Thunder Burt Wisdom...

[Deacon Patrick]

Since I have two other tire threads going, I may as well go for the trifecta! Grin.

Any and all experiences with Thunder Burts appreciated. I’m trying them out as a fast rolling all terraine tire (I know they are a racing tire, viewing it as a wide knobby version of the Barlow Pass, sort of — hoping for a smoother, faster ride over all terrians).

With abandon,

Patrick

www.MindYourHeadCoop.org

www.OurHolyConception.org

[cyclotourist]

I have them in 27.5. Very fast on road, and as noted in the other thread, just enough side knobs to give you some cornering traction on dirt. Love 'em.

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Cheers,
David

Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

[Deacon Patrick]

Fantastic! How are they lasting you, David?

With abandon,

Patrick

[cyclotourist]

They wear pretty good. The middle raised square ridges wear down moderately fast, outside knobs stay good longer and are usable for a while. Puncture protection isn't the best, as they're pretty thin. I have some tubeless 29ers I'll rig up eventually.

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[hsmitham]

Funny I'm waiting to get my 26 x 2.1 TB's. I've had the same questions and hoping for the best! I elected to go with the snake skin side wall for added puncture protection and still I'm shaving a little more than two pounds of ( currently running Big Ben's 910 grams each) rotational weight. Glad to hear they wear reasonably well and better to hear how fast they are on both surfaces. I'm in the camp of I'd rather have a great rolling experience with the hassle of fixing a flat. I don't intend to do crazy down hill racing over extreme terrain so these should do the trick. I don't have immediate plans to run tubeless as I don't have tubeless rims perhaps in the future I'll do a wheel build.

~Hugh "Weight Weenie" Smitham 

[Deacon Patrick]

We'll get to try them together, Hugh! Here's what sold me on supple as a priority for tires:

-- I put on and rode my well worn Duremes 50mm on my Hunqapillar. I rode the 5 mile trail and dirt road I ride to get anywhere. The ride was more jarring than on the Quickbeam Clement MSO's (which are rather supple, even for the 60 TPI casing). The ride was jarring enough that it bothered my brain (stunning to get a glimpse of just how fine a razor edge I ride even on "good brain days!") so rather than the planned ride of 20+ miles to check out how snowy the trails are, I turned around.

-- Interestingly, at faster descent speeds the ride was much smoother than the slower speeds on the climb up the pass, I presume because higher speeds equal greater forces that caused even the Duremes to comply with the road. Grin.

I also opted for the snake skin, though I was tempted to try the lightest, most supple version to see how that went.

With abandon,

Patrick

[cyclotourist]

I don't think the Snakeskin sidewalls are really needed unless you're running tubeless. Weak sidewalls are the bane of a tubeless system, but with tubes, it's not really a problem. YMMV.

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[Deacon Patrick]

I suspect you're right, David. It may be overkill having the snakeskin. That's what I get for reading so many reviews from people I don't know (I at least feel like I know you all a bit) who tore their sidewalls on rocky trails. The Smart Sam's have a beefier casing, but none of the protection, but perhaps I needlessly sacrificed supple sidewalls.

With abandon,

Patrick

[cyclotourist]

I've damaged plenty of sidewalls, but the only time it ever mattered was when riding tubeless. The Snakeskin sidewalls are fine, but you'll be sacrificing a bit of suppleness. Definitely gaining protection in the bargain, so nothing wrong with that!

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[Deacon Patrick]

Wow! Holy Smokes! Gadzooks! Absolutely amazing. Wow!

All surfaces are smoother, faster, grippier, more sure. Butter.

Now, lets hope they last at least a year. Sardonic grin. Photo (and the next three to the left):

https://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/16724441584/

With abandon,

Patrick

[Patrick Moore]

What were you using before? Sorry, I missed that part of the conversation.

I must keep those in mind for the Fargo, though I seem to be going in a more roady direction with that bike: from 37 lb and 12 psi 65 mm tires to 28 lb and skinny little 51 mm tires (tho' I just checked pressure after 19 miles of pavement and dirt and the are, F/R, 15/18.) 

That said, the Furious Freds are Pretty Damn' Good -- on pavement I was pushing the same gear, roughly, as on my errand road bike with Kojaks -- shifting between 64" on dirt, briefly 60" on a sandy couple of miles churned up by horses, to 68" and 72" on pavement depending on wind. The beau ideal would be 60 mm Furious Freds without the little central knoblets and slightly bigger knobs on the shoulders.

Today's ride, discovering and re-discovering nearby roads and trails -- beside the acequia trails and roads, there are dozens of pretty little neighborhoods scattered throughout the area (essentially, I-40 in the south to a mile or so north of Alameda, and from the river to 2nd Street, w/e). I found some of both that I've not seen before, and others that I've not ridden for a long while. Basically, I followed my nose and got myself pleasantly lost, discovering that what I had thought was East (or really, ESE, the direction of the Sandias).

I would almost be tempted to get one of the new Rawlands built around 559 X 50 mm tires, but I am sold on 622 fatties. IME -- and, though I've taken no measurements, I daresay my experience of 50+ years of riding is worth something -- taller tires of the same width roll better over small bumps -- washboard, say -- and sand, and that at higher pressures than 559s of the same width. That is to say that, IME, a 622X 60-65 at 20 rolls through sand and washboard like a 559 X 60 at 12/17.

I suspect that more of my riding will be this sort of (sandy and choppy) dirt + pavement, given that I have scores of such beautiful miles near my house; and this tempts me (get thee behind me, Satan!) to consider a Chauncey Matthews custom in the allroud idiom, but translated into NW Albuquerque riding conditions. 

