How to increase the popularity of comic books: magazines
Mark Moore
The Waldenbooks in the mall in Tampa has a comic rack and a bookcase
devoted to TPBs. The Waldenbooks in my local mall has no comic books,
just manga.
While I understand that some stores may not carry comic books due to
low demand, what if DC did this:
1) Change the three monthly Superman titles to one monthly 66-page
magazine with larger pages. Have the writers from the three
Super-books rotate on a monthly basis. Each story arc could be told in
one month instead of a few.
2) Do the same for Batman. There are four monthly titles, I think, so
it could be an 88-page magazine.
3) Do a 22-page Wonder Woman magazine every month (or however often is
required) to keep the rights.
4) Do a 66-page JLA magazine every three months.
5) Axe Superman/Batman and keep the guest appearances in the two
characters' magazines - with ads announcing them on the front cover,
of course.
6) Sell these magazines in the magazine racks alongside stuff like
"Heavy Metal", "Dungeon", and "Dragon".
Mark
Glenn Simpson
I don't think they should move exclusively to this format, but I do
think a thick $10 book on the magazine rack, full of reprints of
Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman stories, with a blurb in there on
how to find comic book stores, would be a good thing.
That way Trade Paperbacks would be covering bookstores, this Magazine
format would cover magazine racks, and the regular comics would still
be available.
Ken from Chicago
sailo...@naturecoast.net says...
> I know that comic books should be sold in bookstores - ALL bookstores.
> The Waldenbooks in the mall in Tampa has a comic rack and a bookcase
> devoted to TPBs. The Waldenbooks in my local mall has no comic books,
> just manga.
>
> While I understand that some stores may not carry comic books due to
> low demand, what if DC did this:
>
> 1) Change the three monthly Superman titles to one monthly 66-page
> magazine with larger pages. Have the writers from the three
> Super-books rotate on a monthly basis. Each story arc could be told in
> one month instead of a few.
>
> 2) Do the same for Batman. There are four monthly titles, I think, so
> it could be an 88-page magazine.
Essentially a TPB.
> 3) Do a 22-page Wonder Woman magazine every month (or however often is
> required) to keep the rights.
>
> 4) Do a 66-page JLA magazine every three months.
>
> 5) Axe Superman/Batman and keep the guest appearances in the two
> characters' magazines - with ads announcing them on the front cover,
> of course.
>
> 6) Sell these magazines in the magazine racks alongside stuff like
> "Heavy Metal", "Dungeon", and "Dragon".
>
>
> Mark
>
I just don't see much of a new audience getting hooked on stories that
take 6 months--or at least are published over 6 months. Sure, us current
comic book fans have already been brain damaged, but I don't see a new
audience getting hooked.
I think TPBs / GNs-only is the way the market survives.
-- Ken from Chicago
BlackJet76
There not going to do that unless they can charge about $10 for the magazine.
Why should they sell the same amount of product, i.e. 88 pages, for a smaller
price? More might by it if the price is lower but in the end the final profits
might be similiar as they are now with the high price.
<< 6) Sell these magazines in the magazine racks alongside stuff like
"Heavy Metal", "Dungeon", and "Dragon". >><BR><BR>
Bad idea. They do this at my local Barnes and Nobel and all the comics look
like they were thumbed threw by a six year old. All bent and damanged by the
casual fan
R. Tang
BlackJet76 <black...@aol.com> wrote:
><< 2) Do the same for Batman. There are four monthly titles, I think, so
>it could be an 88-page magazine. >><BR><BR>
>
>There not going to do that unless they can charge about $10 for the magazine.
>Why should they sell the same amount of product, i.e. 88 pages, for a smaller
>price? More might by it if the price is lower but in the end the final profits
>might be similiar as they are now with the high price.
Pricing and packaging might be key. Very recent 3-5 parters under
one cover for about $2-3 less than the monthlies might be appealing,
especially since that puts them in the upper part of the magazine rate.
And while profits might be similar, your distrbution would be much
wider, and would enable you to charge higher ad rates and leverage other
things.
><< 6) Sell these magazines in the magazine racks alongside stuff like
>"Heavy Metal", "Dungeon", and "Dragon". >><BR><BR>
>
>Bad idea. They do this at my local Barnes and Nobel and all the comics look
>like they were thumbed threw by a six year old. All bent and damanged by the
>casual fan
So? This market is aimed at the casual fan, who are less senstive
to comic damage.
--
-
-Roger Tang, gwan...@u.washington.edu, Artistic Director PC Theatre
- Editor, Asian American Theatre Revue [NEW URL][Yes, it IS new]
- http://www.aatrevue.com
Dan McEwen
news:20040828125816...@mb-m26.aol.com:
> << 2) Do the same for Batman. There are four monthly titles, I think,
> so it could be an 88-page magazine. >><BR><BR>
>
> There not going to do that unless they can charge about $10 for the
> magazine. Why should they sell the same amount of product, i.e. 88
> pages, for a smaller price? More might by it if the price is lower but
> in the end the final profits might be similiar as they are now with
> the high price.
