Roadini!

[John G.]

According to Instagram and the RBW newsletter, Roadini pre-orders are live for the general public! Anyone on the list order one yet? If so, what size and color did you go for?

[Christopher Cote]

Have they published the geometry? I see the sizing chart, but I'm curious about the rest of the geometry. Not in the market for one, so I won't waste their time with a call or email.

Chris

[Belopsky]

Just like with everything they sell - lift the sack and there you go ;)

[Christopher Cote]

I can't even begin to guess what that means.

Chris

[iamkeith]

You must have adequate standover clearance then.

[Chris Birkenmaier]

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 8:54:35 AM UTC-4, John G. wrote:

According to Instagram and the RBW newsletter, Roadini pre-orders are live for the general public! Anyone on the list order one yet? If so, what size and color did you go for?

John I was on the earlier email notification for the Roadini and ordered a 50 in blue.  I'm getting it repainted by D&D so I kind of didn't care which one I ordered.  However, according to the newsletter the gray was more popular so I picked the blue one.

Anyone want to share their build plans on the Roadini?

[John Bokman]

That Blue looks nice!

Trying to decide if the Roadeo is worth the extra bones. I really love the aesthetics of the Roadeo (close to parallel top tube rather than upsloping), but based on the literature I've seen, hard to justify the extra cash based on ride quality.

[Bill Lindsay]

No, they have not published the geometry.  If you are curious, you really should call them.  They are bound to be excited about it.  It's clearly got a longer chainstay than a 'traditional road bike'.  The seat tube angle is certainly 71.5 or 72.  The head tube angle is probably 72 or 73.  About 45mm of fork rake.  I'm sure they would talk to you about it if you called. 

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

[Patrick Moore]

Segueing off this, a request: will those who ride both the Roadeo and the Roadini tell us how they are different and how the are the same?

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[DaveS]

I'm in for a blue 61. Dave was very helpful sizing off my Bombadil specs

[Daniel D.]

50 blue! But I may go down to riv to see the colors in person. I was planning to buy only the frame and silver cranks from riv. But I'll wait until I see what they offer for completes/kits before I start buying parts.

[Daniel D.]

Nice, I'm too much of a skin flint to get a new bike repainted. I would love a black cherry/maroon or a blue it's almost black bike.

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 7:20:28 AM UTC-7, Chris Birkenmaier wrote:

[John G.]

I went for a 61cm blue, BTW. Lots of functional overlap with my Black Mountain Cycles Road, but I'll probably keep them in different locations. And I'm sure they'll ride plenty different. Bikes r cool.

[Chris Birkenmaier]

Well I tend to agree.  But I have a light blue San Marcos and am getting the new mountain mixte in blue.  Just too much of the light blue family.  I'm thinking of metallic black or dark chocolate for the Roadini

[Daniel D.]

I was choosing between the two. Decided to go riv for a few reasons Nicest bike shop I've ever visited, wanted to support that with a purchase. I'm in middle of the recommended size range, usually I'm choosing between a smaller size or a bigger size. If nothing else I'll have a bike that's pretty dang comfortable.

[Bill Lindsay]

That seat cluster is awesome.  I really like the dropout detail shots in today's newsletter mailer.  

Pay attention to the fact that you can't use your vintage 28.6mm front der.  You need a 31.8 to fit that tapered seat tube.

BL in EC

[John Bokman]

Looks like the tubing is different, but to what degree I can't say. The statement that the butted ends are cut down to reduce excess heft doesn't mean much to me since I'm ignorant about the process. I do know that I want a light, svelt feeling road bike. However, my new Sam (2017) tube set is considerably heavier than my old (2009 Sam) tube set, and yet it rides like a dream. Those Silver tubes are heavier, yes, noticeably so (to the hand), but the ride is excellent. So perhaps there's no real noticeable difference in ride quality between the two frame sets?

[John Bokman]

Sorry. Was speaking to the differences between the Roadini and Roadeo. Still dreaming in my own mind!

[Justin, Oakland]

Saw them in person after an overnight. Very beautiful frames and very classic road bike looking. Jack Browns look absolutely tiny now after riding 42s and 2.8s only for the past 5 or more years!

I fell into a frame more my price range that runs 650b so I'm not able to do the Roadini. Buyers will be very happy though!

-J

[Daniel D.]

Did they have all sizes, 50 in particular, ready for demo, Justin? Forgot to call today.

[Justin August]

I don't remember. There was at least one shorter than me but I don't think it was built up at that time.

On Aug 3, 2017, 9:11 PM -0700, Daniel D. <dddo...@gmail.com>, wrote:

Did they have all sizes, 50 in particular, ready for demo, Justin? Forgot to call today.

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[William R.]

I put down for a 57cm in "grilver". Most of the parts that I need are in the parts bin, including noodles, simplex dt shifters, xt mech, Brooks b17, and Herse crankset, so it's going to be a pretty nice build. My Appaloosa has been a fit and comfort revelation for me. But I have missed having a drop bar bike. From what geo specs are known, it looks like it will be a similar ride quality to the Joe. Hopefully this will be a "best of both worlds" bike for me. Really looking forward to it!

