Astonishing WS history claims by R.M.Hayes in WSR
Wide Gauge
The recent "Laser Magic 1998" special edition of Widescreen Review includes an
article by R.M.Hayes (author of "Wide Screen Movies" book) about roadshow films
that includes some rather startling details.
One in particular is his assertion that "South Pacific" was filmed in Super
Panavision 70, admitting that it's credited as being in Todd-AO (he makes a
similar assertion in his book).
He also specifies the audio format of the 3-panel MGM Cinerama films as having
"8-channel Cinerama Sound," even though the fullcoat 35mm sound tapes all have
seven tracks, not eight.
He also specifies most of the 70mm Cinerama films as having "8-channel Cinerama
Sound" by virtue of their having Perspecta encoded surrounds. Specifically,
"Mad Mad World," "Greatest Story," "Battle of the Bulge," "Grand Prix," "2001"
and "Ice Station Zebra" he says all have 8-channel sound.
He also claims a good number of non-Cinerama 70mm films also had 8-channel
sound (via Perspecta surrounds) specifically "Oklahoma!", "South Pacific,"
"Ben-Hur," "Can-Can," "Exodus," "Spartacus," "The Alamo," "King of Kings,"
"West Side Story," "Mutiny on the Bounty," "Cleopatra," "My Fair Lady," "The
Bible," and "Patton."
He also makes the general claim that the 8-channel 70mm films, when mixed down
to 4-track mag CinemaScope prints, retained the Perspecta encoding and were
therefore to be considered 6-channel prints.
Since these assertions are in conflict with common belief, I'd like to know if
anyone has any proof, a "smoking gun" if you will, that Hayes is correct.
Scott Marshall
Wide Gauge Film and Video Monthly
http://members.aol.com/widegauge/
PeterH5322
>>
One in particular is his assertion that "South Pacific" was filmed in Super
Panavision 70, admitting that it's credited as being in Todd-AO (he makes a
similar assertion in his book).
[ big snip ]
Since these assertions are in conflict with common belief, I'd like to know if
anyone has any proof, a "smoking gun" if you will, that Hayes is correct.
>>
By the time "South Pacific" was being filmed, Fox was the owner of Todd-AO.
The Superfilm cameras and American Optical Company lenses had been abandoned,
in favor of the newly released Mitchell BFC cameras and Bausch & Lomb Super
Baltar lenses.
I do not believe that Panavision owned or rented any cameras (35mm) or any
cameras and lenses (65mm) at this instant in time.
Eric Grayson
>He also specifies the audio format of the 3-panel MGM Cinerama films as
having
>"8-channel Cinerama Sound," even though the fullcoat 35mm sound tapes all
have
>seven tracks, not eight.
I can see absolutely no reason that can be used to support this assertion.
I find it entirely bogus. Since many of the Cinerama films pre-date
Perspecta I can't imagine that he could make the claim that they were ALL
Perspecta. Also, unless I'm mistaken, the Cinerama stuff was all 6-track
until HTWWW, which was 7. Isn't this correct?
>He also specifies most of the 70mm Cinerama films as having "8-channel
Cinerama
>Sound" by virtue of their having Perspecta encoded surrounds.
Specifically,
>"Mad Mad World," "Greatest Story," "Battle of the Bulge," "Grand Prix,"
"2001"
>and "Ice Station Zebra" he says all have 8-channel sound.
Wait a second! Unless I'm gravely mistaken, don't all these films have mag
track with them and NOT an accompanying full-coat??????? Those that are in
rerelease now certainly do have mag tracks like normal prints. Mad World
and 2001 have been RRed with conventional tracks.
>He also claims a good number of non-Cinerama 70mm films also had 8-channel
>sound (via Perspecta surrounds) specifically "Oklahoma!", "South Pacific,"
>"Ben-Hur," "Can-Can," "Exodus," "Spartacus," "The Alamo," "King of Kings,"
>"West Side Story," "Mutiny on the Bounty," "Cleopatra," "My Fair Lady,"
"The
>Bible," and "Patton."
I suppose this might be supportable. I find it a little strange.
