Babylon 5 in HD
aklendathu
(including TLT) in High-Definition ?
The TV shows probably would need extensive FX reworking but maybe not
so the more recent movies...
Dan Neely
aklendathu <ncc-...@clix.pt> typed:
The original FX are totally gone. They only rendered TV grade at the time
since just that much maxed out the rendering farm, with the intent of
rendering in higher quality if needed in the future with much faster
machines. So far, so good. Unfortunately once the series was over the
studio demanded that every copy of the material used to generate the SFX was
handed over to them. WB then promptly lost it. DOH!
Under those circumstances the odds of new HD quality SFX being produced from
scratch is if not quite zero, then so infintesimally small as to be smaller
than the Londo/Gkar ticket's chance of winning in this novembers presidental
election.
--
If you view money as inherently evil,
I view it as my duty to assist in making you more virtuous.
Jon Schild
And since neither Loneo nor G'kar is a natural born US citizen, those
odds are mighty low.
--
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-- Galileo Galilei
John W. Kennedy
Not strictly. They /could/ be redone from scratch -- even the mixed
scenes, if the greenscreen elements are still available. After all,
"Star Trek" TOS just did that, and, more to the point, it was done for
the Producer's Cut of "The Gathering".
--
John W. Kennedy
"The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have
always objected to being governed at all."
-- G. K. Chesterton. "The Man Who Was Thursday"
Shabaz
TLT was shot in HD and had its effects done in HD, so there definitely
is a good chance it will come out on Blu-ray eventually (the HD disc
format WB has chosen to support, and which now seems be the likely
winner of this format war). And TLT should be available in HD on the
Xbox Live Video Marketplace, so if you have 360 you might want to
check that out. You can take a peek at how TLT looks at those
resolutions at the website of one of the people in charge of the 3d CG
here: http://www.alecm.com/gallery.htm (warning, possible spoilers for
other shows he has worked on, like BSG)
As for the original show, that was shot on film (Super 35 to be
precise, which allows for comfortable cropping to both wide and 4:3).
Film can be telecined at much higher resolution than it has been so
far (NTSC/PAL and their respective wide anamorphic variants). So for
at least the live action scenes the possibility of getting those in HD
exists technically. Though at least on my DVDs there exists some
substantial problems with dirt and grain and lighting/exposure, and
some substantial cleanup work would need to be done to make it look
nice at HD.
The real problem however, as others have pointed out, is with the CG
scenes, and scenes where CG and live action elements are composited
together. The original CG files are lost, and those shots were never
rendered out beyond the original 480i broadcast resolution. So all of
those would need to be recreated. The treatment Paramount has given to
Star Trek TOS seems to suggest it being possible to do that, but B5 to
WB doesn't seem nearly the flagship property that ST is to Paramount.
And WB seems to have chosen to use the little bit of money they're
willing to spend on B5 on new content (which isn't necessarily a bad
thing, of course).
One thing I'm not sure anyone is 100% clear on is if the original film
elements of the composited shots are still around. This JMS post
strongly suggest they are ( http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-16691
):
>Nor can this footage be re-rendered because the separate elements do not exist
>anymore, only the original un-comped film elements are there. The CGI files
>are not around anymore, and to recreate every shot would be prohibitively
>expensive. In a big way.
But it is a side comment to his argument, and I'm not sure if they
actually went through the archives back then and check if all those
film elements for those comped were still there.
-Shabaz
cmulder
> Below/interspersed
>
> The original FX are totally gone. They only rendered TV grade at the time
> since just that much maxed out the rendering farm, with the intent of
> rendering in higher quality if needed in the future with much faster
> machines. So far, so good. Unfortunately once the series was over the
> studio demanded that every copy of the material used to generate the SFX was
> handed over to them. WB then promptly lost it. DOH!
>
Actually i think the odds might not be as bad as you think but a few
things need to happen first.
When a new Babylon 5 show goes into production they will need to make
new SFX that are in HD. I think TLT might have already started this
process. Now if we ever get a full series or movie a lot of new SFX
will need to be created.
At that time it might be financially feasible to create a new HD box
set for the older B5's productions all in HD.
We know that B5 sold amazingly on DVD. Currently they are working on
new SFX for the original Star Trek and then releasing it in HD. If
that Project goes well then we could see something happen with B5.
Also it wouldn't just be for the DVD market. You might be able to re-
release to syndication the new HD babylon 5. I doubt the ratings
would be all that great, BUT, it would be fairly cheap to produce.
I think this is something that will happen one day. All we need is
for a new B5 series and/or movie to go into production, and other
projects like the Star Trek original series re-release to be
profitable. Both things are very likely.
Hauke Kruppa
cmulder wrote on 04.02.2008 01:05:
> All we need is
> for a new B5 series and/or movie to go into production, and other
> projects like the Star Trek original series re-release to be
> profitable. Both things are very likely.
Did I miss something here? TLT *may* be continued after the strike is
over. But there is *no* actual rumor about a real series, please correct
me if I'm wrong.
I would like to see B5 or a spin-off to go live again. But WB just wants
to make money out of us w/o investing it. TLT #1 was on a tight budget
despite the fact that the DVDs of the original B5 sold beyond every
expectation.
Now that two major characters went "beyond the rim" a B5-"sequel" is out
of the question. As time goes by, so will the rest of the staff. And JMS
is already 53, becoming 54 in July. Statistically speaking, only 89,721
per cent survive until they're 55. TLT was announced 2006 and released
2007. Maybe we will see #2 in 2008 (delayed because of the strike). How
long will it take, given that rate, that some boss at WB actually funds
a real new series? Don't forget that WB simply didn't support B5 since
it finished. They just squeezed the money out of us.
But then again, maybe a miracle happens and we will see the new series
in 2 - 10 years, spanning around 5 years, so it would need at least 7
years until the new series is finished. JMS likeliness to live to see
the end of that project would be 85.811 per cent.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr55/nvsr55_19.pdf
In 15 years (the project starting in 10 years), JMS likelines to have
survived the series is 71.795 per cent. And then subdact all people who
aren't able to work anymore at that age. JMS is critical for that
project to be successful.
And then subdact the fact that WB doesn't like B5.
And then subdact the mortality for the other major actors we would like
to see again.
"Very likely"? I don't think so.
Hauke
Joseph DeMartino
> We know that B5 sold amazingly on DVD. Currently they are working on
> new SFX for the original Star Trek and then releasing it in HD. If
> that Project goes well then we could see something happen with B5.
Yes, "B5" sold very well on DVD and *way* beyond expectations. But it
pays to remember that
(a) those expectations were very low and
(b) "B5" still isn't remotely the license to print money that "Star
Trek" is and always has been since the day "TOS" went into
syndication.
What happens with "Trek" tells us *nothing* about what could happen
with "B5". It really is that simple.
They could afford to re-do the SFX, etc. for "TOS" because they had an
HD broadcast deal in place and because "Trek" is one of the few
television properties that can sell well enough in the still-small HD-
DVD market to turn a profit. In fact, putting "Trek" out on HD-DVD is
one way to drive player sales. "Trek" has always been an exception in
this regard. It was one the handful of TV series that could sustain
full-season releases on VHS and laserdisc, prior to the advent of
DVD. (The other two were the original versions of "The Twilight Zone"
and "The Outer Limits". Notably "The X-Files" *couldn't* manage a
full-season release on VHS and never made it to LD as far as I know.
And yet that was the show that launched the full-season TV boxed set
revolution on DVD, at a time when "Trek" was still coming out on
individaul 2-episode discs.)
"B5" isn't currently on the air even in standard def syndication in
the States, so it isn't like there are stations lining up to get their
hands on the show and panting for an HD version.. And given the
relative size of the standard-def DVD market and the intalled base of
Blu Ray players, it seems unlikely that WB could sell enough BD copies
of "B5" to earn the cost of the upgrade back.
In a few years, who knows? The cost of computing power keeps coming
down, so it will gradually get cheaper to render the masses of
material needed, the installed base of HDTVs (still small) and Blu Ray
players will increase. So I won't say this is *never* going to
happen. But I will say it isn't going to happen anytime soon, and
something is going to have to change the costs or the economic
incentives before this makes sense to Warner Bros.
At the moment the combined HD-DVD and Blu Ray market is so small that
"Trek: TOS" is the *only* TV-on-DVD offering being considered for
release on hi-def media. For one thing, not every series is going to
see enough of an *obvious* improvement to really benefit from the hi-
def treatment. (I'm sure "I Love Lucy" would look great in HD, just
as "Casablanca" does. But most casual move-watchers wouldn't be able
to tell the difference between an SD DVD of "Casablanca" scaled up to
1080p on an HD set and a genuine 1080p Blu Ray or HD-DVD copy.) And
still fewer are going to be improved enough to tempt fans who probably
already own the SD versions of the series to "double dip". It is
expensive enough buying multiple copies of films (I've lost track of
how many copies of the original "Star Wars" trilogy I've owned on VHS,
LD, and DVD) but with 5 and 6 disc TV seasons it is insane. CBS Home
Video is currently toying with the idea of releasing season one of
"CSI", another SFX-heavy show. The first season was only released in
4:3 and with few extras on SD-DVD, while the later seasons were all
16:9 widescreen and included numerous audio commentaries as well as
more documentaries and interviews, so re-issuing it on HD-DVD in a
"special edition" would give fans an extra incentive to buy it.
OTOH the widely-predicted demise of HD-DVD, the result of WB's
defection to Blu Ray, might put a kink in CBS's plans. They release
their DVDs through Paramount, and Paramount is one of the few studios
that releases exclusively in HD-DVD and doesn't do Blu Ray.
Regards,
Joe
David Williams
"Hauke Kruppa" <nosp...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:47a80adb$0$9117$9b4e...@newsspool2.arcor-online.net...
WARNING: HERESY ALERT!!!
> I would like to see B5 or a spin-off to go live again.
I... wouldn't.
There, I said it.
jms's creation, Babylon5, was a masterpiece of fiction, a masterpiece of
SCIENCE-fiction, and a masterpiece of television.
But, I believe jms's talents are too great to allow himself to get stuck in
a rut, continuing to try and force out work within this one universe. I
think Crusade would have been fun, but it was not to be. And while I
appreciate his efforts, TLT #1 was for me a disappointment, and came across
as a forced effort. I would far rather see him continue to stretch his
wings and produce work in different universes.
