Syfy orders time-travel pilot "Rewind"

[David]

http://www.deadline.com/2012/01/syfy-greenlights-2-hour-rewind-action-thriller-pilot/

Syfy Greenlights 2-Hour ‘Rewind’ Action Thriller Pilot
By NELLIE ANDREEVA

EXCLUSIVE: In its first pilot pickup in more than an year, Syfy has
given the green light to Rewind, an action thriller from feature
writer Justin Marks (Street Fighter), BermanBraun and Universal Cable
Prods. Rewind, which has received an order for a two-hour pilot,
revolves around a team of military field operatives and civilian
scientists who must use untested technology to travel back in time to
alter past events in order to change the future and avoid a
devastating terrorist attack. Marks wrote the script and will
executive produce the pilot with veteran showrunner Tom Spezialy
(Chaos), Gail Berman, Lloyd Braun and Gene Stein.

This marks Syfy’s first original pilot order since the 2010 duo of
Alphas and Three Inches, one of which, Alphas, went to series and has
been renewed for a second season. Like Rewind, Alphas hails from
BermanBraun and UCP. “We couldn’t be happier to be back in business
with BermanBraun,” said Mark Stern, Syfy’s president of original
content. “Justin Marks has created a time-travel series with an
exciting innovative approach that really exemplifies Syfy’s commitment
to bring compelling storytelling to life.” Production on Rewind is set
to begin in April. The order for Rewind comes after an extensive
script review process at Syfy, which explored different scenarios,
including ordering projects as limited series in the vein of AMC’s
pickup of The Walking Dead, before settling on a 2-hour order for
early frontrunner Rewind. In addition to Alphas and Three Inches,
Syfy’s only pilot pickup was the Battlestar offshoot Blood & Crome,
which remains in contention.

[Adam H. Kerman]

>http://www.deadline.com/2012/01/syfy-greenlights-2-hour-rewind-action-thriller-pilot/

>Syfy Greenlights 2-Hour ‘Rewind’ Action Thriller Pilot
>By NELLIE ANDREEVA

> EXCLUSIVE: In its first pilot pickup in more than an year, Syfy has
>given the green light to Rewind, an action thriller from feature
>writer Justin Marks (Street Fighter), BermanBraun and Universal Cable
>Prods. Rewind, which has received an order for a two-hour pilot,
>revolves around a team of military field operatives and civilian
>scientists who must use untested technology to travel back in time to
>alter past events in order to change the future and avoid a
>devastating terrorist attack. Marks wrote the script and will
>executive produce the pilot with veteran showrunner Tom Spezialy
>(Chaos), Gail Berman, Lloyd Braun and Gene Stein.

Is somebody claiming there is anything original about this?

Seven Days, Quantum Leap, 100 or so novels like A Connecticut Yankee In
King Arthur's Court

Time Tunnel claimed they were trying not to change things.

Producers use this technology to sabotage meetings with network programming
executives of rival producers. Clearly, there's no other explanation for
Jerry Bruckheimer.

[shawn]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 22:24:44 +0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<a...@chinet.com> wrote:

>>http://www.deadline.com/2012/01/syfy-greenlights-2-hour-rewind-action-thriller-pilot/
>
>>Syfy Greenlights 2-Hour ‘Rewind’ Action Thriller Pilot
>>By NELLIE ANDREEVA
>
>> EXCLUSIVE: In its first pilot pickup in more than an year, Syfy has
>>given the green light to Rewind, an action thriller from feature
>>writer Justin Marks (Street Fighter), BermanBraun and Universal Cable
>>Prods. Rewind, which has received an order for a two-hour pilot,
>>revolves around a team of military field operatives and civilian
>>scientists who must use untested technology to travel back in time to
>>alter past events in order to change the future and avoid a
>>devastating terrorist attack. Marks wrote the script and will
>>executive produce the pilot with veteran showrunner Tom Spezialy
>>(Chaos), Gail Berman, Lloyd Braun and Gene Stein.
>
>Is somebody claiming there is anything original about this?

I don't see any claim of anything original above. The question is can
they make the show watchable? The concept certainly allows for it as
can be seen by the numerous other shows/movies that used the concept.
It's all going to come down to the writing and casting.

>Seven Days, Quantum Leap, 100 or so novels like A Connecticut Yankee In
>King Arthur's Court
>
>Time Tunnel claimed they were trying not to change things.
>
>Producers use this technology to sabotage meetings with network programming
>executives of rival producers. Clearly, there's no other explanation for
>Jerry Bruckheimer.

:)

[Barry Margolin]

In article <jf7grc$eor$1...@news.albasani.net>,

"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

> >http://www.deadline.com/2012/01/syfy-greenlights-2-hour-rewind-action-thrille
> >r-pilot/
>

> >Syfy Greenlights 2-Hour ‘Rewind’ Action Thriller Pilot
> >By NELLIE ANDREEVA
>
> > EXCLUSIVE: In its first pilot pickup in more than an year, Syfy has
> >given the green light to Rewind, an action thriller from feature
> >writer Justin Marks (Street Fighter), BermanBraun and Universal Cable
> >Prods. Rewind, which has received an order for a two-hour pilot,
> >revolves around a team of military field operatives and civilian
> >scientists who must use untested technology to travel back in time to
> >alter past events in order to change the future and avoid a
> >devastating terrorist attack. Marks wrote the script and will
> >executive produce the pilot with veteran showrunner Tom Spezialy
> >(Chaos), Gail Berman, Lloyd Braun and Gene Stein.
>
> Is somebody claiming there is anything original about this?

There's nothing new under the sun. Everything is just a new take on old
themes.

--
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA

[Thanatos]

In article <jf7grc$eor$1...@news.albasani.net>,
"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

> >http://www.deadline.com/2012/01/syfy-greenlights-2-hour-rewind-action-thrille
> >r-pilot/
>

> >Syfy Greenlights 2-Hour ‘Rewind’ Action Thriller Pilot
> >By NELLIE ANDREEVA
>
> > EXCLUSIVE: In its first pilot pickup in more than an year, Syfy has
> >given the green light to Rewind, an action thriller from feature
> >writer Justin Marks (Street Fighter), BermanBraun and Universal Cable
> >Prods. Rewind, which has received an order for a two-hour pilot,
> >revolves around a team of military field operatives and civilian
> >scientists who must use untested technology to travel back in time to
> >alter past events in order to change the future and avoid a
> >devastating terrorist attack. Marks wrote the script and will
> >executive produce the pilot with veteran showrunner Tom Spezialy
> >(Chaos), Gail Berman, Lloyd Braun and Gene Stein.
>
> Is somebody claiming there is anything original about this?

I just finished reading 'The Breach" trilogy of books by Patrick Lee
that I thought would make the basis for a fantastic Syfy series. It's
too bad they keep going for retread ideas like 'Rewind'.

[Professor Bubba]

In article <jf7grc$eor$1...@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
<a...@chinet.com> wrote:

>
> >>http://www.deadline.com/2012/01/syfy-greenlights-2-hour-rewind-action-thrill
> >er-pilot/
>

> >Syfy Greenlights 2-Hour ‘Rewind’ Action Thriller Pilot
> >By NELLIE ANDREEVA
>
> > EXCLUSIVE: In its first pilot pickup in more than an year, Syfy has
> >given the green light to Rewind, an action thriller from feature
> >writer Justin Marks (Street Fighter), BermanBraun and Universal Cable
> >Prods. Rewind, which has received an order for a two-hour pilot,
> >revolves around a team of military field operatives and civilian
> >scientists who must use untested technology to travel back in time to
> >alter past events in order to change the future and avoid a
> >devastating terrorist attack. Marks wrote the script and will
> >executive produce the pilot with veteran showrunner Tom Spezialy
> >(Chaos), Gail Berman, Lloyd Braun and Gene Stein.
>
> Is somebody claiming there is anything original about this?
>
> Seven Days, Quantum Leap, 100 or so novels like A Connecticut Yankee In
> King Arthur's Court
>
> Time Tunnel claimed they were trying not to change things.

There's also Seven Days, the Jonathan LaPaglia thing where he'd go back
in time seven days to thwart assassinations and so on.

[Winston]

In the Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> article quoted by Bubba:

>> Is somebody claiming there is anything original about this?

>> Seven Days, Quantum Leap, 100 or so novels like A Connecticut Yankee In
>> King Arthur's Court

to which Professor Bubba <bu...@nowhere.edu.invalid> replied:

> There's also Seven Days, the Jonathan LaPaglia thing where he'd go back
> in time seven days to thwart assassinations and so on.

See first show in Adam's list?
-WBE

[Ken from Chicago]

"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote in message
news:jf7grc$eor$1...@news.albasani.net...

>>http://www.deadline.com/2012/01/syfy-greenlights-2-hour-rewind-action-thriller-pilot/
>
>>Syfy Greenlights 2-Hour 'Rewind' Action Thriller Pilot
>>By NELLIE ANDREEVA

<snip>

> Is somebody claiming there is anything original about this?

Syfy Rewind might already have a hurdle: Tuning Into SciFi TV website
already has SciFi Rewind podcast:

http://tuningintoscifitv.com/2011/09/30/scifi-rewind-11-enemy-mine/

This happened before when Sci Fi channel wanted to change to Syfy when there
was already a Syfy Portal website

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syfy#Rebranding

They bought the name for $250,000.

-- Ken from Chicago

[Professor Bubba]

In article <ydhazsp...@UBEblock.psr.com>, Winston

Obviously not. Sorry.

[cloud dreamer]

On 18/01/2012 6:54 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>> http://www.deadline.com/2012/01/syfy-greenlights-2-hour-rewind-action-thriller-pilot/
>
>> Syfy Greenlights 2-Hour ‘Rewind’ Action Thriller Pilot
>> By NELLIE ANDREEVA
>
>> EXCLUSIVE: In its first pilot pickup in more than an year, Syfy has
>> given the green light to Rewind, an action thriller from feature
>> writer Justin Marks (Street Fighter), BermanBraun and Universal Cable
>> Prods. Rewind, which has received an order for a two-hour pilot,
>> revolves around a team of military field operatives and civilian
>> scientists who must use untested technology to travel back in time to
>> alter past events in order to change the future and avoid a
>> devastating terrorist attack. Marks wrote the script and will
>> executive produce the pilot with veteran showrunner Tom Spezialy
>> (Chaos), Gail Berman, Lloyd Braun and Gene Stein.
>
> Is somebody claiming there is anything original about this?

