Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves

[James Nicoll]

Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves

https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Livejournal at http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

[Steve Coltrin]

begin fnord

jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:

> Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every
> True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
>
> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers

_Get Off the Unicorn_ is an anthology, and not a themed one. I'd replace
with an appropriate story from within, such as "Lady in the Tower".

(Important: titles of novels are italicized, titles of stories are
quoted.)

_The Many-Colored Land_ was on a prior core list, yes? Because otherwise
it'd be a shoe-in. I suppose _Intervention_ would still be eligible...

--
Steve Coltrin spco...@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <m2ingcc...@kelutral.omcl.org>,

Steve Coltrin <spco...@omcl.org> wrote:
>begin fnord
>jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
>
>> Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every
>> True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
>>
>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers
>
>_Get Off the Unicorn_ is an anthology, and not a themed one. I'd replace
>with an appropriate story from within, such as "Lady in the Tower".
>
>(Important: titles of novels are italicized, titles of stories are
>quoted.)
>
>_The Many-Colored Land_ was on a prior core list, yes? Because otherwise
>it'd be a shoe-in. I suppose _Intervention_ would still be eligible...
>

What were the psionics in the Bujold? I don't recall any (but it's
been a *long* time).
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[James Nicoll]

In article <m2ingcc...@kelutral.omcl.org>,
Steve Coltrin <spco...@omcl.org> wrote:

>begin fnord
>jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
>
>> Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every
>> True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
>>
>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers
>
>_Get Off the Unicorn_ is an anthology, and not a themed one. I'd replace
>with an appropriate story from within, such as "Lady in the Tower".

Thank you.

>(Important: titles of novels are italicized, titles of stories are
>quoted.)
>
>_The Many-Colored Land_ was on a prior core list, yes? Because otherwise
>it'd be a shoe-in. I suppose _Intervention_ would still be eligible...

It's been a long time since I read May. How has it aged?

[James Nicoll]

In article <f2hv2k...@mid.individual.net>,

Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>>
>
>What were the psionics in the Bujold? I don't recall any (but it's
>been a *long* time).

One of the people Ethan encounters is telepath Terrance C, who is on
the run from the people who created him.

[Carl Fink]

On 2017-09-21, James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
>
> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers

Wow, I've actually read 2/3 of these.
--
Carl Fink nitpi...@nitpicking.com

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!

[D B Davis]

James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
>
> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers

The only thing that keeps _Ubik_ (PKD) off your list is that you don't
like PKD. ;0)

Thank you,

--
Don

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

It's interesting that you could have cited several Nivens and everybody
classes him as "hard" (even when his math is off).

[James Nicoll]

In article <20170...@crcomp.net>, D B Davis <g...@crcomp.net> wrote:
>

Yeah, I just don't get the attraction of Dick's fiction. I suppose I
could put together a "Core Books James Doesn't Understand the Appeal
Of" for authors like Dick and Asaro and so on.

[James Nicoll]

In article <f2i2jb...@mid.individual.net>,

Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:

>In article <20170...@crcomp.net>, D B Davis <g...@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>
>>James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>> Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every True
>>SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
>>>
>>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers
>>
>>The only thing that keeps _Ubik_ (PKD) off your list is that you don't
>>like PKD. ;0)
>>
>>Thank you,
>>
>>--
>>Don
>
>It's interesting that you could have cited several Nivens and everybody
>classes him as "hard" (even when his math is off).

If I was going to cite a Niven, it would be A Gift from Earth. Mmmmmaybe
World of Ptavvs but more likely Gift.

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 13:30:27 +0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:

>Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
>
>https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers

Why isn't Phyllis Gotlieb's _Sunburst_ on there?

Also, isn't _Ingathering_ an omnibus of _No Different Flesh_ and
_Pilgrimage_? That's cheating.




--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Tom Derringer in the Tunnels of Terror.
See http://www.watt-evans.com/TomDerringerintheTunnelsofTerror.shtml

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 15:17:39 +0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:

>In article <20170...@crcomp.net>, D B Davis <g...@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>
>>James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>> Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every True
>>SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
>>>
>>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers
>>
>>The only thing that keeps _Ubik_ (PKD) off your list is that you don't
>>like PKD. ;0)
>>
>>Thank you,
>
>Yeah, I just don't get the attraction of Dick's fiction. I suppose I
>could put together a "Core Books James Doesn't Understand the Appeal
>Of" for authors like Dick and Asaro and so on.

Interesting -- I'm a huge fan of Philip Dick's work (at least, prior
to about 1974), don't care for Catherine Asaro's stories.

[Default User]

On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 10:02:06 AM UTC-5, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:

> It's interesting that you could have cited several Nivens and everybody
> classes him as "hard" (even when his math is off).

Well, I don't, for Known Space stuff anyway.


Brian

[Robert Woodward]

In article <oq0etj$ran$1...@reader2.panix.com>,

jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:

> Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every True SF Fan
> Should Have On Their Shelves
>
> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers

Read at least 10 (not certain about _Enchantress From the Stars_).
However, _Children of the Atom_? I don't remember the kids being
anything but very smart. Also, no Schmitz? (Or have you already used
_Witches of Karres_, _Undercurrents_, _The Telzey Toy_, and _The Lion
Game_?).

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
ã-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robe...@drizzle.com

[Stephen Graham]

On 9/21/2017 7:19 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <f2hv2k...@mid.individual.net>,
> Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>>>
>>
>> What were the psionics in the Bujold? I don't recall any (but it's
>> been a *long* time).
>
> One of the people Ethan encounters is telepath Terrance C, who is on
> the run from the people who created him.

There's also the matter of the resolution of the plot.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <0vn7sc587dubhpg5n...@reader80.eternal-september.org>,

Lawrence Watt-Evans <misencha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 13:30:27 +0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
>Nicoll) wrote:
>
>>Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every True
>SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
>>
>>https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers
>
>Why isn't Phyllis Gotlieb's _Sunburst_ on there?
>
>Also, isn't _Ingathering_ an omnibus of _No Different Flesh_ and
>_Pilgrimage_? That's cheating.

But it does provide a short way of referring to Henderson's
(practically) _opera omnia._

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

[David Johnston]

On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 9:02:06 AM UTC-6, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <20170...@crcomp.net>, D B Davis <g...@crcomp.net> wrote:
> >
> >James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every True
> >SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
> >>
> >> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers
> >
> >The only thing that keeps _Ubik_ (PKD) off your list is that you don't
> >like PKD. ;0)
> >
> >Thank you,
> >
> >--
> >Don
>
> It's interesting that you could have cited several Nivens and everybody
> classes him as "hard" (even when his math is off).

Niven was the old definition of "hard", where instead of religiously abjuring everything that smacks of witchcraft, "hard science fiction" just meant "science fiction that revolved around some real fact of science". Thus "Neutron Star" even though it requires impossibilities like FTL and an arbitrarily indestructible hull (and also people not _knowing_ that the vicinity of a neutron star is dangerous) is about a science fact and therefore was "hard".

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <78b47bc3-5dfd-4bad...@googlegroups.com>,

Yes, but the same setting has "Gil The ARM", "Plateau Eyes" & "Teela Brown".

[mcdow...@sky.com]

It's mostly there as a McGuffin, but there are some results from a research project to isolate and engineer a gene that provides some mind-reading ability when the reader is stimulated by the right selection of amino acids. Not surprisingly, Jackson's Whole is involved, but I can't remember if they originated the project - ah - it's also the obvious other suspect - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson%27s_Whole#Terrence_Cee for the right answer.

PS - Does anybody know which of James's whims or rules has ruled out James H. Schmitz from this list - and some others? Otherwise I would expect to see the Agent of Vega stories or the Telzey Amberdon stories, or others.

[James Nicoll]

In article <10cae900-8f31-4ea0...@googlegroups.com>,

I don't remember squat about Agent of Vega except I hated the cover
of the edition I had. Otherwise, it's the whole "lots of books that
could go on such a list, only twenty spots on the list" deal.

