Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[lum gim fong]

 https://www.niagaracycle.com/categories/panaracer-gravelking-slick-650x42mm-brown-sidewall

  

Panaracer rebranded?

Not an accusation, just curious, because if it is the same tire I'd like to save the 40$ per pair by buying these.

Anyone know?

[Jeremy Tavan]

I just installed a pair of the 650Bx38 of the slick GravelKing. The casing is definitely heavier than the Compass tires - it's definitely not the same thing rebranded, though Panaracer does manufacture both tires. It's a comfortable enough tire, and hopefully reasonably durable, but it's not equivalent to the Compass.

[lum gim fong]

Oops...answering my own thread.

GK are puncture treaded, so not the same as Babyshoes.

Man......why do nice tires have to be so expensive?!?!?! 

[Steve Palincsar]

Panaracer makes lots of different tires.  One thing I absolutely do not
believe is that Compass is re-branding existing Panaracer tires.  Let me
suggest you buy one of each and compare them.

--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

[Jay Connolly]

I've also been in search of times that would match the Compass tires without the same high cost. I was working on the assumption that a bigger company with wider distribution channels could offer the same thing for less. Doesn't appear to be the case. The closest alternative is the Soma Supple Vitesse, which is close. The slight price differential matches the ride differential. The Soma is also a VERY good tire.

Jay

[panog]

The Soma Vitesse are awfully close to my estimation and at $35 a pop look pretty good

[Lee Legrand]

I've also been in search of times that would match the Compass tires without the same high cost. I was working on the assumption that a bigger company with wider distribution channels could offer the same thing for less. Doesn't appear to be the case. The closest alternative is the Soma Supple Vitesse, which is close. The slight price differential matches the ride differential. The Soma is also a VERY good tire.

I think you have to run a test and math.  Compass tires, if I remember correctly, are made almost by hand which is why the cost is the way it is.  You get a tire that may feel the same in terms of ride as the high cost tires but you also factor in wear between the two.  Hard to consider since you have to get test for it but I understand why you would feel that way.

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 8:00 PM, panog <panogia...@gmail.com> wrote:

The Soma Vitesse are awfully close to my estimation and at $35 a pop look pretty good

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[Reed Kennedy]

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Lee Legrand <krm...@gmail.com> wrote:

Compass tires, if I remember correctly, are made almost by hand which is why the cost is the way it is. 

I suspect you're on to something there. I've always thought it was sorta funny that so many people assume Compass marks up their tires a ton and makes a killing on them. 

I mean, maybe they do? I have no inside information. But I've always gotten the impression that Jan is at least as interested in getting more people on bikes (and tires) that they like as he is in making a quick buck. 

Best,

Reed

[Bill Lindsay]

I don’t ask for much. I just want somebody to ignore all costs to develop and manufacture the best tires in the world and I want them to sell them to me for really really cheap. What’s so hard about that?!

[Lee Legrand]

I don’t ask for much.  I just want somebody to ignore all costs to develop and manufacture the best tires in the world and I want them to sell them to me for really really cheap.  What’s so hard about that?!

Huh?

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:01 PM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don’t ask for much.  I just want somebody to ignore all costs to develop and manufacture the best tires in the world and I want them to sell them to me for really really cheap.  What’s so hard about that?!

[lum gim fong]

I did not mean that compass was re-branding tires. That's not what I was talking about. I know the history of those compass tires. Pana racer made them for compass. So I thought maybe panaracer had rights since they have the mold and equipment to make them and was making their own and that they were changing the name and selling them under another name.

[Steve Palincsar]

I'm pretty sure Compass owns the mold.

On 10/04/2017 09:41 PM, lum gim fong wrote:
> I did not mean that compass was re-branding tires. That's not what I was talking about. I know the history of those compass tires. Pana racer made them for compass. So I thought maybe panaracer had rights since they have the mold and equipment to make them and was making their own and that they were changing the name and selling them under another name.
>

[Mark in Beacon]

Not exactly almost. But here you go:

For the Compass Extralight models, Panaracer uses a casing usually reserved for their top-end racing tubulars. Panaracer doesn’t use this casing on their own clinchers. The company feels that their tires may end up with inexperienced customers, who may need sturdier tires.

I would guess the Panaracer Gravel tires are probably pretty close to the Compass standard casing tires. And priced within $10 of those, give or take.

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2017/03/08/panaracer-hand-made-tires/

[lum gim fong]

Turns out they're not the same as the gravel kings.

I love the compass tires but now they're up to 64 bucks. It was good to have the price break that compass gave over the last couple years when the yen went down. That was nice of them.

I think they were 57$ when I bought my last ones. So not a big bump up in price recently but as it approaches 70$ its harder to get my head around paying that much for a bike tire. but that is my problem I guess.

[lum gim fong]

I thought maybe they had an agreement that panaracer could make their own version even though compass designed it. Because the gravel king looked identical to me. But turns out they are not the same tire anyway so it's a moot question.