He already has, and some of it has been absolutely stunning.
Here are links to a couple of 10-year-old jms quotes that I think are
applicable:
http://tinyurl.com/3yzxf6
http://tinyurl.com/372cf4
I know he would never abandon us, his biggest fans.
We, for our part, owe it to him to recognize that his career has moved on.
So, no, you will never hear me clamoring for more B5.
B5's story has been told.
jms did leave plenty of room for new stories in the B5 universe.
But I'd prefer to hear all the OTHER stories that he has to tell.
Warmest regards from a true fan,
David W.
David Williams
"Hauke Kruppa" <nosp...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:47a80adb$0$9117$9b4e...@newsspool2.arcor-online.net...
Economics 101: Who wouldn't?
Not that I applaud WB's decisions, I just recognize the realities.
<snip long series of grim statistics on aging>
As the actors from the original series age and/or die, it makes it
increasingly difficult to imagine new episodes or "sequels" featuring those
actors. Besides which, I feel that most of the better part of their Stories
have already been told. There's just not that much more you could "say"
about those characters. You'd have to do something with an entirely new
cast within the B5 universe. Same as Star Trek did.
But, as noted in my heretical other reply, I'd rather see something entirely
new from jms instead.
Regards,
David W.
Hauke Kruppa
> WARNING: HERESY ALERT!!!
>
>> I would like to see B5 or a spin-off to go live again.
>
> I... wouldn't.
Ok. This this your opinion.
> But, I believe jms's talents are too great to allow himself to get
> stuck in a rut, continuing to try and force out work within this one
> universe.
OK. I don't like "twilight Zone". I don't like "Spiderman" (or any other
super-hero comic) and the rest?
- He-Man and the Masters of the Universe - sucks
- Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors - what is that?
- Twilight Zone - sucks
- The Real Ghostbusters - am I 6 years old?
- Jake und McCabe - What is that?
- Captain Power - sucks
- Murder, She Wrote - a series so bad that it hurts
- She-Ra - sucks
- Spiral Zone (as Fettes Grey) - what is that?
- CBS Story Break - what is that?
- Walker, Texas Ranger -> It should be illegal to support rubbish like
this :)
> I think Crusade would have been fun, but it was not to be.
But JMS wanted to do it and we wanted to see it. There is a demand,
people are willing to pay *much* money for B5 (q.e.d.), so I can't
believe that capitalism didn't work here. I understand the decision made
by the channel, but in the long run it should have worked out.
> And while I appreciate his efforts, TLT #1 was for me a
> disappointment, and came across as a forced effort.
Well, to me, the only problem was that for the first time ever JMS
imposed his Christian believes upon us. Being an Atheist, this was hard
to swallow. The rest was nice, given the tight budget.
> I would far rather see him continue to stretch his wings and produce
> work in different universes.
Well, this is not what *I* want. I am not a fan of JMS, I like this
particular work. I don't watch non-SF-series. In fact, beside B5 I never
ever found a TV series worth watching, SF or not.
I like the changes the characters made. I liked their development. Some
of the things JMS let them say was actually very wise. I liked the
actors/cast. Some of them are actually able to do a monologue. This
fascinated me.
That's why I liked Galen, G'Kar, Jack the ripper, The Regent ("I have
been foolish, ... but I am still Centauri")
I want some of this. Not The Real Ghostbusters :)
> He already has, and some of it has been absolutely stunning.
Which one? Do you find "Walker" stunning? :)
But seriously. I just red he wrote some horror-novels. Are they worth
reading? Given the fact that I don't like Comics or TV-series like
"Murder, She Wrote" - what did I miss from JMS? Did he make one of the
series I don't know (see above) by himself?
> But I'd prefer to hear all the OTHER stories that he has to tell.
This is your opinion and I can see your point. And as long as it is a
(SF- ?) series he does by himself, I would give it a shot. The dialogues
and the characters would be good, because JMS wrote them. The cast would
be good because he casted them. But for me things like He-Man or She-Ra
are absolutely out of the question.
Best Regards from a not so true JMS-, but rather a B5-fan
Hauke
Hauke Kruppa
if you're not "a true fan"?
Hauke Kruppa
>> But WB just wants to make money out of us w/o investing it.
>
> Economics 101: Who wouldn't? Not that I applaud WB's decisions, I
> just recognize the realities.
Given. But from a economic point of view, these decisions were and are
bad. There is a huge demand and they won't deliver, because it doesn't
fit in their tiny brains that you could actually do intelligent SF on
Television and make money out of it.
> <snip long series of grim statistics on aging>
>
> As the actors from the original series age and/or die, it makes it
> increasingly difficult to imagine new episodes or "sequels" featuring
> those actors. Besides which, I feel that most of the better part of
> their Stories have already been told.
> There's just not that much
> more you could "say" about those characters. You'd have to do
> something with an entirely new cast within the B5 universe. Same as
> Star Trek did.
I agree 100 %. That is why Crusade was the right way to go. But unlike
"Walker" or "She-Ra", Crusade had the same basic qualities as B5 had. It
told the untold stories from B5. But from time to time, when the old
cast is still available, I would like to see what happenes to Sheridan,
Mollari, Vir, ...
A sequel, from Sheridans point of view, is still possible, too :)
There are some untold stories left until mankind needs to move from
earth :)
> But, as noted in my heretical other reply, I'd rather see something
> entirely new from jms instead.
Well, I am open to hear which JMS-stuff you recommend :)
David Williams
>> And while I appreciate his efforts, TLT #1 was for me a disappointment,
>> and came across as a forced effort.
>
> Well, to me, the only problem was that for the first time ever JMS
> imposed his Christian believes upon us. Being an Atheist, this was hard
> to swallow.
I think you need to spend some more time reviewing your facts.
jms is a professed atheist as well.
(Since you bring it up, so am I.)
Please clarify what "Christian beliefs" you felt were "imposed" on you
through TLT.
Regards,
David W.
David Williams
> PS: What about his screenplays or films? What is actually worth watching
> if you're not "a true fan"?
I am a fan of jms *writing.*
You indicated that you don't care for comics.
Your loss.
Just to pick a couple of examples right off the top of my head, Rising Stars
and Midnight Nation were WELL worth reading.
Regards,
David W.
Jan
Hauke Kruppa
says...
>
>David Williams wrote on 05.02.2008 18:29:
>> WARNING: HERESY ALERT!!!
>>
>>> I would like to see B5 or a spin-off to go live again.
>>
>> I... wouldn't.
>
>Ok. This this your opinion.
>
>> But, I believe jms's talents are too great to allow himself to get
>> stuck in a rut, continuing to try and force out work within this one
>> universe.
>
>OK. I don't like "twilight Zone". I don't like "Spiderman" (or any other
> super-hero comic) and the rest?
>
>- He-Man and the Masters of the Universe - sucks
>- Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors - what is that?
>- Twilight Zone - sucks
>- The Real Ghostbusters - am I 6 years old?
>- Jake und McCabe - What is that?
>- Captain Power - sucks
>- Murder, She Wrote - a series so bad that it hurts
>
With the exception of Spider-man, everything you mention is pre-
Babylon 5. To say that JMS has grown as a writer since would be an
understatement. Although if you can honestly say that you think that
his episodes of 'Twilight Zone' suck, I have to question whether we
can really communicate.
>
>Well, this is not what *I* want. I am not a fan of JMS, I like this
>particular work. I don't watch non-SF-series. In fact, beside B5 I never
>ever found a TV series worth watching, SF or not.
Well that explains your use of 'sucks' for 'I don't care for' above.
And considering yourself a B5 fan rather than a JMS fan 's fairly
common. After experiencing B5, though, don't you think it might be
worthwhile to check out the work he's done since, though?
>
>> He already has, and some of it has been absolutely stunning.
>
>Which one? Do you find "Walker" stunning? :)
I've never managed to catch the (I believe) two episodes JMS wrote of
'Walker'. Have you?
And IMO, 'Jeremiah', particularly the second season, which was almost
entirely JMS, definitely deserves to be called stunning. As does
Midnight Nation, City of Dreams, Dream Police, Delicate Creatures,
Silver Surfer: Requiem, and The Book of Lost Souls to name a few.
>
>But seriously. I just red he wrote some horror-novels. Are they worth
>reading? Given the fact that I don't like Comics or TV-series like
>"Murder, She Wrote" - what did I miss from JMS? Did he make one of the
>series I don't know (see above) by himself?
He didn't make any* of the list you name *by himself*. It wasn't
until B5 when he had creative control. 'Jeremiah' would be next which
isn't on your list.
I'm with David here. Yeah, I'm a B5 fan but I'm also a JMS fan. What
he did with B5 convinced me that anything he chooses to turn his hand
to is at least worth trying. Some I'll absolutely love, others I
won't...but so far he's never wasted my time.
Jan
Jan
says...
>
>PS: What about his screenplays or films? What is actually worth watching
>if you're not "a true fan"?
>
None of the feature films he's been writing have hit the screen yet. "The
Changeling" just finished shooting a couple of months ago.
Jan
--
We see what we look for and we look for what we think we will see.
--jms
Hauke Kruppa
> I think you need to spend some more time reviewing your facts.
> jms is a professed atheist as well.
> (Since you bring it up, so am I.)
Ok, checked it, I stand corrected.
> Please clarify what "Christian beliefs" you felt were "imposed" on you
> through TLT.
Well - there is a god. There is a hell. Creatures live there, imprisoned
on earth. Exorcism therefore actually works on real demons, persons are
possessed, they are not simply a brain case.
And so on. I could live with a comet that brings back the dead for one
night (not JMS idea, IIRC, but some guest director). Or with someone
searching for the holy grail. Or with The One.
But this? If the plot were more open, OK. But this? He once made a point
how many religions we have here. With this becoming part of the canon,
all non-monotheistic religions in the B5-universe on earth have been
proven to be wrong.
I didn't like that. To me it felt near Christian Taliban [tm]
propaganda. I understand that I was wrong. But I still don't like the
idea. At least someone could've hinted that god may be simply a word for
ET :)
Hauke
Hauke
Hauke Kruppa
David Williams wrote on 06.02.2008 09:21:
> I am a fan of jms *writing.*
> You indicated that you don't care for comics.