[James Nicoll]

In article <0vn7sc587dubhpg5n...@reader80.eternal-september.org>,
Lawrence Watt-Evans <misencha...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 13:30:27 +0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
>Nicoll) wrote:
>
>>Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every True
>SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
>>
>>https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers
>
>Why isn't Phyllis Gotlieb's _Sunburst_ on there?
>
>Also, isn't _Ingathering_ an omnibus of _No Different Flesh_ and
>_Pilgrimage_? That's cheating.
>

Not if Ingathering is the first and only form I've encountered those
stories in.

On a related note, I am incredibly torn between reviewing The Best of
Cordwainer Smith, which is very important to me, or The Rediscovery of
Man, which is complete...

[James Nicoll]

In article <94o7sctgk8ghg51e3...@reader80.eternal-september.org>,

Lawrence Watt-Evans <misencha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 15:17:39 +0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
>Nicoll) wrote:
>
>>In article <20170...@crcomp.net>, D B Davis <g...@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>> Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every True
>>>SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
>>>>
>>>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers
>>>
>>>The only thing that keeps _Ubik_ (PKD) off your list is that you don't
>>>like PKD. ;0)
>>>
>>>Thank you,
>>
>>Yeah, I just don't get the attraction of Dick's fiction. I suppose I
>>could put together a "Core Books James Doesn't Understand the Appeal
>>Of" for authors like Dick and Asaro and so on.
>
>Interesting -- I'm a huge fan of Philip Dick's work (at least, prior
>to about 1974), don't care for Catherine Asaro's stories.

There's bunches of stuff I seem to lack the receptors for. And
not in the "this is actively bad, what you thinking sense" but
no reaction at all. I don't often review the books in question
because I don't know how to stretch "meh" out to a thousand words.

[Lynn McGuire]

On 9/21/2017 8:30 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
> Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
>
> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers

I have read four of these. Bujold, Kurtz, Smith, and Vinge.

Lynn

[Moriarty]

On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 11:30:29 PM UTC+10, James Nicoll wrote:
> Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
>
> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers

Only three this time. The Bujold, Kurtz and Smith. Your inclusion of the Kurtz suggests that you're using "awesome mind powers" synonymously with "magic".

In keeping with your XX-chromosome theme, if I were to do such a list it would include Sheri S. Tepper's "The True Game" and Janny Wurts "Cycle of Fire", both of which contained magic that turned out to be mind powers with a scientific origin.

-Moriarty

[Lynn McGuire]

BTW, I would have added _The Tar-Aiym Krang_ by Alan Dean Foster.
https://www.amazon.com/Tar-Aiym-Krang-Alan-Dean-Foster/dp/034530280X/

And _Jumper_ by Steven Gould.
https://www.amazon.com/Jumper-Novel-Steven-Gould/dp/0765378167/

And for grins I might have thrown in Perry Rhodan's mutant corps.

I've still one other on the tip of my brain somewhere.

Lynn

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <oq0etj$ran$1...@reader2.panix.com>,

James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every True
>SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
>
>https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers

Another list where I'll "hmmm" and note that I've only read two of
these (Bujold and L'Engle) -- and I'd pick another L'Engle for sure.
(/A Swiftly Tilting Planet/ if you wanted to stick to the
Murry-O'Keefe side of things, otherwise /A Ring of Endless Light/.)
Pretty sure I own the Silverberg but haven't read it. And seconding
the suggestion that Julian May's /Intervention/ belongs on a list with
this title (quite a bit more so than the rather operatic Pliocene
Exile series).

Of course there's two bookshelves of Lackey that would absolutely fit
the theme, although it's probably not as well written as any of the
ones listed. Trying to think now -- does Diane Duane's /Stealing the
Elf-King's Roses/ qualify? There's also a bit of it in some of Elf
Sternberg's work, but I don't think that's the sort of thing that
James is likely to have read, or want to.

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
wol...@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)

[Moriarty]

On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 12:12:45 AM UTC+10, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <m2ingcc...@kelutral.omcl.org>,
> Steve Coltrin <spco...@omcl.org> wrote:
> >begin fnord
> >jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
> >
> >> Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every
> >> True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
> >>
> >> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers
>

> >(Important: titles of novels are italicized, titles of stories are
> >quoted.)
> >
> >_The Many-Colored Land_ was on a prior core list, yes? Because otherwise
> >it'd be a shoe-in. I suppose _Intervention_ would still be eligible...
>
> It's been a long time since I read May. How has it aged?

In my opinion, well. It's flaws haven't been exacerbated with time and it's strengths hold up. And Marc Remillard is still one of the great SF antagonists of all time.

-Moriarty

[Default User]

On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 2:53:19 PM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <10cae900-8f31-4ea0...@googlegroups.com>,
> <mcdow...@sky.com> wrote:

> >PS - Does anybody know which of James's whims or rules has ruled out
> >James H. Schmitz from this list - and some others? Otherwise I would
> >expect to see the Agent of Vega stories or the Telzey Amberdon stories,
> >or others.
>
> I don't remember squat about Agent of Vega except I hated the cover
> of the edition I had.

Which one was that? The first edition was pretty abstract, two others had white-haired space chick with a raygun.


Brian

[David Johnston]

Witchcraft I say! Witchcraft! Avaunt!

[Steve Coltrin]

begin fnord
jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:

> In article <m2ingcc...@kelutral.omcl.org>,
> Steve Coltrin <spco...@omcl.org> wrote:
>
>>_The Many-Colored Land_ was on a prior core list, yes? Because otherwise
>>it'd be a shoe-in. I suppose _Intervention_ would still be eligible...
>
> It's been a long time since I read May. How has it aged?

I read the Pliocene Exile every decade or so. The science is aware of how
rubber it is; I can live with the as-liberal-as-possible-without-being
-excommunicated-Catholic cosmology. Mercedes Lamballe is an order of
magnitude more loathsome now that I've met someone much like her,
but that doesn't make Nice Guy Bryan Grenfell less punchable. LGB
characters range from Bury Your Gays to the garbage fire that is Felice
Landry, but the trans character didn't get played for laughs much (you
don't need to when you've got a Narnia LARPer in the same cadre). It's
staying on my shelves (and someday I'll get around to reading the Milieu
trilogy, despite the third volume's flaws).

--
Steve Coltrin spco...@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press

[Chris Buckley]

On 2017-09-21, Lawrence Watt-Evans <misencha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 13:30:27 +0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
> Nicoll) wrote:
>
>>Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
>>
>>https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers
>
> Why isn't Phyllis Gotlieb's _Sunburst_ on there?
>

Yes, a very interesting book, thanks for the recommendation. I agree
that it should be on James' list. A cross between _Odd John_,
_More than Human_, and a bit of _Children of the Atom_ ("In Hiding"). It's
dated now (a bit of racism, sexism, and outdated views of relationship of
IQ to physical attributes), but I'm surprised I hadn't heard of it before;
it's good and seems like a major work from 1964. It is definitely the sort
of overlooked work that James is trying to promote.

Other works on my favorite bookcase that meet James's criteria include
_In Conquest Born_, _Witch World_, and _Reclamation_(Zettel).

Chris

[Mike Van Pelt]

In article <10cae900-8f31-4ea0...@googlegroups.com>,
<mcdow...@sky.com> wrote:

>PS - Does anybody know which of James's whims or rules has ruled
>out James H. Schmitz from this list - and some others? Otherwise
>I would expect to see the Agent of Vega stories or the Telzey
>Amberdon stories, or others.

Hm... I was going to go read the list, but any list which purports
to be "Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers
Every True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves" and leaves out
Telzey Amberdon is ... not interesting to me. At all.

--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston

[James Nicoll]

In article <232c8643-1469-4012...@googlegroups.com>,

White-haired space chick.

