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OT/true Can we grow food on Mars?
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a425couple
Jun 26, 2016, 12:02:46 PM6/26/16
to
Can we grow food on Mars?
By Deborah Byrd in Human World | Space | June 25, 2016
Apparently we can, and you can view details in this video from a talk given
at Mars One's recent private event in Amsterdam.
By now, you've likely seen the movie The Martian, in which Matt Damon plays
a botanist/astronaut trapped alone on Mars. He improvises a farm with
Martian soil, fertilized with human waste, seeded with potatoes saved for a
Thanksgiving meal and watered by extracting hydrogen from leftover rocket
fuel. How realistic is growing food on Mars? Apparently it can be done, and
you can view some details in the video above, posted to YouTube by Mars One
on June 23, 2016.
In case you missed it, Mars One is the not-for-profit foundation whose goal
is to establish a permanent human settlement on Mars. A little over a year
ago, it announced it had selected 50 men and 50 women who would compete via
reality television for a one-way Mars trip, as early as 2024. Checking out a
June 6, 2016 press release from Mars One about its Astronaut Selection Round
Three process, I didn't find the words "television" or "2024." But Mars One
does continue to say:
http://earthsky.org/space/can-we-grow-food-on-mars
By Deborah Byrd in Human World | Space | June 25, 2016
Apparently we can, and you can view details in this video from a talk given
at Mars One's recent private event in Amsterdam.
By now, you've likely seen the movie The Martian, in which Matt Damon plays
a botanist/astronaut trapped alone on Mars. He improvises a farm with
Martian soil, fertilized with human waste, seeded with potatoes saved for a
Thanksgiving meal and watered by extracting hydrogen from leftover rocket
fuel. How realistic is growing food on Mars? Apparently it can be done, and
you can view some details in the video above, posted to YouTube by Mars One
on June 23, 2016.
In case you missed it, Mars One is the not-for-profit foundation whose goal
is to establish a permanent human settlement on Mars. A little over a year
ago, it announced it had selected 50 men and 50 women who would compete via
reality television for a one-way Mars trip, as early as 2024. Checking out a
June 6, 2016 press release from Mars One about its Astronaut Selection Round
Three process, I didn't find the words "television" or "2024." But Mars One
does continue to say:
http://earthsky.org/space/can-we-grow-food-on-mars
a425couple
Jun 27, 2016, 4:10:41 PM6/27/16
to
"a425couple" <a425c...@hotmail.com> wrote in message ...
another in same idea:
http://www.nasa.gov/feature/nasa-plant-researchers-explore-question-of-deep-space-food-crops
Feb. 17, 2016
NASA Plant Researchers Explore Question of Deep-Space Food Crops
By Linda Herridge
------Aside from the chamber, the essentials needed for growing food crops,
whether on the Earth or another planet, such as Mars, are water, light and
soil,
along with some kind of nutrients to help them grow.
Potato Crop Studies
A variety of red potatoes called Norland were grown in the Biomass
Production Chamber inside Hangar L at Cape Canaveral Air Forc
A variety of red potatoes called Norland were grown in the Biomass
Production Chamber inside Hangar L at Cape Canaveral Air Force
Station in Florida during a research study in 1992. Photo credit: NASA
What kind of crops could be grown in space or on another planet? Potatoes,
sweet potatoes, wheat and soybeans would all be good according to Wheeler
because they provide a lot of carbohydrates, and soybeans are a good source
of protein.
Also, potatoes are tubers, which means they store their edible biomass in
underground structures. Wheeler said potatoes could produce twice the
amount of food as some seed crops when given equivalent light. After
salad crops that are now being studied, they are the next category of
minimally processed food crops and could be consumed raw.
> Can we grow food on Mars?
> Apparently we can, and you can view details in this video from a talk
> given
> at Mars One's recent private event in Amsterdam.
> http://earthsky.org/space/can-we-grow-food-on-mars
> given
> at Mars One's recent private event in Amsterdam.
another in same idea:
http://www.nasa.gov/feature/nasa-plant-researchers-explore-question-of-deep-space-food-crops
Feb. 17, 2016
NASA Plant Researchers Explore Question of Deep-Space Food Crops
By Linda Herridge
------Aside from the chamber, the essentials needed for growing food crops,
whether on the Earth or another planet, such as Mars, are water, light and
soil,
along with some kind of nutrients to help them grow.