No, but they could do something like what was done with the Ultimate
books early on and create "Superman Magazine" that features recent
stories in one collection but _not_ as a TPB or digest.
> << 6) Sell these magazines in the magazine racks alongside stuff like
> "Heavy Metal", "Dungeon", and "Dragon". >><BR><BR>
>
> Bad idea. They do this at my local Barnes and Nobel and all the comics
> look like they were thumbed threw by a six year old. All bent and
> damanged by the casual fan
I didn't notice this problem with the aforementioned Ultimate Magazine.
In fact, it was UM that brought be back into comics after a few years
away.
Robert Carnegie
m26.aol.com>, BlackJet76 <black...@aol.com> writes
So put 'em in sealed plastic bags, so they don't get damaged in
the store :-)
Robert Carnegie at home, rja.ca...@excite.com at large
--
I am fully aware I may regret this in the morning.
Glenn Simpson
You can throw in a CD and everything!
BlackJet76
And where do the serious fans go when the Barnes and Noble's puts the local
comic shop out of business?
Duggy
> I know that comic books should be sold in bookstores - ALL bookstores.
> The Waldenbooks in the mall in Tampa has a comic rack and a bookcase
> devoted to TPBs. The Waldenbooks in my local mall has no comic books,
> just manga.
> While I understand that some stores may not carry comic books due to
> low demand, what if DC did this:
> 1) Change the three monthly Superman titles to one monthly 66-page
> magazine with larger pages. Have the writers from the three
> Super-books rotate on a monthly basis. Each story arc could be told in
> one month instead of a few.
- Some stories need to be less... way less... than 66 pages. I like
22 - 24 page stories, and these shorter punchier stories disappear
underthis scheme.
- Some stories need to be more than 66 pages. A good 4 issue arc is a
good 88 page story. This doesn't quite work under this scheme.
- If I read Superman because I like the writer/artist team more than
the Action/AoS team now, under your scheme what do I do? Skip every 2
months of comics?
- If I only get one Superman comic a month for financial reasons,
under this scheme I'm forced to buy 3... or skip every third month.
I think the idea sucks.
> 2) Do the same for Batman. There are four monthly titles, I think, so
> it could be an 88-page magazine.
Even worse.
> 3) Do a 22-page Wonder Woman magazine every month (or however often is
> required) to keep the rights.
There isn't a requirement anymore, is there?
> 4) Do a 66-page JLA magazine every three months.
Once every three months? I'd rather wait 6 for the trade.
The reason I still by singles is a enjoy getting regular small doses
of a character. Waiting months at a time isn't what I'm after.
> 5) Axe Superman/Batman and keep the guest appearances in the two
> characters' magazines - with ads announcing them on the front cover,
> of course.
Why? It's doing damn well... and you want to axe it?
Any other comics making money you want to get rid of?
> 6) Sell these magazines in the magazine racks alongside stuff like
> "Heavy Metal", "Dungeon", and "Dragon".
Magazine sized or comics sized?
Considering how successful those mags are, you'd be better picking
other examples.
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
> I just don't see much of a new audience getting hooked on stories that
> take 6 months--or at least are published over 6 months. Sure, us current
> comic book fans have already been brain damaged, but I don't see a new
> audience getting hooked.
> I think TPBs / GNs-only is the way the market survives.
I think that TPC, OGN and singles are ways in which the market will
continue to survive.
===
= DUG.
===
Mark Moore
> sailo...@naturecoast.net (Mark Moore) wrote:
> > I know that comic books should be sold in bookstores - ALL bookstores.
> > The Waldenbooks in the mall in Tampa has a comic rack and a bookcase
> > devoted to TPBs. The Waldenbooks in my local mall has no comic books,
> > just manga.
>
> > While I understand that some stores may not carry comic books due to
> > low demand, what if DC did this:
>
> > 1) Change the three monthly Superman titles to one monthly 66-page
> > magazine with larger pages. Have the writers from the three
> > Super-books rotate on a monthly basis. Each story arc could be told in
> > one month instead of a few.
>
> - Some stories need to be less... way less... than 66 pages. I like
> 22 - 24 page stories, and these shorter punchier stories disappear
> underthis scheme.
I never said that an issue of the magazine couldn't contain three
22-page stories - or a 22-page story and a 44-page story. I merely
said that a 3-part story arc could be told in one month instead of
three.
> - Some stories need to be more than 66 pages. A good 4 issue arc is a
> good 88 page story. This doesn't quite work under this scheme.
I'm not sure how arcs would be handled. It would probably be better to
do 3 parts in one month and then wait three months to
continue/conclude it.
