Is crytoscopophilia morally wrong?

[Don Kuenz]

The changing of seasons here in the Northern Hemisphere, along with
the changing of time to daylight savings, force me into doing most of
my dog-walking while audio-book-listening during the night hours. A
time when neighborhoods pulsate with soft glows radiating from
Gilder's "American hearth."

Life After Television, Updated
http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~gaj1/tvgg.html

In 1994, four years after I wrote the first edition of Life
After Television, the cornucopian afterlife is indeed at
hand. With microchips and fiber optics eroding the logic
of centralized institutions, networks of personal computers
are indeed overthrowing IBM and CBS, NTT and EEC. But as
the great pyramids of the broadcast and industrial eras--the
familiar masters of the American immigration--break apart,
new fear and anxieties arise about the future. If the
center cannot hold, what rough beast, shuffling its slow
thighs, slouches toward Hollywood to be born again in
gigabytes--and gigadollars--on the information superhighway?

Will life after television mean the dissolution of the
American hearth into a pornucopia of 900-number videos,
full-color cold calls from sultry sisters at Lehman Brothers
and real-crime performances in multimedia by superstar
serial killers? Or will the new technologies uplift the
culture and empower the people, as Life After Television
predicted?

Many "American hearths" face a totally open window. Is it morally wrong
to peek in passing to see what's on?

At least one person argues that it's OK to be a crytoscopophiliac

because there's a word for it and because apparently
everyone else is one, too -- except, of course, for
[my husband]. He still thinks I'm crazy, but I think
he's about used to it by now.


The Yarn Harlot is All Wound Up
http://tinyurl.com/btgs97p

I've been reading Stephanie Pearl-McPhee's _All Wound Up_
which I got for Christmas from my wonderful mother-in-law
and I've been having a laugh and trying to read it slowly
so as to savor it and not use up all the humour in just a
few hours. One of my favorite chapters is crytoscopophilia
which is, of course, the act of looking in someone else's
window as you go by and then, to carry it futher as the
Yarn Harlot does, make inferences about the people who
live within those windows.

--
Don Kuenz

[Butch Malahide]

On Dec 7, 9:56 am, Don Kuenz <garb...@crcomp.net> wrote:
>
> At least one person argues that it's OK to be a crytoscopophiliac

I never heard of that. Are you sure you don't you mean
cryptoscopophiliac?

[Don Kuenz]

Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com> wrote:

Cryptoscopophiliac seemingly adds up.

crypto-
combining form representing Greek _krypt\xc3\xb3s_ hidden.

scopo-
Greek skop\xc3\xb3s aim, mark to shoot at; akin to skope\xc3\xaen to look at.

philiac
Greek phil\xc3\xada friendship, affinity; see -phile, -ia.

"Hidden view affinity"

Yet the Yarn Harlot and others most definitely spell it
crytoscopophilia.

http://www.google.com/search?q=crytoscopophilia

--
Don Kuenz

[Butch Malahide]

On Dec 7, 2:44 pm, Don Kuenz <garb...@crcomp.net> wrote:

Comments by "mollusque" in the third hit on your google search page

http://www.wordnik.com/words/crytoscopophilia

indicate that "crytoscopophilia" is (as I thought) a misspelling of
"cryptoscopophilia":

[BEGIN QUOTE]
mollusque Schmidt's book has arrived, and cryptoscopophilia proves, as
expected, to be the original spelling. Schmidt also proves to be the
coiner of the other words Espy selected (which were among the milder
ones). Feb 28, 2008

mollusque Found it: p. 304 of An Almanac of Words at Play, with the
expected definition "The desire to look through the windows of homes
that one passes by". (What is it about passing by?--see the definition
of bovilexia).

Espy attributes cryptoscopophilia along with
melcryptovestimentaphilia, dyscalligynia, ecdemolagnia, genuglyphics,
haptevoluptas, and iatronudia to Cyclopedic Lexicon of Sex, on the
authority of Darryl Francis. However, J. E. Schmidt's Cyclopedic
Lexicon of Sex: Exotic Practices, Expressions, Variations of the
Libido (1967) has been scanned by Google Books, and none of these
terms seem to occur there, so perhaps Espy (or Francis) invented them.