> Your loss.
> Just to pick a couple of examples right off the top of my head, Rising Stars
> and Midnight Nation were WELL worth reading.
I like reading, though :)
How about novels he wrote? Something worth reading?
Greetings,
Hauke (PS: Not writing "warmest regards" like you did wasn't intended to
be inpolite; being a German this doesn't feel right writing. We would
only write stuff like that to close friends or relatives - talk about
cultural differences :)
David Williams
> How about novels he wrote? Something worth reading?
Haven't read them yet. Limited time. On the to-do list.
> Hauke (PS: Not writing "warmest regards" like you did wasn't intended to
> be inpolite; being a German this doesn't feel right writing. We would only
> write stuff like that to close friends or relatives - talk about cultural
> differences :)
Kein Angst. I always close my posts with "Regards." "Warmest regards" was
simply intended to help soften the tone of my post. You are correct.
Ordinarily it would not be used in this context in English either.
Mit Gruessen,
David W.
Hauke Kruppa
> With the exception of Spider-man, everything you mention is pre-
> Babylon 5. To say that JMS has grown as a writer since would be an
> understatement. Although if you can honestly say that you think that
> his episodes of 'Twilight Zone' suck, I have to question whether we
> can really communicate.
I didn't write that his episodes of "Twilight Zone" suck. I wrote that
these series suck. I usually don't watch a series with hundreds of bad
episodes to find one diamond.
> And considering yourself a B5 fan rather than a JMS fan 's fairly
> common. After experiencing B5, though, don't you think it might be
> worthwhile to check out the work he's done since, though?
But of course! Simply point me to something I am remotely interested in.
- Horror -> hell, yeah, I like that :)
- SF - > give me more
- Black humor
NOT:
- Super Hero Comics
- Mystery (they never ever come to solutions or make any progress)
- Search the murderer - a zillion times
- Chuck Norris :)
- Comedy-series with "nice" humor
> I've never managed to catch the (I believe) two episodes JMS wrote of
> 'Walker'. Have you?
No. Heeellohoo! We're talking about Chuck Norris here. One of the badest
actors that live on this planet. Can't speak for other planets /
universes, though :)
Do you actually intend to watch an untalented imbecile act just because
the screenplay was made by someone as inspired as Shakespeare? I don't.
> And IMO, 'Jeremiah', particularly the second season, which was almost
> entirely JMS, definitely deserves to be called stunning. As does
> Midnight Nation, City of Dreams, Dream Police, Delicate Creatures,
> Silver Surfer: Requiem, and The Book of Lost Souls to name a few.
Jeremiah is mystery, isn't it? Don't like Mystery. I want cause and
effect. And that in the end, most of the questions must have been
answered.
I don't know the other series, though. Which one would you
recommend?
>> But seriously. I just red he wrote some horror-novels. Are they
>> worth reading? Given the fact that I don't like Comics or TV-series
>> like "Murder, She Wrote" - what did I miss from JMS? Did he make
>> one of the series I don't know (see above) by himself?
>
> He didn't make any* of the list you name *by himself*. It wasn't
> until B5 when he had creative control. 'Jeremiah' would be next
> which isn't on your list.
Yeah, didn't know that Jeremiah season 2 was JMS. But wasn't Jeremiah
cancelled in the middle of nothing? I remeber I red something like that
here in Germany.
How about the horror-novels? These sound interesting.
Greetings
Hauke
David Williams
>> Please clarify what "Christian beliefs" you felt were "imposed" on you
>> through TLT.
>
> Well - there is a god. There is a hell. Creatures live there, imprisoned
> on earth. Exorcism therefore actually works on real demons, persons are
> possessed, they are not simply a brain case.
To preface, many have expressed disappointment with the episode. I simply
found it forgettable. But the gist as I remember it was that... whatever
creature had possessed the character, it wanted everyone to *believe* it was
a powerful demon. I don't recall that the ep ever clarified just what the
creature *actually* was.
Digressing for a moment: Vorlons.
In the episode "The Fall of Night" we finally got to SEE a Vorlon, and he
appeared to most of the characters as a major religious figure from their
respective cultures. In our case, as an angel. We later learned that
Vorlons had interfered in Earth's development for ages. The implication
being that many of our legendary stories of angelic encounters *could*
simply have been Vorlons. Not that they WERE, but that they COULD be.
So jms gave us a mundane (potential) explanation for angels, why not demons?
Anyway, that's what I took from the ep.
Even to the non-religious, religion must be recognized as THE most powerful
force that has shaped human society, politics, and culture over the ages. B5
was no less than the story of a key moment for humankind, as we took the
next huge step in our evolution as a race. Pretty heady stuff. Watch B5
through, and you will see religion everywhere. To have left religion out of
the B5 series would have been disingenuous at best.
Regards,
David W.
Chris Patterson
Hauke Kruppa <nosp...@gmx.net> wrote:
> > Please clarify what "Christian beliefs" you felt were "imposed" on you
> > through TLT.
>
> Well - there is a god. There is a hell. Creatures live there, imprisoned
> on earth. Exorcism therefore actually works on real demons, persons are
> possessed, they are not simply a brain case.
*Sigh*... I think we've debated this to death already here, but to
summarize:
The first story in TLT #1 does NOT necessarily confirm the existence of
a God, Hell, or real Biblical demons in the B5 universe. It *did*
confirm that Lochley herself *believes* as such, as well as the priest.
It *may* be that the being that possessed the guy was indeed a real
demon, or it may be that it found it convenient to wrap itself up in the
trappings of that mythology for its own purposes. As usual for JMS, you
are left to ponder where the truth lies.
And Lochley is only the last in a long line of Christian characters that
have appeared throughout B5. So I still don't understand what makes you
take exception this time? Was it that the story was simply too short to
allow development of alternative explanations? In that case, I would
suggest that TLT is intended to be a series of short *character*
studies, and thus the story is about studying *Lochley*, the character,
and how the universe appears through her eyes.
The fact that you can have such a strong reaction to the opinions of a
*fictional character* is, itself, a testament to JMS's writing.
--
=================================================================
Chris Patterson chris dot s dot patterson at gmail dot com
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are
always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of
doubts." -- Bertrand Russell
David Williams
> David Williams wrote on 05.02.2008 18:30:
>
>>> But WB just wants to make money out of us w/o investing it.
>>
>> Economics 101: Who wouldn't? Not that I applaud WB's decisions, I
>> just recognize the realities.
>
> Given. But from a economic point of view, these decisions were and are
> bad. There is a huge demand and they won't deliver,
"Huge demand?"
Not sure that your definition of "huge demand" equates to a studio's
definition of "huge demand."
I hate to break it to you, but sci-fi has always been a niche market. At
least for American television. Financially, even the biggest sci-fi success
stories have had their limitations. And Babylon5, great as it is, in
America is still considered a "cult" show. "Cult" shows do NOT attract
serious investment.
It has been twenty years since I lived in Koeln and watched German
television. So I don't know how it has evolved since. But in America, even
the most popular sci-fi television programs still tread a thin line between
cult status and mainstream audiences.
> cast is still available, I would like to see what happenes to Sheridan,
> Mollari, Vir, ...
Sheridan - lives out the remaining 20 years of his life as head of the new
IA, and as the honorary Ranger 1. Then he dies.
Mollari - becomes emporer, struggles under the iron thumb of the Drakh, then
is killed by G'kar.
Vir - becomes emporer after Mollari's death. Lives the typical debauched
life of a Centauri emporer, and eventually dies
My point is, the CRITICAL events of these characters' lives were in the
original series. From a literary standpoint, the rest is somewhat trivial.
> A sequel, from Sheridans point of view, is still possible, too :)
Not really. Again, from a LITERARY standpoint, the best part of his story
has already been told.
> There are some untold stories left until mankind needs to move from earth
> :)
Agreed. As I said, lots of room for additional stories in this universe.
Good stories. Enjoyable stories. I just feel that jms has other things to
do.
> Well, I am open to hear which JMS-stuff you recommend :)
For starters, try the graphic novel "Midnight Nation."
There are no super-heroes in it. The story does have some fantasty elements
to it, but otherwise it's just a really good story.
Otherwise, you need to ask jms what is next.
Good Luck with that.
He's remarkably tight-lipped.
Regards,
David W.
David Williams
"Chris Patterson" <chris_s_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:chris_s_patterson-4...@news.individual.net...
> The fact that you can have such a strong reaction to the opinions of a
> *fictional character* is, itself, a testament to JMS's writing.
Well said.
David W.
Jan
> Jan wrote on 06.02.2008 13:40:
>
>
> But of course! Simply point me to something I am remotely interested in.
>
> - Horror -> hell, yeah, I like that :)
> - SF - > give me more
> - Black humor
As far as TV is concerned, Jeremiah may suit you. No, it's not a
mystery. The slugline is that it's "a post-apocalyptic series about
hope". It's set 15 years after the 'Big Death' when a virus wiped out
everybody over the age of puberty...and it may be coming back. The
main characters are Jeremiah and Kurdy and there's an arc and they
change and there are actions and consequences and even if this sounds
familiar it's not at all like B5.
As for how it ended...no, there's no concluding episode. JMS knew
that he was going to be leaving the show well in advance, though, so
the season's main thread was tied up mostly satisfactorily although
there was plenty of set-up for a third season if they'd decided to go
that way.
>
> > And IMO, 'Jeremiah', particularly the second season, which was almost
> > entirely JMS, definitely deserves to be called stunning. As does
> > Midnight Nation, City of Dreams, Dream Police, Delicate Creatures,
> > Silver Surfer: Requiem, and The Book of Lost Souls to name a few.
>
> Jeremiah is mystery, isn't it? Don't like Mystery. I want cause and
> effect. And that in the end, most of the questions must have been
> answered.
Nope. See above.
>
> I don't know the other series, though. Which one would you
> recommend?
-Midnight Nation - Comic maxi series.
-City of Dreams - Audio Drama http://www.scifi.com/cityofdreams/
-Dream Police - one-shot comic
-Delicate Creatures - fairy tale - hardcover
-Silver Surfer - Comic miniseries. Definitely a character story that
happens to revolve around a superhero of sorts.
