Using the rLab vacuum former

[Sen]

Hello there,

I was just wondering...

Can non members can use the vacuum former?

If so, what are the costs?

Let me know.

Thanks

Sen

(London based)

[Tony Short]

Unfortunately our machines are only usable by members who have done the appropriate inductions for the space and the tools they wish to use.

Tony

[Sen]

Can I ask what the cost to join and undertake an induction would be?

I am experienced in 3D printing and have had a laser cutter induction at Createspace London...

[Steve]

It's normally £20/month to join, best bet is to come along one wednesday
evening open night and you'll get the tour and maybe signed up.
Inductions are usually provided free by people who're experienced with
the machines.

Steve

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[Tony Short]

Steve is almost right, but its actually a suggested donation of £25 a month.

Induction to the space is an hour. The vac former doesn't have an induction as no one really uses it, but there is a manual to look at.

Other machines have inductions that vary in length from 15mins to 3 hours.

T

On Thursday, 14 June 2018 17:27:14 UTC+1, Steve wrote:

It's normally £20/month to join, best bet is to come along one wednesday
evening open night and you'll get the tour and maybe signed up.
Inductions are usually provided free by people who're experienced with
the machines.

Steve

Sen wrote:
> Can I ask what the cost to join and undertake an induction would be?
>
> I am experienced in 3D printing and have had a laser cutter induction at
> Createspace London...
>
> On Thursday, 14 June 2018 15:59:12 UTC+1, Tony Short wrote:
>
>     Unfortunately our machines are only usable by members who have done
>     the appropriate inductions for the space and the tools they wish to use.
>
>     Tony
>
> --
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> <mailto:reading-hackspace+unsub...@googlegroups.com>.

[Sen]

That's great, thanks. I would be happy to pay the £25, but is there any way that I could get started before next Wednesday. Would there be anyone around on Saturday or Monday if I came along in the day or evening?

If so, it would be really helpful...

On Thursday, 14 June 2018 18:59:01 UTC+1, Tony Short wrote:

Steve is almost right, but its actually a suggested donation of £25 a month.

Induction to the space is an hour. The vac former doesn't have an induction as no one really uses it, but there is a manual to look at.

Other machines have inductions that vary in length from 15mins to 3 hours.

T

On Thursday, 14 June 2018 17:27:14 UTC+1, Steve wrote:

It's normally £20/month to join, best bet is to come along one wednesday
evening open night and you'll get the tour and maybe signed up.
Inductions are usually provided free by people who're experienced with
the machines.

Steve

Sen wrote:
> Can I ask what the cost to join and undertake an induction would be?
>
> I am experienced in 3D printing and have had a laser cutter induction at
> Createspace London...
>
> On Thursday, 14 June 2018 15:59:12 UTC+1, Tony Short wrote:
>
>     Unfortunately our machines are only usable by members who have done
>     the appropriate inductions for the space and the tools they wish to use.
>
>     Tony
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "rLab / Reading's Hackspace" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send

> an email to reading-hacksp...@googlegroups.com

[Steve]

Well I'm in all Saturday running a workshop on blade-smithing so I could
show you around the space when we break for lunch but to get signed up
you'll really need Gavin and I think for an introduction to the
thermoformer you'll need to get in touch with Ian.

Steve

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[Malcolm Napier]

I am also interested in the vacuum forming part of the Thermoforming machine as indicated here: https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/reading-hackspace/VZuaxOqzFX4

I am not clear from Tony's post whether we are free to read the manual and work things out for ourselves (possibly developing an induction along the way) or whether we need to wait for someone who knows how to use the machine (to my knowledge that is Ian and/or Andy) to develop an induction and then attend that.

If we are able to work things out for ourselves, I can meet you at rLab but not until a week on Saturday (22 June).

[Ian Petrie]

It  is quite straightforward to use and the manual is clear. Doesn't need an induction. Go for it.

There is some vac form plastic in the red cupboard. Couple of quid a sheet please.

Post pictures/videos

Ian

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[Norro]

If I 3D print a form, is that likely to work or melt?

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[Steve]

Not personally tried this but probably melt, the vac former needs to
heat the plastic to 150-175C to form it properly and regular PLA softens
at less than 60C. The vacuum exerts substantial compressive forces on
the former so if it's at all soft it's likely to be crushed or at least
distorted.

There's a high-temp filament you can get that's solid to 130C which
might work with some care but usually forms are made of wood for small
runs or metal for larger ones.

Steve

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[Alex Gibson]

IF you use ABS, rather than PLA, and don’t leave it hanging about, it should be fine.

Melting isn’t the problem – any time spent over the glass transition temperature of the plastic will cause it to gently sag or ease into any forces acting on it.

IF you 3D print the former in ABS, with multiple perimeter walls for some thermal inertia, and you can even pop it in the fridge before use, it all serves to ensure the former stays rigid and can serve more than one use. 