[James Nicoll]

In article <8aa087ad-9478-4aac...@googlegroups.com>,

Yeah, not much chance I will delve into Tepper's works, given that
I think she was a mad, mean so and so and it shows in her fiction.

[James Nicoll]

In article <oq1dlo$2kt5$1...@grapevine.csail.mit.edu>,

Garrett Wollman <wol...@bimajority.org> wrote:
>
>Of course there's two bookshelves of Lackey that would absolutely fit
>the theme, although it's probably not as well written as any of the
>ones listed.

I am not well read in Lackey but I did laugh out loud at the scene
where the kid who previous experiments in magic left him cursed (and
I think let out or got the attention of the Big Bad) decided it would
be ok to try again, on the assumption the stuff he didn't understand
wasn't important and the materials he lacked could be replaced by
whatever was handy. He got interrupted before he could carry through
on this.

[Steve Coltrin]

begin fnord
jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:

> Yeah, not much chance I will delve into Tepper's works, given that
> I think she was a mad, mean so and so and it shows in her fiction.

It sure as hell showed up in her guest blogging spots.

[Chris Buckley]

On 2017-09-21, Carl Fink <ca...@panix.com> wrote:

> On 2017-09-21, James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>> Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
>>
>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers
>

> Wow, I've actually read 2/3 of these.

I've read, or seen, 13 of this list, a bit above average.

_Shin Sekai Yori_ is, in my mind, one of the top three or so anime series
that have appeared in the past 5 years. This is an opinion that seems
to be shared by almost nobody!

Chris

[J. Clarke]

On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 23:51:44 GMT, m...@web1.calweb.com (Mike Van Pelt)
wrote:

>In article <10cae900-8f31-4ea0...@googlegroups.com>,
> <mcdow...@sky.com> wrote:
>>PS - Does anybody know which of James's whims or rules has ruled
>>out James H. Schmitz from this list - and some others? Otherwise
>>I would expect to see the Agent of Vega stories or the Telzey
>>Amberdon stories, or others.
>
>Hm... I was going to go read the list, but any list which purports
>to be "Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers
>Every True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves" and leaves out
>Telzey Amberdon is ... not interesting to me. At all.

And no Darkover either.

[Lynn McGuire]

That is the books that were on the tip of my brain !

Lynn

[James Nicoll]

In article <0rm8schrjibufe5l2...@4ax.com>,

MZB was even creepier than Tepper.

[James Nicoll]

In article <oq1nob$c4u$1...@reader2.panix.com>,

James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <0rm8schrjibufe5l2...@4ax.com>,
>J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 23:51:44 GMT, m...@web1.calweb.com (Mike Van Pelt)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article <10cae900-8f31-4ea0...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> <mcdow...@sky.com> wrote:
>>>>PS - Does anybody know which of James's whims or rules has ruled
>>>>out James H. Schmitz from this list - and some others? Otherwise
>>>>I would expect to see the Agent of Vega stories or the Telzey
>>>>Amberdon stories, or others.
>>>
>>>Hm... I was going to go read the list, but any list which purports
>>>to be "Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers
>>>Every True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves" and leaves out
>>>Telzey Amberdon is ... not interesting to me. At all.
>>
>>And no Darkover either.
>
>MZB was even creepier than Tepper.

And I hate Darkover with a passion.

[Robert Woodward]

In article <oq1jkr$7vf$1...@reader2.panix.com>,

jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:

> In article <232c8643-1469-4012...@googlegroups.com>,
> Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 2:53:19 PM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
> >> In article <10cae900-8f31-4ea0...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> <mcdow...@sky.com> wrote:
> >
> >> >PS - Does anybody know which of James's whims or rules has ruled out
> >> >James H. Schmitz from this list - and some others? Otherwise I would
> >> >expect to see the Agent of Vega stories or the Telzey Amberdon stories,
> >> >or others.
> >>
> >> I don't remember squat about Agent of Vega except I hated the cover
> >> of the edition I had.
> >
> >Which one was that? The first edition was pretty abstract, two others
> >had white-haired space chick with a raygun.
> >
> White-haired space chick.

It should be white-feathered queen with a raygun (you should speak of
Pagadan politely).

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
ã-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robe...@drizzle.com

[David DeLaney]

On 2017-09-21, James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:

> Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every True SF Fan
> Should Have

Telekinetically Filed With Their Slan Powers

> On Their Shelves
>
> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers

I have read nine of them, it turns out, and enjoyed most. It looks like there's
some more here I -want- to read, which for some reason isn't my usual reaction
to these posts? Must think about that.

Dave, adding to list
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[David DeLaney]

On 2017-09-21, Moriarty <blu...@ivillage.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 11:30:29 PM UTC+10, James Nicoll wrote:
> Only three this time. The Bujold, Kurtz and Smith. Your inclusion of the
> Kurtz suggests that you're using "awesome mind powers" synonymously with
> "magic".

... They are -treating- it like magic because that's the framework they have to
understand it with. (Catholic magic, at that.) But reading from our time and
paadigms makes it pretty clear that at least some of it really is 'awesome mind
powers'. And remember Stasheff's Law - "Any sufficiently advanced psionics is
indistinguishable from magic".

Dave, not to be confused with Bradley's Law, yadda yadda psionics yadda yadda
technology

[Carl Fink]

On 2017-09-21, James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:

> In article <232c8643-1469-4012...@googlegroups.com>,
> Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 2:53:19 PM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:

>>> I don't remember squat about Agent of Vega except I hated the cover
>>> of the edition I had.
>>
>>Which one was that? The first edition was pretty abstract, two others
>>had white-haired space chick with a raygun.
>>
> White-haired space chick.

I actually remember hating that cover back in the day myself. It definitely
made a strong impression.
--
Carl Fink nitpi...@nitpicking.com

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!

[Bernard Peek]

On 2017-09-22, James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <oq1nob$c4u$1...@reader2.panix.com>,
> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>In article <0rm8schrjibufe5l2...@4ax.com>,
>>J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 23:51:44 GMT, m...@web1.calweb.com (Mike Van Pelt)
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <10cae900-8f31-4ea0...@googlegroups.com>,
>>>> <mcdow...@sky.com> wrote:
>>>>>PS - Does anybody know which of James's whims or rules has ruled
>>>>>out James H. Schmitz from this list - and some others? Otherwise
>>>>>I would expect to see the Agent of Vega stories or the Telzey
>>>>>Amberdon stories, or others.
>>>>
>>>>Hm... I was going to go read the list, but any list which purports
>>>>to be "Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers
>>>>Every True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves" and leaves out
>>>>Telzey Amberdon is ... not interesting to me. At all.
>>>
>>>And no Darkover either.
>>
>>MZB was even creepier than Tepper.
>
> And I hate Darkover with a passion.

That explains what I saw as ab omission. The other thing missing (IMHO) is
John Brunner's fix-up Telepathist, The Whole Man in the USA. To my mind it's
the best treatment of telepathy that I know of.


--
Bernard Peek
b...@gizmodynamics.com

[Jack Bohn]

James Nicoll wrote:
>
> On a related note, I am incredibly torn between reviewing The Best of
> Cordwainer Smith, which is very important to me, or The Rediscovery of
> Man, which is complete...

Does Rediscovery have a timeline like the one in Best? I think that one was made by someone at Del Rey; similar ones appear in Known Space and at least one other series. Not that that need be a tiebreaker, a thousand years passing between groups of a few stories is not quite the same as disentangling van Rijn/Falkayn/Flandry and points in between.

--
-Jack

[Jack Bohn]

Interesting in that my sister was into Henderson's The People more than the rest of us kids, and my older brother was into the Deryni *way* more than any of us. Perhaps there's something personal about the thought of Secret Hidden Powers of the Human Mind that responds to specific treatment of the theme. Me? I'm generally nonplussed at stories that focus on Secret Hidden Powers of the Human Mind. I did pursue L'Engle's trilogy back when it was just a trilogy, but there's a lot there besides the SHPotHM (perhaps I should have coined my disdainful phrase so it would acronym to psionics). So maybe I'm over-elaborating and the way an author handles psionics has no more weight than the way she handles other elements in building a fandom.

