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Rights? You have no right to your eBooks.

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Lynn McGuire

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Oct 24, 2012, 3:21:01 PM10/24/12
to
Rights? You have no right to your eBooks.
http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/simon-says/2012/10/rights-you-have-no-right-to-your-ebooks/index.htm

Get your stinking hands off my books !

I will continue buying dead trees as long
as I can.

Lynn

David Johnston

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Oct 24, 2012, 3:48:19 PM10/24/12
to
One moral of the story is that if you actually go so far as to pay money for a Kindle book, be sure to actually download it to your computer so you actually have it.

lal_truckee

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Oct 24, 2012, 5:35:56 PM10/24/12
to
On 10/24/12 12:48 PM, David Johnston wrote:
> One moral of the story is that if you actually go so far as to pay money for a Kindle book, be sure to actually download it to your computer so you actually have it.
>
and convert it to some standard format before the shake-out and death of
all these proprietary formats.

Dorothy J Heydt

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Oct 24, 2012, 6:14:34 PM10/24/12
to
My sentiments exactly ... not to mention that I couldn't buy an
ebook reader and, if I could, could probably not read it. :)

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

Dorothy J Heydt

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Oct 24, 2012, 6:15:09 PM10/24/12
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In article <k69mvs$re7$1...@dont-email.me>,
RTF?

Straight ASCII?

Lynn McGuire

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Oct 24, 2012, 7:35:52 PM10/24/12
to
On 10/24/2012 5:15 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <k69mvs$re7$1...@dont-email.me>,
> lal_truckee <lal_t...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 10/24/12 12:48 PM, David Johnston wrote:
>>> One moral of the story is that if you actually go so far as to pay
>> money for a Kindle book, be sure to actually download it to your
>> computer so you actually have it.
>>>
>> and convert it to some standard format before the shake-out and death of
>> all these proprietary formats.
>
> RTF?
>
> Straight ASCII?

HTML.

Lynn



Lynn McGuire

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Oct 24, 2012, 7:39:48 PM10/24/12
to
On 10/24/2012 5:14 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <k69f34$7ru$1...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
>> Rights? You have no right to your eBooks.
>>
>> http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/simon-says/2012/10/rights-you-have-no-right-to-your-ebooks/index.htm
>>
>> Get your stinking hands off my books !
>>
>> I will continue buying dead trees as long
>> as I can.
>
> My sentiments exactly ... not to mention that I couldn't buy an
> ebook reader and, if I could, could probably not read it. :)

You and me, Dorothy.

I keep on hoping that B&N is going to move to a
POD system in their stores (and Amazon also for
their ebooks only) but it looks like that ship
has sailed.

Lynn

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy

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Oct 24, 2012, 7:45:10 PM10/24/12
to
Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote in
news:k69u15$7us$1...@dont-email.me:
EPUB isn't going anywhere. Of course, EPUB is HTML, mostly.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy

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Oct 24, 2012, 7:46:46 PM10/24/12
to
Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote in
news:k69u8h$7us$2...@dont-email.me:
You're both outliers, and will be part of an ever shrinking segment
of the market. It will suck to be you, not too many years in the
future.

Dorothy J Heydt

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Oct 24, 2012, 8:14:53 PM10/24/12
to
In article <XnsA0F6AAB107F...@69.16.186.7>,
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote in
>news:k69u8h$7us$2...@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 10/24/2012 5:14 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> In article <k69f34$7ru$1...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire
>>> <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
>>>> Rights? You have no right to your eBooks.
>>>>
>>>> http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/simon-says/2012/10/rights-you-
>>>> have-no-right-to-your-ebooks/index.htm
>>>>
>>>> Get your stinking hands off my books !
>>>>
>>>> I will continue buying dead trees as long
>>>> as I can.
>>>
>>> My sentiments exactly ... not to mention that I couldn't buy an
>>> ebook reader and, if I could, could probably not read it. :)
>>
>> You and me, Dorothy.
>>
>> I keep on hoping that B&N is going to move to a
>> POD system in their stores (and Amazon also for
>> their ebooks only) but it looks like that ship
>> has sailed.
>>
>You're both outliers, and will be part of an ever shrinking segment
>of the market. It will suck to be you, not too many years in the
>future.

Unless it's a very few years into the future, I won't be around
to be bothered.

Wayne Throop

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Oct 24, 2012, 8:23:07 PM10/24/12
to
: djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
: I couldn't buy an ebook reader and,
: if I could, could probably not read it. :)

Do you mean you couldn't bring yourself to do such a horrible act, or
that something would prevent you from viewing the text on an eink display?

(Yes, I saw the smiley, but I'm still curious...)

Dimensional Traveler

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Oct 24, 2012, 10:00:24 PM10/24/12
to
Since it _is_ Dorothy we're talking about here, she probably couldn't
turn the e-reader on. :P

--
The 'Enterprise' crew in the 2009 Star Trek are adrenaline addicted,
hyper-active teenagers with ADD whose Ritalin got replaced with
methamphetamine, displaying a level of discipline that a Somali pirate
wouldn't tolerate.

Raymond Daley

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Oct 24, 2012, 10:53:25 PM10/24/12
to

"Lynn McGuire" <l...@winsim.com> wrote in message
news:k69f34$7ru$1...@dont-email.me...
Says she bought a used Kindle. USED.

As for all this "transferring accounts" stuff? Highly questionable because
Amazon are always going to check the Kindle you are transferring over to.

As for the USED Kindle? It broke. So Amazon didn't have ANY real legal
requirement to replace it.
But did anyway. Incredibly nice of them, they could have just told her to
go and screw herself as she had no real rights with the used one.
And if it was hotlisted (which it sounds like it was) and probably listed as
stolen or resold then Amazon did exactly what their company policy dictates
and you agree to that when you buy a Kindle.

As someone who originally bought a Kindle from Amazon she should have been
more than aware of those rules.

Simple way around this? Never buy a used Kindle.
The books on her original Kindle? Legally hers, especially if she paid
actual money for them.
Amazon can't legally stop her taking those off her account.
If they claim they can, I suggest she sues them for as much money as she
can.

And this is why when you buy a book off Amazon you ALWAYS back it up onto a
hard drive somewhere.
NEVER choose "Send to my Kindle".


Kip Williams

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Oct 25, 2012, 12:26:33 AM10/25/12
to
Lynn McGuire wrote, On 10/24/12 7:39 PM:

> I keep on hoping that B&N is going to move to a
> POD system in their stores (and Amazon also for
> their ebooks only) but it looks like that ship
> has sailed.

Interestingly, a writers' center in town is looking at the potential in
getting their own POD capability — the hardware. If they did, wouldn't
it help them pay it off if people paid for the privilege of using it now
and then?


Kip W
rasfw

Dorothy J Heydt

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Oct 25, 2012, 1:42:05 AM10/25/12
to
In article <13511...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>: djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>: I couldn't buy an ebook reader and,
>: if I could, could probably not read it. :)
>
>Do you mean you couldn't bring yourself to do such a horrible act,

I mean I haven't got the money to buy one. I get about $485 SSI
per month, and that goes for Blue Shield, Blue Cross, and being
in their doughnut hole till the end of this year, so that I have
a larger copay (and some of my meds I have to pay full price). I
paid $79 and change for a months supply of Januvia last week.

>or
>that something would prevent you from viewing the text on an eink display?

I mean that my eyes are seventy years old. All the ebook readers
I have seen -- and, look you, they were all several years ago --
I couldn't read worth beans. Maybe there are better ones out
now, but I have not seen them.
>
>(Yes, I saw the smiley, but I'm still curious...)

Well, d'y'know, at this point I'm not sure why I put that smiley
in. I would be below the poverty level except that I have a
husband who gets a bit more SSI and owns a house that pays him
about $1400/month except currently, when we're getting nothing
because the house needed serious repairs. If we weren't living
with our daughter and son-in-law we'd be on the streets. So it
isn't particularly funny.

Dorothy J Heydt

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Oct 25, 2012, 1:42:46 AM10/25/12
to
In article <50889d3f$0$71169$742e...@news.sonic.net>,
Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>On 10/24/2012 5:23 PM, Wayne Throop wrote:
>> : djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>> : I couldn't buy an ebook reader and,
>> : if I could, could probably not read it. :)
>>
>> Do you mean you couldn't bring yourself to do such a horrible act, or
>> that something would prevent you from viewing the text on an eink display?
>>
>> (Yes, I saw the smiley, but I'm still curious...)
>>
>Since it _is_ Dorothy we're talking about here, she probably couldn't
>turn the e-reader on. :P

Possibly I could. But could I read the text with my crummy
vision? I'm betting not. See other post.

