Handlebar Suggestions for MTB Build?

[kielsun]

I hesitated posting this here, but it's definitely a Riv-inspired conundrum. I'm building up a late 80s Rockhopper and having trouble finding the right handlebar setup. It will primarily be a trail and off-road camping bike with knobbies. I have my Sam for road riding and don't want much overlap between the two.

The frame is borderline too small for me. It's an 18" and I would probably benefit from a 19-19.5", but it should work fine once it's dialed, and it's also just a stop-gap until I can save up for a Surly Troll frameset or something similar.

Riv Content: I want it to be comfortable (but still nimble)--bars at saddle height!

I've considered going with a standard Technomic and Albas, dirt drop with straight-ish/mountain riser bars like the Soma Clarence, or even trying a threadless conversion stem with drop-style bars. I have cockpit parts for any setup: MTB levers and Deore thumb shifters and aero levers and Ultegra bar-ends.

I've already tried a dirt drop stem with moustache bars. This created too much reach because of the bar profile and the non-relaxed geometry of the bike. Anything that I should consider that I'm missing?

I welcome any and all advice based on previous builds or experience. I'm pretty new at working on bikes, so you won't offend me with newbie advice. Thanks for your help!

Bob

[Chris Lampe 2]

Have you considered standard MTB bars?  I've tried drops.  I've tried cruiser bars.  I've tried Albatross bars.  I always go back to a traditional MTB bar with about 10 degrees of pullback and 38mm of rise.  There's a reason most MTB's that get ridden off-road use that type of bar.  

A Jones might be an option if your bike were bigger but I doubt you could get it high enough on an already too-small bike.  

[Eric Daume]

How about a Surly Open bar? It has a decent amount of rise, and is usefully wider than a Clarence or Mary. 

Eric

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[Philip Kim]

Ahearne MAP bars are awesome.

Jones bars are probably favorite off-road bars, and slowly creeping on my favorite pavement bars.

[Deacon Patrick]

I am highly partial to Albastache bars, and on a "too small" bike, would give Moustache bars a go. I think I have a pair if you're interested in trying (but they are 26.0mm, so need road brakes/shifters). Their positioning for what you describe is perfect for my version of the same type of riding. On steep climbs or descents, I ride the front curves (where the brakes are) while shifting my core back on descents or forward on climbs. For flattish cruising, the more upright back grip is perfect and brakes aren't usually required then.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Hugh Smitham]

I'm using the Jones bars on my 1995 Salsa Ala Carte. I really like them. One issue I'll mention, getting the bars up high enough were a challenge. I had a judy xc rockshox and the steerer was cut. I asked the forum where I could get a 1" threadless rigid fork? It was Joe Bunik that directed me to Bikeman which made it possible to get the bars up high enough. FYI I tried other MTB bars before going with the jones bars and I just didn't like them as much as the Jones bars.

Here's a picture of the final.

Good luck on your project.

~Hugh

  Los Angeles, CA

[RJM]

For trail I would go with a flat bar, maybe stick those little bar ends on. I did a 6 hour MTB race and I rode a flat bar and the only thing I wish I added was those ergo bar end things where you can just grip on the end of the bar. I grip there now just using the end of the bar but those barends would help. I'm not talking about the old school ones that curve forward of the bar, just the ones that are a little nub looking thing. Ergo grips help too, but I use some wide raceface grips, which work great. My hands and arms never really hurt much on that ride....now the legs, that's a whole 'nudder story.

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 7:36:35 AM UTC-5, kielsun wrote:

[Robert Liebermann]

I'm very loving butterfly bars on my 84 trek 830.

http://hujev.net/image/med/700_4151.jpg 

(One drawback - no easy mirror location: and I don't like that sShhsHaaAAkkKky kraut mirror!)

Great for town, road, trail, etc. Big! Lots of hand positions (sides for torquing/climbing, front for coasting, back for 'just going along', etc.
More pix and justifications here: http://rjl.us/velo/trek830-1.htm

I still like randonneur bars on my touring bike (for now), but these trekker/butterfly bars are the greatest.

Various variants from variable makers (Nitto, Humpbert, Modolo, Kalloy, etc. etc.) with small differences in shape, angle, etc.

