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How to be Erased from SF Conversation
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Robert Woodward
Jan 25, 2018, 1:25:13 PM1/25/18
to
Some say that women have a built-in "advantage" for this, but the
following applies to everybody. Any author who encounters any of the
following is very likely to be completely forgotten.
1) Die
This means no more books and thus, an every decreasing number of
reprints (though the rate depends on just how big a presence and
backlist the author left behind). True, if the presence is big enough,
there is a chance that the author will be the sole survivor of an entire
literary field (after all, other than experts, who* can name 1590-1630
English playwrights not named Shakespeare). Not writing a will (with the
naming of a literary executor), even though suffering from a chronic
illness known to cut years off lifespans this leaving the estate to
relatives who despise that work, will speed up the process.
2) Stop writing
This has the same result as dying, but the author can witness the
diminishing of royalties.
3) Go out of favor
Being dropped by publishers is similar to stop writing, but more
frustrating. I believe that one or two regular posters to
rec.arts.sf.written could address this from personal experience.
* While not an expert, I can think of 2 other names (Christopher Marlowe
and Ben Jonson).
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
ã-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robe...@drizzle.com
following applies to everybody. Any author who encounters any of the
following is very likely to be completely forgotten.
1) Die
This means no more books and thus, an every decreasing number of
reprints (though the rate depends on just how big a presence and
backlist the author left behind). True, if the presence is big enough,
there is a chance that the author will be the sole survivor of an entire
literary field (after all, other than experts, who* can name 1590-1630
English playwrights not named Shakespeare). Not writing a will (with the
naming of a literary executor), even though suffering from a chronic
illness known to cut years off lifespans this leaving the estate to
relatives who despise that work, will speed up the process.
2) Stop writing
This has the same result as dying, but the author can witness the
diminishing of royalties.
3) Go out of favor
Being dropped by publishers is similar to stop writing, but more
frustrating. I believe that one or two regular posters to
rec.arts.sf.written could address this from personal experience.
* While not an expert, I can think of 2 other names (Christopher Marlowe
and Ben Jonson).
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
ã-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robe...@drizzle.com
Ahasuerus
Jan 25, 2018, 3:59:15 PM1/25/18
to
On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 1:25:13 PM UTC-5, Robert Woodward wrote:
> Some say that women have a built-in "advantage" for this, but the
> following applies to everybody. Any author who encounters any of the
> following is very likely to be completely forgotten.
[snip-snip]
> Some say that women have a built-in "advantage" for this, but the
> following applies to everybody. Any author who encounters any of the
> following is very likely to be completely forgotten.
Humans can only have so many balls in the air. New authors appear ->
some of them become popular -> some old authors become less popular and
eventually fade away. The same thing happens in other fields. Sic
semper erat, et sic semper erit.
That said, there have been some changes lately.
First, it's much easier to find old works these days. Between Project
Gutenberg and e-editions (e.g.
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisher.cgi?43795, which could use a
plug), we have ready access to more old fiction than ever before.
Second, readers' preferences have changed over time. Short fiction is
less popular than it once was. Novels are much longer than they once
were. Series are vastly more popular: in 1960 less than 25% of novels
belonged to a series; now it's over 75%
(http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/novels_in_series.cgi). A single volume
by Brandon Sanderson may take more hours to read than 5 books
published in the 1950s-1960s.
It will be interesting to see how these trends, assuming they continue,
will affect our collective memory over the next few decades.
Dorothy J Heydt
Jan 25, 2018, 4:30:08 PM1/25/18
to
In article <robertaw-5D15E5...@news.individual.net>,
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com> wrote:
>Some say that women have a built-in "advantage" for this, but the
>following applies to everybody. Any author who encounters any of the
>following is very likely to be completely forgotten.
>
>1) Die
>
>This means no more books and thus, an every decreasing number of
>reprints (though the rate depends on just how big a presence and
>backlist the author left behind). True, if the presence is big enough,
>there is a chance that the author will be the sole survivor of an entire
>literary field (after all, other than experts, who* can name 1590-1630
>English playwrights not named Shakespeare). Not writing a will (with the
>naming of a literary executor), even though suffering from a chronic
>illness known to cut years off lifespans this leaving the estate to
>relatives who despise that work, will speed up the process.
>
>2) Stop writing
>
>This has the same result as dying, but the author can witness the
>diminishing of royalties.
>
>3) Go out of favor
>
>Being dropped by publishers is similar to stop writing, but more
>frustrating. I believe that one or two regular posters to
>rec.arts.sf.written could address this from personal experience.
>
>* While not an expert, I can think of 2 other names (Christopher Marlowe
>and Ben Jonson).
Beaumont and Fletcher.
>Some say that women have a built-in "advantage" for this, but the
>following applies to everybody. Any author who encounters any of the
>following is very likely to be completely forgotten.
>
>1) Die
>
>This means no more books and thus, an every decreasing number of
>reprints (though the rate depends on just how big a presence and
>backlist the author left behind). True, if the presence is big enough,
>there is a chance that the author will be the sole survivor of an entire
>literary field (after all, other than experts, who* can name 1590-1630
>English playwrights not named Shakespeare). Not writing a will (with the
>naming of a literary executor), even though suffering from a chronic
>illness known to cut years off lifespans this leaving the estate to
>relatives who despise that work, will speed up the process.
>
>2) Stop writing
>
>This has the same result as dying, but the author can witness the
>diminishing of royalties.
>
>3) Go out of favor
>
>Being dropped by publishers is similar to stop writing, but more
>frustrating. I believe that one or two regular posters to
>rec.arts.sf.written could address this from personal experience.
>
>* While not an expert, I can think of 2 other names (Christopher Marlowe
>and Ben Jonson).
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Moriarty
Jan 25, 2018, 5:18:42 PM1/25/18
to
On Friday, January 26, 2018 at 5:25:13 AM UTC+11, Robert Woodward wrote:
<snips>
> 1) Die
-Moriarty
<snips>
> 1) Die
>
> Not writing a will (with the
> naming of a literary executor), even though suffering from a chronic
> illness known to cut years off lifespans this leaving the estate to
> relatives who despise that work, will speed up the process.
Did you have anyone particular in mind when you wrote this?
> Not writing a will (with the
> naming of a literary executor), even though suffering from a chronic
> illness known to cut years off lifespans this leaving the estate to
> relatives who despise that work, will speed up the process.
-Moriarty
Ahasuerus
Jan 25, 2018, 5:38:40 PM1/25/18
to
comes to mind:
"It is to be regretted that his biological family, disapproving of his
genre work, is where possible suppressing any reprints."
Dorothy J Heydt
Jan 25, 2018, 6:00:07 PM1/25/18
to
In article <df27263e-3862-42fe...@googlegroups.com>,
I don't know whom Robert had in mind, but H. Beam Piper comes to
my mind. At the time he committed suicide, despairing and intestate,
his agent was *trying to find him* because she had some money for
him.
my mind. At the time he committed suicide, despairing and intestate,
his agent was *trying to find him* because she had some money for
him.
Ahasuerus
Jan 25, 2018, 6:26:00 PM1/25/18
to
"What had happened? [Piper's agent and friend Ken] White had died of
cancer in early October 1964, barely a month before Piper's suicide.
His literary agency was basically a one-man business, and he had tried
to keep it going for as long as he could. Many of his clients were
personal friends who had wanted to show their loyalty by sticking with
him. There was not much time between his final notice to them that they
had better find new agents, and his death.
Piper had been struggling with a deteriorating personal situation for
over a year. In addition to having what was a potentially very popular
series sabotaged by his publisher [Avon], he had gone through a hostile
divorce – the sort in which his wife had taken as much of his assets as
she could. He was a heavy drinker. And, according to his close friends,
he was developing fits of acute depression, during which he felt that
he was a failure, that he had run out of ideas, that the continuing
favorable fan letters and reviews were a well-meant but patronizing
attempt to be kind to him. On top of this, his longtime agent and friend
had just died, leaving his business records in a mess, forcing Piper to
look for a new agent when he did not know himself what final obligations
White may have contracted for him. Piper was a proud man – his stories
had always featured strong, self-reliant heroes – and apparently he
could not bear the thought that it was about to become obvious to the
public that he desperately needed financial help. Even though he had
many friends who would have been glad to give him that help, he chose
to deliberately shoot himself to "clean up his own mess" [as his suicide
note stated]."
Dimensional Traveler
Jan 25, 2018, 6:30:37 PM1/25/18
to
develop.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
David DeLaney
Jan 25, 2018, 9:59:43 PM1/25/18
to
On 2018-01-25, Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com> wrote:
> Some say that women have a built-in "advantage" for this, but the
> following applies to everybody. Any author who encounters any of the
> following is very likely to be completely forgotten.
Was.
> Some say that women have a built-in "advantage" for this, but the
> following applies to everybody. Any author who encounters any of the
> following is very likely to be completely forgotten.
> 1) Die
>
> This means no more books and thus, an every decreasing number of
> reprints (though the rate depends on just how big a presence and
> backlist the author left behind).
works and offering them along with current authors', to catch the long tail of
royalty payments, viable in a business model. It's not the Singularity yet --
but look at youtube, for example.
> (after all, other than experts, who* can name 1590-1630
> English playwrights not named Shakespeare).
playwright, so you do get some points there.
> Not writing a will (with the
> naming of a literary executor), even though suffering from a chronic
> illness known to cut years off lifespans this leaving the estate to
> relatives who despise that work, will speed up the process.
> 2) Stop writing
>
> This has the same result as dying, but the author can witness the
> diminishing of royalties.
if their books are e-vailable.
> 3) Go out of favor
>
> Being dropped by publishers is similar to stop writing, but more
> frustrating. I believe that one or two regular posters to
> rec.arts.sf.written could address this from personal experience.
as mentioned by others: REALLY easy self-publishing. So easy that, with minimal
assistance, Dorothy Heydt can do it... so YOU, whoever you are, dear author,
have little excuse.
> * While not an expert, I can think of 2 other names (Christopher Marlowe
> and Ben Jonson).
Dave, and the palace under Londinium lurketh
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Dorothy J Heydt
Jan 25, 2018, 10:45:06 PM1/25/18
to
In article <YLadnbPbRfMKBPfH...@earthlink.com>,
After some twenty years of people telling me why didn't I.
Because I grew up in an age when tooting your own horn,
particularly if female, was the sin against the Holy Ghost. I
still couldn't have done it without Bill Gill.
BTW, _A Point of Honor_ will, God willing, eventually go online;
I'm waiting for a friend to do the "cover."
I still can't figure out why an e-book has to have a "cover," but
apparently it does.
Because I grew up in an age when tooting your own horn,
particularly if female, was the sin against the Holy Ghost. I
still couldn't have done it without Bill Gill.
BTW, _A Point of Honor_ will, God willing, eventually go online;
I'm waiting for a friend to do the "cover."
I still can't figure out why an e-book has to have a "cover," but
apparently it does.
James Nicoll
Jan 25, 2018, 11:06:26 PM1/25/18
to
In article <p3586...@kithrup.com>,
fussy about cover art. Happily, the calibre ebook manager makes it easy
to swap in the art I associate with each book.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>
>I still can't figure out why an e-book has to have a "cover," but
>apparently it does.