Lawrence Watt-Evans

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Oct 25, 2012, 2:01:14 AM10/25/12
to
On 2012-10-25 01:42:46 -0400, Dorothy J Heydt said:

> In article <50889d3f$0$71169$742e...@news.sonic.net>,
> Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>> On 10/24/2012 5:23 PM, Wayne Throop wrote:
>>> : djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>> : I couldn't buy an ebook reader and,
>>> : if I could, could probably not read it. :)
>>>
>>> Do you mean you couldn't bring yourself to do such a horrible act, or
>>> that something would prevent you from viewing the text on an eink display?
>>>
>>> (Yes, I saw the smiley, but I'm still curious...)
>>>
>> Since it _is_ Dorothy we're talking about here, she probably couldn't
>> turn the e-reader on. :P
>
> Possibly I could. But could I read the text with my crummy
> vision? I'm betting not. See other post.

We've been through this before. All modern e-readers let you enlarge
the font to pretty much any size you like; if you can read a computer
screen, you can read an e-reader.




--
Now available on Amazon or B&N: One-Eyed Jack.
Greg Kraft could see ghosts. That didn't mean he could stop them...

Howard Brazee

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Oct 25, 2012, 10:04:17 AM10/25/12
to
On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 05:42:46 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>>Since it _is_ Dorothy we're talking about here, she probably couldn't
>>turn the e-reader on. :P
>
>Possibly I could. But could I read the text with my crummy
>vision? I'm betting not. See other post.

IMHO, the best audience for e-books is people with crummy vision.

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

Richard R. Hershberger

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Oct 25, 2012, 10:22:26 AM10/25/12
to
On Oct 24, 7:46 pm, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
<tausti...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote innews:k69u8h$7us$2...@dont-email.me:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 10/24/2012 5:14 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> In article <k69f34$7r...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire
> >> <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
> >>> Rights? You have no right to your eBooks.
>
> >>>http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/simon-says/2012/10/rights-you-
> >>> have-no-right-to-your-ebooks/index.htm
>
> >>> Get your stinking hands off my books !
>
> >>> I will continue buying dead trees as long
> >>> as I can.
>
> >> My sentiments exactly ... not to mention that I couldn't buy an
> >> ebook reader and, if I could, could probably not read it.  :)
>
> > You and me, Dorothy.
>
> > I keep on hoping that B&N is going to move to a
> > POD system in their stores (and Amazon also for
> > their ebooks only) but it looks like that ship
> > has sailed.
>
> You're both outliers, and will be part of an ever shrinking segment
> of the market. It will suck to be you, not too many years in the
> future.

My prediction is that paper books will continue indefinitely as a
niche market. Not like LPs are today, where some albums are released
on LP in some combination of niche marketing and gimmick, but most are
not. Rather, as print on demand books. This technology already
exists. I have several old and obscure books I bought this way, for
roughly the cost of a standard book, and I am by and large perfectly
happy with the product. Soon enough, new and non-obscure books will
be nearly entirely purchased in ebook format. But so long as there is
a market for paper books, it will be easy enough to run them through
print on demand as well. It won't be available in retail stores like
Lynn had hoped, but that is what Amazon is for. The underlying
principle here is that new formats rarely actually kill off old
formats, the continued survival of radio and movies despite the
existence of television being the usual example.

Richard R. Hershberger

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy

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Oct 25, 2012, 12:00:25 PM10/25/12
to
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
news:MCFA0...@kithrup.com:
The market's shifting faster tha nI ever expected it to.

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy

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Oct 25, 2012, 12:02:54 PM10/25/12
to
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
news:MCFp6...@kithrup.com:

> I mean that my eyes are seventy years old. All the ebook
> readers I have seen -- and, look you, they were all several
> years ago -- I couldn't read worth beans. Maybe there are
> better ones out now, but I have not seen them.

One cannot help but wonder how you manage to post to usenet, using a
computer with a screen that is probably inferior in quality (and
certainly no better).

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy

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Oct 25, 2012, 12:07:07 PM10/25/12
to
"Richard R. Hershberger" <rrh...@acme.com> wrote in
news:ae449dc7-c71d-4e76...@x21g2000vbg.googlegroups.
com:
Radio survived by changing to something completely different. You
don't hear too many fictional drama programs on the radio these
days. Movies survive becasue television really is a different
medium, and a different art form.

The only advantage POD paper books have is that once the publishers
get their heads out of their asses, it will be zero extra work to
make POD available, because it can use the same data files as the
ebooks.

Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)

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Oct 25, 2012, 12:19:17 PM10/25/12
to
You started selling ebooks before anyone really took the possibility
seriously, so you were on the very bottom of the ground floor. Too bad
you couldn't patent something that would let you sue Amazon or something.

--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com

Wayne Throop

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Oct 25, 2012, 12:31:58 PM10/25/12
to
::: I couldn't buy an ebook reader and,
::: if I could, could probably not read it. :)

:: Do you mean you couldn't bring yourself to do such a horrible act,

: djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
: I mean I haven't got the money to buy one.

Ah. I meant only the "could not read it" part.
Not being able to afford it seems entirely understandable.

: I mean that my eyes are seventy years old. All the ebook readers I
: have seen -- and, look you, they were all several years ago -- I
: couldn't read worth beans. Maybe there are better ones out now, but I
: have not seen them.

Then I suspect you'd be surprised. Eg, kindle now uses third or fourth
generation e-ink displays that are very *very* readable. Onaccounta once
I saw one (somebody with a kindle showed it to me), *I* was surprised.

"No sir. *You* are amazed. *I* am surprised."
--- punch line, old joke, author unknown to me

Kurt Busiek

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Oct 25, 2012, 1:06:31 PM10/25/12
to
On 2012-10-25 06:01:14 +0000, Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> said:

> On 2012-10-25 01:42:46 -0400, Dorothy J Heydt said:
>
>> In article <50889d3f$0$71169$742e...@news.sonic.net>,
>> Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>>> On 10/24/2012 5:23 PM, Wayne Throop wrote:
>>>> : djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>>> : I couldn't buy an ebook reader and,
>>>> : if I could, could probably not read it. :)
>>>>
>>>> Do you mean you couldn't bring yourself to do such a horrible act, or
>>>> that something would prevent you from viewing the text on an eink display?
>>>>
>>>> (Yes, I saw the smiley, but I'm still curious...)
>>>>
>>> Since it _is_ Dorothy we're talking about here, she probably couldn't
>>> turn the e-reader on. :P
>>
>> Possibly I could. But could I read the text with my crummy
>> vision? I'm betting not. See other post.
>
> We've been through this before.

And going through it again won't help.

> All modern e-readers let you enlarge the font to pretty much any size
> you like; if you can read a computer screen, you can read an e-reader.

Next time Dorothy talks about e-readers, it will be as if no one ever
pointed this out.

kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!

Lynn McGuire

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Oct 25, 2012, 1:10:56 PM10/25/12
to
On 10/24/2012 6:45 PM, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
> Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote in
> news:k69u15$7us$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 10/24/2012 5:15 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> In article <k69mvs$re7$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> lal_truckee <lal_t...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On 10/24/12 12:48 PM, David Johnston wrote:
>>>>> One moral of the story is that if you actually go so far as
>>>>> to pay
>>>> money for a Kindle book, be sure to actually download it to
>>>> your computer so you actually have it.
>>>>>
>>>> and convert it to some standard format before the shake-out
>>>> and death of all these proprietary formats.
>>>
>>> RTF?
>>>
>>> Straight ASCII?
>>
>> HTML.
>>
> EPUB isn't going anywhere. Of course, EPUB is HTML, mostly.

I should have said HTML5. That allows embedded
video.

Lynn


Lynn McGuire

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Oct 25, 2012, 1:11:41 PM10/25/12
to
On 10/24/2012 6:46 PM, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
> Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote in
> news:k69u8h$7us$2...@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 10/24/2012 5:14 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> In article <k69f34$7ru$1...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire
>>> <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
>>>> Rights? You have no right to your eBooks.
>>>>
>>>> http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/simon-says/2012/10/rights-you-
>>>> have-no-right-to-your-ebooks/index.htm
>>>>
>>>> Get your stinking hands off my books !
>>>>
>>>> I will continue buying dead trees as long
>>>> as I can.
>>>
>>> My sentiments exactly ... not to mention that I couldn't buy an
>>> ebook reader and, if I could, could probably not read it. :)
>>
>> You and me, Dorothy.
>>
>> I keep on hoping that B&N is going to move to a
>> POD system in their stores (and Amazon also for
>> their ebooks only) but it looks like that ship
>> has sailed.
>>
> You're both outliers, and will be part of an ever shrinking segment
> of the market. It will suck to be you, not too many years in the
> future.

I think that we are there already. I see many
books that are ebook only now.

Lynn


Randy L AT DOT

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Oct 25, 2012, 1:23:40 PM10/25/12
to
Or, you could do what I do. Find some nice DRM removal software, remove the
DRM from your eBook(s), then archive them on a CD or DVD. I use Sigil to
edit my eBooks, and Calibre to archive them. Both freeware and both
excellant programs.

