hand webbing
Bageler
wondering if it means i'd lose typing speed for too long...and also the pain
factor involved - it's considered to be a pressure point, but is it really
all that bad? thnx
bage
Geoffrey
herself one of the most experienced and knowledgable piercers around. She
was the original retail manager for the Gauntlet in LA. At the time of
attempting this piercing she had over 30 piercings at various locations
around her body.
If anyone knows how to heal a pierce it is this person.
Essentially the piercing failed and she had to remove the jewlery. She
told me that it took a long time to heal. Finally she noticed a little
slip of flesh deep within the hole. It seemed like it might be a tendon or
something. She pulled it up out of the hole with some sort of instrument
and cut it. After that the piercing healed.
This one is like asking the price of a bauble in an expensive store. If
you have to ask the question, you do not know enough to even explore the
answer. This is a very advanced piercing. I am not aware of even one
case where it lasted more than a year or so.
Typing speed? You've got to be kidding.
Geoffrey
Bageler wrote in message <70m0cf$jiq$1...@hecate.umd.edu>...
Shannon Larratt / BME
>I have not had it done but I know someone who has. This individual is
>herself one of the most experienced and knowledgable piercers around. She
>was the original retail manager for the Gauntlet in LA. At the time of
>attempting this piercing she had over 30 piercings at various locations
>around her body.
>
>If anyone knows how to heal a pierce it is this person.
I'm not sure if I agree with you here -- Didn't it take her something like
five tries to make it work? It sounds to me like she never really figured it
out! (I say this partially in jest, I'm not questioning her abilities as a
piercer).
The key to healing a handweb is proper placement.
>This one is like asking the price of a bauble in an expensive store. If
>you have to ask the question, you do not know enough to even explore the
>answer. This is a very advanced piercing. I am not aware of even one
>case where it lasted more than a year or so.
I know of quite a few that are nearing the five year point.
Shannon
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shannon Larratt b...@freeq.com
BME: Body Modification Ezine http://BME.FreeQ.com/
Unusual Real Human Skulls http://BME.FreeQ.com/skulls/
Exotic Cars and Cool Gadgets http://PriceOfHisToys.com/
Bageler
>you have to ask the question, you do not know enough to even explore the
>answer. This is a very advanced piercing. I am not aware of even one
<sarcasm>i humbly beg your forgiveness for asking a piercing question. i'm
not worthy of such higher knowledge as healing factors, etc.</sarcasm>
>Typing speed? You've got to be kidding.
why's that not a legit question?
How should i go about finding answers without asking questions? Is this
where I should be asking questions, or is the knowledge assimilated through
other piercings? Do my other holes all say "resistance is futile," and i
become one with the piercing collective? That would seem a pretty risky way
to go about learning....
I've seen plenty of pics of them, but no mention of healing, precautions
while healing, etc. anywhere i've looked. That's why I asked.
bage
Geoffrey
Shannon Larratt / BME wrote in message
<70m9hh$b5n$1...@news2.tor.accglobal.net>...
>In article <70m5li$f...@news-central.tiac.net>, "Geoffrey"
<ge...@NOT.FOR.SPAM.tiac.net> wrote:
>>I have not had it done but I know someone who has. This individual is
>>herself one of the most experienced and knowledgable piercers around. She
>>was the original retail manager for the Gauntlet in LA. At the time of
>>attempting this piercing she had over 30 piercings at various locations
>>around her body.
>>
>>If anyone knows how to heal a pierce it is this person.
>
>I'm not sure if I agree with you here -- Didn't it take her something like
>five tries to make it work? It sounds to me like she never really figured
it
>out! (I say this partially in jest, I'm not questioning her abilities as a
>piercer).
at the time was, "it was fun but never again"
>
>The key to healing a handweb is proper placement.
arrows.
>
>>This one is like asking the price of a bauble in an expensive store. If
>>answer. This is a very advanced piercing. I am not aware of even one
>
>I know of quite a few that are nearing the five year point.
have to ask, you are not ready though."
To me, that is the really key point for anyone who is asking. It is a hard
one to heal.
Geoffrey
Rebekah
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bodyart/piercing-faq/introduction/index.html
That's what the FAQs have.
As for typing speed... my OPINION would be that if you're any good at typing,
the pierce would be more likely to get rejected. I'm looking at my hands as I
type now, and even tho one doesn't use the left thumb on the keyboard, I see
that my left thumb moves a lot.
If you're concerned with typing speed, I assume that perhaps you type for a
living? if so, please think carefully about this pierce. It's like me, being
pretty good with communicating and getting my tongue split. I'm taking a
risk....
Look in Deja News to see if you can find any more thoughts on this.
And, if you do the pierce, let me know so that I can send some happy healing
vibes. I am not a fan of this pierce so I would think that you'd need extra
vibes.
~ Rebekah
Bageler wrote:
> >This one is like asking the price of a bauble in an expensive store. If
> umm....ok...
>
> >you have to ask the question, you do not know enough to even explore the
> >answer. This is a very advanced piercing. I am not aware of even one
>
> <sarcasm>i humbly beg your forgiveness for asking a piercing question. i'm
> not worthy of such higher knowledge as healing factors, etc.</sarcasm>
>
> >Typing speed? You've got to be kidding.
>
> why's that not a legit question?
>
> How should i go about finding answers without asking questions? Is this
> where I should be asking questions, or is the knowledge assimilated through
> other piercings? Do my other holes all say "resistance is futile," and i
> become one with the piercing collective? That would seem a pretty risky way
> to go about learning....
>
> I've seen plenty of pics of them, but no mention of healing, precautions
> while healing, etc. anywhere i've looked. That's why I asked.
>
> bage
--
"Friction, friction, friction... orgasm. Fishism."
Oh, how you taunt and tease ... do you do it to torture or to please?
~ Pat Moss, 10/14/98
members.aol.com/ta2intl/tattoo.htm www.askjeeves.com -- search engine
FAQs- http://www.eskimo.com/~rab http://www.achilles.net/~dextra/spako
Rebekah
> <snip>
> OK, that is news to me, I think you will agree with my assesment, "If you
> have to ask, you are not ready though."
>
> To me, that is the really key point for anyone who is asking. It is a hard
> one to heal.
>
> Geoffrey
Geoffrey my friend, this is RAB. Everyone has to ask or else no one would
know.Are you saying that I shouldn't get my tongue split because I'm still
asking questions?
Once she's done asking (part of research) then she'll be ready. Perhaps.
~ Rebekah, who still asks the price of baubles cuz she likes to try them on...
& who has to take an opportunity to remind Geoffrey that not everyone has been
lucky enough to have had his incredibly vast experiences... meant in a good way
not to be nasty
Shannon Larratt / BME
>Geoffrey wrote:
>> OK, that is news to me, I think you will agree with my assesment, "If you
>> have to ask, you are not ready though."
>>
>> To me, that is the really key point for anyone who is asking. It is a hard
>> one to heal.
>
>Geoffrey my friend, this is RAB. Everyone has to ask or else no one would
>know.Are you saying that I shouldn't get my tongue split because I'm still
>asking questions?
I agree with Rebekah here. Asking is what RAB is all about. I don't think that
the poster's questions were unreasonable for the average hand-web-getter.
I know people where it's been a first piercing from them and it did fine.
Sometimes a navel/nipple/pa/whatever stock piercing doesn't aesthetically
appeal to a person and the one they want is an odd one.
Bageler
>I agree with Rebekah here. Asking is what RAB is all about. I don't think
that
>the poster's questions were unreasonable for the average hand-web-getter.
thanks
>I know people where it's been a first piercing from them and it did fine.
>Sometimes a navel/nipple/pa/whatever stock piercing doesn't aesthetically
>appeal to a person and the one they want is an odd one.
it's not that it would be my first, i have my nipples done and a frenum
pierce and one in my ear... it's just that facial piercings don't appeal to
me, and getting lots of stuff in my ears isn't really an option. My hair
gets caught in my one lobe piercing now, i can't imagine what it would be
like try to wash it w/ an industrial set....so i'm just looking for other
piercings that would be visible. i know, i've ruled a lot out...but i'm
lookin!
and Rebekah wrote:
>Once she's done asking (part of research) then she'll be ready. Perhaps.
i'm a he!! :)
The Unabageler
Rebekah
> >I agree with Rebekah here. Asking is what RAB is all about. I don't
> think that
> >the poster's questions were unreasonable for the average
> hand-web-getter.
>
> thanks
>
> <snip>
>
> and Rebekah wrote:
> >Once she's done asking (part of research) then she'll be ready.
> Perhaps.
> i'm a he!! :)
>
> The Unabageler
Well, then there's a problem. This is a girl's pierce, so you must be
gay.
Unless you pierce the webs between each finger, then you're bisexual.
--
Kensington wrist pad ad: "...The result is a workspace that not only
works for you, but is uniquely you."
"But you have the same one!" ~ Susan Webb, 10/21/98
Geoffrey
>
>Geoffrey my friend, this is RAB. Everyone has to ask or else no one would
>know.Are you saying that I shouldn't get my tongue split because I'm still
>asking questions?
on...
>& who has to take an opportunity to remind Geoffrey that not everyone has
been
>lucky enough to have had his incredibly vast experiences... meant in a
good way
>not to be nasty
>
That is not what I said at all.
I am saying that this is a difficult and demanding pierce to heal. Persons
that are inexperienced at healing a new piercing will not have a successful
time healing it. Therefore, if you have to ask, it is not for you. This
is also why there is so little information about it.
From what I understand of tongue split, it does not take special skill to
heal so it does not fall into this category.
Geoffrey
Rebekah
> I am not saying as a general priciple that people should not ask
> questions.
> That is not what I said at all.
"This one is like asking the price of a bauble in an expensive store.
Ifyou have to ask the question, you do not know enough to even explore
the
answer. This is a very advanced piercing. I am not aware of even one
case where it lasted more than a year or so.
Typing speed? You've got to be kidding.
Geoffrey"
Can you see why that was misleading?
> I am saying that this is a difficult and demanding pierce to heal.
> Persons
> that are inexperienced at healing a new piercing will not have a
> successful
> time healing it. Therefore, if you have to ask, it is not for you.
He said he's a seasoned piercee.
> This is also why there is so little information about it.
But for all we knew he could have done research and have been held back
for many reasons... what if there WAS a lot of information, but his ISP
blocked what it considered "obscene" -- we hear about that at least once
a month...
> From what I understand of tongue split, it does not take special skill
> to
> heal so it does not fall into this category.
But THIS one is better performed by a surgeon... Just saying that no
matter how much research one does, asking follow-up questions still
helps...
Geoffrey... I think that all the talk about ignorant vs. stupid this
week is grating on your Last Dumbass Nerve (located near the solar
plexus), and you're spooking every time you think you see a dolt.
Chill, dude. Have a cuppa decaf.
smo0o00o0o0ochies,
Rebekah.
Geoffrey
that
>the poster's questions were unreasonable for the average hand-web-getter.
>
>Sometimes a navel/nipple/pa/whatever stock piercing doesn't aesthetically
>appeal to a person and the one they want is an odd one.
I did not say that people should not ask questions. How did you get that?
I drew a direct analogy in my original post to people asking the price in an
expensive shop. I went from there to the sophistication of healing this
pierce and that is why I said what I said. I was saying that if you are
looking for basic information, it is likely that this piercing is not a good
idea.
Geoffrey
Geoffrey
I am a little amazed.
On the one hand you are talking about universal precautions etc. and their
importance in terms of the dire consequences that can befall the uncautious.
Now you are defending Webbing pierces for all. A wound of this nature on
the hand is much more likely to become infected than one on say, an earlobe.
Due to the complex nature of the hand, an infection is much more likely to
lead to a real disability than other piercings.
Someone with a webbing pierce, especially someone without a clear
understanding of infection, cleaning, self diagnosis etc. etc. is much more
likely to suffer a permanent loss of function than someone who has a more
commonplace pierce in a clean but not fully precautious shop.
This is what I am saying. Perhaps my analogy was a tad defective, I don't
think so, but the important thing is that this is not a piercing that should
be taken lightly. IHMHO it it only appropriate with a piercer AND piercee
who are extremely knowledgable.
Geoffrey
Shannon Larratt / BME
>I did not say that people should not ask questions. How did you get that?
>I drew a direct analogy in my original post to people asking the price in an
>expensive shop. I went from there to the sophistication of healing this
>pierce and that is why I said what I said. I was saying that if you are
>looking for basic information, it is likely that this piercing is not a good
>idea.
Why not? If they want this piercing, why shouldn't they ask before getting it?
This person does know about piercing in general, they have a frenum, etc...