No only am I happier when my ebooks have covers, it turns out I am super-
>
>I still can't figure out why an e-book has to have a "cover," but
>apparently it does.
fussy about cover art. Happily, the calibre ebook manager makes it easy
to swap in the art I associate with each book.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Quadibloc
Jan 25, 2018, 11:58:11 PM1/25/18
to
On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 8:45:06 PM UTC-7, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> I still can't figure out why an e-book has to have a "cover," but
> apparently it does.
You are certainly correct that an E-book doesn't need to worry about its title
> I still can't figure out why an e-book has to have a "cover," but
> apparently it does.
page getting soiled or dog-eared without protection from handling and the
elements.
The E-book reader on my smartphone (EBookDroid), however, displays thumbnail
images of the first page of each E-book in the directories it makes available.
Some of those E-books are digitizations of public-domain hardcovers, in which
the cover is reproduced as the first page.
A cover is more distinctive than a title page for picking a book out of a series
of thumbnails like that.
As EBookDroid is not unique in this respect, but instead the interfaces of many
popular E-book readers work that way by default, it has become the convention to
include a "cover page" at the beginning of works originally created as E-books.
Note, however, that a _back_ cover is indeed not needed, and may be omitted.
John Savard
David Johnston
Jan 26, 2018, 12:21:58 AM1/26/18
to
art either.
Dorothy J Heydt
Jan 26, 2018, 12:30:06 AM1/26/18
to
In article <p4e9g0$pq9$1...@reader2.panix.com>,
The cover _APoH_ had in the DAW edition was, I consider, really
cool. You can swap that in on your own copy if you want to. But
I can't put it online for everybody else; it doesn't belong to
me.
The cover my friend is going to do for _APoH_ is Sir Mary's arms:
Sable, within an orle of lighted candles proper, a sun in his
splendor or. But she's got Life .....
James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <p3586...@kithrup.com>,
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>
>>I still can't figure out why an e-book has to have a "cover," but
>>apparently it does.
>
>No only am I happier when my ebooks have covers, it turns out I am super-
>fussy about cover art. Happily, the calibre ebook manager makes it easy
>to swap in the art I associate with each book.
Well, that's nice.
>In article <p3586...@kithrup.com>,
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>
>>I still can't figure out why an e-book has to have a "cover," but
>>apparently it does.
>
>No only am I happier when my ebooks have covers, it turns out I am super-
>fussy about cover art. Happily, the calibre ebook manager makes it easy
>to swap in the art I associate with each book.
The cover _APoH_ had in the DAW edition was, I consider, really
cool. You can swap that in on your own copy if you want to. But
I can't put it online for everybody else; it doesn't belong to
me.
The cover my friend is going to do for _APoH_ is Sir Mary's arms:
Sable, within an orle of lighted candles proper, a sun in his
splendor or. But she's got Life .....
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Jan 26, 2018, 12:50:57 AM1/26/18
to
In article <p4edtj$16d9$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,
As proved many times in the 1970s..
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Ninapenda Jibini
Jan 26, 2018, 1:09:55 AM1/26/18
to
David Johnston <davidjo...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:p4edtj$16d9$1...@gioia.aioe.org:
Not a reason you care about, perhaps, but Marketing would disagree.
And while cover *art* is not, practically speaking, needed (once
you've got the book), an actual physical cover *is* highly
desirable. So once you have that, it's a useful place to put the
picture that Marketing wants to catch the eye anyway.
(And a lot of books even today don't actually have cover *art*.
Mostly, cheap-ass reprints of public domain stuff. A lot of ebooks
don't, either.)
--
Terry Austin
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
news:p4edtj$16d9$1...@gioia.aioe.org:
And while cover *art* is not, practically speaking, needed (once
you've got the book), an actual physical cover *is* highly
desirable. So once you have that, it's a useful place to put the
picture that Marketing wants to catch the eye anyway.
(And a lot of books even today don't actually have cover *art*.
Mostly, cheap-ass reprints of public domain stuff. A lot of ebooks
don't, either.)
--
Terry Austin
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Dan Tilque
Jan 26, 2018, 3:38:30 AM1/26/18
to
Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <robertaw-5D15E5...@news.individual.net>,
> Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com> wrote:
>> True, if the presence is big enough,
>> there is a chance that the author will be the sole survivor of an entire
>> literary field (after all, other than experts, who* can name 1590-1630
>> English playwrights not named Shakespeare).
>>
> In article <robertaw-5D15E5...@news.individual.net>,
> Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com> wrote:
>> True, if the presence is big enough,
>> there is a chance that the author will be the sole survivor of an entire
>> literary field (after all, other than experts, who* can name 1590-1630
>> English playwrights not named Shakespeare).
>>
>> * While not an expert, I can think of 2 other names (Christopher Marlowe
>> and Ben Jonson).
>
> Beaumont and Fletcher.
>
Edmund Spenser.
>> and Ben Jonson).
>
> Beaumont and Fletcher.
>
--
Dan Tilque
Bill Gill
Jan 26, 2018, 9:12:32 AM1/26/18
to
On 1/25/2018 10:06 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <p3586...@kithrup.com>,
> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>
>> I still can't figure out why an e-book has to have a "cover," but
>> apparently it does.
>
> No only am I happier when my ebooks have covers, it turns out I am super-
> fussy about cover art. Happily, the calibre ebook manager makes it easy
> to swap in the art I associate with each book.
>
>
Yep, I have no problem with getting a cover on an ebook when I
> In article <p3586...@kithrup.com>,
> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>
>> I still can't figure out why an e-book has to have a "cover," but
>> apparently it does.
>
> No only am I happier when my ebooks have covers, it turns out I am super-
> fussy about cover art. Happily, the calibre ebook manager makes it easy
> to swap in the art I associate with each book.
>
>
convert it. The problem in Dorothy's case is just getting the
cover. We can't use the original cover on the book because it
is in copyright. Dorothy is trying to get a new cover from
her friend. After that it should be easy to finish it up.
I made a cover for her first book, but I'm not an artist. I
can cut and paste images together if they aren't too complex,
but that is as far as I can go. For 'Point' I can't come
up with anything that is easy to do.
Bill
Bill Gill
Jan 26, 2018, 9:16:18 AM1/26/18
to
not for distribution, I include the front and back covers, as
well as all the front matter. This is purely my own way of
doing things. Since it won't be distributed outside my own
world I could do it without any kind of info except the text.
Bill
Bill Gill
Jan 26, 2018, 9:17:58 AM1/26/18
to
on the dust cover. When the dust cover is gone the book itself
is rather drab.
Bill
Dorothy J Heydt
Jan 26, 2018, 10:00:05 AM1/26/18
to
Gene Wirchenko
Jan 26, 2018, 12:57:54 PM1/26/18
to
On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 10:25:06 -0800, Robert Woodward
<robe...@drizzle.com> wrote:
>Some say that women have a built-in "advantage" for this, but the
>following applies to everybody. Any author who encounters any of the
>following is very likely to be completely forgotten.
>
>1) Die
>
>This means no more books and thus, an every decreasing number of
>reprints (though the rate depends on just how big a presence and
>backlist the author left behind). True, if the presence is big enough,
>there is a chance that the author will be the sole survivor of an entire
>literary field (after all, other than experts, who* can name 1590-1630
>English playwrights not named Shakespeare). Not writing a will (with the
>naming of a literary executor), even though suffering from a chronic
>illness known to cut years off lifespans this leaving the estate to
>relatives who despise that work, will speed up the process.
[snip]
<robe...@drizzle.com> wrote:
>Some say that women have a built-in "advantage" for this, but the
>following applies to everybody. Any author who encounters any of the
>following is very likely to be completely forgotten.
>
>1) Die
>
>This means no more books and thus, an every decreasing number of
>reprints (though the rate depends on just how big a presence and
>backlist the author left behind). True, if the presence is big enough,
>there is a chance that the author will be the sole survivor of an entire
>literary field (after all, other than experts, who* can name 1590-1630
>English playwrights not named Shakespeare). Not writing a will (with the
>naming of a literary executor), even though suffering from a chronic
>illness known to cut years off lifespans this leaving the estate to
>relatives who despise that work, will speed up the process.
>* While not an expert, I can think of 2 other names (Christopher Marlowe
>and Ben Jonson).
the reason I remembered Marlowe was because of the theories about who
Shakespeare really was. So it makes your point.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Dorothy J Heydt
Jan 26, 2018, 2:15:10 PM1/26/18
to
In article <p36FA...@kithrup.com>,
>ObSF: in one of de Camp's Viagens Interplanetarias stories (I
>forget which one), the protagonists briefly listen to a paper
>read before a society dedicated to proving that George Bernard
>Shaw didn't write any of the plays attributed to him. The
>preferred candidate? Winston Churchill.
>
>Obfurther SF: In _Rocket to the Morgue_, a Tuckerized Robert
>Heinlein mentions a story by Churchill, "If Lee Had Lost at
>Gettysburg." I'd love to find a copy.
Edit: I googled and discovered that it's actually called "If Lee
Had Not Won the Battle of Gettysburg." And here it is.
https://www.winstonchurchill.org/publications/finest-hour-extras/qif-lee-had-not-won-the-battle-of-gettysburgq/
>ObSF: in one of de Camp's Viagens Interplanetarias stories (I
>forget which one), the protagonists briefly listen to a paper
>read before a society dedicated to proving that George Bernard
>Shaw didn't write any of the plays attributed to him. The
>preferred candidate? Winston Churchill.
>
>Obfurther SF: In _Rocket to the Morgue_, a Tuckerized Robert
>Heinlein mentions a story by Churchill, "If Lee Had Lost at
>Gettysburg." I'd love to find a copy.
Edit: I googled and discovered that it's actually called "If Lee
Had Not Won the Battle of Gettysburg." And here it is.
https://www.winstonchurchill.org/publications/finest-hour-extras/qif-lee-had-not-won-the-battle-of-gettysburgq/
Dorothy J Heydt
Jan 26, 2018, 2:15:10 PM1/26/18
to
In article <9tqm6d160rhg3gn5p...@4ax.com>,
Oh, if it comes to those theories, then you must include Francis
Bacon and the Earl of Oxford. And probably others whose names
escape me.
Shakespeare came from rural Warwickshire and didn't have a
university education. How could *HE* possibly write anything
decent? I don't know if Queen Elizabeth I was among the
contenders, but it wouldn't surprise me.
ObSF: in one of de Camp's Viagens Interplanetarias stories (I
forget which one), the protagonists briefly listen to a paper
read before a society dedicated to proving that George Bernard
Shaw didn't write any of the plays attributed to him. The
preferred candidate? Winston Churchill.
Obfurther SF: In _Rocket to the Morgue_, a Tuckerized Robert
Heinlein mentions a story by Churchill, "If Lee Had Lost at
Gettysburg." I'd love to find a copy.
Bacon and the Earl of Oxford. And probably others whose names
escape me.
Shakespeare came from rural Warwickshire and didn't have a
university education. How could *HE* possibly write anything
decent? I don't know if Queen Elizabeth I was among the
contenders, but it wouldn't surprise me.