I've just ordered Schmidt's book on Abebooks, so will report further
when it arrives. Feb 24, 2008
[END QUOTE]

[Don Kuenz]

Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com> wrote:

> Comments by "mollusque" in the third hit on your google search page
>
> http://www.wordnik.com/words/crytoscopophilia
>
> indicate that "crytoscopophilia" is (as I thought) a misspelling of
> "cryptoscopophilia":
>
> [BEGIN QUOTE]
> mollusque Schmidt's book has arrived, and cryptoscopophilia proves, as
> expected, to be the original spelling.

I tend to agree, but the plot thickens. William McGuire "Bill" Bryson,
OBE, Chancellor of Durham University, spells it crytoscopophilia in his
book _The Mother Tongue - English And How It Got That Way_. So, we end
up with Epsy's American spelling of cryptoscopophilia versus Bryson's
British spelling of crytoscopophilia.

ROTFLMAO.

--
Don Kuenz

[Brian M. Scott]

On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 16:13:38 -0600, Don Kuenz
<gar...@crcomp.net> wrote in <news:2012...@crcomp.net> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

[...]

> I tend to agree, but the plot thickens. William McGuire
> "Bill" Bryson, OBE, Chancellor of Durham University,
> spells it crytoscopophilia in his book _The Mother Tongue
> - English And How It Got That Way_.

Which means very little: that book is a monument of
incompetence. You can see my 2001 review at Amazon here:

<http://www.amazon.com/review/R1KI5CN6F9TJ97/ref=cm_cr_dp_qtlb_cmt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=0380715430>

See also the reviews by Whimemsz and Christopher Culver
(whom I know to be a linguist).

[...]

Brian

[Robert Carnegie]

On Friday, 7 December 2012 21:09:39 UTC, Butch Malahide wrote:
> On Dec 7, 2:44 pm, Don Kuenz <garb...@crcomp.net> wrote:
> >
> > Cryptoscopophiliac seemingly adds up.
> >
> >   crypto-
> >     combining form representing Greek _krypt\xc3\xb3s_ hidden.
> >
> >   scopo-
> >     Greek skop\xc3\xb3s aim, mark to shoot at; akin to skope\xc3\xaen to look at.
> >
> >   philiac
> >     Greek phil\xc3\xada friendship, affinity; see -phile, -ia.
> >
> > "Hidden view affinity"
> >
> > Yet the Yarn Harlot and others most definitely spell it
> > crytoscopophilia.
> >
> > http://www.google.com/search?q=crytoscopophilia
>
> Comments by "mollusque" in the third hit on your google search page
>
> http://www.wordnik.com/words/crytoscopophilia
>
> indicate that "crytoscopophilia" is (as I thought) a misspelling of
> "cryptoscopophilia":

And "All roads lead back to [Bill] Bryson." Also blamed here,
<http://www.powells.com/blog/contests/and-the-oed-winner-is-by-dave/>

But we were invited to discuss whether it's an immoral act.

I think it depends on how much you're doing it, and whether the blinds
are drawn.

We may also be meant to consider looking in house windows /at televisions/,
if I correctly interpret "The American Hearth".

Um... that's /probably/ okay. If it's something on tele vision.

[Robert Bannister]

Every time I find something true or correct in one of Bill Bryson's
books I am amazed. Of course, it doesn't happen very often.
--
Robert Bannister

[Quadibloc]

On Dec 7, 2:09 pm, Butch Malahide <fred.gal...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Comments by "mollusque" in the third hit on your google search page
>
> http://www.wordnik.com/words/crytoscopophilia
>
> indicate that "crytoscopophilia" is (as I thought) a misspelling of
> "cryptoscopophilia":

When I saw the title of this thread, I read the word as
"cytoscopophilia", and I was wondering what on Earth it could possibly
be. (crypto- secret, hidden; so cryptoscopophilia would be a love of
secretly watching - cyto - cell; so cytoscopophilia would be a love of
looking at cells (presumably under the microscope, stained) )

John Savard

[Quadibloc]

On Dec 8, 4:02 pm, Quadibloc <jsav...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

> When I saw the title of this thread, I read the word as
> "cytoscopophilia", and I was wondering what on Earth it could possibly
> be. (crypto- secret, hidden; so cryptoscopophilia would be a love of
> secretly watching - cyto - cell; so cytoscopophilia would be a love of
> looking at cells (presumably under the microscope, stained) )

And then there's cryoscopophilia, what one would have to want to look
out of the window a lot here, where it's 5 below (converted to
Fahrenheit) at the moment - 20 below Celsius.

