Something other than inform 7 or TADS

kerbingamer376

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Oct 3, 2016, 11:20:37 AM10/3/16

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Hi,
I'm trying to write some interactive fiction, but I find inform 7, as a language, too verbose and hard to work with as a result, and I can't for my life figure out how to get TADS to work. Is there a different option for writing interactive fiction, that allows for complex custom scripting?

John W Kennedy

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Oct 3, 2016, 11:42:50 AM10/3/16

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Adventure, and a complete clone of the original mainframe Zork, were
written in Fortran. Even modern dialects of COBOL can do it, with
enough effort. Wiser choices might be Java or Swift. If you don't mind
the computational overhead, I suppose you could use JavaScript or Ruby.

But the entire point of Inform and TADS is to make things easier. A lot
easier. If you're finding them too difficult, then the odds
overwhelmingly favor the hypothesis that you're trying to run before
you learn to walk.

--
John W Kennedy
"Sweet, was Christ crucified to create this chat?"
-- Charles Williams. "Judgement at Chelmsford"

kerbingamer376

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Oct 3, 2016, 12:07:05 PM10/3/16

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The reason I find inform too difficult is verbose syntax and complicated, english-like grammar. The reason why TADS is so difficult is I can never get the compiler to work.

John W Kennedy

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Oct 3, 2016, 7:30:40 PM10/3/16

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It would help if you would say something specific and definite. Is
English not your native language? Was your mother frightened by a COBOL
manual when she was pregnant with you? Are you running some sort of
exotic or antique operating system that is almost-but-not-quite
supported by TADS? I know nothing of TADS, myself, but know that many
people have used it. What programming languages do you know? What
natural languages do you know?

--
John W Kennedy
"Never try to take over the international economy based on a radical
feminist agenda if you're not sure your leader isn't a transvestite."
-- David Misch: "She-Spies", "While You Were Out"

kerbingamer376

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Oct 4, 2016, 2:39:08 AM10/4/16

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Programming languages: C,Python,JS,Java,a bunch of others
Natural languages: English (native language)

The reason why the TADS compiler won't work is it complains it can't find "en_us.h"

John W Kennedy

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Oct 4, 2016, 10:26:50 AM10/4/16

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Do you have the Workbench? That is recommended.

If you are using t3make, you need to specify the -I flag with the
directory that the TADS include files are in.

--
John W Kennedy
"Those in the seat of power oft forget their failings and seek only the
obeisance of others! Thus is bad government born! Hold in your heart
that you and the people are one, human beings all, and good government
shall arise of its own accord! Such is the path of virtue!"
-- Kazuo Koike. "Lone Wolf and Cub: Thirteen Strings" (tr. Dana Lewis)

John Menichelli

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Oct 4, 2016, 8:57:41 PM10/4/16

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On Monday, October 3, 2016 at 8:20:37 AM UTC-7, kerbingamer376 wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm trying to write some interactive fiction, but I find inform 7, as a language, too verbose and hard to work with as a result, and I can't for my life figure out how to get TADS to work. Is there a different option for writing interactive fiction, that allows for complex custom scripting?

How about Inform 6? It has a more traditional C-like syntax.

kerbingamer376

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Oct 5, 2016, 3:02:24 AM10/5/16

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I can't use the workbench as I am on arch linux, and I have asked the person who packaged TADS about this, and I'm waiting for a response.

kerbingamer376

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Oct 5, 2016, 3:03:10 AM10/5/16

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Where can I find a good tutorial on inform 6?

Peter Pears

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Oct 5, 2016, 5:38:15 AM10/5/16

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> Where can I find a good tutorial on inform 6?

Well, it's not a tutorial, but the DM4 is probably your best (and only?) bet:

http://inform-fiction.org/manual/

You may also want to check out Inform School:

http://ifdb.tads.org/viewgame?id=a1f3kx4uzq4fdfm8

Adam Thornton

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Oct 5, 2016, 10:27:25 AM10/5/16

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In article <adb2cf51-cedf-4791...@googlegroups.com>,

kerbingamer376 <marti...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Where can I find a good tutorial on inform 6?

http://bfy.tw/82YD

The Designer's Manual is still the gold standard.

http://inform-fiction.org/manual/DM4.pdf

Adam

Richard Bos

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Oct 9, 2016, 6:19:40 AM10/9/16

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kerbingamer376 <marti...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to write some interactive fiction, but I find inform 7, as a lan=
> guage, too verbose and hard to work with as a result, and I can't for my li=
> fe figure out how to get TADS to work. Is there a different option for writ=

> ing interactive fiction, that allows for complex custom scripting?

Inform 6 still exists... it's even being maintained.

Richard

Richard Bos

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Oct 9, 2016, 6:22:08 AM10/9/16

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More than that. I'd recommend at least the design section to users of
other IF languages as well, and with DM4 in hand I'd even recommend
Inform 6 as an early (if not necessarily first) language for someone
learning programming in general. It really is that good, IMO.

Richard

namekuseijin

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Oct 13, 2016, 1:26:38 PM10/13/16

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how about plain html and javascript? or twine?

really, if you go with a general purpose language, all you'll end up with after much hardwork is a subpar parser engine lacking a lot of the sophistication and world model of Inform and Tads. much easier just quit whining and learn them...

FizzyP

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Oct 14, 2016, 11:42:36 AM10/14/16

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On Thursday, October 13, 2016 at 11:26:38 AM UTC-6, namekuseijin wrote:
> how about plain html and javascript? or twine?
>
> really, if you go with a general purpose language, all you'll end up with after much hardwork is a subpar parser engine lacking a lot of the sophistication and world model of Inform and Tads. much easier just quit whining and learn them...