ObSF: in one of de Camp's Viagens Interplanetarias stories (I
forget which one), the protagonists briefly listen to a paper
read before a society dedicated to proving that George Bernard
Shaw didn't write any of the plays attributed to him. The
preferred candidate? Winston Churchill.
Obfurther SF: In _Rocket to the Morgue_, a Tuckerized Robert
Heinlein mentions a story by Churchill, "If Lee Had Lost at
Gettysburg." I'd love to find a copy.
Robert Carnegie
Jan 26, 2018, 3:42:27 PM1/26/18
to
I had some trouble thinking of a living playwright. (Gbz Fgbccneq)
I got some recently dead ones. I'm not counting Andrew Lloyd Webber
as either.
I've paid to see a show by Zvpunry Senla - I think I paid...
I got some recently dead ones. I'm not counting Andrew Lloyd Webber
as either.
I've paid to see a show by Zvpunry Senla - I think I paid...
Joy Beeson
Jan 26, 2018, 5:15:46 PM1/26/18
to
On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 20:59:35 -0600, David DeLaney
<davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Here a different current phenomenon (doo du, du dudu) is taking up the slack,
> as mentioned by others: REALLY easy self-publishing. So easy that, with minimal
> assistance, Dorothy Heydt can do it... so YOU, whoever you are, dear author,
> have little excuse.
Publishing is easy. Getting paid isn't.
<davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Here a different current phenomenon (doo du, du dudu) is taking up the slack,
> as mentioned by others: REALLY easy self-publishing. So easy that, with minimal
> assistance, Dorothy Heydt can do it... so YOU, whoever you are, dear author,
> have little excuse.
I got a fan letter yesterday, though. I got one last year, too.
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Jan 26, 2018, 5:57:07 PM1/26/18
to
Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote in
news:ii6n6dls20rad4pn0...@4ax.com:
> On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 20:59:35 -0600, David DeLaney
> <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Here a different current phenomenon (doo du, du dudu) is taking
>> up the slack, as mentioned by others: REALLY easy
>> self-publishing. So easy that, with minimal assistance, Dorothy
>> Heydt can do it... so YOU, whoever you are, dear author, have
>> little excuse.
>
> Publishing is easy. Getting paid isn't.
>
> I got a fan letter yesterday, though. I got one last year, too.
>
It's just as easy to get paid as it is to self publish through one of
hte big sites like Amazon. The trick is getting people to buy your
stuff.
--
Terry Austin
Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
news:ii6n6dls20rad4pn0...@4ax.com:
> On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 20:59:35 -0600, David DeLaney
> <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Here a different current phenomenon (doo du, du dudu) is taking
>> up the slack, as mentioned by others: REALLY easy
>> self-publishing. So easy that, with minimal assistance, Dorothy
>> Heydt can do it... so YOU, whoever you are, dear author, have
>> little excuse.
>
> Publishing is easy. Getting paid isn't.
>
> I got a fan letter yesterday, though. I got one last year, too.
>
hte big sites like Amazon. The trick is getting people to buy your
stuff.
--
Terry Austin
Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Lynn McGuire
Jan 26, 2018, 6:16:01 PM1/26/18
to
On 1/26/2018 3:57 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote in
> news:ii6n6dls20rad4pn0...@4ax.com:
>
>> On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 20:59:35 -0600, David DeLaney
>> <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Here a different current phenomenon (doo du, du dudu) is taking
>>> up the slack, as mentioned by others: REALLY easy
>>> self-publishing. So easy that, with minimal assistance, Dorothy
>>> Heydt can do it... so YOU, whoever you are, dear author, have
>>> little excuse.
>>
>> Publishing is easy. Getting paid isn't.
>>
>> I got a fan letter yesterday, though. I got one last year, too.
>>
> It's just as easy to get paid as it is to self publish through one of
> hte big sites like Amazon. The trick is getting people to buy your
> stuff.
Simple. Write apocalyptic survival fiction. And yes, there is a lot of
> Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote in
> news:ii6n6dls20rad4pn0...@4ax.com:
>
>> On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 20:59:35 -0600, David DeLaney
>> <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Here a different current phenomenon (doo du, du dudu) is taking
>>> up the slack, as mentioned by others: REALLY easy
>>> self-publishing. So easy that, with minimal assistance, Dorothy
>>> Heydt can do it... so YOU, whoever you are, dear author, have
>>> little excuse.
>>
>> Publishing is easy. Getting paid isn't.
>>
>> I got a fan letter yesterday, though. I got one last year, too.
>>
> It's just as easy to get paid as it is to self publish through one of
> hte big sites like Amazon. The trick is getting people to buy your
> stuff.
crap out there.
Lynn
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Jan 26, 2018, 6:27:56 PM1/26/18
to
Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:p4gcrf$mpe$1...@dont-email.me:
Or gay alien dinosaur bondage porn, I suppose. Or "Pounded In The
Butt By My Book "Pounded In The Butt By My Own Butt"" (and it's
additionally recursive sequels).
news:p4gcrf$mpe$1...@dont-email.me:
Butt By My Book "Pounded In The Butt By My Own Butt"" (and it's
additionally recursive sequels).
Dorothy J Heydt
Jan 26, 2018, 7:45:05 PM1/26/18
to
In article <XnsA8769D51445...@69.16.179.43>,
three sexes, one of them a tree. I don't know if I could bring
it off.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote in
>news:p4gcrf$mpe$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 1/26/2018 3:57 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote in
>>> news:ii6n6dls20rad4pn0...@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 20:59:35 -0600, David DeLaney
>>>> <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Here a different current phenomenon (doo du, du dudu) is
>>>>> taking up the slack, as mentioned by others: REALLY easy
>>>>> self-publishing. So easy that, with minimal assistance,
>>>>> Dorothy Heydt can do it... so YOU, whoever you are, dear
>>>>> author, have little excuse.
>>>>
>>>> Publishing is easy. Getting paid isn't.
>>>>
>>>> I got a fan letter yesterday, though. I got one last year,
>>>> too.
>>>>
>>> It's just as easy to get paid as it is to self publish through
>>> one of hte big sites like Amazon. The trick is getting people
>>> to buy your stuff.
>>
>> Simple. Write apocalyptic survival fiction. And yes, there is
>> a lot of crap out there.
>>
>Or gay alien dinosaur bondage porn, I suppose.
Hm. I had an idea once for a story involving alien sex once --
>Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote in
>news:p4gcrf$mpe$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 1/26/2018 3:57 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote in
>>> news:ii6n6dls20rad4pn0...@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 20:59:35 -0600, David DeLaney
>>>> <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Here a different current phenomenon (doo du, du dudu) is
>>>>> taking up the slack, as mentioned by others: REALLY easy
>>>>> self-publishing. So easy that, with minimal assistance,
>>>>> Dorothy Heydt can do it... so YOU, whoever you are, dear
>>>>> author, have little excuse.
>>>>
>>>> Publishing is easy. Getting paid isn't.
>>>>
>>>> I got a fan letter yesterday, though. I got one last year,
>>>> too.
>>>>
>>> It's just as easy to get paid as it is to self publish through
>>> one of hte big sites like Amazon. The trick is getting people
>>> to buy your stuff.
>>
>> Simple. Write apocalyptic survival fiction. And yes, there is
>> a lot of crap out there.
>>
>Or gay alien dinosaur bondage porn, I suppose.
three sexes, one of them a tree. I don't know if I could bring
it off.
Dorothy J Heydt
Jan 26, 2018, 7:45:05 PM1/26/18
to
In article <ii6n6dls20rad4pn0...@4ax.com>,
don't now. _Point_ got more than a thousand downloads, though. :)
Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 20:59:35 -0600, David DeLaney
><davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Here a different current phenomenon (doo du, du dudu) is taking up the slack,
>> as mentioned by others: REALLY easy self-publishing. So easy that,
>with minimal
>> assistance, Dorothy Heydt can do it... so YOU, whoever you are, dear author,
>> have little excuse.
>
>Publishing is easy. Getting paid isn't.
>
>I got a fan letter yesterday, though. I got one last year, too.
I got fanmail (very occasionally) when my books were in print. I
>On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 20:59:35 -0600, David DeLaney
><davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Here a different current phenomenon (doo du, du dudu) is taking up the slack,
>> as mentioned by others: REALLY easy self-publishing. So easy that,
>with minimal
>> assistance, Dorothy Heydt can do it... so YOU, whoever you are, dear author,
>> have little excuse.
>
>Publishing is easy. Getting paid isn't.
>
>I got a fan letter yesterday, though. I got one last year, too.
don't now. _Point_ got more than a thousand downloads, though. :)
Dorothy J Heydt
Jan 26, 2018, 7:45:05 PM1/26/18
to
In article <p4gcrf$mpe$1...@dont-email.me>,
You mean, like _Farnham's Freehold_? I didn't think that was
particularly successful, as Heinleins go. I could be mistaken.
And yes, there is a lot of
>crap out there.
Like _Farnham's Freehold._
particularly successful, as Heinleins go. I could be mistaken.
And yes, there is a lot of
>crap out there.
Robert Carnegie
Jan 26, 2018, 7:49:30 PM1/26/18
to
Lynn McGuire
Jan 26, 2018, 8:17:45 PM1/26/18
to
Lynn
Lynn McGuire
Jan 26, 2018, 8:25:50 PM1/26/18
to
books. The least one is over 300 reviews. One has over 1,600 reviews.
https://www.amazon.com/Going-Home-Novel-Survivalist-Book-ebook/dp/B00DMBMRYQ/
https://www.amazon.com/36-Hours-Post-Apocalyptic-Survival-Blackout/dp/1536964298/
https://www.amazon.com/Once-Upon-Apocalypse-Journey-Revised/dp/1946321001/
https://www.amazon.com/Borrowed-World-Novel-Post-Apocalyptic-Collapse/dp/1511974419/
https://www.amazon.com/Survivalist-Frontier-Justice-Arthur-Bradley/dp/148274631X/
https://www.amazon.com/Jakarta-Pandemic-Steven-Konkoly/dp/1495907376/
There are more. Many more. Several of these writers have quit their
day jobs and taken up full time writing and self promotion.
Lynn
David Goldfarb
Jan 26, 2018, 8:30:03 PM1/26/18
to
--
David Goldfarb |"Sunset over Houma. The rains have stopped.
goldf...@gmail.com | Clouds like plugs of bloodied cotton wool dab
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | ineffectually at the slashed wrists of the sky."
| -- Alan Moore
David Johnston
Jan 26, 2018, 8:31:33 PM1/26/18
to
On 2018-01-26 5:17 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <p4gcrf$mpe$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 1/26/2018 3:57 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote in
>>> news:ii6n6dls20rad4pn0...@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 20:59:35 -0600, David DeLaney
>>>> <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Here a different current phenomenon (doo du, du dudu) is taking
>>>>> up the slack, as mentioned by others: REALLY easy
>>>>> self-publishing. So easy that, with minimal assistance, Dorothy
>>>>> Heydt can do it... so YOU, whoever you are, dear author, have
>>>>> little excuse.