I know it's messy, but it makes more sense than 3 or 4 different story
arcs going on every month.
> - If I read Superman because I like the writer/artist team more than
> the Action/AoS team now, under your scheme what do I do? Skip every 2
> months of comics?
Yes. You'd still be getting the same amount of story in the end, just
less frequently and in larger chunks.
> - If I only get one Superman comic a month for financial reasons,
> under this scheme I'm forced to buy 3... or skip every third month.
At around $7.50 per magazine, you'd still be paying the same amount of
money, just more at once and not as often.
Which would be better: trying to save $2.50 every month for SUPERMAN
or trying to save $8 only once every three months?
> > 3) Do a 22-page Wonder Woman magazine every month (or however often is
> > required) to keep the rights.
>
> There isn't a requirement anymore, is there?
I dunno. Anyone have an answer to that?
> > 4) Do a 66-page JLA magazine every three months.
>
> Once every three months? I'd rather wait 6 for the trade.
So, buy two issues and read them back-to-back.
> The reason I still by singles is a enjoy getting regular small doses
> of a character. Waiting months at a time isn't what I'm after.
So, takes breaks and read 22 pages at a time.
> > 5) Axe Superman/Batman and keep the guest appearances in the two
> > characters' magazines - with ads announcing them on the front cover,
> > of course.
>
> Why? It's doing damn well... and you want to axe it?
Define "damn well". Which would be better: 200,000 copies of
SUPERMAN/BATMAN in comic shops only or 1,000,000 copies of SUPERMAN
MAGAZINE with special guess appearance by Batman in comic shops,
bookstores, retail stores, and supermarkets?
> > 6) Sell these magazines in the magazine racks alongside stuff like
> > "Heavy Metal", "Dungeon", and "Dragon".
>
> Magazine sized or comics sized?
I did mention "larger pages" up above. Take a guess.
Mark
Mark Moore
> > the store :-)
>
Good idea. The CD could include:
the magazine's artwork in every stage of completion
video interviews with the creative team
DC TV and movie trailers
Anything else?
Mark
Selaboc
> > 1) Change the three monthly Superman titles to one monthly 66-page
> > magazine with larger pages. Have the writers from the three
> > Super-books rotate on a monthly basis. Each story arc could be told in
> > one month instead of a few.
>
> - Some stories need to be less... way less... than 66 pages. I like
> 22 - 24 page stories, and these shorter punchier stories disappear
> underthis scheme.
Not necessarily. Just because the book is 66 pages of story does not
mean that all 66 pages need to be one story. Way back in the day (the
1970s) Marvel had several magazine sized comics (Conan, Savage Tales
with Ka-zar, Planet of the Apes, etc). Most issues had more than one
story in them and sometimes had stories that continued in the next
issue.
> - Some stories need to be more than 66 pages. A good 4 issue arc is a
> good 88 page story. This doesn't quite work under this scheme.
Again, not all 66 pages need to be devoted to one story. In your
example, One Issue could have two stories, a 22 pages and a 44 page
part 1 of your 88 page story, the next issue would have the 44 page
part 2 and another 22 page story.
> - If I read Superman because I like the writer/artist team more than
> the Action/AoS team now, under your scheme what do I do? Skip every 2
> months of comics?
The casual reader (the market these books are aimed at) don't really
pay attention to writer/atists as much as you or I might. As for waht
do you do? well what do you do when a series you read features a
fill-in writer artist? Do you skip that month or months (if the fill
in aritist is on for a couple of months to give the regular artists a
breather)? Well, there's your answer.
> - If I only get one Superman comic a month for financial reasons,
> under this scheme I'm forced to buy 3... or skip every third month.
You're not forced to buy anything. You choose to buy or not to buy. If
this scheme doesn't work for you, don't buy it.
> I think the idea sucks.
I think the idea has possibilities. I also don't think it will work in
the current marketplace (IIRC the similiar Ultimate magainze died a
quick death)
> > 6) Sell these magazines in the magazine racks alongside stuff like
> > "Heavy Metal", "Dungeon", and "Dragon".
>
> Magazine sized or comics sized?
I'm assuming he means magazine sized, otherwise they wouldn't get
racked alongside those magazine he listes.
> Considering how successful those mags are, you'd be better picking
> other examples.
I'm guessing he picked those because 1) there are multiple comics each
month for each character (Batman/Superman) and he'd personally like to
see them paired down to one magazine each. and 2) those are the "big
guns" and thus the ones most likely to sell to the potential untapped
"casual" reader in the Magainze market.
I think a magainze sized comic for the casual market has possibilites,
but I don't think moving current comics into it is the way to do it. A
better bet would probably have been to take a property like Smallville
or the Justice League Adventures (or other Cartoon based property) and
had started that as a comic/magazine - IE magazine sized with both
comic stories and magazine content. And even at that I don't know that
it would work to well in the current newstand marketplace.