Randy L.
--
Never judge a book by its movie

"Lynn McGuire" <l...@winsim.com> wrote in message
news:k69f34$7ru$1...@dont-email.me...
> Rights? You have no right to your eBooks.
>
> http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/simon-says/2012/10/rights-you-have-no-right-to-your-ebooks/index.htm
>
> Get your stinking hands off my books !
>
> I will continue buying dead trees as long
> as I can.
>
> Lynn

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy

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Oct 25, 2012, 1:25:02 PM10/25/12
to
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote in
news:k6boq5$us0$3...@dont-email.me:
An "early adopter," as it were, yeah. But gaming is such a screwed
up market that anything that lowers the barrier to entry will get
tried at least twice.

> Too bad you couldn't patent something that would let you sue
> Amazon or something.
>
Heh. I didn 't even anything. Just used what was already there,
which was almost entirely PDF.

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy

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Oct 25, 2012, 1:26:55 PM10/25/12
to
Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote in news:k6brrd$jrp$2@dont-
email.me:
Irrelevant to books, and unlikely to ever be a significant factorto
the average book reader. After all, paper books have gotten by
without video for millenia.

Plus, it's still, for practical purposes, a propriatery format.

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy

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Oct 25, 2012, 1:27:39 PM10/25/12
to
Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote in
news:k6brsq$jrp$3...@dont-email.me:
But how many that are really worth reading? Most of the ebook only
titles are ebook only because nobody, including the author, feels
like spending money on printing it. And rightly so.

Lynn McGuire

unread,
Oct 25, 2012, 1:36:31 PM10/25/12
to
I believe that most new books will start to include
a lot more graphics and potentially video.

I thought that HTML5 is still in transition and is a
open source format ?

Lynn


Lynn McGuire

unread,
Oct 25, 2012, 1:38:18 PM10/25/12
to
Of course, the author can get any book published
at www.lulu.com for $8 to $12 depending on color
options and size. I have bought two books this
way directly from the authors for $15 to $18 each.

Lynn

Lynn McGuire

unread,
Oct 25, 2012, 1:42:02 PM10/25/12
to
On 10/24/2012 6:46 PM, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
> Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote in
> news:k69u8h$7us$2...@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 10/24/2012 5:14 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> In article <k69f34$7ru$1...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire
>>> <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
>>>> Rights? You have no right to your eBooks.
>>>>
>>>> http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/simon-says/2012/10/rights-you-
>>>> have-no-right-to-your-ebooks/index.htm
>>>>
>>>> Get your stinking hands off my books !
>>>>
>>>> I will continue buying dead trees as long
>>>> as I can.
>>>
>>> My sentiments exactly ... not to mention that I couldn't buy an
>>> ebook reader and, if I could, could probably not read it. :)
>>
>> You and me, Dorothy.
>>
>> I keep on hoping that B&N is going to move to a
>> POD system in their stores (and Amazon also for
>> their ebooks only) but it looks like that ship
>> has sailed.
>>
> You're both outliers, and will be part of an ever shrinking segment
> of the market. It will suck to be you, not too many years in the
> future.

BTW, if B&N does not do something soon, they will be
dead. They just spun off the Nook to a new company
with Microsoft and that has been supporting the
retail stores. B&N cannot sell toys forever and
expect ToysRUs not to stomp them into the ground.

Lynn

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy

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Oct 25, 2012, 1:45:47 PM10/25/12
to
Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote in
news:k6btbb$ot5$5...@dont-email.me:
I don't. Writing simply does not pay well enough for 99% of those
who practice it to be able to afford to include video, and even
simple static artwork costs a *lot* of money when you want a
commercial license for it. Look at how much internal artwork paper
books have - there's no technical reason it can't be more, it's all
about cost.

If books and DVDs were going to merge, they would have done so
years ago.
>
> I thought that HTML5 is still in transition and is a
> open source format ?
>
It is, but it's unlikely to remain universally available the way
ASCII is. And ultimately, traditional HTML is 100% ascii, with
everyting else being what the viewing program does with it. Video
formats are still too much in flux, even to the extent of screen
size, ratio and resolution. And all video is copmressed, and has to
be, so even an open source compression algorithm will have many of
the same practical drawbacks as a closed, proprietary format: will
future programs have backwards compatibility? It's possibke, but
I'm skepitcal.

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy

unread,
Oct 25, 2012, 1:46:46 PM10/25/12
to
Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote in
news:k6bten$ot5$6...@dont-email.me:
Which is still more than it costs to publish an ebook. Homeless
people using a public library computer can publish a book for
nothing.

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy

unread,
Oct 25, 2012, 1:48:13 PM10/25/12
to
Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote in
news:k6btlm$ot5$7...@dont-email.me:
They spun off the nook operatins, but they still own most of it,
and reap the profits from its operations. The brick & mortar stores
may well disappear (or may not, if they diversify enough, who
knows?) but the B&N name isn't going anywhere any time soon.

Lawrence Watt-Evans

unread,
Oct 25, 2012, 3:10:07 PM10/25/12
to
On 2012-10-25 13:46:46 -0400, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy said:

> Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote in
> news:k6bten$ot5$6...@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 10/25/2012 12:27 PM, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
>>> Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote in
>>> news:k6brsq$jrp$3...@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>> On 10/24/2012 6:46 PM, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
>>>>> Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote in
>>>>> news:k69u8h$7us$2...@dont-email.me:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I keep on hoping that B&N is going to move to a
>>>>>> POD system in their stores (and Amazon also for
>>>>>> their ebooks only) but it looks like that ship
>>>>>> has sailed.
>>>>>>
>>>>> You're both outliers, and will be part of an ever shrinking
>>>>> segment of the market. It will suck to be you, not too many
>>>>> years in the future.
>>>>
>>>> I think that we are there already. I see many
>>>> books that are ebook only now.
>>>>
>>> But how many that are really worth reading? Most of the ebook
>>> only titles are ebook only because nobody, including the
>>> author, feels like spending money on printing it. And rightly
>>> so.
>>
>> Of course, the author can get any book published
>> at www.lulu.com for $8 to $12 depending on color
>> options and size. I have bought two books this
>> way directly from the authors for $15 to $18 each.
>>
> Which is still more than it costs to publish an ebook. Homeless
> people using a public library computer can publish a book for
> nothing.

Actually, you can publish through Lulu or CreateSpace for free, too.
It limits your options, but it's possible.

(CreateSpace used to require you to pay for production of a proof copy,
which was maybe six bucks, but now they'll allow you to use electronic
proofs instead, so it can be completely free.)

Jim G.

unread,
Oct 25, 2012, 3:10:47 PM10/25/12
to
David Johnston sent the following on Wed, 24 Oct 2012 12:48:19 -0700
(PDT):
> One moral of the story is that if you actually go so far as to pay money for a Kindle book, be sure to actually download it to your computer so you actually have it.

Yep. At the very least, keep a copy on a separate computer. Better yet,
keep your entire library on an external drive so that you don't
inadvertently connect to Amazon via separate computer and thereby give
the d-bags at Amazon the opportunity to paw through the only copies of
your downloaded books.

--
Jim G. | A fan of good reading, good writing, and fellow bookworms
http://www.goodreads.com/jimgysin/
http://www.librarything.com/home/jimgysin

Ted Nolan <tednolan>

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Oct 25, 2012, 3:18:29 PM10/25/12
to
In article <XnsA0F76A6A5FD...@69.16.186.7>,
There seems to be a developing "e-novelette" market wherein the author
gets you hooked with novels then produces a number of cheap-e-only shorts
to keep things moving.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

Ted Nolan <tednolan>

unread,
Oct 25, 2012, 3:24:35 PM10/25/12
to
In article <XnsA0F76A4A0A9...@69.16.186.7>,
You have to wonder though how well the novel as just a stream of words
will survive the nearly total leap to non-paper.

So far so good, but then pretty much all the current novel readers started
in the old paradigm.

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy

unread,
Oct 25, 2012, 5:16:34 PM10/25/12
to
t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote in
news:aethvj...@mid.individual.net:
I would expect it will survive the ebook revolution as as well as
it did the radio, televevsion and cinema revolutions.
>
> So far so good, but then pretty much all the current novel
> readers started in the old paradigm.

People who read for recreation do not, as a rule consider
multiemedia to be a replacement. Those who do watch television,
listen to the radio, or throw in a DVD.

Why would HTML5 be any difference? EPUB 3 isn't a new, more
sophisticated format for ebooks, it's a format for multi-media web
pages. I'm sure there's a market for it, yeah, but it's not the
current book market.

Lynn McGuire

unread,
Oct 25, 2012, 5:59:25 PM10/25/12
to
I see more and more authors over time throwing their
book development materials into the mix as a freebie.
I am reading _Coyote_Horizon_ right
http://www.amazon.com/Coyote-Horizon-Chronicles-Allen-Steele/dp/0441018408/
now which has several maps in it. The resolution is
very poor quality but the meaning gets across as I
have referred to them several times trying to
understand what the author is talking about.