[kielsun]

Folks, thanks for taking the time to respond. I appreciate all of your ideas and wish I had the cash to try them all!

The Jones Loop is such a great-looking and seemingly versatile bar, so I'm considering a threadless stem adapter, like the VO one, and going that route, especially since I know I'd probably love them on my future Troll or similar mtb. Hugh--I don't think I'd go so far as to get another fork for this bike since it's just a stop-gap, but we'll see.

The Surly Open Bar also looks very promising and comfortable, and I wouldn't have any trouble getting it high enough.

Patrick--I tried some moustache bars with a dirt drop stem and I didn't like them for the same reason I took them off my Sam: I don't like the positioning of the brakes. I feel too splayed out. It's weird, though, because I figured they'd be more comfortable on a smaller bike. I guess they're just not for me.

RJM and Chris--I have a flat bar lying around and might be able to scrounge up a standard mtb bar. I'll give them a shot.

Robert--That trekking bar is really cool. I don't think I'd like to have to reach for the brakes/shifters past the end of the stem, though. I think I want some sweep.

Thanks again, all.

Bob

[Hugh Smitham]

Hi Bob,

That's funny. The Ala Carte is my stop gap. I've got a 27.5 x 3" custom in the works. I sold my Atlantis so the Salsa is my adventure bike till I have my grubby hands on the baby fat. For about $80 shipped I figured it was a small price for all day comfort. We all have our logic. I have a buyer for the bike when I'm done with it so no biggy. With these older MTB's it's really hard to get those bars up. I considered the threadless adapter (Doug if you read this I really mean no offense) but I thought it looked goofy. But to be fair the uncut steerer on mine looks goofy too. The upside is the all the bikepacking bags hide the ungainly steerer height. Lastly, the bike rides awesome now so it's a win!

Look forward to what you decide.

Cheers,

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipeedemusings.com/

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[Robert Liebermann]

Remember, you can also use those bars the other way, with the open end forward - the stem mount is about in the center, so no matter which way you turn them there's about the same for and aft.

[Joe Bernard]

Yes, technically Robert has those bars backwards. The standard position has the straight part of the bar with levers closest to you - mimicking an mtb bar - then the curved sections are forward of the stem for stretching out on longer rides.

[Ron Mc]

Late to the party, but this article is still the best info in once place  http://oldglorymtb.com/round-up-alternative-or-alt-mountain-bike-handlebars/  

Big Map bar fan here.  There are 3 bars that were derived from the Jones H bar, Jitensha Touring (Nitto 2522), Ahearne Map bar, and On-One Mary bars, listed from narrowest to widest.  The nice thing about using these bars is you can use them with a dirt drop or technomic stem to easily adjust height.  

[velomann]

Another vote for the On-One Mary bars.

Mike

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 5:36:35 AM UTC-7, kielsun wrote:

[kielsun]

Thanks Veloman and Ron.

Ron, I dug around and found an old post of yours about the Map bar. Definitely intriguing. I measured the top tube of my Rockhopper and it's roughly three cm longer than that of my Sam.

So here are the final few options I'm considering.

1. Albatross w/ 120 mm Technomic stem.
2. Map w/ a dirt drop or short reach (60-80) Technomic.
3. Surly Open Bar w/ either a dirt drop or short reach Technomic.

I love the Albas w/ 100 mm Technomic on my Sam, but the bar ends hit my knees on tight turns if I'm not careful. I also use the VO seat post with long setback with that setup to get a bit more stretched out. Realistically, the 120 mm stem would've solved that issue, but I had already glued the Meisha's grips. Rookie move! Might feel the need to change that someday...

Going with the Albas and some Deore thumb shifters makes sense because it's a known quantity. I'm less apt to try something new since my budget is tight (read: non-existent!).