>>>>
>>>> Publishing is easy. Getting paid isn't.
>>>>
>>>> I got a fan letter yesterday, though. I got one last year, too.
>>>>
>>> It's just as easy to get paid as it is to self publish through one of
>>> hte big sites like Amazon. The trick is getting people to buy your
>>> stuff.
>>
>> Simple. Write apocalyptic survival fiction.
>
> You mean, like _Farnham's Freehold_? I didn't think that was
> particularly successful, as Heinleins go. I could be mistaken.
Nope. Farnham's Freehold wasn't survival fiction. They went from one
> In article <p4gcrf$mpe$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 1/26/2018 3:57 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote in
>>> news:ii6n6dls20rad4pn0...@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 20:59:35 -0600, David DeLaney
>>>> <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Here a different current phenomenon (doo du, du dudu) is taking
>>>>> up the slack, as mentioned by others: REALLY easy
>>>>> self-publishing. So easy that, with minimal assistance, Dorothy
>>>>> Heydt can do it... so YOU, whoever you are, dear author, have
>>>>> little excuse.
>>>>
>>>> Publishing is easy. Getting paid isn't.
>>>>
>>>> I got a fan letter yesterday, though. I got one last year, too.
>>>>
>>> It's just as easy to get paid as it is to self publish through one of
>>> hte big sites like Amazon. The trick is getting people to buy your
>>> stuff.
>>
>> Simple. Write apocalyptic survival fiction.
>
> You mean, like _Farnham's Freehold_? I didn't think that was
> particularly successful, as Heinleins go. I could be mistaken.
civilized world to another civilized world.
Ninapenda Jibini
Jan 26, 2018, 10:33:49 PM1/26/18
to
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
news:p36u8...@kithrup.com:
You're no Chuck Tingle. (You should be grateful for that, though
Mr. Tingle seems quite successful and happy about it. But you're no
Chuck Tingle.)
--
Terry Austin
news:p36u8...@kithrup.com:
Mr. Tingle seems quite successful and happy about it. But you're no
Chuck Tingle.)
--
Terry Austin
Lynn McGuire
Jan 26, 2018, 10:47:13 PM1/26/18
to
Lynn
D B Davis
Jan 26, 2018, 11:12:28 PM1/26/18
to
beyond my abilities. Nonetheless, your recall of Francis Bacon is
prescient in regards to my followup. (You might say that it's a handy
excuse for my followup.)
_New Atlantis_ (Bacon, 1627) occupies the second position in the
"Chronology" section of my _Cambridge Companion to SF_ (James,
Mendlesohn). _Utopia_ (More, 1516) precedes the Bacon and _A Dream_
(Kepler, 1624) follows it.
As an aside, my copy of _Somnium_ (AKA _A Dream_) is an English
translation. It contains 19 pages of Kepler's short story, followed by
145 pages of Kepler's notes on the short story, followed by thirteen
appendices. It's one "heavy" short story, as Dorothy already knows.
Let's get back to the name-that-playwright game. Richard Greene's
a contemporary of Shakespeare. Greene's name always eludes me.
Ironically, Greene's wit always remains close at hand, probably due to
its snarky lulz. Greene's catty words about Shakespeare appear in the
"Prefatory Remarks" section of my Signet Classic Shakespeare MMPBs.
There is an upstart crow, beautified with our feathers,
that in his /tiger's heart wrapped in a player's hide/
supposes he is as well able to bombast out a blank verse
as the best of you, and being an absolute Johannes-factorum
is in his own conceit the only Shake-scene in a country.
The reference to the player, as well as the allusion to Aesop's
crow (who strutted in borrowed plumage, as an actor struts in
fine words not his own), makes it clear that by [1592]
Shakespeare had both acted and written. That Shakespeare is
meant is indicated not only by "Shake-scene" but by the parody
of a line from one of Shakespeare's plays, /3 Henry VI/: "O,
tiger's heart wrapped in a woman's hide." If Shakespeare in
1592 was prominent enough to be attacked by an envious
dramatist, he probably had served an apprenticeship in the
theater for at least a few years.
Thank you,
--
Don
When the power of love replaces the love of power there will be peace.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Jan 27, 2018, 12:11:14 AM1/27/18
to
In article <p36u8...@kithrup.com>,
Were you anyone else, I would say "I see what you did there.."
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Robert Woodward
Jan 27, 2018, 12:59:37 AM1/27/18
to
Light_ by Melissa Scott and Lisa A. Barnett.
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
-------------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robe...@drizzle.com
Dorothy J Heydt
Jan 27, 2018, 1:00:04 AM1/27/18
to
Dorothy J Heydt
Jan 27, 2018, 1:00:04 AM1/27/18
to
In article <p4gkp7$otc$2...@gioia.aioe.org>,
And back to their own world just in time for the bomb to fall.
The last chapter is pure, super-optimistic survival fiction.
The last chapter is pure, super-optimistic survival fiction.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Jan 27, 2018, 1:13:21 AM1/27/18
to
In article <robertaw-56D642...@news.individual.net>,
Oh, he gets around more than that.
He's a fairly high level vampire supporting character in Karen
Chance's Cassie Palmer (and related) books.
He's a supporting underworld/spy character in an alternate Spanish Armada
book that I didn't like.
I believe he also figured in Turtledove's _Ruled Britannia_.
He's a fairly high level vampire supporting character in Karen
Chance's Cassie Palmer (and related) books.
He's a supporting underworld/spy character in an alternate Spanish Armada
book that I didn't like.
I believe he also figured in Turtledove's _Ruled Britannia_.
Robert Woodward
Jan 27, 2018, 1:15:48 AM1/27/18
to
In article <p36FA...@kithrup.com>,
> >
> >>* While not an expert, I can think of 2 other names (Christopher Marlowe
> >>and Ben Jonson).
> >
> > I thought of Marlowe myself. I am hardly an expert. However,
> >the reason I remembered Marlowe was because of the theories about who
> >Shakespeare really was. So it makes your point.
>
(Snip)
reprinted in 1991 in the anthology _What Might have Been, Volume 3:
Alternate Wars_. There was a 2005 reprint of that anthology as
_Alternate Wars_.
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
ã-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robe...@drizzle.com
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> In article <9tqm6d160rhg3gn5p...@4ax.com>,
> Gene Wirchenko <ge...@telus.net> wrote:
> >On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 10:25:06 -0800, Robert Woodward
(Snip, a footnote referring to English playwrights 1590-1630)
> In article <9tqm6d160rhg3gn5p...@4ax.com>,
> Gene Wirchenko <ge...@telus.net> wrote:
> >On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 10:25:06 -0800, Robert Woodward
> >
> >>* While not an expert, I can think of 2 other names (Christopher Marlowe
> >>and Ben Jonson).
> >
> > I thought of Marlowe myself. I am hardly an expert. However,
> >the reason I remembered Marlowe was because of the theories about who
> >Shakespeare really was. So it makes your point.
>
>
> Obfurther SF: In _Rocket to the Morgue_, a Tuckerized Robert
> Heinlein mentions a story by Churchill, "If Lee Had Lost at
> Gettysburg." I'd love to find a copy.
The title is "If Lee Had Not Won the Battle of Gettysburg"; it was
> Obfurther SF: In _Rocket to the Morgue_, a Tuckerized Robert
> Heinlein mentions a story by Churchill, "If Lee Had Lost at
> Gettysburg." I'd love to find a copy.
reprinted in 1991 in the anthology _What Might have Been, Volume 3:
Alternate Wars_. There was a 2005 reprint of that anthology as
_Alternate Wars_.
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
Robert Woodward robe...@drizzle.com
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Jan 27, 2018, 1:32:46 AM1/27/18
to
In article <robertaw-4973FB...@news.individual.net>,
https://www.winstonchurchill.org/publications/finest-hour-extras/qif-lee-had-not-won-the-battle-of-gettysburgq/
https://tinyurl.com/ycjh8yzc
Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com> wrote:
>In article <p36FA...@kithrup.com>,
> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>
>> In article <9tqm6d160rhg3gn5p...@4ax.com>,
>> Gene Wirchenko <ge...@telus.net> wrote:
>> >On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 10:25:06 -0800, Robert Woodward
>
>(Snip, a footnote referring to English playwrights 1590-1630)
>
>> >
>> >>* While not an expert, I can think of 2 other names (Christopher Marlowe
>> >>and Ben Jonson).
>> >
>> > I thought of Marlowe myself. I am hardly an expert. However,
>> >the reason I remembered Marlowe was because of the theories about who
>> >Shakespeare really was. So it makes your point.
>>
>(Snip)
>>
>> Obfurther SF: In _Rocket to the Morgue_, a Tuckerized Robert
>> Heinlein mentions a story by Churchill, "If Lee Had Lost at
>> Gettysburg." I'd love to find a copy.
>
>The title is "If Lee Had Not Won the Battle of Gettysburg"; it was
>reprinted in 1991 in the anthology _What Might have Been, Volume 3:
>Alternate Wars_. There was a 2005 reprint of that anthology as
>_Alternate Wars_.
>
>--
And it is (legally) online here:
>In article <p36FA...@kithrup.com>,
> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>
>> In article <9tqm6d160rhg3gn5p...@4ax.com>,
>> Gene Wirchenko <ge...@telus.net> wrote:
>> >On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 10:25:06 -0800, Robert Woodward
>
>(Snip, a footnote referring to English playwrights 1590-1630)
>
>> >
>> >>* While not an expert, I can think of 2 other names (Christopher Marlowe
>> >>and Ben Jonson).
>> >
>> > I thought of Marlowe myself. I am hardly an expert. However,
>> >the reason I remembered Marlowe was because of the theories about who
>> >Shakespeare really was. So it makes your point.
>>
>(Snip)
>>
>> Obfurther SF: In _Rocket to the Morgue_, a Tuckerized Robert
>> Heinlein mentions a story by Churchill, "If Lee Had Lost at
>> Gettysburg." I'd love to find a copy.
>
>The title is "If Lee Had Not Won the Battle of Gettysburg"; it was
>reprinted in 1991 in the anthology _What Might have Been, Volume 3:
>Alternate Wars_. There was a 2005 reprint of that anthology as
>_Alternate Wars_.
>
>--
https://www.winstonchurchill.org/publications/finest-hour-extras/qif-lee-had-not-won-the-battle-of-gettysburgq/
https://tinyurl.com/ycjh8yzc
Carl Fink
Jan 27, 2018, 8:51:22 AM1/27/18
to
On 2018-01-26, Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> Shakespeare came from rural Warwickshire and didn't have a
> university education. How could *HE* possibly write anything
> decent? I don't know if Queen Elizabeth I was among the
> contenders, but it wouldn't surprise me.
You're right, twice. A lot of it was definitely elitism, and Liz has been
> Shakespeare came from rural Warwickshire and didn't have a
> university education. How could *HE* possibly write anything
> decent? I don't know if Queen Elizabeth I was among the
> contenders, but it wouldn't surprise me.
bruited as the author, even of works first performed after her death.
I'm not sure how the conspiracy-mongers explain the known *collaborations*
of Shakespeare, though.