Robert Carnegie
>, Mark Moore <sailo...@naturecoast.net> writes
Signs up your computer to AOL. And upgrades its DRM while you
play the movie trailer.
I think you and I are in different universes, here...
Robert Carnegie at home, rja.ca...@excite.com at large
The Babaloughesian
"BlackJet76" <black...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040830023158...@mb-m20.aol.com...
They'll go to Barnes and Noble too if they want their comics badly enough.
And given that they call themselves "serious fans", many of them are
probably the sort of die-hard addicts who'll do that sort of thing.
Kevin Robinson
> In article <48d3c1d3.0408...@posting.google.com
> >, Mark Moore <sailo...@naturecoast.net> writes
> >glenns...@yahoo.com (Glenn Simpson) wrote in message
> >news:<f674a38c.04082...@posting.google.com>...
> >> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:<yx0nA2A1...@redjac.demon.co.uk>...
> >> > So put 'em in sealed plastic bags, so they don't get damaged in
> >> > the store :-)
> >>
> >> You can throw in a CD and everything!
> >
> >Good idea. The CD could include:
> >
> >the magazine's artwork in every stage of completion
> >
> >video interviews with the creative team
> >
> >DC TV and movie trailers
> >
> >Anything else?
>
> Signs up your computer to AOL. And upgrades its DRM while you
> play the movie trailer.
Yuck, blecchh, ptooie!
> I think you and I are in different universes, here...
Previews of video games, some based on the comics.
Partial or even full tracks from new releases on the
Warner record labels, in CD, MP3, or whatever the hot
format is, and even bands' video clips. Special codes
that give you a discount on downloaded music. A
digital version of "Direct Currents" that can be off-
loaded to different platforms. Different stuff every
month.
Kevin
Mark Moore
>
> I think the idea has possibilities. I also don't think it will work in
> the current marketplace (IIRC the similiar Ultimate magainze died a
> quick death)
I'm not familiar with ULTIMATE MAGAZINE. Could you please explain what
it was and why you think it failed?
> I think a magainze sized comic for the casual market has possibilites,
> but I don't think moving current comics into it is the way to do it. A
Yes, there is the problem of the convoluted continuity in the current
comics. Most (if not all) casual readers would be confused and turned
off by it.
> better bet would probably have been to take a property like Smallville
> or the Justice League Adventures (or other Cartoon based property) and
> had started that as a comic/magazine - IE magazine sized with both
> comic stories and magazine content.
How about, instead of basing it on an already existing canon (comic,
TV, etc.), DC creates a magazine canon from scratch?
And instead of building up a very complex, convoluted continuity, the
magazines could tell more self-contained stories that don't conflict
with each other but also aren't very self-referencial.
The question is: Would DC be willing to hire new writers and artists
(or pay writers and arists more) to put out these magazines?
If the profits are good, I think they would. They could even cut
Superman and Batman's comics to 1 per month - with rotating wrtiers
and artists - to give them more time to work on the magazines.
As for magazine content, there could be interviews, previews, and even
prose stories, similar to Jerry Siegel's in SUPERMAN #1.
> comic stories and magazine content. And even at that I don't know that
> it would work to well in the current newstand marketplace.
Why's that?
Mark
Selaboc
> c64...@hotmail.com (Selaboc) wrote in message news:<3c20e9e9.04083...@posting.google.com>...
> > Paul....@jcu.edu.au (Duggy) wrote in message news:<607b1d7a.0408...@posting.google.com>...
> > > I think the idea sucks.
> >
> > I think the idea has possibilities. I also don't think it will work in
> > the current marketplace (IIRC the similiar Ultimate magainze died a
> > quick death)
>
> I'm not familiar with ULTIMATE MAGAZINE. Could you please explain what
> it was and why you think it failed?
It was a Marvel Comics Magazine-sized and newstand distributed version
of the Ultimate line of Comics. IIRC It basically reprinted the
stories in Ultimate Spider-man and Ultimate X-men with some added
articles. Besides being a reprint of recently published comics, I
think it failed because it failed to get decent distribution. (I know
I rarely saw it on the magainze rack at the local Walden's bookstore.
> > I think a magainze sized comic for the casual market has possibilites,
> > but I don't think moving current comics into it is the way to do it. A
>
> Yes, there is the problem of the convoluted continuity in the current
> comics. Most (if not all) casual readers would be confused and turned
> off by it.
I don't think continuity has anything to do with it. The scheme of
collaping several Superman books into one newstand magazine basically
would be an unwarrented gamble on DCs part. they'd be taking 3 or 4
profitable comics and gambling that they could possibly hopefully make
more money selling one magazine to an audience that may or may not be
there.
> > better bet would probably have been to take a property like Smallville
> > or the Justice League Adventures (or other Cartoon based property) and
> > had started that as a comic/magazine - IE magazine sized with both
> > comic stories and magazine content.