Ah. Cryto is "a powerful demon that grants youth, beauty, and health".

John Savard

[Don Kuenz]

Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> On Friday, 7 December 2012 21:09:39 UTC, Butch Malahide wrote:

>> On Dec 7, 2:44?pm, Don Kuenz <garb...@crcomp.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > Cryptoscopophiliac seemingly adds up.
>> >

>> > ? crypto-
>> > ? ? combining form representing Greek _krypt\xc3\xb3s_ hidden.
>> >
>> > ? scopo-
>> > ? ? Greek skop\xc3\xb3s aim, mark to shoot at; akin to skope\xc3\xaen to look at.
>> >
>> > ? philiac
>> > ? ? Greek phil\xc3\xada friendship, affinity; see -phile, -ia.

>> >
>> > "Hidden view affinity"
>> >
>> > Yet the Yarn Harlot and others most definitely spell it
>> > crytoscopophilia.
>> >
>> > http://www.google.com/search?q=crytoscopophilia
>>
>> Comments by "mollusque" in the third hit on your google search page
>>
>> http://www.wordnik.com/words/crytoscopophilia
>>
>> indicate that "crytoscopophilia" is (as I thought) a misspelling of
>> "cryptoscopophilia":
>
> And "All roads lead back to [Bill] Bryson." Also blamed here,
> <http://www.powells.com/blog/contests/and-the-oed-winner-is-by-dave/>

A Bryson spell it seems, offered up by fiat sans any trace of
etymological precedent. ROFL.

> But we were invited to discuss whether it's an immoral act.

Yes, and thank you for remembering to answer my original question.

> I think it depends on how much you're doing it, and whether the blinds
> are drawn.
>
> We may also be meant to consider looking in house windows /at televisions/,
> if I correctly interpret "The American Hearth".

The imagery of "The American Hearth" appeals to me. The Gilder excerpt
is offered up to people unfamiliar with the phrase. The American Hearth
is the actually TV and more. It's also the whole aura created by
bullskit wafting through the air from the TV.

Before central heating, radio, and TV, American fireplaces arguably set
the stage for the telling of campfire stories. Along the lines of a
character named Frisby telling tall tales to a group sitting around
a potbelly stove in a TZ episode called "Hocus-Pocus and Frisby."

> Um... that's /probably/ okay. If it's something on tele?vision.

Just knowing that a TV is ON is enough to satisfy curiosity as to the
number of people topping off their cerebral cortices with bullskit at a
given moment.

--
Don Kuenz

[Don Kuenz]

Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

"Demon + view + affinity?" Now, that may actually fit my needs, given
my rather low opinion of most televised shows.

--
Don Kuenz

[Robert Carnegie]

On Friday, 7 December 2012 22:13:38 UTC, Don Kuenz wrote:
> I tend to agree, but the plot thickens. William McGuire "Bill" Bryson,
> OBE, Chancellor of Durham University, spells it crytoscopophilia in his
> book _The Mother Tongue - English And How It Got That Way_. So, we end
> up with Epsy's American spelling of cryptoscopophilia versus Bryson's
> British spelling of crytoscopophilia.
>
> ROTFLMAO.

Be fair. He isn't actually British.

And on the face of it, it's just a typo. One that may not even be
his own. And may have been, should have been corrected... Amazon search
seems only to work for words in /their/ dictionary, so I can say
that the passage seems to be on page 60 of the UK edition, but I can't see
the word itself - can't get closer than "windows" and "homes". Maybe
if you have an account you can turn it up?