James Patterson sometimes develops a promotional
video for his books. I imagine that he would like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAP8lvp_3lc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K5X4uymA_c
to include that video with his ebooks and not as a
separate file. I have found many of his book
videos to be very interesting.

Lynn

Konrad Gaertner

unread,
Oct 25, 2012, 6:26:51 PM10/25/12
to
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
>
> Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote in
> news:k6brsq$jrp$3...@dont-email.me:

> > I think that we are there already. I see many
> > books that are ebook only now.
> >
> But how many that are really worth reading?

The sequel to the book I just finished reading is only available as
an ebook. (And from the description it should be one of the most
important stories in this setting.) Luckily, it appears my library
can get a copy through OverDrive.


--
Konrad Gaertner - - - - - - - - - - - - email: kgae...@tx.rr.com
http://kgbooklog.livejournal.com/
"I don't mind hidden depths but I insist that there be a surface."
-- James Nicoll

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy

unread,
Oct 25, 2012, 7:03:23 PM10/25/12
to
Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote in
news:k6ccob$6e0$1...@dont-email.me:
Books have had maps in them for centuries. And EPUB has supported
images for a long time, certainly 2 always has. what's new about
that? Certianly not something you need HTML5 for.
>
> James Patterson sometimes develops a promotional
> video for his books. I imagine that he would like
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAP8lvp_3lc
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K5X4uymA_c
> to include that video with his ebooks and not as a
> separate file. I have found many of his book
> videos to be very interesting.

Patterson is hardly representative.

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy

unread,
Oct 25, 2012, 7:03:54 PM10/25/12
to
Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> wrote in news:5089BCAB.1D0266F3
@tx.rr.com:

> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
>>
>> Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote in
>> news:k6brsq$jrp$3...@dont-email.me:
>
>> > I think that we are there already. I see many
>> > books that are ebook only now.
>> >
>> But how many that are really worth reading?
>
> The sequel to the book I just finished reading is only available as
> an ebook. (And from the description it should be one of the most
> important stories in this setting.) Luckily, it appears my library
> can get a copy through OverDrive.
>
So, that'd be one, then.

John F. Eldredge

unread,
Oct 25, 2012, 7:50:24 PM10/25/12
to
On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 00:26:33 -0400, Kip Williams wrote:

> Lynn McGuire wrote, On 10/24/12 7:39 PM:
>
>> I keep on hoping that B&N is going to move to a POD system in their
>> stores (and Amazon also for their ebooks only) but it looks like that
>> ship has sailed.
>
> Interestingly, a writers' center in town is looking at the potential in
> getting their own POD capability — the hardware. If they did, wouldn't
> it help them pay it off if people paid for the privilege of using it now
> and then?
>
>
> Kip W
> rasfw

At least one print shop here in Nashville, Tennessee, is advertising
their print-on-demand services. I saw it on their electronic sign as I
was driving home from work tonight. So, they evidently think there is a
demand for the service.

--
John F. Eldredge -- jo...@jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly
is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria

David DeLaney

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Oct 25, 2012, 10:08:34 PM10/25/12
to
Well yeah, there's a convenient reset button.

Dave, red, shiiiiny
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

Brett Dunbar

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Oct 25, 2012, 10:20:29 PM10/25/12
to
In message <MCFp6...@kithrup.com>, Dorothy J Heydt
<djh...@kithrup.com> writes
>I mean that my eyes are seventy years old. All the ebook readers
>I have seen -- and, look you, they were all several years ago --
>I couldn't read worth beans. Maybe there are better ones out
>now, but I have not seen them.

Amazon have improved the Kindle's display a couple of times since then.
Each time the contrast and the resolution have been improved. A Kindle
Paperwhite costs $119 it has more fonts a built in backlight and 62%
more pixels than the 3rd generation Kindle. A 3rd generation Kindle
costs $69.
--
Great Internet Mersenne Prime Search http://www.mersenne.org/prime.htm
Livejournal http://brett-dunbar.livejournal.com/
Brett Dunbar

Wayne Throop

unread,
Oct 25, 2012, 10:38:46 PM10/25/12
to
: Brett Dunbar <br...@dimetrodon.me.uk>
: Amazon have improved the Kindle's display a couple of times since
: then. Each time the contrast and the resolution have been improved.
: A Kindle Paperwhite costs $119 it has more fonts a built in backlight
: and 62% more pixels than the 3rd generation Kindle. A 3rd generation
: Kindle costs $69.

Plus of course, even a 3rd generation kindle is *easier*
to read for aging eyes, since in addition to having contrast
not all that much worse than many a printed book, you can
adjust the font size until you *can* read it easily.

And no, you don't have to pan and scan if you do.


"I have no idea how many tonnes would have to be melted to clear the
site, or how much energy would be required to keep it clear, but it
seems to me that it might take as large a reactor to keep it free of
ice as to power the catapult."
"We can build reactors, we can melt ice. Or engineers can be sent
north for re-education until they *do* understand ice."
Dr. Chan smiled and I shivered.
--- from The Moon is a Harsh Mistress

Rod Speed

unread,
Oct 25, 2012, 10:42:53 PM10/25/12
to
Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote

>>> Since it _is_ Dorothy we're talking about here,
>>> she probably couldn't turn the e-reader on. :P

>> Possibly I could. But could I read the text
>> with my crummyvision? I'm betting not.

You've just lost that bet if you do read anything
currently and you said you did with physical books.

> See other post.

> IMHO, the best audience for e-books is people with crummy vision.

Yeah, you can even have the system read the book to you.

Rod Speed

unread,
Oct 25, 2012, 10:52:24 PM10/25/12
to
Richard R. Hershberger <rrh...@acme.com> wrote
> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <tausti...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote
>>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote
>>>> Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote

>>>>> Rights? You have no right to your eBooks.

>>>>> http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/simon-says/2012/10/rights-you-have-no-right-to-your-ebooks/index.htm

>>>>> Get your stinking hands off my books !

>>>>> I will continue buying dead trees as long as I can.

>>>> My sentiments exactly ... not to mention that I couldn't buy
>>>> an ebook reader and, if I could, could probably not read it. :)

>>> You and me, Dorothy.

>>> I keep on hoping that B&N is going to move to a POD
>>> system in their stores (and Amazon also for their ebooks
>>> only) but it looks like that ship has sailed.

>> You're both outliers, and will be part of an ever shrinking segment
>> of the market. It will suck to be you, not too many years in the future.

> My prediction is that paper books will continue indefinitely as a niche
> market.

Certainly going to be interesting to watch.

If it gets to be too much of a niche market it will just be by print on
demand tho.

Cant see anyone bothering to kill that off, but we might see the
demand get so low that few bother to keep being able to do that.

> Not like LPs are today, where some albums are released on
> LP in some combination of niche marketing and gimmick,
> but most are not. Rather, as print on demand books.
> This technology already exists.

Yeah, but its not trivial technology with the binding, so it remains to
be seen how long the demand will continue to make it worthwhile.

> I have several old and obscure books I bought this way,
> for roughly the cost of a standard book, and I am by
> and large perfectly happy with the product.

I much prefer ebooks myself and am irritated by some like Gitta
Sereny who appear to have some objection to the ebook format.

> Soon enough, new and non-obscure books will
> be nearly entirely purchased in ebook format.

Going to be interesting to see if that is true. Likely.

> But so long as there is a market for paper books, it will be
> easy enough to run them through print on demand as well.
> It won't be available in retail stores like Lynn had hoped,
> but that is what Amazon is for. The underlying principle
> here is that new formats rarely actually kill off old formats,
> the continued survival of radio and movies despite the
> existence of television being the usual example.

Its going to be interesting to see what happens
with newspapers and magazines in that regard.

Going to be interesting to see how
long physical format music lasts too.

I expect physical movie film wont be around much longer.

Ted Nolan <tednolan>

unread,
Oct 25, 2012, 11:01:26 PM10/25/12
to
In article <XnsA0F79139925...@69.16.186.7>,
You're probably right, but I just see the chance of things like automatic
character timelines and maps for any given instance eventually becoming
expected and sort of nudging the form past the "sequence of written words"
status quo. Add in the feedback from a generation of readers who are
also gamers and then authors are also gamers and and the boundries start
to blur.

Rod Speed

unread,
Oct 25, 2012, 11:32:20 PM10/25/12
to
Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote

> ::: I couldn't buy an ebook reader and,
> ::: if I could, could probably not read it. :)

> :: Do you mean you couldn't bring yourself to do such a horrible act,

> : djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> : I mean I haven't got the money to buy one.

> Ah. I meant only the "could not read it" part.
> Not being able to afford it seems entirely understandable.

Not when she can read ebooks on what she uses for usenet for free.

