Films in which the "heroes" are, by in large, real world bad guys
S D
le...@my-deja.com
> The Vikings, Taras Bulba ..others ?
Genghis Khan
Jesse James (esp. the 1939 film starring Tyrone Power)
Dillinger
Pretty Boy Floyd
Baby Face Nelson
Birth of a Nation
Gone with the Wind
Santa Fe Trail (where Confederate generals subdue a pesky bunch of
abolitionists)
Kingo Gondo
"S D" <for...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:24706-491...@storefull-3333.bay.webtv.net...
> The Vikings, Taras Bulba ..others ?
A fuckload of westerns, especially the earlier ones.
nick
wrote:
> "S D" <forn...@webtv.net> wrote in message
>
> news:24706-491...@storefull-3333.bay.webtv.net...
>
> > The Vikings, Taras Bulba ..others ?
>
> A fuckload of westerns, especially the earlier ones.
Gore Vidal said that as a youngster his favorite film was The Crusades
but it was only when he got older did he realize he was rooting for
the wrong side.
George Peatty
wrote:
>Gore Vidal said that as a youngster his favorite film was The Crusades
>but it was only when he got older did he realize he was rooting for
>the wrong side.
Which raises the question of just who he was rooting for ..
Halmyre
> "S D" <forn...@webtv.net> wrote in message
>
> news:24706-491...@storefull-3333.bay.webtv.net...
>
> > The Vikings, Taras Bulba ..others ?
>
> A fuckload of westerns, especially the earlier ones.
Even some later ones - 'The Wild Bunch', for example, and
'Unforgiven'.
--
Halmyre
Halmyre
> The Vikings, Taras Bulba ..others ?
'The Blue Max', 'Cross Of Iron' ?
--
Halmyre
Stone me
"Halmyre" <flashgord...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a9bb0582-f8af-44c4...@i24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On 10 Nov, 20:29, forn...@webtv.net (S D) wrote:
>> The Vikings, Taras Bulba ..others ?
>
> 'The Blue Max', 'Cross Of Iron' ?
Cross Of Iron would depend upon the interpretation.
Steiner is the Eternal Soldier of no political affiliation,
loyal to the men of his squad above all else,
whereas we are invited to interpret his immediate Senior
Officer as the evil one, not brave, ruthlessly ambitious,
untrustworthy, etc.
Steiner is still a bad guy if you tend towards pacifism, but
even that stance has to have some sympathy for him.
Stone me.
Halmyre
> "Halmyre" <flashgordonreced...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
That's why I put the question mark. I wonder how difficult it was for
Peckinpah to get to make a film from the point of view of the German
Army.
--
Halmyre
rcp
> The Vikings, Taras Bulba ..others ?
Bonnie and Clyde seems to be the poster child for this category.
tomcervo
'The Blue Max'?
Imperial Germany had a wider suffrage than some of the democracies
ranged against it. Mind you, Stachel (the German word for "sting") did
not exactly work and play well with others, but he was hardly the bad
guy that James Mason was.
tomcervo
Eastwood was all set to play the title character until a project
conflict came up--from hero cop to cop killer.
Del
"S D" <for...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:24706-491...@storefull-3333.bay.webtv.net...
> The Vikings, Taras Bulba ..others ?
The Corleones were practically the Waltons.
Del Stanley
S D
and Clyde for example are not depicted as estimable . just human . I
really was keying in on white washes .
Richard Schultz
: On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:29:35 -0500, S D wrote:
:> The Vikings, Taras Bulba ..others ?
: Bonnie and Clyde seems to be the poster child for this category.
_Ocean's [n]_, _The Sting_, _Entrapment_, etc.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad."
rcp
> In article <pan.2008.11.11....@dont.spam.me>, rcp <r...@dont.spam.me> wrote:
> : On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:29:35 -0500, S D wrote:
>
> :> The Vikings, Taras Bulba ..others ?
>
> : Bonnie and Clyde seems to be the poster child for this category.
>
> To which we can add just about any crime caper flick -- _Rififi_, _Topkapi_,
> _Ocean's [n]_, _The Sting_, _Entrapment_, etc.
>
Well, the original post did ask for real-life bad guys. So, any crime
caper films based on real-life bad guys (which I don't think any of those
are but don't really know) would indeed fit. And by "based on" I something
more than "inspired by".