>He also makes the general claim that the 8-channel 70mm films, when mixed
down
>to 4-track mag CinemaScope prints, retained the Perspecta encoding and
were
>therefore to be considered 6-channel prints.
Well, OK. But Perspecta at its BEST is not really stereo but panned mono.
I don't know that these were encoded with Perspecta but they could have
been, I suppose.
I think this is similar to asserting that the original release of Fantasia
is in true 3-channel stereo. It's not. It's panned mono, which can sound
incredibly cool, but it's not really stereo. You could argue that later
releases of Fantasia were stereo, but not the original release.
>Since these assertions are in conflict with common belief, I'd like to
know if
>anyone has any proof, a "smoking gun" if you will, that Hayes is correct.
>
I think the gun is smoking but it's not facing the same direction that
Hayes thinks.
Eric
Theo Gluck
> The recent "Laser Magic 1998" special edition of Widescreen Review includes an
> article by R.M.Hayes (author of "Wide Screen Movies" book) about roadshow films
> that includes some rather startling details.
Groan.......
OK. I'll grant you that many of us are rabid about these things, but RMH's claims
have always been hard to prove.
> One in particular is his assertion that "South Pacific" was filmed in Super
> Panavision 70, admitting that it's credited as being in Todd-AO (he makes a
> similar assertion in his book).
PUHLEEEZE....so all the prints and supporting materials went out WRONG and NO ONE
ever corrected them?!?!?!?
> He also specifies the audio format of the 3-panel MGM Cinerama films as having
> "8-channel Cinerama Sound," even though the fullcoat 35mm sound tapes all have
> seven tracks, not eight.
Oh Lord.....
> He also specifies most of the 70mm Cinerama films as having "8-channel Cinerama
> Sound" by virtue of their having Perspecta encoded surrounds. Specifically,
> "Mad Mad World," "Greatest Story," "Battle of the Bulge," "Grand Prix," "2001"
> and "Ice Station Zebra" he says all have 8-channel sound.
Jeeez...........raise your hand if you have EVER heard of this claim from ANY
other source.......
> He also claims a good number of non-Cinerama 70mm films also had 8-channel
> sound (via Perspecta surrounds) specifically "Oklahoma!", "South Pacific,"
> "Ben-Hur," "Can-Can," "Exodus," "Spartacus," "The Alamo," "King of Kings,"
> "West Side Story," "Mutiny on the Bounty," "Cleopatra," "My Fair Lady," "The
> Bible," and "Patton."
SPARTACUS? MY FAIR LADY? Perspecta surround tracks?.......and The Dynamic Duo of
Harris and Katz missed this sonic news? I don't THINK so, Skippy......
> He also makes the general claim that the 8-channel 70mm films, when mixed down
> to 4-track mag CinemaScope prints, retained the Perspecta encoding and were
> therefore to be considered 6-channel prints.
where are my nitro pills?!? ...... the room is spinning...I need air.......
> Since these assertions are in conflict with common belief, I'd like to know if
> anyone has any proof, a "smoking gun" if you will, that Hayes is correct.
>
> Scott Marshall
Scott:
I think the "smoking" should refer to WHATEVER substance is clouding rational
thought.
And the gun is firmly aimed at his feet.
incredulous in the extreme,
Theo
Studio City, CA
Mark Lensenmayer
: The recent "Laser Magic 1998" special edition of Widescreen Review includes an
: article by R.M.Hayes (author of "Wide Screen Movies" book) about roadshow films
: that includes some rather startling details.
Oh, No, Not Again! Guess I'd better be sure I've taken my blood pressure
pills until this dies down again.
John Harvey is running Cinerama, and he's only using 7 channels. He's had
heads made by the original makers, and they only used 7 channels. The
switch from side surround to back surround in This is Cinerama is done by
hand, and with the number of operators in the initial installations, there
were certainly enough people to do that.
And I can not imagine Mr. Katz and Mr. Harris would not discover this
Perspecta encoding in all of their research for MY FAIR LADY.
Where does Hayes get this information?
I hope this dies out soon.
Mark L.
Martin Hart
peter...@aol.com says...
<SNIP>
> By the time "South Pacific" was being filmed, Fox was the owner of Todd-AO.