Are you claiming that a show is only worthy if it's original?

Boy, then every ghost story after Hamlet (itself not original) would not
be worthy.

..


--
We must change the way we live
Or the climate will do it for us

[Adam H. Kerman]

Professor Bubba wrote:
>Winston <w...@ubeblock.psr.com.invalid> wrote:
>>Professor Bubba <bu...@nowhere.edu.invalid> replied:

>>>Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

>>>>Is somebody claiming there is anything original about this?

>>>>Seven Days, Quantum Leap, 100 or so novels like A Connecticut Yankee In
>>>>King Arthur's Court

>>>There's also Seven Days, the Jonathan LaPaglia thing where he'd go back
>>>in time seven days to thwart assassinations and so on.

>>See first show in Adam's list?

>Obviously not. Sorry.

It wasn't there in the original time line. I went back in time and put
it there after I read your followup.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Nice selective snipping job there. Fuck off, clod.

[President Bubba]

In article <jf9b51$rog$1...@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman

<a...@chinet.com> wrote:

> Professor Bubba wrote:
> >Winston <w...@ubeblock.psr.com.invalid> wrote:
> >>Professor Bubba <bu...@nowhere.edu.invalid> replied:
> >>>Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>Is somebody claiming there is anything original about this?
>
> >>>>Seven Days, Quantum Leap, 100 or so novels like A Connecticut Yankee In
> >>>>King Arthur's Court
>
> >>>There's also Seven Days, the Jonathan LaPaglia thing where he'd go back
> >>>in time seven days to thwart assassinations and so on.
>
> >>See first show in Adam's list?
>
> >Obviously not. Sorry.
>
> It wasn't there in the original time line. I went back in time and put
> it there after I read your followup.

Thank you. I was wondering how that kind of thing works.

-- President Bubba

[Jim G.]

David sent the following on Wed, 18 Jan 2012 16:54:39 -0500:

>
> http://www.deadline.com/2012/01/syfy-greenlights-2-hour-rewind-action-thriller-pilot/
>
> Syfy Greenlights 2-Hour ‘Rewind’ Action Thriller Pilot
> By NELLIE ANDREEVA
>
> EXCLUSIVE: In its first pilot pickup in more than an year, Syfy has
> given the green light to Rewind, an action thriller from feature
> writer Justin Marks (Street Fighter), BermanBraun and Universal Cable
> Prods. Rewind, which has received an order for a two-hour pilot,
> revolves around a team of military field operatives and civilian
> scientists who must use untested technology to travel back in time to
> alter past events in order to change the future and avoid a
> devastating terrorist attack.

Two questions come to mind immediately:

1. How will they change the past without changing themselves in the
process?

2. If they can change the past without changing themselves in the
process, how will the show create any dramatic tension whatsoever? After
all, if one attempt to change/fix things doesn't work, they'll just try
again. And again. And again until they get it right. Right? So where's
the drama in that?

--
Jim G. | Waukesha, WI
NoCLoDS Founding Member (No Cop, Lawyer or Doctor Shows)

[Barry Margolin]

In article <heogh75vjcjfdi4a7...@4ax.com>,

Are you really expecting this show to resolve the paradoxes that have
plagued just about every time travel story ever told?

[Winston]

Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> originally wrote:
>>>>> Is somebody claiming there is anything original about this?

>>>>> Seven Days, Quantum Leap, 100 or so novels like A Connecticut Yankee
>>>>> In King Arthur's Court

Professor Bubba <bu...@nowhere.edu.invalid> replied:

>>>> There's also Seven Days, the Jonathan LaPaglia thing where he'd go
>>>> back in time seven days to thwart assassinations and so on.

I commented:

>>> See first show in Adam's list?

Professor Bubba replied:
>> Obviously not. Sorry.

to which "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> cleverly replied:

> It wasn't there in the original time line. I went back in time and put
> it there after I read your followup.

Wow, it works just like the show says -- since I wasn't the time traveler,
I have no memory of that original time line.

If you got the powers-that-be to part with a power rod from the Roswell
crash, what earth-shaking event did you come back to stop? Is "Rewind"
going to lose so much money that the network sent you back to stop it?
:-)
-WBE

[Stan Brown]

Hmm -- I thought maybe they were filming Ken Grimwood's novel, but
the synopsis you gave rules that out.

For anyone who wants a good read, I recommend the novel. On page 1
the lead character dies of a heart attack at age 44, then wakes up to
find himself 18 years old again.


--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
"Children -- so adorable. In a way they're like people."
-- Veronica, on /Better Off Ted/

[David Johnston]

Now, now, it's not like there haven't been stories that didn't solve it.
Problem 1 can be solved by shielding their base from the effects of
historical change or by making the actual time travelers immune.
Problem 2 can be solved just by not letting people triple up.

[Bill Steele]

On 1/19/12 1:37 PM, Jim G. wrote:
> 2. If they can change the past without changing themselves in the
> process, how will the show create any dramatic tension whatsoever? After
> all, if one attempt to change/fix things doesn't work, they'll just try
> again. And again. And again until they get it right. Right? So where's
> the drama in that?

That could be a way to make it interesting: change things, screw up, go
back and try again until they figure out how to get it right. Quantum
Leap did a lot of that, and thee was a fairly interesting TV movie a few
years back about somebody trying to stop the Kennedy assassination with
several go-arounds. I presume it ended unsuccessfully, but at least the
hero managed to live through it. And then there was "The Butterfly Effect."

All sorts of dramatic possibilities. I had a high-school friend who died
of a heart attack at 25. If I could go back there, what could I do?
Nobody knew anything about cholessterol or genetics.

[dd...@danlan.com]

On Jan 19, 1:37 pm, Jim G. <jimgy...@geemail.com> wrote:
> David sent the following on Wed, 18 Jan 2012 16:54:39 -0500:
>
>
>

> >http://www.deadline.com/2012/01/syfy-greenlights-2-hour-rewind-action...

>
> > Syfy Greenlights 2-Hour ‘Rewind’ Action Thriller Pilot
> > By NELLIE ANDREEVA
>
> > EXCLUSIVE: In its first pilot pickup in more than an year, Syfy has
> > given the green light to Rewind, an action thriller from feature
> > writer Justin Marks (Street Fighter), BermanBraun and Universal Cable
> > Prods. Rewind, which has received an order for a two-hour pilot,
> > revolves around a team of military field operatives and civilian
> > scientists who must use untested technology to travel back in time to
> > alter past events in order to change the future and avoid a
> > devastating terrorist attack.
>
> Two questions come to mind immediately:
>
> 1. How will they change the past without changing themselves in the
> process?

Isolation bunker? Or the Seven Days model where they did change
themselves
and only Parker remembered the old time line. (I always thought it
was interesting
that at any point none of the staff had ever performed a successful
launch for
Parker; each was their first...)

> 2. If they can change the past without changing themselves in the
> process, how will the show create any dramatic tension whatsoever? After
> all, if one attempt to change/fix things doesn't work, they'll just try
> again. And again. And again until they get it right. Right? So where's
> the drama in that?

Temporal censorship? Limited power?

Yours are pretty much the standard questions in any time travel
story. Even
with unlimited tries, of course, things could get pretty tense after a
few hundred
(cf. that annoying Voyager episode with the time weapon whose only
mode of
change was retroactive destruction).

It is possible to write a good story without tripping over these,
though. One
of my favorite time travel stories (and my all-time favorite new Outer
Limits
episode) A Stitch in Time really imposed very few limits on the
technology.
The time traveler remembered both histories and could go back multiple
times. (The former caused some physical degradation but that wasn't
an important plot point.) The interesting questions were all moral...

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com

[Adam H. Kerman]

Lifetime was going to do a movie about Drew Peterson starring Rob Lowe.
I know that's hard to believe...

[Steven L.]

"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote in message
news:jf7grc$eor$1...@news.albasani.net:

> >http://www.deadline.com/2012/01/syfy-greenlights-2-hour-rewind-action-thriller-pilot/
>
> >Syfy Greenlights 2-Hour ‘Rewind’ Action Thriller Pilot
> >By NELLIE ANDREEVA
>
> > EXCLUSIVE: In its first pilot pickup in more than an year, Syfy has
> >given the green light to Rewind, an action thriller from feature
> >writer Justin Marks (Street Fighter), BermanBraun and Universal Cable
> >Prods. Rewind, which has received an order for a two-hour pilot,
> >revolves around a team of military field operatives and civilian
> >scientists who must use untested technology to travel back in time to
> >alter past events in order to change the future and avoid a
> >devastating terrorist attack. Marks wrote the script and will
> >executive produce the pilot with veteran showrunner Tom Spezialy
> >(Chaos), Gail Berman, Lloyd Braun and Gene Stein.
>
> Is somebody claiming there is anything original about this?

No one in television ever claims they're original.
But this one is so non-original it's practically a cliche by now.

>
> Seven Days, Quantum Leap, 100 or so novels like A Connecticut Yankee In
> King Arthur's Court

The 1996 CBS TV series "Early Edition" too.

A couple of Twilight Zone episodes too.

Outer Limits had at least one episode in which time travel helped
prevent a disastrous plane crash.

The 1979 movie "The Final Countdown," in which the Navy supercarrier
U.S.S. Nimitz travels back in time to 1941 and tries to stop the
Japanese from bombing Pearl Harbor.

And of course, the first Reeve Superman movie (1978), where Superman
travels back in time to prevent Lex Luthor from detonating his atomic
bomb in California which would have killed Lois Lane.



-- Steven L.

[David Barnett]

In article <_NOdnfrY0_DF4oXS...@earthlink.com>,
sdli...@earthlink.net says...