When removing the newly vac formed plastic, this is the moment the former is most likely to be a little soft.  Carefully remove it with a metal spatula, and pop it somewhere to cool down.

 

 

Alex Gibson

 

+44 7813 810 765    @alexgibson3d    37 Royal Avenue, Reading RG31 4UR

 

admg consulting

 

edumaker limited

 

·         Project management

·         Operations & Process improvement

·         3D Printing

[Ian Petrie]

If you are only pulling thin plastic then I doubt there would be enough heat in the material to damage the mould. A spray of release - WD40? - should stop local sticking.

Pulling thicker plastic would be more of a problem as there is more heat in the material to be got rid of.

The main problem is probably heat passing through to the mould while the plastic to be moulded is heated - the mould sits under the plastic while it is heated from above then, when the lever is pulled, the mould is pushed up from below as the vacuum sucks the hot plastic down.

My guess ( and just a guess ) is that an abs print would probably work with a lower melting point forming plastic

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[Senake]

Steve/Gain,

I need to get some tooling ready too, so would also prefer to come over on the Saturday 22nd or 29th June rather than tomorrow. 

Can I ask what size and colour the plastic in the cupboard is? If I wanted to order get my own, is the maximum size 305x305mm and thickness 5mm?

Also, to avoid clashing with other users, is there an online booking format or anything? 

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[Alex Gibson]

Alternative way to make a former:

 

Use the shapeoko, and CNC mill it from insulation board.  I have some spare chunks of ~75mm thick celotex if you want to try.  The Shapeoko will cut this like butter and very precisely if tuned right.  As this is a very low resistance, you should be able to get away with one small tool, saving much (but not all) of the complexity of generating a toolpath.  Fusion 360 seems to be the ‘in’ toolpath generator, not that I have used it myself yet.

 

Cheers.

 

Alex Gibson

 

+44 7813 810 765    @alexgibson3d    37 Royal Avenue, Reading RG31 4UR

 

admg consulting

 

edumaker limited

 

·         Project management

·         Operations & Process improvement

·         3D Printing

 

From: vet...@gmail.com [mailto:vet...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Ian Petrie
Sent: 15 June 2018 14:15
To: Reading Hackspace
Subject: Re: [RDG-Hack] Re: Using the rLab vacuum former

 

If you are only pulling thin plastic then I doubt there would be enough heat in the material to damage the mould. A spray of release - WD40? - should stop local sticking.

[Steve]

Yes it was the re-radiated heat from the plastic to be formed that was
my concern too, depending on the sheet thickness it might have to spend
several minutes under there being warmed. I guess it does depend quite a
bit on the detail level of the shape to be formed though, large smooth
curves will suffer much less both from heat and forces than small fine
details.

ABS is troublesome to print sometimes and I don't think we have any
handy so if you're going to buy some in, ColorFab-HT or one of the new
ASA based filaments might be a better choice as they have higher thermal
performance and are considerably easier to print.

Steve

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[Alex Gibson]

+1 for ASA for this application. ABS is easier to get hold of and more familiar, but ASA is making rapid inroads and it outperforms ABS in most of its key advantages.

Alex Gibson

+44 7813 810 765 @alexgibson3d 37 Royal Avenue, Reading RG31 4UR

admg consulting

edumaker limited

• Project management
• Operations & Process improvement
• 3D Printing

-----Original Message-----
From: reading-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:reading-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: 15 June 2018 14:28
To: reading-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RDG-Hack] Re: Using the rLab vacuum former

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Mark Robson]

It is an interesting idea - try it and see. I suppose the vacuum former machine is unlikely to be damaged, a worst-case scenario is a gooey useless mess of materials.

Mark

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[Alex Gibson]

Here’s a fun video on building your own vacuum forming machine

https://youtu.be/Gx66mS7U2vY

 

Towards the end of the video there is a half-second clip of the guy vacuum forming using a 3D printed form.  He makes the comment that you shouldn’t use materials that will melt –but the forming process clearly worked.

 

I wonder whether his DIY forming ‘machine’ might not have some advantages from the specific point of view of using a 3D print as a former – as he has to remove the hot plastic sheet from an oven and place it on his vacuum table, the only source of heat is the plastic sheet itself – there’s no heat soak in the tool.

 

The vacuum table looks easy enough to make, so if your 3D printed formers don’t fare too well in the thermoforming machine itself, you could just use it to heat the sheet and transfer to a DIY vacuum table?

 

Cheers,

 

Alex Gibson

 

+44 7813 810 765    @alexgibson3d    37 Royal Avenue, Reading RG31 4UR

 

admg consulting

 

edumaker limited

 

·         Project management

·         Operations & Process improvement

·         3D Printing

 

From: reading-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:reading-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Robson
Sent: 15 June 2018 15:01
To: reading-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RDG-Hack] Re: Using the rLab vacuum former

 

It is an interesting idea - try it and see. I suppose the vacuum former machine is unlikely to be damaged, a worst-case scenario is a gooey useless mess of materials.

 

Mark