Bill in Westchester, NY

[Dave Small]

I wasn't much interested in the Roadini until I saw the presale announcement last week, with the pics and the description, and my interest grew.  I was really close to sending my payment---in fact, was merely debating which color to get---but since then my interest has waned because I don't know that I can get past the TIG welds.  I understand the reasoning behind them, and I acknowledge that it makes no difference to the ride quality, the longevity, or anything thing else that matters objectively, but still....  I vowed a few years ago that I wouldn't buy a bike that had a threadless headset (for rational reasons) or that was TIG-welded (for emotional reasons), and while the Roadini caused me to reconsider that---the model ticks ALL of my other boxes---I fear that the welds will always truncate my love.  

I wish the model was in the Sam/Joe/Cheviot class; made in Taiwan with lugs, so it's much less expensive than the Waterford-made models but more than the TIG-welded models.  I'd be the first in line for that one.  

Dave

[Patrick Moore]

Dave: why don't you like threadless headsets? Note: not disagreeing, just curious.

Me, I've long since dialed in my bar height, so I rather like the threadless system, though I have to admit that nice looking threadless stems are few and far between. But the Weigle randonneur that came 2nd in the recent BQ trials does threadless very nicely, I think. 

As to tigging, I rather prefer lugs or brass welding -- aka fillet brazing -- myself. Chauncey used "bilaminate" construction on some of the Matthews's joints, the rest fillet brazing -- rather neat, I think, though for me, the fit and ride and feel are far, far more important than the method of joining the tubes. Still and all, most tigging I've seen doesn't look as finished -- though there was one huge exception: a custom 650C ("see") racing bike by Kellog that a woman brought into a bike shop 20+ years ago. The beads were so prettily laid down and filed that I swore to myself that the frame was fillet brazed, even though tubes and joints were that grey titanium color. Just beautiful.

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[Singlespeed Johnny]

100%
there's just something about a tig welded riv i can't get past...

[Daniel D.]

If the roadini was ~$1300, I probably would've chosen something else.  Even at $875 I was almost tempted away by the BMC road or monstercross.  At $1300 I would've been considering gunnar, lynskey, Otso warakin etc.

Forgot to mention another reason I bought the roadini, that great headbadge!

[Joe Bernard]

I like threadless. The threaded headset on my Pashley Clubman keeps loosening, and I'm quite tired of dragging out two big wrenches - which I'm not going to take on the road - to tighten it. Phooey on that!

[Steve Palincsar]

Any chance you might need to add a washer in the stack? When I had that
problem, that's what fixed it.

[Joe Bernard]

I could try it. Part of the stack is a cable hanger..I think I have a thicker one I can try.

[Steve Palincsar]

As we used to say back home in the Bronx, "What could it hurt?"

[Dave Small]

Hi Patrick.  I've owned 4 bikes with threadless headsets and have had bad experiences with each one because of it.  For 2 of them---a Surly LHT and a Surly Cross Check, both bought new---I told the dealer I wanted the handlebars to be even with the top of a saddle set at 77cm.  He accomplished that by installing a 17 degree stem pointing skyward and then cutting the steerer with no room to go up.  Later when I wanted to raise my bars I couldn't, or at least not enough to matter.  I sold the LHT for that reason, and still use the CC for commuting but would like to replace it so I can get the bars higher.  I was considering a Roadini for that until I discovered that max tire width is 28mm with fenders, which isn't wide enough for me on Indianapolis streets.  The 3rd bike is a Waterford 1200 that would be perfect except I can't get the bar higher than an inch below the saddle, and I'm selling it for that reason.  And lastly, I had a rando bike custom-built about 6-7 years ago, by a builder out of state.  I specifically told him to talk to me BEFORE he cut the steering tube, but he ignored that instruction.  He later said he had cut it but left plenty of room to raise the bars, but when I got the bike there was no buffer, and he refused to even talk to me about making it right.  I eventually paid others to replace the steerer and repaint the fork.  To be fair to threadless headsets 3 of these 4 cases were faults of the dealer's or builder's stupidity or disobeyance, but the problems wouldn't have occurred with threaded stems and show the limitations of threadless.  So I now stick to threaded, and it's nonnegotiable.  

Having said that, on about half my bikes I use a threadless stem with a riser, so I have the adjustability of threaded but can swap stems without stripping the handlebar.  It's not as sleek-looking as a Nitto stem, but the tradeoff is well worth it if there's any chance at all that I'll want to change the stem extension.  

[Matt B.]

+1 for threaded/quill setups, its one thing I'm glad Riv stuck to (though they didn't on the tandem). It's nice to be able to adjust your bar height if the mood strikes. Your body changes too. I guess it's not very often you need to redial your bar height but when you do, the option is golden. With a quill stem you can make adjustments in the middle of a ride in about 5 seconds with an allen key from your saddlebag.