Bottom line: I just need to choose because I'd probably love any of these setups and I just want to get this bike on the trail! :)

Bob

[Deacon Patrick]

Bob, sounds like you are narrowing things down a bit. Ultimately, it's all an experiment, even if the trial lasts for several years with tweaks along the way. Grin. I have no experience with 2 and 3, but I rode the Albatross bars on my Hunqapillar for two years before swapping to Albastache. For singletrack here on Pikes Peak, I have far less control in climbing and technical descending with my wings spread so wide (I presume what you mean when you describe the brake position of the moustache bars as "splayed out"?). The Albatross bars have a fairly decent climbing position for short climbs in the "sort-of-curves", but for me the wrists got uncomfortable fast there. Steering on climbs was twitchy because of width. On descents, I wanted my hands in the curves, but no brakes. I tried the moustache bars and found them uncomfortable, but the Albastache bars, for me, are the best of both worlds. Brakes where I want to be on descents, control for climbs. I'd suggest you not necessarily rule out the Albastache bar (depending on what "splayed out" means, because the Albatross bars are much more splayed out, at least as I would describe them).

Ultimately, the handlebar dilemma is muddy until you find the right one, then things suddenly clear up. Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[kielsun]

Getting there, Patrick. By "splayed out" I meant that my body felt too elongated with the moustache bars on my Sam. Some of this splay could've been avoided with a dirt drop stem, though. I'm definitely curious about the Albastache if they're truly quite different from moustache bars. Earlier in this thread you said you have a moustache I could try--did you mean Albastache? If so, I'd be keen to give them a go. Thanks.

Bob

[Hugh Smitham]

Bob,

I tried both the Moustache & Albastache and liked neither. I felt stretched out and the brake lever position wasn't ideal for me. That said you may experience them differently. With bikes and most especially with cockpits there's no substitute for experience. And we change. When I was young I'd imagine there were lot's of bars I'd have liked but today just not feasible.

Warm Regards,

~Hugh

[Curtis McKenzie]

Hugh,

With The upmost respect. You are young. 

Humbly,

Curtis

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[Ron Mc]

With any bars, set up is everything, but if you don't take 2" horizontal extension from your normal road bar stem, you're not even in the right ballpark for moustache bars.  

Here's a recent thread with all the common experiences.  

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/internet-bob/SxKtL7CXJAs

I've spent 5 years on moustache bars and adore them.  I've spent almost the entire past year and over 4000 mi on Map bars and adore them, too.  

I would recommend the Map bars for control.  They're much closer to straight bars than Albas, in fact, your hands will be rotated about 70 degrees differently.  

[Deacon Patrick]

Gotcha. yes, as Ron mentioned, Mustache require 2" (5cm) shorter than a regular road bar, so I'd argue you haven't tried them.  Yes, I have Mustache (all my Albastache bars are happily in use), and yes, the Albastache is its own beastie and well worth trying.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Robert Keal]

I wouldn't argue. I'm halfway tempted to throw the Moustache bar back on my Sam with a DD stem--it actually came from Riv with a 100 mm Technomic + Moustache combo--but I'm happy with the Albas for now, so I won't be going to the trouble.

Still not settled on a handlebar purchase for my mtb. Silly spending so much time reading and thinking about this, but then again, maybe not. I'll pull the trigger on something tomorrow. :)

Bob

[Ron Mc]

Of course people are built differently, I'm 6'3 and all limbs, and a tall, shorter-reach bike is what fits me.  But I and use a 100mm stem with drop bars on my 59cmTT road bike (63cm ST), and that with short-reach compact drops.  But I took that measurement from my properly set-up moustache cockpit (70mm Technomic), duplicating hood position on both bikes.  

I also measured the end position on my moustache cockpit to pick the stem for my Map bars.  

I took the photo from Joe's website and did a little photoshop to give me a reach measurement.  

On Friday, June 17, 2016 at 10:24:51 PM UTC-5, kielsun wrote:

I wouldn't argue. I'm halfway tempted to throw the Moustache bar back on my Sam with a DD stem--it actually came from Riv with a 100 mm Technomic + Moustache combo...

Bob

[BenG]

JUST finished a ride on my big MB-1, using 10cm dirt drop stem with original straight Nitto bar. Many days of rugged trails like this. Wrists still want a little bar retreat, and neck wants no additional reach. I think the Riv Bullmoose bar would be perfect if retreat offsets the extra reach. In your case, where frame is a little small, it could be ideal, if Rockhopper takes a 1" quill stem.

[kielsun]

Ron, thanks again. I dug that picture up in an old thread when ready about the MAP bar. Ben, I thought about going bullmoose, but I don't think the stem would get the bars up high enough to match the height of my saddle. It's a bummer because I really like how they look.