Potato Crop Studies
A variety of red potatoes called Norland were grown in the Biomass
Production Chamber inside Hangar L at Cape Canaveral Air Forc
A variety of red potatoes called Norland were grown in the Biomass
Production Chamber inside Hangar L at Cape Canaveral Air Force
Station in Florida during a research study in 1992. Photo credit: NASA
What kind of crops could be grown in space or on another planet? Potatoes,
sweet potatoes, wheat and soybeans would all be good according to Wheeler
because they provide a lot of carbohydrates, and soybeans are a good source
of protein.
Also, potatoes are tubers, which means they store their edible biomass in
underground structures. Wheeler said potatoes could produce twice the
amount of food as some seed crops when given equivalent light. After
salad crops that are now being studied, they are the next category of
minimally processed food crops and could be consumed raw.
Adamastor Glace Mortimer
Jun 28, 2016, 5:48:45 AM6/28/16
to
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In article <nkou9...@news3.newsguy.com>
"possibly," or "hypothetically," or "we guess that" or similar
words that express the fact that an opinion is being given and that
is hasn't even been tried yet would have been more appropriate.
> By now, you've likely seen the movie The Martian, in which Matt Damon plays
> a botanist/astronaut trapped alone on Mars. He improvises a farm with
> Martian soil, fertilized with human waste, seeded with potatoes saved for a
> Thanksgiving meal and watered by extracting hydrogen from leftover rocket
> fuel. How realistic is growing food on Mars?
I certainly wouldn't base an answer to that question on a movie I'd
seen.
> Apparently it can be done, and you can view some details in the video
> above, posted to YouTube by Mars One on June 23, 2016.
Again, I have to take issue with the word "apparently."
> In case you missed it, Mars One is the not-for-profit foundation whose goal
> is to establish a permanent human settlement on Mars. ....
Which gives them, as maybe THE interested party at this time, quite
a motivation to say that it can be done the way they say. Desire is
a powerful force in Earthlings.
> http://earthsky.org/space/can-we-grow-food-on-mars
Yeah, I left the URL in.
Adamastor Glace Mortimer
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In article <nkou9...@news3.newsguy.com>
"a425couple" <a425c...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Can we grow food on Mars?
> By Deborah Byrd in Human World | Space | June 25, 2016
> Apparently we can, and you can view details in this video from a talk given
> at Mars One's recent private event in Amsterdam.
A talk is not a proof. Instead of "apparently," the words
>
> Can we grow food on Mars?
> By Deborah Byrd in Human World | Space | June 25, 2016
> Apparently we can, and you can view details in this video from a talk given
> at Mars One's recent private event in Amsterdam.
"possibly," or "hypothetically," or "we guess that" or similar
words that express the fact that an opinion is being given and that
is hasn't even been tried yet would have been more appropriate.
> By now, you've likely seen the movie The Martian, in which Matt Damon plays
> a botanist/astronaut trapped alone on Mars. He improvises a farm with
> Martian soil, fertilized with human waste, seeded with potatoes saved for a
> Thanksgiving meal and watered by extracting hydrogen from leftover rocket
> fuel. How realistic is growing food on Mars?
seen.
> Apparently it can be done, and you can view some details in the video
> above, posted to YouTube by Mars One on June 23, 2016.
> In case you missed it, Mars One is the not-for-profit foundation whose goal
Which gives them, as maybe THE interested party at this time, quite
a motivation to say that it can be done the way they say. Desire is
a powerful force in Earthlings.
> http://earthsky.org/space/can-we-grow-food-on-mars
Yeah, I left the URL in.
Adamastor Glace Mortimer
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Quadibloc
Jun 28, 2016, 1:44:18 PM6/28/16
to
On Sunday, June 26, 2016 at 10:02:46 AM UTC-6, a425couple quoted, in part:
course one would have to fertilize it from scratch.
I can see _one_ reason why this might not work as well on Mars.
Mirrors to concentrate sunlight, domes to keep the air in - or even systems to
reflect sunlight into underground caverns, if radiation is too much of a
problem - are easily enough achieved. Yes, an underground chamber would be a
big heavy engineering project, but if it's needed, the supplies can be sent to
Mars.
But one would expect to _at least_ be able to use the Martian soil. Mars also
has a lot of water, we now know. Pemafrost is messy to deal with, but it can be
dealt with; extracting water from muskeg is not worse than extracting oil from
the tar sands.