>
> "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote in message
> news:jf7grc$eor$1...@news.albasani.net:
>
> > >http://www.deadline.com/2012/01/syfy-greenlights-2-hour-rewind-action-thriller-pilot/
> >

> > >Syfy Greenlights 2-Hour ?Rewind? Action Thriller Pilot

> > >By NELLIE ANDREEVA
> >
> > > EXCLUSIVE: In its first pilot pickup in more than an year, Syfy has
> > >given the green light to Rewind, an action thriller from feature
> > >writer Justin Marks (Street Fighter), BermanBraun and Universal Cable
> > >Prods. Rewind, which has received an order for a two-hour pilot,
> > >revolves around a team of military field operatives and civilian
> > >scientists who must use untested technology to travel back in time to
> > >alter past events in order to change the future and avoid a
> > >devastating terrorist attack. Marks wrote the script and will
> > >executive produce the pilot with veteran showrunner Tom Spezialy
> > >(Chaos), Gail Berman, Lloyd Braun and Gene Stein.
> >
> > Is somebody claiming there is anything original about this?
>
>
> No one in television ever claims they're original.
> But this one is so non-original it's practically a cliche by now.

You have hit the nail on the head there.

> >
> > Seven Days, Quantum Leap, 100 or so novels like A Connecticut Yankee In
> > King Arthur's Court
>
> The 1996 CBS TV series "Early Edition" too.
>
> A couple of Twilight Zone episodes too.
>
> Outer Limits had at least one episode in which time travel helped
> prevent a disastrous plane crash.
>
> The 1979 movie "The Final Countdown," in which the Navy supercarrier
> U.S.S. Nimitz travels back in time to 1941 and tries to stop the
> Japanese from bombing Pearl Harbor.
>
> And of course, the first Reeve Superman movie (1978), where Superman
> travels back in time to prevent Lex Luthor from detonating his atomic
> bomb in California which would have killed Lois Lane.
>
> -- Steven L.

Add the 2004 movie "The Butterfly Effect" starring Ashton Kutcher.
IMDB lists 2 sequels (Japanese/German)

--
David Barnett

[tenworld]

On Jan 19, 10:37 am, Jim G. <jimgy...@geemail.com> wrote:
> David sent the following on Wed, 18 Jan 2012 16:54:39 -0500:
>
>
>

> >http://www.deadline.com/2012/01/syfy-greenlights-2-hour-rewind-action...

>
> > Syfy Greenlights 2-Hour ‘Rewind’ Action Thriller Pilot
> > By NELLIE ANDREEVA
>
> >  EXCLUSIVE: In its first pilot pickup in more than an year, Syfy has
> > given the green light to Rewind, an action thriller from feature
> > writer Justin Marks (Street Fighter), BermanBraun and Universal Cable
> > Prods. Rewind, which has received an order for a two-hour pilot,
> > revolves around a team of military field operatives and civilian
> > scientists who must use untested technology to travel back in time to
> > alter past events in order to change the future and avoid a
> > devastating terrorist attack.
>
> Two questions come to mind immediately:
>
> 1. How will they change the past without changing themselves in the
> process?
>
> 2. If they can change the past without changing themselves in the
> process, how will the show create any dramatic tension whatsoever? After
> all, if one attempt to change/fix things doesn't work, they'll just try
> again. And again. And again until they get it right. Right? So where's
> the drama in that?
>

thats a good idea actually. Unlike QL where the hero becomes a new
person each show or BTTF where life is much better for McFly after he
returns, this show could be like L&O, first half about changing the
future, second half about how they deal with how their life changed.
Could even go episode to episode, eg lose a wife one week, gain her
back the next.

[Goro]

On Jan 18, 3:24 pm, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> >http://www.deadline.com/2012/01/syfy-greenlights-2-hour-rewind-action...

> >Syfy Greenlights 2-Hour ‘Rewind’ Action Thriller Pilot
> >By NELLIE ANDREEVA
> > EXCLUSIVE: In its first pilot pickup in more than an year, Syfy has
> >given the green light to Rewind, an action thriller from feature
> >writer Justin Marks (Street Fighter), BermanBraun and Universal Cable
> >Prods. Rewind, which has received an order for a two-hour pilot,
> >revolves around a team of military field operatives and civilian
> >scientists who must use untested technology to travel back in time to
> >alter past events in order to change the future and avoid a
> >devastating terrorist attack. Marks wrote the script and will
> >executive produce the pilot with veteran showrunner Tom Spezialy
> >(Chaos), Gail Berman, Lloyd Braun and Gene Stein.
>
> Is somebody claiming there is anything original about this?
>
> Seven Days, Quantum Leap, 100 or so novels like A Connecticut Yankee In
> King Arthur's Court
>
> Time Tunnel claimed they were trying not to change things.

This show sounds like Time Cop meets Stargate.

-goro-

[tenworld]

On Jan 19, 12:38 pm, "Steven L." <sdlit...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> The 1979 movie "The Final Countdown," in which the Navy supercarrier
> U.S.S. Nimitz travels back in time to 1941 and tries to stop the
> Japanese from bombing Pearl Harbor.
>

The beauty of this movie is that it was more about deciding whether
they should interfere or not. They wound up not changing history (and
not doing the alternate universe cop-out), yet the ending was
satisfying, while evoking the mystery over who the real Howard Hughes
was.

[Jim G.]

Barry Margolin sent the following on Thu, 19 Jan 2012 14:22:09 -0500:

No, I'm just pointing out the usual problems, and wondering whether the
creators here have given them sufficient consideration.

[Jim G.]

David Johnston sent the following on Thu, 19 Jan 2012 12:37:40 -0700:

But these solutions always seem to create as many problems as they try
to resolve. "Contrived" is a word that often comes to mind in this
context.

[Jim G.]

dd...@danlan.com sent the following on Thu, 19 Jan 2012 12:06:32 -0800
(PST):

> It is possible to write a good story without tripping over these,
> though.

That's debatable. Still, even to the extent that it's true, Syfy isn't
the first person or group that I would think of if I were trying to
think of a person or group that could pull it off.

[David Johnston]

Such as?

[Jerry Brown]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 14:16:08 -0800 (PST), tenworld <t...@world.std.com>
wrote:

Journeyman was a bit like that; his son changed to a daughter for one
episode (with much accompanying angst), and the FBI agent who died
earlier in the series was due to be resurrected had the show
continued. However, the protagonist had no control over his (for want
of a better word) leaps.

--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)

[Duggy]

On Jan 19, 8:24 am, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> >http://www.deadline.com/2012/01/syfy-greenlights-2-hour-rewind-action...
> >Syfy Greenlights 2-Hour ‘Rewind’ Action Thriller Pilot
> >By NELLIE ANDREEVA
> > EXCLUSIVE: In its first pilot pickup in more than an year, Syfy has
> >given the green light to Rewind, an action thriller from feature
> >writer Justin Marks (Street Fighter), BermanBraun and Universal Cable
> >Prods. Rewind, which has received an order for a two-hour pilot,
> >revolves around a team of military field operatives and civilian
> >scientists who must use untested technology to travel back in time to
> >alter past events in order to change the future and avoid a

> >devastating terrorist attack. Marks wrote the script and will
> >executive produce the pilot with veteran showrunner Tom Spezialy
> >(Chaos), Gail Berman, Lloyd Braun and Gene Stein.
>
> Is somebody claiming there is anything original about this?
>
> Seven Days,

True.

> Quantum Leap,

No military.

> 100 or so novels like A Connecticut Yankee In
> King Arthur's Court

No time machine.

> Time Tunnel claimed they were trying not to change things.

True.

> Producers use this technology to sabotage meetings with network programming
> executives of rival producers. Clearly, there's no other explanation for
> Jerry Bruckheimer.

So, besides 7 days...

===
= DUG.
===

[Duggy]

On Jan 19, 9:41 am, shawn <nanoflo...@gNOTmail.com> wrote:
> >Is somebody claiming there is anything original about this?

> I don't see any claim of anything original above.

"Justin Marks has created a time-travel series with an
exciting innovative approach that really exemplifies Syfy’s
commitment
to bring compelling storytelling to life.”

Does really claim it's an original idea, just an innovative approach.

===
= DUG.
===

[Duggy]

On Jan 20, 6:38 am, "Steven L." <sdlit...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> > > EXCLUSIVE: In its first pilot pickup in more than an year, Syfy has
> > >given the green light to Rewind, an action thriller from feature
> > >writer Justin Marks (Street Fighter), BermanBraun and Universal Cable
> > >Prods. Rewind, which has received an order for a two-hour pilot,
> > >revolves around a team of military field operatives and civilian
> > >scientists who must use untested technology to travel back in time to
> > >alter past events in order to change the future and avoid a
> > >devastating terrorist attack. Marks wrote the script and will
> > >executive produce the pilot with veteran showrunner Tom Spezialy
> > >(Chaos), Gail Berman, Lloyd Braun and Gene Stein.
> > Is somebody claiming there is anything original about this?
> No one in television ever claims they're original.
> But this one is so non-original it's practically a cliche by now.

As opposed to a show about detectives.

Execution is the key.

> The 1996 CBS TV series "Early Edition" too.

No military in that.

> A couple of Twilight Zone episodes too.

Fair enough.

> Outer Limits had at least one episode in which time travel helped
> prevent a disastrous plane crash.

Did it?

> The 1979 movie "The Final Countdown," in which the Navy supercarrier
> U.S.S. Nimitz travels back in time to 1941 and tries to stop the
> Japanese from bombing Pearl Harbor.

Bad film. Suspiciously close to a unused script for Star Trek: "Phase
II".

> And of course, the first Reeve Superman movie (1978), where Superman
> travels back in time to prevent Lex Luthor from detonating his atomic
> bomb in California which would have killed Lois Lane.

No time machine or military team.

===
= DUG.
===

[Duggy]

On Jan 20, 4:37 am, Jim G. <jimgy...@geemail.com> wrote:
> David sent the following on Wed, 18 Jan 2012 16:54:39 -0500:
>
>
>

> >http://www.deadline.com/2012/01/syfy-greenlights-2-hour-rewind-action...