>
> How about, instead of basing it on an already existing canon (comic,
> TV, etc.), DC creates a magazine canon from scratch?
I was thinking the existing properties would be a better bet for DC.
The Cartoons and Smallville represent properties that those outside of
the normal comicshop customer already have an interest in. They have
potential crossover appeal.
> And instead of building up a very complex, convoluted continuity, the
> magazines could tell more self-contained stories that don't conflict
> with each other but also aren't very self-referencial.
That was the theory behind the Ultimate line. Which worked well in
Comics form, but didn't catch on too well in the magazine form.
> As for magazine content, there could be interviews, previews, and even
> prose stories, similar to Jerry Siegel's in SUPERMAN #1.
Which is why I think Smallville would have been a good candidate for a
magazine sized publishcation, as there would be plenty of content they
could do on the show and it's stars (which the smallville comic does,
but since it's a comic, it obviously isn't being distributed on the
Magazine racks).
Another possiblity I've thought of would be a "DC Jump" type anthology
magazine sort of along the lines of Viz's Shonen Jump only with DC's
Cartoon properties (Justice League, Batman Adventures, Teen Titans Go,
etc) since Shonen Jump seems to be doing well on the newstands and a
long of it's line up consists of manga versions of Anime that can be
found on TV (Dragonball, Yu Yu Hakusho, Yu-Gi-Oh).
Johanna Draper Carlson
> I'm not familiar with ULTIMATE MAGAZINE. Could you please explain what
> it was and why you think it failed?
It reprinted several stories from the Ultimate comics in a magazine
format.
I think it failed because while slightly bigger than a comic, it wasn't
really magazine-sized, so many places racked it with the comics, which
completely missed the point. It also wasn't very well done -- although
it promised additional articles and such, most of the additional
material was a minimal amount of not-very-good filler.
It didn't completely follow through on the idea, in other words.
--
Johanna Draper Carlson
Reviews of Comics Worth Reading -- http://www.comicsworthreading.com
Blogging at http://www.comicsworthreading.com/blog/cwr.html
Johanna Draper Carlson
> I was thinking the existing properties would be a better bet for DC.
I was told that the only reason Superman/Batman Magazine was ended was
because the publisher was bought by Marvel, not because it was
unsuccessful. In fact, it kept running in England for many issues after
it stopped here.
Duggy
> Paul....@jcu.edu.au (Duggy) wrote:
> > > 1) Change the three monthly Superman titles to one monthly 66-page
> > > magazine with larger pages. Have the writers from the three
> > > Super-books rotate on a monthly basis. Each story arc could be told in
> > > one month instead of a few.
> > - Some stories need to be less... way less... than 66 pages. I like
> > 22 - 24 page stories, and these shorter punchier stories disappear
> > underthis scheme
> 22-page stories - or a 22-page story and a 44-page story. I merely
> said that a 3-part story arc could be told in one month instead of
> three.
What does "Each story arc could be told in one month" mean then? Too
me it implies that each month contains a single 66 page atory arc and
that no arc goes more than 66 pages.
If that's not what you meant, perhaps there's something wrong with
they way you said things.
> > - Some stories need to be more than 66 pages. A good 4 issue arc is a
> > good 88 page story. This doesn't quite work under this scheme.
> I'm not sure how arcs would be handled. It would probably be better to
> do 3 parts in one month and then wait three months to
> continue/conclude it.
And 4 issue arcs? Or 5?
6 could be done over 2 months... do all arcs have to be divisible by
3?
> I know it's messy, but it makes more sense than 3 or 4 different story
> arcs going on every month.
Why? Even a moron can tell the difference between the words "Action
Comics", "The Adventures of Superman" and "Superman".
What confusion is there?
> > - If I read Superman because I like the writer/artist team more than
> > the Action/AoS team now, under your scheme what do I do? Skip every 2
> > months of comics?
> Yes. You'd still be getting the same amount of story in the end, just
> less frequently and in larger chunks.
But I'd have to get the same comic ever 3 months and remember which
factor of three to get...
"I like writer/artist X, so I have to get issue #1(jan), 4(apr), &
7(jul)"
"I like writer/artist Y, so I have to get issue #2(feb), 5(may), &
8(aug)"
"I like writer/artist Y, so I have to get issue #3(mar), 6(jun), &
9(jul)"
That's *so* much easier than getting Action Comics once a month
because "X" writes/draws it.
> > - If I only get one Superman comic a month for financial reasons,
> > under this scheme I'm forced to buy 3... or skip every third month.
> At around $7.50 per magazine, you'd still be paying the same amount of
> money, just more at once and not as often.
"More at once" is still difficult sometimes.
> Which would be better: trying to save $2.50 every month for SUPERMAN
> or trying to save $8 only once every three months?
Spending $2.50 every second pay rather than saving budgeting $8 every
6.