I agree 100%. I'm a software developer and I can assure you starting from scratch is going to be orders of magnitude harder. Inform 7 is not that hard to learn. I'm sure Inform 6 is fine too. Learning a general purpose programming language is going to bring all sorts of things into play that are interesting but not directly. Computer programming in general can have a sort of infuriating side to it until you get some practice.

Douglas Miles

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Oct 14, 2016, 12:21:49 PM10/14/16

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On Monday, October 3, 2016 at 8:20:37 AM UTC-7, kerbingamer376 wrote:

> Hi,
> I'm trying to write some interactive fiction, but I find inform 7, as a language, too verbose and hard to work with as a result, and I can't for my life figure out how to get TADS to work. Is there a different option for writing interactive fiction, that allows for complex custom scripting?

Hi, I made a new interactive fiction engine called PrologMUD.

http://www.intfiction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=13717

It is written in a combo of Defeasible HOPL (Higher Order Predicate Logic) as well as SWI-Prolog. The "Defeasible Logic" comes from that fact that some rules of how the world works can defeat other rules.

It uses KIF files (S-Expressions)

https://github.com/ontologyportal/sumo/blob/master/emotion.kif#L84-L202

synonymously with.. (P-expressions)

https://github.com/TeamSPoon/PrologMUD/blob/master/pack/prologmud/prolog/prologmud/mud_builtin.pfc.pl

and Example of the programing:

https://github.com/TeamSPoon/PrologMUD/blob/master/pack/prologmud/prolog/prologmud/vworld/world_2d.pl#L222-L244

World:

https://github.com/TeamSPoon/PrologMUD/blob/master/pack/prologmud/games/src_game_nani/objs_misc_household.pfc.pl

https://github.com/TeamSPoon/PrologMUD/blob/master/pack/prologmud/games/src_game_startrek/startrek.all.pfc.pl

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUNwYHBWJwQ&index=4&list=PLrsRTzxpFRazrP0XawTjy76P0FQInNWm0

Glenn Hutchings

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Oct 23, 2016, 11:16:47 AM10/23/16

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On 05/10/16 08:02, kerbingamer376 wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 5, 2016 at 1:57:41 AM UTC+1, John Menichelli wrote:
>> On Monday, October 3, 2016 at 8:20:37 AM UTC-7, kerbingamer376 wrote:
>>> Hi,

>>> I'm trying to write some interactive fiction, but I find inform 7, as a language, ...

>>
>> How about Inform 6? It has a more traditional C-like syntax.
> Where can I find a good tutorial on inform 6?
>

https://inform-beginners-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/

rpresser

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Oct 23, 2016, 4:21:57 PM10/23/16

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On Friday, October 14, 2016 at 12:21:49 PM UTC-4, Douglas Miles
wrote:

> On Monday, October 3, 2016 at 8:20:37 AM UTC-7, kerbingamer376
> wrote:
> > Hi, I'm trying to write some interactive fiction, but I find
> > inform 7, as a language, too verbose and hard to work with as a
> > result, and I can't for my life figure out how to get TADS to
> > work. Is there a different option for writing interactive
> > fiction, that allows for complex custom scripting?
>
> Hi, I made a new interactive fiction engine called PrologMUD.
>
> http://www.intfiction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=13717
>
> It is written in a combo of Defeasible HOPL (Higher Order
> Predicate Logic) as well as SWI-Prolog. The "Defeasible Logic"
> comes from that fact that some rules of how the world works can
> defeat other rules.

It seems like it could be an interesting system but it needs a lot
of handholding. If one isn't already a Prolog expert, why would one
choose this system?

David Griffith

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Oct 24, 2016, 8:50:33 AM10/24/16

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An update to the IBG is underway. See https://github.com/i6/ibg.

--
David Griffith
davidmy...@acm.org <--- Put my last name where it belongs

Richard Bos

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Oct 30, 2016, 8:21:36 AM10/30/16

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rpresser <rpre...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Friday, October 14, 2016 at 12:21:49 PM UTC-4, Douglas Miles

> > Hi, I made a new interactive fiction engine called PrologMUD.
> >
> > http://www.intfiction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=13717
> >
> > It is written in a combo of Defeasible HOPL (Higher Order
> > Predicate Logic) as well as SWI-Prolog. The "Defeasible Logic"
> > comes from that fact that some rules of how the world works can
> > defeat other rules.
>
> It seems like it could be an interesting system but it needs a lot
> of handholding. If one isn't already a Prolog expert, why would one
> choose this system?

I haven't looked at this system in particular, but I've played with
Prolog, and it did strike me as well that its predicate logic would be
an interesting one to use for, in particular, the input pattern matching
needed to parse IF commands. I never took it any further, though, so I
can't say whether I was right, let alone whether Douglas is.

Richard

Adam Thornton

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Nov 1, 2016, 8:16:06 PM11/1/16

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In article <5815e564...@news.xs4all.nl>,

Richard Bos <rl...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>rpresser <rpre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Friday, October 14, 2016 at 12:21:49 PM UTC-4, Douglas Miles
>> > Hi, I made a new interactive fiction engine called PrologMUD.

>I haven't looked at this system in particular, but I've played with
>Prolog, and it did strike me as well that its predicate logic would be
>an interesting one to use for, in particular, the input pattern matching
>needed to parse IF commands. I never took it any further, though, so I
>can't say whether I was right, let alone whether Douglas is.

Waaaaay back in the mid-nineties, Phil Goetz did some IF stuff in
Prolog.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.arts.int-fiction/sHeNwmq05mM

I think I recall a game for the Apple II (so likely from the 80s?) that
he did that used Prolog.

Adam