> : I mean that my eyes are seventy years old. All the ebook
> : readers I have seen -- and, look you, they were all several
> : years ago -- I couldn't read worth beans. Maybe there are
> : better ones out now, but I have not seen them.

> Then I suspect you'd be surprised.

Bet she'd just be in denial given that she can read usenet
and physical books. Even if she uses a synthesiser to read
usenet, she can do that with ebooks too.

> Eg, kindle now uses third or fourth generation
> e-ink displays that are very *very* readable.

Guess she could try claiming that the screen
is too small for the large print format, but
cant explain why she can read usenet fine.

> Onaccounta once I saw one (somebody with
> a kindle showed it to me), *I* was surprised.

> "No sir. *You* are amazed. *I* am surprised."
> --- punch line, old joke, author unknown to me

Rod Speed

unread,
Oct 25, 2012, 11:46:05 PM10/25/12
to


"Lynn McGuire" <l...@winsim.com> wrote in message
news:k6btbb$ot5$5...@dont-email.me...
I don't. We havent even see all that much of that with manuals.

> and potentially video.

I doubt that too with books. I think we will continue
to see a big divergence between books and video.

Rod Speed

unread,
Oct 25, 2012, 11:56:15 PM10/25/12
to


"John F. Eldredge" <jo...@jfeldredge.com> wrote in message
news:aeu1i0...@mid.individual.net...
> On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 00:26:33 -0400, Kip Williams wrote:
>
>> Lynn McGuire wrote, On 10/24/12 7:39 PM:
>>
>>> I keep on hoping that B&N is going to move to a POD system in their
>>> stores (and Amazon also for their ebooks only) but it looks like that
>>> ship has sailed.
>>
>> Interestingly, a writers' center in town is looking at the potential in
>> getting their own POD capability — the hardware. If they did, wouldn't
>> it help them pay it off if people paid for the privilege of using it now
>> and then?
>>
>>
>> Kip W
>> rasfw
>
> At least one print shop here in Nashville, Tennessee, is advertising
> their print-on-demand services. I saw it on their electronic sign as I
> was driving home from work tonight. So, they evidently think there is a
> demand for the service.

And it remains to be seen how much demand there actually is for that.

Ted Nolan <tednolan>

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 12:09:17 AM10/26/12
to
In article <aeug07...@mid.individual.net>,
It seems to me that there would be very little demand for store-front
POD operations. On the other hand, places like Amazon would get enough
volume to make it worthwhile.

In fact I just ordered a book from Amazon, and it came within their standard
2-day "prime" shipping. Looking at a note in the back, I saw it had been
printed and bound the day I ordered it.

Rod Speed

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 2:22:43 AM10/26/12
to
Ted Nolan <tednolan> <t...@loft.tnolan.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> John F. Eldredge <jo...@jfeldredge.com> wrote
>>> Kip Williams wrote
>>>> Lynn McGuire wrote

>>>>> I keep on hoping that B&N is going to move to a
>>>>> POD system in their stores (and Amazon also for their
>>>>> ebooks only) but it looks like that ship has sailed.

>>>> Interestingly, a writers' center in town is looking at the
>>>> potential in getting their own POD capability — the
>>>> hardware. If they did, wouldn't it help them pay it off if
>>>> people paid for the privilege of using it now and then?

>>> At least one print shop here in Nashville, Tennessee, is advertising
>>> their print-on-demand services. I saw it on their electronic sign as
>>> I was driving home from work tonight. So, they evidently think
>>> there is a demand for the service.

>> And it remains to be seen how much demand there actually is for that.

> It seems to me that there would be very little
> demand for store-front POD operations.

Yeah, me too, tho the local bookstores have been claiming
that they will be offering that. Not sure that any are tho.

> On the other hand, places like Amazon would
> get enough volume to make it worthwhile.

Yeah, likely. Bit tricky competing with their ebook operations tho.

> In fact I just ordered a book from Amazon, and it came within
> their standard 2-day "prime" shipping. Looking at a note in the
> back, I saw it had been printed and bound the day I ordered it.

Did you deliberately order one from dead trees with an ebook
available, or was it one of those where there is no ebook available ?

Richard R. Hershberger

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 10:15:30 AM10/26/12
to
On Oct 25, 12:07 pm, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
<tausti...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Richard R. Hershberger" <rrhe...@acme.com> wrote innews:ae449dc7-c71d-4e76...@x21g2000vbg.googlegroups.
> com:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 24, 7:46 pm, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
> > <tausti...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote
> >> innews:k69u8h$7us$2...@dont-email.me:
>
> >> > On 10/24/2012 5:14 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> >> In article <k69f34$7r...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire
> >> >> <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
> >> >>> Rights? You have no right to your eBooks.
>
> >> >>>http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/simon-says/2012/10/rights-yo
> >> >>>u-
> >> >>> have-no-right-to-your-ebooks/index.htm
>
> >> >>> Get your stinking hands off my books !
>
> >> >>> I will continue buying dead trees as long
> >> >>> as I can.
>
> >> >> My sentiments exactly ... not to mention that I couldn't buy
> >> >> an ebook reader and, if I could, could probably not read it.
> >> >> :)
>
> >> > You and me, Dorothy.
>
> >> > I keep on hoping that B&N is going to move to a
> >> > POD system in their stores (and Amazon also for
> >> > their ebooks only) but it looks like that ship
> >> > has sailed.
>
> >> You're both outliers, and will be part of an ever shrinking
> >> segment of the market. It will suck to be you, not too many
> >> years in the future.
>
> > My prediction is that paper books will continue indefinitely as
> > a niche market.  Not like LPs are today, where some albums are
> > released on LP in some combination of niche marketing and
> > gimmick, but most are not.  Rather, as print on demand books.
> > This technology already exists.  I have several old and obscure
> > books I bought this way, for roughly the cost of a standard
> > book, and I am by and large perfectly happy with the product.
> > Soon enough, new and non-obscure books will be nearly entirely
> > purchased in ebook format.  But so long as there is a market for
> > paper books, it will be easy enough to run them through print on
> > demand as well.  It won't be available in retail stores like
> > Lynn had hoped, but that is what Amazon is for.  The underlying
> > principle here is that new formats rarely actually kill off old
> > formats, the continued survival of radio and movies despite the
> > existence of television being the usual example.
>
> Radio survived by changing to something completely different. You
> don't hear too many fictional drama programs on the radio these
> days. Movies survive becasue television really is a different
> medium, and a different art form.
>
> The only advantage POD paper books have is that once the publishers
> get their heads out of their asses, it will be zero extra work to
> make POD available, because it can use the same data files as the
> ebooks.

That's a pretty big advantage. And you forgot the second advantage:
some percentage of the market prefers physical books and is willing to
pay for them. This combination seems to me pretty powerful.

Richard R. Hershberger

Ted Nolan <tednolan>

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 12:17:03 PM10/26/12
to
In article <aeuoir...@mid.individual.net>,
Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Ted Nolan <tednolan> <t...@loft.tnolan.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> John F. Eldredge <jo...@jfeldredge.com> wrote
>>>> Kip Williams wrote
>>>>> Lynn McGuire wrote
>
>>>>>> I keep on hoping that B&N is going to move to a
>>>>>> POD system in their stores (and Amazon also for their
>>>>>> ebooks only) but it looks like that ship has sailed.
>
>>>>> Interestingly, a writers' center in town is looking at the
>>>>> potential in getting their own POD capability — the
>>>>> hardware. If they did, wouldn't it help them pay it off if
>>>>> people paid for the privilege of using it now and then?
>
>>>> At least one print shop here in Nashville, Tennessee, is advertising
>>>> their print-on-demand services. I saw it on their electronic sign as
>>>> I was driving home from work tonight. So, they evidently think
>>>> there is a demand for the service.
>
>>> And it remains to be seen how much demand there actually is for that.
>
>> It seems to me that there would be very little
>> demand for store-front POD operations.
>
>Yeah, me too, tho the local bookstores have been claiming
>that they will be offering that. Not sure that any are tho.
>
>> On the other hand, places like Amazon would
>> get enough volume to make it worthwhile.
>
>Yeah, likely. Bit tricky competing with their ebook operations tho.

Well that's a classic business dilemma. The right answer usually seems
to be "Well, *somebody* is going to compete against us that way, might
as well be us". (The wrong answer was chosen by DEC and Borders etc..)

>
>> In fact I just ordered a book from Amazon, and it came within
>> their standard 2-day "prime" shipping. Looking at a note in the
>> back, I saw it had been printed and bound the day I ordered it.
>
>Did you deliberately order one from dead trees with an ebook
>available, or was it one of those where there is no ebook available ?
>

Yeah, and I knew it wasn't a major publisher book, but I didn't know
they were PODing it in copy runs of 1. (I *should* have!) It's quite
well printed and bound I must say.

