Click, click, click ... aaargh

[Jay in Tel Aviv]

Requesting the help of you wise list members to stop the clicking from the rear wheel of my Sam Hillborne.

The wheel is an Eno hub expertly laced to an A23 rim by Anthony of Longleaf. Still round and true after 2 years of commuting 60-100 miles/week.

The clicking happens once I hit a certain speed but regardless of whether I am sitting or standing (rule out the saddle and seatpost), pedaling or coasting (rule out chain, crank, freewheel).

Sheldon says it must be coming from loose spokes. But the each pair of same side spokes emit the same tone when plucked, and the wheel is otherwise perfect.

I brought it to my LBS who also says the spokes are not to blame, and wants me to replace the hub bearings.

Is this a reasonable guess? The hubs spin beautifully but the clicking is driving me nuts.

What say you wise ones?

Jay in TLV, where it is not at all simple to procure the common in the US sealed bearings specified by WI, so I would like to be fairly sure before ripping my hubs apart

[Lungimsam]

 http://www.jimlangley.net/wrench/keepitquiet.html

[Lungimsam]

Try some lube between the spokes where they cross each other? Sometimes they touch and click, I have read.

Valve stem nut loose?

New tires? Mold whisker hitting brake calipers? 

[Bill Lindsay]

1.  With the rear wheel off the bike spin the hub axle in your fingers and feel the hub bearings for yourself.  If they feel perfect, they are.  If they feel imperfect, they might still be fine.  

2.  Make triple sure its not something with the tire hitting the brake or the chainstay.  I had the little plastic covering sticker of my tire label peel itself off and make a thwack thwack sound.  I've had a thorn or other thing in the tread make a sound as it goes around

3.  (and my guess)  It could be something in the rim.  A batch of Mavic Open Pros back in the day had a little plug thing that helped them join the rim, and that thing would rattle around.  Fast enough and it was pressed on the outside.  Some people reported it would only work loose at certain tire pressures.  I know a lot of folks demanded warranty rims, because it was driving them crazy.  I've still got one set that does it.  Since I know what it is, I don't mind it.  Just like the rattle sound from the Winnie the Pooh Manny hung on my basket.  I know what it is, so it doesn't scare me or drive me nuts.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Jim M.]

I agree with Bill. Also, it would surprise me very much if you wore out WI bearings in that amount of mileage. WI builds pretty stout stuff. Are you sure it's the rear? Do you hear it when it's in a workstand and you spin the wheel?

jim m

wc ca

[Ed Felker]

We use White hubs on our tandems. That rear clicking you describe is familiar. It's the sound of a White hub needing service. The bearings are relatively inexpensive.

[René Sterental]

Hi Jay,

I've had that happen twice to me on different wheels. The first time it was the one eyelet ( I think) come loose inside the rim. I think it was an Open Pro rim. The second time, it was a tiny crack in the rim on a spoke hole. It was a Dyad rim with 36 spokes. 

Remove the wheel and rotate it. Verify the bearings as instructed. If not the bearings, remove the tire and rotate and inspect the rim very carefully. 

René 

On Thursday, August 25, 2016, Ed Felker <eddi...@gmail.com> wrote:

We use White hubs on our tandems. That rear clicking you describe is familiar. It's the sound of a White hub needing service. The bearings are relatively inexpensive.

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[Jay in Tel Aviv]

Thanks guys. I'll put my cassette wheel back on the bike and take a closer look ant the Eno wheel off the bike.
Just for fun, the clicking happens everywhere except on the stand. That's Sheldon's differential for loose spokes. Except that they're not. Maybe I'll try oiling the crossing points before removing the wheel.

Jay

On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 7:10:07 AM UTC+3, René wrote:

Hi Jay,

I've had that happen twice to me on different wheels. The first time it was the one eyelet ( I think) come loose inside the rim. I think it was an Open Pro rim. The second time, it was a tiny crack in the rim on a spoke hole. It was a Dyad rim with 36 spokes. 

Remove the wheel and rotate it. Verify the bearings as instructed. If not the bearings, remove the tire and rotate and inspect the rim very carefully. 

René 

On Thursday, August 25, 2016, Ed Felker <eddi...@gmail.com> wrote:

We use White hubs on our tandems. That rear clicking you describe is familiar. It's the sound of a White hub needing service. The bearings are relatively inexpensive.

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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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[Hunter Ellis]

Does it click when the wheel is off the frame/in a stand? 

Have you ruled out something silly like a cable/shoelace/zip tie hitting a spoke/part of the wheel?

Does the click "ring out," like plucking a string, or is it more dead-sounding? Can you describe the click in more detail?

Does it click going forward and backward?

I don't have the answers, but maybe these questions can help narrow it down. Also, have you gotten in touch with White Industries? They are good people and might be helpful.

