Tested 6 pairs of 700c (29in) tires - results and impressions

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Takashi

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Sep 3, 2015, 3:35:46 AM9/3/15
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I tested various 700c (29-inch) tires on a same route to see how they perform, and I thought I'd share the results here.

Please note that this is not a detailed study, as I rode only once with each pair.
Climate conditions as well as my body condition differed from one day to another, so that might have affected results.


THE TIRES:
The tires I tested are following 6 pairs:

Maxxis CrossMark 29x2.1 (52/52-622) 60TPI, single compound
Schwalbe Thunder Burt 29x2.10 (54-622) RaceGuard
Schwalbe Furious Fred 29x2.00 (50-622)
Bruce Gordon Rock-n-Road 700x43 (43-622)
Schwalbe Marathon Mondial 700x40 (42-622) Performance Line, wired
Compass Barlow Pass 700x38 (38-622) standard casing


THE ROUTE:
The route is 20.4 kilometers (12.7 miles) long, which consists of 4 portions:
Portion 1: paved; 7.6km (4.7mi); 271m (889ft) ascent; 91m (298ft) descent
Portion 2: dirt/gravel; 2.6km (1.6mi); 210m (689ft) ascent; no descent
Portion 3: dirt/gravel; 5.4km (3.4mi); no ascent; 406m (1332ft) descent
Portion 4: paved; 4.8km (3.0mi); 74m (243ft) ascent; 79m (259ft) descent


RESULTS:
Please see the attached chart for the results.


IMPRESSIONS:

Cross Mark (15psi front, 25psi rear)
It felt a bit sluggish when climbing.
Rear wheel sometimes slipped in portion 2.
Difficulty when descending in portion 3 as rear wheel sometimes skidded, but looking at GPS data, these were fastest, so maybe it wasn't bad.

Thunder Burt (20psi front, 30psi rear)
I recall that someone wrote about these tires as "smooth as butter," and I absolutely agree. Very smooth both on pavement and on gravel. Also they felt less sluggish than Cross Marks, thus easier to climb.
It was easier to handle on gravel than Cross Marks, though rear wheel slipped a bit in portion 2.
Also I felt them easier to handle in portion 3.
By the way, I always took brief rests (a few minutes) between portions. Looking at GPS data, I noticed that my rest was shorter when testing Thunder Burts and Furious Freds. I guess their smoothness or non-sluggishness made me less tired, thus requiring shorter break.
(It's possible that it was due to climate conditions, not tires.)
I put TBs on my Hunq when I went touring this August, and they served very well.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/77318553@N08/albums/72157655035690913

Furious Fred (22psi front, 30psi rear)
Least sluggish among tires I tested, and indeed very fast when climbing.
As I wrote above, I needed shorter break between portions.
I did not notice slipping in portion 2, easy to handle in portion 3.
So I liked them very much, but on another day when I rode unpaved road with these tires, I found a few cuts on the tread (not sidewall). Schwalbe website suggests that they are fragile, and indeed they are.
I am reluctant to use them for long-distance ride when the route includes unpaved roads.

Rock n Road (30psi front, 38psi rear)
They feel relatively smooth both on pavement and dirt, but extremely sluggish when climbing.
I had to resort to lower gears with these tires than with other tires.
Handling was fine in portions 2 and 3, but harder to handle than fatter tires.

Marathon Mondial (30psi front, 38psi rear)
Felt less sluggish than RnR.
Among tires I tested, these felt hardest to handle on gravel road.
So I was surprised when I checked GPS data to find that these performed pretty well in portions 2 and 3.
I have always thought that these are "slow" tires, so I have not used them often, but I will have to change my mind and use them more often to see how they perform.

Barlow Pass (38psi front, 42psi rear)
Before the test, I expected these to be fastest, especially when climbing paved road, but I was wrong.
Compared to Furious Freds, Barlow Pass felt slow, and I felt more tired.
(Maybe because it was a hot day when I tested these.)
In portions 2 and 3, I felt them difficult to handle. Felt easier than Marathons, but slower actually.
Extralight ones might be faster, but I guess that they are as fragile as Furious Freds.