- Book of Lost Souls - Hmmm....not sure how to classify it but it's
really good. Six issues so far and we hope for more.
>
> >> But seriously. I just red he wrote some horror-novels. Are they
> >> worth reading?
I enjoyed both Demon Night and Tribulations. Demon Night was
nominated for a Bram Stoker award. Othersyde never caught my
attention. I think it's the one thing of JMS's I've never finished.
Maybe my head wasn't in the right place at the time.
Jan
Jan
> Jan wrote on 06.02.2008 13:40:
>
>
> But of course! Simply point me to something I am remotely interested in.
>
> - Horror -> hell, yeah, I like that :)
> - SF - > give me more
> - Black humor
As far as TV is concerned, Jeremiah may suit you. No, it's not a
mystery. The slugline is that it's "a post-apocalyptic series about
hope". It's set 15 years after the 'Big Death' when a virus wiped out
everybody over the age of puberty...and it may be coming back. The
main characters are Jeremiah and Kurdy and there's an arc and they
change and there are actions and consequences and even if this sounds
familiar it's not at all like B5.
As for how it ended...no, there's no concluding episode. JMS knew
that he was going to be leaving the show well in advance, though, so
the season's main thread was tied up mostly satisfactorily although
there was plenty of set-up for a third season if they'd decided to go
that way.
>
> > And IMO, 'Jeremiah', particularly the second season, which was almost
> > entirely JMS, definitely deserves to be called stunning. As does
> > Midnight Nation, City of Dreams, Dream Police, Delicate Creatures,
> > Silver Surfer: Requiem, and The Book of Lost Souls to name a few.
>
> Jeremiah is mystery, isn't it? Don't like Mystery. I want cause and
> effect. And that in the end, most of the questions must have been
> answered.
Nope. See above.
>
> I don't know the other series, though. Which one would you
> recommend?
-Midnight Nation - Comic maxi series.
-City of Dreams - Audio Drama http://www.scifi.com/cityofdreams/
-Dream Police - one-shot comic
-Delicate Creatures - fairy tale - hardcover
-Silver Surfer - Comic miniseries. Definitely a character story that
happens to revolve around a superhero of sorts.
- Book of Lost Souls - Hmmm....not sure how to classify it but it's
really good. Six issues so far and we hope for more.
>
> >> But seriously. I just red he wrote some horror-novels. Are they
> >> worth reading?
I enjoyed both Demon Night and Tribulations. Demon Night was
Jan
> Jan wrote on 06.02.2008 13:40:
>
>
> But of course! Simply point me to something I am remotely interested in.
>
> - Horror -> hell, yeah, I like that :)
> - SF - > give me more
> - Black humor
As far as TV is concerned, Jeremiah may suit you. No, it's not a
mystery. The slugline is that it's "a post-apocalyptic series about
hope". It's set 15 years after the 'Big Death' when a virus wiped out
everybody over the age of puberty...and it may be coming back. The
main characters are Jeremiah and Kurdy and there's an arc and they
change and there are actions and consequences and even if this sounds
familiar it's not at all like B5.
As for how it ended...no, there's no concluding episode. JMS knew
that he was going to be leaving the show well in advance, though, so
the season's main thread was tied up mostly satisfactorily although
there was plenty of set-up for a third season if they'd decided to go
that way.
>
> > And IMO, 'Jeremiah', particularly the second season, which was almost
> > entirely JMS, definitely deserves to be called stunning. As does
> > Midnight Nation, City of Dreams, Dream Police, Delicate Creatures,
> > Silver Surfer: Requiem, and The Book of Lost Souls to name a few.
>
> Jeremiah is mystery, isn't it? Don't like Mystery. I want cause and
> effect. And that in the end, most of the questions must have been
> answered.
Nope. See above.
>
> I don't know the other series, though. Which one would you
> recommend?
-Midnight Nation - Comic maxi series.
-City of Dreams - Audio Drama http://www.scifi.com/cityofdreams/
-Dream Police - one-shot comic
-Delicate Creatures - fairy tale - hardcover
-Silver Surfer - Comic miniseries. Definitely a character story that
happens to revolve around a superhero of sorts.
- Book of Lost Souls - Hmmm....not sure how to classify it but it's
really good. Six issues so far and we hope for more.
>
> >> But seriously. I just red he wrote some horror-novels. Are they
> >> worth reading?
I enjoyed both Demon Night and Tribulations. Demon Night was
Jan
> Jan wrote on 06.02.2008 13:40:
>
>
> But of course! Simply point me to something I am remotely interested in.
>
> - Horror -> hell, yeah, I like that :)
> - SF - > give me more
> - Black humor
As far as TV is concerned, Jeremiah may suit you. No, it's not a
mystery. The slugline is that it's "a post-apocalyptic series about
hope". It's set 15 years after the 'Big Death' when a virus wiped out
everybody over the age of puberty...and it may be coming back. The
main characters are Jeremiah and Kurdy and there's an arc and they
change and there are actions and consequences and even if this sounds
familiar it's not at all like B5.
As for how it ended...no, there's no concluding episode. JMS knew
that he was going to be leaving the show well in advance, though, so
the season's main thread was tied up mostly satisfactorily although
there was plenty of set-up for a third season if they'd decided to go
that way.
>
> > And IMO, 'Jeremiah', particularly the second season, which was almost
> > entirely JMS, definitely deserves to be called stunning. As does
> > Midnight Nation, City of Dreams, Dream Police, Delicate Creatures,
> > Silver Surfer: Requiem, and The Book of Lost Souls to name a few.
>
> Jeremiah is mystery, isn't it? Don't like Mystery. I want cause and
> effect. And that in the end, most of the questions must have been
> answered.
Nope. See above.
>
> I don't know the other series, though. Which one would you
> recommend?
-Midnight Nation - Comic maxi series.
-City of Dreams - Audio Drama http://www.scifi.com/cityofdreams/
-Dream Police - one-shot comic
-Delicate Creatures - fairy tale - hardcover
-Silver Surfer - Comic miniseries. Definitely a character story that
happens to revolve around a superhero of sorts.
- Book of Lost Souls - Hmmm....not sure how to classify it but it's
really good. Six issues so far and we hope for more.
>
> >> But seriously. I just red he wrote some horror-novels. Are they
> >> worth reading?
I enjoyed both Demon Night and Tribulations. Demon Night was
Dave Hayslett
...
I'm sorry, could you repeat that? >:-)
<g,d,r>
--
Dave (2/6/2008 3:31:31 PM)
I'm not a smart man. But I know what love is.
Jan
Dave Hayslett wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 11:52:15 -0800 (PST), Jan wrote:
>
> ...
>
> I'm sorry, could you repeat that? >:-)
>
> <g,d,r>
>
<blush> Sorry, I was sure it wouldn't go through even *once* since we
had a power flicker just as I hit 'send'. Oops.
Jan
Dave Hayslett
As someone who's occasionally posted the same thing 7 or 8 times ... I
sympathize (even as I tease, mwah hah hah)
--
Dave (2/6/2008 3:58:49 PM)
A man is just a sum of what he loves.
John W. Kennedy
Zoroastrian world model than to a Christian.
--
John W. Kennedy
"Though a Rothschild you may be
In your own capacity,
As a Company you've come to utter sorrow--
But the Liquidators say,
'Never mind--you needn't pay,'
So you start another company to-morrow!"
-- Sir William S. Gilbert. "Utopia Limited"
Wes Struebing
wrote:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You were just trying to make a point!
;-)
--
Wes Struebing
Jan. 20, 2009 - the end of an error
Amy Guskin
(in article <1aoorxq8voe5a$.d...@hayslett.sc.rr.com>):
> On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 12:47:22 -0800 (PST), Jan wrote:
>
>> Dave Hayslett wrote:
>>> On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 11:52:15 -0800 (PST), Jan wrote:
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>> I'm sorry, could you repeat that? >:-)
>>>
>>> <g,d,r>
>>>
>>
>> <blush> Sorry, I was sure it wouldn't go through even *once* since we
>> had a power flicker just as I hit 'send'. Oops.
>>
>> Jan
>
> As someone who's occasionally posted the same thing 7 or 8 times ... I
> sympathize (even as I tease, mwah hah hah) <<
Yeah, four times was _good_, but it certainly wasn't a _record_ or anything.
:-)
Amy (extremely nauseous, having just returned from seeing "Cloverfield")
--
"In my line of work you gotta keep repeating things over and over and over
again for the truth to sink in, to kinda catapult the propaganda." - George
W. Bush, May 24, 2005
David Williams
"Jan" <janmsc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:7dbb9470-5315-4aa1...@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com...
> As far as TV is concerned, Jeremiah may suit you. No, it's not a
> mystery. The slugline is that it's "a post-apocalyptic series about
> hope".
Isn't that like "the story of the end of the world, and the happy-go-lucky
days that followed?"
David W.
Rob Perkins
> Hauke (PS: Not writing "warmest regards" like you did wasn't intended to
> be inpolite; being a German this doesn't feel right writing. We would
> only write stuff like that to close friends or relatives - talk about
> cultural differences :)
Want to?
In English, "warmest regards" is akin to "mit freundlichen Gruessen,"
which in my long experience is what comes at the end of a letter
informing you you have received a work permit, since forms of that are
what I found on letters from places like the Berner Arbeitsamt, back
in the day when I used to apply for work permits for people.
It is a sign of simple politeness, something as distant as saying,
"Mein Herr, Sie haben etwas schmutziges auf dem Gesicht bleiben
lassen," upon seeing a bit of Ritter-Sport melted on someone's lip.
Well, maybe not *that*, since my impression of Germans is that they
would simply pretend nothing is marring another's face, unless it is
appropriate to say "Du," but as Londo would say, "There you are."
Rob, proud owner of Langenscheit's "1000 Deutsche Redensarten"
Gregory Weston
<9f942bfd-bcea-49e1...@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
Jan <janmsc...@aol.com> wrote:
> Hauke Kruppa wrote:
> > Jan wrote on 06.02.2008 13:40:
> >
> >
> > But of course! Simply point me to something I am remotely interested in.
> >
> > - Horror -> hell, yeah, I like that :)
> > - SF - > give me more
> > - Black humor
>
> As far as TV is concerned, Jeremiah may suit you.