[Joe Bernstein]

On Sunday, December 9, 2012 8:36:22 AM UTC-8, Don Kuenz wrote:

> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

> > Ah. Cryto is "a powerful demon that grants youth, beauty, and
> > health".

> "Demon + view + affinity?" Now, that may actually fit my needs,
> given my rather low opinion of most televised shows.

Um. By an extremely obvious metonymy, "crytoscopophilia" becomes,
in English, "love of ogling". My experience has been that the
question, "Is [enjoying ogling] morally wrong?" is answered "YES!!!"
by a majority of women, "Not really" by a significant number of men,
and "Hey, how do you like the weather?" by everyone else.

ObSF, of course, Connie Willis: Compare and contrast relations
between the sexes in "All My Darling Daughters" and <Passage>, say.

Sigh, OK: I decided to try to get serious. "Cryto" as a demon
makes sense, but we don't have "cryto" in this word, we have
"cryto-". Which means we need to know the Greek meaning of the
word, or at least of kappa-rho-upsilon-tau-something. (Dunno
whether omega or omicron.) Obviously, I don't know Greek, but
I figured there were some easy dodges.

Oops. Google knows essentially no references to crytozoa (it
much prefers cryptozoa, which are real) or crytophilia. It does
know thousands of references to crytology. The vast majority,
well over 90% and at all levels of seriousness from random
Facebook pages and e-mails to scientific papers and government
documents, are misspellings of cryptology. However, there are
some exceptions. I got all excited about a book on "The
Taxonomy and Crytology of the Genus Hasseanthus" until I found
a report on the morphology and crytology of some sorghum; turns
out the latter, and probably the former, are misspellings of
cytology.

The following, however, lack enough context for such easy
refutations, and may represent a real word crytology:
- A vet in Irving, Texas offers "Ear Crytology", which doesn't
seem plausible under either misspelling.
- A set of flashcards for some subject begins "aspiration
biopsy crytology". Again, dubious for cytology and
preposterous for cryptology.

Now, if any of us knew Greek, this would be easy. I'm tempted
to go consult humanities.classics, but will refrain as yet.

Joe Bernstein

--
Joe Bernstein, writer j...@sfbooks.com

[Butch Malahide]

On Dec 9, 6:12 pm, Joe Bernstein <j...@sfbooks.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, December 9, 2012 8:36:22 AM UTC-8, Don Kuenz wrote:

Why is "biopsy cytology" so dubious? Isn't "cytologist" what you call
the specialist who examines the tissue samples obtained from a biopsy?

[Howard Brazee]

On Sun, 9 Dec 2012 16:12:37 -0800 (PST), Joe Bernstein
<j...@sfbooks.com> wrote:

>ObSF, of course, Connie Willis: Compare and contrast relations
>between the sexes in "All My Darling Daughters" and <Passage>, say.

Didn't she have a story that reads like a paper like that?


Ahh, found it: "The Soul Selects Her Own Society: Invasion and
Repulsion: A Chronological Reinterpretation of Two of Emily
Dickinson's Poems: A Wellsian Perspective".

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

[Don Kuenz]

Joe Bernstein <j...@sfbooks.com> wrote:

> Now, if any of us knew Greek, this would be easy.

If crytos is an alternative spelling of critos than crytoscopophilia
is indeed the correct spelling.

critos. Greek, To judge, ex. critique, critical, critic

Remember that the Yarn Harlot MAKES INFERENCES (ie judges) the people

who live within those windows.

The Yarn Harlot is All Wound Up
http://tinyurl.com/btgs97p

One of my favorite chapters is crytoscopophilia
which is, of course, the act of looking in someone else's

window as you go by and then, to carry it further as the
Yarn Harlot does, MAKE INFERENCES about the people who
live within those windows.

So in the end, crytoscopophilia "an affinity for scoping out people to
judge" is indeed morally wrong.

--
Don Kuenz

[Brian M. Scott]

On Sun, 09 Dec 2012 19:24:41 -0600, Don Kuenz

<gar...@crcomp.net> wrote in <news:2012...@crcomp.net> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

> Joe Bernstein <j...@sfbooks.com> wrote:

>> Now, if any of us knew Greek, this would be easy.