>
> > Syfy Greenlights 2-Hour ‘Rewind’ Action Thriller Pilot
> > By NELLIE ANDREEVA
>
> >  EXCLUSIVE: In its first pilot pickup in more than an year, Syfy has
> > given the green light to Rewind, an action thriller from feature
> > writer Justin Marks (Street Fighter), BermanBraun and Universal Cable
> > Prods. Rewind, which has received an order for a two-hour pilot,
> > revolves around a team of military field operatives and civilian
> > scientists who must use untested technology to travel back in time to
> > alter past events in order to change the future and avoid a
> > devastating terrorist attack.
>
> Two questions come to mind immediately:
>
> 1. How will they change the past without changing themselves in the
> process?
>
> 2. If they can change the past without changing themselves in the
> process, how will the show create any dramatic tension whatsoever? After
> all, if one attempt to change/fix things doesn't work, they'll just try
> again. And again. And again until they get it right. Right? So where's
> the drama in that?

Usually if changes can be made the traveler is not changed by the
changes he makes. They are usually made immune to changes by others
as well.

Back to the Future is the major counter-example or any short story
with a time-loop or breakdown of all time.

===
= DUG.
===

[Duggy]

On Jan 20, 9:01 am, Jim G. <jimgy...@geemail.com> wrote:
> But these solutions always seem to create as many problems as they try
> to resolve. "Contrived" is a word that often comes to mind in this
> context.

I don't think they do...

I think the major problem is that any rules are applied
inconsistently.

They aren't changed by any time travel... until someone comes up with
a plot that needs them to be changed by time travel.

Sometimes within the same jump.

===
= DUG.
===

[Duggy]

On Jan 20, 7:29 am, David Barnett <dbar3...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> Add the 2004 movie "The Butterfly Effect" starring Ashton Kutcher.
> IMDB lists 2 sequels (Japanese/German)

No military or time machine and was a rip-off of Donnie Darko.

Let's not list every thing that had time travel in it and address the
actual premise or are we going to list everything since "The Time
Machine" that has any sort of time travel.

Seven Days certainly seems similar.

===
= DUG.
===

[Duggy]

I keep thinking it sounds like Stargate SG1, too.

TimeCop was a time-guardian show... time travel is available and
reliable and there is a organisation trying to control it.

This is "early days of time-travel" ("untested technology") which it
the more common variety.

===
= DUG.
===

[Duggy]

On Jan 20, 6:06 am, "d...@danlan.com" <d...@danlan.com> wrote:
> It is possible to write a good story without tripping over these,
> though.

It is. A good series is harder.

===
= DUG.
===

[Duggy]

On Jan 20, 9:01 am, Jim G. <jimgy...@geemail.com> wrote:

> d...@danlan.com sent the following on Thu, 19 Jan 2012 12:06:32 -0800
> (PST):
>
> > It is possible to write a good story without tripping over these,
> > though.
>
> That's debatable. Still, even to the extent that it's true, Syfy isn't
> the first person or group that I would think of if I were trying to
> think of a person or group that could pull it off.

Agreed.

===
= DUG.
===

[Professor Bubba]

In article
<c381eef1-6f2a-485f...@4g2000pbz.googlegroups.com>,

No time travel by Superman, either. He makes the Earth revolve
backwards, which is supposed to reverse time somehow and restore the
status quo ante, even though we see that Jimmy is still running around
in the desert after having been saved by Superman before the big
Earth-Reverse. It's not even clear that the bomb didn't go off.

[Professor Bubba]

In article
<e1299b76-00a3-49dd...@kj5g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>,
Duggy <p.allan...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Quantum Leap,
>
> No military.

Al was a Navy admiral on active duty and was in charge of Project
Quantum Leap, but I can't find anything that says the project itself
was military.

> > 100 or so novels like A Connecticut Yankee In
> > King Arthur's Court
>
> No time machine.
>
> > Time Tunnel claimed they were trying not to change things.
>
> True.

I don't remember them ever stating or demonstrating any concern about
changing or not changing history. Didn't Tony and Doug try to save the
Titanic?

[Duggy]

On Jan 20, 2:22 pm, Professor Bubba <bu...@nowhere.edu.invalid> wrote:
> In article
> <c381eef1-6f2a-485f-922a-96f34588f...@4g2000pbz.googlegroups.com>,

>
> Duggy <p.allan.dug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jan 20, 6:38 am, "Steven L." <sdlit...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > > And of course, the first Reeve Superman movie (1978), where Superman
> > > travels back in time to prevent Lex Luthor from detonating his atomic
> > > bomb in California which would have killed Lois Lane.
>
> > No time machine or military team.
>
> No time travel by Superman, either.  He makes the Earth revolve
> backwards, which is supposed to reverse time somehow and restore the
> status quo ante, even though we see that Jimmy is still running around
> in the desert after having been saved by Superman before the big
> Earth-Reverse.  It's not even clear that the bomb didn't go off.

Some people are so stupid.

Superman flew around the world faster and faster until he exceeded the
speed of light at which point he was travelling back in time...
because of the Earth looked like it was spinning backwards.

===
= DUG.
===

[Adam H. Kerman]

Duggy <p.allan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Jan 19, 8:24 am, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

>>>Syfy Greenlights 2-Hour Rewind Action Thriller Pilot
>>>By NELLIE ANDREEVA
>>>EXCLUSIVE: In its first pilot pickup in more than an year, Syfy has
>>>given the green light to Rewind, an action thriller from feature
>>>writer Justin Marks (Street Fighter), BermanBraun and Universal Cable
>>>Prods. Rewind, which has received an order for a two-hour pilot,
>>>revolves around a team of military field operatives and civilian
>>>scientists who must use untested technology to travel back in time to
>>>alter past events in order to change the future and avoid a
>>>devastating terrorist attack. Marks wrote the script and will
>>>executive produce the pilot with veteran showrunner Tom Spezialy
>>>(Chaos), Gail Berman, Lloyd Braun and Gene Stein.

>>Is somebody claiming there is anything original about this?

>>Seven Days,

>True.

>>Quantum Leap,

>No military.

Wasn't there? Al was an active duty Naval officer, and it was a huge
federal black budget project. I don't recall an explanation as to where
it fit into the federal bureaucracy, but it wasn't a civilian project.

[Duggy]

On Jan 20, 2:22 pm, Professor Bubba <bu...@nowhere.edu.invalid> wrote:

> Al was a Navy admiral on active duty and was in charge of Project
> Quantum Leap, but I can't find anything that says the project itself
> was military.

Al was "a team of military field operatives"?

===
= DUG.
===

[Professor Bubba]

In article
<cb599c2e-ec0c-40a2...@i10g2000pbl.googlegroups.com>,

Duggy <p.allan...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jan 20, 2:22�pm, Professor Bubba <bu...@nowhere.edu.invalid> wrote:
> > In article
> > <c381eef1-6f2a-485f-922a-96f34588f...@4g2000pbz.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > Duggy <p.allan.dug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Jan 20, 6:38�am, "Steven L." <sdlit...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > > > And of course, the first Reeve Superman movie (1978), where Superman
> > > > travels back in time to prevent Lex Luthor from detonating his atomic
> > > > bomb in California which would have killed Lois Lane.
> >
> > > No time machine or military team.
> >
> > No time travel by Superman, either. �He makes the Earth revolve
> > backwards, which is supposed to reverse time somehow and restore the
> > status quo ante, even though we see that Jimmy is still running around
> > in the desert after having been saved by Superman before the big
> > Earth-Reverse. �It's not even clear that the bomb didn't go off.
>
> Some people are so stupid.

<sigh> See below.

> Superman flew around the world faster and faster until he exceeded the
> speed of light at which point he was travelling back in time...
> because of the Earth looked like it was spinning backwards.

Really? Then why does Superman zip around Earth in the opposite
direction after he's finished "traveling back in time," and afterward
we see Earth once again rotating normally?

Where is the other, slightly younger Superman and what is he doing
while "time-traveling" Superman, alive-again Lois and Jimmy are
standing around in the desert talking?

Why is the music running under the "time-travel" sequence titled
Turning Back the World on the soundtrack?

This is the nonsense the movie is actually showing you: Superman forces
Earth to rotate backwards because doing so reverses time (and,
therefore, the sequence of events) on Earth. This is patently
ridiculous, and is the reason why many people prefer to misinterpret
the sequence as Superman actually going back in time. Note, however,
that Superman does *nothing* to stop Luthor, the explosion, the quake,
or change anything at all. He just lands where alive-again Lois and
her car are. Jimmy runs up and complains that Superman left him "on a
road in the middle of nowhere during an earthquake, no food, no water,
snakes everywhere." From this we know that the earthquake happened,
which means that the bomb still went off.

The sequence shows that Superman reversed time just far enough to save
Lois' life, although it's not shown just exactly *how* he saves her
life. Is it that Superman gets Lois out of the car just before the
crevasse opens? Jimmy wasn't standing around when the crevasse opened
the first time, but he's there now, and in any case the earthquake is
long over. Nothing matches up. Interpret it however you like despite
all the evidence, but the word "stupid" is best reserved for the people
who came up with this mess in the first place.

[Duggy]

On Jan 20, 3:48 pm, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> Wasn't there? Al was an active duty Naval officer, and it was a huge
> federal black budget project. I don't recall an explanation as to where
> it fit into the federal bureaucracy, but it wasn't a civilian project.

NASA uses and works with the military, NASA is a civilian project.

Either way, Al is not "a team of military field operatives" and Sam
certainly isn't.

===
= DUG.
===

[Jerry Brown]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 18:39:20 -0800 (PST), Duggy
<p.allan...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Jan 20, 6:38 am, "Steven L." <sdlit...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>> Outer Limits had at least one episode in which time travel helped
>> prevent a disastrous plane crash.
>
>Did it?

S02E16, The Premonition (original Outer Limits, that is)

[Duggy]

On Jan 20, 4:27 pm, Professor Bubba <bu...@nowhere.edu.invalid> wrote:
> Really?  Then why does Superman zip around Earth in the opposite
> direction after he's finished "traveling back in time," and afterward
> we see Earth once again rotating normally?

He's using his own inertia to slow himself down. You'd just stop
after doing that, you know.

> Where is the other, slightly younger Superman and what is he doing
> while "time-traveling" Superman, alive-again Lois and Jimmy are
> standing around in the desert talking?