[Bill Lindsay]

Lee Legrand very concisely asked: "Huh?" in response to my sarcastic request for the best tires in the world to be cheap.  It was a sarcastic comment.  Many many people have learned that better tires are better.  Many people believe that Compass tires are the best in the world for their given size.  Many of those people also complain that Compass tires are expensive.  Some ask participants of the Rivendell Bicycle Works Owners Bunch Google Group to explain and justify the pricing of Compass Bicycles Ltd.  I think that state of affairs is amusing on many levels and my sarcastic post was an attempt to add more amusement to the comedy.

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 6:16:47 PM UTC-7, Lee Legrand wrote:

I don’t ask for much.  I just want somebody to ignore all costs to develop and manufacture the best tires in the world and I want them to sell them to me for really really cheap.  What’s so hard about that?!

Huh?

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:01 PM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don’t ask for much.  I just want somebody to ignore all costs to develop and manufacture the best tires in the world and I want them to sell them to me for really really cheap.  What’s so hard about that?!

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[Eric Norris]

My riding took a leap forward a few years ago when I finally broke down and started buying expensive tires. They do make a difference, and they are worth the money.

I currently ride Grand Bois and Compass tires almost exclusively. The major exception is a 650B-equipped Rivendell that currently has Gravel Kings, which are are the last “cheap” tires I still use.

--Eric N
campyo...@me.com
www.CampyOnly.com
Campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
@Campyonlyguy

[dougP]

There's that old saying about fast, good, & cheap.  You only get to pick 2 of 3.

dougP

[Jim A]

Speaking of rebranding:

I have handled slick 650b Gravel King tires that have "PACENTI" molded into the sidewall, so maybe Panaracer is reusing the mold of a Pacenti-commisioned tire? It could be a different compound/material though.

[Garth]

The "best tire in the world" are the ones on your bike right now. If anyone doubts this, try riding without any tires ! If you need new tires, the best ones are the ones you get, regardless of how or why.

Questioning and comparing yourself to others is futile, like being a pinball in the machine and wondering why you have no sense of direction. No one is a pinball.

[Philip Kim]

i've used compass babyshoes, switchback hills, and rat trap passes, all in standard and EL casing.

now that i only have one bike which consolidates my miles, i prefer hetres as the best value.

surprisingly enough, i have the parimoto with gravelking casing on my girlfriends BDB Pelican, and i think they are "close enough". ymmv

[Lee Legrand]

Lee Legrand very concisely asked: "Huh?" in response to my sarcastic request for the best tires in the world to be cheap.  It was a sarcastic comment.  Many many people have learned that better tires are better.  Many people believe that Compass tires are the best in the world for their given size.  Many of those people also complain that Compass tires are expensive.  Some ask participants of the Rivendell Bicycle Works Owners Bunch Google Group to explain and justify the pricing of Compass Bicycles Ltd.  I think that state of affairs is amusing on many levels and my sarcastic post was an attempt to add more amusement to the comedy.

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

Thanks for clarifying.  Now I know you did not smoke bad bag of bud yesterday.

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[Mark in Beacon]

On Thursday, October 5, 2017 at 8:45:19 AM UTC-4, Garth wrote:Questioning and comparing yourself to others is futile, like being a pinball in the machine and wondering why you have no sense of direction. No one  is a pinball.

.

[Tim]

Can we incorporate a "like" tab on these posts? Bill Lindsay and Mark in Beacon made me laugh today. IME, you just can't beat Compass. It does lead to a dilemma when you have several bikes though, because, yes, they're pricey. But a few years ago I tried the GB ELs and didn't find them to change my riding experience in any noticeable manner, compared to the Riv Jack Browns I had been running. But when I put even the standard casing Compass on the Hilsen for the first time, I was stunned at how great they were.

[lum gim fong]

I cannot definitively say that any tires I've ridden made me go faster. This is according to the bike computer on familiar routes. But I will say the GB and Compass tires corner better than anything I've ridden, stick good, very stable descents, and ride and handle real nice. My favorite tires. Good flats track record. I also like how they seem to carry their momentum when you start up a hill compared to other tires I've ridden. That means I don't have to downshift until I get further up the hill for a more exhilarating ride experience. But again seems like the clock shows I'm not any faster on any given tire.

Anyway I don't use a bike computer anymore. I just use my internal "fun-o-meter" and I also enjoy just tracking how many miles I ride each week with my GPS on my iPhone. Fun-o-meter works way better than a computer!

[Chris Birkenmaier]

+1 Eric.  I just pay the price and enjoy the ride.  I am utterly spoiled by Compass tires.

[Orc]

Resist Nomad 700x28c, Hutchinson Confrerie des 650b.   The Pari-Moto is a little too expensive to go into the cheap category, and the Nomad 35 is good, but it's just a tire.

-david parsons

[Garth]

The phrase about good cheap or fast only pertains to they in themselves who are good fast and cheap !  For the rest of us ..... the tires we have are always "juuuust ridden" !!

[John Hawrylak]

I agree, Many years ago, Grant stated in a write up, RBW had to purchase  a new Jack Brown mold as the original was wearing.  

