The Bane of Life: [m2d] Investigator mode: Clueless

[oxtail]

[m2d] I'm not even sure what happened.

I'm not even sure why I'm suffering so much. There are much to be
grateful. But there is this nagging suspicion that I was railroaded. I
wonder why:

[This is a good place to introduce Dukkha. There are many different ways
to classify all kinds of Dukkha. The usual eight type one might not work
well in this game. Time to research for a better one.]

[{:-])))]

In the game plan, it's all in.

Going all in, desiring to help others,
can be the stuff martyrs are made of.

In order to reach those who suffer most,
one tends to need to suffer even more.

Beneath the bottomless pit are
the everlasting arms.

The railroads to hell are paved
with what are called good intentions.

[Nobody in Particular]

On 2/11/2016 4:00 PM, oxtail wrote:
>
> I'm not even sure why I'm suffering so much.

Maybe this will help your suffering:

Stop trying to project the illusion of a being wise counselor, hoping to
find someone who will genuflect to that illusion of your ego.

Perhaps, even admit to yourself that you're just as clueless as the rest
of us.

[oxtail]

I'm not as clueless you are.
I never pretended to be awakened.
But I have pretty good idea how to get there.
Just too lazy to get there by just sitting.
I might as well enjoy getting there
by pretending to write a computer game.
Why don't you do something you find meaningful
other than being jealous of everyone else?

[Nobody in Particular]

On 2/11/2016 5:55 PM, oxtail wrote:
> Nobody in Particular wrote:
>
>> On 2/11/2016 4:00 PM, oxtail wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not even sure why I'm suffering so much.
>>
>> Maybe this will help your suffering:
>>
>> Stop trying to project the illusion of a being wise counselor, hoping to
>> find someone who will genuflect to that illusion of your ego.
>>
>> Perhaps, even admit to yourself that you're just as clueless as the rest
>> of us.
>
> I'm not as clueless you are.
> I never pretended to be awakened.
> But I have pretty good idea how to get there.

Does it crucially depend on being adored?

> Just too lazy to get there by just sitting.
> I might as well enjoy getting there
> by pretending to write a computer game.

Good for you.
I'm certain you will let us know how it works out.

> Why don't you do something you find meaningful
> other than being jealous of everyone else?

Feel free to ignore me.
Why do you keep reading me?
Still hoping for some sort of praise?

[oxtail]

Compassion.
You might be better off ignored.
But do play my game, please.

[oxtail]

I help myself pretending to try to help others.
Do you suffer at all in your worst moments?
Any idea in how many ways you suffer?

[Nobody in Particular]

Hoping for compassion for your suffering?
That's a completely different situation; perhaps i misjudged.
Tell me more.

[{:-])))]

oxtail wrote and asked me:

>Do you suffer at all in your worst moments?

I suffer usually every day.

In my worst moments the moments last all day.

>Any idea in how many ways you suffer?

In as many ways as there are to not accept
what ever is seen as being less than desired.

There are many ways to wish.
One of them involves two.
Three can be too.

Among the 10k ways to suffer
I can imagine 10k others who are
connected to me in various degrees.

As long as they suffer, I suffer.

From the lab oratory mouse
to the refugees in camps worldwide,
as long as any are not as they would be
if only they had their druthers.

I'd rather the world be other
than how it is when people suffer.

I would not suffer for others
except I do when others suffer.

When I see there are no others
with any self to suffer then suffering
occurs all the same except without
there being any one to suffer.

Aside from me.

[oxtail]

Do you have any reasonably playable
classification of several kinds of Dukkha?

There is this "three patterns" of Dukkha.
CF. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dukkha
These patterns can be viewed as the levels
of sophistication or understanding.
Rather difficult to implement as questions.

I would love to quote some stories of Chan/Seon/Zen encounter,
but they can be too distracting.
For now, I'll be sticking to simple and direct questions
and multiple choice menus.
The players will decide the level
of sophistication they want to play.

[{:-])))]

oxtail wrote:

>Do you have any reasonably playable
>classification of several kinds of Dukkha?

Not that I am aware of.

>There is this "three patterns" of Dukkha.
>CF. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dukkha
>These patterns can be viewed as the levels
>of sophistication or understanding.
>Rather difficult to implement as questions.

Looks complicated.

>I would love to quote some stories of Chan/Seon/Zen encounter,
>but they can be too distracting.
>For now, I'll be sticking to simple and direct questions
>and multiple choice menus.
>The players will decide the level
>of sophistication they want to play.

Multiple choice sounds good to me.

1. Are you suffering?
a. No.
b. Yes.

If the answer to 1 is a,
then the game is over.

If the answer is b,
then proceed to question 2.

2. Do you want your suffering to end?
a. No.
b. Yes.

If no, then, game over.
If yes, then, go to 3.