Stephen Graham

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 12:43:33 PM10/26/12
to
On 10/26/2012 9:17 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:

> Yeah, and I knew it wasn't a major publisher book, but I didn't know
> they were PODing it in copy runs of 1. (I *should* have!) It's quite
> well printed and bound I must say.

Some of the university presses are going to POD to keep titles
available. I've gotten a couple of titles from UNC Press as a result of
this.

It's also common now for textbooks on the more abstruse topics.

Lynn McGuire

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 2:19:28 PM10/26/12
to
Patterson is a leader and a blazer of trails.
Others will follow.

Lynn

Louann Miller

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 2:54:53 PM10/26/12
to
d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote in
news:slrnk8jqa...@gatekeeper.vic.com:

>>Next time Dorothy talks about e-readers, it will be as if no one ever
>>pointed this out.
>
> Well yeah, there's a convenient reset button.
>
> Dave, red, shiiiiny
>

You just have to translate Dorothy's term of art "can't" as "don't wanna,
ain't gonna." Saves many headaches.

erilar

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 6:23:41 PM10/26/12
to
In article <k69f34$7ru$1...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com>
wrote:

> Rights? You have no right to your eBooks.
> http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/simon-says/2012/10/rights-you-have-no-ri
> ght-to-your-ebooks/index.htm
>
> Get your stinking hands off my books !
>
> I will continue buying dead trees as long
> as I can.

Dead tree books won't vanish if electronic reader systems "update" too
far.

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist


erilar

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 6:26:04 PM10/26/12
to
In article <exBjUCht...@dimetrodon.me.uk>,
Brett Dunbar <br...@dimetrodon.me.uk> wrote:

> Amazon have improved the Kindle's display a couple of times since then.
> Each time the contrast and the resolution have been improved. A Kindle
> Paperwhite costs $119 it has more fonts a built in backlight and 62%
> more pixels than the 3rd generation Kindle. A 3rd generation Kindle
> costs $69.

And maybe Dorothy would have to buy books for it. . .

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist


erilar

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 6:28:00 PM10/26/12
to
In article <50889d3f$0$71169$742e...@news.sonic.net>,
Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:

> On 10/24/2012 5:23 PM, Wayne Throop wrote:
> > : djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> > : I couldn't buy an ebook reader and,
> > : if I could, could probably not read it. :)
> >
> > Do you mean you couldn't bring yourself to do such a horrible act, or
> > that something would prevent you from viewing the text on an eink display?
> >
> > (Yes, I saw the smiley, but I'm still curious...)
> >
> Since it _is_ Dorothy we're talking about here, she probably couldn't
> turn the e-reader on. :P

I don't know how many free e-books there are for Kindle. If I pay
money, it's almost invariably for paper, but I like the freebies I find,
and given the option, feed them to iBooks instead.

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist


erilar

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 6:30:28 PM10/26/12
to
In article <o7GdnSTa993gQRfN...@giganews.com>,
As she just pointed out, there's also "can't afford". I can now, but
there were times when it was reread something or get it from the library
because I couldn't afford to buy books, and she's also pointed out that
getting to the library can be another problem.

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist


Howard Brazee

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 6:38:18 PM10/26/12
to
On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 17:28:00 -0500, erilar
<dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:

>I don't know how many free e-books there are for Kindle. If I pay
>money, it's almost invariably for paper, but I like the freebies I find,
>and given the option, feed them to iBooks instead.

http://www.squidoo.com/the-best-of-amazon-daily-free-ebooks-kindle-ipad


--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

Howard Brazee

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 6:39:23 PM10/26/12
to
On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 17:23:41 -0500, erilar
<dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:

>Dead tree books won't vanish if electronic reader systems "update" too
>far.

What does that mean?

E-books can be backed up, dead tree books not so much.

Kurt Busiek

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 7:00:52 PM10/26/12
to
On 2012-10-26 22:30:28 +0000, erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> said:

> In article <o7GdnSTa993gQRfN...@giganews.com>,
> Louann Miller <loua...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote in
>> news:slrnk8jqa...@gatekeeper.vic.com:
>>
>>>> Next time Dorothy talks about e-readers, it will be as if no one ever
>>>> pointed this out.
>>>
>>> Well yeah, there's a convenient reset button.
>>>
>>> Dave, red, shiiiiny
>>>
>>
>> You just have to translate Dorothy's term of art "can't" as "don't wanna,
>> ain't gonna." Saves many headaches.
>
> As she just pointed out, there's also "can't afford".

But that's not the part of her claim that people were pointing out was wrong.

kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!

Rod Speed

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 7:09:19 PM10/26/12
to
Ted Nolan <tednolan> <t...@loft.tnolan.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>Ted Nolan <tednolan> <t...@loft.tnolan.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> John F. Eldredge <jo...@jfeldredge.com> wrote
>>>>> Kip Williams wrote
>>>>>> Lynn McGuire wrote

>>>>>>> I keep on hoping that B&N is going to move to a
>>>>>>> POD system in their stores (and Amazon also for their
>>>>>>> ebooks only) but it looks like that ship has sailed.

>>>>>> Interestingly, a writers' center in town is looking at the
>>>>>> potential in getting their own POD capability — the
>>>>>> hardware. If they did, wouldn't it help them pay it off if
>>>>>> people paid for the privilege of using it now and then?

>>>>> At least one print shop here in Nashville, Tennessee, is advertising
>>>>> their print-on-demand services. I saw it on their electronic sign as
>>>>> I was driving home from work tonight. So, they evidently think
>>>>> there is a demand for the service.

>>>> And it remains to be seen how much demand there actually is for that.

>>> It seems to me that there would be very little
>>> demand for store-front POD operations.

>> Yeah, me too, tho the local bookstores have been claiming
>> that they will be offering that. Not sure that any are tho.

>>> On the other hand, places like Amazon would
>>> get enough volume to make it worthwhile.

>> Yeah, likely. Bit tricky competing with their ebook operations tho.

> Well that's a classic business dilemma.

Bit different in this case. Basically places like Amazon make
money regardless of whether they sell the ebook or the physical
book as long as they charge enough extra for the physical book
to pay for the higher distribution cost of the POD route.

What remains to be seen is how many will be prepared
to pay the real cost of providing the physical books
when the operation already has the ebook and it
costs peanuts to distribute that in ebook format.

Its likely to be enough to be viable with the more expensive
books where the cost of physical printing isnt too high a
percentage of the price they pay for the book, but its less
clear how many will be prepared to pay the much higher
cost of printing the book with the stuff that goes for say 99c
in ebook format. In spades with the free stuff in ebook format.

> The right answer usually seems to be "Well, *somebody* is
> going to compete against us that way, might as well be us".

That isnt really the case with ebooks where anyone choosing
to offer a POD service has to buy the ebook from the operation
like Amazon if they want to offer a POD service for those
prepared to pay more for the physical book.

> (The wrong answer was chosen by DEC and Borders etc..)

Its not necessarily a choice with operations like Amazon except
in the sense of deciding whether to offer a POD service or not.

Rod Speed

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 7:48:17 PM10/26/12
to


"erilar" <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:drache-8F2C2C....@news.eternal-september.org...
But can be a problem when the house burns down
or gets flooded etc.

Rod Speed

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 7:51:51 PM10/26/12
to


"erilar" <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:drache-012F7A....@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <50889d3f$0$71169$742e...@news.sonic.net>,
> Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> On 10/24/2012 5:23 PM, Wayne Throop wrote:
>> > : djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>> > : I couldn't buy an ebook reader and,
>> > : if I could, could probably not read it. :)
>> >
>> > Do you mean you couldn't bring yourself to do such a horrible act, or
>> > that something would prevent you from viewing the text on an eink
>> > display?
>> >
>> > (Yes, I saw the smiley, but I'm still curious...)
>> >
>> Since it _is_ Dorothy we're talking about here, she probably couldn't
>> turn the e-reader on. :P

> I don't know how many free e-books there are for Kindle.

Heaps in fact.
http://www.squidoo.com/the-best-of-amazon-daily-free-ebooks-kindle-ipad

> If I pay money, it's almost invariably for paper,

I prefer ebooks myself, unless they cost more in ebook format.

> but I like the freebies I find,

Yeah, I normally only read non fiction but do find enough free ones to read.

> and given the option, feed them to iBooks instead.

I just leave them on my PC and back them up properly so Amazon
can't do anything to them.


Howard Brazee

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 7:56:03 PM10/26/12
to
On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 10:09:19 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Bit different in this case. Basically places like Amazon make
>money regardless of whether they sell the ebook or the physical
>book as long as they charge enough extra for the physical book
>to pay for the higher distribution cost of the POD route.
>
>What remains to be seen is how many will be prepared
>to pay the real cost of providing the physical books
>when the operation already has the ebook and it
>costs peanuts to distribute that in ebook format.

What I'd like to see is something that has existed for a while in the
sheet music business - the ability to go to a local store and print up
a dead tree book on demand. I expect it will happen, on a small
scale.