Takashi

Edwin W

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Sep 3, 2015, 7:18:07 AM9/3/15
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That is a lot of work to do, changing all of those tires! Thanks. Keep doing it and the results will become more meaningful.

Very interesting, either way.

Edwin

Shoji Takahashi

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Sep 3, 2015, 9:34:50 AM9/3/15
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Thanks, Takashi! I'll add Thunder Burts to my list for the Hunqapillar. 

Deacon Patrick

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Sep 3, 2015, 9:57:41 AM9/3/15
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Amazing, Takashi!

As most here know, my go to tires are: Thunder Burt for my Hunqapillar; Barlow Pass for my Quickbeam. I think you are on to something when you mention that heat could have been a factor with your Barlow Pass ride. I don't track speed, time, distance, etc., but hot rides are sure a LOT longer feeling than the same ride on a cool day. Throw in subtle differences in wind and/or precipitation, and even how you are feeling that ride -- It would take a lot of riders and/or very controled testing in real world circumstances to attempt to quiet down the "noise" in the data. To me, your ride impression notes are the most meaningful data you collected. Of the tires I've ridden, I concur with your assessment. Thank you for sharing this fantastic pile of personal experience with the tires!

With abandon,
Patrick

Patrick Moore

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Sep 3, 2015, 10:17:10 AM9/3/15
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Thanks for this; very interesting to see that the first 3 on the list are close, and that the F Fred is fastest. I can see how th FFs would be chancey on graveled roads, but fortunately my roads are sandy. I do notice how they roll very nicely on pavement, even at ~18/22.

I'll be interested to learn of any further test data.

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John Hawrylak

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Sep 3, 2015, 9:50:20 PM9/3/15
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All I can say is Wow and Thank You.  An excellent job and excellent report.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

dstein

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Sep 4, 2015, 12:16:50 AM9/4/15
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Awesome right up and thanks for sharing. 

Aren't the Thunder Burts also racing tires meant for short term use like the furious freds? Are are those in fact more duarable?

Takashi

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Sep 4, 2015, 4:47:53 AM9/4/15
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There are 3 types of Thunder Burts (LiteSkin, SnakeSkin, RaceGuard), whereas there is only one type of Furious Fred.
http://www.schwalbe.com/en/offroad-reader/thunder-burt.html
http://www.schwalbe.com/en/offroad-reader/furious-fred.html

Just below photos there is a chart showing grip, durability, etc.
According to the website, TBs are a bit more durable than FFs.
I bought RaceGuard, expecting they are less fragile.

Takashi


2015年9月4日金曜日 13時16分50秒 UTC+9 dstein:

Patrick Moore

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Sep 4, 2015, 5:01:41 AM9/4/15
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FWIW, I've got about 1500 miles on my Furious Freds and the rear knoblets are about halfway worn down; the fronts are almost as new. Probably 50% pavement, 50% sandy dirt.

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Tony DeFilippo

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Sep 4, 2015, 7:45:01 AM9/4/15
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Takashi,

Awesome write up! That is allot of tire swapping and it is very interesting. The comments section in particular is really useful to me.

Tony

Surlyprof

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Sep 4, 2015, 12:12:16 PM9/4/15
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Nice experiment.  I'm surprised that the Mondial and Barlow Pass numbers were so close.  Like you, I always thought of my Mondials as a pretty slow, heavy tire.  The Barlow Pass Extralights felt light as the air inside them in comparison.  I would recommend the extralights.  I've ridden them for all my road riding this summer flat-free.  Unfortunately, my comparison is not nearly as accurate as yours as I use the Mondials on my heavier wheelset (32h Synergy with XT hub vs. 36h A719 with Phil Wood).  Now, if they would just make a Thunder Burt that fits a Hillborne, I could ditch the Mondials AND Smart Sams and ride one tire year 'round.  If anyone has a comparable tire in mind, I'm all ears.