Besides the three above, I've read some of the NW Smith tales, and maybe started _Gray Lensman_, if that's the one generally packaged after _Triplanetary_.

--
Jack

[Greg Goss]

t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote:

>In article <m2ingcc...@kelutral.omcl.org>,
>Steve Coltrin <spco...@omcl.org> wrote:

>>begin fnord
>>jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
>>

>>> Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every
>>> True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
>>>

>>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers
>>
>>_Get Off the Unicorn_ is an anthology, and not a themed one. I'd replace
>>with an appropriate story from within, such as "Lady in the Tower".

>>
>>(Important: titles of novels are italicized, titles of stories are
>>quoted.)
>>

>>_The Many-Colored Land_ was on a prior core list, yes? Because otherwise
>>it'd be a shoe-in. I suppose _Intervention_ would still be eligible...
>>
>

>What were the psionics in the Bujold? I don't recall any (but it's
>been a *long* time).















spoilers








The Jacksonians were chasing a telepath. The focus character was
chasing viable ovaries. If I recall correctly, the telepath had
subverted the ovary production process so that they all contained the
recessive telepathy gene .

By accepting the shipment, the focus character expects a lot of
telepaths to start showing up in the SECOND generation.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.

[Default User]

On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 6:57:17 PM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <232c8643-1469-4012...@googlegroups.com>,
> Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 2:53:19 PM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:

> >> I don't remember squat about Agent of Vega except I hated the cover
> >> of the edition I had.
> >
> >Which one was that? The first edition was pretty abstract, two others
> >had white-haired space chick with a raygun.
> >
> White-haired space chick.

Here's a convenient link with many of the covers and discussion of the stories.

http://mporcius.blogspot.com/2016/12/agent-of-vega-by-james-h-schmitz.html



Brian

[David DeLaney]

On 2017-09-22, Jack Bohn <jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Besides the three above, I've read some of the NW Smith tales, and maybe
> started _Gray Lensman_, if that's the one generally packaged after
> _Triplanetary_.

_Gray_ is usually after, at least, _Galactic Patrol_, and _First_ sometimes
gets put in between that and _Triplanetary_.

_Children_ is pretty canonically last, and _Vortex Blaster_ is pretty
canonically a side story (though an also-epic one).

Dave, 'Cahuitan!' "...gesundheit?"

[Mike Van Pelt]

In article <f66f4f87-4187-4aed...@googlegroups.com>,

Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 6:57:17 PM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
>> In article <232c8643-1469-4012...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 2:53:19 PM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
>
>> >> I don't remember squat about Agent of Vega except I hated the cover
>> >> of the edition I had.
>> >
>> >Which one was that? The first edition was pretty abstract, two others
>> >had white-haired space chick with a raygun.
>> >
>> White-haired space chick.
>
>Here's a convenient link with many of the covers and discussion of the stories.
>
>http://mporcius.blogspot.com/2016/12/agent-of-vega-by-james-h-schmitz.html

Hm... The copy of "Agent of Vega" I had wasn't any of those covers,
I don't think. I recall it being a typical pulp SF type cover, it
didn't make much of an impression on me.

What did make an impression on me was the story. I did not like it.
At all. I don't recall much about it, other than my dislike. Which
was surprising to me, as I've really liked almost everything else
by Schmitz that I've read. ("Witches of Karres" was a little more
"meh", but most of it, I've liked a lot.)

My copy was long ago sold back to the used book store, I think.

[Gene Wirchenko]

On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 09:02:00 -0700 (PDT), Default User

<defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 6:57:17 PM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
>> In article <232c8643-1469-4012...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 2:53:19 PM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
>
>> >> I don't remember squat about Agent of Vega except I hated the cover
>> >> of the edition I had.
>> >
>> >Which one was that? The first edition was pretty abstract, two others
>> >had white-haired space chick with a raygun.
>> >
>> White-haired space chick.
>
>Here's a convenient link with many of the covers and discussion of the stories.
>
>http://mporcius.blogspot.com/2016/12/agent-of-vega-by-james-h-schmitz.html

I do not care for either version of "space chick".

Forother amusement, scroll down some. The cover for _Space
Police_ looks like the man in the foreground is getting ready to kiss
the rocket.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <0n3esc9dhf2hju2hk...@4ax.com>,

To the best of my remembrance, "Space Fear" was the first SF
story I read. I read it over my mother's shoulder, and IIRC she
had to explain a few things. March 1951 ... I would've been
pushing nine; older than I'd thought.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 17:17:33 -0600, Steve Coltrin <spco...@omcl.org>
wrote:

>begin fnord
>jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
>
>> In article <m2ingcc...@kelutral.omcl.org>,
>> Steve Coltrin <spco...@omcl.org> wrote:
>>
>>>_The Many-Colored Land_ was on a prior core list, yes? Because otherwise
>>>it'd be a shoe-in. I suppose _Intervention_ would still be eligible...
>>
>> It's been a long time since I read May. How has it aged?
>
>I read the Pliocene Exile every decade or so. The science is aware of how
>rubber it is; I can live with the as-liberal-as-possible-without-being
>-excommunicated-Catholic cosmology. Mercedes Lamballe is an order of
>magnitude more loathsome now that I've met someone much like her,
>but that doesn't make Nice Guy Bryan Grenfell less punchable. LGB
>characters range from Bury Your Gays to the garbage fire that is Felice
>Landry, but the trans character didn't get played for laughs much (you
>don't need to when you've got a Narnia LARPer in the same cadre). It's
>staying on my shelves (and someday I'll get around to reading the Milieu
>trilogy, despite the third volume's flaws).

_Intervention_ also stands up well, better than the Milieu triplet which
was unsurprisingly a mild disappointment even on release.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
None of this will matter in 20 billion years.

[Johnny1A]

On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 12:10:31 PM UTC-5, Robert Woodward wrote:
> In article <oq0etj$ran$1...@reader2.panix.com>,

> jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>
> > Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every True SF Fan
> > Should Have On Their Shelves
> >
> > https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers
>

> Read at least 10 (not certain about _Enchantress From the Stars_).

I remember that one. I read it as a kid, and I remember liking it, and finding it full of interesting ideas...not all of which I fully comprehended at the time. The funny thing is that as I recall it now, the 'good guys' don't look so good in retrospect. You can look at Elena's people as the 'good guys', but a counter-argument can definitely be made.

It also seems to me that a 'negative selecton' effect would tend to turn the idealistic Federation 'primitive people protection service' (I forget what they called themselves) into something more cynical and nasty, precisely because the idealists are so willing to sacrifice themselves (and their offspring) in the service of idealistic goals. The less idealistic ones would survive better.

[Johnny1A]

On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 1:26:44 PM UTC-5, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <78b47bc3-5dfd-4bad...@googlegroups.com>,
> David Johnston <davidjohnst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 9:02:06 AM UTC-6, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> >> In article <20170...@crcomp.net>, D B Davis <g...@crcomp.net> wrote:

> >> >
> >> >James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> >> Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every True
> >> >SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
> >> >>
> >> >> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers
> >> >

> >> >The only thing that keeps _Ubik_ (PKD) off your list is that you don't
> >> >like PKD. ;0)
> >> >
> >> >Thank you,
> >> >
> >> >--
> >> >Don
> >>
> >> It's interesting that you could have cited several Nivens and everybody
> >> classes him as "hard" (even when his math is off).
> >
> >Niven was the old definition of "hard", where instead of religiously
> >abjuring everything that smacks of witchcraft, "hard science fiction"
> >just meant "science fiction that revolved around some real fact of
> >science". Thus "Neutron Star" even though it requires impossibilities
> >like FTL and an arbitrarily indestructible hull (and also people not
> >_knowing_ that the vicinity of a neutron star is dangerous) is about a
> >science fact and therefore was "hard".
>
> Yes, but the same setting has "Gil The ARM", "Plateau Eyes" & "Teela Brown".
> --
> ------
> columbiaclosings.com
> What's not in Columbia anymore..