Mars is short of nitrogen. That will have to come from Earth. Eventually, once
a space presence of the appropriate type is established, it could come from
comets.
But Martian soil is obviously not good for one thing. It's not good for making
optical glass. It has *lots and lots* of iron in it.
Bad news for the Martian optical industry, even a little iron makes glass green
instead of clear.
Bad news for the Martian semiconductor industry - iron is a particularly bad
contaminant when making silicon microchips.
I don't know how iron in soil affects plant growth, but I suspect it could also
cause problems there.
John Savard
> Can we grow food on Mars?
Lunar material was found to be good soil in which to grow plants, although of
course one would have to fertilize it from scratch.
I can see _one_ reason why this might not work as well on Mars.
Mirrors to concentrate sunlight, domes to keep the air in - or even systems to
reflect sunlight into underground caverns, if radiation is too much of a
problem - are easily enough achieved. Yes, an underground chamber would be a
big heavy engineering project, but if it's needed, the supplies can be sent to
Mars.
But one would expect to _at least_ be able to use the Martian soil. Mars also
has a lot of water, we now know. Pemafrost is messy to deal with, but it can be
dealt with; extracting water from muskeg is not worse than extracting oil from
the tar sands.
Mars is short of nitrogen. That will have to come from Earth. Eventually, once
a space presence of the appropriate type is established, it could come from
comets.
But Martian soil is obviously not good for one thing. It's not good for making
optical glass. It has *lots and lots* of iron in it.
Bad news for the Martian optical industry, even a little iron makes glass green
instead of clear.
Bad news for the Martian semiconductor industry - iron is a particularly bad
contaminant when making silicon microchips.
I don't know how iron in soil affects plant growth, but I suspect it could also
cause problems there.
John Savard
Scott Lurndal
Jun 28, 2016, 2:49:59 PM6/28/16
to
Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> writes:
>On Sunday, June 26, 2016 at 10:02:46 AM UTC-6, a425couple quoted, in part:
>> Can we grow food on Mars?
>
>Lunar material was found to be good soil in which to grow plants, although of
>course one would have to fertilize it from scratch.
>
>I can see _one_ reason why this might not work as well on Mars.
>
>Mirrors to concentrate sunlight, domes to keep the air in - or even systems to
>reflect sunlight into underground caverns, if radiation is too much of a
>problem - are easily enough achieved. Yes, an underground chamber would be a
>big heavy engineering project, but if it's needed, the supplies can be sent to
>Mars.
>
>But one would expect to _at least_ be able to use the Martian soil. Mars also
>has a lot of water, we now know. Pemafrost is messy to deal with, but it can be
>dealt with; extracting water from muskeg is not worse than extracting oil from
>the tar sands.
>
>Mars is short of nitrogen. That will have to come from Earth. Eventually, once
>a space presence of the appropriate type is established, it could come from
>comets.
NASA's Curiosity Rover Finds Biologically Useful Nitrogen on Mars
>On Sunday, June 26, 2016 at 10:02:46 AM UTC-6, a425couple quoted, in part:
>> Can we grow food on Mars?
>
>Lunar material was found to be good soil in which to grow plants, although of
>course one would have to fertilize it from scratch.
>
>I can see _one_ reason why this might not work as well on Mars.
>
>Mirrors to concentrate sunlight, domes to keep the air in - or even systems to
>reflect sunlight into underground caverns, if radiation is too much of a
>problem - are easily enough achieved. Yes, an underground chamber would be a
>big heavy engineering project, but if it's needed, the supplies can be sent to
>Mars.
>
>But one would expect to _at least_ be able to use the Martian soil. Mars also
>has a lot of water, we now know. Pemafrost is messy to deal with, but it can be
>dealt with; extracting water from muskeg is not worse than extracting oil from
>the tar sands.
>
>Mars is short of nitrogen. That will have to come from Earth. Eventually, once
>a space presence of the appropriate type is established, it could come from
>comets.
http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/mars-nitrogen
Quadibloc
Jun 28, 2016, 3:08:45 PM6/28/16
to
On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 12:49:59 PM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> NASA's Curiosity Rover Finds Biologically Useful Nitrogen on Mars
>
> http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/mars-nitrogen
The article doesn't say how much fixed nitrogen there is on Mars, but given
> NASA's Curiosity Rover Finds Biologically Useful Nitrogen on Mars
>
> http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/mars-nitrogen
that the atmospheric amounts are in the region of trace amounts, the statement
in the article that the amounts found agree with what would be expected by
nitrates being created by the energy in meteorite impacts (presumably from
whatever was there, i.e. the Martian atmosphere) does not sound encouraging.