>
> The Superfilm cameras and American Optical Company lenses had been abandoned,
> in favor of the newly released Mitchell BFC cameras and Bausch & Lomb Super
> Baltar lenses.
>
> I do not believe that Panavision owned or rented any cameras (35mm) or any
> cameras and lenses (65mm) at this instant in time.
Herr Doktor Haze is totally incorrect. The Process Lenses By Panavision
credit that doubtless fogs his mind is a reference to the Micro-Panatar
printer lens used to make the 35mm reduction print.
SOUTH PACIFIC was filmed in Todd-AO using Mitchell BFC cameras labelled
TODD-AO.
Marty
--
Visit The American WideScreen Museum
Relive the panoramic past
http://www.simplecom.net/widefilm
Martin Hart
it available to anyone wishing to see the incredible list of idiotic
inventions that Herr Doktor has added to his personal history of film
technology. I strongly suggest anyone suffering from an ulcer stay clear
of the article, it'll punch holes in your stomach lining.
NOTE: DR. HAZE IS ABOUT TO UNLEASH A NEW BOOK BASED ON ROADSHOW FILMS SO
HIS HERETOFORE UNKNOWN INFORMATION WILL BE WIDELY AVAILABLE TO THE
GULLIBLE.
Marty
PeterH5322
Marty, in part, sez:
>>
SOUTH PACIFIC was filmed in Todd-AO using Mitchell BFC cameras labelled TODD-AO
...
>>
... and was undoubtedly the first production use of the BFC, which use would be
continued until the end of Todd-AO, although it's likely that D-150 lenses were
substituted for some or all of the Bausch & Lomb Super Baltars towards the end
of that late, great wide-screen process ... one of many which Panavision has
"cloned" and re-issued as it's own.
David Richards
>On Tue, Sep 29, 1998 10:36 AM, Wide Gauge <mailto:wide...@aol.com> wrote:
>>having "8-channel Cinerama Sound," even though the fullcoat 35mm sound
>>tapes all have seven tracks, not eight.
>
>until HTWWW, which was 7. Isn't this correct?
No, it was always 7, starting from the time of "This is Cinerama". This
choice does seem to have been made late in the game however, since the
first printing of the descriptive booklet about Cinerama only mentions
6 sound channels. A second printing of the book soon followed, basically
identical to the first, but with the "6" changed to "7". Dan Sherlock
has copies of both versions.
Dave
cin...@hotmail.com
wide...@aol.com (Wide Gauge) wrote:
>
> The recent "Laser Magic 1998" special edition of Widescreen Review includes an
> article by R.M.Hayes (author of "Wide Screen Movies" book) about roadshow
films
> that includes some rather startling details.
>
> Panavision 70, admitting that it's credited as being in Todd-AO (he makes a
> similar assertion in his book).
>
I have been totally baffled by this question of whether SOUTH PACIFIC
was really filmed in TODD-AO or if it was in fact filmed in SUPER
PANAVISION 70. According to the PANAFLEX USERS MANUAL by David
Samuelson, SOUTH PACIFIC is included in a list of films at the back
of the book that were(according to PANAVISION's records) photographed
using PANAVISION Cameras and/or lenses.Now whether or not that list
is accurate I have no idea. It also includes FANTASTIC VOYAGE,
VON RYAN'S EXPRESS and THE LONGEST DAY as being filmed with
PANAVISION cameras and/or lenses. I always thought these films
were photographed using BAUSCH & LOMB Cinemascope lenses but I
have heard a story that Frank Sinatra insisted on FOX using
the PANAVISION lenses on VON RYAN'S EXPRESS, so it may well be
that they were used.
By the way I notice the "process Lenses by PANAVISION" credit
also was used in JAILHOUSE ROCK which was shot in 35MM anamor-
phic, so there would be no question of micro-panatar optical
reduction prints being used. Was JAILHOUSE ROCK the first
film to use the 35MM AUTO PANATAR anamorphic lenses?I have a
feeling it might have been.Surely somebody at PANAVISION could
clear this up!
REGARDS
Peter Mason
> He also specifies the audio format of the 3-panel MGM Cinerama films as having
> "8-channel Cinerama Sound," even though the fullcoat 35mm sound tapes all have
> seven tracks, not eight.