None of which _inherently_ makes the setting less _hard_. It depends on how they are _handled_.

(Well, Teela is a special case. Niven himself could never make up his mind afterward whether the 'luck gene' was real in-story or not.)

[Johnny1A]

On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 6:05:38 PM UTC-5, David Johnston wrote:

> On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 12:26:44 PM UTC-6, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:

> >
> > Yes, but the same setting has "Gil The ARM", "Plateau Eyes" & "Teela Brown".
>

> Witchcraft I say! Witchcraft! Avaunt!

Contrast that to _Skylark Duquesne_, in which at least some of the psi powers were _explicitly_ witchcraft. Arguably that applies to the presentation of psionics in _Subspace Explorers_, too. The axiom applied in both is 'the map is the territory', which takes you pretty far toward actual traditional definitions of magic. It's the principle Angelique Collins uses to choke people with dolls.

In _Lensman_, though, psi is a physical phenomenon and presented as such.

[Johnny1A]

On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 11:53:04 AM UTC-5, David DeLaney wrote:
> On 2017-09-22, Jack Bohn <jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Besides the three above, I've read some of the NW Smith tales, and maybe
> > started _Gray Lensman_, if that's the one generally packaged after
> > _Triplanetary_.
>
> _Gray_ is usually after, at least, _Galactic Patrol_, and _First_ sometimes
> gets put in between that and _Triplanetary_.
>
> _Children_ is pretty canonically last, and _Vortex Blaster_ is pretty
> canonically a side story (though an also-epic one).

In terms of the time-line _in story_, the Lensman series runs as follows:

Triplanetary
First Lensman
Galactic Patrol
Gray Lensman
Second Stage Lensman
Vortex Blaster
Children of the Lens

But they were not written in that order or published in that order. Nor is it necessary (though it helps) to read them in that order, I didn't.

Oddly enough, in many ways the most competent enemy character faced by the main hero of most of the stories, Helmuth, appears and is defeated early on. Kimball Kinnison doesn't meet an enemy character more dangerous than Helmuth until he meets up with Fossten/Gharlane.

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

On 10/9/17 11:36 PM, Johnny1A wrote:
> On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 6:05:38 PM UTC-5, David Johnston wrote:
>> On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 12:26:44 PM UTC-6, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Yes, but the same setting has "Gil The ARM", "Plateau Eyes" & "Teela Brown".
>>
>> Witchcraft I say! Witchcraft! Avaunt!
>
> Contrast that to _Skylark Duquesne_, in which at least some of the psi powers were _explicitly_ witchcraft.

But just as explicitly "that's just a word, it's another science. See,
we are building a machine to make use of this phenomenon". That is, it
had nothing numinous in it, it was just another power that the
Skylarkers hadn't encountered yet; once they did, Seaton, Crane, and
DuQuesne were able to make use of it.

>
> In _Lensman_, though, psi is a physical phenomenon and presented as such.
>

To the contrary, it's explicit that it is NOT physical; if it were, the
Lens could be copied by the scientists of Civilization, who had mastered
most of the physical world. The nonphysical nature of the powers of the
mind is explicitly why the Lens can be what it is.



--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.dreamwidth.org

[Johnny1A]

Civilization's scientists had not mastered most of the physical world, only as m9ost of as much of it as L0 and L1 minds could comprehend. The physics of Civilization, for ex, couldn't handle the problem of inert objects with FTL velocities in our spacetime, the math was beyond L0 comprehension, Mentor even had to call in an Arisian specialist to deal with it.

Note that Eddore did eventually duplicate the Lens, too.

The 'physical/philosophical' distinction in the Lensman stories is a function of L0 incomprehension.

[Robert Carnegie]

Thought was just a different kind of energy, and there
was a particular death-ray that simply neutralised your
thought-energy, thus deleting your mind and instantly
killing you - although I don't remember now if that
happened in Smith or Lens canon or in another author
using the setting (ahem). It struck me as creepy.
I suppose that a weapon which bodily dematerialises you
is just as creepy. AKKA. But this ignored the body
and destroyed the soul.

[Robert Carnegie]

Gil The ARM, Niven's guy, uses "map is the territory"
to search an area of Moon surface (where he is), by
getting a live holographic satellite image set up in
front of him, and rummaging in it with his psychic
imaginary hand. Although that seems to be more about
providing a plausible physical analogue for what he's
making his psi talent do; this psi stops working if
the psi person doesn't believe in it.

[Mike Van Pelt]

In article <28641ce8-affb-4072...@googlegroups.com>,

Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>Thought was just a different kind of energy, and there
>was a particular death-ray that simply neutralised your
>thought-energy, thus deleting your mind and instantly
>killing you - although I don't remember now if that
>happened in Smith or Lens canon or in another author
>using the setting (ahem). It struck me as creepy.
>I suppose that a weapon which bodily dematerialises you
>is just as creepy. AKKA. But this ignored the body
>and destroyed the soul.

It was one of the later Lensman books. Worsel, I think,
invented it, and said that Kimball Kinnison was the
only being in the universe he'd trust to with something
like that. I think I recall it was in a ring. Kinnison
running through a Boskonian military installation, leaving
no thing alive behind him.

[Johnny1A]

Yeah, in Gil's case, the map thing is just a quirk of his powers, his TK ability and ESP faculty aren't _really_ a third arm, that's just how he conceptualized it and so that's how he had to use it. At one point Gil even muses that in theory he could learn to use it more 'naturally' and get the full range (his power had a latent range that was probably at least global) and so forth...but if he tried and ended up messing up his way of thinking about it, he might easily lose it, too. So it made sense to be content with it as was.

In the case of Smith's _Skylark Duquesne_ and _Subspace_ stories, the map really is the territory. In the _Subspace_ stories, Carl Deston is the most powerful 'element sensing' ESPer of his generation. Once he learns to accept that he is what he is, he can sense and analyze the entire periodic table, where most of his ilk can only 'work' with the lighter elements. Even his very powerful wife can't match his talent for that specialty.

But he can use this power not only directly, scanning a region for the element he is seeking, but on a globe or map. The more detailed the map, the clearer his perception of the real thing. This edges toward sympathetic magic, rather than an unknown type of sense perception. It also opens up a whole can of works that Smith ignored, but lie inherent in the concept. IMHO, the story would have been better if Smith had left that aspect out, just let Deston have a range limit and leave it at that.

It's probably not a coincidence that _Skylark Duquesne_ and the _Subspace_ stories were written at about the same time.

[Johnny1A]

Actually, no. That device was quite non-psionic. Worsel had discovered that all organic life forms (I assume he meant oxygen-breathing, carbon based life of 'our sort', below L3 level) used a common chemical that was critical to the thought processes of the brain. It was a heavy, complicated molecule that was easy to disrupt with a little physical radiation, subtly applied, and the target would die when their brain quit working because that key chemical was gone. It was an entirely 'mundane' device, though breathtakingly deadly. A true, literal 'death ray'. It had no effect on anything else, and used only, IIRC, a few milliwatts of power.

[Paul Colquhoun]

On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 21:37:55 -0700 (PDT), Johnny1A <johnny1...@gmail.com> wrote:

| Yeah, in Gil's case, the map thing is just a quirk of his powers, his
| TK ability and ESP faculty aren't _really_ a third arm, that's just
| how he conceptualized it and so that's how he had to use it. At one
| point Gil even muses that in theory he could learn to use it more
| 'naturally' and get the full range (his power had a latent range that
| was probably at least global) and so forth...but if he tried and ended
| up messing up his way of thinking about it, he might easily lose it,
| too. So it made sense to be content with it as was.

As i remember he was on a video call at one point, and reached "through
the screen" to move a pen on the other persons desk. So it was at least
continent spanning, in the right circumstances (i.e. if it still
*looked* like it was in arms reach).


