McCarthy, Bloom (98). "A/A+". A thoughtful hard-sf novel of ideas,
> arguably McCarthy's best yet. My review:
> http://darkplanet.basespace.net/nonfict/bloom.html

Well, the members avoided it like a nasty nanotech plague for space the
first time, but I could always try again.

> L.E. Modesitt, Jr., The Ecolitan Enigma (97). "A/A+": a hard-eyed look
> at an ancient human dilemma - how can we deal with political monsters?
> My review: http://www.sfsite.com/06b/eco35.htm

I've never read Modesitt's SF, and never seen it praised this highly.
I'd have to take a look at it.

> Bruce Sterling, Holy Fire (96). "A+", his best yet (and maybe ever):
> http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&selm=an_203574236

Already did Sterling once, I'm afraid, and he's not big enough to do twice.

> Michael Swanwick. The Iron Dragon's Daughter (93) is clearly (imo) his
> best novel, but isn't quite SF. But, boy, is it good.

I mean "SF" in the usual rasfw sense of "Speculative Fiction," so it
easily qualifies. And it's one of the books on my possibles list already.

> Walter Jon Williams, Metropolitan omnibus (95-97). OK, you didn't want
> omnibi, and this is borderline-SF again, but this is WJW's best work so
> far, and arguably the best (incomplete) novel of the 90's. Both A+,
> simply spectacular.

No omnibuses for this series, sorry. Maybe some other time.

> Yeah, I know that's nine....

Hey, who's counting!?

David Tate

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 8:37:50 PM6/7/06
to
Andrew Wheeler wrote:
> David Tate wrote:
> > Novels:

> > Steven Brust, THE PHOENIX GUARDS
>
> Really? One of the best novels of the decade? I don't quite see it, but
> OK.

As with Zelazny's A NIGHT IN THE LONESOME OCTOBER, it's an example of
choosing to do something derivative and amusing, and doing it nearly
flawlessly. I admire perfection, even in pastiche. Both works are
immensely entertaining, which I would think might appeal to your
commercial needs even more than being immensely good SF.

Brust's other works of the decade are inextricably enmeshed in the
Taltos series. I think ATHYRA is a great book, but not a standalone.

> > Roger Zelazny, A NIGHT IN THE LONESOME OCTOBER
> > Mary Doria Russell, THE SPARROW
> > Connie Willis, DOOMSDAY BOOK
>
> This is a very likely candidate.

But not the Russell? Given my choice, I'd rather have THE SPARROW.

> > Collections:
> > Greg Egan, AXIOMATIC
> > David Brin, OTHERNESS
>
> We did Brin in the '80s series, so, even if this *wasn't* a collection,
> it would be pretty unlikely.

I figured, but it was a convenient soapbox.

> > The one I feel most strongly about is the Egan, which has a
> > straight-faced claim to be the best SF original single-author
> > collection of all time. After that, well, they're all wonderful.
>
> I agree with you about how good the Egan book is, but I think I'll have
> to go with a novel.

There's something very sad about having to say "we were going to offer
you one of the best SF books of recent memory, but it had more than one
story in it so we knew you wouldn't like it". Not that I doubt for a
minute that you're right about how well it would sell...

David Tate

Mike Schilling

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 8:38:17 PM6/7/06
to

"Andrew Wheeler" <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote in message
news:448760C8...@optonline.com...

> r.r...@thevine.net wrote:
>>
>> On 7 Jun 2006 07:04:42 -0700, "Iain King" <iain...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >_The Iron Dragon's Daughter_ by Michael Swanwick, which you could class
>> >as fantasy or scifi, but is stunning either way.
>> >As good as _A Game Of Thrones_ is, it works better accompanied by _A
>> >Clash of Kings_ and _A Storm of Swords_ (which I think is the strongest
>> >of the three), and I don't think putting a trilogy in would be viable
>> >:)
>>
>> Make it an omnibus edition?
>
> Three thousand-page books in one? We'd have to make it folio-sized, on
> bible paper, and it would probably still be over a thousand pages.