They're not some navel-kid. Even if they were, if they want the piercing, the
first step SHOULD be to ask. There's no need for someone to learn by a long
string of failed experiments as you describe your friend having done.
Let me put it another way: If someone wants a handweb, what do you think they
ought to do first?
Shannon Larratt / BME
>Now you are defending Webbing pierces for all. A wound of this nature on
>the hand is much more likely to become infected than one on say, an earlobe.
>Due to the complex nature of the hand, an infection is much more likely to
>lead to a real disability than other piercings.
It's not a risky piercing. End of story.
Rebekah
> One more thing...
>
> I am a little amazed.
>
> On the one hand you are talking about universal precautions etc. and their
> importance in terms of the dire consequences that can befall the uncautious.
> Now you are defending Webbing pierces for all. A wound of this nature on
> the hand is much more likely to become infected than one on say, an earlobe.
> Due to the complex nature of the hand, an infection is much more likely to
> lead to a real disability than other piercings.
The noive! the utta noive!!
I am NOT "defending Webbing pierces for all." Frankly, the pierce squicks me.
I freak when I get paper cuts there.
Further, as a typist and as someone who plays around with a camera, I see it as
impractical.
That's my OPINION.
What I defend is the right to ask questions. I will NOT defend the right to
pick on someone's questions.
> Someone with a webbing pierce, especially someone without a clear
> understanding of infection, cleaning, self diagnosis etc. etc. is much more
> likely to suffer a permanent loss of function than someone who has a more
> commonplace pierce in a clean but not fully precautious shop.
DUH !!!!! but how the hell is anyone gonna know that if they don't
ASK QUESTIONS!!!!!
> This is what I am saying. Perhaps my analogy was a tad defective, I don't
> think so, but the important thing is that this is not a piercing that should
> be taken lightly. IHMHO it it only appropriate with a piercer AND piercee
> who are extremely knowledgable.
Well, maybe if RAB hadn't scared away poor Bage for asking questions, maybe an
educated discussion could have followed, perhaps with Shannon SENDING this
potential client to "a piercer ... who [is] extremely knowledgable." Or maybe
poor Bage could have decided that this isn't the pierce he wants, without being
ridiculed.
Again today I shall say, not everyone has had the luck to have had the
experiences that Geoffrey has had, not to meet the people that he has met. That
knowledge and experience that Geoffrey has gleaned should be shared or kept to
himself, not used to belittle others.
I'm really quite angry now. I feel as though I've been walking through a plaza
and have come upon a bully and a child. For shame!
Signing off from alt.geoffrey.inmynotsohumbleinfactratherhoitytoityopinion,
I remain, Defender of the uninformed but eager to learn and President of the
Erik Fan club,
~ Rebekah
--
"Friction, friction, friction... orgasm. Fishism."
Oh, how you taunt and tease ... do you do it to torture or to please?
~ Pat Moss, 10/14/98
Judith Grunberger
> Again today I shall say, not everyone has had the luck to have had the
> experiences that Geoffrey has had, not to meet the people that he has
> met. That knowledge and experience that Geoffrey has gleaned should
> be shared or kept to himself, not used to belittle others.
Yes, but he's [that is, Bageler] met *me*, and Geoffrey hasn't met me, so,
like, what more is missing?
I mean, other than something on Geoffrey's part.
*preen*
~Judy
--
Judith Grunberger * jcoo...@io.com | "no Bad Religion song can
Home page: http://www.io.com/~jcookson | make your life complete"
RAB FAQs: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bodyart/ | Bad Religion, No Direction
Rebekah
i have not met geoffrey. i shall not comment further at this time.
~ Rebekah, who should be scanning but who is instead going to give the puter a
night off
Judith Grunberger wrote:
--
Bageler
Rebekah wrote in message <362F1A12...@ziplink.net>...
>http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bodyart/piercing-faq/personal-experiences/partA/in
dex.html
>
>http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bodyart/piercing-faq/introduction/index.html
>That's what the FAQs have.
thanks, i'll go look there.
>As for typing speed... my OPINION would be that if you're any good at
typing,
>the pierce would be more likely to get rejected. I'm looking at my hands
as I
i realize that...but i can still type fairly well with one hand...had to do
that for a while when i broke one of them. so not too worried about loss of
use of hand.
>And, if you do the pierce, let me know so that I can send some happy
healing
>vibes. I am not a fan of this pierce so I would think that you'd need
extra
>vibes.
probably not getting it anytime soon, seeing as how i'm out of funds. but
i'm planning ahead for when i do have some money :)
but thanks in advance for the vibes!
bage
Bageler
Judith Grunberger wrote in message ...
>Yes, but he's [that is, Bageler] met *me*, and Geoffrey hasn't met me, so,
>like, what more is missing?
you're so right! <cower in humility>Your knowledge and power belittles the
world's greatest leaders, philosophers, scientists, and artists, <very very
big and important looking letters>Oh Gracious One!</importance></cower>
hehe
:)
bage
Geoffrey
I do think that if they feel like they need to ask, then maybe the piercing
is not for them. However, it is their body.
Geoffrey
Shannon Larratt / BME wrote in message
<70oaa3$hdv$1...@news2.tor.accglobal.net>...
>In article <70o5mj$r...@news-central.tiac.net>, "Geoffrey"
<ge...@NOT.FOR.SPAM.tiac.net> wrote:
>>I did not say that people should not ask questions. How did you get that?
>>I drew a direct analogy in my original post to people asking the price in
an
>>expensive shop. I went from there to the sophistication of healing this
>>pierce and that is why I said what I said. I was saying that if you are
>>looking for basic information, it is likely that this piercing is not a
good
>>idea.
>
>Why not? If they want this piercing, why shouldn't they ask before getting
it?
>This person does know about piercing in general, they have a frenum, etc...
>They're not some navel-kid. Even if they were, if they want the piercing,
the
>first step SHOULD be to ask. There's no need for someone to learn by a long
>string of failed experiments as you describe your friend having done.
>
>Let me put it another way: If someone wants a handweb, what do you think
they
>ought to do first?
>
Geoffrey
not I think anyone should ask questions. That was something that entered
your mind and shannons, it was never part of the discussion for me.
I did not think this guy was stupid. He was asking a question about a
pierce that I happen to think is not the best idea in the world. What I
was trying to say was exactly that.
Personally, I would feel safer in a studio that was sloppy with Universal
precautions (allowing that is bad) than I would getting this pierce.
If someone did get the pierce, I think it would have to be a near constant
meditation. Someone whose job it is to work in a piercing studio might get
the slack cut them from their management but most of us would not.
That's all I was trying to say.
Geoffrey
Geoffrey
>It's not a risky piercing. End of story.
I disagree. That's all.
Geoffrey
Geoffrey
I also feel quite attacked for simply answering the question as I personally
saw fit. The guy asked about the piercing, I told him what I knew and
offered my opinion about it.
Now it sounds like you agree with me. When it sounded like you didn't, it
occured to me that in my mind it is more hazardous than the hazards we
discussed in another thread. So ... I brought that up. I did not feel I
was putting you down, only pulling the two thoughts together.
Even though I have reasons for what I say, that is not the point. I think
it is a dangerous piercing. Obviously I put it in a way that sent the
thread in a completely different direction.
I probably should not have offered the reasons for why I believe it. Fact
is, I would think it was a bad idea even if I had not had the experiences.
Can we stop this now? Take my word for it, I meant no offense (this time)
to anyone.
Geoffrey
Shannon Larratt / BME
>>It's not a risky piercing. End of story.
>
>I disagree. That's all.
Yes, there is a solid chance of rejection. Most of them don't last,
partially because most piercers haven't done enough of them to really
understand how they need to be placed.
That said, it is not a risky piercing. Mine never got infected once, whereas I
did have other piercings get infected. Perhaps it's because it's because
people tend to take care of them better, or perhaps because it sits in a
sheltered fold. Hands are easy to wash, so it's very easy to keep clean. Even
if it does get infected, it's no worse than a cut on your hand -- there's no
easy path to damage anything.
Knuckle piercings on the other hand...
Shannon Larratt / BME
>>As for typing speed... my OPINION would be that if you're any good at
>typing,
>>the pierce would be more likely to get rejected. I'm looking at my hands
>as I
>
>
>i realize that...but i can still type fairly well with one hand...had to do
>that for a while when i broke one of them. so not too worried about loss of
>use of hand.
Actually that's not the case, typing isn't a major problem.
Tape your thumb (just behind the first joint) to your hand and there will be
no movement in the relevant areas.
Flkdanrlee
>I
>did have other piercings get infected. Perhaps it's because it's because
>people tend to take care of them better, or perhaps because it sits in
oOO...It soothes me to see some positive reactions to a hand webbing
pierce...The four piercers in my area I asked to do it refused, since it's just
a "bad" piercing. Now my faith is renewed, and I'll just try to travel a
little for my piercing.---------Melissa
Geoffrey
you are a good candidate to accomplish this piercing successfully. I
certainly would never argue with you about a possible outcome because I know
that you really know a lot about it.
My point is and was that for someone out there who is asking the question it
is not likely that they have access to an adequately competent piercer and
sufficent knowledge of their own to take care of it. That is not to suggest
this person is stupid only that they do not posess the superior knowledge
and context that the piercing requires for success and safety.
Whether it is safe or not depends on the person getting the piercing, the
piercer doing the piercing and the circumstances in which the person lives
as well as the anatomy of the site. I am considering all of that when I
comment on safety. I think that is the prudent approach.
Geoffrey
Shannon Larratt / BME wrote in message
<70orhc$s3v$2...@news2.tor.accglobal.net>...
>In article <70oq9d$d...@news-central.tiac.net>, "Geoffrey"
<ge...@NOT.FOR.SPAM.tiac.net> wrote:
>>>It's not a risky piercing. End of story.
>>
>>I disagree. That's all.
>
>Yes, there is a solid chance of rejection. Most of them don't last,
>partially because most piercers haven't done enough of them to really
>understand how they need to be placed.
>
>That said, it is not a risky piercing. Mine never got infected once,
whereas I
>did have other piercings get infected. Perhaps it's because it's because
>people tend to take care of them better, or perhaps because it sits in a
>sheltered fold. Hands are easy to wash, so it's very easy to keep clean.
Even
>if it does get infected, it's no worse than a cut on your hand -- there's
no
>easy path to damage anything.
>
>Knuckle piercings on the other hand...
>
Bageler
Geoffrey wrote in message <70r66r$7...@news-central.tiac.net>...
>My point is and was that for someone out there who is asking the question
it
>is not likely that they have access to an adequately competent piercer and
>sufficent knowledge of their own to take care of it. That is not to
suggest
so if i asked if it was ok to fly on an airplane, i would be just as
incompetent, because i couldn't catch a train downtown to visit my pilot?
the reason i asked here was because it's a helluva lot more accessible than
taking a few hours out to ride the dc metro downtown thru the ghetto to talk
to a professional piercer.
>this person is stupid only that they do not posess the superior knowledge
>and context that the piercing requires for success and safety.
i'm sorry i tried to gain knowledge from you geoffrey...you're obviously way
too smart for my own good, and any help you could give i'm not worthy of
recieving. i thought that i would get a decent reply, instead of someone
with an "i'm better than you" complex bashing me for being curious. i
needed to start asking questions somewhere, and i thought this was the place
to do it, but according to you this type of question isn't allowed because i
don't have such higher knowledge as your own. i ask you again, where am i
supposed to find it if i don't ask? i'm not new to being pierced, but then
i'm not like your good friend who has 30 holes...i always ask before any new
pierce, if i've done my own research or not. i like others opinions...what
i don't like is being bashed for asking.
EOT
Rebekah
Bageler wrote:
> Geoffrey wrote in message <70r66r$7...@news-central.tiac.net>...
> >My point is and was that for someone out there who is asking the question
> it
> >is not likely that they have access to an adequately competent piercer and
> >sufficent knowledge of their own to take care of it. That is not to
> suggest
>
> so if i asked if it was ok to fly on an airplane, i would be just as
> incompetent, because i couldn't catch a train downtown to visit my pilot?
> the reason i asked here was because it's a helluva lot more accessible than
> taking a few hours out to ride the dc metro downtown thru the ghetto to talk
> to a professional piercer.
Course, you couldn't find your pilot without a good travel agent; just consider
RAB your travel agent on soul-searching journeys...
> >this person is stupid only that they do not posess the superior knowledge
> >and context that the piercing requires for success and safety.