> > > 4) Do a 66-page JLA magazine every three months.
> > Once every three months? I'd rather wait 6 for the trade.
> So, buy two issues and read them back-to-back.
No. I'd rather a descrete arc in a trade than random collections of
stories.
> > The reason I still by singles is a enjoy getting regular small doses
> > of a character. Waiting months at a time isn't what I'm after.
> So, takes breaks and read 22 pages at a time.
I like getting a dose of a character every month... you're suggesting
I should buy a comic and only read 1/3 a month... yeah right....
Maybe I should read a page a day... only 22 pages an issue... damn
rip-off DC.
> > Why? It's doing damn well... and you want to axe it?
> Define "damn well". Which would be better: 200,000 copies of
> SUPERMAN/BATMAN in comic shops only or 1,000,000 copies of SUPERMAN
> MAGAZINE with special guess appearance by Batman in comic shops,
> bookstores, retail stores, and supermarkets?
If we're making up numbers 2 billion copies of "Superman/Batman" would
be best.
But... Superman/Batman is doing damn well... it's in the top twenty...
you want to cancel a ton twenty comic and assume that increase sales
in a crossover will match that in a existing comic???
To replace a 200k "Superman/Batman" the Superman appearances in Batman
or the Batman appearances in Superman have to sell 200k extra copies
every 3 months.
If "SUPERMAN MAGAZINE with special guess appearance by Batman" isn't
selling 1,200,000 it's a losing that income.
> > > 6) Sell these magazines in the magazine racks alongside stuff like
> > > "Heavy Metal", "Dungeon", and "Dragon".
> > Magazine sized or comics sized?
> I did mention "larger pages" up above. Take a guess.
And these are example of good sales examples?
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
> Not necessarily. Just because the book is 66 pages of story does not
> mean that all 66 pages need to be one story. Way back in the day (the
> 1970s) Marvel had several magazine sized comics (Conan, Savage Tales
> with Ka-zar, Planet of the Apes, etc). Most issues had more than one
> story in them and sometimes had stories that continued in the next
> issue.
And they did so well that they weren't cancelled and all comics are
like that now.
> > - Some stories need to be more than 66 pages. A good 4 issue arc is a
> > good 88 page story. This doesn't quite work under this scheme.
>
> Again, not all 66 pages need to be devoted to one story. In your
> example, One Issue could have two stories, a 22 pages and a 44 page
> part 1 of your 88 page story, the next issue would have the 44 page
> part 2 and another 22 page story.
Wow, you really know how to make a reader feel ripped off.
> > - If I read Superman because I like the writer/artist team more than
> > the Action/AoS team now, under your scheme what do I do? Skip every 2
> > months of comics?
> The casual reader (the market these books are aimed at) don't really
> pay attention to writer/atists as much as you or I might.
Exactly.
While you or I may note the creative team the "casual reader" will
pick up issues and not realise why they don't like 2 in 3 of the
issues as much as the one they like every quarter.
> As for waht
> do you do? well what do you do when a series you read features a
> fill-in writer artist?
For a single, non-reoccuring month at $2.50?
I give the fill-in a chance.
Especially considering I've ordered the title as an ongoing and it
appears on my shelf either way.
If the "fill-in" is $8.00 for 2 months more times than the writer I
like it... and it's really hard to tell the shop owner "only the
issues written by X"... well it's too hard, and I'll drop it.
> Do you skip that month or months (if the fill
> in aritist is on for a couple of months to give the regular artists a
> breather)? Well, there's your answer.
Only for simpletons.
> You're not forced to buy anything. You choose to buy or not to buy. If
> this scheme doesn't work for you, don't buy it.
OK. Under this scheme I'll stop buying DC comics. I know my 12
comics a month won't bankrupt them, but I could find other comic
companies to spend the money on anyway.
> I think the idea has possibilities.
Explain how.
> I also don't think it will work in the current marketplace
Yes. The idea sucks.
> (IIRC the similiar Ultimate magainze died a quick death)
Yes. The idea sucks.
> > Considering how successful those mags are, you'd be better picking
> > other examples.
> I'm guessing he picked those because 1) there are multiple comics each
> month for each character (Batman/Superman) and he'd personally like to
> see them paired down to one magazine each.
No... I mean those mags "Heavy Metal" and "Dungeon".
> and 2) those are the "big
> guns" and thus the ones most likely to sell to the potential untapped
> "casual" reader in the Magainze market.
No, he picked those one because the were obvious. He meant that
*every* DC character a month should be a quarterly magazine and screw
the regular readers.
Wonder Woman was an exception because he thought there was a legal
need to produce a month... which was never the case and certainly
isn't now.
> I think a magainze sized comic for the casual market has possibilites,
That's nice.
> but I don't think moving current comics into it is the way to do it.
I agree.