John Savard
Greg Goss
Jun 28, 2016, 11:05:48 PM6/28/16
to
"a425couple" <a425c...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Can we grow food on Mars?
>By Deborah Byrd in Human World | Space | June 25, 2016
>Apparently we can, and you can view details in this video from a talk given
>at Mars One's recent private event in Amsterdam.
>
>By now, you've likely seen the movie The Martian, in which Matt Damon plays
>a botanist/astronaut trapped alone on Mars. He improvises a farm with
>Martian soil, fertilized with human waste, seeded with potatoes saved for a
>Thanksgiving meal and watered by extracting hydrogen from leftover rocket
>fuel. How realistic is growing food on Mars? Apparently it can be done, and
>you can view some details in the video above, posted to YouTube by Mars One
>on June 23, 2016.
I remember claims when the movie first came out that the idea was
>Can we grow food on Mars?
>By Deborah Byrd in Human World | Space | June 25, 2016
>Apparently we can, and you can view details in this video from a talk given
>at Mars One's recent private event in Amsterdam.
>
>By now, you've likely seen the movie The Martian, in which Matt Damon plays
>a botanist/astronaut trapped alone on Mars. He improvises a farm with
>Martian soil, fertilized with human waste, seeded with potatoes saved for a
>Thanksgiving meal and watered by extracting hydrogen from leftover rocket
>fuel. How realistic is growing food on Mars? Apparently it can be done, and
>you can view some details in the video above, posted to YouTube by Mars One
>on June 23, 2016.
unsound. That article made the claim that a chemical beleived to be
widely present in Martian soil would be poisonous to plants and very
hard to neutralize. The word "oxalates" comes vaguely to mind but I'm
not sure if that was it or if that's even a real chemical.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Cryptoengineer
Jun 28, 2016, 11:51:10 PM6/28/16
to
Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote in
news:dtgs89...@mid.individual.net:
Perchlorates - strong oxidizers. They were first detected in 2008, but
became much more widely known in 2012 after Curiosity detected them in
Gale Crater, forming 0.5 - 1% of the soil.
I don't know how much perchlorate the Martian simulant soil in the
video had - some of the research described predated the Curiosity
discoveries. They also talk about heavy metal contamination in the soil.
It turns out that exposure to perchlorates, even at low levels, is
a big deal to humans. Another bad thing to deal with.
http://www.space.com/21554-mars-toxic-perchlorate-chemicals.html
The video talks about the 'greenhouses' being buried under a meter
of soil to stop radiation, and using artificial lights. That's pretty
energy intensive.
pt
news:dtgs89...@mid.individual.net:
became much more widely known in 2012 after Curiosity detected them in
Gale Crater, forming 0.5 - 1% of the soil.
I don't know how much perchlorate the Martian simulant soil in the
video had - some of the research described predated the Curiosity
discoveries. They also talk about heavy metal contamination in the soil.
It turns out that exposure to perchlorates, even at low levels, is
a big deal to humans. Another bad thing to deal with.
http://www.space.com/21554-mars-toxic-perchlorate-chemicals.html
The video talks about the 'greenhouses' being buried under a meter
of soil to stop radiation, and using artificial lights. That's pretty
energy intensive.
pt
J. Clarke
Jun 29, 2016, 3:09:36 AM6/29/16
to
In article <XnsA635F2A4A3...@216.166.97.131>,
treif...@gmail.com says...
Fellow I know rode a motorcycle across the Atacama. Another I know hiked
it. Both got exposure to perchlorates at near-Martian levels and it
doesn't seem to have done either of them any harm. Another exagerrated
"danger" by the "any risk is an insurmountable obstacle" crowd.
treif...@gmail.com says...
it. Both got exposure to perchlorates at near-Martian levels and it
doesn't seem to have done either of them any harm. Another exagerrated
"danger" by the "any risk is an insurmountable obstacle" crowd.
Scott Lurndal
Jun 29, 2016, 8:58:38 AM6/29/16
to
they eating food grown in the soil of the Atacama?