>
> i'm sorry i tried to gain knowledge from you geoffrey...you're obviously way
> too smart for my own good, and any help you could give i'm not worthy of
> recieving. i thought that i would get a decent reply, instead of someone
> with an "i'm better than you" complex bashing me for being curious. i
> needed to start asking questions somewhere, and i thought this was the place
> to do it, but according to you this type of question isn't allowed because i
> don't have such higher knowledge as your own. i ask you again, where am i
> supposed to find it if i don't ask?
I said STOP it. Despite my cocky
alt.geoffrey.inmynotsohumbleinfactratherhoitytoityopinion comment, this is NOT a
group where you need permission to ask a question.
You did good. You asked.
You also got answers from me (not too hot) and from Shannon (HE knows his
stuff). Geoffrey says that his intentions, tho not well communicated, were good
(the road to hell being paved with good intentions notwithstanding) and you have
more information than you had before.
> i'm not new to being pierced, but then
> i'm not like your good friend who has 30 holes...i always ask before any new
> pierce, if i've done my own research or not. i like others opinions...what
> i don't like is being bashed for asking.
>
> EOT
Only one person bashed you; that rebuttal coulda been done via private email.
*I* have a final question...
Should Bage decide to go through with the pierce, who would be the piercer to
send him to? We've established that
1) the pierce CAN succeed and
2) the pierce should not be performed by a novice.
~ Rebekah
Geoffrey
want to play the victim, go right ahead.
I do not think I am better than you. I think neither one of us would be
wise to get this piercing. That is the information that I have, that is
the information that I shared with you in honest and honorable attempt to
meet your question with the best answer that I have. I tried to provide a
witty answer. Evidently that was foolish of me, I never imagined that
people would wish to play a victims role.
I honestly never thought you nor anyone else in this post was stupid,
beneath me or anything else. I have said that already in this thread and
thus your claims and snide statements about me are specious attempts to milk
a victims role for everything that it is worth.
I am offended by your statements and by Rebekahs toward me. Rebekah kept
after me here and privately despite every statement I made that my
intentions were other. I do not understand why you or she want so very
dearly to believe other than what I said.
Go get the fucking piercing. I honestly do not care. If it goes wrong,
do have the integrity to admit that someone told you that it was not a good
idea.
I am done with this thread.
>
>Geoffrey wrote in message <70r66r$7...@news-central.tiac.net>...
>>My point is and was that for someone out there who is asking the question
>it
>>is not likely that they have access to an adequately competent piercer and
>>sufficent knowledge of their own to take care of it. That is not to
>suggest
>
>so if i asked if it was ok to fly on an airplane, i would be just as
>incompetent, because i couldn't catch a train downtown to visit my pilot?
>the reason i asked here was because it's a helluva lot more accessible than
>taking a few hours out to ride the dc metro downtown thru the ghetto to
talk
>to a professional piercer.
>
>>this person is stupid only that they do not posess the superior knowledge
>>and context that the piercing requires for success and safety.
>
>i'm sorry i tried to gain knowledge from you geoffrey...you're obviously
way
>too smart for my own good, and any help you could give i'm not worthy of
>recieving. i thought that i would get a decent reply, instead of someone
>with an "i'm better than you" complex bashing me for being curious. i
>needed to start asking questions somewhere, and i thought this was the
place
>to do it, but according to you this type of question isn't allowed because
i
>don't have such higher knowledge as your own. i ask you again, where am i
>supposed to find it if i don't ask? i'm not new to being pierced, but then
Geoffrey
Shannon Larratt / BME wrote in message
>In article <70r66r$7...@news-central.tiac.net>, "Geoffrey"
<ge...@NOT.FOR.SPAM.tiac.net> wrote:
>>Yes I would say that with your experience, knowledge and connections that
>>you are a good candidate to accomplish this piercing successfully. I
>>certainly would never argue with you about a possible outcome because I
know
>>that you really know a lot about it.
>
I do not do flattery, it is entirely out of character. It is an honest
assesment.
>
>Not neccessarily... A lot of folks will ask questions here to prep
themselves.
>When I got my Jeep I asked a bunch of really stupid questions before
getting
>my suspension lift done. It made sure that when I actually did it, it
turned
>out better.
OK damnit, it was a bad way to make my point. Nothing whatever wrong with
questions. Questions, honestly asked do demonstrate a lack of knowledge.
So ... the piercing is not a good one knowledge is lacking. That was my
point.
>
>>Whether it is safe or not depends on the person getting the piercing, the
>>piercer doing the piercing and the circumstances in which the person lives
>>as well as the anatomy of the site. I am considering all of that when I
>>comment on safety. I think that is the prudent approach.
>
>Well, Gauntlet did publish that their piercers felt it was risky because of
>the chance of hitting the bone ;B
>
Exactly and in part their statement was probably based on the very same
source that I cited.
My knowledge of anatomy also frightens me in regards to this piercing.
There is a lot of poorly perfused and very functional connective tissue in
the vicinity. The hand takes more than the usual amount of punishment
(compared to say an ear). The hand get's more than the usual amount of
exposure to contaminants and filth. It comes in contact with all sorts of
things that could be contageous and you have an open wound there as well.
These are the reasons that I think the piercing is one that should be
considered with tremendous caution. Loss of the use of ones thumb would
be a serious disability and not just a disfigurement. Most other
piercings, if they go awry are simply disfiguring or lead to a different
than the intended appearance. That is pretty much the worst case. The
down side here, the realistic down side is much much further down.
Geoffrey
Rebekah
> I do not think I am better than you. I think neither one of us would be
> wise to get this piercing. That is the information that I have, that is
> the information that I shared with you in honest and honorable attempt to
> meet your question with the best answer that I have. I tried to provide a
> witty answer. Evidently that was foolish of me, I never imagined that
> people would wish to play a victims role.
>
> <snip that he honestly feels that none of us were stupid... this sentence is
> shorter than his explanation>
>
> I am offended by your statements and by Rebekahs toward me. Rebekah kept
> after me here and privately despite every statement I made that my
> intentions were other. I do not understand why you or she want so very
> dearly to believe other than what I said.
I "kept after you privately" because I had off-topic thoughts that I thought you
wouldn't want online. but fine...
Geoffrey, you're a bright guy. But instead of just sharing information, you have
a tendency to be downright condescending at times. If no one wants to back me
up, I don't care, even tho some have shared the sentiment with me. (Their
manners are just better than mine.)
I have been trying to say, delicately, but you don't take the hint:
You have been blessed with many great experiences. Use them for good. (I'd say
"don't use them for evil" but I really don't think that "evil" is who you are.)
I hope that this thread has given Bage the information that he needed, or else
this whole mess will have been one big waste.
Shannon Larratt / BME
>Yes I would say that with your experience, knowledge and connections that
>you are a good candidate to accomplish this piercing successfully. I
>certainly would never argue with you about a possible outcome because I know
>that you really know a lot about it.
Trying to quiet me with flattery? :)
>My point is and was that for someone out there who is asking the question it
>is not likely that they have access to an adequately competent piercer and
>sufficent knowledge of their own to take care of it. That is not to suggest
>this person is stupid only that they do not posess the superior knowledge
>and context that the piercing requires for success and safety.
Not neccessarily... A lot of folks will ask questions here to prep themselves.
When I got my Jeep I asked a bunch of really stupid questions before getting
my suspension lift done. It made sure that when I actually did it, it turned
out better.
>Whether it is safe or not depends on the person getting the piercing, the
>piercer doing the piercing and the circumstances in which the person lives
>as well as the anatomy of the site. I am considering all of that when I
>comment on safety. I think that is the prudent approach.
Well, Gauntlet did publish that their piercers felt it was risky because of
the chance of hitting the bone ;B
Shannon
Shannon Larratt / BME
>>Well, Gauntlet did publish that their piercers felt it was risky because of
>>the chance of hitting the bone ;B
>>
>source that I cited.
I certainly hope not, because in my opinion, whoever started that urban legend
is either obscenely stupid or a piercer with extremely poor aim. There is no
such risk!
>My knowledge of anatomy also frightens me in regards to this piercing.
>There is a lot of poorly perfused and very functional connective tissue in
>the vicinity. The hand takes more than the usual amount of punishment
>(compared to say an ear). The hand get's more than the usual amount of
>exposure to contaminants and filth. It comes in contact with all sorts of
>things that could be contageous and you have an open wound there as well.
>These are the reasons that I think the piercing is one that should be
>considered with tremendous caution. Loss of the use of ones thumb would
>be a serious disability and not just a disfigurement. Most other
>piercings, if they go awry are simply disfiguring or lead to a different
>than the intended appearance. That is pretty much the worst case. The
>down side here, the realistic down side is much much further down.
Bull. A hand web piercing is no more likely to disable your hand than an
eyebrow piercing is to blind you, or a nape piercing is to paralyze you. IT IS
NOT A RISKY PIERCING.
Bageler
Rebekah wrote in message <36314997...@ziplink.net>...
>I hope that this thread has given Bage the information that he needed, or
else
>this whole mess will have been one big waste.
it has given me the information i was looking for, thanks! heard both the
people for it and against it, so i have a better idea of the entire picture.
bage
Geoffrey
experience, I know of nobody who has had a sucessful web piercing. You do
and I surely believe you. Thus, it is possible.
With any piercing, you have to consider who is doing the piercing and who is
receiving it. If the piercer does not understand the piercing (as you
conceed many do not) and the piercee does not know how to keep it clean and
take care of it, it is a potentially dangerous piercing.
Simply because you know of people who have had this piercing successfully
does not mean it is safe. It means it can be done. It is an unusual
piercing still and the information is simply not conclusive. I would
characterize it as "experimental" in relation to an eye brow piercing for
example. This is simply because of how many of each have been done.
The anatomy of the area around where eyebrow piercings are done would not
lead to a reasonable conclusion that blindness is a real risk. The eye
and it's muscles are in a separate fascial compartment from the area being
pierced. Blood flow in the area is better than in the hands. Many
people have diseases that limit blood flow in the hands and therefore
increase risk of infection taking hold. These diseases do not effect the
face. Diabetes, Thoracic outlet syndrome are two conditions that limit
blood flow to the hand. Persons, otherwise healthy, with these conditions
would generally have no difference in blood flow around other piercings than
a person without these diseases.
I would love to hear from someone with more medical training than I have.
What I know and how I see it leads me to believe that a webbing piercing is
far more risky in terms of loosing ability to do things than an eyebrow
piercing. This is with full acknowledgment that there are people out there
who have them and have not suffered any problem.
Geoffrey
timo
>
> I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THEM ASKING!
>
> I do think that if they feel like they need to ask, then maybe the piercing
> is not for them. However, it is their body.
You must be kidding! We know you know it all, Geoffrey, but the rest
of us occaisonally have to rely on others for information. Seems far
better to feel the need, ask those who could offer advice, and
proceed well informed than to step blindly into a mod.
--
timo
LMSGU WorldWide
Geoffrey
BY WHAT I WROTE.
I did not say that this guy should not ask the question. What I did say
was that this is a difficult piercing that not many people know how to do or
to heal correctly, myself included. Thus, I was saying that if you are
asking the question you are so far from the knowledge it might not be a good
idea to get the piercing.
If this piercing is safe and commonplace, please post a list of persons who
have performed it successfuly on more than a few persons. Please post a set
of healing and aftercare procedures that you are prepared to stand behind.
Going to my analogy, tell me the price. If you can not do that then I
think you must consist that this is a question without a clear answer just
as overpriced items without price tags do not have a clear answer as to
price.
I find it strange that this thread is about criticizing how I answered the
question. Though some have asserted that I am wrong and they are right and
thus the piercing is safe, nobody has answered bagelers question. If this
piercing is commonplace with a "clear price" and thus you can answer his
question, ANSWER BAGELERS QUESTION. WHERE DO YOU GET THE PIERCING AND HOW
DO YOU TAKE CARE OF IT.
I made an analogy to the old saw about going into expensive shops and asking
the price when none is given. In my mind this was a situation where the
sophistication of the piercing lead to the lack of information and that is
similar to the sophistication of a high priced shop. I never, not once
said that "questions are bad".
Your assertion that I think "I know it all" is bullshit and belies the
things I have said. In fact, I am quite clear on many occasions that I do
not know it all and I am open when there is some gap in my knowledge and
information. When I have judgements I back them up or, if I am wrong, I
back down.
You on the other hand seem very quick to judge.
I thought this news group was aboout knowledge and open sharing of
information. I did exactly that. I added an antecdote and an analogy to
demonstrate my thoughts. I acknowledged the limits of what I knew and the
fact it was hearsay. People have chosen to attack me. Possibly they do
not like my style or approach. Possibly people do not like my failure to
go with the group or with cherished beliefs the group holds.
Geoffrey
timo wrote in message <3631DE10...@BME.FreeQ.com>...
