Your Name wrote on Fri, 03 October 2014 17:53
Most of these don't directly apply. For example, in the case
of something like Superman, you can't really have continuing
stories in the 'Superman universe' without Superman. Who
plays Superman will change over the generations almost
necessitating a reboot or reworking it in some other way. To
keep in the comic book world, this isn't so different from
different authors and artists coming along to continue the
comic book (which is done fairly frequently). Franchises
like Trek and Star Wars are a little different. You have far
more opportunity to tell other stories and continue the
timeline with different characters (as for example Star Trek
the Next Generation proved). I don't like the fact that Trek
got a reboot instead of a continuation with the latest
movies either but that is really the sole significant
complaint I have about those movies. Otherwise, I think
Abrams did a fairly good job with Trek and we already know
the new Star Wars is not a reboot in that sense anyway. And
as the reboot thing wasn't Abrams decision I don't see what
there is to fear from Abrams directing Star Wars. Did you
fear Kershner coming along to direct Empire Strikes Back?
>> Again, the "reboot" phrase doesn't necessarily have to be
used. Changes
>> can be made to an on-going series ... that's where
"jumping the shark"
>> comes from.
I think 'nuking the fridge' might be a better phrase for
what you are talking about in this case :). However, neither
phrase is directly related to new people working on a
series/franchise nor is it directly related to continuity
changes. 'Jumping the Shark' refers to the point in a series
where the quality starts to decline, for whatever reason. In
the Star Wars world some people would would point to when
the Ewoks showed up in Return of the Jedi or when Jar Jar
showed up in the prequels as jumping the shark moments. I
think there is a lot of life in Star Wars, am cautiously
optimistic about the new movies and don't expect a jumping
the shark moment until at least the fourth trilogy :).
> I have never said it definitely will be, only that
> almost every
> indication so far is pointing in that direction. Hence:
> "I have a bad
> feeling about this."
But most of your reasoning why and all of your examples how
it might be bad have been pretty bad themselves.
>> You can subcategorize it any way you want but he is
still
>> involved hence
>> still 'collaborating'. The word 'collaborate'
>> doesn't imply anything legal.
> The point is that George Lucas has no say in what does
> or doesn happen,
> so JJ Abrams (or whoever else is in charge) can make
> ill-fitting
> changes simply because they think that's what the
> franchise "should be"
> .... rather then George Lucas who actually created the
> franchise.
But the very fact that they did retain him as an adviser
would seem to indicate that they don't want to make
'ill-fitting' changes just for the hell of it.
>The fact that multiple people are being brought in for
vaious movies,
>etc. means it is even more likely that at least some of it
will be
>ill-fitting.
Why? The movies in the original trilogy all had different
directors, different script-writers and many other different
people working on them.
>>> JJ Abrams could ask George Lucas if he thinks the new
movie
>>> should
>>> include a four-hour graphic X-rated sex scene. George
Lucas
>>> would say
>>> "no, of course not", but JJ Abrams could still include
it
>>> anyway simply
>>> because that's what he thinks the franchise "should
be".
>>
>> Yes, but this is a stupid example and won't happen.
> It was an *EXAMPLE*. :-\
Yes, but a BAD one, otherwise known as a straw man
argument.
> Continuity ios what makes it a franchise. Having a pile
> of ill-fitting
> things creates a confused mess, or at best a set of
> comprting
> sub-franchises. Either way, nobody knows what the real
> "Star Wars" (or
> whatever) actually is.
Absolutely, but in the case of the new Star Wars movies
where you have many of the same actors, same writers, and
other same people who worked on the originals and have the
original creator as an adviser it seems a little silly to
start questioning continuity before they come out.
>>> Then you aren't a true "fan" of the franchise, as
defined
>>> by the
>>> meaning of the word. A true fan actually likes
something
>>> THE WAY IT IS
>>> and does not want idiotic ill-fitting changes turning
it
>>> into something
>>> very different.
>> I think this conversation has gone past the point of
being[/color]
>> ridiculous to the
>> point of just being a troll on your part.[/color]
>> Despite what you may think, you
>> aren't the sole authority on[/color]
>> what a 'fan' is. By your definition, no fan of
>> Star Wars (or
>> anything else) would want a sequel because it will in
some
>> way
>> change their perception of the way things are.
> Again, that's not what I said. I said no true fan winats
> the franchise
> to be changed. They are a "fan" because they like the
> franchise as it
> is - that's the dictionary definition of a fan. They may
> not like
> everything in it, but they like it as a whole and a set
> of things that
> fit properly together.
Any addition to a franchise is by definition a change and
most fans DO want that. If you mean a change to the
continuity then I agree. But again, every indication is that
that will NOT be the case with the Star Wars movies for the
reasons I've already mentioned. And no, that is not the
dictionary definition of what a fan is.
>> Yes, anything is possible but I don't think there is any
>> evidence yet to
>> suggest the new movies won't fit in with the
>> old. The evidence that
>> exists for the most part suggests
>> otherwise.
> And yet again, I never said it will "definitely be a
> disaster", simply
> that many things are pointing in that direction.
But the only real indications you have given why you believe
that is because there are some new people working on them
(which has been the case for every single Star Wars movie).
On a semi-related note, I have heard that the creator of
Babylon 5 is thinking of rebooting it and making a new
movie. So in your opinion would a true fan support this
since the creator is doing it or reject it since it is a
reboot and therefore a damn big change to the franchise?