--
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, ULC. http://andor.dropbear.id.au/
Asking for technical help in newsgroups? Read this first:
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro

[Juho Julkunen]

In article <e2b278be-1aba-4639...@googlegroups.com>,
johnny1...@gmail.com says...

And then they made the mistake of only giving one to Kinnison, who
mostly refused to use it, since he considered it unsporting compared to
a good old DeLameter. Or caving somebody's brain in with a space-axe.

--
Juho Julkunen

[Johnny1A]

He used it quite a bit in _Second Stage Lensman_, at one point he used it wipe out the entire guard force of one of his targets. By SSL Kinnison was deliberately taking a leaf from Nadreck's book and setting aside concepts like 'fair', instead focusing purely on what pragmatically works.

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

Because the Eddorians were very nearly the equal of the Arisians in the
science of the mind.

Mentor is explicit that this is the difference between any other means
of identification and communication and the Lens. All the others rely on
the science of the physical; the Lens is purely a product of the science
of the mind; it's not even really a device so much as a symbiotic mind.

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

On 10/10/17 5:34 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:

> Thought was just a different kind of energy, and there
> was a particular death-ray that simply neutralised your
> thought-energy, thus deleting your mind and instantly
> killing you - although I don't remember now if that
> happened in Smith or Lens canon or in another author
> using the setting (ahem).

You may be confusing the description of the Thorndyke-designed weapon
that broke down the key molecule in organic brains that permitted
thought. If such as thing as the soul existed, it had no effect on that;
it was a purely physical thing using a resonance effect to break down a
particular substance.

It didn't do anything to actual psionic energies, and wouldn't have
bothered an Arisian in the least, as they were no longer physical beings.

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

On 10/10/17 7:27 PM, Mike Van Pelt wrote:
> In article <28641ce8-affb-4072...@googlegroups.com>,
> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>> Thought was just a different kind of energy, and there
>> was a particular death-ray that simply neutralised your
>> thought-energy, thus deleting your mind and instantly
>> killing you - although I don't remember now if that
>> happened in Smith or Lens canon or in another author
>> using the setting (ahem). It struck me as creepy.
>> I suppose that a weapon which bodily dematerialises you
>> is just as creepy. AKKA. But this ignored the body
>> and destroyed the soul.
>
> It was one of the later Lensman books. Worsel, I think,
> invented it,

Worsel came up with the idea; Thorndyke designed and built it.

> and said that Kimball Kinnison was the
> only being in the universe he'd trust to with something
> like that. I think I recall it was in a ring. Kinnison
> running through a Boskonian military installation, leaving
> no thing alive behind him.
>

But again, it was a purely physical weapon, destroying a particular
molecule responsible for mediating thought in organic brains. Not
something negating people's mental energies.

[Johnny1A]

But there again, that's most a matter of perception. Mentor is explaining it as clearly as he can for the perception and understanding of <L3 minds. The science of the mind is a science, 'immutable of law' as 'Bergonholm' put it, it's only 'not physical' in the sense of 'reality as Tellurians understood it'. It expressly is not supernatural.

The Eddorians and Arisians see the universe in a way literally beyond our comprehension, they can't even express the real reality in our terms because it's outside our frame of reference entirely, sort of like trying to explain the ideal gas law to a gorilla.

[Johnny1A]

On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 5:15:22 PM UTC-5, Garrett Wollman wrote:
> In article <oq0etj$ran$1...@reader2.panix.com>,

> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> >Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every True
> >SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
> >
> >https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers
>

> Another list where I'll "hmmm" and note that I've only read two of
> these (Bujold and L'Engle) -- and I'd pick another L'Engle for sure.
> (/A Swiftly Tilting Planet/ if you wanted to stick to the
> Murry-O'Keefe side of things, otherwise /A Ring of Endless Light/.)
> Pretty sure I own the Silverberg but haven't read it. And seconding
> the suggestion that Julian May's /Intervention/ belongs on a list with
> this title (quite a bit more so than the rather operatic Pliocene
> Exile series).
>
> Of course there's two bookshelves of Lackey that would absolutely fit
> the theme, although it's probably not as well written as any of the
> ones listed.

The problem with Mercedes Lackey is...it's not that she can't write, she can. It's that her peculiar perception of things comes through and messes up what might otherwise be workable story ideas, esp. stories set in 'our world'.

The best Lackey stuff I've read always had a coauthor tempering it.

[Mike Van Pelt]

In article <8c25e2c5-6086-45e3...@googlegroups.com>,

Johnny1A <johnny1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>The Eddorians and Arisians see the universe in a way literally
>beyond our comprehension, they can't even express the real
>reality in our terms because it's outside our frame of reference
>entirely, sort of like trying to explain the ideal gas law to a
>gorilla.

Or, perhaps, like trying to explain the geography of Japan
to Ms PacMan.

[Greg Goss]

m...@web1.calweb.com (Mike Van Pelt) wrote:

>In article <8c25e2c5-6086-45e3...@googlegroups.com>,
>Johnny1A <johnny1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>The Eddorians and Arisians see the universe in a way literally
>>beyond our comprehension, they can't even express the real
>>reality in our terms because it's outside our frame of reference
>>entirely, sort of like trying to explain the ideal gas law to a
>>gorilla.
>
>Or, perhaps, like trying to explain the geography of Japan
>to Ms PacMan.

One of the google doodles let you overlay a pacman game onto your
local map grid. Is that what you're suggesting?
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.

[mcdow...@sky.com]

I remember Lensmen being pretty consistently portrayed as having a desire to win that much brushed aside any other considerations. I also remember Kimball Kinnison explaining to Nadreck that the problem with Nadreck's preferred MO of minimal risk assassination was that it didn't produce intelligence for further targets. I think it is at least consistent with the books that Kimball Kinnison never considered what was fair. "Killer" Kinnison in Triplanetary certainly never did.

[Mike Van Pelt]

In article <f4b3vg...@mid.individual.net>,

Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>m...@web1.calweb.com (Mike Van Pelt) wrote:
>
>>In article <8c25e2c5-6086-45e3...@googlegroups.com>,
>>Johnny1A <johnny1...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> ... sort of like trying to explain the ideal gas law to a

>>>gorilla.
>>
>>Or, perhaps, like trying to explain the geography of Japan
>>to Ms PacMan.
>
>One of the google doodles let you overlay a pacman game onto your
>local map grid. Is that what you're suggesting?

Huh. No, I didn't know about that. I was thinking something
that isn't even remotely related to a concept that exists in
Ms PacMan's universe.

Say, "... like explaining the geopolitics that led up to
Commodore Perry's fleet sailing into Tokyo Harbor, and
the results, through WWII and the rebuilding up to the
21st Century to Ms. PacMan."

(Picking on Japan because PacMan was made by a Japanese company.)

[David DeLaney]

On 2017-10-11, Johnny1A <johnny1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah, in Gil's case, the map thing is just a quirk of his powers, his TK
> ability and ESP faculty aren't _really_ a third arm, that's just how he
> conceptualized it and so that's how he had to use it. At one point Gil even
> muses that in theory he could learn to use it more 'naturally' and get the
> full range (his power had a latent range that was probably at least global)
> and so forth...but if he tried and ended up messing up his way of thinking
> about it, he might easily lose it, too. So it made sense to be content with
> it as was.

It was demonstrated in at least one story that it was, quite literally, line of
sight range - he reached _through_ the equivalent of a Skype call screen to
{redacted} someone on the other end of the call. If he could see an accurate
representation of whatever, and it was in reach of his arm, he could affect it.

(Niven seems to have missed a whole slew of possible uses for his talent,
including e.g. reaching into a projected view from a tiny camera inside a
person to help with surgery, or into a CAT scan... or into the Hubble Deep
Space slice. It's all in the ramifications.)

> It's probably not a coincidence that _Skylark Duquesne_ and the _Subspace_
> stories were written at about the same time.