Eileene Coscolluela
> I did not say that this guy should not ask the question. What I did say
> was that this is a difficult piercing that not many people know how to do or
> to heal correctly, myself included. Thus, I was saying that if you are
> asking the question you are so far from the knowledge it might not be a good
> idea to get the piercing.
Well, by asking questions, an individual is taking the first step in
the learning process. Maybe it wouldn't be a good idea to get it *now*
because the individual doesn't have the knowledge, but after asking and
after it has been answered, then the individual can make the educated
decision whether or not to get the piercing. The asking of the queston
does not mean the person shouldn't get the piercing... it's the possible
lack of a sufficient answer that should be the factor.
The act of asking does not mean the individual is ill-prepared for a
piercing. If anything, it means the person is interested and has the
maturity to ASK questions instead of blindly going ahead with it. That
is when the person shouldn't get the piercing.
I hope that made sense. ;)
Eileene =)
i...@woolgathering.net
Rebekah
OK, Geoffrey I'm posting to RAB because it's out here, despite last night's
post that you were dropping the whole thing. (Any response should come to RAB,
since you brought this out to the group. Private EMail at this point would have
to be posted.)
Assuming that you genuinely believe that your analogy was not condescending.
The "typing speed? You've got to be kidding!" was incredibly condescending.
You stated your friend's experience. That was a Good Thing. You stated your
concerns. Again, a Good Thing.
Geoffrey wrote:
> If this piercing is safe and commonplace, please post a list of persons who
> have performed it successfuly on more than a few persons. Please post a set
> of healing and aftercare procedures that you are prepared to stand behind.
> Going to my analogy, tell me the price. If you can not do that then I
> think you must consist that this is a question without a clear answer just
> as overpriced items without price tags do not have a clear answer as to
> price.
No one said that the piercing was "commonplace." Shannon said that he knows
people who have had successes. Shannon's circle of friend includes people who
don't publicise their mods on RAB. To request a list of names is a bit
cheeky. It also goes against a recent thread on how our mods are for
ourselves... and therefore only for others if we WANT to share.
I think that (and this is MY OPINION) that this pierce is NOT common. THAT IS
WHY BAGE HAD TO ASK. RAB is supposed to be a place where people can ask about
unusual modifications, isn't it? It's not ALL about common modifications.There
is a comprehensive list of FAQs. That means FREQUENTLY asked. This pierce is
unusual enough that it should have sparked a healthy debate, and not another "I
know an expert who had a bad experience" thread.
> I find it strange that this thread is about criticizing how I answered the
> question.
Why?
> Though some have asserted that I am wrong and they are right and
> thus the piercing is safe, nobody has answered bagelers question.
I don't think that it has been said that the pierce is safe for everyone.
Probably for a very few. The ORIGINAL POST just wanted to hear what the
experiences of others were, and not to be told, "If you have to ask, don't do
it."
> I thought this news group was aboout knowledge and open sharing of
> information. I did exactly that. I added an antecdote and an analogy to
> demonstrate my thoughts. I acknowledged the limits of what I knew and the
> fact it was hearsay. People have chosen to attack me. Possibly they do
> not like my style or approach. Possibly people do not like my failure to
> go with the group or with cherished beliefs the group holds.
I have tried repeatedly throughout this thread to say that your offerings
weren't bad, just the way they were presented. You're supposed to be an
intelligent man who works with people. There's no way you can tell me that you
can't see how condescening you can be.
Oh, yeah. DO NOT yell at Timo. I know that he's a member of the Little Mean
Scary Guy Union & can take care of himself. But he & Kristen are my friends,
and therefore I shall take this opportunity to pull out my Bully Analogy again.
For shame.
'Torea
Passage in Toronto has it listed on their price list. I've seen
Tee recomended here a couple times as well.
http://www.interlog.com/~passage/piercing/index.html
'Torea
Geoffrey
> Well, by asking questions, an individual is taking the first step in
>the learning process. Maybe it wouldn't be a good idea to get it *now*
>because the individual doesn't have the knowledge, but after asking and
>after it has been answered, then the individual can make the educated
>decision whether or not to get the piercing.
and illustration that I believe was appropriate.
I want to point something out. Nobody else has answered the question.
Shannon said "It is completely safe" but did not say where to get the
piercing or how to take care of it. That was also part of the question and
one that I am not able to answer.
>The asking of the queston
>does not mean the person shouldn't get the piercing... it's the possible
>lack of a sufficient answer that should be the factor.
>
Yes...
However, the answer to the question might be that the piercing is ill
advised for most persons because few piercers have had any experience with
it and there are particular anatomical factors that give me more pause than
most piercings.
I could be mistaken in my concerns for the piercing. I would defer to the
judgement of extremely experienced persons such as Shannon. Shannon did
not ask the question because he did not need to. He also did not answer
it except to offer his counter assertion that it is safe. He did not
suggest who is experienced in giving the piercing nor did he provide any
information no it's after care or problems that could be expected. This
suggests to me that he was more interested in disagreeing with me than with
answering the question. Fine. That is surely his privilege.
> The act of asking does not mean the individual is ill-prepared for a
>piercing. If anything, it means the person is interested and has the
>maturity to ASK questions instead of blindly going ahead with it. That
>is when the person shouldn't get the piercing.
>
It may mean that they are ill prepared for a complex and controversial
piercing.
Let me give an example. Let's say that I am standing next to boeing 747
jet aircraft. Someone comes up and says, "Is that hard to fly?". I
think it is reasonable to assume this person does not understand flying at
all. Anyone who has flown knows that Jets are considered more difficult to
fly than propeller planes. If this person flew, then they would know that.
Common sense would also tell most people that a large jet aircraft with more
controls and so on was probably a bigger challenge than other planes. This
example does not apply fully to this case, but it is an example of infering
that someone is ill-prepared based on the fact they asked a question.
Being the kind of person I am, I would answer the guys question. I would
even offer the suggestion that he start with a propeller plane instead of a
jet even though I myself did not know how to fly a jet. (which i dont) I
might also comment on what I had heard about the costs of taking all the
lessons to fly a Boeing 747 and the cost of fuel for taking the plane up for
an hour and so on.
Now the person who climbed into the plane and attempted to fly it without
ever having flown would be more than ill prepared, they would be stupid.
So ... the person asking the question is possibly a bit ill prepared but had
the sense to ask first. That's quite true.
Geoffrey
Geoffrey
>
>The "typing speed? You've got to be kidding!" was incredibly
condescending.
to the person. I infer from the question that the ability to type is
important to this person. Putting a hole through the superficial fascia of
the hand and sticking a foreign object in the hole will put your ability to
type at risk. it will put it considerably more at risk than (shannons
analogy) getting an eyebrow piercing risks blindness. That's my point. I
could be mistaken, but that is what I believe. If your ability to type is
important, you are fucking nuts to get a webbing piercing, in my HUMBLE
opinion.
Certainly the comment was no more condescending than the comments you have
made to me personally in the last few days.
>
>I think that (and this is MY OPINION) that this pierce is NOT common. THAT
IS
>WHY BAGE HAD TO ASK. RAB is supposed to be a place where people can ask
about
>unusual modifications, isn't it?
Yes it is uncommon. I did not say that he should not have asked the
question. Not once. Why is it of such vital importance to you to hold to
your mistaken belief that I put him down for asking the question. I did
not put him down for asking the question.
> It's not ALL about common modifications.There
>is a comprehensive list of FAQs. That means FREQUENTLY asked. This pierce
is
>unusual enough that it should have sparked a healthy debate, and not
another "I
>know an expert who had a bad experience" thread.
>
I have no problem with people debating uncommon mods. If this thread had
been about that, then it would have been great.
>> I find it strange that this thread is about criticizing how I answered
the
>> question.
>
>Why?
Because people, including yourself want to believe that I think things and
believe things that I do not believe and do not think. You do not seem
satisfied with anything that i say or claim about my true intentions. You
continue to rag on me for what was, at worst an off handed and poorly
constructed response. I was abundently clear in my concession on that point
and still you want to rail on me. Is that fair? I may have made some
mistakes in rhetoric that were misunderstood and I said that. You and
others seemed to not want to hear that I said I was misunderstood. You have
this intense desire to assume I think questions should not be answered.
This is simply not the case. How hard will it be to get you to let go of
your cherished belief. Why can you not accept what I say? I have no
issue whatever with people asking any kind of question that pleases them,
OK? Can we move on?
>
>> Though some have asserted that I am wrong and they are right and
>> thus the piercing is safe, nobody has answered bagelers question.
>
>I don't think that it has been said that the pierce is safe for everyone.
Actually it was said.
>Probably for a very few. The ORIGINAL POST just wanted to hear what the
>experiences of others were, and not to be told, "If you have to ask, don't
do
>it."
>
I offered my experiences. God help me, I offered my thoughts.
>> I thought this news group was aboout knowledge and open sharing of
>> information. I did exactly that. I added an antecdote and an analogy
to
>> demonstrate my thoughts. I acknowledged the limits of what I knew and
the
>> fact it was hearsay. People have chosen to attack me. Possibly they
do
>> not like my style or approach. Possibly people do not like my failure
to
>> go with the group or with cherished beliefs the group holds.
>
>I have tried repeatedly throughout this thread to say that your offerings
>weren't bad, just the way they were presented.
I have tried repeatedly to say that I acknowledge what you said and you have
tried repeatedly to say the same thing. So ... where does this lead?
>You're supposed to be an
>intelligent man who works with people. There's no way you can tell me that
you
>can't see how condescening you can be.
>
Sometimes my condescenion is also a choice. This is not one of them.
My values are to say what I believe even if I think that could lead to
people not liking me. Truth and knowledge are higher values than
friendship for me.
>Oh, yeah. DO NOT yell at Timo. I know that he's a member of the Little
Mean
>Scary Guy Union & can take care of himself. But he & Kristen are my
friends,
>and therefore I shall take this opportunity to pull out my Bully Analogy
again.
>For shame.
I think his comments were nasty, inappropriate and not based on a careful
reading of what I wrote. You are right, he can take care of himself. His
purpose was to put me down and not to instruct, counsel or improve things in
anyway. I responded in kind. I would point out that he has been snide to
me in the past in precisely the kinds of ways that you are criticizing me
for now. If by this, you mean that you are taking sides, thank you for
your honesty.
Geoffrey
Shannon Larratt / BME
>>The "typing speed? You've got to be kidding!" was incredibly
>condescending.
>Perhaps I was not respecting the question, but I was not being condescending
>to the person. I infer from the question that the ability to type is
>important to this person. Putting a hole through the superficial fascia of
>the hand and sticking a foreign object in the hole will put your ability to
>type at risk. it will put it considerably more at risk than (shannons
>analogy) getting an eyebrow piercing risks blindness. That's my point. I
>could be mistaken, but that is what I believe. If your ability to type is
>important, you are fucking nuts to get a webbing piercing, in my HUMBLE
>opinion.
Well, you ARE mistaken. A hand web will have NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on your
typing ability, speed, etc. It will affect heavy bar lifting and actions that
have that type of gripping position (with the hand wrapped around something).
A hand web piercing will have minimal impact on the desk jockey type.
>This is simply not the case. How hard will it be to get you to let go of
>your cherished belief. Why can you not accept what I say?
Because what you are saying in this case is wrong.
Outside of all the OT stuff, what you have stated about the handweb piercing
comes from one person, who from your desription, screwed it up time after time
after time!!!
Shannon Larratt / BME
>If this piercing is safe and commonplace,
Safe and commonplace are not the same thing.
It is not commonplace, no one would make that claim.
It is however, safe.
>please post a list of persons who
>have performed it successfuly on more than a few persons.
The difficulty with that is that few piercers have done very many of them.
However, some piercers have MUCH higher success rates than others. Tom Brazda
from Stainless Studios is one person who I believe has "figured it out".
Remember also that safe is not the same as successful. Any piercer that's
not dead-dumb can do it safely, but they may not be successful. However, as
with surface piercing, good technique and aftercare can minimize rejection.
>Please post a set
>of healing and aftercare procedures that you are prepared to stand behind.
Keep it clean, do saline soaks. It's not that hard. Placement is the important
part. I'll try and set up an interview with Tom about it if there's an
interest.
yttrx
: In article <70o5mj$r...@news-central.tiac.net>, "Geoffrey" <ge...@NOT.FOR.SPAM.tiac.net> wrote:
:>I did not say that people should not ask questions. How did you get that?
:>I drew a direct analogy in my original post to people asking the price in an
:>expensive shop. I went from there to the sophistication of healing this
:>pierce and that is why I said what I said. I was saying that if you are
:>looking for basic information, it is likely that this piercing is not a good
:>idea.