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_22454526/ten-years-after-toxic-plume-morgan-hill-and
art...@yahoo.com
Jun 29, 2016, 12:17:07 PM6/29/16
to
On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 1:44:18 PM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
> Mirrors to concentrate sunlight, domes to keep the air in - or even systems to
> reflect sunlight into underground caverns,
In a previous discussion (In this group) of The Martian, it was suggested that there simply wasn't sufficient sunlight to grow potatoes (at least not the way portrayed in the novel, perhaps).
> Mirrors to concentrate sunlight, domes to keep the air in - or even systems to
> reflect sunlight into underground caverns,
I'm still not sure one way or the other.
Thoughts?
Peter Trei
Jun 29, 2016, 12:53:46 PM6/29/16
to
The cells were listed as being fairly inefficient, and had to power grow lights,
with their own inefficiencies.
There simply wasn't enough power to grow potatoes on that amount of ground.
A real farm could solve this, with sufficient power available.
pt
J. Clarke
Jun 29, 2016, 6:30:06 PM6/29/16
to
In article <%BPcz.8201$WK6....@fx01.iad>, sc...@slp53.sl.home says...
What does that have to do with anything? Nobody's going to be drinking
water filtered by Martian soil and nobody'g going to be growing food in
unadulterated Martian soil.
water filtered by Martian soil and nobody'g going to be growing food in
unadulterated Martian soil.
Robert Bannister
Jun 29, 2016, 11:34:29 PM6/29/16
to
acquaintance didn't spend more that a few days crossing the Atacama, but
if we were talking about people living there, it would be a different
story. Most of the Atacama is devoid of human, plant or animal life -
bit like Mars really.
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
J. Clarke
Jun 30, 2016, 3:10:17 AM6/30/16
to
In article <dtjia1...@mid.individual.net>, rob...@clubtelco.com
says...
Why would it "be a different story"? Nobody's going to be going outside
on Mars without a pressure suit for a very long time, and nobody's just
going to be sticking seeds in the ground and watching them grow for a
very long time. People living on Mars will have even less exposure than
someone who is covered in dust every day and sleeps on the perchlorate-
laden ground.
says...
on Mars without a pressure suit for a very long time, and nobody's just
going to be sticking seeds in the ground and watching them grow for a
very long time. People living on Mars will have even less exposure than
someone who is covered in dust every day and sleeps on the perchlorate-
laden ground.
Peter Trei
Jun 30, 2016, 8:48:12 AM6/30/16
to
in everywhere - on the Apollo Moon missions, a *lot* got into the LEM, tracked
in on the exterior of the Moonsuits - it was reported as smelling like
gunpowder. Moondust is different than Mars dust - its very sharp and abrasive,
while Mars dust tends to be finer, and more rounded due to weathering.
It's been proposed to set up Mars suits such that users 'dock' their backs to
ports in the habitat, and climb in and out without the exterior of the suits
ever contacting the habitat interior.
All in all its a nasty environment. We really should, as soon as we can afford
it, commence terraforming.
pt
Robert Bannister
Jun 30, 2016, 10:33:53 PM6/30/16
to
I'm sure there are people stupid enough to buy Mars dust.
J. Clarke
Jun 30, 2016, 10:48:10 PM6/30/16
to
In article <dtm34d...@mid.individual.net>, rob...@clubtelco.com
says...
Dust gets into everything on earth too. So what? It's what brooms and
vacuum cleaners are for.
says...
vacuum cleaners are for.
Titus G
Jul 1, 2016, 12:36:56 AM7/1/16
to
On 01/07/16 14:33, Robert Bannister wrote:
> Weren't radioactive lunar rocks sold to people after the moon landings?
Yes. Some people who accidentally swallowed one, started lecturing in
> Weren't radioactive lunar rocks sold to people after the moon landings?
economics whilst only vaguely aware of concepts, history and theory but
up to date with buzz words hiding, as often as not, political motives.
Quadi put a small one in his ear to stop the mercury spilling out.
> I'm sure there are people stupid enough to buy Mars dust.
subset of those. But would buy only if that book purchase hasn't blown
their credit limit. We haven't done the pricing yet but the Genuine
Invisible Permanently Sealed Mars Dust will probably be a lot cheaper
than the Unsealed Plain Mars Dust which will have to undergo costly
processing to remove health threatening impurities and to add preservatives.
Titus G
Jul 1, 2016, 12:44:49 AM7/1/16
to
On 01/07/16 14:48, J. Clarke wrote:
> rob...@clubtelco.com says...