What he did the first time.

> Why is the music running under the "time-travel" sequence titled
> Turning Back the World on the soundtrack?

Because he's turning back time (the world).

> The sequence shows that Superman reversed time just far enough to save
> Lois' life, although it's not shown just exactly *how* he saves her
> life.  Is it that Superman gets Lois out of the car just before the
> crevasse opens?  Jimmy wasn't standing around when the crevasse opened
> the first time, but he's there now, and in any case the earthquake is
> long over.  Nothing matches up.

Because you missed the point.

> Interpret it however you like despite
> all the evidence, but the word "stupid" is best reserved for the people
> who came up with this mess in the first place.

You're saying the makers of Superman: The Movie are stupid?

===
= DUG.
===

[Super-Menace]

In article
<9b4b2f27-a8ce-4295...@3g2000pbd.googlegroups.com>,

Duggy <p.allan...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jan 20, 4:27 pm, Professor Bubba <bu...@nowhere.edu.invalid> wrote:
> > Really?  Then why does Superman zip around Earth in the opposite
> > direction after he's finished "traveling back in time," and afterward
> > we see Earth once again rotating normally?
>
> He's using his own inertia to slow himself down. You'd just stop
> after doing that, you know.

Then why does the Earth start revolving in the other direction? If
Superman is simply trying to stop, there'd be no need to show the Earth
resuming its normal rotation. It makes no sense -- at least not as
time travel.

> > Where is the other, slightly younger Superman and what is he doing
> > while "time-traveling" Superman, alive-again Lois and Jimmy are
> > standing around in the desert talking?
>
> What he did the first time.

Really? So you're saying that the end of the movie is caught in an
infinite, paradoxical loop? If Superman "flew back in time" to stop
the earthquake (even though we never see him doing so), then the
slightly younger Superman would have no reason to "go back in time" to
stop the earthquake from happening, and we would not have the sequence
with alive-again Lois and I-was-in-the-earthquake-that-didn't-happen
Jimmy, and "time-traveling" Superman wouldn't be standing there, etc.,
etc, etc.

> > Why is the music running under the "time-travel" sequence titled
> > Turning Back the World on the soundtrack?
>
> Because he's turning back time (the world).

No, he's turning back the world. You're making up the stuff about
"time." Superman is reversing events on Earth by spinning the world
backwards. He is not traveling through time to do that. He's more or
less reversing the film like a drunken projectionist.

>
> > The sequence shows that Superman reversed time just far enough to save
> > Lois' life, although it's not shown just exactly *how* he saves her
> > life.  Is it that Superman gets Lois out of the car just before the
> > crevasse opens?  Jimmy wasn't standing around when the crevasse opened
> > the first time, but he's there now, and in any case the earthquake is
> > long over.  Nothing matches up.
>
> Because you missed the point.

I did? Really? Superman saves Lois from an earthquake that didn't
happen but that Jimmy was in? And *I* missed the point?

> > Interpret it however you like despite
> > all the evidence, but the word "stupid" is best reserved for the people
> > who came up with this mess in the first place.
>
> You're saying the makers of Superman: The Movie are stupid?

Yeah, pretty much, as the ending is unbelievably stupid. There were
other ways for Superman to resolve the situation, as any eight-year-old
comic book reader could have told them; perhaps they should have hired
one. BTW I noticed that you cut all my stuff about "time-traveling"
Superman doing nothing to stop Luthor or prevent the nuclear explosion,
which is certainly understandable, since it undercut your whole
argument.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Duggy <p.allan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Jan 20, 3:48 pm, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

>>Wasn't there? Al was an active duty Naval officer, and it was a huge
>>federal black budget project. I don't recall an explanation as to where
>>it fit into the federal bureaucracy, but it wasn't a civilian project.

>NASA uses and works with the military, NASA is a civilian project.

There's a big whoosh, Duggy. The non-military portions of NASA's program
don't have a black budget (that we know of).

Quantum Leap is a military secret. It has no civilian research component.
The technology was being developed and exploited because it may have
military application at some point and they want to understand the
technology before the enemy does.

>Either way, Al is not "a team of military field operatives" and Sam
>certainly isn't.

You're making a distinction without any importance. They could have been
a team of bakers and sous chefs but it wouldn't change the basic premise
of the story, a premise that has been exploited many, many, many times
in recent memory.

[Professor Bubba]

BTW, and please excuse the top-post, this was from me (Professor Bubba)
and not "Super-Menace." Duggy cross-posted his reply to me without
notice to some DC Comics ngs, and apparently there was some slop-around
involved. I've fixed things below for the record, such as it is; I'd
already reset the f'ups. If I could go back in time or reverse the
Earth's rotation to fix the damn thing, I would, but I'm stuck with
doing it this way. Apologies.

-----

[dd...@danlan.com]

On Jan 20, 12:48 am, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

IIRC, on one occasion they were in danger of losing their funding
because they had not demonstrated an ability to change the "big"
things as originally envisioned and as a result of a leap one congress
person was replaced by a more sympathetic one who approved
further spending. So I think they answered to some secret
congressional committee.

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com

[Adam H. Kerman]

Professor Bubba wrote:

>BTW, and please excuse the top-post, this was from me (Professor Bubba)
>and not "Super-Menace." Duggy cross-posted his reply to me without
>notice to some DC Comics ngs, and apparently there was some slop-around
>involved. I've fixed things below for the record, such as it is; I'd
>already reset the f'ups. If I could go back in time or reverse the
>Earth's rotation to fix the damn thing, I would, but I'm stuck with
>doing it this way. Apologies.

Quoting levels looked correct to me. So I think you have to apologize
for the apology.

[Adam H. Kerman]

That was the show I was thinking about. We assume it was the
Intelligence Committee, Senate I think. Secret classified national
security projects may be carried out by non-military personnel,
but they aren't civilian projects for pure scientific research. It
wouldn't have been funded unless they promised military benefit.

Duggy is incorrect. Cannot call a project led by a military officer
"no military" even though civilians played key roles.

[~consul]

'tis on Thu, 19 Jan 2012 14:16:08 -0800 (PST), wrote tenworld thus to essay our thoughts to discern upon,
-------- Original Message --------

> On Jan 19, 10:37 am, Jim G.<jimgy...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> 2. If they can change the past without changing themselves in the
>> process, how will the show create any dramatic tension whatsoever? After
>> all, if one attempt to change/fix things doesn't work, they'll just try
>> again. And again. And again until they get it right. Right? So where's
>> the drama in that?

> thats a good idea actually. Unlike QL where the hero becomes a new
> person each show or BTTF where life is much better for McFly after he
> returns, this show could be like L&O, first half about changing the
> future, second half about how they deal with how their life changed.
> Could even go episode to episode, eg lose a wife one week, gain her
> back the next.

Oh how I miss Journeyman ... :(
--
"... respect, all good works are not done by only good folk. For here, at the end of all things, we shall do what needs to be done."
--till next time, consul -x- <<poetry.dolphins-cove.com>>

[Bill Steele]

On 1/19/12 6:06 PM, David Johnston wrote:
> 2. If they can change the past without changing themselves in the
> process,

That's the fundamental paradox of all time-travel stories: You go back
to change something, and you change it. Now your own past is changed,
and there was no reason for you to go back in time and change something,
so you didn't go back in time. But obviously you did.

At the moment you effect the change you should snap back to the present
with no memory of ever having done any of it. It's that or the alternate
timeline idea.

Lost sort of did both.

[Jim G.]

Professor Bubba sent the following on Fri, 20 Jan 2012 10:03:36 -0500:

> Duggy cross-posted his reply to me without
> notice to some DC Comics ngs

Thanks for the heads-up. This sort of thing always annoys the hell out
of me and makes me wonder about the person who does it. How hard is it,
exactly, to be considerate enough to inform people that you're
crossposting a reply to places that others might not wish to go?

--
Jim G. | Waukesha, WI
NoCLoDS Founding Member (No Cop, Lawyer or Doctor Shows)

[Jim G.]

Jerry Brown sent the following on Thu, 19 Jan 2012 23:30:53 +0000:

> On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 14:16:08 -0800 (PST), tenworld <t...@world.std.com>
> wrote:
>
> >thats a good idea actually. Unlike QL where the hero becomes a new
> >person each show or BTTF where life is much better for McFly after he
> >returns, this show could be like L&O, first half about changing the
> >future, second half about how they deal with how their life changed.
> >Could even go episode to episode, eg lose a wife one week, gain her
> >back the next.
>

> Journeyman was a bit like that; his son changed to a daughter for one
> episode (with much accompanying angst), and the FBI agent who died
> earlier in the series was due to be resurrected had the show
> continued. However, the protagonist had no control over his (for want
> of a better word) leaps.

The fact that JOURNEYMAN died while HEROES lived on says a lot about
what all was going wrong at NBC back at that time.

[trag]

On 1/19/2012 1:43 PM, Bill Steele wrote:

> On 1/19/12 1:37 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>> 2. If they can change the past without changing themselves in the

>> process, how will the show create any dramatic tension whatsoever? After
>> all, if one attempt to change/fix things doesn't work, they'll just try
>> again. And again. And again until they get it right. Right? So where's
>> the drama in that?
>

> That could be a way to make it interesting: change things, screw up, go
> back and try again until they figure out how to get it right. Quantum
> Leap did a lot of that, and thee was a fairly interesting TV movie a few
> years back about somebody trying to stop the Kennedy assassination with
> several go-arounds. I presume it ended unsuccessfully, but at least the
> hero managed to live through it. And then there was "The Butterfly Effect."

For time travel and the Kennedy assassination, nothing is ever going to
top the Red Dwarf episode that dealt with the topic.

--
A friend will help you move. A real friend will help you move a body.

[Duggy]

On Jan 21, 12:34 am, Super-Menace <fortr...@arctic.com.invalid> wrote:
> Then why does the Earth start revolving in the other direction?  If
> Superman is simply trying to stop, there'd be no need to show the Earth
> resuming its normal rotation.

It resumes its normal rotation because it rotates in real time and
he's returned to real time.