--
Carl Fink nitpi...@nitpicking.com
Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!
Juho Julkunen
Jan 27, 2018, 9:31:08 AM1/27/18
to
In article <XnsA876C7031F5FE...@69.16.179.42>,
taus...@gmail.com says...
Well, it's pretty obviously a pen name...
--
Juho Julkunen
taus...@gmail.com says...
--
Juho Julkunen
Robert Carnegie
Jan 27, 2018, 11:06:13 AM1/27/18
to
radio dramas in which he investigated plots. It's been repeated
occasionally. For sci-fi interest, I think that a Tudor super-gun,
an alchemist, an astronomer or maybe astrologer, and a terrifying
plague of insects appear, as well as the "nice-smelling flower"
theory of disease prevention, plague in particular.
Default User
Jan 27, 2018, 1:51:33 PM1/27/18
to
On Friday, January 26, 2018 at 4:57:07 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> It's just as easy to get paid as it is to self publish through one of
> hte big sites like Amazon. The trick is getting people to buy your
> stuff.
After I got the e-reading iPad, I researched a number of venues for e-books. One, hmmm, "interesting" source is SmashWords:
> It's just as easy to get paid as it is to self publish through one of
> hte big sites like Amazon. The trick is getting people to buy your
> stuff.
https://www.smashwords.com/about/how_to_publish_on_smashwords
I had looked at one woman's output there, something like 50 stories of various lengths and prices. These were mostly SF of one sort or another, and frequently had very bizarre descriptions.
I confess that I mocked her a bit on another forum. However, when I read her biography I realized that she was literally mentally ill (schizophrenic I believe) and doing the best she can. If writing makes her happy then what the hell business of mine is it? That being "not usenet" I could erase my comments.
Brian
Dimensional Traveler
Jan 27, 2018, 3:04:52 PM1/27/18
to
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Dorothy J Heydt
Jan 27, 2018, 4:45:07 PM1/27/18
to
In article <p4im12$1nn$2...@dont-email.me>,
Irrelevant. If you think a non-Christian would be offended by
"eat my flesh and drink my blood," imagine how it sounded to the
first-century Jews, with their pious adherence to the rules of
kashrut. It probably sounds pretty awful to contemporary Jews,
too.
If Jesus had been speaking to a present-day audience, he might
have used the analogy of what an unborn child does to its mother.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2014/05/science_for_mother_s_day_disturbing_biology_of_the_human_placenta.html
"eat my flesh and drink my blood," imagine how it sounded to the
first-century Jews, with their pious adherence to the rules of
kashrut. It probably sounds pretty awful to contemporary Jews,
too.
If Jesus had been speaking to a present-day audience, he might
have used the analogy of what an unborn child does to its mother.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2014/05/science_for_mother_s_day_disturbing_biology_of_the_human_placenta.html
Mark Bestley
Jan 27, 2018, 6:35:25 PM1/27/18
to
Ninapenda Jibini <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> David Johnston <davidjo...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:p4edtj$16d9$1...@gioia.aioe.org:
>
> > On 2018-01-25 8:25 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> In article <YLadnbPbRfMKBPfH...@earthlink.com>,
> >> David DeLaney <d...@vic.com> wrote:
> >>> storing an author's works and offering them along with current
> >>> authors', to catch the long tail of royalty payments, viable
> >>> in a business model. It's not the Singularity yet -- but look
> >>> at youtube, for example.
> >>> Johnson was a playwright, so you do get some points there.
> >>>
> >>>> 2) Stop writing
> >>>>
> >>>> This has the same result as dying, but the author can witness
> >>>> the diminishing of royalties.
> >>>
> >>> And these days is subject to the same "not forgotten, just
> >>> backgrounded" effect if their books are e-vailable.
> >>>
> >>>> 3) Go out of favor
> >>>>
> >>>> Being dropped by publishers is similar to stop writing, but
> >>>> more frustrating. I believe that one or two regular posters
> >>>> to rec.arts.sf.written could address this from personal
> >>>> experience.
> >> Because I grew up in an age when tooting your own horn,
> >> particularly if female, was the sin against the Holy Ghost. I
> >> still couldn't have done it without Bill Gill.
> >>
> >> BTW, _A Point of Honor_ will, God willing, eventually go
> >> online; I'm waiting for a friend to do the "cover."
> >>
> >> I still can't figure out why an e-book has to have a "cover,"
> >> but apparently it does.
> >>
> >
> > If you think about it, there's no reason why a physical book
> > needs cover art either.
>
> Not a reason you care about, perhaps, but Marketing would disagree.
> And while cover *art* is not, practically speaking, needed (once
> you've got the book), an actual physical cover *is* highly
> desirable. So once you have that, it's a useful place to put the
> picture that Marketing wants to catch the eye anyway.
>
In the UK the range of SF books that I could trust and be interested in
was Gollancz - easy to spot them plain yellow and no art.
O like some cobver art but I can't remeber ever buying becaiuse of it,
How ofdten does the art maytch the story?
> (And a lot of books even today don't actually have cover *art*.
> Mostly, cheap-ass reprints of public domain stuff. A lot of ebooks
> don't, either.)
--
Mark
> David Johnston <davidjo...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:p4edtj$16d9$1...@gioia.aioe.org:
>
> > On 2018-01-25 8:25 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> In article <YLadnbPbRfMKBPfH...@earthlink.com>,
> >> David DeLaney <d...@vic.com> wrote:
> >>> On 2018-01-25, Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com> wrote:
> >>>> Some say that women have a built-in "advantage" for this, but
> >>>> the following applies to everybody. Any author who encounters
> >>>> any of the following is very likely to be completely
> >>>> forgotten.
> >>>
> >>> Was.
> >>>> Some say that women have a built-in "advantage" for this, but
> >>>> the following applies to everybody. Any author who encounters
> >>>> any of the following is very likely to be completely
> >>>> forgotten.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> 1) Die
> >>>>
> >>>> This means no more books and thus, an every decreasing number
> >>>> of reprints (though the rate depends on just how big a
> >>>> presence and backlist the author left behind).
> >>>
> >>> This is changing even now; e-publishing and e-books make
> >>>> 1) Die
> >>>>
> >>>> This means no more books and thus, an every decreasing number
> >>>> of reprints (though the rate depends on just how big a
> >>>> presence and backlist the author left behind).
> >>>
> >>> storing an author's works and offering them along with current
> >>> authors', to catch the long tail of royalty payments, viable
> >>> in a business model. It's not the Singularity yet -- but look
> >>> at youtube, for example.
> >>>
> >>>> (after all, other than experts, who* can name 1590-1630
> >>>> English playwrights not named Shakespeare).
> >>>
> >>> You mean like Kit Marlowe? I'd have to check whether Ben
> >>>> (after all, other than experts, who* can name 1590-1630
> >>>> English playwrights not named Shakespeare).
> >>>
> >>> Johnson was a playwright, so you do get some points there.
> >>>
> >>>> Not writing a will (with the
> >>>> naming of a literary executor), even though suffering from a
> >>>> chronic illness known to cut years off lifespans this leaving
> >>>> the estate to relatives who despise that work, will speed up
> >>>> the process.
> >>>
> >>> We're looking at you, estate of John M. Ford... Pleadingly.
> >>>> Not writing a will (with the
> >>>> naming of a literary executor), even though suffering from a
> >>>> chronic illness known to cut years off lifespans this leaving
> >>>> the estate to relatives who despise that work, will speed up
> >>>> the process.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> 2) Stop writing
> >>>>
> >>>> This has the same result as dying, but the author can witness
> >>>> the diminishing of royalties.
> >>>
> >>> And these days is subject to the same "not forgotten, just
> >>> backgrounded" effect if their books are e-vailable.
> >>>
> >>>> 3) Go out of favor
> >>>>
> >>>> Being dropped by publishers is similar to stop writing, but
> >>>> more frustrating. I believe that one or two regular posters
> >>>> to rec.arts.sf.written could address this from personal
> >>>> experience.
> >>>
> >>> Here a different current phenomenon (doo du, du dudu) is
> >>> taking up the slack, as mentioned by others: REALLY easy
> >>> self-publishing. So easy that, with minimal assistance,
> >>> Dorothy Heydt can do it... so YOU, whoever you are, dear
> >>> author, have little excuse.
> >>
> >> After some twenty years of people telling me why didn't I.
> >>> Here a different current phenomenon (doo du, du dudu) is
> >>> taking up the slack, as mentioned by others: REALLY easy
> >>> self-publishing. So easy that, with minimal assistance,
> >>> Dorothy Heydt can do it... so YOU, whoever you are, dear
> >>> author, have little excuse.
> >>
> >> Because I grew up in an age when tooting your own horn,
> >> particularly if female, was the sin against the Holy Ghost. I
> >> still couldn't have done it without Bill Gill.
> >>
> >> BTW, _A Point of Honor_ will, God willing, eventually go
> >> online; I'm waiting for a friend to do the "cover."
> >>
> >> I still can't figure out why an e-book has to have a "cover,"
> >> but apparently it does.
> >>
> >
> > If you think about it, there's no reason why a physical book
> > needs cover art either.
>
> Not a reason you care about, perhaps, but Marketing would disagree.
> And while cover *art* is not, practically speaking, needed (once
> you've got the book), an actual physical cover *is* highly
> desirable. So once you have that, it's a useful place to put the
> picture that Marketing wants to catch the eye anyway.
>
In the UK the range of SF books that I could trust and be interested in
was Gollancz - easy to spot them plain yellow and no art.
O like some cobver art but I can't remeber ever buying becaiuse of it,
How ofdten does the art maytch the story?
> (And a lot of books even today don't actually have cover *art*.
> Mostly, cheap-ass reprints of public domain stuff. A lot of ebooks
> don't, either.)
--
Mark
Dimensional Traveler
Jan 27, 2018, 7:34:27 PM1/27/18
to
On 1/27/2018 1:22 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <p4im12$1nn$2...@dont-email.me>,
> Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>> On 1/26/2018 7:47 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> On 1/26/2018 7:31 PM, David Johnston wrote:
>>>> On 2018-01-26 5:17 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>> In article <p4gcrf$mpe$1...@dont-email.me>,
> In article <p4im12$1nn$2...@dont-email.me>,
> Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>> On 1/26/2018 7:47 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> On 1/26/2018 7:31 PM, David Johnston wrote:
>>>> On 2018-01-26 5:17 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>> In article <p4gcrf$mpe$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/26/2018 3:57 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>>>>> Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote in
>>>>>>> news:ii6n6dls20rad4pn0...@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 20:59:35 -0600, David DeLaney
>>>>>>>> <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Here a different current phenomenon (doo du, du dudu) is taking
>>>>>>>>> up the slack, as mentioned by others: REALLY easy
>>>>>>>>> self-publishing. So easy that, with minimal assistance, Dorothy
>>>>>>>>> Heydt can do it... so YOU, whoever you are, dear author, have
>>>>>>>>> little excuse.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Publishing is easy. Getting paid isn't.