Or do it OED-style with a magnifying glass :-)


Andrew Wheeler

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 8:39:09 PM6/7/06
to
Garrett Wollman wrote:
>
> In article <4486118F...@optonline.com>,
> Andrew Wheeler <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:
>
> >So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?
>
> How depressing. I don't think I've read any of the other suggestions.
> Searching my catalogue for books published between 1989 and 2000, I
> find 91 books I bought from SFBC.

Well, you know, even if we've done a book before, we often renew or
re-buy the rights to do it again. And this series isn't limited to books
that we've done in the past -- some of the books have been specifically
chosen to use things we never offered in the first place (like _Under
Pressure_ or _Her Smoke Rose Up Forever_).

Mike Schilling

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 8:39:28 PM6/7/06
to

"Andrew Wheeler" <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote in message
news:44876166...@optonline.com...

> Mike Schilling wrote:
>>
>> Mirror Dance, Bujold
>> Aristoi, WJW
>> The Phoenix Guard, Brust
>> A Game of Thrones, Martin
>>
>> And then comes a great silence.
>
> No Egan? No Banks? None o' them new-fangled Brits?

Young whippersnappers! Not a Cleve Cartmill in the bunch of 'em.


Kurt Montandon

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 8:52:30 PM6/7/06
to
On 7 Jun 2006 15:08:03 -0700, "Gene Ward Smith"
<genewa...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>Kurt Montandon wrote:
>
>> And I seriously doubt books like _Use of Weapons_, _Brothers in Arms_
>> (or, rather the Vorkosigan books as a body), or _Fire Upon the Deep_
>> will have no readership in 50 years.
>
>The Vorkosigan books as a whole probably, but which one of them is a
>true classic? What was impressive about the list of previous decades is
>that there were true classics in each decade.

Yes, but how many years does it take to for a classic to be, uh,
classified as such? By people other than the most outspoken fans of
the genre - say, by the average reader. The average reader in 1960,
hitting the _Foundation Trilogy_ for the first time, may have been
modestly impressed, but would they have considered the work enduring?

The 90s might just be a tad too recent to judge. Which isn't really
the topic at hand, fortunately.


--


Kurt Montandon

Jack Tingle

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 9:32:38 PM6/7/06
to
On Wed, 07 Jun 2006 19:07:37 -0400, Andrew Wheeler
<acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:

>"art...@yahoo.com" wrote:

>> The Diamond Age and Cryptonomicon* Neal Stephenson
>
>Stephenson should be on the final list, I hope -- the question really is
>whether it should be _Snow Crash_ or _Diamond Age_.

Definitely DA. SC was cute, but just didn't have any kind of weight.
(Hiro Protagonist? I mean ... really!) DA wasn't one of my most
favorite books, but it still is the cyber-nano-bio-preSingularity-punk
exemplar. Not as good in that tiny sub-genre as Goonan's River books,
but those would be too long in aggregate, and only doing "Queen City
Jazz" would be cruel.

>> Passion Play Sean Stewart
>
>Again, I don't think I could sell it -- it's the least-famous book by a
>writer who isn't that well-known to begin with.

I really, really like Stewart, but I can't see you using any of his
stuff. "Galveston", maybe at a stretch. My personal favorite is
"Cloud's End", but I'd almost rather you didn't even consider it.

Regards, and best of luck in your quest,
Jack Tingle

Garrett Wollman

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 9:47:25 PM6/7/06
to
In article <448771AD...@optonline.com>,
Andrew Wheeler <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:

>Well, you know, even if we've done a book before, we often renew or
>re-buy the rights to do it again. And this series isn't limited to books
>that we've done in the past -- some of the books have been specifically
>chosen to use things we never offered in the first place (like _Under
>Pressure_ or _Her Smoke Rose Up Forever_).

I limited to my list to SFBC titles because most of the remaining 177
titles are non-fiction, and it would have been a pain to sift through
them all since I don't currently have a database column for that. So
I can only reiterate my support for books that nobody else seems to
like.

Not related to the series under discussion (it's a 2002 title), but if
you've never done Diane Duane's /Stealing the Elf-King's Roses/, you
really owe it to the membership to give it a try.