>
> He also specifies most of the 70mm Cinerama films as having "8-channel
Cinerama
> Sound" by virtue of their having Perspecta encoded surrounds. Specifically,
> "Mad Mad World," "Greatest Story," "Battle of the Bulge," "Grand Prix," "2001"
> and "Ice Station Zebra" he says all have 8-channel sound.
>
> He also claims a good number of non-Cinerama 70mm films also had 8-channel
> sound (via Perspecta surrounds) specifically "Oklahoma!", "South Pacific,"
> "Ben-Hur," "Can-Can," "Exodus," "Spartacus," "The Alamo," "King of Kings,"
> "West Side Story," "Mutiny on the Bounty," "Cleopatra," "My Fair Lady," "The
> Bible," and "Patton."
>
> He also makes the general claim that the 8-channel 70mm films, when mixed down
> to 4-track mag CinemaScope prints, retained the Perspecta encoding and were
> therefore to be considered 6-channel prints.
>
> Since these assertions are in conflict with common belief, I'd like to know if
> anyone has any proof, a "smoking gun" if you will, that Hayes is correct.
>
> Scott Marshall
> Wide Gauge Film and Video Monthly
> http://members.aol.com/widegauge/
>
>
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Martin Hart
> >
>
> I have been totally baffled by this question of whether SOUTH PACIFIC
> was really filmed in TODD-AO or if it was in fact filmed in SUPER
> PANAVISION 70. According to the PANAFLEX USERS MANUAL by David
> Samuelson, SOUTH PACIFIC is included in a list of films at the back
> of the book that were(according to PANAVISION's records) photographed
> using PANAVISION Cameras and/or lenses.
Panavision was not in the camera business in 1958. I can assure you that
their participation was limited to the printer lenses used to make the
65mm to 35mm optical reduction prints.
Confusion over the meaning of Panavision credits is understandable.
"Process lenses by Panavision" could easily be misunderstood. In
"Spartacus", photographed in Technirama, all credits, both print and on
screen include "photographic lenses by Panavision" but, here again, the
Panavision optics were limited to the printers that converted the
anamorphic 8-perf negative to a flat 70mm print. The camera optics
consisted of Cooke spherical lenses and Delft "Delrama" anamorphic mirror
attachments.
You will see dozens, if not hundreds, of M-G-M CinemaScope films carrying
a small Panavision credit because they did use Panavision lenses. Those
lenses, incidentally, received an Academy technical award as being an
"improved CinemaScope lens".
The first Super Panavision 70 film, "The Big Fisherman" carries a title
credit saying, "Photographic Process by Panavision". Their print
materials say, "Photographed in Panavision" or simply "Panavision".
I've heard the rumors about certain Fox productions using Panavision
lenses while still being credited as CinemaScope. One way to verify this
is to look for the Bausch & Lomb credit that appeared in all Fox
CinemaScope product.
PeterH5322
>>
I have been totally baffled by this question of whether SOUTH PACIFIC
was really filmed in TODD-AO or if it was in fact filmed in SUPER
PANAVISION 70. According to the PANAFLEX USERS MANUAL by David
Samuelson, SOUTH PACIFIC is included in a list of films at the back
of the book that were(according to PANAVISION's records) photographed
using PANAVISION Cameras and/or lenses.Now whether or not that list
is accurate I have no idea. It also includes FANTASTIC VOYAGE,
VON RYAN'S EXPRESS and THE LONGEST DAY as being filmed with
PANAVISION cameras and/or lenses. I always thought these films
were photographed using BAUSCH & LOMB Cinemascope lenses but I
have heard a story that Frank Sinatra insisted on FOX using
the PANAVISION lenses on VON RYAN'S EXPRESS, so it may well be
that they were used.
>>
At the time "South Pacific" was being filmed, Panavision owned or rented no
35mm cameras and owned or rented no 65mm cameras and lenses.
Panavision's only products at that instant was:
1) 35mm projection lenses of the prism type (the so-called Ultra-Panatar),
2) 35mm production lenses of the cylindrical/prism type (the so-called
Auto-Panatar),
3) 16mm projection lenses of the cylindrical type (the so-called Superama).