But where can you find season 2?
G
Amy Guskin
(in article
<7dbb9470-5315-4aa1...@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com>):
> Hauke Kruppa wrote:
>> Jan wrote on 06.02.2008 13:40:
>>
>>
>> But of course! Simply point me to something I am remotely interested in.
>>
>> - Horror -> hell, yeah, I like that :)
>> - SF - > give me more
>> - Black humor
>
> As far as TV is concerned, Jeremiah may suit you. No, it's not a
> mystery. The slugline is that it's "a post-apocalyptic series about
> hope". <<
Well, it's been a bit of a while since I've nitpicked, so...
I think you mean "log line." A "slug line" is something that appears many
times in scripts, any time the scene changes location or time, like:
INT. SMITH'S DORM ROOM NIGHT
meaning that the action is now taking place in an interior, as described.
The "log line" is the short description of the overall show or movie.
Amy
Amy Guskin
(in article
<c1bb253d-258a-4c46...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>):
> On Feb 6, 6:01 am, Hauke Kruppa <nospam...@gmx.net> wrote:
>
>> Hauke (PS: Not writing "warmest regards" like you did wasn't intended to
>> be inpolite; being a German this doesn't feel right writing. We would
>> only write stuff like that to close friends or relatives - talk about
>> cultural differences :)
>
> Want to?
>
> In English, "warmest regards" is akin to "mit freundlichen Gruessen,"
> which in my long experience is what comes at the end of a letter
> informing you you have received a work permit, since forms of that are
> what I found on letters from places like the Berner Arbeitsamt, back
> in the day when I used to apply for work permits for people. <<
I thought that was more like "with kind regards" or "sincerely yours." When
I was communicating with my company's office in Mainz several times a day,
that's the way memos were generally closed, even by the people there who
didn't know me that well. Sometimes I'd get a "mit bestem Respekt" from the
people with whom I'd been communicating for many years, and who knew me on
more of a first-name basis.
Jerry Heyman
wrote:
>
> "Hauke Kruppa" <nosp...@gmx.net> wrote in message
> news:47A96112...@gmx.net...
>> David Williams wrote on 05.02.2008 18:30:
>>
>
[ ... Lots of stuff deleted ... ]
>> There are some untold stories left until mankind needs to move from earth
>> :)
>
> Agreed. As I said, lots of room for additional stories in this universe.
> Good stories. Enjoyable stories. I just feel that jms has other things
> to do.
>
>> Well, I am open to hear which JMS-stuff you recommend :)
>
> For starters, try the graphic novel "Midnight Nation."
> There are no super-heroes in it. The story does have some fantasty
> elements to it, but otherwise it's just a really good story.
I would recommend "Jeremiah" - the first season is available on
DVD, haven't seen the second season released yet.
An interesting twist on the 'post apocalypse' genre
>
> Otherwise, you need to ask jms what is next.
> Good Luck with that.
> He's remarkably tight-lipped.
>
> Regards,
> David W.
jerry
--
// Jerry Heyman | "Software is the difference between
// Amiga Forever :-) | hardware and reality"
\\ // hey...@acm.org |
\X/ http://www.hobbeshollow.com
T.Milke
wrote:
> Hi,
I'm not much of a comics person either. People say I'm missing out on
great stories. I say "that's my choice".
There are three novels that I know of. Demon Night, Othersyde, and
Tribulations. It's been a while since I've read any of them, so the
memory may be faded a bit.
Demon Night was very good. Guy gets hounded by some supernatural thing
throughout his life, and finally decides to stop running. I do recall
some interesting dialogue between a priest and a demon. So, if
religious themes aren't your thing, you may want to skip this. (it was
the best novel of the 3).
Othersyde: It started out as a standard "kid gets supernatural powers"
story. Don't recall much more than that. I'd give that the lowest
grade from the 3 novels.
Tribulations: Something of a murder mystery, with everyone thinking
that the main character was either a nutcase, or the real murderer.
After all the build up throughout the novel, the ending didn't really
satisfy. I won't specify since that would be spoilery.
-T.Milke
Dave Hayslett
...
> I think you mean "log line." A "slug line" is something that appears many
> times in scripts, any time the scene changes location or time, like:
I'm glad you cleared that up - I was trying to imagine how a dancing slug
would put its arms on the adjacent slugs' shoulder, and if they could kick
their little slug legs like the Rockettes, and ... well, you can see how
that all went wrong.
--
Dave (2/7/2008 10:23:24 AM)
I like to go swimmin'
with bow-legged women
and swim between their legs
Amy Guskin
(in article <1nf8bat9...@hayslett.sc.rr.com>):
> On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 14:19:34 GMT, Amy Guskin wrote:
>
> ...
>
>> I think you mean "log line." A "slug line" is something that appears many
>> times in scripts, any time the scene changes location or time, like:
>
> I'm glad you cleared that up - I was trying to imagine how a dancing slug
> would put its arms on the adjacent slugs' shoulder, and if they could kick
> their little slug legs like the Rockettes, and ... well, you can see how
> that all went wrong. <<
Today's "Disturbing Image of the Day" was brought to you by
rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated, Dave Hayslett, Jan Schroeder, the
Corporation for Public Broadcasting, and viewers like you.
Ranger Elenopa
>
> There are three novels that I know of. Demon Night, Othersyde, and
> Tribulations. It's been a while since I've read any of them, so the
> memory may be faded a bit.
>
> Demon Night was very good. Guy gets hounded by some supernatural thing
> throughout his life, and finally decides to stop running. I do recall
> some interesting dialogue between a priest and a demon. So, if
> religious themes aren't your thing, you may want to skip this. (it was
> the best novel of the 3).
>
> Othersyde: It started out as a standard "kid gets supernatural powers"
> story. Don't recall much more than that. I'd give that the lowest
> grade from the 3 novels.
>
> Tribulations: Something of a murder mystery, with everyone thinking
> that the main character was either a nutcase, or the real murderer.
> After all the build up throughout the novel, the ending didn't really
> satisfy. I won't specify since that would be spoilery.
>
I haven't read Tribulations, but picked the other two up off Ebay.
I actually preferred Othersyde to Demon Night, although I did have flu
when I read Demon Night so that might make a difference.
Othersyde does have the famous mention of this Babylon 5 TV show that
one of the characters watches.
Ranger Elenopa
Matt Ion
> I'm not much of a comics person either. People say I'm missing out on
> great stories. I say "that's my choice".
I think it's unfortunate that some people will dismiss a story simply
because it's presented in a printed graphic format, as opposed to "only"
words, or moving pictures. A good story is a good story regardless of
how the author prefers to make it available.
Jan
says...
You still can't get it on DVD but it *is* available for streaming via Netflix.
Jan
--
We see what we look for and we look for what we think we will see.
--jms
Wes Struebing
wrote:
>>> On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 16:00:13 -0500, Dave Hayslett wrote
>(in article <1aoorxq8voe5a$.d...@hayslett.sc.rr.com>):
>
>> On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 12:47:22 -0800 (PST), Jan wrote:
>>
>>> Dave Hayslett wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 11:52:15 -0800 (PST), Jan wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> I'm sorry, could you repeat that? >:-)
>>>>
>>>> <g,d,r>
>>>>
>>>
>>> <blush> Sorry, I was sure it wouldn't go through even *once* since we
>>> had a power flicker just as I hit 'send'. Oops.
>>>
>>> Jan
>>
>> As someone who's occasionally posted the same thing 7 or 8 times ... I
>> sympathize (even as I tease, mwah hah hah) <<
>
>Yeah, four times was _good_, but it certainly wasn't a _record_ or anything.
>:-)
>
>Amy (extremely nauseous, having just returned from seeing "Cloverfield")
Is it *really* that bad, Amy? I've heard that people are getting sick
in the theater, but that seems a bit extreme...
(sorry for your queasy stomach)
Wes Struebing
wrote:
>>> On Thu, 7 Feb 2008 02:37:21 -0500, Rob Perkins wrote
>(in article
><c1bb253d-258a-4c46...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>):
>
>> On Feb 6, 6:01 am, Hauke Kruppa <nospam...@gmx.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hauke (PS: Not writing "warmest regards" like you did wasn't intended to
>>> be inpolite; being a German this doesn't feel right writing. We would
>>> only write stuff like that to close friends or relatives - talk about
>>> cultural differences :)
>>
>> Want to?
>>
>> In English, "warmest regards" is akin to "mit freundlichen Gruessen,"
>> which in my long experience is what comes at the end of a letter
>> informing you you have received a work permit, since forms of that are
>> what I found on letters from places like the Berner Arbeitsamt, back
>> in the day when I used to apply for work permits for people. <<
>
>I thought that was more like "with kind regards" or "sincerely yours." When
>I was communicating with my company's office in Mainz several times a day,
>that's the way memos were generally closed, even by the people there who
>didn't know me that well. Sometimes I'd get a "mit bestem Respekt" from the
>people with whom I'd been communicating for many years, and who knew me on
>more of a first-name basis.
>
Interesting. Now, we communicate at work with Great Britain,
Australia, and Lugano, Switzerland.
Our polite closing is supposed to be "Best regards"...
Amy Guskin
(in article <klcnq3lc80chtp05q...@4ax.com>):
Yes, it is that bad. I not a person who gets motion sickness -- I grew up
sailing! -- and I seriously could not stay in the theater. I spent ten to
fifteen minutes out in the lobby getting a diet Coke to settle my stomach,
and to give my eyes a break. Now, if there was a good story behind all of
that cinema-verite flash, I might be more forgiving of the nausea-inducing
handheld cam style. But seriously, that's all this movie has: the novelty of
the filming style. It wasn't even a really good monster movie, at the heart
of it (mainly, IMHO, because the characters weren't 'rootable' -- they were
just vanilla, cardboard...just blah).
I'd be interested to hear others' opinions, if anyone else here saw it.
And, I am well sick and tired of trusting JJ Abrams to entertain me!!! At
the very end of the credits there's a little blip of dialogue, possibly
backwards, that's supposed to have some sort of deep meaning that I can find
out if only I play the online viral marketing scheme game and watch fifteen
f-in' YouTube videos and get all the clues and put them in the right order,
using a series of numbers from "Lost" or "Alias" or Slush-O commercials, or
something. Seriously, JJ Abrams has worn out my last nerve! Grrrrr!!!