> If crytos is an alternative spelling of critos than crytoscopophilia
> is indeed the correct spelling.

> critos. Greek, To judge, ex. critique, critical, critic

No, the verb is <κρινω> (<krinō>) 'to separate; to choose;
to decide (e.g., a dispute); to judge; to question, examine,
bring to trial'. From it are derived <κριτικός>
(<kritikós>) 'able to discern and decide, critical' and
<κριτής> (<kritēs>) 'a discerner, judge, arbiter'.

And Greek <ι> iota is not in the least interchangeable with
<υ> upsilon, the letter represented in transliteration by
<y>.

[...]

Brian

[David Goldfarb]

In article <d37b183d-e414-4308...@googlegroups.com>,

Joe Bernstein <j...@sfbooks.com> wrote:
>Which means we need to know the Greek meaning of the
>word, or at least of kappa-rho-upsilon-tau-something. (Dunno
>whether omega or omicron.)

Liddell, Scott, and Jones (the definitive dictionary of Ancient Greek)
lists only one word that starts with those letters, and that one
is nothing more than a variant of one which starts with a gamma
instead of a kappa.

I *have* studied Ancient Greek (I just translated some Herodotus
earlier this evening) and I find it blindingly obvious that
"cryto-" is a typo and "crypto-" is correct.

--
David Goldfarb |"Given enough time and the right audience,
goldf...@gmail.com | the darkest of secrets scum over into
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | mere curiosities."
| -- Neil Gaiman, _Sandman_ #53

[Brian M. Scott]

On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 06:27:37 GMT, David Goldfarb
<gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu> wrote in
<news:MEsxy...@kithrup.com> in rec.arts.sf.written:

> In article <d37b183d-e414-4308...@googlegroups.com>,
> Joe Bernstein <j...@sfbooks.com> wrote:

>>Which means we need to know the Greek meaning of the
>>word, or at least of kappa-rho-upsilon-tau-something. (Dunno
>>whether omega or omicron.)

> Liddell, Scott, and Jones (the definitive dictionary of Ancient Greek)
> lists only one word that starts with those letters, and that one
> is nothing more than a variant of one which starts with a gamma
> instead of a kappa.

> I *have* studied Ancient Greek (I just translated some Herodotus
> earlier this evening) and I find it blindingly obvious that
> "cryto-" is a typo and "crypto-" is correct.

Hear, hear!

Brian

[Don Kuenz]

I just got off the phone with my associate, a Greek who's fluent in
everyday Greek. She contacted her brother, who's fluent in "profound"
Greek, which she likens to Chaucer. She confirms what you guys said.

rasfw: 1
google: 0

My own knowledge of Greek is limited to a translated version of
Euclid's _Elements_, with Greek on one page and English on the facing
page. Despite my intention to learn Greek, a lack of time keeps it
from happening. As Shakespeare said, "In brief, sir, study what you
most affect." And for me it's not Greek, or Greek to me, or something.
:)

--
Don Kuenz

[Butch Malahide]

On Dec 10, 11:53 am, Don Kuenz <garb...@crcomp.net> wrote:

> Brian M. Scott <b.sc...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 06:27:37 GMT, David Goldfarb

> > <goldf...@ocf.berkeley.edu> wrote in

> > <news:MEsxy...@kithrup.com> in rec.arts.sf.written:
>
> >> In article <d37b183d-e414-4308...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> Joe Bernstein  <j...@sfbooks.com> wrote:
>
> >>>Which means we need to know the Greek meaning of the
> >>>word, or at least of kappa-rho-upsilon-tau-something.  (Dunno
> >>>whether omega or omicron.)
>
> >> Liddell, Scott, and Jones (the definitive dictionary of Ancient Greek)
> >> lists only one word that starts with those letters, and that one
> >> is nothing more than a variant of one which starts with a gamma
> >> instead of a kappa.
>
> >> I *have* studied Ancient Greek (I just translated some Herodotus
> >> earlier this evening) and I find it blindingly obvious that
> >> "cryto-" is a typo and "crypto-" is correct.
>
> > Hear, hear!
>
> I just got off the phone with my associate, a Greek who's fluent in
> everyday Greek. She contacted her brother, who's fluent in "profound"
> Greek, which she likens to Chaucer. She confirms what you guys said.
>
> rasfw:  1
> google: 0

But it doesn't really matter what the experts on Classical Greek say,
does it? Because it's very likely that the people who coined and use
the word don't know any more Greek than we do; and if *they* call it
crytoscopophilia, then crytoscopophilia it is. Right, Brian?