Dimensional Traveler

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 8:12:00 PM10/26/12
to
On 10/26/2012 3:39 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 17:23:41 -0500, erilar
> <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Dead tree books won't vanish if electronic reader systems "update" too
>> far.
>
> What does that mean?
>
> E-books can be backed up, dead tree books not so much.
>
But can your new ereader use the old format?

--
The 'Enterprise' crew in the 2009 Star Trek are adrenaline addicted,
hyper-active teenagers with ADD whose Ritalin got replaced with
methamphetamine, displaying a level of discipline that a Somali pirate
wouldn't tolerate.

David Johnston

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 8:38:28 PM10/26/12
to
On Friday, October 26, 2012 5:12:06 PM UTC-7, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 10/26/2012 3:39 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 17:23:41 -0500, erilar
>
> > <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >> Dead tree books won't vanish if electronic reader systems "update" too
>
> >> far.
>
> >
>
> > What does that mean?
>
> >
>
> > E-books can be backed up, dead tree books not so much.
>
> >
>
> But can your new ereader use the old format?
>

That's why I have calibre with the conversion add-on.

Howard Brazee

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 9:25:02 PM10/26/12
to
On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 17:12:00 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:

>On 10/26/2012 3:39 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 17:23:41 -0500, erilar
>> <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Dead tree books won't vanish if electronic reader systems "update" too
>>> far.
>>
>> What does that mean?
>>
>> E-books can be backed up, dead tree books not so much.
>>
>But can your new ereader use the old format?

Mine can. It takes a bit of work, but all of my e-books are
un-protected and stored with Calibre where I can convert them as I
will.

David DeLaney

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 10:02:02 PM10/26/12
to
Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>>I don't know how many free e-books there are for Kindle. If I pay
>>money, it's almost invariably for paper, but I like the freebies I find,
>>and given the option, feed them to iBooks instead.
>
>http://www.squidoo.com/the-best-of-amazon-daily-free-ebooks-kindle-ipad

Plus there's all of Project Gutenberg.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

Rod Speed

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 9:52:48 PM10/26/12
to

"erilar" <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:drache-D73D68....@news.eternal-september.org...
Trouble with that line is that there are hordes of free ebooks.

Rod Speed

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 10:02:52 PM10/26/12
to
Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

>> Bit different in this case. Basically places like Amazon make
>> money regardless of whether they sell the ebook or the physical
>> book as long as they charge enough extra for the physical book
>> to pay for the higher distribution cost of the POD route.

>> What remains to be seen is how many will be prepared
>> to pay the real cost of providing the physical books
>> when the operation already has the ebook and it
>> costs peanuts to distribute that in ebook format.

> What I'd like to see is something that has existed for a
> while in the sheet music business - the ability to go to
> a local store and print up a dead tree book on demand.

That is in fact what has been available for quite a while now.

> I expect it will happen, on a small scale.

That is in fact what has been available for quite a while now.

Like I said, it remains to be seen how many will be prepared
to pay the extra cost of printing the book like that, particularly
when its available significantly cheaper in ebook format when
the source of the book just charges the real cost of distribution.

Rod Speed

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 10:04:00 PM10/26/12
to


"Dimensional Traveler" <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:508b26d5$0$71148$742e...@news.sonic.net...
> On 10/26/2012 3:39 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 17:23:41 -0500, erilar
>> <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Dead tree books won't vanish if electronic reader systems "update" too
>>> far.
>>
>> What does that mean?
>>
>> E-books can be backed up, dead tree books not so much.
>>
> But can your new ereader use the old format?

The format can certainly be converted and a lot
more easily than is possible with a dead tree book.

James Nicoll

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 11:19:02 PM10/26/12
to
In article <drache-012F7A....@news.eternal-september.org>,
erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>In article <50889d3f$0$71169$742e...@news.sonic.net>,
> Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> On 10/24/2012 5:23 PM, Wayne Throop wrote:
>> > : djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>> > : I couldn't buy an ebook reader and,
>> > : if I could, could probably not read it. :)
>> >
>> > Do you mean you couldn't bring yourself to do such a horrible act, or
>> > that something would prevent you from viewing the text on an eink display?
>> >
>> > (Yes, I saw the smiley, but I'm still curious...)
>> >
>> Since it _is_ Dorothy we're talking about here, she probably couldn't
>> turn the e-reader on. :P
>
>I don't know how many free e-books there are for Kindle.

Kajillion, given Gutenberg and Caliber if the formats at Gutenber don't
work in a Kindle (I use a Kobo).

--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)

Kurt Busiek

unread,
Oct 26, 2012, 11:46:51 PM10/26/12
to
On 2012-10-27 03:19:02 +0000, jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) said:

> In article <drache-012F7A....@news.eternal-september.org>,
> erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>> In article <50889d3f$0$71169$742e...@news.sonic.net>,
>> Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/24/2012 5:23 PM, Wayne Throop wrote:
>>>> : djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>>> : I couldn't buy an ebook reader and,
>>>> : if I could, could probably not read it. :)
>>>>
>>>> Do you mean you couldn't bring yourself to do such a horrible act, or
>>>> that something would prevent you from viewing the text on an eink display?
>>>>
>>>> (Yes, I saw the smiley, but I'm still curious...)
>>>>
>>> Since it _is_ Dorothy we're talking about here, she probably couldn't
>>> turn the e-reader on. :P
>>
>> I don't know how many free e-books there are for Kindle.
>
> Kajillion, given Gutenberg and Caliber if the formats at Gutenber don't
> work in a Kindle (I use a Kobo).

Gutenberg has Kindle-friendly files.

Kip Williams

unread,
Oct 27, 2012, 12:46:57 AM10/27/12
to
Kurt Busiek wrote, On 10/26/12 11:46 PM:
True, and the quality of these files has improved in the time I've owned
a reader. The automatically generated EPUBs had various irritating
flaws, and now they don't — and as they are gone, I'm no longer
remembering clearly just what they were in the first place. Line returns?

Gutenberg is not 100% perfect on proofreading, but they're far ahead of
the competition — Google Books and Archive.org have many titles, but too
many of them are made almost completely useless by horrendous OCR errors
and no apparent human oversight.

And like the guy in another thread, I've said this before, and I can say
it more briefly each time!


Kip W
rasfw

Andy Leighton

unread,
Oct 27, 2012, 6:41:50 AM10/27/12
to
On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 09:07:07 -0700,
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
> Radio survived by changing to something completely different. You
> don't hear too many fictional drama programs on the radio these
> days.

In the USA I believe that is the case. In the UK we still have radio
drama and comedy and panel shows etc. There is a soap opera called
The Archers which is broadcast at lunchtime and in the evening (with
an omnibus on Sunday morning). It has a weekly reach of around 5
million according to RAJAR.

--
Andy Leighton => an...@azaal.plus.com
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

Andy Leighton

unread,
Oct 27, 2012, 6:45:52 AM10/27/12
to
On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 10:27:39 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote in
> news:k6brsq$jrp$3...@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 10/24/2012 6:46 PM, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
>>> Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote in
>>> news:k69u8h$7us$2...@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>> On 10/24/2012 5:14 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>> In article <k69f34$7ru$1...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire
>>>>> <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Rights? You have no right to your eBooks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/simon-says/2012/10/rights-yo
>>>>>> u- have-no-right-to-your-ebooks/index.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Get your stinking hands off my books !
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will continue buying dead trees as long
>>>>>> as I can.
>>>>>
>>>>> My sentiments exactly ... not to mention that I couldn't buy
>>>>> an ebook reader and, if I could, could probably not read it.
>>>>> :)
>>>>
>>>> You and me, Dorothy.
>>>>
>>>> I keep on hoping that B&N is going to move to a
>>>> POD system in their stores (and Amazon also for
>>>> their ebooks only) but it looks like that ship
>>>> has sailed.
>>>>
>>> You're both outliers, and will be part of an ever shrinking
>>> segment of the market. It will suck to be you, not too many
>>> years in the future.
>>
>> I think that we are there already. I see many
>> books that are ebook only now.
>>
> But how many that are really worth reading? Most of the ebook only
> titles are ebook only because nobody, including the author, feels
> like spending money on printing it. And rightly so.

There has only been a couple of ebook only books I've bought.

_Channel Skin_ by Jeff Noon
_Stories From The Quiet War_ by Paul McAuley - which is a very cheap,
small collection.

Howard Brazee

unread,
Oct 27, 2012, 9:44:25 AM10/27/12
to
On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 13:04:00 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> But can your new ereader use the old format?
>
>The format can certainly be converted and a lot
>more easily than is possible with a dead tree book.

No wonder I was having so much trouble converting my hard bound copy
into something that could fit in my pocket.