T987654321
Bill Anderson
> Any movie with a government employee as the hero.
James Bond is a bad guy? Matt Dillon? Sergeant York? Rin Tin Tin?
--
Bill Anderson
I am the Mighty Favog
Del
"T987654321" <qwrt...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f050d205-7628-47bb...@b31g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
> Any movie with a government employee as the hero.
That's practically almost all movies dealing with war heroes,
presidents, premiers, prime ministers, spies, cops, firemen, etc.
ALL heroes from a communist country would qualify
wouldn't they---spacemen, sharpshooters-"Enemy at the Gates"
for example, and all of their Olympic heroes?
Then there was Kevin Costner-in a silly movie about being a
mailman, but then again, I don't think there was a government.
I better not go postal in any event. I guess there are quite a few
whistle blowers that worked in the govt. "Deep Throat" of
Watergate fame, he was FBI, I guess he was both hero and anti-hero
to a lot of people.
Del Stanley
T987654321
Del
"T987654321" <qwrt...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:98da5667-c9fe-48c8...@u29g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> "war hero"? That's an oxymoronism.
Tennessean Alvin York shared the same sentiments.
Del Stanley
Igenlode Wordsmith
> The Vikings, Taras Bulba ..others ?
>
I've just been watching "The Glass Key", in which we get to admire the
hero, enforcer to a crooked politician, intimidating the District
Attorney with the likely consequences if Our Hero's boss doesn't walk
free of an inconvenient murder charge ("the last man who failed to
co-operate took a walk off a nine-story building") -- a slightly surreal
experience, after seeing the same scenario presented in so many Westerns
as a pathetically obvious piece of villainy!
--
Igenlode Wordsmith
The Gentleman's guide to Usenet - see http://ivory.150m.com/Tower/GENTLE.TXT
Michael O'Connor
dirty and I never really knew who I was supposed to be rooting for.
Tue Sorensen
> The Vikings, Taras Bulba ..others ?
Robert Altman's The Player.
Technically, any gangster, mafia and triad movie (in Southeast Asia
they love movies about heroic assassins). But if you mean white-
washings of evils committed by the establishment, then the answers
depend a great deal on your political views, don't they? Are colonial
powers bad guys? Is Nixon? Capitalism? Communism?
I always wanted to see a Vietnam War movie starring a heroic
Vietnamese soldier who kicks American ass, but as far as I know such a
movie doesn't exist. I'd love to be proved wrong.
- Tue
Del
"Tue Sorensen" <soren...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4b831dc9-b267-4e2b...@v13g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> On 10 Nov., 21:29, forn...@webtv.net (S D) wrote:
>> The Vikings, Taras Bulba ..others ?
>
> Robert Altman's The Player.
>
> Technically, any gangster, mafia and triad movie (in Southeast Asia
> they love movies about heroic assassins). But if you mean white-
> washings of evils committed by the establishment, then the answers
> depend a great deal on your political views, don't they? Are
> colonial
> powers bad guys? Is Nixon? Capitalism? Communism?
In that vein then, movies re Christopher Columbus to many
American Indians. "Royal Hunt of the Sun" with Robert Shaw
playing Pizarro to many South American Indians. I can't
immediately recall movies re Hernan Cortes and the Aztecs.
Davy Crockett, and the other defenders of the Alamo to
many Mexicans.
> I always wanted to see a Vietnam War movie starring a heroic
> Vietnamese soldier who kicks American ass, but as far as I know such
> a
> movie doesn't exist. I'd love to be proved wrong.
Not Vietnam, but did you see "Chato's Land?" Non American
Indian Charles Bronson was in the lead role, but the film may
reflect your sentiments.
Del Stanley
Tue Sorensen
> "Tue Sorensen" <sorenson...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Heard of it, but not seen it. Will make an effort to!
- Tue
Jared
>
> I always wanted to see a Vietnam War movie starring a heroic
> Vietnamese soldier who kicks American ass, but as far as I know such a
> movie doesn't exist. I'd love to be proved wrong.
Presumably there must be some Vietnamese movies along that lines.
I feel the same way about films like ZULU and BLACK HAWK DOWN. Don't
get me wrong, I have nothing but the very greatest admiration for the
amazing heroism of the Brits and Americans who stood their ground
against such incredible numbers, but I also respect the Africans who
watched thousands of their comrades mown down by superior firepower
and still they kept coming.