>>
>> On 30/06/2016 8:48 PM, Peter Trei wrote:
snip
> rob...@clubtelco.com says...
>>
>> On 30/06/2016 8:48 PM, Peter Trei wrote:
>>> Dust is a really pervasive problem for planetary exploration. It
>>> tends to seep in everywhere - on the Apollo Moon missions, a
>>> *lot* got into the LEM, tracked in on the exterior of the
>>> Moonsuits - it was reported as smelling like gunpowder. Moondust
>>> is different than Mars dust - its very sharp and abrasive, while
>>> Mars dust tends to be finer, and more rounded due to weathering.
>>>
>>> It's been proposed to set up Mars suits such that users 'dock'
>>> their backs to ports in the habitat, and climb in and out without
>>> the exterior of the suits ever contacting the habitat interior.
>>>
>>> All in all its a nasty environment. We really should, as soon as
>>> we can afford it, commence terraforming.
>>
>> Weren't radioactive lunar rocks sold to people after the moon
>> landings? I'm sure there are people stupid enough to buy Mars
>> dust.
>
> Dust gets into everything on earth too. So what? It's what brooms
> and vacuum cleaners are for.
Do brooms work on the moon?
>>> tends to seep in everywhere - on the Apollo Moon missions, a
>>> *lot* got into the LEM, tracked in on the exterior of the
>>> Moonsuits - it was reported as smelling like gunpowder. Moondust
>>> is different than Mars dust - its very sharp and abrasive, while
>>> Mars dust tends to be finer, and more rounded due to weathering.
>>>
>>> It's been proposed to set up Mars suits such that users 'dock'
>>> their backs to ports in the habitat, and climb in and out without
>>> the exterior of the suits ever contacting the habitat interior.
>>>
>>> All in all its a nasty environment. We really should, as soon as
>>> we can afford it, commence terraforming.
>>
>> Weren't radioactive lunar rocks sold to people after the moon
>> landings? I'm sure there are people stupid enough to buy Mars
>> dust.
>
> Dust gets into everything on earth too. So what? It's what brooms
> and vacuum cleaners are for.
How long would the vacuum extension cord need to be?
Dorothy J Heydt
Jul 1, 2016, 2:00:03 AM7/1/16
to
In article <nl4sfv$pbe$1...@dont-email.me>, Titus G <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>On 01/07/16 14:48, J. Clarke wrote:
>> rob...@clubtelco.com says...
>>>
>>> On 30/06/2016 8:48 PM, Peter Trei wrote:
>snip
>>>> Dust is a really pervasive problem for planetary exploration. It
>>>> tends to seep in everywhere - on the Apollo Moon missions, a
>>>> *lot* got into the LEM, tracked in on the exterior of the
>>>> Moonsuits - it was reported as smelling like gunpowder. Moondust
>>>> is different than Mars dust - its very sharp and abrasive, while
>>>> Mars dust tends to be finer, and more rounded due to weathering.
>>>>
>>>> It's been proposed to set up Mars suits such that users 'dock'
>>>> their backs to ports in the habitat, and climb in and out without
>>>> the exterior of the suits ever contacting the habitat interior.
>>>>
>>>> All in all its a nasty environment. We really should, as soon as
>>>> we can afford it, commence terraforming.
>>>
>>> Weren't radioactive lunar rocks sold to people after the moon
>>> landings? I'm sure there are people stupid enough to buy Mars
>>> dust.
I have a tektite from the Australiasian strewn field, which is
>On 01/07/16 14:48, J. Clarke wrote:
>> rob...@clubtelco.com says...
>>>
>>> On 30/06/2016 8:48 PM, Peter Trei wrote:
>snip
>>>> Dust is a really pervasive problem for planetary exploration. It
>>>> tends to seep in everywhere - on the Apollo Moon missions, a
>>>> *lot* got into the LEM, tracked in on the exterior of the
>>>> Moonsuits - it was reported as smelling like gunpowder. Moondust
>>>> is different than Mars dust - its very sharp and abrasive, while
>>>> Mars dust tends to be finer, and more rounded due to weathering.
>>>>
>>>> It's been proposed to set up Mars suits such that users 'dock'
>>>> their backs to ports in the habitat, and climb in and out without
>>>> the exterior of the suits ever contacting the habitat interior.
>>>>
>>>> All in all its a nasty environment. We really should, as soon as
>>>> we can afford it, commence terraforming.