3. What type do you have?
a. Dukkha-dukkha (dukkha as ordinary suffering)
b. Viparinama-dukkha (dukkha as produced by change)
c. Samkhara-dukkha (dukkha of conditioned states)

4. Visit websites for more guidance.

[oxtail]

That's the idea.
But the game should be playable
without learning technical jargons.
And when I keep on saying multiple choice menus,
I really mean it.
The minimum is three choices and
the maximum is about seven.
But we need to be acutely aware of the combinatorial explosion
unless we are willing to spend thousands of years on the game.
At most, this investigation of Dukkha should at most
result in one of "108 Defilements of Buddhism".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/108_(number)#Buddhism
But that is just the outer limit of ramification,
not the guideline for the game.
I'm not going for the comprehensiveness;
but just for a reasonable coverage of human condition.

[{:-])))]

oxtail wrote:

> ... the game should be playable
>without learning technical jargons.

It ought not take too much work to play it.

>And when I keep on saying multiple choice menus,
>I really mean it.
>The minimum is three choices and
>the maximum is about seven.

Three adds an extra value
to the two I had in mind.

>But we need to be acutely aware of the combinatorial explosion
>unless we are willing to spend thousands of years on the game.
>At most, this investigation of Dukkha should at most
>result in one of "108 Defilements of Buddhism".
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/108_(number)#Buddhism
>But that is just the outer limit of ramification,
>not the guideline for the game.
>I'm not going for the comprehensiveness;
>but just for a reasonable coverage of human condition.

People can be reasonable at times
when conditions are seen to be within control.

Player presses Play.
Guru appears on screen.

Options are presented.

1. Why are you here?
a. To suffer.
b. To stop suffering.
c. I was looking for a game.

If 1.a. is selected, the Player is redirected
back to the Why are you here? screen.

If 1.b. is selected, the Player is redirected
back to the Why are you here? screen.

If 1.c. is selected, the Player is redirected
back to the Why are you here? screen.

After going through 108 iterations
of any combination of selections, the Player is
given an opportunity to Rate the Game.

2. Rate the Game.
a. Causes suffering.
b. Stops suffering.
c. Stupid game.

It might be nice to include a way
to short-cut the process.

Expecting people to play 108 rounds
is quite an expectation to have
and may result in suffering
no result in the process.

[oxtail]

Even income tax programs would be more interesting than that.
The better way would be to collect several sensational crime stories
and ask questions about them and make players to guess the motives.
What I'm trying to do is to teach the technology of Buddhism
without using any of the technical terms or forcing any particular world
view on players.

[{:-])))]

oxtail wrote:

>What I'm trying to do is to teach the technology of Buddhism
>without using any of the technical terms or forcing any particular world
>view on players.

How would you describe that technology?

Let's say, for example, I am suffering
because I am out of work, homeless and
have no money.

[oxtail]

Simple.
Go out and find a happy homeless man.

[{:-])))]

Game over.

[oxtail]

The game just started.

[{:-])))]

Okay, I found a happy homeless man.

Now what. Using Buddhism tech.

[oxtail]

You are probably mistaken.
You are not supposed to be able to do it.
But if you do, learn from him.
Start asking him questions.
Basically you are going back to the investigator mode
and bypass the first choice of [m2d1] "suffering from acute pains",
mental or physical, out of the three levels of suffering.
Go to [m2d2].

I'm still working on the ordinary words phrasing
of the three choices in [m2d].
BTW this detour is a part of [m2a].

[{:-])))]

oxtail wrote:
> {:-]))) wrote:
>>>
>>>> oxtail wrote:
>>>>> {:-]))) wrote:
>>>>>> oxtail wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What I'm trying to do is to teach the technology of Buddhism without
>>>>>>>using any of the technical terms or forcing any particular world
>>>>>>>view on players.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How would you describe that technology?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let's say, for example, I am suffering because I am out of work,
>>>>>> homeless and have no money.
>>>>>
>>>>>Simple.
>>>>>Go out and find a happy homeless man.
>>

>> Okay, I found a happy homeless man.
>>
>> Now what. Using Buddhism tech.
>
>You are probably mistaken.
>You are not supposed to be able to do it.

I'm not supposed to be able to do what?
Find a happy homeless man?
Or stop suffering?

>But if you do, learn from him.
>Start asking him questions.

I'd ask him (the game/you)
what is the secret? How can I be happy?
How can I stop suffering?

I want a job, a home and money.
Not having them causes me to suffer.

Using Buddhist technology, in this game,
my expectation is to find answers.

>Basically you are going back to the investigator mode
>and bypass the first choice of [m2d1] "suffering from acute pains",
>mental or physical, out of the three levels of suffering.
>Go to [m2d2].

I have forgotten what that is.

>I'm still working on the ordinary words phrasing
>of the three choices in [m2d].
>BTW this detour is a part of [m2a].

Okay.

Maybe get back to me later then,
when you (the happy homeless man)
can tell me more.

[oxtail]

You got it.
I expect to spend many months
just trying to finish the basic structure of the game.