"South Pacific" was filmed by Fox using the then-new Mitchell BFC cameras and
Bausch & Lomb Super Baltar lenses. No Panavision equipment of any kind was
involved in the production of "South Pacific".
The screen credit for "Process Lenses by Panavision", which is seen only on the
domestic U.S.A. 35mm version of "South Pacific" is undoubtedly due to the use
of the so-called Micro-Panatar optical printer lens during post-production to
produce the 35mm reduction intermediate element.
"Fantastic Voyage" was shot on the Fox lot using the Fox Studio Camera (circa
late 1930s) ... the very first totally silent camera (30 years before
Panavision would "invent" the silent camera) ... and Bausch & Lomb CinemaScope
lenses.
Fox would continue to use that camera, although with Panvision lenses after
1967, until these cameras were retired in 1969.
"Von Ryan's Express" could have been shot with Panavision lenses.
Several independent producers made films for Fox release, and some of them
specified Panavision lenses, even though screen credit was given exclusively to
CinemaScope.
All of these give screen credit to CinemaScope (and have the obligatory Fox
Fanfare with CinemaScope Extension), but lack lens credit of any kind.
The easy way to tell if a Panavision lens was LIKELY to have been used is to
observe if there is a "CinemaScope Lenses by Bausch & Lomb" title card.
If there is no such title card, then it's possible that Panavision lenses were
used (the Fox Studio Camera had a special adapter available for it in order to
accept Panavision lenses).
But another explanation is that there was no room on the title cards for the
B&L credit.
Every example I know of contained the CinemaScope Extension to the Fox Fanfare
and also contained the title card stating "CinemaScope is the registered
trademark of Twentieth Century-Fox Film Corporation (R)".
VEYOUNG
Without even going anywhere *near* his audio delusions, Hayes' roadshow
article also includes some other interesting misinformation.
"Can-Can..was exhibited in 35mm scope not 70mm at the Rivoli Theatre."
Wrong. I saw it there.
"...none of the three-panel Cinerama features ever had non-hard ticket general
releases."
Well, geez, none of the three-panel Cinerama features had general releases at
all. However, to be real nit-picky, there were some continuous-performance
3-panel exhibitions, e.g., reissue of "Cinerama Holiday" at the Palace in
Chicago; reissues of "This Is Cinerama" and "Windjammer" at the Capitol in New
York.
"The Blue Max...Filmed in CinemaScope and blown up to 70mm..."
No 70mm blowup for this one. The only Fox 35mm scope film blown up would be
"The Longest Day" on the occasion of its reissue on the 25th anniversary of
D-Day.
"Hawaii..Filmed in Panavisiion and blown up to 70mm with 6-channel magnetic
stereo."
UA had no 70mm blowups made. In fact, it was discussed in this group a while
back that the 35mm prints were standard mono.
"2001: A Space Odyssey...Filmed in Super Panavision 70 and Todd-AO.."
Didn't we discuss this urban myth to death some time ago?
"The Bible...Filmed in Todd-AO and presented in Dimension 150"
Don't be ridiculous!
I'm sure there're more errors, but I'd rather eat my cat than read that mess
again!
Wide Gauge
In article <daverichF...@netcom.com>, dave...@netcom.com (David
Richards) writes:
>it was always 7, starting from the time of "This is Cinerama". This
>choice does seem to have been made late in the game however, since the
>first printing of the descriptive booklet about Cinerama only mentions
>6 sound channels. A second printing of the book soon followed, basically
>identical to the first, but with the "6" changed to "7".
Dave is correct. True Cinerama ALWAYS ran public performances with 7-track
sound reproducers. A prototype, used before the Sept 30 1952 premier, did
indeed have only 6 tracks, but for years documents, articles, and drawings
failed to reflect the change from 6 to 7 tracks.
One could argue that Cinerama was 8-channel by considering that the surround
was indeed split three ways (left, right, rear) even though they were switched
manually during the performance from 7-track tapes. I've also seen evidence
that Cinerama Inc. experimented with the Perspecta system, but when I asked
Went Fling about this, he had no recollection of it, so I'm pretty sure it was
not a normal part of Cinerama sound systems.