> Really?  So you're saying that the end of the movie is caught in an
> infinite, paradoxical loop?  If Superman "flew back in time" to stop
> the earthquake (even though we never see him doing so), then the
> slightly younger Superman would have no reason to "go back in time" to
> stop the earthquake from happening, and we would not have the sequence
> with alive-again Lois and I-was-in-the-earthquake-that-didn't-happen
> Jimmy, and "time-traveling" Superman wouldn't be standing there, etc.,
> etc, etc.

Consumed by temporal flux. Fairly standard stufff. Keep up.

> > > The sequence shows that Superman reversed time just far enough to save
> > > Lois' life, although it's not shown just exactly *how* he saves her
> > > life.  Is it that Superman gets Lois out of the car just before the
> > > crevasse opens?  Jimmy wasn't standing around when the crevasse opened
> > > the first time, but he's there now, and in any case the earthquake is
> > > long over.  Nothing matches up.
> > Because you missed the point.
> I did?  Really?  Superman saves Lois from an earthquake that didn't
> happen but that Jimmy was in?  And *I* missed the point?

Appears so.

> > You're saying the makers of Superman: The Movie are stupid?
> Yeah, pretty much, as the ending is unbelievably stupid.  There were
> other ways for Superman to resolve the situation, as any eight-year-old
> comic book reader could have told them; perhaps they should have hired
> one.  BTW I noticed that you cut all my stuff about "time-traveling"
> Superman doing nothing to stop Luthor or prevent the nuclear explosion,
> which is certainly understandable, since it undercut your whole
> argument.

You missed the point.

===
= DUG.
===

[Joe Ramirez]

On Jan 19, 2:36 pm, Stan Brown <the_stan_br...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> Hmm -- I thought maybe they were filming Ken Grimwood's novel, but
> the synopsis you gave rules that out.
>
> For anyone who wants a good read, I recommend the novel.  On page 1
> the lead character dies of a heart attack at age 44, then wakes up to
> find himself 18 years old again.
>
That's an excellent time-travel (or reincarnation) novel, but it's
"Replay," not "Rewind." I just read it last week. I don't think it
would make a very good TV series, however, because [SPOILER ALERT] no
explanation is ever provided for the replays, and at the end it's not
even clear whether the vast series of replayed years have had any
permanent impact on the characters' "real" (original) timelines. The
book is all about the characters' *experiencing* their lives over and
over in different ways, asking new questions and setting different
goals. Television doesn't handle long-terms stories like that very
well, at least not in an SF context.

[Duggy]

On Jan 21, 12:49 am, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

> Duggy <p.allan.dug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Jan 20, 3:48 pm, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> >>Wasn't there? Al was an active duty Naval officer, and it was a huge
> >>federal black budget project. I don't recall an explanation as to where
> >>it fit into the federal bureaucracy, but it wasn't a civilian project.
> >NASA uses and works with the military, NASA is a civilian project.
> There's a big whoosh, Duggy. The non-military portions of NASA's program
> don't have a black budget (that we know of).

Yes, but they have and still no use military personel in civilian
roles.

> Quantum Leap is a military secret.

Nope. It's funding was debated in open senate hearings.

> >Either way, Al is not "a team of military field operatives" and Sam
> >certainly isn't.
> You're making a distinction without any importance.

You're saying that Rewind is a rehash of Quantum Leap... the fact that
they're sending military field teams through times disagrees.

Seems more like StarGate SG1 meets The Time Tunnel, or Primeval not
Quantum Leap at all.

> They could have been
> a team of bakers and sous chefs but it wouldn't change the basic premise
> of the story, a premise that has been exploited many, many, many times
> in recent memory.

Time travel? Yes. But that's a awfully pathetic claim that all time
travel stories are unoriginal because a completely different show has
been done before.

Quantum Leap is more like an Experiment in Terra than a time travel
show.

===
= DUG.
===

[Professor Bubba]

In article
<27c71a91-8b90-48b3...@k9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>,
Duggy <p.allan...@gmail.com> wrote:

This is nonsense. You've even made up something called "temporal flux"
in a pathetic attempt to explain the absence of the extra Superman who
should have been going around saving everybody in the quake zone while
the other, slightly older Superman was talking to alive-again Lois and
Jimmy in the desert where there was no quake in evidence.

Repeating "you missed the point" is not an argument, especially as you
seem to have no idea of what the point actually was.

[Duggy]

Most shows with time travel do both.

Sometimes within the same jump.

===
= DUG.
===

[Duggy]

On Jan 21, 3:43 am, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> Duggy is incorrect. Cannot call a project led by a military officer
> "no military" even though civilians played key roles.

He doesn't lead the project, he's part of the project.

But it doesn't change the point: Sam is not a military team and your
claim that all time travel stories are the same is false.

===
= DUG.
===

[Adam H. Kerman]

Duggy <p.allan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Jan 21, 12:49 am, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>Duggy <p.allan.dug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>On Jan 20, 3:48 pm, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

>>>>Wasn't there? Al was an active duty Naval officer, and it was a huge
>>>>federal black budget project. I don't recall an explanation as to where
>>>>it fit into the federal bureaucracy, but it wasn't a civilian project.

>>>NASA uses and works with the military, NASA is a civilian project.

>>There's a big whoosh, Duggy. The non-military portions of NASA's program
>>don't have a black budget (that we know of).

>Yes, but they have and still no use military personel in civilian
>roles.

Plenty have come from military pilots. They aren't retired military.

>>Quantum Leap is a military secret.

>Nope. It's funding was debated in open senate hearings.

Several of us have referred to that episode. It was not an open hearing.

>>>Either way, Al is not "a team of military field operatives" and Sam
>>>certainly isn't.

>>You're making a distinction without any importance.

>You're saying that Rewind is a rehash of Quantum Leap... the fact that
>they're sending military field teams through times disagrees.

I mentioned any number of time travel shows and literature. It'll be a
rehash of several common concepts, but it's too early to tell which.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Duggy <p.allan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Jan 21, 3:43 am, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

>>Duggy is incorrect. Cannot call a project led by a military officer
>>"no military" even though civilians played key roles.

>He doesn't lead the project, he's part of the project.

Sam and Al were partners. Neither supervised the other.

>But it doesn't change the point: Sam is not a military team and your
>claim that all time travel stories are the same is false.

Nice straw man.

[Jerry Brown]

If they did do it, they'd probably tweak it like they did with
FlashForward; shorter replay period (even first time round), more
characters (guna gur guerr vqragvsvrq va gur obbx) having replays,
and, of course, a conspiracy who caused them in the first place.

[shawn]

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 14:25:42 -0600, Jim G. <jimg...@geemail.com>
wrote:

While "Journeyman" was the better show, "Heroes" always had more press
which led to more viewers. It wasn't justified (certainly not past the
first couple of seasons of "Heroes") but such is life in Hollywierd.

[dd...@danlan.com]

On Jan 20, 2:02 pm, Bill Steele <w...@cornell.edu> wrote:
> On 1/19/12 6:06 PM, David Johnston wrote:
>
> > 2. If they can change the past without changing themselves in the
> > process,
>
> That's the fundamental paradox of all time-travel stories: You go back
> to change something, and you change it. Now your own past is changed,
> and there was no reason for you to go back in time and change something,
> so you didn't go back in time. But obviously you did.

That's why you have to be careful to tell your past self to go back
anyway,
make the change, and tell your past self to go back anyway...

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com

[David Loewe, Jr.]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 22:24:44 +0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<a...@chinet.com> wrote:

>>http://www.deadline.com/2012/01/syfy-greenlights-2-hour-rewind-action-thriller-pilot/

>
>>Syfy Greenlights 2-Hour ‘Rewind’ Action Thriller Pilot
>>By NELLIE ANDREEVA
>
>> EXCLUSIVE: In its first pilot pickup in more than an year, Syfy has
>>given the green light to Rewind, an action thriller from feature
>>writer Justin Marks (Street Fighter), BermanBraun and Universal Cable
>>Prods. Rewind, which has received an order for a two-hour pilot,
>>revolves around a team of military field operatives and civilian
>>scientists who must use untested technology to travel back in time to
>>alter past events in order to change the future and avoid a
>>devastating terrorist attack. Marks wrote the script and will
>>executive produce the pilot with veteran showrunner Tom Spezialy
>>(Chaos), Gail Berman, Lloyd Braun and Gene Stein.
>
>Is somebody claiming there is anything original about this?
>

>Seven Days, Quantum Leap, 100 or so novels like A Connecticut Yankee In
>King Arthur's Court

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replay_%28novel%29 - an excellent book.
*HIGHLY* recommended.

Groundhog Day

>Time Tunnel claimed they were trying not to change things.
>
>Producers use this technology to sabotage meetings with network programming
>executives of rival producers. Clearly, there's no other explanation for
>Jerry Bruckheimer.
--
"On a morning from a Bogart movie
In a country where they turn back time
You go strolling through the crowd like Peter Lorre
Contemplating a crime."
Al Stewart & Peter Wood

[David V. Loewe, Jr]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 21:38:20 -0500, Professor Bubba
<bu...@nowhere.edu.invalid> wrote:

>In article <jf7grc$eor$1...@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman

><a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>> >>http://www.deadline.com/2012/01/syfy-greenlights-2-hour-rewind-action-thriller-pilot/
>>
>> >Syfy Greenlights 2-Hour ‘Rewind’ Action Thriller Pilot
>> >By NELLIE ANDREEVA
>>
>> > EXCLUSIVE: In its first pilot pickup in more than an year, Syfy has
>> >given the green light to Rewind, an action thriller from feature
>> >writer Justin Marks (Street Fighter), BermanBraun and Universal Cable
>> >Prods. Rewind, which has received an order for a two-hour pilot,
>> >revolves around a team of military field operatives and civilian
>> >scientists who must use untested technology to travel back in time to
>> >alter past events in order to change the future and avoid a
>> >devastating terrorist attack. Marks wrote the script and will
>> >executive produce the pilot with veteran showrunner Tom Spezialy
>> >(Chaos), Gail Berman, Lloyd Braun and Gene Stein.
>>
>> Is somebody claiming there is anything original about this?
>>
>> Seven Days, Quantum Leap, 100 or so novels like A Connecticut Yankee In

^^^^^^^^^^
>> King Arthur's Court

>>
>> Time Tunnel claimed they were trying not to change things.
>
>

>There's also Seven Days, the Jonathan LaPaglia thing where he'd go back
>in time seven days to thwart assassinations and so on.