>>>>>> On 1/26/2018 3:57 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>>>>> Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote in
>>>>>>> news:ii6n6dls20rad4pn0...@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 20:59:35 -0600, David DeLaney
>>>>>>>> <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Here a different current phenomenon (doo du, du dudu) is taking
>>>>>>>>> up the slack, as mentioned by others: REALLY easy
>>>>>>>>> self-publishing. So easy that, with minimal assistance, Dorothy
>>>>>>>>> Heydt can do it... so YOU, whoever you are, dear author, have
>>>>>>>>> little excuse.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I got a fan letter yesterday, though. I got one last year, too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's just as easy to get paid as it is to self publish through one of
>>>>>>> hte big sites like Amazon. The trick is getting people to buy your
>>>>>>> stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Simple. Write apocalyptic survival fiction.
>>>>>>> It's just as easy to get paid as it is to self publish through one of
>>>>>>> hte big sites like Amazon. The trick is getting people to buy your
>>>>>>> stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You mean, like _Farnham's Freehold_? I didn't think that was
>>>>> particularly successful, as Heinleins go. I could be mistaken.
>>>>
>>>> Nope. Farnham's Freehold wasn't survival fiction. They went from one
>>>> civilized world to another civilized world.
>>>
>>> Uh, no. Cannibalism is not civilized, no matter what.
>>>
>>>
>> Are you a Christian?
>
> Irrelevant. If you think a non-Christian would be offended by
> "eat my flesh and drink my blood," imagine how it sounded to the
> first-century Jews, with their pious adherence to the rules of
> kashrut. It probably sounds pretty awful to contemporary Jews,
> too.
>
> If Jesus had been speaking to a present-day audience, he might
> have used the analogy of what an unborn child does to its mother.
>
> http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2014/05/science_for_mother_s_day_disturbing_biology_of_the_human_placenta.html
>
>
Not entirely irrelevant. Just one of many examples illustrating that
>> Are you a Christian?
>
> Irrelevant. If you think a non-Christian would be offended by
> "eat my flesh and drink my blood," imagine how it sounded to the
> first-century Jews, with their pious adherence to the rules of
> kashrut. It probably sounds pretty awful to contemporary Jews,
> too.
>
> If Jesus had been speaking to a present-day audience, he might
> have used the analogy of what an unborn child does to its mother.
>
> http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2014/05/science_for_mother_s_day_disturbing_biology_of_the_human_placenta.html
>
>
"civilized" is a subjective definition.
David Johnston
Jan 27, 2018, 9:04:19 PM1/27/18
to
David DeLaney
Jan 27, 2018, 9:47:30 PM1/27/18
to
On 2018-01-27, Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com> wrote:
with Midnight Never Come, four-book series.
Dave, worth finding and reading, my library had the three I didn't
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
> Gene Wirchenko <ge...@telus.net> wrote:
>> I thought of Marlowe myself. I am hardly an expert. However,
>> the reason I remembered Marlowe was because of the theories about who
>> Shakespeare really was. So it makes your point.
>>
>
> Marlowe has also appeared in at least one fantasy novel, _The Armor of
> Light_ by Melissa Scott and Lisa A. Barnett.
And in one of Marie Brennan's novels about London's fae community, that starts
>> I thought of Marlowe myself. I am hardly an expert. However,
>> the reason I remembered Marlowe was because of the theories about who
>> Shakespeare really was. So it makes your point.
>>
>
> Marlowe has also appeared in at least one fantasy novel, _The Armor of
> Light_ by Melissa Scott and Lisa A. Barnett.
with Midnight Never Come, four-book series.
Dave, worth finding and reading, my library had the three I didn't
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Lynn McGuire
Jan 27, 2018, 10:11:22 PM1/27/18
to
and actual physical practices. And you know that.
Lynn
Ahasuerus
Jan 27, 2018, 10:48:09 PM1/27/18
to
that...
Drats.
Ninapenda Jibini
Jan 28, 2018, 12:43:40 AM1/28/18
to
Juho Julkunen <giao...@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:MPG.34d6b9af2...@news.kolumbus.fi:
Are you suggesting Dorothy *is* Check Tingle?
news:MPG.34d6b9af2...@news.kolumbus.fi:
Gene Wirchenko
Jan 28, 2018, 1:15:01 AM1/28/18
to
On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 12:42:23 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
<rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>I had some trouble thinking of a living playwright. (Gbz Fgbccneq)
>
>I got some recently dead ones. I'm not counting Andrew Lloyd Webber
>as either.
>
>I've paid to see a show by Zvpunry Senla - I think I paid...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This looks vaguely Russic or Eastern European.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
<rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>I had some trouble thinking of a living playwright. (Gbz Fgbccneq)
>
>I got some recently dead ones. I'm not counting Andrew Lloyd Webber
>as either.
>
>I've paid to see a show by Zvpunry Senla - I think I paid...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This looks vaguely Russic or Eastern European.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Dorothy J Heydt
Jan 28, 2018, 1:15:05 AM1/28/18
to
In article <XnsA877DD06FB8D7...@69.16.179.43>,
I assure you, with my hand over my heart, that I could not write
his kind of stuff. Nor could I sell it if I did.
his kind of stuff. Nor could I sell it if I did.
Robert Woodward
Jan 28, 2018, 1:21:00 AM1/28/18
to
In article <fd2jjt...@mid.individual.net>,
I have read _The Armor of Light_; I have not read those other books.
However, I do have a vague recollection of him appearing in another
story I have read, but I can't remember the title or author.
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
ã-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robe...@drizzle.com
However, I do have a vague recollection of him appearing in another
story I have read, but I can't remember the title or author.
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
Robert Woodward robe...@drizzle.com
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Jan 28, 2018, 1:33:28 AM1/28/18
to
In article <robertaw-0211BB...@news.individual.net>,
FWIW, I ran across the name of the alternate Spanish Armada
book I didn't like: _The Silver Skull_ (Swords of Albion 1) Mark Chadbourn
book I didn't like: _The Silver Skull_ (Swords of Albion 1) Mark Chadbourn
Dimensional Traveler
Jan 28, 2018, 1:44:37 AM1/28/18
to
transformed into the flesh and blood of Christ. For them it IS physical
practice, not metaphorical language, because God makes it so and it is
by following God that one is civilized.
mcdow...@sky.com
Jan 28, 2018, 1:48:34 AM1/28/18
to
William Hyde
Jan 28, 2018, 1:53:05 AM1/28/18
to
For them it IS physical
> practice, not metaphorical language, because God makes it so
William Hyde
mcdow...@sky.com
Jan 28, 2018, 1:56:09 AM1/28/18
to
"Transubstantiation (or the change of the substance of Bread and Wine) in the Supper of the Lord, cannot be proved by holy Writ; but is repugnant to the plain words of Scripture, overthroweth the nature of a Sacrament, and hath given occasion to many superstitions.
The Body of Christ is given, taken, and eaten, in the Supper, only after an heavenly and spiritual manner."
(https://www.churchofengland.org/prayer-and-worship/worship-texts-and-resources/book-common-prayer/articles-religion#XXVIII - but I think you will find many different interpretations of that supposedly agreed article, and some people outright ignoring it)
Ninapenda Jibini
Jan 28, 2018, 2:14:09 AM1/28/18
to
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
news:p3947...@kithrup.com:
makes it plausible. I mean, if you *did* write gay alien dinosaur
bondage porn, you'd certainly publish it under a pseudonym.
David Duffy
Jan 28, 2018, 3:01:50 AM1/28/18
to
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> Hm. I had an idea once for a story involving alien sex once --
> three sexes, one of them a tree. I don't know if I could bring
> it off.
>
_Pollinators of Eden_ is almost there.
> three sexes, one of them a tree. I don't know if I could bring
> it off.
>
David Duffy
Jan 28, 2018, 3:07:58 AM1/28/18
to
Ted Nolan <tednolan> <t...@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:
> In article <robertaw-0211BB...@news.individual.net>,
> Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com> wrote:
>>In article <fd2jjt...@mid.individual.net>,
>> t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote:
>>
>>> In article <robertaw-56D642...@news.individual.net>,
>>> Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com> wrote:
>>> >In article <9tqm6d160rhg3gn5p...@4ax.com>,
> In article <robertaw-0211BB...@news.individual.net>,
> Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com> wrote:
>>In article <fd2jjt...@mid.individual.net>,
>> t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote:
>>
>>> In article <robertaw-56D642...@news.individual.net>,
>>> Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com> wrote:
>>> >In article <9tqm6d160rhg3gn5p...@4ax.com>,
>>> >Marlowe has also appeared in at least one fantasy novel, _The Armor of
>>> >Light_ by Melissa Scott and Lisa A. Barnett.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Oh, he gets around more than that.
>>>
>>> He's a fairly high level vampire supporting character in Karen
>>> Chance's Cassie Palmer (and related) books.
>>>
>>> He's a supporting underworld/spy character in an alternate Spanish Armada
>>> book that I didn't like.
>>>
>>> I believe he also figured in Turtledove's _Ruled Britannia_.
>>
>>I have read _The Armor of Light_; I have not read those other books.
>>However, I do have a vague recollection of him appearing in another
>>story I have read, but I can't remember the title or author.
>
> FWIW, I ran across the name of the alternate Spanish Armada
> book I didn't like: _The Silver Skull_ (Swords of Albion 1) Mark Chadbourn
And Neal Stephenson (plus another).
>>> >Light_ by Melissa Scott and Lisa A. Barnett.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Oh, he gets around more than that.
>>>
>>> He's a fairly high level vampire supporting character in Karen
>>> Chance's Cassie Palmer (and related) books.
>>>
>>> He's a supporting underworld/spy character in an alternate Spanish Armada
>>> book that I didn't like.
>>>
>>> I believe he also figured in Turtledove's _Ruled Britannia_.
>>
>>I have read _The Armor of Light_; I have not read those other books.
>>However, I do have a vague recollection of him appearing in another
>>story I have read, but I can't remember the title or author.
>
> FWIW, I ran across the name of the alternate Spanish Armada
> book I didn't like: _The Silver Skull_ (Swords of Albion 1) Mark Chadbourn
Lawrence Watt-Evans
Jan 28, 2018, 3:51:45 AM1/28/18
to
>There's your mistake. I'm pretty sure Chuck Tingle didn't write his stories with his hand on his heart :-)
No, I'd say his hand was clearly on a different area of the body.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Tom Derringer in the Tunnels of Terror.
See http://www.watt-evans.com/TomDerringerintheTunnelsofTerror.shtml
Juho Julkunen
Jan 28, 2018, 9:25:54 AM1/28/18
to
In article <XnsA877EC5DD3455...@69.16.179.43>,
I'm not saying Dorothy is Chuck Tingle.
I'm just asking if anyone's ever seen them in the same place at the
same time.
--
Juho Julkunen
I'm just asking if anyone's ever seen them in the same place at the
same time.
--
Juho Julkunen
Robert Carnegie
Jan 28, 2018, 10:07:35 AM1/28/18
to
Jesus - as reported - meant the Eucharist to be symbolic, and
his (Catholic) followers meant it to be literal. So it's
appropriate to consider who actually invented the Eucharist -
a religious leader who wanted to create a symbol of his own
dedication to the cause, or a school of priests who wanted
to perform a magic trick to impress worshippers. And I am
an atheist.