> A better bet would probably have been to take a property like Smallville
> or the Justice League Adventures (or other Cartoon based property) and
> had started that as a comic/magazine - IE magazine sized with both
> comic stories and magazine content.
Every see the "Harvey" Magazine on shelf? I did... I bought issues...
where is it now?
> And even at that I don't know that
> it would work to well in the current newstand marketplace.
It probably wouldn't. But hey, let's spend a lot of money trying
anyway.
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
> It was a Marvel Comics Magazine-sized and newstand distributed version
> of the Ultimate line of Comics. IIRC It basically reprinted the
> stories in Ultimate Spider-man and Ultimate X-men with some added
> articles. Besides being a reprint of recently published comics, I
> think it failed because it failed to get decent distribution. (I know
> I rarely saw it on the magainze rack at the local Walden's bookstore.
But what you fail to realise is that every magazine ever produced is
instantly distributed to all Walden stores. That's why dumping
"comics" and replacing them with "magazines" is *such* a good idea.
> > Yes, there is the problem of the convoluted continuity in the current
> > comics. Most (if not all) casual readers would be confused and turned
> > off by it.
Yes. That's why I stopped reading comics after only one issue...
> I don't think continuity has anything to do with it. The scheme of
> collaping several Superman books into one newstand magazine basically
> would be an unwarrented gamble on DCs part. they'd be taking 3 or 4
> profitable comics and gambling that they could possibly hopefully make
> more money selling one magazine to an audience that may or may not be
> there.
Oh, it's there. If you don't believe some guy that's just coming up
with pointless random ideas just ask DC who has probably looked at the
market and rejected it...
> I was thinking the existing properties would be a better bet for DC.
> The Cartoons and Smallville represent properties that those outside of
> the normal comicshop customer already have an interest in. They have
> potential crossover appeal.
The Smallville comic is irregular and contains articles... it would be
the best place to start.
===
= DUG.
===
Glenn Simpson
Heh. I was actually trying to be funny, in light of all the complaints
about the recent polybagged "Sky Captain" CDs...
Kevin Robinson
> kev...@my-deja.com (Kevin Robinson) wrote in message news:<3be3f335.04083...@posting.google.com>...
> >
> > Previews of video games, some based on the comics.
> > Partial or even full tracks from new releases on the
> > Warner record labels, in CD, MP3, or whatever the hot
> > format is, and even bands' video clips. Special codes
> > that give you a discount on downloaded music. A
> > digital version of "Direct Currents" that can be off-
> > loaded to different platforms. Different stuff every
> > month.
> >
> > Kevin
>
> Heh. I was actually trying to be funny, in light of all the complaints
> about the recent polybagged "Sky Captain" CDs...
OK, I just checked out NEWSARAMA to see what the fuss was.
In my experience working at a general interest independent
bookstore with a great newsstand, but few pamphlet comics,
we found that add-ons, such as music CDs that came attached to
periodicals such as MIXMAG, had to be kept behind the counter,
with a sign placed near the book to let a purchaser know to
ask for it. Shoplifting was the problem. Even if polybagged
with the monthly issue, curious "yout's" would open the packages
and either liberate the loot or peruse it, damage it, and dump
it any old damn place. Posters from lad-mags like FHM or MAXIM
were especially annoying to clean up after. (Distracting, too!)
Still, the video game and computer shopping mags pack discs
regularly, so it seems doable in general outlets. A separate
"ask for the gadget at the counter" version for comics shops
could be done, I suppose.
Kevin
Robert Carnegie
m>, Kevin Robinson <kev...@my-deja.com> writes
>glenns...@yahoo.com (Glenn Simpson) wrote in message
>news:<f674a38c.04090...@posting.google.com>...
>> kev...@my-deja.com (Kevin Robinson) wrote in message news:<3be3
This is if you're giving something /good/ with the magazine, which
I'm presuming the Sky Captain disc isn't, especially - it's a movie
trailer on disc. Kids, do not get excited about a movie trailer.
THIS IS A COMMERCIAL. COMMERCIALS SUCK.
Another way to tie computer multimedia stuff to a comic is to put
the good stuff on a Web site, and all through the comic are codes
which let you download the stuff. Maybe give the thing a
soundtrack album, one track per page... but no disc to steal.
Selaboc
> c64...@hotmail.com (Selaboc) wrote:
> > Not necessarily. Just because the book is 66 pages of story does not
> > mean that all 66 pages need to be one story. Way back in the day (the
> > 1970s) Marvel had several magazine sized comics (Conan, Savage Tales
> > with Ka-zar, Planet of the Apes, etc). Most issues had more than one
> > story in them and sometimes had stories that continued in the next
> > issue.
>
> And they did so well that they weren't cancelled and all comics are
> like that now.
Talk about simpleton responses. Captain Marvel (The Fawcett Character)
once outsold Superman but it's long since cancelled now. Savage Sword
of Conan sold as a magazine for several DECADES, obviously it wasn't
the failure you seem to think it was.