I rode into my favorite LBS this morning to look at some handlebars in person. They had the VO Postino, Soma Oxford, and Jones Bend bars in stock, in addition to a bunch of generic riser-style bars. The Jones Bend was very, very tempting, but I didn't want to take the extra steps to convert to a threadless 31.8 clamp.

And so, I bit the bullet and ordered a Surly Open Bar with 40 mm rise. I like the idea of the almost Jones-like 666 mm width, and the curve and sweep is also pretty similar to the Jones Bend. I also like that it's cromoly and won't (likely) snap. I'll pair it with a dirt drop stem to start and if that doesn't feel right I'll give a Technomic a go. Let the experimentation begin.

Thanks again for all the great suggestions and ideas!

Bob

[Mike in WA]

You could easily get the Jones H-Bar high enough with a Soma High Rider stem. The Jones H-Bar is absolutely fantastic, I can't imagine ever using another bar, especially for MTB purposes; super stable and comfortable with so many good positions. 

[Mike in WA]

Oops, wrong link, here's the correct product: SOMA High Rider stem adapter

[kielsun]

Thanks for the link, Mike! I'm glad you swooped in after my purchase because I can't afford the Jones H-Bar anyway! That definitely seems like the best long-term option, though. I'll start pinching pennies.

[Richard Rios]

Check out simworks and the getaround bar. I picked one up and love it. Straight bars tend to hurt my wrists but for me this bar has about the perfect amount of sweep. It's well priced at 40ish bucks and made by Nitto win! They have been out of stock for a bit but last time I checked with simworks they were working on restocking...

[Richard Rios]

Sorry also ment to mention Sycip JJJ bars. They look promising but I have no personal experience with them also a bit pricey. Gotta +1 the jones loop h bar. Really are my favorites which includes goes with most the usual Riv suspects, bosco, alba, noodle, moustache. I found the hand positions to all be pretty comfortable and useable.

[Clayton]

I have the Sycip singles bar and love it. It absorbs more vibration than the Jones bar, has about the same sweep, is 26" wide and allows lots of hand room. I use long Grab-on foam grips for extra hand positions. At only $45.00, it's a good buy. 

Clayton (Bend) 

[Robert Liebermann]

Maybe it's the AM Coffee talking here, but I've been looking for a place to suggest, or at least draw attention to Heinz Stucke's double-level handlebar setup... may as well throw it in here... I forgot/never knew what he used/made for them, but ...

You can see a couple pic here and here if somehow unacquainted with the god of velotouring and his handlebars:
http://www.cyclingnorthwales.co.uk/pages/heinz_st.htm
http://en.turizmglobal.com/meet-the-man-cycling-the-world-about-50-years-heinz-stucke/

robert liebermann
fox alaska

[Hugh Smitham]

I love it. And I love how he decided to live outside the normal conventions of society. And whynot a dbl stacked handle bar? I get so caught up on new things and clever design (nothing wrong with that) but this guy just figured out a design that worked for him. He didn't surf the internet for that perfect bar, I admire that. Now back to browsing for a new great handlebar.

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipeedemusings.com/

--

[kielsun]

I thought I'd follow up on this thread since you all gave me such great tips during the search phase. I ended up settling on the Surly Open Bar for my build, mostly because I was intrigued by the width and thought it would be of benefit on trails. 

I took a three-day bikepacking trip in the George Washington National Forest just outside of Harrisonburg, VA in July, and the bars more than lived up to my expectations. Day one was about 30 miles on tarmac, and I can't say I loved them for this application. The lack of multiple hand positions really left me wanting. When we got to the forest roads and trails, though, I found them to be super comfortable and the width definitely helped me feel like I could throw the bike around a little bit, even though my front (zip-tied) Wald medium basket was nice and full. 

I'm still definitely interested in going with the Jones Bar on my next mtb--hopefully a complete new Surly Troll once I can pinch enough pennies--but the Open Bar definitely fits the bill for what I need out of a bar for now.

Thanks again for all the suggestions and ideas!

Bob in Baltimore

[Philip Kim]

Nice, I love GW park. I've never been biking out there though.