Amy
Amy Guskin
(in article <crcnq31im57nappee...@4ax.com>):
Yeah, that's "mit bestem Respekt." We used to use "kind regards" or "best
regards," depending how much we actually liked the recipient.
David Williams
"Amy Guskin" <ais...@fjordstone.com> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C3D12340...@news.verizon.net...
> We used to use "kind regards" or "best
> regards," depending how much we actually liked the recipient.
Personally, I like "F**kin' Regards"
But for some strange reason, people always seem to take it wrong...
Sorry. Cold, tedious Chicago winter. LONG driveway, and no snowblower.
Just got done digging my way out of another 10" of wet snow and found myself
craving some "Deadwood."
Friggin' Regards,
David W.
Amy Guskin
(in article <XoOdnR0tw8dyQjba...@comcast.com>):
Well, at least you still _get_ snow. I've needed to replace our snow shovel
for a couple of winters now, but we've haven't had a snowfall of any
proportion in so many years, that it's just never gotten to the top of the
"must buy!" list. Sigh, I miss snow!
Gregory Weston
wrote:
> In article <uce-6CF7DF.0...@comcast.dca.giganews.com>, Gregory
> Weston says...
> >
> >In article
> ><9f942bfd-bcea-49e1...@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
> > Jan <janmsc...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> As far as TV is concerned, Jeremiah may suit you.
> >
> >
> >But where can you find season 2?
>
> You still can't get it on DVD but it *is* available for streaming via
> Netflix.
Ah. Not for me, unfortunately, but thanks for the info.
Rob Perkins
> > In English, "warmest regards" is akin to "mit freundlichen Gruessen,"
> > which in my long experience is what comes at the end of a letter
> > informing you you have received a work permit, since forms of that are
> > what I found on letters from places like the Berner Arbeitsamt, back
> > in the day when I used to apply for work permits for people. <<
>
> I thought that was more like "with kind regards" or "sincerely yours."
I mean to say by this that an English speaker (perhaps more
specifically, an American English speaker) will interpret no greater
personal intimacy from a letter closing like "warmest regards," aside
from perhaps an additional politeness. I'm fully aware that a German
speaker won't use words of intimacy until there is great personal
feeling involved, though even that was eroding among young people when
I lived there.
What I'm pointing up is what an English speaker will *mean* by
"warmest regards", not what a German speaker means if he returns
exactly those words. More or less, what I've said is consistent with
David's explanation, I think.
And truthfully, I didn't kenn Hauke's nativity until (he?/she? I can't
tell from just the name) pointed it out. So that's rockin' good
English all by itself.
Rob
Bill
> Yes, it is that bad. I not a person who gets motion sickness -- I grew up
> sailing! -- and I seriously could not stay in the theater. I spent ten to
> fifteen minutes out in the lobby getting a diet Coke to settle my stomach,
> and to give my eyes a break. Now, if there was a good story behind all of
> that cinema-verite flash, I might be more forgiving of the nausea-inducing
> handheld cam style. But seriously, that's all this movie has: the novelty of
> the filming style. It wasn't even a really good monster movie, at the heart
> of it (mainly, IMHO, because the characters weren't 'rootable' -- they were
> just vanilla, cardboard...just blah).
>
> I'd be interested to hear others' opinions, if anyone else here saw it.
I saw it, too, and didn't get nearly as motion-sick as I thought I
would. But I agree with you otherwise that the mashup of Godzilla and
The Blair Witch Project wasn't nearly as "groundbreaking" or unique as
the ad campaign leads you to believe.
Bill
Gregory Weston
Amy Guskin <ais...@fjordstone.com> wrote:
> Yes, it is that bad. I not a person who gets motion sickness -- I grew up
> sailing! -- and I seriously could not stay in the theater. I spent ten to
> fifteen minutes out in the lobby getting a diet Coke to settle my stomach,
> and to give my eyes a break. Now, if there was a good story behind all of
> that cinema-verite flash, I might be more forgiving of the nausea-inducing
> handheld cam style. But seriously, that's all this movie has: the novelty of
> the filming style. It wasn't even a really good monster movie, at the heart
> of it (mainly, IMHO, because the characters weren't 'rootable' -- they were
> just vanilla, cardboard...just blah).
>
> I'd be interested to hear others' opinions, if anyone else here saw it.
Saw it. Regretted it. It only induced the barest touch of queasiness,
but I was bored out of my skull. Kept waiting for a plot, had to settle
for a premise.
It was like a documentary, but without the educational value.
G
Dennis (Icarus)
> David Williams wrote on 06.02.2008 09:19:
>
<snip>
>
> And so on. I could live with a comet that brings back the dead for one
> night (not JMS idea, IIRC, but some guest director). Or with someone
> searching for the holy grail. Or with The One.
Neil Gaiman wrote "Day of the Dead".
<snip>
Dennis
.
Dennis (Icarus)
news:47AA2DE1...@attglobal.net...
> One might add that the creature in TLT is somewhat friendlier to a
> Zoroastrian world model than to a Christian.
What about Scientology? ;-)
Dennis
.
John W. Kennedy
> What about Scientology? ;-)
Scientology is really too muddle-headed to relate to the question one
way or the other. Apart from a pseudo-scientific theory of something
somewhat resembling, but not really equivalent to, reincarnation,
Scientology has almost no philosophical overlap with real religions at
all. (In principle, Scientology and Christianity, or Judaism, or Islam,
or Zoroastrianism, or Hinduism, or Buddhism, or Sikhism, or Shinto, or
Wicca -- or classical paganism, for that matter -- could be
simultaneously true. Even Scientology and Atheism could. Scientology
does have a certain resemblance to Gnosticism -- fair enough, really;
"Sci-" and "Gno-" are Latin and Greek synonyms -- but, again, their
actual dogmata are mutually orthogonal.)
--
John W. Kennedy
"Give up vows and dogmas, and fixed things, and you may grow like That.
...you may come to think a blow bad, because it hurts, and not because
it humiliates. You may come to think murder wrong, because it is
violent, and not because it is unjust."
-- G. K. Chesterton. "The Ball and the Cross"
Matt Ion
> craving some "Deadwood."
They make a little blue pill for that now...
Matt Ion
> Well, at least you still _get_ snow. I've needed to replace our snow shovel
> for a couple of winters now, but we've haven't had a snowfall of any
> proportion in so many years, that it's just never gotten to the top of the
> "must buy!" list. Sigh, I miss snow!
I've been really missing the snow the last few years too... we had lots
of it in the 'burbs of Vancouver as a child, then LOTS MORE through my
adolescent years in the BC Interior, a couple hundred miles north... and
lately around here it's just been rain, rain, rain in the winters...
maybe a little short-lived wet snow, maybe a couple days of frost...
This year has been magnificent. Several large dumps of snow that have
lasted for days, over a week straight of temps well below freezing... I
love it! If this is global warming, I say, bring it on!
Daniel Forrest
> Well, at least you still _get_ snow. I've needed to replace our
> snow shovel for a couple of winters now, but we've haven't had a
> snowfall of any proportion in so many years, that it's just never
> gotten to the top of the "must buy!" list. Sigh, I miss snow!
Come to beautiful Madison, WI with over 60" of snow so far this year.
A wonderful low of -9F scheduled for tonight with wind chills of -25F
to -35F, and a high of 1F tomorrow.
Here's my driveway, the bottom two pictures are from this week (the
snow line in the left picture is 14" to 15" at the garage door):
http://www.lmcg.wisc.edu/~forrest/cellphone/driveway.html
It's a little deceptive because there was a good deal of melting
before I got around to taking the second picture (~3 days).
--
Dan
Shabaz
> Yes, it is that bad. I not a person who gets motion sickness -- I grew up
> sailing! -- and I seriously could not stay in the theater. I spent ten to
> fifteen minutes out in the lobby getting a diet Coke to settle my stomach,
> and to give my eyes a break. Now, if there was a good story behind all of
> that cinema-verite flash, I might be more forgiving of the nausea-inducing
> handheld cam style. But seriously, that's all this movie has: the novelty of
> the filming style. It wasn't even a really good monster movie, at the heart
> of it (mainly, IMHO, because the characters weren't 'rootable' -- they were
> just vanilla, cardboard...just blah).
>
> I'd be interested to hear others' opinions, if anyone else here saw it.
I went to see it on Friday. Pretty much loved it. Though not suffering
from cinematic motion sickness or vertigo while watching it probably
helped. (The only time I ever had that problem was when I went to see
a IMAX movie on one of those gigantic dome screens as a kid, which
gave me a decent bit of vertigo.)
I do think it's one of those films that has to click for you. It
definitely hinges on a gimmick, but said gimmick goes a tad beyond the
camera style being shaky and ostensibly being done by one of the
characters. The gimmick allowed them to not have the usual omniscient
storyteller point of view in the narrative, and instead the audience
kind of gets to piece together the broader narrative involving the
monster attack from bits and pieces, same as the characters. That is
something that quite appealed to me.
And the movie style invokes a kind of... experience I guess, but in a
way that felt smarter, more engaging, and more exciting to me than the
typical 'check your brain in at the door' giant explosion blockbuster.
I really enjoyed it.
> And, I am well sick and tired of trusting JJ Abrams to entertain me!!! At
> the very end of the credits there's a little blip of dialogue, possibly
> backwards, that's supposed to have some sort of deep meaning that I can find
> out if only I play the online viral marketing scheme game and watch fifteen
> f-in' YouTube videos and get all the clues and put them in the right order,
> using a series of numbers from "Lost" or "Alias" or Slush-O commercials, or
> something. Seriously, JJ Abrams has worn out my last nerve! Grrrrr!!!
>
> Amy
> --
> "In my line of work you gotta keep repeating things over and over and over
> again for the truth to sink in, to kinda catapult the propaganda." - George
> W. Bush, May 24, 2005
The meaning of the audio clip was pretty straightforward, I thought.
And from what I know of the ARG, most of that is stuff leading up to
the Cloverfield incident (though I haven't been following it super
closely). I think it's reasonable to assume the clip is about the
status after "Hammer Down". For reference, the clip (possible spoiler,
I suppose): http://boomp3.com/m/bd034dfca370
But then, I find the idea of ARGs in general quite appealing, where I
seem to remember you don't.