Which is the first thing Adam *named*, but I digress...
--
"Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
- First Baron Acton, 1834 - 1902

[Duggy]

On Jan 21, 9:32 am, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

> Duggy <p.allan.dug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Jan 21, 3:43 am, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> >>Duggy is incorrect. Cannot call a project led by a military officer
> >>"no military" even though civilians played key roles.
> >He doesn't lead the project, he's part of the project.
> Sam and Al were partners. Neither supervised the other.

Then way did you claim that Al was the military leader of the project?

> >But it doesn't change the point:  Sam is not a military team and your
> >claim that all time travel stories are the same is false.
> Nice straw man.

Yeah, right.

Did you or did you not claim that Rewind's sending a military time
through time was unoriginal because it was the same as Sam Becket
being sent through time?

===
= DUG.
===

[Duggy]

On Jan 21, 9:31 am, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> Duggy <p.allan.dug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Jan 21, 12:49 am, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> >>Duggy <p.allan.dug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>On Jan 20, 3:48 pm, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> >>>>Wasn't there? Al was an active duty Naval officer, and it was a huge
> >>>>federal black budget project. I don't recall an explanation as to where
> >>>>it fit into the federal bureaucracy, but it wasn't a civilian project.
> >>>NASA uses and works with the military, NASA is a civilian project.
> >>There's a big whoosh, Duggy. The non-military portions of NASA's program
> >>don't have a black budget (that we know of).
> >Yes, but they have and still no use military personel in civilian
> >roles.
> Plenty have come from military pilots. They aren't retired military.

Exactly.

> >>Quantum Leap is a military secret.
> >Nope.  It's funding was debated in open senate hearings.
> Several of us have referred to that episode. It was not an open hearing.

You obviously didn't watch the ep.

> >>>Either way, Al is not "a team of military field operatives" and Sam
> >>>certainly isn't.
> >>You're making a distinction without any importance.
> >You're saying that Rewind is a rehash of Quantum Leap... the fact that
> >they're sending military field teams through times disagrees.
> I mentioned any number of time travel shows and literature. It'll be a
> rehash of several common concepts, but it's too early to tell which.

Clear none from Quantum Leap.

===
= DUG.
===

[Adam H. Kerman]

Duggy <p.allan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Jan 21, 9:31 am, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>> Duggy <p.allan.dug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Jan 21, 12:49 am, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>> >>Duggy <p.allan.dug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>On Jan 20, 3:48 pm, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>> >>>>Wasn't there? Al was an active duty Naval officer, and it was a huge
>> >>>>federal black budget project. I don't recall an explanation as to where
>> >>>>it fit into the federal bureaucracy, but it wasn't a civilian project.
>> >>>NASA uses and works with the military, NASA is a civilian project.
>> >>There's a big whoosh, Duggy. The non-military portions of NASA's program
>> >>don't have a black budget (that we know of).
>> >Yes, but they have and still no use military personel in civilian
>> >roles.
>> Plenty have come from military pilots. They aren't retired military.
>
>Exactly.
>
>> >>Quantum Leap is a military secret.
>> >Nope.  It's funding was debated in open senate hearings.
>> Several of us have referred to that episode. It was not an open hearing.

>You obviously didn't watch the ep.

Then why wasn't the project written up in the media? It would have
been huge news.

You've written yourself into a corner and you keep digging your grave
deeper.

[Duggy]

On Jan 21, 4:40 pm, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> Duggy  <p.allan.dug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Jan 21, 9:31 am, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> >> Duggy <p.allan.dug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Jan 21, 12:49 am, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> >> >>Duggy <p.allan.dug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>On Jan 20, 3:48 pm, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> >> >>>>Wasn't there? Al was an active duty Naval officer, and it was a huge
> >> >>>>federal black budget project. I don't recall an explanation as to where
> >> >>>>it fit into the federal bureaucracy, but it wasn't a civilian project.
> >> >>>NASA uses and works with the military, NASA is a civilian project.
> >> >>There's a big whoosh, Duggy. The non-military portions of NASA's program
> >> >>don't have a black budget (that we know of).
> >> >Yes, but they have and still no use military personel in civilian
> >> >roles.
> >> Plenty have come from military pilots. They aren't retired military.
>
> >Exactly.
>
> >> >>Quantum Leap is a military secret.
> >> >Nope.  It's funding was debated in open senate hearings.
> >> Several of us have referred to that episode. It was not an open hearing.
> >You obviously didn't watch the ep.
> Then why wasn't the project written up in the media? It would have
> been huge news.

Maybe it was... it was 8 or so years in the future.

We only saw a little of that future when one of the leapees escaped.

===
= DUG.
===

[Jim G.]

Bill Steele sent the following on Fri, 20 Jan 2012 14:02:55 -0500:

> On 1/19/12 6:06 PM, David Johnston wrote:
> > 2. If they can change the past without changing themselves in the
> > process,
>
> That's the fundamental paradox of all time-travel stories: You go back
> to change something, and you change it. Now your own past is changed,
> and there was no reason for you to go back in time and change something,
> so you didn't go back in time. But obviously you did.

Which doesn't apply if you buy into the multiverse approach, in which
case the world that you left behind when you went back in time continues
to toddle along even as you yourself join a new and different timeline.

> At the moment you effect the change you should snap back to the present
> with no memory of ever having done any of it.

Exactly. And that "no memory" bit is key. In fact, it's a reminder that
we may have already conquered time travel but simply don't know it
anymore. :)

> It's that or the alternate
> timeline idea.
>
> Lost sort of did both.

I really liked the whole "self-correcting" idea behind time travel in
LOST.

[Duggy]

On Jan 22, 8:53 am, Jim G. <jimgy...@geemail.com> wrote:
> Which doesn't apply if you buy into the multiverse approach, in which
> case the world that you left behind when you went back in time continues
> to toddle along even as you yourself join a new and different timeline.

Or it just ends. Without a way to travel dimensionally there's no way
to say.

===
= DUG.
===

[Winston]

Jim G. <jimgy...@geemail.com> posted:

>> Which doesn't apply if you buy into the multiverse approach, in which
>> case the world that you left behind when you went back in time continues
>> to toddle along even as you yourself join a new and different timeline.

Duggy <p.allan...@gmail.com> replied:

> Or it just ends. Without a way to travel dimensionally there's no way
> to say.

Actually, this is a great point that I hadn't considered before. In the
"creates an alternate universe" version of time travel, what do people in
the original universe see? Answer: Time travel that doesn't change the
original universe isn't really time travel -- it's just dimension hopping,
of no benefit to anyone but the traveller. In the original universe, the
time traveller disappears and nothing else changes, which is pretty
useless. So, as a purely practical matter, nobody would spend millions of
dollars on fancy equipment to do that unless (like Terra Nova) a whole lot
of people were going to be able to make the trip, or unless there were a
way for them to come back or send something back (even if just information)
so that the future of the original universe could thereby be changed
(again, like Terra Nova).

Thanks,
-WBE

[Duggy]

On Jan 23, 1:43 am, w...@ubeblock.psr.com.invalid (Winston) wrote:
> Jim G. <jimgy...@geemail.com> posted:
>
> >> Which doesn't apply if you buy into the multiverse approach, in which
> >> case the world that you left behind when you went back in time continues
> >> to toddle along even as you yourself join a new and different timeline.
>

> Duggy <p.allan.dug...@gmail.com> replied:

>
> > Or it just ends.  Without a way to travel dimensionally there's no way
> > to say.
>
>    Actually, this is a great point that I hadn't considered before.  In the
> "creates an alternate universe" version of time travel, what do people in
> the original universe see?  Answer: Time travel that doesn't change the
> original universe isn't really time travel -- it's just dimension hopping,

Not quite dimension hopping, rather dimension creating.

> of no benefit to anyone but the traveller.

Pretty much true.

> In the original universe, the
> time traveller disappears and nothing else changes, which is pretty
> useless.  So, as a purely practical matter, nobody would spend millions of
> dollars on fancy equipment

Lack of government oversight.

> to do that unless (like Terra Nova) a whole lot
> of people were going to be able to make the trip, or unless there were a
> way for them to come back or send something back (even if just information)
> so that the future of the original universe could thereby be changed
> (again, like Terra Nova).

True.

===
= DUG.
===

[Duggy]

On Jan 21, 7:43 am, Professor Bubba <bu...@nowhere.edu.invalid> wrote:
> In article

> <27c71a91-8b90-48b3-a97e-7d1ee5c0e...@k9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>,

Google search:

About 14,900,000 results (0.18 seconds)

Idiot.

> Repeating "you missed the point" is not an argument, especially as you
> seem to have no idea of what the point actually was.

You've missed the point.

Idiot.

===
= DUG.
===

[Professor Bubba]

In article
<c11d1e4e-c0d7-4dcd...@b4g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>,

Duggy <p.allan...@gmail.com> wrote:


> You've missed the point.
>
> Idiot.

So, really, after several days of really deep thinking, all you've come
up with is a little bit of childish name-calling -- that, and changing
the followups without notice again so your pals in r.a.s.t can't see
what a mess you've made in your pants.

You're not worth my time or anyone else's. Buh-bye.

[Bill Steele]

On 1/20/12 3:25 PM, Jim G. wrote:
> Professor Bubba sent the following on Fri, 20 Jan 2012 10:03:36 -0500:
>> Duggy cross-posted his reply to me without
>> notice to some DC Comics ngs
>
> Thanks for the heads-up. This sort of thing always annoys the hell out
> of me and makes me wonder about the person who does it. How hard is it,
> exactly, to be considerate enough to inform people that you're
> crossposting a reply to places that others might not wish to go?
>

How hard is it to be considerate enough to check the crossposts yourself
before clicking "Send?" If everyone did that, trolls would be out of
business.

[Bill Steele]

Time travel changes the whole universe in which the time-traveling was
done, so the traveler does come back and finds things changed. There's
another universe where they didn't build a time machine and nothing
changed. The catch is, Why did the people in the univese where things
had changed build a time machine?