: Why not? If they want this piercing, why shouldn't they ask before getting it?
: This person does know about piercing in general, they have a frenum, etc...
: They're not some navel-kid. Even if they were, if they want the piercing, the
: first step SHOULD be to ask. There's no need for someone to learn by a long
: string of failed experiments as you describe your friend having done.
: Let me put it another way: If someone wants a handweb, what do you think they
: ought to do first?
Let me be the first to apologize and point something out here:
If it wasnt for me and people like me driving out the effervescent Anne
away from RAB (slap mah hand), then this whole thread would have been replaced
by me saying:
"What the fuck Anne! Quit it with your inane, useless, 'read the faq' posts."
And then everyone could have attacked me instead, and the original poster
would have had their question answered.
Ah well. I suppose we all have our nits to pick, no?
-----yttrx
yttrx
:>>The "typing speed? You've got to be kidding!" was incredibly
:>condescending.
:>Perhaps I was not respecting the question, but I was not being condescending
:>to the person. I infer from the question that the ability to type is
:>important to this person. Putting a hole through the superficial fascia of
:>the hand and sticking a foreign object in the hole will put your ability to
:>type at risk. it will put it considerably more at risk than (shannons
:>analogy) getting an eyebrow piercing risks blindness. That's my point. I
:>could be mistaken, but that is what I believe. If your ability to type is
:>important, you are fucking nuts to get a webbing piercing, in my HUMBLE
:>opinion.
: Well, you ARE mistaken. A hand web will have NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on your
: typing ability, speed, etc. It will affect heavy bar lifting and actions that
: have that type of gripping position (with the hand wrapped around something).
: A hand web piercing will have minimal impact on the desk jockey type.
As it effects a chick and dude I know who got matching webs (between
thumb and index finger on right hands). They couldnt ride their harleys
for a good chunk of the summer. It sucked for them.
And as far as typing speed goes, (while everyone is quite willing to be
picking at microscopic nits here) I think it depends on your speed. Do not
tell me that I would be able to hit a buck thirty a minute in spurts the
way I can now. At least not during healing. I dont buy it for a second.
A HANGNAIL slows me down.
-----yttrx*
*becoming quite annoyed with this bloody fucking newsgroup again
Rebekah
> I want to point something out. Nobody else has answered the question.
> Shannon said "It is completely safe" but did not say where to get the
> piercing or how to take care of it. That was also part of the question and
> one that I am not able to answer.
'Torea answered with one shop, before this post went up. Shannon has since
answered, so I guess that part is out of the way.
> Let me give an example. Let's say that I am standing next to boeing 747
> jet aircraft. Someone comes up and says, "Is that hard to fly?". I
> think it is reasonable to assume this person does not understand flying at
> all. Anyone who has flown knows that Jets are considered more difficult to
> fly than propeller planes. If this person flew, then they would know that.
> Common sense would also tell most people that a large jet aircraft with more
> controls and so on was probably a bigger challenge than other planes. This
> example does not apply fully to this case, but it is an example of infering
> that someone is ill-prepared based on the fact they asked a question.
>
> Being the kind of person I am, I would answer the guys question. I would
> even offer the suggestion that he start with a propeller plane instead of a
> jet even though I myself did not know how to fly a jet. (which i dont) I
> might also comment on what I had heard about the costs of taking all the
> lessons to fly a Boeing 747 and the cost of fuel for taking the plane up for
> an hour and so on.
>
> Now the person who climbed into the plane and attempted to fly it without
> ever having flown would be more than ill prepared, they would be stupid.
> So ... the person asking the question is possibly a bit ill prepared but had
> the sense to ask first. That's quite true.
That's a large difference between us, I guess.I would say, "I dunno, I never
tried. Are you interested in trying, someday?" and if said person said Yes, I
would suggest contacting the Air Force for more information, since they know
more than I do in this aspect. I would also suggest looking at the Boeing web
site. That's it.
The person would NOT be "ill-prepared" because he hadn't said, "Can I fly it?"
but rather, "Is that hard to fly." Two ENTIRELY different questions.
As for whether or not I was 'taking sides," I get defensive of my Timo when
Kristen isn't posting. Whether he was "snide" is a matter of debate... some
might see it as his defense of others to whom you had been "condescending."
The "sides" in this debate have nothing to do with me... Bage is not my sub, so
what he does to his hand is not my business other than hoping that he does find
someone reputable and takes care of the pierce when he's done getting it.
(Which is still not my business, but I don't always mind my business. Besides,
someday he might date someone I care about, and -- quite the far-fetched theory
-- I'd be way squicked if he had a hand infection and made a salad for one of my
friends.)
Now I shall go to the shop and try to save the world some more.
Rebekah
> As it effects a chick and dude I know who got matching webs (between
> thumb and index finger on right hands). They couldnt ride their harleys
> for a good chunk of the summer. It sucked for them.
Do you know how they're faring, now? Did the pierces take?
> And as far as typing speed goes, (while everyone is quite willing to be
> picking at microscopic nits here) I think it depends on your speed. Do not
> tell me that I would be able to hit a buck thirty a minute in spurts the
> way I can now. At least not during healing. I dont buy it for a second.
>
> A HANGNAIL slows me down.
That's cuz you can't spell. (just kidding.)
How ARE they doing with their pierces, anyway?
yttrx
: yttrx wrote:
:> As it effects a chick and dude I know who got matching webs (between
:> thumb and index finger on right hands). They couldnt ride their harleys
:> for a good chunk of the summer. It sucked for them.
: Do you know how they're faring, now? Did the pierces take?
They didnt take.
:> And as far as typing speed goes, (while everyone is quite willing to be
:> picking at microscopic nits here) I think it depends on your speed. Do not
:> tell me that I would be able to hit a buck thirty a minute in spurts the
:> way I can now. At least not during healing. I dont buy it for a second.
:>
:> A HANGNAIL slows me down.
: That's cuz you can't spell. (just kidding.)
: How ARE they doing with their pierces, anyway?
They didnt take. Eventually the constant irritation from throttling
made them both take them out. One of those little things that you dont
think about if you *ahem* HAVE NEVER HAD THEM DONE ON YOURSELF.
Sorry for shouting. Just thought id mention that though. I mean its
cool to have alot of friends and everything that have done all kinds
of fucked up things to themselves, but *ahem* if you HAVENT WALKED
IN THEIR SHOES you REALLY HAVE NO BUSINESS SPEAKING IN THEIR BEHALF.
Ah sorry for typing in all caps again but for some reason this damned
key keeps sticking....must be this hangnail....8)
-----yttrx*
*who is silently wondering how many people will take the stuff he typed
in all caps personally, and incorrectly....
Rebekah
> Let me give an example. Let's say that I am standing next to boeing 747
> jet aircraft. Someone comes up and says, "Is that hard to fly?". I
> think it is reasonable to assume this person does not understand flying at
> all. Anyone who has flown knows that Jets are considered more difficult to
> fly than propeller planes. If this person flew, then they would know that.
> Common sense would also tell most people that a large jet aircraft with more
> controls and so on was probably a bigger challenge than other planes. This
> example does not apply fully to this case, but it is an example of infering
> that someone is ill-prepared based on the fact they asked a question.
I asked my mother what she would say if someone came up to her
and asked, "Is that hard to fly?"
She said that she would say, "No."
I thought that she was kidding. She said No, Bill Cullen, a member
of the Caterpillar club, said that he didn't know why it required
extra training time because it's not that difficult.
I guess that my assumption of YES would have been wrong.
So ya see, everyone, just because something looks to be out of reach
doesn't necessarily mean that it is.
(But I'd still send the person to the Boeing web page, cuz that's what I do.)
AWAP
>important, you are fucking nuts to get a webbing piercing, in my HUMBLE
>opinion.
That's what people say aboot voluntary finger amputees and typing, but I talk
to finger amputees online and they respond faster than I do with 10 fingers.
Besides, most people online only type with one hand anyway.
Shawn/SPC
*"Is that a subincision in your Pocket, or are you just glad to see me?"*
Shawn Porter Collection: aw...@aol.com http://www.bme.freeq.com/spc
"In clandestine clinics fugitive technicians experimented with test-tube babies
and cuttings" William Burroughs
Shannon Larratt / BME
>And as far as typing speed goes, (while everyone is quite willing to be
>picking at microscopic nits here) I think it depends on your speed. Do not
>tell me that I would be able to hit a buck thirty a minute in spurts the
>way I can now. At least not during healing. I dont buy it for a second.
Perhaps. I type a solid 60 words per minute and it had no effect.
timo
>
<snipped>
> to heal correctly, myself included. Thus, I was saying that if you are
> idea to get the piercing.
But by asking the questions, original poster is preparing zirself
for the piercing. Your point _may_ be true, if you added that
the person is not ready to do the piercing _yet_.
I, for example, have been contemplating doing both a deep shaft
apadravya, and a meatotomy. I am just beginning to feel comfy
with the idea of actually performing this on myself, and I have
been asking questions about it for 6 months + (Thank you's to,
Keith, Derek, Shannon, and _many_ others). One has to start
somewhere, Geoffrey.
> If this piercing is safe and commonplace, please post a list of persons who
> have performed it successfuly on more than a few persons. Please post a set
<snipped>
...and if I were familiar with the piercing to discuss it, I
certainly would have by now.
>
> I find it strange that this thread is about criticizing how I answered the
> question. Though some have asserted that I am wrong and they are right and
> thus the piercing is safe, nobody has answered bagelers question.
Nobody has said any such thing. Obviously, save shannon, we are
not knowledgeable enough to discuss this in any great detail.
Though to be fair to original poster, I'm not going to tell zir
that it should not be done.
<snipped>
<snipped>
<snipped again>
> Your assertion that I think "I know it all" is bullshit and belies the
> things I have said.
Funny. Maybe that just how you come across.
> In fact, I am quite clear on many occasions that I do
> not know it all and I am open when there is some gap in my knowledge and
> information. When I have judgements I back them up or, if I am wrong, I
> back down.
>
> You on the other hand seem very quick to judge.
Yep.
> I thought this news group was aboout knowledge and open sharing of
> information. I did exactly that. I added an antecdote and an analogy to
> demonstrate my thoughts. I acknowledged the limits of what I knew and the
> fact it was hearsay. People have chosen to attack me. Possibly they do
> not like my style or approach. Possibly people do not like my failure to
> go with the group or with cherished beliefs the group holds.
People? They? Hmmm...
--
timo
LMSGU WorldWide
Rebekah
wendy wrote:
> [snip Geoffrey's rant]
>
> I do think that some people have problems to your approach. It is one
> thing to share an experience you have had, but it is quite another to
> extrapolate from your knowledge of anatomy to giving a definitive answer
> on the viability of hand web piercings.
>
> No one on rab has the right to tell someone what one should and should
> not be doing with their bodies, or telling others that they lack the
> "superior knowledge" required to heal a piercing. It is the
> responsibility of the individual to gather enough information to make
> their own educated decision. IMHO, the correct response to Bagler's post
> would be to either give advice based on *personal* experience, or to
> direct him to someone who has. In other words, if you don't have
> anything constructive to add, then it is really not necessary for you to
> post a response.
>
> Also, you might not have understood Rebekah's joke of
> alt.geoffrey.inmyhumbleopinion. Geoffrey, you post too much. Since
> August 1, you have post over 550 times to rab. You respond to almost
> every post in every thread, and it is almost always a long IHMO
> response. While we value your contribution, this is a discussion group,
> not the on-line Ask Geoffrey column.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Wendy
Wendy, I never knew you had it in you.Reading your entire post, it looks as
though our quick-witted friend knows how to answer a question... politely and
concisely. Please post more, hunnie!!!!
*>smak<*
Rebekah
p.s. I can't take credit... Wendy came up with the brilliant
alt.geoffrey.inmyhumbleopinion
wendy
[snip]
> I thought this news group was aboout knowledge and open sharing of
> information. I did exactly that. I added an antecdote and an analogy to
> demonstrate my thoughts. I acknowledged the limits of what I knew and the
> fact it was hearsay. People have chosen to attack me. Possibly they do
> not like my style or approach. Possibly people do not like my failure to
> go with the group or with cherished beliefs the group holds.
[snip]
Geoffrey,
LadyRaeven
>
>Shawn/SPC
*ROFL*
That was totally not what i expected (though i suppose i should have expected
it)... That was funny. Hee hee... *giggle*
Adrianna
"I don't have a .sig file, the Dog ate it... Honest!"
~Visit Me~
http://members.aol.com/LadyRaeven/index.html
Moonkey 80
HOLY CRAP PEOPLE! I come home from a relaxing day in the mountains [er, maybe
not relaxing--all the family and a bunch of strangers... hmmm] to 23 posts?!