[Patrick Moore]

Dave; thanks, understood. I've twice had custom stems made to get bars high enough for comfort, which would certainly be a shame if originally the steerer was fully long enough to do the job itself.

Funny, Chauncey Matthews designed my road bike for dirt with a highly sloping tt and a very high head tube, so much so that I've resorted to a 6* (minus 6* in my case) stem to get the bar 1 cm lower than before -- there is no spacer under the stem. I may even go to a -10*, or a -17* with the one spacer on top of the stem replaced below it.

But even so, he left the steerer so long that the first thing I had to do was cut about 3" off of it; I've since cut another inch!

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[Geeter]

Patrick, I love that you had a bike designed with a long enough headtube and angles to actually slam it upright!  That is awesome!  That is exactly what I would love right now.

I am good example of the ebbs and flows one goes through with geometry based on health.  I always rode aggressively and had pretty good saddle to bar drop.  When my lumbar discs started acting up I started riding with more steerer and even buying high rise threadless stems.  I have a Gunnar Roadie with a barely cut fork for that reason.  My Jones has an uncut tube and actually looks normal because Jeff designed it as so.  He even sells new tubes for 30 bucks with his Truss so you can always just go back to the drawing board.  

After having surgery a few months back the only way I can ride comfortably on the Gunnar is by using the full steerer.  If it was cut low like many of you mentioned I would have either sold it or bought a new fork.  

The threaded option in my opinion these days is almost a must.  If I wanted to slam, I could.  If I want a high rise, I can.  No need to worry about steerer tube materials and stress in the conventional sense.  

[Patrick Moore]

Geeter: I hope your back at least stabilizes, even if you can't go back to the slammed stems of youth. (I once had my stem fully 6" below saddle, and this with stems with 140, later shortened to 135, mm extensions! No more.

I have to confess that I didn't ask Chauncey for the high head tube; I just pointed to my 2 Rivendells and said, "Those are the bikes whose handling and fit I judge all others by" -- or words to that effect. I could get my Matthews' bar as low as those on my Rivs -- ~3 cm below saddle -- if I wanted to, with a 17* drop, but it's very comfortable as is. I may switch to a -6/10 cm instead of the current -6/9 -- this after already moving from an 8.

I'm tempted to find a radically dropping track stem for it ....

Not sure I'd be better off with a quill system; I'd have had to buy a new one already as it is!

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[Geeter]

Thanks Patrick.  If you ever get a chance, please post a pic of the Matthews!

On Monday, August 7, 2017 at 12:52:33 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:

Geeter: I hope your back at least stabilizes, even if you can't go back to the slammed stems of youth. (I once had my stem fully 6" below saddle, and this with stems with 140, later shortened to 135, mm extensions! No more.

I have to confess that I didn't ask Chauncey for the high head tube; I just pointed to my 2 Rivendells and said, "Those are the bikes whose handling and fit I judge all others by" -- or words to that effect. I could get my Matthews' bar as low as those on my Rivs -- ~3 cm below saddle -- if I wanted to, with a 17* drop, but it's very comfortable as is. I may switch to a -6/10 cm instead of the current -6/9 -- this after already moving from an 8.

I'm tempted to find a radically dropping track stem for it ....

Not sure I'd be better off with a quill system; I'd have had to buy a new one already as it is!

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 10:42 AM, Geeter <gma...@gmail.com> wrote:

Patrick, I love that you had a bike designed with a long enough headtube and angles to actually slam it upright!  That is awesome!  That is exactly what I would love right now.

I am good example of the ebbs and flows one goes through with geometry based on health.  I always rode aggressively and had pretty good saddle to bar drop.  When my lumbar discs started acting up I started riding with more steerer and even buying high rise threadless stems.  I have a Gunnar Roadie with a barely cut fork for that reason.  My Jones has an uncut tube and actually looks normal because Jeff designed it as so.  He even sells new tubes for 30 bucks with his Truss so you can always just go back to the drawing board.  

After having surgery a few months back the only way I can ride comfortably on the Gunnar is by using the full steerer.  If it was cut low like many of you mentioned I would have either sold it or bought a new fork.  

The threaded option in my opinion these days is almost a must.  If I wanted to slam, I could.  If I want a high rise, I can.  No need to worry about steerer tube materials and stress in the conventional sense.  

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[Garth]

While the Roadini as is doesn't have the length I'd need and it's not meant for sweep back bars, that blue shade sure is purrrrrrrrdy ! All this gives me more ideas for a custom though ☺ A sweep back(and higher) bar pure road bike ! I imagine the exact frame dimensions of my Bomba except with lighter tubes(no 2tt either) and clearances for tires like the Roadini and a road double crank. No bolt-uprightness, more like 40-60 degrees give or take, which is how my Bomba is for me.

[Garth]

The Bombadini ☺ I just couldn't help it !

[Patrick Moore]

Here she/he/it be:

This is the latest, but it's not quite current: stem is -6* instead of 90*, and I traded the Large Sackville for 2 nice panniers.

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[Justin August]

My budget Roadini.

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