Thanks for the write up.
John

dougP

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Sep 4, 2015, 8:19:15 PM9/4/15
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Thanks for taking the trouble to test, record & post your findings.  The impressions are especially helpful. Oftentimes I find the subjective feel of how a tire rides & handles to be an important factor in my perception of the performance of the tire.  Good stuff.

dougP


On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 12:35:46 AM UTC-7, Takashi wrote:

Jan Heine

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Sep 5, 2015, 2:15:36 AM9/5/15
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Takahashi,

That is an interesting comparison. Like you, I am surprised that our Barlow Pass tires weren't super-fast. At first, I thought about why this could be... until I realized that you did only one run with each tire. You mention that yours isn't a detailed study, and you are right. It would be erroneous to draw conclusions based on a single run, especially on a road course where so many variables can change.

It's very important to control all the variables when testing tires. For example, at Bicycle Quarterly, we test on a track, and only when there is no wind (measured with a windspeed meter, < 0.5 m/s; but looking at trees and checking that the leaves don't move is equally precise). We also measure temperature and correct for that based on a curve we've established by measuring the same tires at different temperatures. We do at least three repeats with each setup.

On an open-road course, you'll have many more variables that change. The way to deal with this is to do repeat runs until the variations average out. A statistical analysis helps you figure out whether you've reached that point. (Bicycle Quarterly's tests always include a statistical analysis to make sure we report actual differences between tires, rather than just "noise" in the data.)

So I encourage you to do more test runs with at least some of the tires, and then do a statistical analysis. If you need help with that, we can help. (BQ contributor Mark Vande Kamp has a Ph.D. with a minor in statistics.)

In the mean time, rather than looking at numbers, it may be more useful to report your impressions of riding each tire. How did they feel different on each section of your course? Which one was more fun to ride? In the end, that is what counts for most of us when we ride.

Again, thank you for doing the testing. Please continue the experiment until you get meaningful numbers. It's of great interest to all of us how these tires perform.

Jan Heine
Compass Bicycles

Takashi

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Sep 6, 2015, 7:31:05 AM9/6/15
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Thank you Jan.
I have enjoyed reading your articles in blog and BQ, and they inspired me to do the test.
As an amateur cyclist, my time to ride bike is limited, so I cannot say for sure how many times I will ride the same route.
I like to visit places I have never seen, rather than riding same route over and over.
(I'm pretty sure that most people in this group understand this inclination)
Still, I am interested in performances of tires myself, so when I do further test, I will post about it.

I have read in your blog (comment section maybe) that you consider Furious Fred and Thunder Burt as too much off-road-oriented, but I think they were very smooth and efficient on pavement.
So I am expecting to read reviews of those tires in future issues of BQ.

Takashi


2015年9月5日土曜日 15時15分36秒 UTC+9 Jan Heine:

Jan Heine

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Sep 6, 2015, 3:22:40 PM9/6/15
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Takashi,

First of all, I apologize for butchering your name...

Please do report on further testing you do, but I totally understand that testing is a tedious job. I can tell you when we did the rumble strip test, and I had to ride 15 miles on rumble strips over the course of a morning, I was glad to just go for a spin the following day on comparatively smooth roads.

We'll consider the Furious Fred and Thunder Burts when we next test tires on the track with a power meter under carefully controlled conditions. Thank you for the suggestion.

Best,

Jan Heine
Editor
Bicycle Quarterly

Edwin W

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Sep 6, 2015, 9:54:15 PM9/6/15
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Jan,

You have discovered a way to make all tires seem supple and fast rolling: ride 15 miles on rumble strips then go out on a "regular" ride.
For those that don't want to spring for new tires!

hangtownmatt

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Sep 7, 2015, 12:20:16 AM9/7/15
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Seems to me that if differences can only be detected under carefully controlled conditions using power meters none of these tires are worth all the fuss and expense.  I'll stick with my $20 Vittoria Randonneur's.


Matt

Matthew J

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Sep 7, 2015, 7:21:52 AM9/7/15
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When I put on my Compass tires for the first time I sure as heck noticed the difference.  Vittorias always seemed harsh and uninvolved. Compass smooth engaging.  Not sure how those impressions could be measured under controlled conditions with power impressions.

Daniel D.

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Sep 7, 2015, 4:26:23 PM9/7/15
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I think they're using the power meters and controlled conditions to ensure measurements are as objective and repeatable as possible.  Not that the differences are undetectable without such equipment.  
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