David Dyer-Bennet

unread,
Oct 27, 2012, 12:43:57 PM10/27/12
to
Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> writes:

> On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 13:04:00 +1100, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> But can your new ereader use the old format?
>>
>>The format can certainly be converted and a lot
>>more easily than is possible with a dead tree book.
>
> No wonder I was having so much trouble converting my hard bound copy
> into something that could fit in my pocket.

I've converted dead tree into ebook; at least four times I remember for
sure. It takes a while, three or four hours. Could be less with a much
better scanner. Could be more with much better proofreading.
--
Googleproofaddress(account:dd-b provider:dd-b domain:net)
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

Kurt Busiek

unread,
Oct 27, 2012, 12:48:18 PM10/27/12
to
On 2012-10-27 16:43:57 +0000, David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net> said:

> Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> writes:
>
>> On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 13:04:00 +1100, "Rod Speed"
>> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> But can your new ereader use the old format?
>>>
>>> The format can certainly be converted and a lot
>>> more easily than is possible with a dead tree book.
>>
>> No wonder I was having so much trouble converting my hard bound copy
>> into something that could fit in my pocket.
>
> I've converted dead tree into ebook; at least four times I remember for
> sure. It takes a while, three or four hours. Could be less with a much
> better scanner. Could be more with much better proofreading.

But as noted, converting one e-format to another tends to be much easier.

Rod Speed

unread,
Oct 27, 2012, 2:50:54 PM10/27/12
to
Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

>>> But can your new ereader use the old format?

>> The format can certainly be converted and a lot
>> more easily than is possible with a dead tree book.

> No wonder I was having so much trouble converting my hard
> bound copy into something that could fit in my pocket.

Have fun fitting hundreds of them into your pocket
as you can so trivially with ebooks.

In fact I can get hundreds of them into something
as small as a packet of cigarettes.

Have fun doing that with hundreds of hard bound
copys and still be able to use them like the original.

Wayne Throop

unread,
Oct 27, 2012, 3:09:17 PM10/27/12
to
:::: The format can certainly be converted and a lot more easily than is
:::: possible with a dead tree book.

::: No wonder I was having so much trouble converting my hard bound copy
::: into something that could fit in my pocket.

:: I've converted dead tree into ebook; at least four times I remember
:: for sure. It takes a while, three or four hours. Could be less with
:: a much better scanner. Could be more with much better proofreading.

: Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com>
: But as noted, converting one e-format to another tends to be much easier.

Converting e-format to dt-format also tends to be much much much
easier than the other way 'round.

David Dyer-Bennet

unread,
Oct 27, 2012, 3:23:00 PM10/27/12
to
Yes, I've done that a lot more often, and it's often seconds of my time
rather than minutes or hours (if the initial format is a decent ebook to
begin with). When I've converted manuscript files into an ebook, that
takes some more work.

erilar

unread,
Oct 27, 2012, 5:38:23 PM10/27/12
to
In article <slrnk8ner0...@azaal.plus.com>,
Andy Leighton <an...@azaal.plus.com> wrote:

> Most of the ebook only
> > titles are ebook only because nobody, including the author, feels
> > like spending money on printing it. And rightly so.

Sometimes the ebook is the only one available in this country. I've
bought a couple rather than pay overseas postage 8-)

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist


erilar

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Oct 27, 2012, 5:40:33 PM10/27/12
to
In article <k6flfb$qr4$1...@dont-email.me>, Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com>
wrote:
Since I have an iPad, I didn't know whether that was the case. I just
have the Kindle app, most of the contents of which are one-day free
historical mysteries I learn about via mailing list 8-)

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist


Dimensional Traveler

unread,
Oct 27, 2012, 8:09:54 PM10/27/12
to
On 10/26/2012 6:25 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 17:12:00 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
> <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> On 10/26/2012 3:39 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
>>> On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 17:23:41 -0500, erilar
>>> <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dead tree books won't vanish if electronic reader systems "update" too
>>>> far.
>>>
>>> What does that mean?
>>>
>>> E-books can be backed up, dead tree books not so much.
>>>
>> But can your new ereader use the old format?
>
> Mine can. It takes a bit of work, but all of my e-books are
> un-protected and stored with Calibre where I can convert them as I
> will.
>
That's a "No, but I went to some effort (and possibly spent some money)
to fix that." ;)

Howard Brazee

unread,
Oct 28, 2012, 9:41:56 AM10/28/12
to
On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 17:09:54 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:

>>> But can your new ereader use the old format?
>>
>> Mine can. It takes a bit of work, but all of my e-books are
>> un-protected and stored with Calibre where I can convert them as I
>> will.
>>
>That's a "No, but I went to some effort (and possibly spent some money)
>to fix that." ;)

That's a "Yes", but I went to a bit of effort (and no money) to
guarantee that.

Jim G.

unread,
Oct 29, 2012, 3:23:10 PM10/29/12
to
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy sent the following on Thu, 25 Oct 2012
10:27:39 -0700:
> Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote in
> news:k6brsq$jrp$3...@dont-email.me:
>
> > I think that we are there already. I see many
> > books that are ebook only now.
> >
> But how many that are really worth reading? Most of the ebook only
> titles are ebook only because nobody, including the author, feels
> like spending money on printing it. And rightly so.

Yep. Just one step removed (if that) from vanity publishing.

--
Jim G. | A fan of good reading, good writing, and fellow bookworms
http://www.goodreads.com/jimgysin/
http://www.librarything.com/home/jimgysin

Jim G.

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Oct 29, 2012, 3:23:10 PM10/29/12
to
Lawrence Watt-Evans sent the following on Thu, 25 Oct 2012 02:01:14
-0400:
> On 2012-10-25 01:42:46 -0400, Dorothy J Heydt said:
>
> > In article <50889d3f$0$71169$742e...@news.sonic.net>,
> > Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
> >> On 10/24/2012 5:23 PM, Wayne Throop wrote:
> >>> : djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> >>> : I couldn't buy an ebook reader and,
> >>> : if I could, could probably not read it. :)
> >>>
> >>> Do you mean you couldn't bring yourself to do such a horrible act, or
> >>> that something would prevent you from viewing the text on an eink display?
> >>>
> >>> (Yes, I saw the smiley, but I'm still curious...)
> >>>
> >> Since it _is_ Dorothy we're talking about here, she probably couldn't
> >> turn the e-reader on. :P
> >
> > Possibly I could. But could I read the text with my crummy
> > vision? I'm betting not. See other post.
>
> We've been through this before.

So why get sucked into playing the game *again*?

> All modern e-readers let you enlarge
> the font to pretty much any size you like; if you can read a computer
> screen, you can read an e-reader.

She knows that. She can't possibly *not* know that at this point. This
is just a way that she can guarantee herself some attention. Which, to
me, qualifies as trolling, which justifies treating her like any other
troll in this context.

Jim G.

unread,
Oct 29, 2012, 3:23:10 PM10/29/12
to
Kurt Busiek sent the following on Thu, 25 Oct 2012 10:06:31 -0700:
> On 2012-10-25 06:01:14 +0000, Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> said:
>
> > All modern e-readers let you enlarge the font to pretty much any size
> > you like; if you can read a computer screen, you can read an e-reader.
>
> Next time Dorothy talks about e-readers, it will be as if no one ever
> pointed this out.

Heh. Exactly.

Lawrence Watt-Evans

unread,
Oct 29, 2012, 4:55:57 PM10/29/12
to
On 2012-10-29 15:23:10 -0400, Jim G. said:

> Lawrence Watt-Evans sent the following on Thu, 25 Oct 2012 02:01:14
> -0400:
>> On 2012-10-25 01:42:46 -0400, Dorothy J Heydt said:
>>
>>> In article <50889d3f$0$71169$742e...@news.sonic.net>,
>>> Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>> On 10/24/2012 5:23 PM, Wayne Throop wrote:
>>>>> : djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>>>> : I couldn't buy an ebook reader and,
>>>>> : if I could, could probably not read it. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you mean you couldn't bring yourself to do such a horrible act, or
>>>>> that something would prevent you from viewing the text on an eink display?
>>>>>
>>>> Since it _is_ Dorothy we're talking about here, she probably couldn't
>>>> turn the e-reader on. :P
>>>
>>> Possibly I could. But could I read the text with my crummy
>>> vision? I'm betting not. See other post.
>>
>> We've been through this before.
>
> So why get sucked into playing the game *again*?

For the sake of any newcomers or passers-by who may think she knows
what she's talking about.

>> All modern e-readers let you enlarge
>> the font to pretty much any size you like; if you can read a computer
>> screen, you can read an e-reader.
>
> She knows that. She can't possibly *not* know that at this point.

Sure she can. She's very good at forgetting things she didn't want to know.

> This
> is just a way that she can guarantee herself some attention. Which, to
> me, qualifies as trolling, which justifies treating her like any other
> troll in this context.


--
Now available on Amazon or B&N: One-Eyed Jack.
Greg Kraft could see ghosts. That didn't mean he could stop them...

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