Wow... that's all I gotta say... I mean, its not quite up to Saccharine9a
level, but golly jeez!
I don't mean to antagonize anybody... but Geoffrey, didn't you say something
about quitting this thread? Hmmm... Sorry.
Well, why don't we all just go get some new steel and be on our merry little
ways...
Not in the mood for more bickering,
~Xx Adie xX~
*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*
HEY! Remove "munists" when replying to me!
*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*
yttrx
: Geoffrey wrote:
: [snip]
: [snip]
: Geoffrey,
Its also not the 'wendy makes all the rules now shut up and listen'
group. Post too much?
Honey, you have NO idea how much ive posted since august 1st. I can
guarantee that.
And another thing. Geoffery, dont worry too much about this negative
response youve been getting. RABbits (with a few exceptions, and you
know who you are) are NOTORIOUS for jumping all over someone for posting
something that would commonly be taken as only _mildly_ offensive.
I call my fight with anne greenbleat as exhibit one.
I got trashed for not agreeing with her incredibly self centered,
egotistical, idiotic, inane and condescending actions and attitude.
But uh oh! I attacked Aardvark! Do you realize how many followers
she has? I had no idea what id gotten myself into until I found
my mailbox full of a hundred responses from fanatical supporters.
Thats right, fanatical supporters.
Thats right, followers.
Thats right, SHEEP. CATTLE. BRAINLESS MORONS.
But this isnt about her.
But it is about being attacked for having an opinion that is
NOT POLITICALLY CORRECT.
Thats right, I said it. Politically Correct. RAB has been infected
with this terrible weight of responsibility, this awful beast
whose rules are thus:
1. Information (knowledge) ought to be free and easy.
2. We must feel guilt and pain if we notice that someone else
is suffering for any reason.
3. We must support any and all people who are doing one or more of the
following:
-attaining knowledge of any kind
-attaining wisdom of any kind, in any way
-attaining some sort of secret, undefined, undisclosed
'spirituality' of any kind, even if they made it up
themselves.
4. It is imperative that no one ever be offended for any reason, ever,
because that leads to confrontation, which leads to a winner
and a loser, which leads to the pain of another that we must
share with them and feel guilty about, mentioned in #1.
5. If you actually manage to have an opinion that is different from
another politically correct person, or more reasonably an opinion
that differs from the massive heathen that populate this planet,
you must at all costs keep it to yourself. Or at best, tell them
that you can agree to disagree and that you expect them to do
the same.
6. We must get highly offended if we notice that someone is not
behaving according to our ruleset. Any deviation from our ruleset
is imperfection. Imperfection will not be tolerated. Imperfection
is our enemy. I am 3245431 of 1000000000. Resistance is futile.
Right. That said, im sure it wont be too difficult to just swallow
another little bit:
Fucking take it to private email already, you goddamned
idiots. Keep it there. If you are going to embarrass yourselves
by being PC zombies, at least do it where I cant see you. It makes
me feel like im going to puke up that raw steak and whisky all over
my new REAL fur coat. And that would just suck.
I think that the thing that I find the most hilarious about this entire
thing is that each time it happens (oh, it happened before the
desertion of Mrs. Greenblatt even, this has been going on in one
form or another for quite a long time.), it happens because a small
group of shitsticks get their panties all in a bundle because of what
someone TYPED.
Thats right, TYPED.
Pen, sword, mightier?
Ascii is Magick, dont forget. And this post, as with most other
inflamatory rhetoric is going to act like a mirror...if a monkey
looks in, no philosopher will look out.
-----yttrx
yttrx
: Thats right, I said it. Politically Correct. RAB has been infected
: with this terrible weight of responsibility, this awful beast
: whose rules are thus:
: 1. Information (knowledge) ought to be free and easy.
This is just plain silly. The fact is it isnt FREE, and it isnt EASY.
If it was, it would be of course as easy as pointing someone to
a FAQ and being done with it. But it isnt, and the
length of this thread proves it.
: 3. We must support any and all people who are doing one or more of the
: following:
: -attaining knowledge of any kind
: -attaining wisdom of any kind, in any way
: -attaining some sort of secret, undefined, undisclosed
: 'spirituality' of any kind, even if they made it up
: themselves.
Even if it includes weird shit like bearing the kavadi or eating
fire ants. Even if the person is a retarded surfer d00d with
a tazmanian devil on his shoulder. He MUST be ready if he WANTS
it. Yeah. Thats the ticket. You know when yer ready. Yup.
: 4. It is imperative that no one ever be offended for any reason, ever,
: because that leads to confrontation, which leads to a winner
: and a loser, which leads to the pain of another that we must
: share with them and feel guilty about, mentioned in #1.
Thats right. I certianly hope this post doesnt actually OFFEND anyone.
: 5. If you actually manage to have an opinion that is different from
: another politically correct person, or more reasonably an opinion
: that differs from the massive heathen that populate this planet,
: you must at all costs keep it to yourself. Or at best, tell them
: that you can agree to disagree and that you expect them to do
: the same.
God help me if I disagree vehemently with another 'popular' person
on RAB. It was hard enough just telling Shannon that I thought
he was fulla shit about the typing thing. I must have done it
nicely though, I dont think I got any private emails about my attitude
that time.
: 6. We must get highly offended if we notice that someone is not
: behaving according to our ruleset. Any deviation from our ruleset
: is imperfection. Imperfection will not be tolerated. Imperfection
: is our enemy. I am 3245431 of 1000000000. Resistance is futile.
I mean jesus, you crazy fuckers are almost as bad as the nation of
goddamn islam.
: Right. That said, im sure it wont be too difficult to just swallow
: another little bit:
: Fucking take it to private email already, you goddamned
: idiots. Keep it there. If you are going to embarrass yourselves
: by being PC zombies, at least do it where I cant see you. It makes
: me feel like im going to puke up that raw steak and whisky all over
: my new REAL fur coat. And that would just suck.
: I think that the thing that I find the most hilarious about this entire
: thing is that each time it happens (oh, it happened before the
: desertion of Mrs. Greenblatt even, this has been going on in one
: form or another for quite a long time.), it happens because a small
: group of shitsticks get their panties all in a bundle because of what
: someone TYPED.
: Thats right, TYPED.
: Pen, sword, mightier?
: Ascii is Magick, dont forget. And this post, as with most other
: inflamatory rhetoric is going to act like a mirror...if a monkey
: looks in, no philosopher will look out.
I feel I need to draw a distinction here.
My altercations with some of the more brain dead typers on this
newsgroup has been almost exclusively because I had major disagreements
with popular posters. 'famous' even.
Geoffery's altercation seems to be because he offended a pure PC
sensibility, which to me is _far_ worse. I had in inkling of
what would happen if I flamed the shit out of anne. I sort of
knew where that train was headed. I always sort of know where
the train is headed. Hell, I know where THIS train is headed.
But Geoffery probably had no idea.
-----yttrx
: -----yttrx
--
AWAP
>by being PC zombies
I'd be more embarrassed to be a MAC ZOMBIE.
blah.... no apples, brains...
Wappy/SPC
vera_causa
> asking the question you are so far from the knowledge it might not be a good
> idea to get the piercing.
Questions are usually asked to GAIN the knowledge. I respect the person
who will admit their lack of info on a topic and ask, don't you?
>
> Going to my analogy, tell me the price. If you can not do that then I
> think you must consist that this is a question without a clear answer just
> as overpriced items without price tags do not have a clear answer as to
> price.
Not saying that you are a bad guy, but the statement is easily taken as
pretentious and snobby by the less informed.
>
> I find it strange that this thread is about criticizing how I answered the
> question.
People are focusing on that because people need to feel secure about
asking here and NOT getting a haughty response or flame.
I never, not once
> said that "questions are bad".
You are right, but the connotation of what you said can EASILY be
interpreted as such...do you understand that at least?
As far as a medical professional's opinion on the pierce (I'm an RN...a
pierced one who has done some limited piercing), its not exactly ideal.
I have done some play piercings in the area without problem, and they
healed quickly, but I would NOT reccommend a permanent pierce.
Again, I have limited piercing experience, but this is my opinion.
v.c.
Rebekah
I am posting it so that everyone knows Geoffrey's thoughts on this topic...
I'm not looking for laudation; indeed, if anyone else things I was out of line,
PLEASE tell me so that I don't offend anyone else!!!!! I had indeed read Geoffrey's
posts in full each time I responded, and that's the only thing I shall say in my
defense.
----------------------------------------------------
Frankly I never thought you were so viscous.
Kindly take some time in a week or so, look at your posts and finally do me
the respect of actually reading mine for content. Then, come to some honest
conclusion with yourself as to whether your response was appropriate,
positive for RAB or simply character assasination against someone who has
made contributions.
Please do not respond to this. I really don't want to hear anything else
from you. You are way out of line.
I will be staying off of RAB for awhile. Possibly forever.
You win. I ask you not to respond. I really don't even want anything
upbeat from you. I honestly thought you were a better person.
Geoffrey
-------------------------------------------------------
Rebekah wrote:
> (only sent to RAB not through private EMail)
>
> OK, Geoffrey I'm posting to RAB because it's out here, despite last night's
> post that you were dropping the whole thing. (Any response should come to RAB,
> since you brought this out to the group. Private EMail at this point would have
> to be posted.)
>
> Assuming that you genuinely believe that your analogy was not condescending.
>
> The "typing speed? You've got to be kidding!" was incredibly condescending.
>
> You stated your friend's experience. That was a Good Thing. You stated your
> concerns. Again, a Good Thing.
>
> Geoffrey wrote:
>
> > If this piercing is safe and commonplace, please post a list of persons who
> > have performed it successfuly on more than a few persons. Please post a set
> > of healing and aftercare procedures that you are prepared to stand behind.
> > Going to my analogy, tell me the price. If you can not do that then I
> > think you must consist that this is a question without a clear answer just
> > as overpriced items without price tags do not have a clear answer as to
> > price.
>
> No one said that the piercing was "commonplace." Shannon said that he knows
> people who have had successes. Shannon's circle of friend includes people who
> don't publicise their mods on RAB. To request a list of names is a bit
> cheeky. It also goes against a recent thread on how our mods are for
> ourselves... and therefore only for others if we WANT to share.
>
> I think that (and this is MY OPINION) that this pierce is NOT common. THAT IS
> WHY BAGE HAD TO ASK. RAB is supposed to be a place where people can ask about
> unusual modifications, isn't it? It's not ALL about common modifications.There
> is a comprehensive list of FAQs. That means FREQUENTLY asked. This pierce is
> unusual enough that it should have sparked a healthy debate, and not another "I
> know an expert who had a bad experience" thread.
>
> > I find it strange that this thread is about criticizing how I answered the
> > question.
>
> Why?
>
> > Though some have asserted that I am wrong and they are right and
> > thus the piercing is safe, nobody has answered bagelers question.
>
> I don't think that it has been said that the pierce is safe for everyone.
> Probably for a very few. The ORIGINAL POST just wanted to hear what the
> experiences of others were, and not to be told, "If you have to ask, don't do
> it."
>
> > I thought this news group was aboout knowledge and open sharing of
> > information. I did exactly that. I added an antecdote and an analogy to
> > demonstrate my thoughts. I acknowledged the limits of what I knew and the
> > fact it was hearsay. People have chosen to attack me. Possibly they do
> > not like my style or approach. Possibly people do not like my failure to
> > go with the group or with cherished beliefs the group holds.
>
> I have tried repeatedly throughout this thread to say that your offerings
> weren't bad, just the way they were presented. You're supposed to be an
> intelligent man who works with people. There's no way you can tell me that you
> can't see how condescening you can be.
>
> Oh, yeah. DO NOT yell at Timo. I know that he's a member of the Little Mean
> Scary Guy Union & can take care of himself. But he & Kristen are my friends,
> and therefore I shall take this opportunity to pull out my Bully Analogy again.
> For shame.
>
> ~ Rebekah
Susan Scaro
>I am posting it so that everyone knows Geoffrey's thoughts on this topic...
>I'm not looking for laudation; indeed, if anyone else things I was out of
line,
>PLEASE tell me so that I don't offend anyone else!!!!! I had indeed read
Geoffrey's
>posts in full each time I responded, and that's the only thing I shall say
in my
>defense.
He sent you private email. You seem to be demonstrating his accusations by
posting it. What netiquette are you following here?
For shame.
Susan
Rebekah
if you follow through my posts on the thread, you'll see that yesterday I
specifically posted that if he responded via private EMail I would post it.
Only because he chose to pick on so many people on RAB instead of doing it via
private EMail.