-Shabaz
Amy Guskin
(in article <6ay79ug...@yoda.lmcg.wisc.edu>):
Now, that? _That_ is what winter is supposed to look like. Enjoy it while
you can, fair Wisconsonite. For thanks to global warming, soon you may be
facing winters like we have here -- where you are WISHING for snow! :-(
Seriously, thanks for the climatic memory, Dan. <g>
Amy Guskin
(in article
<d0801d1b-4ecc-4da0...@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>):
>> And the movie style invokes a kind of... experience I guess, but in a
> way that felt smarter, more engaging, and more exciting to me than the
> typical 'check your brain in at the door' giant explosion blockbuster.
> I really enjoyed it. <<
Wow. Smarter? I didn't get that at all. And I suppose this is the cultural
divide rearing its head. You're under thirty, right? Maybe even under
twenty-five? My understanding is that this film was practically designed to
appeal to people around that age range. I usually scoff at such delineation,
because I tend to like and do all sorts of things that other people my age
don't like or do. But this may be one case where I have to throw up my hands
and say, "Kids these days!"
But seriously, what made it "smarter" for you? It certainly was not the
actions of the protagonists. They made as many dumb film-cliche errors as
the heel-wearing, cemetery-dashing teens of the 50s and 60s, and as the
summer-camp sex-having teens of the 70s and 80s. The film did leave more
open to interpretation, but that doesn't make it smarter: just more vague.
I'm really interested to hear from you on this because I generally find your
posts cogent and interesting, and intelligently expressed. But I got the
absolute opposite impression of this film than you did!
>>> And, I am well sick and tired of trusting JJ Abrams to entertain me!!! At
>> the very end of the credits there's a little blip of dialogue, possibly
>> backwards, that's supposed to have some sort of deep meaning that I can find
>> out if only I play the online viral marketing scheme game and watch fifteen
>> f-in' YouTube videos and get all the clues and put them in the right order,
>> using a series of numbers from "Lost" or "Alias" or Slush-O commercials, or
>> something. Seriously, JJ Abrams has worn out my last nerve! Grrrrr!!!
>>
>
> The meaning of the audio clip was pretty straightforward, I thought. <<
I was just being flip. I mean, how many people besides me stay to the
_bitter end_ of every movie, until the lights come up? So, putting that
important bit of information there was a cheat, like so much of what JJ does.
It might as _well_ have been an incomprehensible string of numbers scattered
throughout the film.
>> And from what I know of the ARG, most of that is stuff leading up to
> the Cloverfield incident (though I haven't been following it super
> closely). I think it's reasonable to assume the clip is about the
> status after "Hammer Down". For reference, the clip (possible spoiler,
> I suppose): http://boomp3.com/m/bd034dfca370
>
> But then, I find the idea of ARGs in general quite appealing, where I
> seem to remember you don't. <<
Righty-o. I want my film to be entirely contained in the film that I see in
the theater (or on the DVD, as the case may be). I would hate if they
started selling books that you couldn't fully experience without also having
a particular video game platform, going to a particular website with a
particular coded password, and eating a particular cereal.
Daniel Forrest
> Now, that? _That_ is what winter is supposed to look like. Enjoy
> it while you can, fair Wisconsonite. For thanks to global warming,
> soon you may be facing winters like we have here -- where you are
> WISHING for snow! :-(
If you say so, but it's -9F tonight again and 3" to 5" more snow
tomorrow and I'm getting seriously tired of it all.
--
Dan
Shabaz
> >> On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 15:20:38 -0500, Shabaz wrote
>
> (in article
>
> >> And the movie style invokes a kind of... experience I guess, but in a
> > way that felt smarter, more engaging, and more exciting to me than the
> > typical 'check your brain in at the door' giant explosion blockbuster.
> > I really enjoyed it. <<
>
> Wow. Smarter? I didn't get that at all. And I suppose this is the cultural
> divide rearing its head. You're under thirty, right? Maybe even under
> twenty-five? My understanding is that this film was practically designed to
> appeal to people around that age range. I usually scoff at such delineation,
> because I tend to like and do all sorts of things that other people my age
> don't like or do. But this may be one case where I have to throw up my hands
> and say, "Kids these days!"
>
> But seriously, what made it "smarter" for you? It certainly was not the
> actions of the protagonists. They made as many dumb film-cliche errors as
> the heel-wearing, cemetery-dashing teens of the 50s and 60s, and as the
> summer-camp sex-having teens of the 70s and 80s. The film did leave more
> open to interpretation, but that doesn't make it smarter: just more vague.
>
> I'm really interested to hear from you on this because I generally find your
> posts cogent and interesting, and intelligently expressed. But I got the
> absolute opposite impression of this film than you did!
Haha. Believe it or not, I actually typed "smarter" and then right
after I typed it I briefly debated with myself if I should remove it,
since it might not be accurately expressing what I was thinking. I'm
not saying Cloverfield was a particularly cerebral movie, since it
wasn't. Just that it was a movie aiming to create more of an
experience, but in a way that felt smarter to me than, say, a typical
Michael Bay big budget summer blockbuster that also tries to go for
experience over narrative. I'll disagree with you that the vagueness
is some sort of shortcoming though. It is the entire point of the
movie's format, and is what makes it work for those of us that it did
work for, I feel. More information would've decreased to movie's
effectiveness, at least for me.
And you got me exactly right; I'm 23. Though I've heard a lot of
people go on about how this is the movie for the youtube generation
and things like that, which I'm kind of skeptical about too. Though I
suppose it does appeal to modern day ubiquitousness of video recording
devices and people documenting their own lives. And the whole cinema
verite thing as it is used here does depend on the framing format
being reasonably close to the day-to-day reality of the audience to be
truly effective, I suppose.
I suppose the movie had a "this is not a movie" type of aesthetic,
kind of like the "this is not a game" mantra of ARGs, that I found
appealing. Don't know if that is purely something to do with age. I
actually also did like Blairwitch Project, which worked for me and I
actually found more effective for me than I was expecting. But it is
another movie that has to 'click' for you, and if it doesn't, it
doesn't, and you might end up really disliking it instead.
On the flipside, there are things you can do in a well executed ARG
that are much harder to achieve in other media. There are cases where
you aren't getting _most_ of the story if you don't play the ARG, like
for instance the Year Zero ARG (based around a Nine Inch Nails concept
album), but I wouldn't have had it any other way. Since the things
they did wouldn't have worked nearly as well without the ARG trappings
(a lot of the dystopian future ideas used are actually pretty cliche,
but the execution is totally what makes it work). And it was done by
the 42 Entertainment people, so it made full use of said trappings.
Some of the 42 Entertainment folks were actually in Amsterdam last
year, at this tech conference I also happened to be at. Kind of regret
not going to see them. Technically, I might not have been granted
access to their sessions, but I think I could've managed to sneak
in. :) They're behind most of the better regarded ARGs, and they do
some absolutely amazing, fascinating things with them.
-Shabaz
DevilsPGD
<for...@lmcg.wisc.edu> wrote:
>If you say so, but it's -9F tonight again and 3" to 5" more snow
>tomorrow and I'm getting seriously tired of it all.
Where is global warming when you need it?
Josh Hill
<cameron...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Actually i think the odds might not be as bad as you think but a few
>things need to happen first.
>
>When a new Babylon 5 show goes into production they will need to make
>new SFX that are in HD. I think TLT might have already started this
>process. Now if we ever get a full series or movie a lot of new SFX
>will need to be created.
>
>At that time it might be financially feasible to create a new HD box
>set for the older B5's productions all in HD.
There would seem to be a good synergy here, in that the effects for
re-releases could be used to enrich future Lost Tales episodes.
--
Josh
"My name is not Strangelove. I don't know about Strangelove. I'm not
interested in Strangelove. What else can I say? . . . Look, say it
three times more, and I throw you out of this office."
--Edward Teller
Josh Hill
<jdem...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>For one thing, not every series is going to
>see enough of an *obvious* improvement to really benefit from the hi-
>def treatment. (I'm sure "I Love Lucy" would look great in HD, just
>as "Casablanca" does. But most casual move-watchers wouldn't be able
>to tell the difference between an SD DVD of "Casablanca" scaled up to
>1080p on an HD set and a genuine 1080p Blu Ray or HD-DVD copy.)
I read a few days ago that 25% (IIRC) of HDTV owners are watching low
def material on their new sets in the mistaken belief that it's high
def. But that, I think, will change as peoples' eyes become educated.
I can say on the basis of personal experience that once one gets used
to 720P, DVD's look jarringly fuzzy on a large screen. 480 lines * .75
= 360 active lines, which is marginal even in a progressive display. I
don't know what percentage of viewers are sitting close enough to
their HD sets to see the difference, but with screens getting larger
that percentage will undoubtedly increase.
I suspect too that the sort of person who would buy a high def B5
reissue is the sort of person who's an early adopter of new
technology, and so savvier than average about technical standards.
>And
>still fewer are going to be improved enough to tempt fans who probably
>already own the SD versions of the series to "double dip". It is
>expensive enough buying multiple copies of films (I've lost track of
>how many copies of the original "Star Wars" trilogy I've owned on VHS,
>LD, and DVD) but with 5 and 6 disc TV seasons it is insane. CBS Home
>Video is currently toying with the idea of releasing season one of
>"CSI", another SFX-heavy show. The first season was only released in
>4:3 and with few extras on SD-DVD, while the later seasons were all
>16:9 widescreen and included numerous audio commentaries as well as
>more documentaries and interviews, so re-issuing it on HD-DVD in a
>"special edition" would give fans an extra incentive to buy it.
>
>OTOH the widely-predicted demise of HD-DVD, the result of WB's
>defection to Blu Ray, might put a kink in CBS's plans. They release
>their DVDs through Paramount, and Paramount is one of the few studios
>that releases exclusively in HD-DVD and doesn't do Blu Ray.