Maybe it would work if we put a "time-insulating field" around the whole
time machine project.

[Jim G.]

Professor Bubba sent the following on Mon, 23 Jan 2012 08:44:22 -0500:

From what I've seen of Duggy elsewhere, he can't quite seem to decide
whether he wants to be a legitimate contributor or a troll, so he goes
for a bit of each. He's certainly not acting any differently here.

[Jim G.]

Winston sent the following on 22 Jan 2012 10:43:43 -0500:

> Jim G. <jimgy...@geemail.com> posted:
> >> Which doesn't apply if you buy into the multiverse approach, in which
> >> case the world that you left behind when you went back in time continues
> >> to toddle along even as you yourself join a new and different timeline.
>
> Duggy <p.allan...@gmail.com> replied:
> > Or it just ends. Without a way to travel dimensionally there's no way
> > to say.
>
> Actually, this is a great point that I hadn't considered before. In the
> "creates an alternate universe" version of time travel, what do people in
> the original universe see? Answer: Time travel that doesn't change the
> original universe isn't really time travel -- it's just dimension hopping,
> of no benefit to anyone but the traveller. In the original universe, the
> time traveller disappears and nothing else changes, which is pretty
> useless.

First, if nothing else changed, I wouldn't agree that it's useless.
Second, and by definition, something *does* change: the person who
disappeared has disappeared. That means that any interactions with that
person that *would have* happened will not. And anything that that
person *would have* done to make the world better or worse in the future
will not happen.

> So, as a purely practical matter, nobody would spend millions of
> dollars on fancy equipment to do that unless (like Terra Nova) a whole lot
> of people were going to be able to make the trip, or unless there were a
> way for them to come back or send something back (even if just information)
> so that the future of the original universe could thereby be changed
> (again, like Terra Nova).

The ability to "hop" back to the original timeline after making a jump
would be a nice thing to have in a lot of fiction. The question with
regard to multiverses is whether those forks in timelines ever rejoin or
not. Do they just continue to run parallel, making a "hop" back that
much more difficult, or are they like ropes that can get tangled up with
one another just as easily as not? Some people who buy into the tangled
rope-type of approach have also gone so far as to say that what we
experience in a deja-vu moment is something along the lines of those
ropes crossing one another, giving us a glimpse or "feel" for what's
going on on another strand of rope. Pretty cool concept, even if it's
unlike to ever be proven one way or another.

[Duggy]

On Jan 24, 6:14 am, Jim G. <jimgy...@geemail.com> wrote:
> Professor Bubba sent the following on Mon, 23 Jan 2012 08:44:22 -0500:
>
> > In article

> > <c11d1e4e-c0d7-4dcd-b4a8-2e960f6e7...@b4g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>,

> > Duggy <p.allan.dug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > You've missed the point.
>
> > > Idiot.
>
> > So, really, after several days of really deep thinking, all you've come
> > up with is a little bit of childish name-calling -- that, and changing
> > the followups without notice again so your pals in r.a.s.t can't see
> > what a mess you've made in your pants.
>
> > You're not worth my time or anyone else's.  Buh-bye.
>
> From what I've seen of Duggy elsewhere, he can't quite seem to decide
> whether he wants to be a legitimate contributor or a troll, so he goes
> for a bit of each. He's certainly not acting any differently here.

You have to weed out the crap posters.

===
= DUG.
===

[Duggy]

On Jan 23, 11:44 pm, Professor Bubba <bu...@nowhere.edu.invalid>
wrote:
> In article
> <c11d1e4e-c0d7-4dcd-b4a8-2e960f6e7...@b4g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>,

>
> Duggy <p.allan.dug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > You've missed the point.
>
> > Idiot.
>
> So, really, after several days of really deep thinking, all you've come
> up with is a little bit of childish name-calling -- that, and changing
> the followups without notice again so your pals in r.a.s.t can't see
> what a mess you've made in your pants.
>
> You're not worth my time or anyone else's.  Buh-bye.

Score!

===
= DUG.
===

[Duggy]

On Jan 24, 5:14 am, Bill Steele <w...@cornell.edu> wrote:
> On 1/22/12 10:43 AM, Winston wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Jim G.<jimgy...@geemail.com>  posted:
> >>> Which doesn't apply if you buy into the multiverse approach, in which
> >>> case the world that you left behind when you went back in time continues
> >>> to toddle along even as you yourself join a new and different timeline.
>

> > Duggy<p.allan.dug...@gmail.com>  replied:

> >> Or it just ends.  Without a way to travel dimensionally there's no way
> >> to say.
>
> >     Actually, this is a great point that I hadn't considered before.  In the
> > "creates an alternate universe" version of time travel, what do people in
> > the original universe see?  Answer: Time travel that doesn't change the
> > original universe isn't really time travel -- it's just dimension hopping,
> > of no benefit to anyone but the traveller.  In the original universe, the
> > time traveller disappears and nothing else changes, which is pretty
> > useless.  So, as a purely practical matter, nobody would spend millions of
> > dollars on fancy equipment to do that unless (like Terra Nova) a whole lot
> > of people were going to be able to make the trip, or unless there were a
> > way for them to come back or send something back (even if just information)
> > so that the future of the original universe could thereby be changed
> > (again, like Terra Nova).

> Time travel changes the whole universe in which the time-traveling was
> done,

Not in a branching universe style time travel, which is the one being
discussed in this thread.

> so the traveler does come back and finds things changed. There's
> another universe where they didn't build a time machine and nothing
> changed. The catch is, Why did the people in the univese where things
> had changed build a time machine?

The people in the changed timeline don't have to. The people in the
original (still existing) timeline did it for them.

> Maybe it would work if we put a "time-insulating field" around the whole
> time machine project.

Usually claimed to be naturally occuring.

===
= DUG.
===

[Professor Bubba]

In article
<ba2e835c-9a3a-4dc9...@b4g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>,

Consider yourself weeded.

[Jim G.]

Bill Steele sent the following on Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:00:37 -0500:

Not hard at all. It also wouldn't be hard for me to look up every time I
walk outside to ensure that a meteor isn't heading my way.

> If everyone did that, trolls would be out of
> business.

What does that have to do with the fact that it's a douche move to add
groups to a reply without pointing out what you're doing?

[Jim G.]

Duggy sent the following on Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:14:37 -0800 (PST):

Which is what the people plonking you left and right are doing, but it
seems that you have a dubious and contrary view. Which is pretty funny,
really. In any case, it doesn't take any particular talent to be a
jackhat who gets plonked, as you've been demonstrating on a daily basis
lately.

[Duggy]

On Jan 24, 9:18 am, Professor Bubba <bu...@nowhere.edu.invalid> wrote:
> In article

> <ba2e835c-9a3a-4dc9-8b67-a7356dafa...@b4g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>,

Damn. You're a fake-weeder.

You said "Buh-bye". Now fuck off. Don't make yourself a liar.

===
= DUG.
===

[Duggy]

I always wonder about those people who live in mortal fear of being
crossposted.

Do they fear muggers and rapists and bears?

Oh, my.

===
= DUG.
===

[Duggy]

On Jan 24, 11:50 am, Jim G. <jimgy...@geemail.com> wrote:
> What does that have to do with the fact that it's a douche move to add
> groups to a reply without pointing out what you're doing?

Your life is *soooo* hard.

===
= DUG.
===

[Professor Bubba]

In article
<79edc19b-9896-4786...@iu7g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>,

Ah, here comes Fugly again. Apparently any criticism of the
incomprehensible ending of a 34-year-old movie makes you go completely
nuts. Do you run around the house with a towel tied around your neck,
too?

[Duggy]

On Jan 25, 12:26 am, Professor Bubba <bu...@nowhere.edu.invalid>
wrote:
> In article
> <79edc19b-9896-4786-a189-8ca1168a2...@iu7g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>,

What part of "Buh-bye" was the lie? All of it?

> Do you run around the house with a towel tied around your neck,
> too?

Yes. So?

===
= DUG.
===

[Duggy]

On Jan 24, 6:14 am, Jim G. <jimgy...@geemail.com> wrote:
> Winston sent the following on 22 Jan 2012 10:43:43 -0500:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Jim G. <jimgy...@geemail.com> posted:
> > >> Which doesn't apply if you buy into the multiverse approach, in which
> > >> case the world that you left behind when you went back in time continues
> > >> to toddle along even as you yourself join a new and different timeline.
>

> > Duggy <p.allan.dug...@gmail.com> replied:

These sort of things are more often investigate in comics than any
other format... in my experience.

===
= DUG.
===

[Duggy]

On Jan 24, 11:50 am, Jim G. <jimgy...@geemail.com> wrote:
> Duggy sent the following on Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:14:37 -0800 (PST):
> > On Jan 24, 6:14 am, Jim G. <jimgy...@geemail.com> wrote:
> > > Professor Bubba sent the following on Mon, 23 Jan 2012 08:44:22 -0500:
>
> > > > In article
> > > > <c11d1e4e-c0d7-4dcd-b4a8-2e960f6e7...@b4g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > Duggy <p.allan.dug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > You've missed the point.
>
> > > > > Idiot.
>
> > > > So, really, after several days of really deep thinking, all you've come
> > > > up with is a little bit of childish name-calling -- that, and changing
> > > > the followups without notice again so your pals in r.a.s.t can't see
> > > > what a mess you've made in your pants.
>
> > > > You're not worth my time or anyone else's.  Buh-bye.
>
> > > From what I've seen of Duggy elsewhere, he can't quite seem to decide
> > > whether he wants to be a legitimate contributor or a troll, so he goes
> > > for a bit of each. He's certainly not acting any differently here.
>
> > You have to weed out the crap posters.
>
> Which is what the people plonking you left and right are doing,

Exactly. Weeding themselves out.

Thank God.

> In any case, it doesn't take any particular talent to be a
> jackhat who gets plonked, as you've been demonstrating on a daily basis
> lately.

1. You seem to have a creepy knowledge of other people's killfiles.
2. It's isn't as easy as you think. Just look at Protester Bubba.

===
= DUG.
===