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | As the Constitution endures, persons in every
wol...@csail.mit.edu | generation can invoke its principles in their own
Opinions not those | search for greater freedom.
of MIT or CSAIL. | - A. Kennedy, Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. 558 (2003)

Garrett Wollman

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 9:49:47 PM6/7/06
to
In article <Tillman-0A7590...@sn-radius.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
Peter D. Tillman <Til...@toast.net_DIESPAMMERSDIE> wrote:

>> Oathbound Wizard, The | Stasheff, Christopher
>> Secular Wizard, The | Stasheff, Christopher
>> Witch Doctor, The | Stasheff, Christopher
>
>I'd say these would make good trade-in material. If not landfill.... <GG>

I'd get rid of the Timothy Zahn STAR WARS book first. But I'm a
confirmed bibliophile and can't bring myself to let any title, no
matter how awful, out of my hands. (Those three are not among the
ones I've read, as it happens, so I have no particular opinion, other
than noting the general received wisdom that Stasheff is an auctorial
lightweight.)

Mike Schilling

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 10:01:09 PM6/7/06
to

"Andrew Wheeler" <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote in message
news:44877121...@optonline.com...

>
>> Joe Haldeman, The Hemingway Hoax (90). Arguably Haldeman's best yet. The
>> novella's tighter, but the novel's great, too.
>
> Hm. Possible. But we did _Forever War_ in the '70s series, and I'm
> trying not to repeat authors.
>

I'll buy it if you explain the endiong to me.


Jack Tingle

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 10:05:26 PM6/7/06
to
On 7 Jun 2006 17:37:50 -0700, "David Tate" <dt...@ida.org> wrote:
>Andrew Wheeler wrote:
>> David Tate wrote:
>> > Roger Zelazny, A NIGHT IN THE LONESOME OCTOBER
>> > Mary Doria Russell, THE SPARROW
>> > Connie Willis, DOOMSDAY BOOK
>>
>> This is a very likely candidate.
>
>But not the Russell? Given my choice, I'd rather have THE SPARROW.

HUH?! Let's see Connie Willis is currently the world champeen for
number of sf awards, completely dominating (crushing?) the 90's.
"Doomsday Book" was arguably her first big novel and a double winner
(Hugo and Nebula). It was also the keystone of the "Fire
Watch/DB/TSNoTD" triplet. (Yes, I know a vocal subset of rasfw has a
problem with her number of wins. Get over it.)

MDR has written three sf books, one of them noteworthy.

I think the Willis wins hands down, although I really liked
"Bellweather" better. DGNED.

Puzzledly,
Jack Tingle

OBTW, I used Agent to 'join' the first umpty-eleven posts on this
dandy thread and save them. I'm going to cull them for my reading
list. I was busy during the 90's with RealLife(TM).

Andrew, it would be a boon to sf-kind if you'd publish your
preliminary lists as well as the final cuts for the preceding decades.
We could even call them the Wheeler Decadal Lists, if your ego likes,
or the SFBC Decadal Lists if your employer likes better. :)

Paul Connelly

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 10:29:28 PM6/7/06
to
In article <4486118F...@optonline.com>, Andrew Wheeler
<acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:

> Here I am again, for the fifth (and probably last) annual go-round.
>
> Our previous installments, as seen in Google Groups:
> 1950s: http://tinyurl.com/jkmej
> 1960s: http://tinyurl.com/j9obv
> 1970s: http://tinyurl.com/gdux3
> 1980s: http://tinyurl.com/ha2t4
>

> For those who came in late, I'm an Senior Editor at the Science Fiction
> Book Club, and we've been doing a multi-year series of some great books
> of SF/Fantasy. We started in 2003 (our 50th Anniversary year) with 8
> books from the '50s, and have continued, eight books for each decade, in
> the years since then. 2007 will be the year for the '90s.