Treadleson
> The Vikings, Taras Bulba ..others ?
Badlands.
Del
--
"nick" <nickmacp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:4f8c3696-5bd0-452f...@35g2000pry.googlegroups.com...
Gore Vidal said that as a youngster his favorite film was The Crusades
but it was only when he got older did he realize he was rooting for
the wrong side.
He was very mature when he wrote about Billy the Kid.
(Left Handed Gun...Gore Vidal's Billy the Kid). Jesse James
and BTK are perhaps the two most romantic figures of the
old American wild west. Aaron Copland even wrote a
symphony (No. 3) about BTK. The Kid was a three
time cop killer (he was in jail for killing one, and escaped
by killing two more)!
I have a confession to make: I was at his gravesite
(the "real" one) in Fort Sumner a few weeks ago. If
you ever go bring two bits---I didn't have any change.
Del Stanley
Steven L.
> The Vikings, Taras Bulba ..others ?
>
The Ku Klux Klan ("Birth of a Nation")
Michael Corleone (in "The Godfather" trilogy)
And in "Fatherland," some decent, humanist-type Nazi SS officers risk
their lives to uncover a plot by some of the usual nasty evil Nazi SS
type officers.
--
Steven L.
Email: sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
Anim8rFSK
--
Bad Reboot's 'Crap Trek' 2009: "No Shat, No Show"
Rich T
> The Vikings, Taras Bulba ..others ?
Am I really the first one to (jokingly) offer "W"?
Avoid normal situations.
[..]
> Are colonial
> powers bad guys? Is Nixon? Capitalism? Communism?
Yes.
ObOnTopic: _Das Boot_. More subtlely... _The Front_. _The Front_ is one of
my favorite "quiet" films, but it oh so neatly avoids giving away just how
foul communism really was.
--
alt.flame Special Forces
"We must hate -- hatred is the basis of communism. Children must be taught to
hate their parents if they are not communists."
-- Nikolai Lenin, speech to the Commissars of Education, Moscow, 1923
Stone me
"Avoid normal situations." <byend.removethis...@eskimo.com>
wrote in message news:gsfgs...@enews5.newsguy.com...
> Tue Sorensen <soren...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 10 Nov., 21:29, forn...@webtv.net (S D) wrote:
>
> [..]
>
>> Are colonial
>> powers bad guys? Is Nixon? Capitalism? Communism?
>
> Yes.
>
> ObOnTopic: _Das Boot_. More subtlely... _The Front_. _The Front_ is one
> of
> my favorite "quiet" films, but it oh so neatly avoids giving away just how
> foul communism really was.
> alt.flame Special Forces
>
I wonder if it was the job of such a film to portray an attack or
defence of communism.
What the film does, as I remember, is to cast a new light on the
persecution of American scriptwriters for their beliefs or convictions.
I like the film too. Allen plays a very good part, and the direction was
right on.
I notice Ritt directed only 7 more films afterwards.
Stone me.
Dave in Toronto
subject description. (Depends on your ancestry of course) :-)
Dave in Toronto
Steven L.
> Tue Sorensen <soren...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 10 Nov., 21:29, forn...@webtv.net (S D) wrote:
>
> [..]
>
>> Are colonial
>> powers bad guys? Is Nixon? Capitalism? Communism?
>
> Yes.
>
> ObOnTopic: _Das Boot_. More subtlely... _The Front_. _The Front_ is one of
> my favorite "quiet" films, but it oh so neatly avoids giving away just how
> foul communism really was.
Others:
"The Godfather" parts I, II, and III
"Triumph of the Will"
"Three Came Home"
"Gorky Park"
"Fatherland" (the hero wears a black uniform with a swastika armband)
"Schindler's List" (Oskar Schlindler was a first-class s.o.b.)
and parts of "Tora Tora Tora!"
Investor612
I feel the same way about films like ZULU and BLACK HAWK DOWN. Don't
get me wrong, I have nothing but the very greatest admiration for the
amazing heroism of the Brits and Americans who stood their ground
against such incredible numbers, but I also respect the Africans who
watched thousands of their comrades mown down by superior firepower
and still they kept coming. >>
I can see the empathy for the Zulus, but it's hard for me to find much
in the way of redeeming qualities in the qat crazed hired guns of the
Somali warlords.