Coule we detect a high tech dinosaur civilization?

[Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha]

Short answer: Probably.

Slightly less short answer: But only if we were looking specifically
for things we don't normally look for.

Trigger alert: There is a presumption that industrial activity can
and has latered the earth's environment (but in ways that anybody
with a high school chemistry set could check for themselves, like an
increase in CO2 levels in the atmosphere.)

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/04/are-we-earths-
only-civilization/557180/

https://tinyurl.com/yd2sddp5

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <XnsA8CD9E4E343...@69.16.179.43>,

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Short answer: Probably.
>
>Slightly less short answer: But only if we were looking specifically
>for things we don't normally look for.
>
>Trigger alert: There is a presumption that industrial activity can
>and has latered the earth's environment (but in ways that anybody
>with a high school chemistry set could check for themselves, like an
>increase in CO2 levels in the atmosphere.)

Which could happen as a result of things other than civilization.
The Siberian Traps, e.g., that contributed heavily to the Permian
terminal extinction.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

[Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha]

djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
news:p7nvu...@kithrup.com:

That is covered in the article. Specifically covered. The geological
record shows things that indicate changes in CO2 levels greater than
we have seen in the last couple of centuries, but only over the
course of 100,000 years or more. Never as quickly as we are currently
seeing.

As I said, we could probably detect signs, but only if we were
looking for things we don't normally look for.

[Johnny1A]

On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 6:52:27 PM UTC-5, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
> news:p7nvu...@kithrup.com:
>
> > In article <XnsA8CD9E4E343...@69.16.179.43>,
> > Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>Short answer: Probably.
> >>
> >>Slightly less short answer: But only if we were looking
> >>specifically for things we don't normally look for.
> >>
> >>Trigger alert: There is a presumption that industrial activity
> >>can and has latered the earth's environment (but in ways that
> >>anybody with a high school chemistry set could check for
> >>themselves, like an increase in CO2 levels in the atmosphere.)
> >
> > Which could happen as a result of things other than
> > civilization. The Siberian Traps, e.g., that contributed heavily
> > to the Permian terminal extinction.
> >
> That is covered in the article. Specifically covered. The geological
> record shows things that indicate changes in CO2 levels greater than
> we have seen in the last couple of centuries, but only over the
> course of 100,000 years or more. Never as quickly as we are currently
> seeing.
>
> As I said, we could probably detect signs, but only if we were
> looking for things we don't normally look for.
>

And it would require us to be willing to admit to ourselves that we were seeing what we were seeing, if we saw it.

[Ninapenda Jibini]

Johnny1A <johnny1...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:d8f8fbde-c62b-4c15...@googlegroups.com:

It is hard to imagine it'd be accepted on the first try. But if the
evidence is there, odds are it would be eventually.

--
Terry Austin

[mcdow...@sky.com]

If the civilization was high tech _enough_ it would still be around.

[Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha]

mcdow...@sky.com wrote in
news:09014064-49e3-4512...@googlegroups.com:

Only if you expand "tech" to include some pretty fuzzy social
factors that have nothing to do with technology.

(And maybe it still is. Just not *here*. Or, if you're into
conspiracy theories, it *is* still here, but the lizard people who
really run the world disguise themselves as humans. Speaking of
which, season 3 of People of Earth should be coming up soon.)

[Dimensional Traveler]

And 'Iron Sky: The Coming Race' is promised to be released this year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNIFyy3i_1I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG2utrMwTyY

--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.

[Lynn McGuire]

On 4/24/2018 2:20 AM, mcdow...@sky.com wrote:
> On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 11:33:46 PM UTC+1, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> Short answer: Probably.
>>
>> Slightly less short answer: But only if we were looking specifically
>> for things we don't normally look for.
>>
>> Trigger alert: There is a presumption that industrial activity can
>> and has latered the earth's environment (but in ways that anybody
>> with a high school chemistry set could check for themselves, like an
>> increase in CO2 levels in the atmosphere.)

...

>
> If the civilization was high tech _enough_ it would still be around.

I disagree. There are numerous problems that could wipe out a
civilization such as meteoroid strike, fertility, barbarians, etc, etc, etc.

Lynn

[Leo Sgouros]

I kinda like the idea of a fertility barbarian :-)

[Chris Buckley]

As a civilization becomes higher and higher tech, the resources needed
to have a large effect on civilization become more and more available
to smaller and smaller groups of people. I would guess our
civilization's stability will continue to decrease as tech gets
higher, unless the tech can become high enough so we can survive our
"mistakes".

Chris

[Leo Sgouros]

Perhaps, but as the complexity rises, at some point a discontinuity becomes catastrophic, like, I don't know, a solar event. There is also the situation where some day the machines do everything including make the stuff the few use to "control the many", as my inner child interpreted a part of your post. If I were me, I'd make friends with the top node intelligence robot.