The incipient end of HD-DVD, the declining prices of Blu Ray players,
and the ubiquity of high resolution digital TV's in stores will, I
tend to think, mean fairly rapid adoption, particularly among the
aficionados who are likely to buy a boxed set. And the success of the
B5 and TLT DVD's, as well as the "cult" nature of B5 (read: good
enough so that people will actually go out of their way to watch it
again), leads me to suspect that there would be enough demand to
justify the expense of the CGI. There's also a potential synergy
between new effects for a re-release and potential future TLT
releases.
Of course, I don't have real numbers, and it could be that I'm being
overly optimistic, but the real question seems to me not if but when
this will be a profitable venture. As high definition and Blu Ray
become the norm, the potential market will approach that of today's
DVD sales, but in the meantime, there could potentially be some
benefit in catching the rising crest of the new adoption wave -- the
period during which those who have purchased the new equipment are
looking for new material to experiment with and during which there are
relatively few competing high definition releases. The early sales
might not be sufficient to repay the new investment immediately, but
in the long run total sales might be higher than if the studio took a
more conservative approach and waited for higher penetration. And the
studio wouldn't have to reissue every show at once -- they could do a
single season and watch the sales.
Chris Patterson
Josh Hill <usere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I read a few days ago that 25% (IIRC) of HDTV owners are watching low
> def material on their new sets in the mistaken belief that it's high
> def.
I can personally vouch for this based on my own experience. My in-laws
bought a plasma TV and pay for DirecTV HD channels, and *every time* we
go over to their house, I notice they are watching the SD channel
instead of the equivalent HD channel, so I change the channel for them.
They always notice the difference once I point it out, but aren't savvy
enough to figure out how to "get there" themselves.
--
=================================================================
Chris Patterson chris dot s dot patterson at gmail dot com
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are
always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of
doubts." -- Bertrand Russell
Brian Harvey
>I can personally vouch for this based on my own experience. My in-laws
>bought a plasma TV and pay for DirecTV HD channels, and *every time* we
>go over to their house, I notice they are watching the SD channel
>instead of the equivalent HD channel, so I change the channel for them.
>They always notice the difference once I point it out, but aren't savvy
>enough to figure out how to "get there" themselves.
I would blame the user interface design instead of your relatives. Why does
the TV even offer them the option of the low-res channels, given that they
subscribe to HD service, if there is an HD version of the same channel
available?
Josh Hill
<chris_s_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>In article <9msdr3d036bckned5...@4ax.com>,
> Josh Hill <usere...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I read a few days ago that 25% (IIRC) of HDTV owners are watching low
>> def material on their new sets in the mistaken belief that it's high
>> def.
>
>I can personally vouch for this based on my own experience. My in-laws
>bought a plasma TV and pay for DirecTV HD channels, and *every time* we
>go over to their house, I notice they are watching the SD channel
>instead of the equivalent HD channel, so I change the channel for them.
>They always notice the difference once I point it out, but aren't savvy
>enough to figure out how to "get there" themselves.
At least they're having trouble figuring it out. A friend of mine was
complaining the other day that whenever he walks into the room he
finds his family watching TV using the standard definition inputs . .
..
Josh Hill
Harvey) wrote:
>I would blame the user interface design instead of your relatives. Why does
>the TV even offer them the option of the low-res channels, given that they
>subscribe to HD service, if there is an HD version of the same channel
>available?
That would seem to be the fault of DirectTV, not the TV maker . . .
Brian Harvey
>That would seem to be the fault of DirectTV, not the TV maker . . .
I agree -- sorry if my wording seemed to imply the contrary. But I think
one of the lessons of UI study is that users see a whole system, even if
it's made up of pieces from different suppliers.
John W. Kennedy
Because some channels, both broadcast (e.g., WNET-TV in NYC) and
non-broadcast (e.g., the Food Network) offer different content on their
SD and HD "versions". (And, no, I'm not being confused by the x.2+
channels.)
For what it's worth, Dish Network offers an HD-only mode on its guide.
--
John W. Kennedy
"Though a Rothschild you may be
In your own capacity,
As a Company you've come to utter sorrow--
But the Liquidators say,
'Never mind--you needn't pay,'
So you start another company to-morrow!"
-- Sir William S. Gilbert. "Utopia Limited"
Josh Hill
Ideally, everything would be integrated and transparent to the user,
but getting electronics companies, service providers, and government
to set the standards that would make that possible is like herding
cats. For example, when the FCC decided to make 8 VSB the national
over-the-air standard for digital video -- thereby insuring that the
United States and Canada would use a different system from everyone
else -- they chose to make the related 16 VSB the standard for cable.
But the cable companies decided instead to use QAM. And so it goes . .
.. interoperability and transparency to the user always lagging behind
what the technology would permit.
Jeffrey Kaplan
> I would blame the user interface design instead of your relatives. Why does
> the TV even offer them the option of the low-res channels, given that they
> subscribe to HD service, if there is an HD version of the same channel
> available?
Because it's not the job of the TV to decide which version of a channel
is right for the user? Because the TV doesn't know what channel is
what? If there's a UI issue here it's with their DirecTV guide.
What I did with my Comcast guide is remove the low-def channels from my
Favorites if there is a hi-def version that simulcasts the same
programming (forex, the local PBS and FoodNetwork show different
programming on each of their standard and HD channels) AND where they
don't frell the formatting of non-HD shows on the HD channel (forex,
History Channel stretches SD to fit the HD screen, distorting the
images). This way, when browsing the guide, I only see the HD channels
where there is the option.
(Now, I just have to remember to re-program my DVR settings when "my"
shows start up again since I went HD during the writers' strike.)
--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol
"But the entire Narn delegation has been seated next to the Vrii! An
intolerable situation. Have you ever seen them eat? Oh! That's
horror for you." (Amb. G'Kar, B5 "Survivors")
DevilsPGD
Kaplan <gor...@gordol.org> wrote:
>Because it's not the job of the TV to decide which version of a channel
>is right for the user?
A well designed UI would allow the user to choose what station they
want, and the backend would choose the best available source for that
station.
Carl Dershem
news:t05qr3l5qscjae33b...@4ax.com:
One might think that in a well designed UI, the channel would be less
important than the content.
cd
--
The difference between immorality and immortality is "T". I like Earl
Grey.
Chris Adams
Insufficient data - please come back when you have replaced all current
TV standards with something new that has enough information.
The "best available source" is generally not something a box can figure.
For example, some HD stations stretch SD content (when they don't have
HD content to show) to fill the screen, so (on many TVs) watching the SD
station with black bars on the side looks better. In the program guide
on my TiVo, TNT-HD marks _all_ content as "high-def", even when they are
warping (non-linear stretch) SD content, so you can't even tell by the
guide (you have to tune the channel and watch to find out). Yet another
reason TNT sucks.
However, if you are watching on a plasma (highly susceptible to screen
burn-in), you might prefer to watch the stretch picture instead of have
bars on the sides.
Also, a box can't necessarily tell what the best signal is for the
output device. I have multiple TVs (HD and SD) hooked up to one TiVo
for example; sometimes the "best" channel is determined by which TV I'm
watching.
--
Chris Adams <cma...@hiwaay.net>
Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services
I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
Matt Ion
I think a reasonable middle-ground would be for the signal provider
(digital cable, satellite, etc.) have a feature in their box that knows
when there's a high-def version of the currently-selected SD channel or
program, and simply pops up a prompt, "Would you like to view the HD
version of this feed?" with a "Yes/No" button. If the viewer then
chooses "Yes", it could potentially provide a second prompt to the
effect of "Would you like to remain on this channel, or return to the
previous selection?"
This is something that should, in theory, be easy for a service provider
to create and support, since most have their own decoder boxes for their
HD content, locked to their own systems.
Chris Adams
>This is something that should, in theory, be easy for a service provider
>to create and support, since most have their own decoder boxes for their
>HD content, locked to their own systems.
In most cases of content simultaneously available in both SD and HD, it
is the content provider, not the service provider, that knows which is
which (like I said, TNT provides bogus data to the programming
information companies, so I wouldn't expect them to do any better to the
cable/sat providers). Also, locked-in boxes are on the way out, since
new boxes have to be CableCard compliant.
Jeffrey Kaplan
> A well designed UI would allow the user to choose what station they
> want, and the backend would choose the best available source for that
> station.
Which should be a feature/function of the cable/satellite box, since
that's the hardware that knows what station is what.
--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol
If I Am Ever the Sidekick... 29. If the Hero calls for me from some
dark place I did not expect him to be, I'll hit the place with some
manner of illumination, ask for the password, and proceed with the
utmost caution.
Jeffrey Kaplan
> Also, a box can't necessarily tell what the best signal is for the
> output device. I have multiple TVs (HD and SD) hooked up to one TiVo
> for example; sometimes the "best" channel is determined by which TV I'm
> watching.
That is actually quite simple: Go by the output cable being used. The
box can tell which one is being used, and HDMI, at least, talks back to
report the capabilities of the display device. I know, because without
making any changes to the settings on my cable box, it autodetected the
resolution abilities of my Toshiba Regza when I upgraded from a
mumble-year old SD set - and won't let me override them.
ANT, Composite or S-Video, use SD channels/output. Component or HDMI,
use HD channels/output. Overrideable by the user, of course. Both to
overcome the stupid stretch-to-fit that some HD channels do, and also
to allow the user to watch the HD on SD sets if their box can
downconvert. Which is what I was doing before, btw.
--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol
If I Am Ever the Sidekick... 29. If the Hero calls for me from some
Jeffrey Kaplan
> In most cases of content simultaneously available in both SD and HD, it
> is the content provider, not the service provider, that knows which is
> which (like I said, TNT provides bogus data to the programming
> information companies, so I wouldn't expect them to do any better to the
> cable/sat providers). Also, locked-in boxes are on the way out, since
> new boxes have to be CableCard compliant.
The Box knows if the content provider has flagged it as HD or not.
That's all The Box needs. The content providers do (or should
properly) set flags for New, Repeat, and HD as well as for
content-rating.
Jay E. Morris
On 20-Feb-2008, b...@cs.berkeley.edu (Brian Harvey) wrote:
> I would blame the user interface design instead of your relatives. Why
> does
> the TV even offer them the option of the low-res channels, given that they
> subscribe to HD service, if there is an HD version of the same channel
> available?
Well when our cable goes wonkers we can often watch the low-res channel when
the HD channel is unwatchable.
--
Jay E. Morris
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