> > > - Some stories need to be more than 66 pages. A good 4 issue arc is a
> > > good 88 page story. This doesn't quite work under this scheme.
> >
> > Again, not all 66 pages need to be devoted to one story. In your
> > example, One Issue could have two stories, a 22 pages and a 44 page
> > part 1 of your 88 page story, the next issue would have the 44 page
> > part 2 and another 22 page story.
>
> Wow, you really know how to make a reader feel ripped off.
Why would they feel ripped off? they have 66 pages of story every
month.
> > As for waht
> > do you do? well what do you do when a series you read features a
> > fill-in writer artist?
>
> For a single, non-reoccuring month at $2.50?
>
> I give the fill-in a chance.
>
> Especially considering I've ordered the title as an ongoing and it
> appears on my shelf either way.
>
> If the "fill-in" is $8.00 for 2 months more times than the writer I
> like it... and it's really hard to tell the shop owner "only the
> issues written by X"... well it's too hard, and I'll drop it.
But, unlike you, the casual reader doesn't pay attention to who writes
it. They're looking for Superman stories, or Spiderman stories, or
Batman Stories, or whomever the magazine features stories. As long as
they are getting stories of their favorite superhero and as long as
those stories are not incompetently written, they will be satisfied.
And if the stories are impcompetently writter, then they book has
bigger problems.
> > You're not forced to buy anything. You choose to buy or not to buy. If
> > this scheme doesn't work for you, don't buy it.
>
> OK. Under this scheme I'll stop buying DC comics. I know my 12
> comics a month won't bankrupt them, but I could find other comic
> companies to spend the money on anyway.
well, since the theory is that they'd gain more in casual readers than
they'd lose in fanboys like you, I'm sure that's a trade-off they'd go
for assuming the theory is sound.
> > I think the idea has possibilities.
>
> Explain how.
In reaching the casual market that YOU and I do not represent. Sadly,
I don't think the current marketplace is too accomidating of the idea,
and not because YOU personally don't like the idea.
> > > Considering how successful those mags are, you'd be better picking
> > > other examples.
> > I'm guessing he picked those because 1) there are multiple comics each
> > month for each character (Batman/Superman) and he'd personally like to
> > see them paired down to one magazine each.
>
> No... I mean those mags "Heavy Metal" and "Dungeon".
Heavy Metal has been on the stands for decades and continues to be
published, so it must be doing *something* right. Dungeon's been
around a considerable time too (it's somewhere around it's 100th
issue) and still going.
> > A better bet would probably have been to take a property like Smallville
> > or the Justice League Adventures (or other Cartoon based property) and
> > had started that as a comic/magazine - IE magazine sized with both
> > comic stories and magazine content.
>
> Every see the "Harvey" Magazine on shelf? I did... I bought issues...
> where is it now?
I don't know, what was it?
> > And even at that I don't know that
> > it would work to well in the current newstand marketplace.
>
> It probably wouldn't. But hey, let's spend a lot of money trying
> anyway.
A don't know about spending a lot of money, but to expand ones market,
one needs to occasionally spend SOME money trying new things. A
company can not survive forever relying on a shrinking consumer base.
Selaboc
> But what you fail to realise is that every magazine ever produced is
> instantly distributed to all Walden stores. That's why dumping
> "comics" and replacing them with "magazines" is *such* a good idea.
And yet Ultimate Magazine failed. I think what you fail to realize is
that the newstand distribution method brings with it it's own foibles
and there is no such thing as "instantly distributed". I know of
several magazines that I have NEVER seen on the shelves of the local
mall's Waldens that I have seen on the much bigger shelves of the
nearest big-box bookstore (Like Barnes and Nobel).
> > I was thinking the existing properties would be a better bet for DC.
> > The Cartoons and Smallville represent properties that those outside of
> > the normal comicshop customer already have an interest in. They have
> > potential crossover appeal.
>
> The Smallville comic is irregular and contains articles... it would be
> the best place to start.
For once we agree
Duggy
> Paul....@jcu.edu.au (Duggy) wrote:
> > But what you fail to realise is that every magazine ever produced is
> > instantly distributed to all Walden stores. That's why dumping
> > "comics" and replacing them with "magazines" is *such* a good idea.
> And yet Ultimate Magazine failed. I think what you fail to realize is
> that the newstand distribution method brings with it it's own foibles
> and there is no such thing as "instantly distributed". I know of
> several magazines that I have NEVER seen on the shelves of the local
> mall's Waldens that I have seen on the much bigger shelves of the
> nearest big-box bookstore (Like Barnes and Nobel).
And what you fail to realise is that I was using sarcasm.
> > The Smallville comic is irregular and contains articles... it would be
> > the best place to start.
> For once we agree
We've been agreeing all along.
===
= DUG.
===