Message-ID: <3631F4A7...@ziplink.net> if you'd like to check.
When you're reading the thread, please notice how many times I TRIED to say to
him that his points were good but that he was coming off as condescending... it
doesn't matter how good his intentions were if said intentions didn't come
through.
I trashed his EMail to me after I posted it... he had suggestions for me, but if
he's not my friend I don't have to do what he wants.
Good luck with your tattoos.
~ Rebekah
Susan Scaro wrote:
> >I guess the response was to this...
> >I am posting it so that everyone knows Geoffrey's thoughts on this topic...
> >I'm not looking for laudation; indeed, if anyone else things I was out of
> line,
> >PLEASE tell me so that I don't offend anyone else!!!!! I had indeed read
> Geoffrey's
> >posts in full each time I responded, and that's the only thing I shall say
> in my
> >defense.
>
> He sent you private email. You seem to be demonstrating his accusations by
> posting it. What netiquette are you following here?
>
> For shame.
>
> Susan
--
Nicole
>> I am offended by your statements and by Rebekahs toward me. Rebekah
kept
>> after me here and privately despite every statement I made that my
>> intentions were other. I do not understand why you or she want so very
>> dearly to believe other than what I said.
>
>I "kept after you privately" because I had off-topic thoughts that I
thought you
>wouldn't want online. but fine...
>
>Geoffrey, you're a bright guy. But instead of just sharing information, you
have
>a tendency to be downright condescending at times. If no one wants to back
me
>up, I don't care, even tho some have shared the sentiment with me. (Their
>manners are just better than mine.)
I back you up Rebekah. I guess I'm poor mannered too :-) Geoffrey has been
living in my killfile for a month now for his patronising attitude, his
long-windedness and his frequency of posting. I will admit however, that I
took him out of the killfile for this thread because it didn't make any
sense until I had Geoffrey's posts (about every second one - you could see
how it might get confusing). However, if he wants to stay - that's fine
with me - that's what killfiles were made for :-)
Nik
b@|+/-1
>>If you are going to embarrass yourselves
>>by being PC zombies
>
>I'd be more embarrassed to be a MAC ZOMBIE.
>
>blah.... no apples, brains...
Dammit Wappy...I view YOUR PORN on a Mac. :P Step off, biznatch!
b@|+/-\1
--
bai...@enteract.com |'In my realm there is Todd
www.enteract.com/~baital |Bertrang but no autoclaves'
baital on EFNet #bodyart | - Drunken RABbit
(Check out my updated Kink page! Do it now!)
b@|+/-1
>If it wasnt for me and people like me driving out the effervescent Anne
>away from RAB (slap mah hand), then this whole thread would have been replaced
>by me saying:
>
>"What the fuck Anne! Quit it with your inane, useless, 'read the faq' posts."
>
>And then everyone could have attacked me instead, and the original poster
>would have had their question answered.
>
>Ah well. I suppose we all have our nits to pick, no?
What the hell? You're not still bitter over that whole thing, are you?
Get over it a'ready!!!
=)
Your Schnookums,
Golgotha
[snip one great freaking post]
Just when I think I got you pegged...that was great.
--
G¤£gð†hå ®
knife girl
<vera_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
>People are focusing on that because people need to feel secure about
>asking here and NOT getting a haughty response or flame.
First of all, this is not a support group. Second, Geoffrey never
said that people shouldn't ask questions. It is a non-issue.
I have to agree with Abraxas's earlier post. All this uproar is more
about the fact that Geoffrey didn't bend over backwards to make sure
he didn't put anyone off. I find the discussion of people's
"security" in the context of Usenet absurd.
Michelle
vera_causa
>
> First of all, this is not a support group. Second, Geoffrey never
> said that people shouldn't ask questions. It is a non-issue.
Did you read the rest of my post?!?!? I made it clear that there was
nothing said by Geoffrey directly telling people asking questions is a
dumb thing.
Michelle, at one point in time YOU too were a newbie to piercing. Im
not saying this group should be a support group, but rather people
should not have to feel intimidated to ask questions. This newsgroup is
not exclusively for card-carrying members of the piercing know-it-all
association. Its an excellent resource of info and that value should be
preserved.
v.c.
Judith Grunberger
> wendy <swe...@bme.freeq.com> wrote:
> : Also, you might not have understood Rebekah's joke of
> : alt.geoffrey.inmyhumbleopinion. Geoffrey, you post too much. Since
> : August 1, you have post over 550 times to rab. You respond to almost
> : every post in every thread, and it is almost always a long IHMO
> : response. While we value your contribution, this is a discussion group,
> : not the on-line Ask Geoffrey column.
>
> Its also not the 'wendy makes all the rules now shut up and listen'
> group. Post too much?
She never said it was. She was busting on Geoffrey.
Dude: alt.geoffrey.inmyhumbleopinion? On-line Ask Geoffrey column?
I think that's fucking HILARIOUS.
Bwhahahahahahaha!
<snip>
> But it is about being attacked for having an opinion that is
> NOT POLITICALLY CORRECT.
Wrong. I believe it is about Geoffrey allegedly being an elitist bore who
can't bring himself to be diplomatic.
This has nothing to do with being PC.
My personal feelings about the principals in this thread shall remain
personal, except maybe in private email. You know who you are.
--
Judith Grunberger * jcoo...@io.com | "no Bad Religion song can
Home page: http://www.io.com/~jcookson | make your life complete"
RAB FAQs: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bodyart/ | Bad Religion, No Direction
vera_causa
Thats soooo pathetic and immature! If one of my patients asked me a
health question, I wouldn't say "Go find out yourself" and I certainly
wouldn't withhold info or belittle them with an inappropriate quote.
The point Geoffrey was trying to make could have been done with a more
appropriate anecdote/quote/vignette. Im not a warrior for the PC cause,
but come on! The anecdote was a lame, poor choice for numerous obvious
reasons listed in the thread!!
> Even if it includes weird shit like bearing the kavadi or eating
> fire ants. Even if the person is a retarded surfer d00d with
> a tazmanian devil on his shoulder. He MUST be ready if he WANTS
> it. Yeah. Thats the ticket. You know when yer ready. Yup.
OK, and you've never asked a question that someone else might find
absurd? It doesn't matter if the person is a "retarded surfer..." as
you so colourfully slam. So are you prejudiced against any other groups
of people?
> Thats right. I certianly hope this post doesnt actually OFFEND anyone.
Not offended, just annoyed at your support of keeping info from being
"free and easy" from someone who asks a question. How can they KNOW
theyre ready if they don't have all the info already? The quest for
some info on this persons part was probably meant to help them decide if
they were ready to go for it or if they wanted to scrap the whole
thing. Its no different than the concept of informed consent.
>
> I mean jesus, you crazy fuckers are almost as bad as the nation of
> goddamn islam.
Well thank you for pissing on the Ayatollah and getting the militant
followers against RAB. People have been assassinated for less offensive
comments to the nation of islam (Im Catholic...this statement was meant
as a simple wake-up to you of the practices of another culture).
> My altercations with some of the more brain dead typers on this
> newsgroup has been almost exclusively because I had major disagreements
> with popular posters. 'famous' even.
And there you go again, ripping other people down because your 'smarter'
than they are. Maybe thats why youre in killfiles.
By the way, yttrx, if your real name is Jocelyn, please email me ASAP.
Otherwise, I would advise you to consider the consequences of offending
people/cultures in your posts before you write anything.
v.c.
Rebekah
just learn about hand web piercing.
> knife girl wrote:
> Second, Geoffrey never said that people shouldn't ask questions. It
> is a non-issue.
vera_causa wrote:
> I made it clear that there was nothing said by Geoffrey directly
> telling people asking questions is a dumb thing.
I don't understand this. It sounds like the two of you agree.
Thing was, Geoffrey belittled the question by saying that if it needs to
be asked, you're not ready for the pierce.
I've noticed that a LOT of the people who have defended Geoffrey both on
RAB and in private conversations have agreed that he was pompous in this
issue. That's too bad; it's like he was TRYING to see how far he'd push
us before he alienated us all.
Now, of course, I can't help but hope that he's not this condescending
at home... it's possible for even the strongest of women to be crushed
by the right bully.
~ Rebekah
--
Kensington wrist pad ad: "...The result is a workspace that not only
works for you, but is uniquely you."
"But you have the same one!" ~ Susan Webb, 10/21/98
b@|+/-1
wrote:
>Thing was, Geoffrey belittled the question by saying that if it needs to
>be asked, you're not ready for the pierce.
>
>I've noticed that a LOT of the people who have defended Geoffrey both on
>RAB and in private conversations have agreed that he was pompous in this
>issue. That's too bad; it's like he was TRYING to see how far he'd push
>us before he alienated us all.
In case you hadn't NOTICED, yttrx and Golgotha do this almost every
damn day. You deal with them having their opinions and being
smartasses, so why have you decided to come down on Geoffrey like a
ton of bricks? If you're going to bitch about one person acting a
certian way, you better be damn ready to bitch about EVERYONE who acts
this way (And I think just about all of us have had at least one post
of that nature).
>Now, of course, I can't help but hope that he's not this condescending
>at home... it's possible for even the strongest of women to be crushed
>by the right bully.
And this is just completely uncalled for.
Feeling just a trifle bitchy,
b@|+/-1
<vera_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Otherwise, I would advise you to consider the consequences of offending
>people/cultures in your posts before you write anything.
Am I the only person who finds this UTTERLY F*CKING HILARIOUS in light
of what yttrx wrote?
Raising awareness with a few pounds of plastic explosives,
b@|+/-1
>On Mon, 26 Oct 1998 13:47:03 -0500, Rebekah <Rebekah...@yale.edu>
>wrote:
<snip of private email wherein Rebekah described a dream she'd had of
Geoffrey bringing harm upon a loved one>
Rebekah,
I personally feel it is wrong to let your personal opinion of a person
reflect in how you treat them in a public forum. If you started having
nightmares about yttrx beating up me, or Golgotha beating his wife,
would you start tearing them apart on RAB?
I realize you are/have been in some form of therapy in the past, and I
would kindly ask you to please realize that not all of us can be privy
to your delusions, and to distribute your wrath equally amongst all
guilty parties.
Thank you,
Anne Marie
wrote:
Rebekah...
I don't know what exactly is going on between you and Geoffry, but
it's probably more then meets the (NG-readers) eye. You might reply it
is not my business, but you kinda force this thing into the NG, and
let everybody 'enjoy'.
I don't know Geoffry in person, I just know him as a person who is
writing a lotta mail. Sometimes he's a bit condescending, but mostly
seriously responding to the mail. I have nothing against him and I'm
trying to keep it that way. Please rebekah, keep your personal
preferences to yourself, and let the other RABbits decide for
themselves what they think or belief and don't try to influence them
by writing things like this;
>Now, of course, I can't help but hope that he's not this condescending
>at home... it's possible for even the strongest of women to be crushed
>by the right bully.
Regards...
/\nne /\/\arie
Netherlands.
E-mail can be sent to: kril...@cybercomm.nl
Flkdanrlee
Geoffrey was warned that his reply would be posted, but at this point it's
getting petty and silly. Some people didn't like what he said, he defended it.
Everyone's made their point now, haven't they? I feel like we're all filling
out a big Slam book now.-------Melissa
Rebekah
it, and all of my other posts on this particular Geoffrey thread,
removed.
I apologize if my genuine concern was misconstrued as cattiness. I
guess Geoffrey isn't the only one who can be unclear on RAB.
b@|+/-1
wrote:
>(EMailed & posted)
>
>b@|+/-1 wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:25:37 GMT, bai...@enteract.com (b@|+/-1) wrote:
>>
>> >On Mon, 26 Oct 1998 13:47:03 -0500, Rebekah <Rebekah...@yale.edu>
>>
>> >wrote:
>>
>> <snip of private email wherein Rebekah described a dream she'd had of
>> Geoffrey bringing harm upon a loved one>
>>
>> Rebekah,
>>
>> I personally feel it is wrong to let your personal opinion of a person
>>
>> reflect in how you treat them in a public forum. If you started having
>>
>> nightmares about yttrx beating up me, or Golgotha beating his wife,
>> would you start tearing them apart on RAB?
>
>I would if you kill-filed me, so that someone could tell you. (They
>don't want EMail from me. I told you via private EMail since maybe you
>still talk to them. I can't believe that someone could be as
>condescending and petty as Geoffrey online & not have it seep into his
>real life.)
I find that pretty funny, since I've found that the majority of the
time, people are a LOT more willing to be condescending and petty
online where there are no repurcussions beyond flaming. I've met
people (Hi Gonzo!) who I thought were complete assholes online (Either
on RAB (Hi Golgotha!) or on IRC (Hi Keith!), but who turned out to be
downright NICE once met in person...Well, except maybe yttrx.