Dave, currently rereading _The Galaxy Primes_
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[Johnny1A]

Rod Kinnison was much older and more experienced, in _First Lensman_, than Kimball is as of _Galactic Patrol_. Kimball isn't quite a nai in GP, but he's got a lot to learn, too, lessons 'Rod the Rock' had already learned by the time we meet him. (Though the quote about 'blowing away innocent bystanders' from _First Lensman_ was pretty clearly Rod being sarcastic).

For ex, KK was initially fixated on _personal_ bravery as a key virtue, he had to learn by watching Nadreck that there were times when it was better to work in the background and 'play dirty'. Likewise, the young KK had qualms about fighting women, I suspect he outgrew that too as he got older and more experienced.

There's no contradiction between KK admitting to himself in _Second Stage Lensman_ that Nadreck's approach was often right, and also being frustrated at Nadreck's own limitations. Each approach, the human and the Palainian, has its strengths and weaknesses. Nadreck could learn from Kinnison just as well as Kinnison could from Nadreck.

[Mike Van Pelt]

In article <b2686695-17b8-4883...@googlegroups.com>,

Johnny1A <johnny1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>There's no contradiction between KK admitting to himself in
>_Second Stage Lensman_ that Nadreck's approach was often right,
>and also being frustrated at Nadreck's own limitations. Each
>approach, the human and the Palainian, has its strengths and
>weaknesses. Nadreck could learn from Kinnison just as well as
>Kinnison could from Nadreck.

And Nadreck did.

I thought it was quite amusing that Nadreck considered it a
humiliating moral failure when circumstances required him to
abandon his customary risk-adverse behind the scenes approach,
and take on the Boskonians in an act of personal derring-do.

[Johnny1A]

On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 5:01:13 PM UTC-5, Mike Van Pelt wrote:

>
> I thought it was quite amusing that Nadreck considered it a
> humiliating moral failure when circumstances required him to
> abandon his customary risk-adverse behind the scenes approach,
> and take on the Boskonians in an act of personal derring-do.

Interesting point. I had not looked at that particular incident through that lens before, but Nadreck _was_ more-or-less doing the same thing toward KK that KK did toward Nadreck. I could even imagine Nadreck having the same reluctant admission in his own mind that Kinnison's default approach could sometimes be necessary, even if it went against the grain.

Regarding psi powers, it's interesting that in the _Lensman_ stories, the only psi ability available to the lesser races is telepathy. KK never shows any track of any of the other classical powers. But those powers (or something) _do_ exist in-universe, because the Arisians and the Eddorians use them routinely. Mentor, for ex, at one point intervenes to change all the records, pictures, physical evidence, anywhere in the universe, that might give away Kimbal Kinnison's legend as Traska Gannell.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <64a673f8-696f-4735...@googlegroups.com>,

Been a looooong time since I read, but is there *any* human psi power
without a lens? Isn't the fact there there is no, say, telekensis
simply because the lens doesn't supply it?

Of course the Children have non-lens-based powers, but they're not exactly
human anymore.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[Johnny1A]

On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 8:30:29 AM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
> Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
>
> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers

> --

Mileage varies about whether it is SF or not, but Steven King's _Firestarter_ belongs on the list, IMHO. Both because of the obvious ability, the little girl's pyrokinetic power, and also (and IMHO more so) because of how King treats the awakened power in her father.

Recall that after the experiment in college, the little girl's parents manifested very weak powers. Her mother had a PK faculty so weak that her husband wasn't sure she herself consciously knew about it, though he observed her using it now and then in subtle ways.

The father's power was just about as subtle, but more potent, he called it 'the push'. It was basically a telepathic compulsion. He couldn't do a Charles Xavier but he could put an idea or an impulse into somebody's head.

What makes this interesting is that King adds something that strikes me as more than likely if telepathy is real, but which used to be rarely seen in fiction: that messing with somebody else's mind, even subtly, is likely to have side effects. In some people, subconscious interactions produce bizarre compulsions or impulses that the telepath didn't intend. Keep using the power on someone over and over, and permanent damage can follow.

In _The Dresden Files_, Jim Butcher applies this same logic more forcefully. In those stories, telepathy is explicitly magic, but it's hinted/implied that magic is itself a natural phenomenon. But the wizard's guild has two hard rules against either reading people's minds or coercing their actions by telepathy, and the penalty for doing so is _death_...and they _aren't kidding_.

The reason is that reading another human mind always does some harm, and forcing them to change their course of action telepathically, even in minor ways and with the best of intentions, does more. They subconsciously sense that they aren't doing what they would have done of their own free will, and struggle against the compulsion. A minor compulsion can produce symptoms akin to PTSD, anything very significant can produce madness.

King's approach, and Butcher's, actually strike me as plausible. Minds are incredibly complicated, it seems reasonable that tampering is likely to have various 'interesting' and probably unpredictable side effects for the subject.

[Johnny1A]

On Thursday, October 19, 2017 at 10:54:52 PM UTC-5, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:

>
> Been a looooong time since I read, but is there *any* human psi power
> without a lens? Isn't the fact there there is no, say, telekensis
> simply because the lens doesn't supply it?
>
> Of course the Children have non-lens-based powers, but they're not exactly
> human anymore.

Yes, non-Lensed human telepaths exist, though they are rare. In _Vortex Blaster_, for ex, Neil Cloud's second wife is a self-taught telepath, and she teaches him to do it too, and he becomes better at it than she is, and neither is a Lensman.

Likewise, Kimball Kinnison learns that he can use telepathy on his own, too.

As Mentor tells Virgil Samms, Lenses have no power of their own, they only make available what is already latent in the wearer.

[David Johnston]

On 2017-10-19 9:54 PM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <64a673f8-696f-4735...@googlegroups.com>,
> Johnny1A <johnny1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 5:01:13 PM UTC-5, Mike Van Pelt wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I thought it was quite amusing that Nadreck considered it a
>>> humiliating moral failure when circumstances required him to
>>> abandon his customary risk-adverse behind the scenes approach,
>>> and take on the Boskonians in an act of personal derring-do.
>>
>> Interesting point. I had not looked at that particular incident through
>> that lens before, but Nadreck _was_ more-or-less doing the same thing
>> toward KK that KK did toward Nadreck. I could even imagine Nadreck
>> having the same reluctant admission in his own mind that Kinnison's
>> default approach could sometimes be necessary, even if it went against
>> the grain.
>>
>> Regarding psi powers, it's interesting that in the _Lensman_ stories,
>> the only psi ability available to the lesser races is telepathy.

Perception.

KK
>> never shows any track of any of the other classical powers. But those
>> powers (or something) _do_ exist in-universe, because the Arisians and
>> the Eddorians use them routinely. Mentor, for ex, at one point
>> intervenes to change all the records, pictures, physical evidence,
>> anywhere in the universe, that might give away Kimbal Kinnison's legend
>> as Traska Gannell.
>
> Been a looooong time since I read, but is there *any* human psi power
> without a lens?

Nothing worth writing home about but there are Rigellians and Velantians
who don't need any steenkin' lens to use telepathy.

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

Telepathy, at least (see _The Vortex Blaster_). And there are parts of
the canon that can be read to indicate that the Lens does allow some
level of TK. Certainly at the level of the Arisians you get TK and
pretty much every other power you can think of.

[Martin]

It's been a long time since I read The Vortex Blaster, but I believe it was stated there that the Manarkans (a human, or at least humanoid, race) were all telepaths.

[D B Davis]

As you say, /if/ _Firestarter_ is indeed Science Fiction, then it's
some of the first sf read by me. Even though it has nothing to do with
John Campbell, _Firestarter_ marks the end of the "Campbell era" of psi
sf /for me/. YMMV.
It's quite astute of you to notice how fictional psi aggression
traumatizes its victims. It dovetails with my own real life theory that
liars incur organic brain damage.
My theory is that the best liars unconsciously traumatize their own
brains in order to truly believe their own lies. Because "it's not a lie
if /you/ think it's true." So the very best liars must somehow deceive
themselves. They must forget all about their lie. One way to forget
about a lie is for the brain to sacrifice enough pertinent neurons to
erase the lie's engram(s).