The Bones of Time (Kathleen Ann Goonan)
Doomsday Book (Connie Willis)
Parable of the Sower (Octavia Butler)
Snow Crash (Neal Stephenson)
The Sparrow (Mary Doria Russell)
Halfway Human (Carolyn Ives Gilman)
A Fire on the Deep (Vernor Vinge)
Whiteout (Sage Walker)

Aaron Bergman

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 10:27:25 PM6/7/06
to
In article <44876039...@optonline.com>,
Andrew Wheeler <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:

> Iain King wrote:
> >
> > David T. Bilek wrote:
> > > On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 19:36:47 -0400, Andrew Wheeler
> > > <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:
> > > >So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?
> > > >
>
> > > _A Game of Thrones_ - Martin, 1996. If you include any fantasy, this
> > > should be it.
> > >
> >
> > Exactly. Well, apart from:
> >
> > _The Iron Dragon's Daughter_ by Michael Swanwick, which you could class
> > as fantasy or scifi, but is stunning either way.
>
> This or _Stations of the Tide_ are possible; I love Swanwick.

I would have included both on my list if you hadn't asked for no
repeats. I think I'd say that _The Iron Dragon's Daughter_ is the best
book of the decade, but _Stations of the Tide_ isn't terribly far behind.

Aaron

jwra...@aol.com

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 10:44:28 PM6/7/06
to

GSV Three Minds in a Can wrote:
> Bitstring <4486118F...@optonline.com>, from the wonderful person
> Andrew Wheeler <acwh...@optonline.com> said
> <big snip>

> >So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of the 1990s?
>
> OK, I'll play. Sadly I bet most of these are readily available
> elsewhere, or else a problem to get rights for (see also any of the
> Harry Potter novels!).
>
> Book Title Author Name(s) Copyright date
>
> Raising the Stones Tepper - Sheri Stewart 1990
> Barrayar Bujold - Lois McMaster 1991
> A Song for Arbonne Kay - Guy Gavriel 1992
> A Fire Upon the Deep Vinge - Vernor 1992
> Crashlander Niven - Larry 1994
> Chaga McDonald - Ian 1995

> Excession Banks - Iain M. 1996
> Darwinia Wilson - Robert Charles 1998
>
> Alternates ..
>
> The Fall of Hyperion Simmons - Dan 1990
> The Reality Dysfunction Hamilton - Peter F. 1996
> The Family Tree Tepper - Sheri Stewart 1997
> A Civil Campaign Bujold - Lois McMaster 1999
> A Deepness in the Sky Vinge - Vernor 1999
>
> --

> GSV Three Minds in a Can
> Google may be your friend, but groups.google.com posters definitely aren't.

When you list Fall of Hyperion, you really mean the two books together,
right? They are really one big novel. The SFBC used to have the
Hyperion Cantos, which is the best way to have it for lending purposes.
If they ever have that again, I'll buy it just to lend it to friends.
Are you listening SFBC?

Aaron Bergman

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 10:38:02 PM6/7/06
to
In article <44876BE5...@optonline.com>,
Andrew Wheeler <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:

> Aaron Bergman wrote:
> >
> > The Iron Dragon's Daughter, Michael Swanwick
> > The Sorceress and the Cygnet, Patricia McKillip
> > The Lions of al-Rassan (narrowly over Tigana), GG Kay
> > A Deepness in the Sky (narrowly over AFutD), Vernor Vinge
> > Use of Weapons, Iain Banks
> > Permutation City, Greg Egan

If anthologies are allowed, then I'll go with everyone else and replace
this with Axiomatic.

> > Aristoi, Walter Jon Williams
> > Snow Crash, Neal Stephenson
> >
> > If you allow first in series, I'd think about including one of these:
> >
> > Hyperion, Dan Simmons
> > The Golden Compass (The Northern Lights), Philip Pullman
>
> We have this in print, along with the rest of the trilogy.
>
> > A Game of Thrones, George RR Martin
> > Sabriel, Garth Nix
> > The Sparrow, Mary Doria Russel
> >
> > The last two stand alone fairly well, though.
>
> _The Sparrow_ in particular, I expect, since that's just a novel that
> grew a sequel rather than the beginning of a pre-planned series.

I realized later, too, that the McKillip has a sequel, too, but it
stands alone just fine. And every list of best books needs a McKillip.