On Thursday, August 25, 2016 at 2:55:38 PM UTC-7, Jay in Tel Aviv wrote:

[Jay in Tel Aviv]

Good questions.
It does it everywhere except the stand. Sounds sort of like a card in the spokes, but intermittent and slower.

[Garth]

I have heard that sound before on my Phil Wood freewheel hubs.  It was not the bearings or anything to do with the hub, it turned out the Sachs (7sp) freewheel needed some lube :) 

If it's a White of course it has a cartridge bearing , here is their service manual : http://0104.nccdn.net/1_5/300/188/182/Freewheel_Disassembly.pdf

So it may be the pawls are dry and in need of a dry lube/light lube only and the bearings are fine, but inspection will reveal their condition.

[Jay in Tel Aviv]

Thanks Garth, but I would think it can't be the freewheel b/c it happens coasting and pedaling.
I oiled my spoke crossings earlier and we'll see what happens.

[Mark in Beacon]

My go-to with this type of noise is tightening chainring bolts, but you've already eliminated this as it happens while coasting. I've never experienced clicking as a symptom of worn bearings, but I've never owned a zoot hub. If this is your mechanic's advice, and another list member has the same hub and experienced the same symptom, sounds like that might be the culprit (no pun intended). Hope you figure it out soon. As Bill says, not knowing what is responsible is the biggest annoyance for me, too! (Or you could just put cards in your spokes...)

[Ryan Fleming]

Do you run fenders? Mudguards? On my X0-1 I have kinda loose rear fender and my mudguard/mudflap...is well ...floppy and it rubs against the rear tire. Another source of maddening noise for me was MKS pedals...repacking fixed that. Or could be a common garden-variety issue like your hub bearings need replacement...they're cartridge sealed bearings, correct?

Noises like that drive me nuts! I feel your pain

[Garth]

   FWIW, If it is your spokes that plucking sound would be recognizable as they have a distinct pitch to them. If it's a lower pitch it is not the spokes.

[Jay in Tel Aviv]

Seems I've wasted a few drops of oil which will probably just attract dirt.
Test run and most likely change out the wheel tomorrow. Then find decent replacement bearings on ebay.

[Robert Barr]

Jay, my experience is similar to Ren'e's. I had a persistent rythmic click that I couldn't find. After much adjusting and inspecting, a friend who is a wheel  builder heard me say that there was no click on the stand. He took the tire off and carefully looked at the rim while he hand stressed it.
Under load a hairline cracked appeared in the rim.  The crack was visible with a 10X hand lens, but not by eye unless under slight load. Bob

[Jay in Tel Aviv]

The bearings I bought finally showed up and I had some time today, so I got to work.
Followed the directions for disassembling the hub to find that the original bearings were fine. Smoother than the new ones actually.
I put everything back together with a new freewheel (I had it and that was easier than cleaning the old one) new chain and new inner tube.
Adjusted the chain tension, adjusted the brakes and took it for a test ride.
And ... no more clicking.

None of the things I changed could have possibly been the cause. But there it is.
And I learned how to take my hub apart.

:)

[adam leibow]

sometimes i hear clicking and it's the crank arm hitting the cable end of the front derailer. that's probably not it but it's worth a check. 

[Patrick Moore]

Or -- this has happened to me more than once -- the aglets of your shoelaces hitting the crank arm at each revolution.

[Lungimsam]

Or, loose valve stem nuts!

[Jay in Tel Aviv]

Hahaha.
I have no shoelaces (Keens) and no front derailer

Jay

On Saturday, September 17, 2016 at 9:01:11 AM UTC+3, Lungimsam wrote:

Or, loose valve stem nuts!

[Jay in Tel Aviv]

And no loose nuts either.

[Surlyprof]

When commuting through San Jose thursday, I too heard an annoying and rhythmic clicking sound. I stopped and looked but saw nothing obvious. The only thing I knew for sure was that it was coming from the rear wheel. I thought "great... ny beautiful Phil hub is going".

When I got to my office I saw the bobby pin that had impaled one of the knobbies on my mondials and was clicking against the frame! Pulled it out with no harm done. I doubt this is your problem but you may want to check the tires closely anyway. Weird things happen.

John

[Clayton]

Undiagnosed clicks are maddening. I have had problems in the past diagnosing clicks. My last click turned out to be a slightly loose chain ring bolt, but that was my problem. On to your problem. Here are some suggestions:  Lube all your nipples at the rim, but not the threads. Remove your rim tape and inspect nipple rim interface. Check your hub for cracks at the spoke holes. If they are double wall rims, take it off and shake the wheel and see if anything inside rattles. If you are running real low air pressure and have a very tight fit under fenders, the tire could grow at speed and create a tick, so check your fenders to see if they slipped or moved (happened to me). While holding the axle of the wheel in your hands, spin the wheel and feel for rough spots in the bearings. Also, check both wheels. For me, the sounds source is hard to discern while riding. It might not be the wheel you think it is. Maybe the other one?

Best of luck!

Clayton (Bend)