Geoffrey's attitude is pleasant compared to some of the derisive crap
I've heard.
>Never picked on yttrx cuz, well, sorry to disappoint him OR gol, but
>neither of them was as offensive to other RABbits. I began talking to
>Geoffrey via private EMail regarding this thread, until he took it upon
>himself to scream at me on RAB. If yttrx or gol was being so dopey, of
>course I'd begin via private EMail.
Have you been paying attention??? -I- get offended by some of the crap
yttrx spouts, and I LIVE WITH HIM!!!
>btw... are you & yttrx the only people who are supporting Geoffrey? Up
>until this thread, i was among the supporters. As a former friend, I
>can't help but be curious.
I'm not supporting Geoffrey at all. He's on his own. He's a big boy,
he can handle himself. I'm just stating my opinion, which is that
everyone who opens their fat mouth deserves to get a boot placed in
it, and that there should be no such thing as 'Selective
Dickslapping'.
Let all suffer equally.
>Kensington wrist pad ad: "...The result is a workspace that not only
>works for you, but is uniquely you."
>"But you have the same one!" ~ Susan Webb, 10/21/98
>members.aol.com/ta2intl/tattoo.htm www.askjeeves.com -- search engine
>FAQs- http://www.eskimo.com/~rab http://www.achilles.net/~dextra/spako
Oh, and BTW, your .sig is a little lengthy.
Golgotha
>Wasn't it suggested at one point that this go to private e-mail.
--
G¤£ 'If you like pina coladas...' gð†hå ®
b@|+/-1
<golg...@bme.freeq.com> wrote:
>Flkdanrlee wrote:
>>Wasn't it suggested at one point that this go to private e-mail.
>Yes, but it was suggested by me...so it really doesn't count.
Exactly. You suck, Gol.
Seeya tomorrow. =)
vera_causa
Im on your side!!!! Don't get me wrong!!!
> I don't understand this. It sounds like the two of you agree.
>
> Thing was, Geoffrey belittled the question by saying that if it needs to
> be asked, you're not ready for the pierce.
YES. But he didn't come out and literally say "Your question is
stupid". He could have made the point of "find out more info. before
you go and impale thyself" MUCH more tactfully. His anecdote made it
sound as if questions meant you weren't ready...yadda yadda yadda.
Beats the hell outta me why yttrx and Golgatha are so gung-ho about
defending him. Sounds to me like they enjoy the flame war.
>it's like he was TRYING to see how far he'd push
> us before he alienated us all.
yuppers. I agree.
By the way, in your posting about the AOL BOC, I don't think youre a
snitch. You did the right thing, and most people *WOULD* admire you for
doing something they don't have the guts to do.
Rebekah wrote:
>
> I changed the Subject line for anyone who wants to skip this thread &
> just learn about hand web piercing.
>
> > knife girl wrote:
> > Second, Geoffrey never said that people shouldn't ask questions. It
> > is a non-issue.
>
> vera_causa wrote:
>
> > I made it clear that there was nothing said by Geoffrey directly
> > telling people asking questions is a dumb thing.
>
> I don't understand this. It sounds like the two of you agree.
>
> Thing was, Geoffrey belittled the question by saying that if it needs to
> be asked, you're not ready for the pierce.
>
> I've noticed that a LOT of the people who have defended Geoffrey both on
> RAB and in private conversations have agreed that he was pompous in this
> issue. That's too bad; it's like he was TRYING to see how far he'd push
> us before he alienated us all.
>
> Now, of course, I can't help but hope that he's not this condescending
> at home... it's possible for even the strongest of women to be crushed
> by the right bully.
>
> ~ Rebekah
>
> --
Golgotha
>In case you hadn't NOTICED, yttrx and Golgotha do this almost every
>damn day. You deal with them having their opinions and being
>smartasses,
but lil ol me? I'm just an innocent bystandered. A victim in a virtual
drive by. *snif* ;)~
vera_causa
However, there are very REAL consequences in the REAL world that are NO
laughing matter. If you think offending people in ANY forum is just
peachy, then go to some Iranian Muslim newsgroup and post something to
defame their religion. A certain Mr. Rushdie knows all too well what
offending another culture can do.
Go ahead, try it if you find my words on offending people so damn
hilarious.
v.c.
Rebekah
> Have you been paying attention??? -I- get offended by some of the crap
>
> yttrx spouts, and I LIVE WITH HIM!!!
I *don't* live with him, so I can afford to find him hysterical :)
> I'm not supporting Geoffrey at all. He's on his own. He's a big boy,
> he can handle himself. I'm just stating my opinion, which is that
> everyone who opens their fat mouth deserves to get a boot placed in
> it, and that there should be no such thing as 'Selective
> Dickslapping'.
Damn, and that sounds like such fun...
> Let all suffer equally.
>
> >Kensington wrist pad ad: "...The result is a workspace that not only
>
> >works for you, but is uniquely you."
> >"But you have the same one!" ~ Susan Webb, 10/21/98
> >members.aol.com/ta2intl/tattoo.htm www.askjeeves.com -- search
> engine
> >FAQs- http://www.eskimo.com/~rab
> http://www.achilles.net/~dextra/spako
>
> Oh, and BTW, your .sig is a little lengthy.
>
One friggin line.
Oh well, I guess that fits in with non-selective dickslapping. I'll
change it as soon as someone says something clever.
Golgotha
>nightmares about yttrx beating up me,
>or Golgotha beating his wife,
>would you start tearing them apart on RAB?
For the record, let it be known in RAB and in the world that I do not and
have not ever beat my wife.
--
G¤£ 'stil curious how I ended up in this stupid thread.' gð†hå ®
sca...@my-dejanews.com
Reb...@bme.freeq.com wrote:
> I changed the Subject line for anyone who wants to skip this thread &
> just learn about hand web piercing.
> Thing was, Geoffrey belittled the question by saying that if it needs to
> be asked, you're not ready for the pierce.
>
> I've noticed that a LOT of the people who have defended Geoffrey both on
> RAB and in private conversations have agreed that he was pompous in this
> issue. That's too bad; it's like he was TRYING to see how far he'd push
> us before he alienated us all.
>
Excuse me, but I've had about enough of this. Geoffrey APOLOGIZED for his
phrasing, and tried to make clear that he did not intend to offend anyone.
If every one here can say they've never said or posted things that were
misunderstood, well I guess you're all just paragons, aren't you?
Have you heard of letting go? You've become obsessed, and it's making me
think that what's wrong with you is no small thing. Have you gone off your
medication or something?
> Now, of course, I can't help but hope that he's not this condescending
> at home... it's possible for even the strongest of women to be crushed
> by the right bully.
Is this any of your business? Bully? Funny, it seems like the only one trying
to bully anyone is good ole twisting-facts,
everyones-ganging-up-on-someone-and-
on-my-side-so-I-think-I'll-beat-it-to-death Rebekah.
Why don't you mind your own business and straighten out your own private life,
you female-dog-in-heat (there, now you can't report me to anyone!)
Drop it. Go away. Get a life.
Susan
>
> ~ Rebekah
>
> --
> Kensington wrist pad ad: "...The result is a workspace that not only
> works for you, but is uniquely you."
> "But you have the same one!" ~ Susan Webb, 10/21/98
> members.aol.com/ta2intl/tattoo.htm www.askjeeves.com -- search engine
> FAQs- http://www.eskimo.com/~rab http://www.achilles.net/~dextra/spako
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Golgotha
>One friggin line.
>Oh well, I guess that fits in with non-selective dickslapping. I'll
>change it as soon as someone says something clever.
something clever.
Rebekah
> YES. But he didn't come out and literally say "Your question is
> stupid".
He also said, "Typing speed? You've got to be kidding."I see the
teeniest of fine lines here...
> He could have made the point of "find out more info. before
> you go and impale thyself" MUCH more tactfully. His anecdote made it
> sound as if questions meant you weren't ready...yadda yadda yadda.
> Beats the hell outta me why yttrx and Golgatha are so gung-ho about
> defending him. Sounds to me like they enjoy the flame war.
>
> >it's like he was TRYING to see how far he'd push
> > us before he alienated us all.
>
> yuppers. I agree.
>
> By the way, in your posting about the AOL BOC, I don't think youre a
> snitch. You did the right thing, and most people *WOULD* admire you
> for
> doing something they don't have the guts to do.
AOL has these rules that members are supposed to follow, and they don't
give a rat's ass about enforcing them... unless it makes them look
good. They won't do anything anyway. But thanks anyway.
Damn I wish I'd posted the EMail from Geoffrey about a month ago, where
he said that he knows he's brusque, and could I point him in the right
direction when he got out of line. I did so, via private EMail, and
also sent him little encouragements when he done good, until I got
trashed. Someone who still likes him is more than welcome to ask him if
I could post said EMail... I'm sure that I have it somewhere.
Rebekah
> For the record, let it be known in RAB and in the world that I do not
> and
> have not ever beat my wife.
no psychic dreams about you, sweets :)
> G¤£ 'stil curious how I ended up in this stupid thread.' gð†hå ®
Easy: keyword = STUPID.
smooch, Me
yttrx
: Rebekah-
: Im on your side!!!! Don't get me wrong!!!
:> I don't understand this. It sounds like the two of you agree.
:>
:> Thing was, Geoffrey belittled the question by saying that if it needs to
:> be asked, you're not ready for the pierce.
: YES. But he didn't come out and literally say "Your question is
: stupid". He could have made the point of "find out more info. before
: you go and impale thyself" MUCH more tactfully. His anecdote made it
: sound as if questions meant you weren't ready...yadda yadda yadda.
: Beats the hell outta me why yttrx and Golgatha are so gung-ho about
: defending him. Sounds to me like they enjoy the flame war.
Geoffery is a big boy and can defend himself as he pleases.
What I am doing is railing against that which annoys me, namely
incredible narrow minded PC-ness and stupidity.
:)
-----yttrx
yttrx
: Damn I wish I'd posted the EMail from Geoffrey about a month ago, where
: he said that he knows he's brusque, and could I point him in the right
: direction when he got out of line. I did so, via private EMail, and
: also sent him little encouragements when he done good, until I got
: trashed. Someone who still likes him is more than welcome to ask him if
: I could post said EMail... I'm sure that I have it somewhere.
You'll make alot of enemies by posting private email.
-----yttrx
Golgotha
>vera_causa <vera_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>: sound as if questions meant you weren't ready...yadda yadda yadda.
>: Beats the hell outta me why yttrx and Golgatha are so gung-ho about
>: defending him. Sounds to me like they enjoy the flame war.
>Geoffery is a big boy and can defend himself as he pleases.
>What I am doing is railing against that which annoys me, namely
>incredible narrow minded PC-ness and stupidity.
I'm not doing anything damnit! Are you using my name incognito there Brax?
--
G¤£ 'the real deal' gð†hå ®
knife girl
<vera_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Did you read the rest of my post?!?!? I made it clear that there was
>nothing said by Geoffrey directly telling people asking questions is a
>dumb thing.
Yes, I read the rest of your post. I am not interested in getting
into an argument with you, despite the fact that you're hurling those
punctuation marks at me. I will agree that your post went on to say
that he didn't _overtly_ say that people shouldn't ask questions, but
that it "can EASILY be interpreted as such." You seem to be saying
that you did not interpret it this way but that others might. If you
interpreted Geoffrey's statement the way he intended it, what makes
you think that others will not?
>Michelle, at one point in time YOU too were a newbie to piercing. Im
>not saying this group should be a support group, but rather people
>should not have to feel intimidated to ask questions. This newsgroup is
>not exclusively for card-carrying members of the piercing know-it-all
>association. Its an excellent resource of info and that value should be
>preserved.
Yes, I was new to piercing once. And guess what? I (and a whole lot
of other people) managed to get myself pierced up without this
newsgroup, and without anyone going out of their way not to intimidate
me. You can not possibly be trying to say that I only want to hear
from the "piercing know-it-all association". If you are, I have no
idea where you got that. I do believe that this newsgroup _can_ be an
excellent resource, but it has no obligation to be.
Michelle
Rebekah
un-P.C.
Rebekah :)
yttrx wrote:
--
knife girl
<vera_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Thats soooo pathetic and immature! If one of my patients asked me a
>health question, I wouldn't say "Go find out yourself" and I certainly
>wouldn't withhold info or belittle them with an inappropriate quote.
As a health professional, you are obligated to answer your patients'
questions. I think it is safe to say that the vast majority of people
who contribute to this newsgroup are _not_ professional tattoo artists
or piercers and do not have that kind of obligation.
Michelle