Reading this thread, it looks like there's a fair amount of agreement,
really. Not a very divisive decade, I guess.

(Except for Bujold. Bleah.)

Aaron

David Tate

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 11:28:13 PM6/7/06
to
Jack Tingle wrote:
> On 7 Jun 2006 17:37:50 -0700, "David Tate" <dt...@ida.org> wrote:
> >Andrew Wheeler wrote:
> >> David Tate wrote:
> >> > Roger Zelazny, A NIGHT IN THE LONESOME OCTOBER
> >> > Mary Doria Russell, THE SPARROW
> >> > Connie Willis, DOOMSDAY BOOK
> >>
> >> This is a very likely candidate.
> >
> >But not the Russell? Given my choice, I'd rather have THE SPARROW.
>
> HUH?!

It seemed a straightforward enough statement.

> Let's see Connie Willis is currently the world champeen for
> number of sf awards, completely dominating (crushing?) the 90's.

Certaintly true. What does that have to do with whether DOOMSDAY BOOK
is better than THE SPARROW?

> "Doomsday Book" was arguably her first big novel and a double winner
> (Hugo and Nebula).

Also true, but see above.

> It was also the keystone of the "Fire Watch/DB/TSNoTD" triplet.

And again -- all of this is true, but I don't see how it's relevant to
what I said, or in any way refutes it.

> MDR has written three sf books, one of them noteworthy.

That's four...

If this were some kind of "who is the most significant author of the
1990s" quiz, you'd be making telling points here. But it isn't, and
(as best I can tell) you aren't.

> I think the Willis wins hands down,

Wins what? If you're just trying to say that you thought DOOMSDAY BOOK
was a better book than THE SPARROW, you could have simply said so. I
disagree, but see below.

> although I really liked "Bellweather" better.

BELLWETHER, no 'a'. I haven't read that one yet.

> DGNED.

Indeed. So why all the talk of awards and keystones and such?

David Tate

James Nicoll

unread,
Jun 7, 2006, 11:40:52 PM6/7/06
to
In article <4487611F...@optonline.com>,

Andrew Wheeler <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:
>James Nicoll wrote:
>>
>> Sticking just to new authors [1] from the 1990s and to SF:
>>
>> JUMPER (Stephen Gould)
>>
>> VAST (Linda Nagata)
>
>Not _The Bohr Maker_?
>
>(This is probably a better novel, but, unfortunately, the club did both
>and _Bohr_ sold but _Vast_ didn't.)


No, I think I like VAST more, once the plot actually starts.


>>
>> VOYAGE (Stephen Baxter)
>
><Blinks twice. Does a slow double-take.>


Really, that's probably his best book. It made the contrast
with the next book, TITAN, that much more.
--
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll

Wayne Throop

unread,
Jun 8, 2006, 12:08:53 AM6/8/06
to
::: Make it an omnibus edition?

:: Three thousand-page books in one? We'd have to make it folio-sized,
:: on bible paper, and it would probably still be over a thousand pages.

: Or do it OED-style with a magnifying glass :-)

Eh. Release it on a CD. If you're going away from unaided-eye reading
anyways, going with little digital pits instead of little analog scratches
seems to make no nevermind.


Wayne Throop thr...@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw

Anthony Cerrato

unread,
Jun 8, 2006, 12:22:57 AM6/8/06
to

"Andrew Wheeler" <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote in message
news:44875C39...@optonline.com...
> "art...@yahoo.com" wrote:

> >
> > Andrew Wheeler wrote:
> > >
> > > So, what do you RASFWers think are the best books of
the 1990s?
> >
> > Last Call Tim Powers
>
> We did Powers in the '80s, so probably not.

>
> > The Diamond Age and Cryptonomicon* Neal Stephenson
>
> Stephenson should be on the final list, I hope -- the
question really is
> whether it should be _Snow Crash_ or _Diamond Age_.

[snip]

What it boils down to is this I think: _Snow Crash_ is
somewhat comedic and a good book; _Diamond Age_ is quite
serious and is a great book! I would choose DA as typical of
his best work.
...tonyC

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