[Kevrob]

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 5:07:33 PM UTC-4, Leo Sgouros wrote:

>
> I kinda like the idea of a fertility barbarian :-)

There have been plenty parodies such as.....

"Gonad, The Barbarian" :)

https://www.comics.org/issue/335770/cover/4/

Kevin R

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <85fe0ed7-3d3b-4994...@googlegroups.com>,

Oglaf.com's Cronar The Barbarian is so fertile he begets babies on men.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[Lynn McGuire]

I forgot about MAD. 20,000 nuclear ICBMs would wipe out civilization.

And asteroid mining is getting ready to start happening in the next 10 ?
20 ? 30 ? years. One screwup and some idiot drops a 100 million ton
asteroid in the Pacific / Atlantic / Switzerland / etc.

https://bgr.com/2018/04/23/asteroid-mining-trillionaire-goldman-sachs-report/

Lynn

[Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha]

Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:pbo0sm$ga2$1...@dont-email.me:

None of which is related at all to how high tech they are, except in
that high enough tech can avert many of them.

[Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha]

Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote in

news:pbo9r3$g8a$1...@dont-email.me:

Until the tech is high enough to defend against nukes effectively.
(You seem to be assuming that we are currently at the highest tech
possible, ever, for anyone. And it's as silly an assumption as it
sounds when you say it out loud.)

>
> And asteroid mining is getting ready to start happening in the
> next 10 ? 20 ? 30 ? years. One screwup and some idiot drops a
> 100 million ton asteroid in the Pacific / Atlantic / Switzerland
> / etc.
>
> https://bgr.com/2018/04/23/asteroid-mining-trillionaire-goldman-s
> achs-report/
>

They only thing they're planning to mind is the bank accounts of
their investors.

[Lynn McGuire]

...

You are correct. I forgot about _The Peace War_.
https://www.amazon.com/Peace-War-Vernor-Vinge/dp/0765308835/

Lynn

[Greg Goss]

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/1-in-200-men-direct-descendants-of-genghis-khan/#.Wt_VbcgvyM8
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.

[mcdow...@sky.com]

meteoroid strike - as Sagan pointed out, you need a space program

barbarians - Byzantium did pretty well with just exceptional fortifications. If the rest of the Roman empire had had the germ theory of disease and enough practical knowledge of sanitation they would have avoided a number of devastating plagues and waiting out sieges would have been a lot more practical

fertility - the germ theory of disease would allow them to avoid a number of diseases that sterilize.

(the obvious thing I can't handle is wars between factions at the same technology level)

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

On 24 Apr 2018 21:49:50 GMT, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>)
wrote:

>In article <85fe0ed7-3d3b-4994...@googlegroups.com>,
>Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 5:07:33 PM UTC-4, Leo Sgouros wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I kinda like the idea of a fertility barbarian :-)
>>
>>There have been plenty parodies such as.....
>>
>>"Gonad, The Barbarian" :)
>>
>>https://www.comics.org/issue/335770/cover/4/
>>
>

>Oglaf.com's Cronar The Barbarian is so fertile he begets babies on men.

That seems to be a normal thing in the tribe/species he comes from,
rather than a personal characteristic.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"Don't let nouns get in the way of a good time" -- Jasper Fforde

[Lynn McGuire]

Fertility: Stargate SG1: The Asgard clones of clones of clones start
failing roughly simultaneously and the entire race expires while
fighting off another race of faux gods.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asgard_(Stargate)

Lynn

[Leo Sgouros]

I wrote a short fanfic resurrecting them. I took the idea of the repository of knowledge on P3R-272 and decided there was an Asgard repository on a different wall of the enclosure. I chose Jonas Quinn's populace,the Langarans because they have more RAM, as the resurrected Asgard.
I hated the Stargate ending. Ragnarok my skinny white ass.

[larry]

Thank you for sharing your beliefs.

--
After investigation, believe that which you have yourselves
tested and found reasonable, and which is for your good
and that of others.
Gautama.

[Harold Hill]

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 9:11:26 PM UTC-4, Greg Goss wrote:
> Leo Sgouros <adra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 2:34:49 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>
> >> I disagree. There are numerous problems that could wipe out a
> >> civilization such as meteoroid strike, fertility, barbarians, etc, etc, etc.
> >>
> >> Lynn
> >
> >I kinda like the idea of a fertility barbarian :-)
>
> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/1-in-200-men-direct-descendants-of-genghis-khan/#.Wt_VbcgvyM8

"Curiously enough, though he didn't know it, he was also a direct male-line descendant of Genghis Khan, though intervening generations and racial mixing had so juggled his genes that he had no discernible Mongoloid characteristics, and the only vestiges left in Mr. L. Prosser of his mighty ancestry were a pronounced stoutness about the tum and a predilection for little fur hats."

</ob sf>
--
-Harold Hill

[Peter Trei]

Note that Douglas Adams came up with that line decades before GK's prolific
sowing of wild oats in Asia was established.