[Belopsky]

Not sure if it was addressed, but how are Compass tires made by hand?

[Belopsky]

Sorry, was going to add to this:

Yes, Jan had a post about his visit to Panaracer about their tires. If the Compass ones are made by hand, so are the other Panaracer tires.

As far as value, the Grand Bois line of tires (also made by Panaracer) are very nice and can be had for relatively cheap straight from GB. The Hetre are heavier and don't roll as fast, but they're very nice as well. $38.xx USD prior to shipping

[Steve Palincsar]

On 10/06/2017 07:16 AM, Belopsky wrote:
> Sorry, was going to add to this:
>
> Yes, Jan had a post about his visit to Panaracer about their tires. If
> the Compass ones are made by hand, so are the other Panaracer tires.
>
> As far as value, the Grand Bois line of tires (also made by Panaracer)
> are very nice and can be had for relatively cheap straight from GB.
> The Hetre are heavier and don't roll as fast, but they're very nice as
> well. $38.xx USD prior to shipping
>

Any idea what the shipping on a tire would be?

[Steve Palincsar]

I asked Jan off-list about molds, and he confirmed that Compass does in
fact own the molds for their tires.  He went on to add that Pacenti sold
their molds to Panaracer when they stopped selling tires, which accounts
for the name molded into the sidewall of a Panaracer-branded tire.

[Mark in Beacon]

I posted a link to Jan's article in one of my replies above. The "hand made" is qualified:

A highlight of my visits to Japan is going to the Panaracer factory. It’s a magical place, where some of the world’s best tires are made largely by hand.

I would have to say that is an exaggeration, depending on your definition of "largely." But Jan does have a tendency toward hyperbole, so there's that. Not really a big deal.

The tires are assembled by hand. It’s a fascinating process, and I could easily spend a month photographing the factory. There is enough material write a book! But there are too many trade secrets, so no photography is allowed. Panaracer’s engineers would prefer if nobody knew what is going on in their factory.

Judging from the limited photos (and today's manufacturing and volumes) the hand part, whatever it might be, is just one step in the process. And unlike some high-end tubulars, the joining of the rubber tread to the casing is not done by hand, but with the vulcanization process. Which is presented here as "the best of both worlds" and  not available to the boutique makers because the equipment is too expensive. Although this is probably the part that the folks who make "hand-made" tires tout as the hand made part. A little confusing but bottom line, the tires are great, cool to see at least some of the process of manufacture, and Compass, like Rivendell, is a company I support because it is imbued with the soul and personality of the folks behind it.

On Friday, October 6, 2017 at 7:12:32 AM UTC-4, Belopsky wrote:

[Scott G.]

For good tires go here.

http://www.fmbtires.com/fmb_paris_roubaix_pro.htm

Only $160 for 32mm FMB PR Pros, as used by Tom Boonen.
I'd ride them, but I'd cry if I flatted them.

Anyone try Fairweather tires, yet another Panaracer/Compass variant ?
https://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/tires-tubes-rim-tape/fairweather-traveler-tire-700x32.html
The red ones would be great for old Brit bikes.

Happy Compass/GB tire user since 2006

[Jeremy Tavan]

I have the Fairweather 700x32 in red on my sparkly burgundy English lightweight. They look right, and ride very comfortably. I haven't compared them directly with Compass in that size, but my feeling of the casings is that they're relatively light and supple, but not Compass light. I'm quite pleased with them. Have had one flat in 850 miles of commuting, when I ran over a large construction staple, which went all the way through and lodged in the tube.

/Jeremy 

[Belopsky]

Here is an old order of mine for 2 tires and some bits:

Item Name: GrandBois tire Cypres700 700x30C 700×30C (30-622)/スタンダード | Standard
Item Price: 4,320 JPY
Qty: 2
Item Total: 8,640 JPY

Item Name: GrandBois Brake Springs for GrandBois Chouette/Normal
Item Total: 1,080 JPY

Item Name: GrandBois Brake Shoe Adjuster
Item Total: 5,400 JPY
----

Subtotal: 15,120 JPY
Shipping: 2,500 JPY
Processing Fee: 0 JPY
Tax: -1,120 JPY
Total: 16,500 JPY

[Mark in Beacon]

Thanks for sharing!

[Garth]

It's easy to get a shipping estimate from a website like Grand Bois. Add items to the cart, then checkout as guest, fill out the form with a dummy name and address, just use a valid zipcode of some sort. Then you will have an exact quote. For the heck of it I added 2 Hetre and I don't recall the exact numbers but it ended up being like low to mid 50's per tire to the midwest US. 4 tires was not much better. I find it odd that very few sell the GB tires in the US anymore, all went to Compass. I also find it funny how so many are sold tight around the same price of 57-59$ , not unlike the "magical" 19.99 ads on the tele ! Monkey see, monkey copy !

[Belopsky]

Better than any of the alternatives if one wants Hetre

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xgrand+bois+hetre.TRS1&_nkw=grand+bois+hetre&_sacat=0

[lum gim fong]

Is that with I's Bikes?