Tiger
Robert Harris wrote in message <36152ec9...@news.cloud9.net>...
>Alright, folks. Time to put the cards on the table...
>
>so to speak...
>
>A few historical notes.
>
>Lawrence.
>
>3 track with four or five effects on channel four.
>
>However, My Fair Lady was recorded AND dubbed via the
>Edidub system. This film, which no only used the first
>live mikes for Rex Harrison, took full advantage of
>Edidub.
>
>This state of the art system was 8 TRACK.
>
>And it was fully recorded and dubbed on
>large scale (14") Edison cylinders.
>
>Warners archived and fortunately CBS held onto
>all cylinders - M,E and D.
>
>These were all predubbed and the final
>6 track mix has an audible 5k tone on channel
>six. When decoded, this splits the surrounds
>into full discreet information left and right to
>create the seventh channel.
>
>These cylinders were transferred to mag
>in 1994, however since many theatres
>at that time were unable to play back the
>split cylrounds, they were dropped.
>
>The 5k tone however can still be heard
>bleeding through to channel 4 and 5 on
>occasion.
>
>Hopefully, the industry will gets its act
>together in the near future, understand
>the incredible power and noise of
>wax cylinders and go back to the
>true Edidub system which made these
>roadshows what they were.
>
>It's next to be heard in "Eyes Wide Shut."
>
>RAH
Ah, yes! The Edidub (TM). You can get a glimpse of the early photo-sound
unit for 35mm soundtracks in "My Fair Lady" too. Remember the device that
Eliza speaks into that modulates the Bunsen (TM) Burner flame. It was true
Variable Area and Variable Density at the same time! You just can't get
analog technology better than that.
Morgan
Robert Harris
Martin Hart
says...
> Alright, folks. Time to put the cards on the table...
>
> so to speak...
>
> A few historical notes.
>
> Lawrence.
>
> 3 track with four or five effects on channel four.
>
> However, My Fair Lady was recorded AND dubbed via the
> Edidub system. This film, which no only used the first
> live mikes for Rex Harrison, took full advantage of
> Edidub.
<SNIP>
Oh, Bob, we all knew that stuff.
But there are very few people that knew that the sound recording system
was visible on screen frequently in Higgins' digs. They had a hard time
hiding the sound recording gear because the Grandeur (though the film is
credited as Super Panavision 70) cameras were in those gigantic
soundproof booths that took up half the stage. And to think that people
bitch just because a mike dips into the picture from time to time.
I'm looking forward to the upcoming DVD, which should be done in the
CORRECT 2.05:1 aspect ratio and featuring a direct sound transfer in the
new digital 5.276 channel system.
Wide Gauge
In article <MPG.107e2a116...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>,
m.b....@worldnet.att.net (Martin Hart) writes:
>But there are very few people that knew that the sound recording system
>was visible on screen frequently in Higgins' digs. They had a hard time
>hiding the sound recording gear because the Grandeur (though the film is
>credited as Super Panavision 70) cameras were in those gigantic
>soundproof booths that took up half the stage.
Marty (aka Mary) is correct. Few people know, also, that the Edison cylinders
used to record the Edidub(tm) sound tracks were synchronized to the Grandeur
cameras (actually converted Cineorama 70mm units) via bicycle chains. You may
have noticed that no actors in MFL ever actually ride on a bicycle because
every chain available on the lot was being utilized by Warner's
state-of-the-art synchronizing department.
The fact that the Edidub(tm) system did not become the industry-wide standard
can only be chalked up to insanity.
BTW: The myth that "My Fair Lady" had Perspecta encoding on its surround track
began when, during a restoration mixing session by Harris and Katz, one of the
techs was having stomach problems, and this was of course mistaken for the
30-40 Hz Perspecta tones.
w...@mindless.com
> However, My Fair Lady was recorded AND dubbed via the
> Edidub system.
We have the remains of an Ediphone system here!
If you haven't heard of it, the Ediphone was one of the early (and
short-lived) sync-sound systems kicking around with Photophone & Vitaphone
before "Jazz Singer". It was designed for sync-sound shorts, but saw most
use with Ediphone music libraries sold to theaters for generic non-sync
recorded accomp of silents.