>>>
>>> Weren't radioactive lunar rocks sold to people after the moon
>>> landings? I'm sure there are people stupid enough to buy Mars
>>> dust.
generally accepted as splash meterorites from an asteroid that
hit the Moon hard, a while back. (It used to be the stone in my
engagement ring, but the prongs holding it in failed.)
>>
>> Dust gets into everything on earth too. So what? It's what brooms
>> and vacuum cleaners are for.
>
>Do brooms work on the moon?
If you're *very careful*. In one of Laura Wilder's books, her
>> Dust gets into everything on earth too. So what? It's what brooms
>> and vacuum cleaners are for.
>
>Do brooms work on the moon?
mother tells her sternly "Draw the broom, Laura, don't filp it;
that raises the dust."
>How long would the vacuum extension cord need to be?
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Wayne Brown
Jul 1, 2016, 4:49:03 PM7/1/16
to
off by the Mars dust tracked into the habitat and the rovers used by
his explorers was irritating their breathing passages, even though
they had strict requirements for vacuuming as much dust as possible off
their suits before entering through the airlocks. They also compared
the difficulty of growing things in their greenhouse with growing
plants in bleach. As I recall, they had to bake the perchlorates
out of the Martian regolith to make it possible to grow things in it.
>
> It's been proposed to set up Mars suits such that users 'dock' their backs to
> ports in the habitat, and climb in and out without the exterior of the suits
> ever contacting the habitat interior.
>
> All in all its a nasty environment. We really should, as soon as we can afford
> it, commence terraforming.
>
> pt
F. Wayne Brown <fwb...@bellsouth.net>
ur sag9-ga ur-tur-še3 ba-an-kur9
"A dog that is played with turns into a puppy." (Sumerian proverb)
J. Clarke
Jul 1, 2016, 6:50:54 PM7/1/16
to
In article <nl6kvt$jfd$1...@dont-email.me>, fwb...@bellsouth.net says...
That's Ben Bova creating tension. In the real world nobody "bakes the
perchlorates" out of Chilean fertilizer that has perchlorate leves
similar to Mars, and the plants don't seem to care. "Baking" does not
seem to be an accepted remediation method for perchlorates anyway.
Simplest thing to do is separate them out and use them for rocket fuel.
perchlorates" out of Chilean fertilizer that has perchlorate leves
similar to Mars, and the plants don't seem to care. "Baking" does not
seem to be an accepted remediation method for perchlorates anyway.
Simplest thing to do is separate them out and use them for rocket fuel.
Cryptoengineer
Jul 1, 2016, 10:30:41 PM7/1/16
to
"J. Clarke" <j.clark...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:MPG.31e0bdce5...@news.eternal-september.org:
There are numbers to apply here.
The soil of the Atacama maxes out at about 2.5 mg/kg or perchlorate.
See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24165784
The Martian soil around 5g/kg - 2000x as much. That's a
significant difference.
Try googling 'perchlorate soil remediation' and you'll find
that soils with far, far less perchlorate than Mars need
fixing.
Quite aside from its effects on plants, perchlorate interferes
with human thyroid's iodine uptake
Interestingly, bioremediation has the potential to not only
remove perchlorate from the soil, but to supply oxygen for
a Mars colony.
http://www.space.com/21554-mars-toxic-perchlorate-chemicals.html
pt
news:MPG.31e0bdce5...@news.eternal-september.org:
The soil of the Atacama maxes out at about 2.5 mg/kg or perchlorate.
See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24165784
The Martian soil around 5g/kg - 2000x as much. That's a
significant difference.
Try googling 'perchlorate soil remediation' and you'll find
that soils with far, far less perchlorate than Mars need
fixing.
Quite aside from its effects on plants, perchlorate interferes
with human thyroid's iodine uptake
Interestingly, bioremediation has the potential to not only
remove perchlorate from the soil, but to supply oxygen for
a Mars colony.
http://www.space.com/21554-mars-toxic-perchlorate-chemicals.html
pt
Greg Goss
Jul 2, 2016, 11:24:42 AM7/2/16
to
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>How long would the vacuum extension cord need to be?
>Use solar cells maybe? Lots of sunlight. Lots of vacuum.
Using the vacuum as a vacuum cleaner might be "cute", but you lose a
>>How long would the vacuum extension cord need to be?