For that matter, it's also reported that Jesus had second
thoughts about being sacrificed, before and during the event,
so within religious thought it may still have been not his idea.
Maybe transubstantiation /hurts/.
Dorothy J Heydt
Jan 28, 2018, 10:30:13 AM1/28/18
to
In article <3o3r6dd7e4r1tn44h...@reader80.eternal-september.org>,
Which, as it happens, I don't have.
Dorothy J Heydt
Jan 28, 2018, 10:45:04 AM1/28/18
to
In article <MPG.34d809f3d...@news.kolumbus.fi>,
I've never seen him at all. This may not be enough to convince
you, but it is for me.
you, but it is for me.
Dorothy J Heydt
Jan 28, 2018, 10:45:04 AM1/28/18
to
In article <p4k017$1dc2$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,
Hmm. Never having read that, I did a quick google for the plot.
It seems to involve alien plants seducing humans. No humans at
all in my plot; it was a little more like a story by Katherine
MacLean involving a species with two life-stages, the first
humanoid, the second a tree. Mine had three: the first two, if
not necessarily humanoid, at least ambulatory, the third a tree.
But since the possibility of my ever writing it dwindles toward
the infinitesimal, it doesn't matter.
It seems to involve alien plants seducing humans. No humans at
all in my plot; it was a little more like a story by Katherine
MacLean involving a species with two life-stages, the first
humanoid, the second a tree. Mine had three: the first two, if
not necessarily humanoid, at least ambulatory, the third a tree.
But since the possibility of my ever writing it dwindles toward
the infinitesimal, it doesn't matter.
Dorothy J Heydt
Jan 28, 2018, 11:00:07 AM1/28/18
to
In article <p4jrgi$jso$1...@dont-email.me>,
Well, it depends on your definition of "physically transformed."
If you did a chemical analysis of the consecrated Host, you'd
find starch, water, maybe a small amount of wheat protein.* The
Scholastic philosophers, such as St. Thomas Aquinas, would say
that the accidents (the physical appearance, including chemical
composition) of the Host are still those of wheat bread, but the
substance is now that of the Body of Christ.
An analogy can be made to a conversation in Lewis's _The Voyage
of the Dawn Treader._ The travelers meet an old man who explains
that he used to be a star, but got too old to shine; he is now
spending some time in Narnia to grow young again, before he goes
back in the sky.
"In our world," says Eustace, "a star is a huge ball of flaming
gas."
"Even in your world," says the star, "that is not what a star is,
but only what it is made of."
_____
*Only you wouldn't be allowed to. There's an early whodunit by
Jane Haddam, _Precious Blood_, in which somebody manages to
poison the sacramental wine in the chalice and the priest dies
from drinking it. That chalice spends the next couple of days
sitting on the altar, while a battalion of clergy stands off a
battalion of police who want to claim it for evidence.
If you did a chemical analysis of the consecrated Host, you'd
find starch, water, maybe a small amount of wheat protein.* The
Scholastic philosophers, such as St. Thomas Aquinas, would say
that the accidents (the physical appearance, including chemical
composition) of the Host are still those of wheat bread, but the
substance is now that of the Body of Christ.
An analogy can be made to a conversation in Lewis's _The Voyage
of the Dawn Treader._ The travelers meet an old man who explains
that he used to be a star, but got too old to shine; he is now
spending some time in Narnia to grow young again, before he goes
back in the sky.
"In our world," says Eustace, "a star is a huge ball of flaming
gas."
"Even in your world," says the star, "that is not what a star is,
but only what it is made of."
_____
*Only you wouldn't be allowed to. There's an early whodunit by
Jane Haddam, _Precious Blood_, in which somebody manages to
poison the sacramental wine in the chalice and the priest dies
from drinking it. That chalice spends the next couple of days
sitting on the altar, while a battalion of clergy stands off a
battalion of police who want to claim it for evidence.
Dorothy J Heydt
Jan 28, 2018, 11:00:07 AM1/28/18
to
mcdow...@sky.com
Jan 28, 2018, 11:21:18 AM1/28/18
to
Dorothy J Heydt
Jan 28, 2018, 12:30:11 PM1/28/18
to
In article <9c10e160-71bf-4d85...@googlegroups.com>,
Well, when I go to Communion I take only the bread, not the wine;
alcohol upsets my stomach. Mind you, what's being offered is the
Blood of Christ, but the *accidents* are still those of alcohol.
And anyway, both the Body and the Blood are each present in
both the bread and the wine; St. Thomas Aquinas says so. :)
Mind, the wine is heavily diluted with water. But if it's enough
to upset my innards, it might be enough to tip an alcoholic over
the edge.
alcohol upsets my stomach. Mind you, what's being offered is the
Blood of Christ, but the *accidents* are still those of alcohol.
And anyway, both the Body and the Blood are each present in
both the bread and the wine; St. Thomas Aquinas says so. :)
Mind, the wine is heavily diluted with water. But if it's enough
to upset my innards, it might be enough to tip an alcoholic over
the edge.
Greg Goss
Jan 28, 2018, 12:55:39 PM1/28/18
to
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
>Lawrence Watt-Evans <misencha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>No, I'd say his hand was clearly on a different area of the body.
>
>Which, as it happens, I don't have.
I thought you had one you could borrow.
>>No, I'd say his hand was clearly on a different area of the body.
>
>Which, as it happens, I don't have.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Greg Goss
Jan 28, 2018, 1:01:17 PM1/28/18
to
>Hmm. Never having read that, I did a quick google for the plot.
>It seems to involve alien plants seducing humans. No humans at
>all in my plot; it was a little more like a story by Katherine
>MacLean involving a species with two life-stages, the first
>humanoid, the second a tree. Mine had three: the first two, if
>not necessarily humanoid, at least ambulatory, the third a tree.
>But since the possibility of my ever writing it dwindles toward
>the infinitesimal, it doesn't matter.
Breeders and adults. Sounds like Niven's Grogs, without the "hands".
>It seems to involve alien plants seducing humans. No humans at
>all in my plot; it was a little more like a story by Katherine
>MacLean involving a species with two life-stages, the first
>humanoid, the second a tree. Mine had three: the first two, if
>not necessarily humanoid, at least ambulatory, the third a tree.
>But since the possibility of my ever writing it dwindles toward
>the infinitesimal, it doesn't matter.
Gene Wirchenko
Jan 28, 2018, 1:38:18 PM1/28/18
to
On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 16:26:03 +0200, Juho Julkunen
<giao...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
>I'm not saying Dorothy is Chuck Tingle.
>
>I'm just asking if anyone's ever seen them in the same place at the
>same time.
Which does not prove identity anyway. Counterexample: matter and
anti-matter.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
<giao...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
>I'm not saying Dorothy is Chuck Tingle.
>
>I'm just asking if anyone's ever seen them in the same place at the
>same time.
anti-matter.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Greg Goss
Jan 28, 2018, 2:23:03 PM1/28/18
to
Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Are you a Christian?
>
>There is an enormous amount of difference between metaphorical language
>and actual physical practices. And you know that.
The Catholics (officially) don't consider there to be a difference.
>> Are you a Christian?
>
>There is an enormous amount of difference between metaphorical language
>and actual physical practices. And you know that.
Indeed, they claim that the actual conversion of the bread and wine
into real flesh and blood is one of the greatest miracles of all time.
To those of us who aren't insiders, considering the conversion of
metaphor into reality to be a "miracle" seems rather tautological.
Lynn McGuire
Jan 28, 2018, 3:55:11 PM1/28/18
to
believed that. We also have an open communion which allows unbelievers
to take part of the communion process by their own choice without
verification of their Christian status.
BTW, I am part of a Church of Christ church.
Lynn
Quadibloc
Jan 28, 2018, 4:07:23 PM1/28/18
to
On Saturday, January 27, 2018 at 8:48:09 PM UTC-7, Ahasuerus wrote:
> Wait, are you saying that when that guy said "Eat me!", he didn't mean
> that...
And he wasn't using the *other* metaphor either, despite all
those nasty rumors about him and Mary Magdalene...
John Savard
> Wait, are you saying that when that guy said "Eat me!", he didn't mean
> that...
And he wasn't using the *other* metaphor either, despite all
those nasty rumors about him and Mary Magdalene...
John Savard
Quadibloc
Jan 28, 2018, 4:12:04 PM1/28/18
to
On Saturday, January 27, 2018 at 11:56:09 PM UTC-7, mcdow...@sky.com wrote:
> Only for some values of "true believer". For others e.g.
>
> "Transubstantiation (or the change of the substance of Bread and Wine) in the Supper of the Lord, cannot be proved by holy Writ; but is repugnant to the plain words of Scripture, overthroweth the nature of a Sacrament, and hath given occasion to many superstitions.
> The Body of Christ is given, taken, and eaten, in the Supper, only after an heavenly and spiritual manner."
I should think that even Roman Catholics know full well
> Only for some values of "true believer". For others e.g.
>
> "Transubstantiation (or the change of the substance of Bread and Wine) in the Supper of the Lord, cannot be proved by holy Writ; but is repugnant to the plain words of Scripture, overthroweth the nature of a Sacrament, and hath given occasion to many superstitions.
> The Body of Christ is given, taken, and eaten, in the Supper, only after an heavenly and spiritual manner."
that the Host doesn't taste like pork, nor sacramental
wine as though it were rich in iron.
Hence, when they say they believe in transubstantiation,
they still mean that the Body and Blood of Christ are
taken in a heavenly and spiritual manner... just a more
*intense* heavenly and spiritual manner than it would be
without transusbstantiation.
You know, like the word "literally" is often used to mean
"figuratively, but to a greater extent than usual".
Either that, or Jesus had a prosthetic leg made from
bread... and a serious drinking problem.
John Savard
Quadibloc
Jan 28, 2018, 4:14:52 PM1/28/18
to
On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 12:23:03 PM UTC-7, Greg Goss wrote:
> The Catholics (officially) don't consider there to be a difference.
> Indeed, they claim that the actual conversion of the bread and wine
> into real flesh and blood is one of the greatest miracles of all time.
> To those of us who aren't insiders, considering the conversion of
> metaphor into reality to be a "miracle" seems rather tautological.
I suppose that to those of us who aren't followers of P. T.
> The Catholics (officially) don't consider there to be a difference.
> Indeed, they claim that the actual conversion of the bread and wine
> into real flesh and blood is one of the greatest miracles of all time.
> To those of us who aren't insiders, considering the conversion of
> metaphor into reality to be a "miracle" seems rather tautological.
Barnum (actually, the famous quote is from someone talking
about him) the level of credulity involved could be
considered miraculous...
John Savard
Kevrob
Jan 28, 2018, 7:51:26 PM1/28/18
to
that the host is Yeshua's body and the cup contains his blood,
even if, to our senses, they appear to be bread and wine.
Other sects have other beliefs about communion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transubstantiation
I don't believe it anymore, but that is what I was taught.