A lot of people do genealogy, and are overjoyed to discover they have descent
from (for example) Edward III or Charlemagne. The problem is that if you go back
a few hundred years, pretty much everyone has either zero 21st century
descendants, or thousands of them.

pt

[Robert Carnegie]

On Monday, 30 April 2018 19:53:44 UTC+1, Peter Trei wrote:
> On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 2:41:37 PM UTC-4, Harold Hill wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 9:11:26 PM UTC-4, Greg Goss wrote:
> > > Leo Sgouros <adra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 2:34:49 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > >
> > > >> I disagree. There are numerous problems that could wipe out a
> > > >> civilization such as meteoroid strike, fertility, barbarians, etc, etc, etc.
> > > >>
> > > >> Lynn
> > > >
> > > >I kinda like the idea of a fertility barbarian :-)
> > >
> > > http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/1-in-200-men-direct-descendants-of-genghis-khan/#.Wt_VbcgvyM8
> >
> > "Curiously enough, though he didn't know it, he was also a direct male-line descendant of Genghis Khan, though intervening generations and racial mixing had so juggled his genes that he had no discernible Mongoloid characteristics, and the only vestiges left in Mr. L. Prosser of his mighty ancestry were a pronounced stoutness about the tum and a predilection for little fur hats."
> >
> > </ob sf>
>
> Note that Douglas Adams came up with that line decades before GK's prolific
> sowing of wild oats in Asia was established.

If that factoid is valid, I think it did not go
entirely unsuspected. I mean, there wouldn't be
thousands of women going "Who was that masked man
with the vast horde of Mongol warriors?"

[Cryptoengineer]

Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in
news:81debba5-d1e0-4b54...@googlegroups.com:

> On Monday, 30 April 2018 19:53:44 UTC+1, Peter Trei wrote:
>> On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 2:41:37 PM UTC-4, Harold Hill wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 9:11:26 PM UTC-4, Greg Goss wrote:
>> > > Leo Sgouros <adra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 2:34:49 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire
>> > > >wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >> I disagree. There are numerous problems that could wipe out a
>> > > >> civilization such as meteoroid strike, fertility, barbarians,
>> > > >> etc, etc, etc.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Lynn
>> > > >
>> > > >I kinda like the idea of a fertility barbarian :-)
>> > >
>> > > http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/1-in-200-men-direct
>> > > -de scendants-of-genghis-khan/#.Wt_VbcgvyM8
>> >
>> > "Curiously enough, though he didn't know it, he was also a direct
>> > male-
> line descendant of Genghis Khan, though intervening generations and
> racial mixing had so juggled his genes that he had no discernible
> Mongoloid characteristics, and the only vestiges left in Mr. L.
> Prosser of his mighty ancestry were a pronounced stoutness about the
> tum and a predilection for little fur hats."
>> >
>> > </ob sf>
>>
>> Note that Douglas Adams came up with that line decades before GK's

>> prolif ic sowing of wild oats in Asia was established.

>
> If that factoid is valid, I think it did not go
> entirely unsuspected. I mean, there wouldn't be
> thousands of women going "Who was that masked man
> with the vast horde of Mongol warriors?"

Y-Chromosome evidence:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descent_from_Genghis_Khan#DNA_evidence

The evidence isn't exactly conclusive, but if you accept it, he may
have 16 million male descendents at the moment, and presumably a
similar number of female descendents.

pt

[synthi...@yahoo.com]

The Romans sorta did have a germ theory of disease. Vegetius wrote observations from different cultures, one of which claimed disease was caused by tiny invisible animals. The issue then would be implementation. Our own 19th ct. had some pretty vehement opposition to it.

Folks on history.what-if might give you more, but the group is down.

[Dimensional Traveler]

On 5/6/2018 6:11 AM, synthi...@yahoo.com wrote:
> The Romans sorta did have a germ theory of disease. Vegetius wrote observations from different cultures, one of which claimed disease was caused by tiny invisible animals. The issue then would be implementation. Our own 19th ct. had some pretty vehement opposition to it.
>
> Folks on history.what-if might give you more, but the group is down.
>

Soc.history.what-if is not down. Google responded to all the complaints
of people spamming if via Google Groups by blocking the newsgroup rather
than the spammers. Access an actual usenet server and there are people
still posting there.

[Kevrob]

On Sunday, May 6, 2018 at 12:28:54 PM UTC-4, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 5/6/2018 6:11 AM, synthi...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > The Romans sorta did have a germ theory of disease. Vegetius wrote observations from different cultures, one of which claimed disease was caused by tiny invisible animals. The issue then would be implementation. Our own 19th ct. had some pretty vehement opposition to it.
> >
> > Folks on history.what-if might give you more, but the group is down.
> >
> Soc.history.what-if is not down. Google responded to all the complaints
> of people spamming if via Google Groups by blocking the newsgroup rather
> than the spammers. Access an actual usenet server and there are people
> still posting there.
>

...or:

http://soc.history.what-if.narkive.com/

Kevin R