>Use solar cells maybe? Lots of sunlight. Lots of vacuum.
lot of valuable oxygen/nitrogen that way. Unless
Robert Bannister
Jul 2, 2016, 9:53:08 PM7/2/16
to
Atacama and on Mars. According to Wiki, no-one really knows for certain:
Despite its importance to environmental contamination, the specific
source and processes involved in natural perchlorate production remain
poorly understood. Laboratory experiments in conjunction with isotopic
studies have implied that perchlorate may be produced on Earth by the
oxidation of chlorine species through pathways involving ozone or its
photochemical products. Other studies have suggested that perchlorate
can also be created by lightning activated oxidation of chloride
aerosols (e.g., chloride in sea salt sprays), and ultraviolet or thermal
oxidation of chlorine (e.g., bleach solutions used in swimming pools) in
water.
J. Clarke
Jul 2, 2016, 10:31:17 PM7/2/16
to
In article <dtr9fu...@mid.individual.net>, rob...@clubtelco.com
says...
On earth they are decomposed by microorganisms in the presence of
moisture. The Atacama has little moisture, Mars has virtually none.
says...
moisture. The Atacama has little moisture, Mars has virtually none.
Cryptoengineer
Jul 2, 2016, 11:26:23 PM7/2/16
to
"J. Clarke" <j.clark...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:MPG.31e242f3a...@news.eternal-september.org:
prep its soil by adding water, mixing in some nutrients if required,
and seeding it with perchlorate-eating microbes. This might even release
useful quantities of oxygen. However, if the chlorine is not removed, the
chloride levels in the soil might also be problematic.
pt
Robert Bannister
Jul 3, 2016, 11:16:25 PM7/3/16
to
David DeLaney
Jul 4, 2016, 1:47:35 AM7/4/16
to
On 2016-07-02, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>>How long would the vacuum extension cord need to be?
>>Use solar cells maybe? Lots of sunlight. Lots of vacuum.
>
> Using the vacuum as a vacuum cleaner might be "cute", but you lose a
> lot of valuable oxygen/nitrogen that way. Unless
... yyyyyyesssss?
> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>>How long would the vacuum extension cord need to be?
>>Use solar cells maybe? Lots of sunlight. Lots of vacuum.
>
> Using the vacuum as a vacuum cleaner might be "cute", but you lose a
> lot of valuable oxygen/nitrogen that way. Unless
Dave, on tenterskyhooks
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://gatekeeper.vic.com/~dbd/ -net.legends/Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Greg Goss
Jul 4, 2016, 4:18:19 AM7/4/16
to
David DeLaney <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>On 2016-07-02, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>>>How long would the vacuum extension cord need to be?
>>>Use solar cells maybe? Lots of sunlight. Lots of vacuum.
>>
>> Using the vacuum as a vacuum cleaner might be "cute", but you lose a
>> lot of valuable oxygen/nitrogen that way. Unless
>
>... yyyyyyesssss?
I under-deleted. I started going into the design of a multistage
>On 2016-07-02, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>>>How long would the vacuum extension cord need to be?
>>>Use solar cells maybe? Lots of sunlight. Lots of vacuum.
>>
>> Using the vacuum as a vacuum cleaner might be "cute", but you lose a
>> lot of valuable oxygen/nitrogen that way. Unless
>
>... yyyyyyesssss?
vacuum reserve system that was out of context here.
Greg Goss
Jul 4, 2016, 4:20:15 AM7/4/16
to
"J. Clarke" <j.clark...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> Perchlorates
>On earth they are decomposed by microorganisms in the presence of
>moisture. The Atacama has little moisture, Mars has virtually none.
... of either.
>> >>>>>>>> Perchlorates
>On earth they are decomposed by microorganisms in the presence of
>moisture. The Atacama has little moisture, Mars has virtually none.
C. E. Gee
Jul 11, 2016, 4:48:26 PM7/11/16
to
Grow food on Mars?
My story "Back to the Garden" has an extensive description of "hot houses" growing food on Mars. They get their heat from nearby nuclear reactors and generate light by using electricity from the same reactors. The hot houses even have bees for pollination.
NAMASTE
C.E. Gee Aka Chuck
My story "Back to the Garden" has an extensive description of "hot houses" growing food on Mars. They get their heat from nearby nuclear reactors and generate light by using electricity from the same reactors. The hot houses even have bees for pollination.
NAMASTE
C.E. Gee Aka Chuck
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