[Brian M. Scott]

On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 12:05:41 -0800 (PST), Butch Malahide
<fred....@gmail.com> wrote in
<news:22d71f5a-5419-4f98...@u19g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written:

[...]

> But it doesn't really matter what the experts on Classical
> Greek say, does it? Because it's very likely that the
> people who coined and use the word don't know any more
> Greek than we do; and if *they* call it crytoscopophilia,
> then crytoscopophilia it is. Right, Brian?

I've not been following this closely enough to know whether
the premise is correct. If the people who use it
consistently use <cryto->, and if the word actually comes
into general use in that form, then yes, that's what it will
be. At this point, however, I think that it remains a bit
of a joke coinage, and were I to use the word, I'd certainly
say and write the meaningful <crypto->, not the meaningless
<cryto->.

Brian

[Kip Williams]

David Goldfarb wrote, On 12/10/12 1:27 AM:

> In article <d37b183d-e414-4308...@googlegroups.com>,
> Joe Bernstein <j...@sfbooks.com> wrote:
>> Which means we need to know the Greek meaning of the
>> word, or at least of kappa-rho-upsilon-tau-something. (Dunno
>> whether omega or omicron.)
>
> Liddell, Scott, and Jones (the definitive dictionary of Ancient Greek)
> lists only one word that starts with those letters, and that one
> is nothing more than a variant of one which starts with a gamma
> instead of a kappa.
>
> I *have* studied Ancient Greek (I just translated some Herodotus
> earlier this evening) and I find it blindingly obvious that
> "cryto-" is a typo and "crypto-" is correct.

I like it when my first, uninformed reaction turns out to have been
right. Not that I'd have bet on it (or even mentioned it).


Kip W
rasfw

[Lynn McGuire]

If you walk after dusk in my neighborhood wearing
headphones and not paying attention, you will get
run over by a soccer mom in a SUV running to the
store to get something for her kids.

I walk 2.5 miles five nights a week. I really
have to watch the streets when I cross them.
Sometimes they forget to put on their headlights
because they have been at the distilled grape or
potato already.

And thats the story out here in the burbs.

Lynn

[Tim.B...@redbridge.gov.uk]

On Monday, 10 December 2012 06:27:37 UTC, David Goldfarb wrote:
> In article <d37b183d-e414-4308...@googlegroups.com>,
>
> Joe Bernstein <j...@sfbooks.com> wrote:
>
> >Which means we need to know the Greek meaning of the
>
> >word, or at least of kappa-rho-upsilon-tau-something. (Dunno
>
> >whether omega or omicron.)
>
>
>
> Liddell, Scott, and Jones (the definitive dictionary of Ancient Greek)
>
> lists only one word that starts with those letters, and that one
>
> is nothing more than a variant of one which starts with a gamma
>
> instead of a kappa.
>
>
>
> I *have* studied Ancient Greek (I just translated some Herodotus
>
> earlier this evening) and I find it blindingly obvious that
>
> "cryto-" is a typo and "crypto-" is correct.

I have not studied ancient Greek since 1978, and I (mis)read 'cryto-' as 'crypto-' from the get-go in this thread until it was drawn to my attention.

[10313...@compuserve.com]

On Friday, December 7, 2012 8:41:12 PM UTC-5, Robert Bannister wrote:
>Every time I find something true or correct in one of Bill Bryson's books I am amazed. Of course, it doesn't happen very often. -- Robert Bannister

The information may be apocryphal, but it is always entertainingly presented.

Jim Deutch (JimboCat)
--
Original thought
is a straightforward process.
It's easy enough
when you know what to do.
You simply combine
in appropriate doses
the blatantly false
and the patently true.