Thank you,

--
Don

[David Johnston]

Oh sure. Lyranians are telepaths too.

[Lynn McGuire]

On 10/19/2017 11:01 PM, Johnny1A wrote:
> On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 8:30:29 AM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
>> Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers Every True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
>>
>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-mind-powers
>> --
>
> Mileage varies about whether it is SF or not, but Steven King's _Firestarter_ belongs on the list, IMHO. Both because of the obvious ability, the little girl's pyrokinetic power, and also (and IMHO more so) because of how King treats the awakened power in her father.

...

+1,000,000

Lynn

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:osdhu4$hdf$1...@dont-email.me:

Yeah, I gotta agree on that, too. Only King I've ever had the
slightest inclination to read, and it was damned good.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

[Lynn McGuire]

On 10/20/2017 3:10 PM, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:osdhu4$hdf$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 10/19/2017 11:01 PM, Johnny1A wrote:
>>> On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 8:30:29 AM UTC-5, James
>>> Nicoll wrote:
>>>> Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers
>>>> Every True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
>>>>
>>>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-min
>>>> d-powers --
>>>
>>> Mileage varies about whether it is SF or not, but Steven King's
>>> _Firestarter_ belongs on the list, IMHO. Both because of the
>>> obvious ability, the little girl's pyrokinetic power, and also
>>> (and IMHO more so) because of how King treats the awakened
>>> power in her father.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> +1,000,000
>>
> Yeah, I gotta agree on that, too. Only King I've ever had the
> slightest inclination to read, and it was damned good.

Even the Firestarer movie was good and that is rare for a Stephen King
book. One of the two Drew Barrymore movies by King.

And _Carrie_ is a good psi novel also. So is _The Dead Zone_.

And I liked _The Dark Half_, _The Stand_, and _Salem's Lot_ also.

Lynn

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote in

news:osdqu8$mak$1...@dont-email.me:

> On 10/20/2017 3:10 PM, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:osdhu4$hdf$1...@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 10/19/2017 11:01 PM, Johnny1A wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 8:30:29 AM UTC-5, James
>>>> Nicoll wrote:
>>>>> Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers
>>>>> Every True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
>>>>>
>>>>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-m
>>>>> in d-powers --
>>>>
>>>> Mileage varies about whether it is SF or not, but Steven
>>>> King's _Firestarter_ belongs on the list, IMHO. Both because
>>>> of the obvious ability, the little girl's pyrokinetic power,
>>>> and also (and IMHO more so) because of how King treats the
>>>> awakened power in her father.
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>> +1,000,000
>>>
>> Yeah, I gotta agree on that, too. Only King I've ever had the
>> slightest inclination to read, and it was damned good.
>
> Even the Firestarer movie was good

It was. In fact, it was the reason I read the book. The book was
better.

> And _Carrie_ is a good psi novel also. So is _The Dead Zone_.

No idea what The Dead Zone is, but Carries is horror/suspense/gore,
which doesn't absolutely nothing for me. Yawn.

>
> And I liked _The Dark Half_, _The Stand_, and _Salem's Lot_
> also.
>

King does not, generally speaking, write the sort of stuff that I
find entertaining. If falls into the category as "really good
beer": The moose might be wearing a chef's hat, but the moose pee
still comes out of the same end.

Firestarter wasn't really the same sort of story, though.

[Lynn McGuire]

_The Dead Zone_ was about a guy with a brain injury who could see the
future. The book was made into both a movie (Christopher Walken) and a
tv show (Anthony Michael Hall). Not horror.
https://www.amazon.com/Dead-Zone-Novel-Stephen-King/dp/1501143816/

Lynn

[Juho Julkunen]

In article <XnsA8149DE5173...@69.16.179.43>,
taus...@gmail.com says...

>

> King does not, generally speaking, write the sort of stuff that I
> find entertaining.

What about Richard Bachman?

--
Juho Julkunen

[Johnny1A]

On Friday, October 20, 2017 at 1:33:54 AM UTC-5, David Johnston wrote:
> On 2017-10-19 9:54 PM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> > In article <64a673f8-696f-4735...@googlegroups.com>,
> > Johnny1A <johnny1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 5:01:13 PM UTC-5, Mike Van Pelt wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> I thought it was quite amusing that Nadreck considered it a
> >>> humiliating moral failure when circumstances required him to
> >>> abandon his customary risk-adverse behind the scenes approach,
> >>> and take on the Boskonians in an act of personal derring-do.
> >>
> >> Interesting point. I had not looked at that particular incident through
> >> that lens before, but Nadreck _was_ more-or-less doing the same thing
> >> toward KK that KK did toward Nadreck. I could even imagine Nadreck
> >> having the same reluctant admission in his own mind that Kinnison's
> >> default approach could sometimes be necessary, even if it went against
> >> the grain.
> >>
> >> Regarding psi powers, it's interesting that in the _Lensman_ stories,
> >> the only psi ability available to the lesser races is telepathy.
>
> Perception.

Good point, high-precision ESP is available to human L2s and some species naturally at all levels.

> Nothing worth writing home about but there are Rigellians and Velantians
> who don't need any steenkin' lens to use telepathy.

Velantians can use telepathy quite effectively without a Lens, Worsel had awesome range on his own. (Granted he was a raw, untrained L2, but still, he was raw and untrained.)

Palainians appear to be telepathic on their own, too.

Humans appear to be behind the other four major races in psi power, but ahead in will power and some latent potentials.

[Johnny1A]

On Friday, October 20, 2017 at 3:10:25 PM UTC-5, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:osdhu4$hdf$1...@dont-email.me:
>
> > On 10/19/2017 11:01 PM, Johnny1A wrote:
> >> On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 8:30:29 AM UTC-5, James
> >> Nicoll wrote:
> >>> Twenty Core SF Works About Psionics and Awesome Mind Powers
> >>> Every True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves
> >>>
> >>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/core-psionics-and-awesome-min
> >>> d-powers --
> >>
> >> Mileage varies about whether it is SF or not, but Steven King's
> >> _Firestarter_ belongs on the list, IMHO. Both because of the
> >> obvious ability, the little girl's pyrokinetic power, and also
> >> (and IMHO more so) because of how King treats the awakened
> >> power in her father.
> >
> > ...
> >
> > +1,000,000
> >
> Yeah, I gotta agree on that, too. Only King I've ever had the
> slightest inclination to read, and it was damned good.
>

King thought through some of the implications of Cool psi abilities, and realized that yeah, they could be useful and cool, but there would be big downsides too, unless you knew how to use them skillfully and lived in a society that knew how to cope with it.

Charlie and her parents do not have either benefit. The little girl is lucky in that her father is very bright and able to teach himself to use his power sort of well, and moral enough to use it with restraint, and a good enough father (in terms of both intent and ability) to help her cope.

She's unlucky in that her power makes her a walking unexploded bomb. She can barely control it at all, and there's no solid indication that she'll ever have it under really tight control. When she loses her temper, she's a threat to herself and everyone around her. She will, _at best_, have to live her life under iron self-control, almost Vulcan levels of self-discipline, in fact, to avoid problems. She'll need the control to not use the power when she doesn't want to, and to use it effectively and without disaster when she does.

The hit man even taunts her, at one point, that he doubts even her father believes she can ever have a really normal life...and the hit man is probably right about that.

At the same time, she's Dangerous to cross, as the rogue intelligence outfit discovered when they pushed her too hard.

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Juho Julkunen <giao...@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:MPG.3454e09b...@news.kolumbus.fi:

I have no idea if Stephen King writes stuff that Richard Bachman
likes.

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Johnny1A <johnny1...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:6a914b3d-79d9-4beb...@googlegroups.com:

All of that is true only because that is what the author choise to
be true in that story.