Kevin R
Titus G
Jan 28, 2018, 9:04:45 PM1/28/18
to
On 29/01/18 09:55, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 1/28/2018 12:44 AM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
snip
> On 1/28/2018 12:44 AM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> A true believer Christian knows that the wafer and wine are physically
>> transformed into the flesh and blood of Christ. For them it IS
>> physical practice, not metaphorical language, because God makes it so
>> and it is by following God that one is civilized.
>
> Sorry, not true. I would call myself a true believer and we have never
> believed that. We also have an open communion which allows unbelievers
> to take part of the communion process by their own choice without
> verification of their Christian status.
>
> BTW, I am part of a Church of Christ church.
(When not talking about climate change?)
Carl Fink
Jan 29, 2018, 9:23:59 AM1/29/18
to
On 2018-01-28, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>Lawrence Watt-Evans <misencha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>No, I'd say his hand was clearly on a different area of the body.
>>
>>Which, as it happens, I don't have.
>
> I thought you had one you could borrow.
Puitzer winner Edna Buchanan once wrote that should one be required, she could
> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>Lawrence Watt-Evans <misencha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>No, I'd say his hand was clearly on a different area of the body.
>>
>>Which, as it happens, I don't have.
>
> I thought you had one you could borrow.
purchase it in a novelty store.
--
Carl Fink nitpi...@nitpicking.com
Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!
Carl Fink
Jan 29, 2018, 9:28:21 AM1/29/18
to
On 2018-01-28, Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> Mind, the wine is heavily diluted with water. But if it's enough
> to upset my innards, it might be enough to tip an alcoholic over
> the edge.
It may be worth mentioning that the "touch a drop and binge" thing is not
> Mind, the wine is heavily diluted with water. But if it's enough
> to upset my innards, it might be enough to tip an alcoholic over
> the edge.
supported by science. It's doctrine of the AA religion. Yes, Alcoholics
Anonymous is a religion.
Peter Trei
Jan 29, 2018, 10:09:56 AM1/29/18
to
usually grape juice.
They often also present the 'blood' as a tray with a myriad of tiny, individual
serving glasses.
Regardless of usually overblown hygiene, I prefer the symbolism of the
communicants all taking a sip of ruby port from a shared chalice.
pt
Peter Trei
Jan 29, 2018, 10:17:09 AM1/29/18
to
On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 12:30:11 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> Mind, the wine is heavily diluted with water. But if it's enough
> to upset my innards, it might be enough to tip an alcoholic over
> the edge.
I don't know what church you go to, but in my experience The Church of England
> Mind, the wine is heavily diluted with water. But if it's enough
> to upset my innards, it might be enough to tip an alcoholic over
> the edge.
and Episcopalians use ruby port, undiluted. I'm told port is used because it
has a strong enough flavor that you know you've had some wine, even with a tiny
sip.
I've been to other protestant churches which use grape juice, even yellow
grape juice. Bleh.
pt
Scott Lurndal
Jan 29, 2018, 10:19:20 AM1/29/18
to
Dorothy J Heydt
Jan 29, 2018, 12:45:05 PM1/29/18
to
In article <slrnp6ubjr...@panix3.panix.com>,
Carl Fink <ca...@finknetwork.com> wrote:
>On 2018-01-28, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>>Lawrence Watt-Evans <misencha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>No, I'd say his hand was clearly on a different area of the body.
>>>
>>>Which, as it happens, I don't have.
>>
>> I thought you had one you could borrow.
>
>Puitzer winner Edna Buchanan once wrote that should one be required, she could
>purchase it in a novelty store.
In formaldehyde?
>On 2018-01-28, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>>Lawrence Watt-Evans <misencha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>No, I'd say his hand was clearly on a different area of the body.
>>>
>>>Which, as it happens, I don't have.
>>
>> I thought you had one you could borrow.
>
>Puitzer winner Edna Buchanan once wrote that should one be required, she could
>purchase it in a novelty store.
Dorothy J Heydt
Jan 29, 2018, 12:45:06 PM1/29/18
to
In article <21de4c3a-2038-43c3...@googlegroups.com>,
(Which apparently was the custom in wine-drinking in classical
times.)
> but in my experience The Church of England
>and Episcopalians use ruby port, undiluted. I'm told port is used because it
>has a strong enough flavor that you know you've had some wine, even with a tiny
>sip.
>I've been to other protestant churches which use grape juice, even yellow
>grape juice. Bleh.
I haven't been to Baycon (a Northern California SF con, held
around Memorial Day IIRC) in years, but back in the day they'd
hold Sunday services co-run by a Catholic priest and a Methodist
minister. They'd take turns reading the readings, and they'd
each do their own consecrations. The Catholic priest would use
real wine and lots of water and little wafers that look like fish
food, and the Methodist minister would use grape juice and a loaf
of San Francisco sourdough or similar. Each of us would know
which line to line up in.
Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 12:30:11 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
>
>> Mind, the wine is heavily diluted with water. But if it's enough
>> to upset my innards, it might be enough to tip an alcoholic over
>> the edge.
>
>I don't know what church you go to,
Roman Catholic. Trust me, the wine is watered.
>On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 12:30:11 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
>
>> Mind, the wine is heavily diluted with water. But if it's enough
>> to upset my innards, it might be enough to tip an alcoholic over
>> the edge.
>
>I don't know what church you go to,
(Which apparently was the custom in wine-drinking in classical
times.)
> but in my experience The Church of England
>and Episcopalians use ruby port, undiluted. I'm told port is used because it
>has a strong enough flavor that you know you've had some wine, even with a tiny
>sip.
>I've been to other protestant churches which use grape juice, even yellow
>grape juice. Bleh.
around Memorial Day IIRC) in years, but back in the day they'd
hold Sunday services co-run by a Catholic priest and a Methodist
minister. They'd take turns reading the readings, and they'd
each do their own consecrations. The Catholic priest would use
real wine and lots of water and little wafers that look like fish
food, and the Methodist minister would use grape juice and a loaf
of San Francisco sourdough or similar. Each of us would know
which line to line up in.
Dorothy J Heydt
Jan 29, 2018, 1:00:08 PM1/29/18
to
In article <8ee1e11d-ef2c-4cb0...@googlegroups.com>,
New York, just off the theatre district, that holds a
very-early-morning service for performers who are just getting
off work, while still in makeup and, perhaps, costume. Randall
Garrett, in pace requiescat, used to attend, when he was living
in NYC, and later he'd tell two stories about it.
One was the story of the topless dancer who came to the service,
still dressed (so to speak) for work, and the verger met her at
the door and said, "You can't come in here like that!" "What do
you mean?" said the dancer. "I've got a perfect right!" "You've
got a perfect left, too," said the verger, "but you can't come in
here without a hat."
The other story involved Randall himself: there was a sizeable
congregation one morning, and the priest expected a lot of
communicants so he consecrated a fair amount of wine. But very
few stepped up to the Communion rail, so afterwards, during the
cleaning-up process, the priest turned to Randall, and said to
him in reverent tones, "Help me kill this, please."
>This would normally be taken to
>distinguish it from human blood. A modern observation would suggest that the
>current ceremony - whatever its symbolic significance - involves distributing a
>known carcinogen to the worshipers. (I suspect that even sects heavily into
>trans-substantiation will have some sort of get-out designed for abstaining
>alcoholics who might relapse after a taste of alcohol).
Nobody *has* to take Communion under both species, and as I said
upthread, I don't, because the consecreated wine retains its
accidents.
decree that the congregation receive only the pecies of bread, not
both. Michael Barber, Bishop of Oakland, AFAIK he has not done
that yet this year.
Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I believe a contemporary observation was that consecrated wine functions
>sufficiently similarly to unconsecrated wine for the priest to get drunk
>if they
>have to consume too much left over wine.
There used to be, and perhaps still is, an Episcopalian church in
>>
>> I believe a contemporary observation was that consecrated wine functions
>sufficiently similarly to unconsecrated wine for the priest to get drunk
>if they
>have to consume too much left over wine.
New York, just off the theatre district, that holds a
very-early-morning service for performers who are just getting
off work, while still in makeup and, perhaps, costume. Randall
Garrett, in pace requiescat, used to attend, when he was living
in NYC, and later he'd tell two stories about it.
One was the story of the topless dancer who came to the service,
still dressed (so to speak) for work, and the verger met her at
the door and said, "You can't come in here like that!" "What do
you mean?" said the dancer. "I've got a perfect right!" "You've
got a perfect left, too," said the verger, "but you can't come in
here without a hat."
The other story involved Randall himself: there was a sizeable
congregation one morning, and the priest expected a lot of
communicants so he consecrated a fair amount of wine. But very
few stepped up to the Communion rail, so afterwards, during the
cleaning-up process, the priest turned to Randall, and said to
him in reverent tones, "Help me kill this, please."
>This would normally be taken to
>distinguish it from human blood. A modern observation would suggest that the
>current ceremony - whatever its symbolic significance - involves distributing a
>known carcinogen to the worshipers. (I suspect that even sects heavily into
>trans-substantiation will have some sort of get-out designed for abstaining
>alcoholics who might relapse after a taste of alcohol).
upthread, I don't, because the consecreated wine retains its
accidents.
>
>Most churches I have encountered have a non-alcoholic alternative available -
>usually grape juice.
>
>They often also present the 'blood' as a tray with a myriad of tiny, individual
>serving glasses.
Paper cups.
>Most churches I have encountered have a non-alcoholic alternative available -
>usually grape juice.
>
>They often also present the 'blood' as a tray with a myriad of tiny, individual
>serving glasses.
>
>Regardless of usually overblown hygiene, I prefer the symbolism of the
>communicants all taking a sip of ruby port from a shared chalice.
During flu season, the Bishop of the individual diocese may
>Regardless of usually overblown hygiene, I prefer the symbolism of the
>communicants all taking a sip of ruby port from a shared chalice.
decree that the congregation receive only the pecies of bread, not
both. Michael Barber, Bishop of Oakland, AFAIK he has not done
that yet this year.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Jan 29, 2018, 1:06:27 PM1/29/18
to
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
news:p3BuL...@kithrup.com:
> In article <slrnp6ubjr...@panix3.panix.com>,
> Carl Fink <ca...@finknetwork.com> wrote:
>>On 2018-01-28, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>>>Lawrence Watt-Evans <misencha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>No, I'd say his hand was clearly on a different area of the
>>>>>body.
>>>>
>>>>Which, as it happens, I don't have.
>>>
>>> I thought you had one you could borrow.
>>
>>Puitzer winner Edna Buchanan once wrote that should one be
>>required, she could purchase it in a novelty store.
>
> In formaldehyde?
>
Latex doesn't really need a preservative.
--
Terry Austin
Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
news:p3BuL...@kithrup.com:
> In article <slrnp6ubjr...@panix3.panix.com>,
> Carl Fink <ca...@finknetwork.com> wrote:
>>On 2018-01-28, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>>>Lawrence Watt-Evans <misencha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>No, I'd say his hand was clearly on a different area of the
>>>>>body.
>>>>
>>>>Which, as it happens, I don't have.
>>>
>>> I thought you had one you could borrow.
>>
>>Puitzer winner Edna Buchanan once wrote that should one be
>>required, she could purchase it in a novelty store.
>
> In formaldehyde?
>
--
Terry Austin
Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
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