There's a 2 or 2 1/2 foot dia. sprocket on the back wall of the booth which
was linked to the old hand-crank projector (much like Vitaphone disc
turntables were). From the sprocket a large chain like a bicycle chain (now
gone) ran to the back of the pipe tunnels beneath the house floor to turn the
corner via 2 sprockets on an axle, another chain (still there) on the 2nd
sprocket which runs from back of the house to beneath the stage & another
axle, and then a final chain ran up to the Ediphone player on the wall at the
back of the stage.
I had always thought the player was some old contactors no longer used for
stage lighting. A couple of years ago, they pulled the cyc down for a rehang
& I got a look at it: it looks like a bank of paper towel holders, with
manifolds on each side for the stylus heads. The manifolds join & sweep
upward together like the exhaust manifolds on 60's & 70's British sports
cars, and are made of some (rotting) plastic, maybe thick celluloid or
bakelite. Only about 3 of the heads are still there. There are cute little
tripper mechanisms at the end of the travel for each head to start the next
cylinder.
Before we figured out what this thing was, we'd heard some old-timers who
would say "that old speaker was as about as big as the screen" and thought
their memories were exaggerating the size of some early WE speakers. But
they're probably pretty close to being right. The horn would have mated up
to where the manifolds ran to a single. Whoever had to bust that thing up &
ditch it must have been having a *great* week.
I'll bet the system was wonderful in operation. In chase scenes, when the
projectionist cranked faster, the speed & pitch of the music would increase; &
then slow d-o-w-n for love scenes & tragic stuff. It probably sounded like
cats fighting in clothes dryer.
There's a brass "EdiPhone" plate on the side of the player. I'll try to
remember to get a picture when they pull all the rigging down next summer to
install the new fly system.
I guess the 14" cylinders continued to see use in the Edidub system even after
Ediphone was obsolete.
--
===================================
William Hooper <w...@mindless.com>
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Giovanni Abrate
decades!
Giovanni
Wide Gauge wrote in message
<19981002111306...@ngol01.aol.com>...
>
>In article <MPG.107e2a116...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>,
>m.b....@worldnet.att.net (Martin Hart) writes:
>
>Marty (aka Mary) is correct. >
cinemad
> Alright, folks. Time to put the cards on the table...
>
> so to speak...
>
> A few historical notes.
>
> Lawrence.
>
> 3 track with four or five effects on channel four.
>
> live mikes for Rex Harrison, took full advantage of
> Edidub.
>
Ian Partridge
"cinemad" <cin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:025b0e01-546f-4289...@googlegroups.com...
Dickson and became Hepdick Audionophone Ltd. It was used by Jacques Tati on
the Thompson unseen colour version of 'M. Hulot's Holiday,' and you can
still hear Hepdick sound when Christopher Lee calls out ' ...get your Daily
Telegraph!' on the English soundtrack version.
Ian
cinemad
> Alright, folks. Time to put the cards on the table...
>
> so to speak...
>
> A few historical notes.
>
> Lawrence.
>
> 3 track with four or five effects on channel four.
>
> However, My Fair Lady was recorded AND dubbed via the
> Edidub system. This film, which no only used the first
> live mikes for Rex Harrison, took full advantage of
> Edidub.
>
> This state of the art system was 8 TRACK.
>
> And it was fully recorded and dubbed on
> large scale (14") Edison cylinders.
>
> Warners archived and fortunately CBS held onto
> all cylinders - M,E and D.
>
> These were all predubbed and the final
> 6 track mix has an audible 5k tone on channel
> six. When decoded, this splits the surrounds
>
> These cylinders were transferred to mag
> in 1994, however since many theatres
> at that time were unable to play back the
> split cylrounds, they were dropped.
>
> The 5k tone however can still be heard
> bleeding through to channel 4 and 5 on
> occasion.
>
> Hopefully, the industry will gets its act
> together in the near future, understand
> the incredible power and noise of
> wax cylinders and go back to the
> true Edidub system which made these
> roadshows what they were.
>
> It's next to be heard in "Eyes Wide Shut."
>
> RAH
Ian Partridge
about giant Edison wax cylinders being used for modern film sound.
Ian