But enough about me!

Patrick: I'll be interested to learn how the TBs perform and hold up longer term. 

Are you using tubes? A wee nudge toward tubeless ...

Oh! My new front wheel, with very nice, bright silver, cartridge-bearing disk front hub -- Sunshine brand? $15 or so shipped eBay NEW -- and Avid 160 mm rotor, plus FF tire and sealant, as well as a Nashbar allen skewer, all on the new Velocity Blunt SS rim, weighs exactly 1,502.5 grams.

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[Patrick Moore]

I see that my story idea outran my narrative talent. I meant to say: I got pleasantly lost, and was pleasantly surprised to find myself heading North when I thought I had been riding East -- interesting how familiar landmarks (in this case a certain section of the very familiar Rio Grande recreational trail) appear so foreign when one is geographically discombobulated.

[Patrick Moore]

One last remark: I'm not hugely experienced with different tire brands and models, but I have used many Schwalbes, and I daresay that this company is easily in the top 3, if not #1 outright, when it comes to Intelligent Design -- of tires that are durable and comfortable and fast rolling at reasonable prices.

On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 3:19 PM, Deacon Patrick <lamon...@mac.com> wrote:

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[Deacon Patrick]

I rode Dureme 50's for the first 2 years, Smart Sam 2.25 front/2.1 rear for the last year. Interestingly, I'd put the Smart Sams on par with the smooth ride of Clement MSO 60 TPI. I'm debating when it is time to replace the QB's tires if I go Barlow Pass or MSO 120/dual compound. Since the Burts roll so beautifully (seriously, the Hunqapillar handled much more like the QB with them on!), I'm likely more comfortable going with the Barlow Pass and stop pushing the QB into the grey zone of underbiking rougher trails.

I'm excited to see what trouble this gets me into, and eager to see what the flat and durability experience is and if I go with the light version next time.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Deacon Patrick]

Tubeless: I've debated this and doubt I'll try it. Too fussy when the tire comes off if I'm in the middle of nowhere. I'm running them at 30 PSI and they handled 40+ MPH (no idea of exact speed as I don't use a computer) curvy mountain descents fantastically, on both dirt and asphalt.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Deacon Patrick]

Mud report: 2.1" Thunder Burts float over the mud compared to Smart Sams. I was stunningly fast climbing up muddy roads and trails (sinking in an inch plus when I stopped and stood on the road or trail, often quite a bit more, once in something akin to quicksand made from clay and decomposed granite up to my ankle before I climbed to a tuft of grass, not knowing how much further to bottom). This comes at the expense of grip, tending to wash out. I had plenty of traction to maintain forward momentum, but things were sloppy on rutty parts with various ridges and valleys. For me, on today's ride, the positive of speed due to floating over the mud far outweighed the negative of the wash. I continue to be very impressed with these as an excellent all rounder.

With abandon,

Patrick 

[stonehog]

I will have a better report after the Oregon Outback, but I've been commuting and done a couple 25+ mile rides with gravel on the Hunqa with tubeless Thunder Burts (TLR, not Snakeskin), and they are great so far.  I do ~30/40 front/rear PSI, and no flats or problems thus far.  Probably have 400 miles on 'em. Good wear, good traction, better ride than Hetres (rode them yesterday for comparison) - maybe not quite as fast on pave, but smooth and more compliant over bumpy sections.  Volume helps!  

Another Hunqa Thunder: https://flic.kr/p/s8QDjZ

Brian Hanson

Seattle, WA

[Liesl]

I'm intrigued!  Can anyone compare how's the clearance for fenders with Big Ben v. Thunder Burts?  And thoughts about the TB's as a commuter tire, summer and winter both?  The reduction in weight is of great interest.  I run 26" BB's on the wee but long custom and *love* the ride (and that I can get them in brown).  However, I'm just not that big and not that young so when the bike is set up with front and rear racks and bags, it's hard for me to carry it up and down the stairs to the basement where the little steed beds down for the night in fluffy fresh hay.  Losing 2 pounds in tires would be appreciated!  Also note that I am not flat-prone (which of course will change immediately now that I put it in writing).

RCW

[Mike Shaljian]

Looks like Schwalbe is now offering the Thunder Burt in 29 X 2.25" ! Very exciting for those looking for even more volume! http://bit.ly/1H1SrjZ

I already have a super duper 3" knobby (Bontrager Chupacabra) so I'll be passing on these, but I'm looking forward to trying to run Super Motos tubeless and I'll report back on how that goes. Seems like these could work with the latest Hunqapillars without fenders, from what I've heard. The Super Moto is also a really nice tire, if you can fit it.

[Deacon Patrick]

Liesl, When I talked with the folks at Riv (I don't remember who), they said Big Ben would not be as supple but would have more protection.

I have to say, given what I put the tires through on my abbreviated tour, if you aren't flat prone, you would love these. I'm considering taking the Hunqapillar rather than the Quickbeam up Pikes Peak (all paved, with a loooooong curvy climb at the begening and a looooooong curvy fast descent at the end). With me and full water, food, and gear, the bike weighed 280 pounds. I had a LOT of sandyish clayish mud to bog my way through and I still felt like I was floating over it compared with the Smart Sams (though my legs will tell you differently). The descents were equally challenging, with that same mud strewn liberally with fist-sized and larger rocks there was no way to miss. I was surprised by how well they handled all the varied conditions and terrain and circumstances.

Yes, it's $90 a pop, but I'd say if you're asking the question, you'll like the only answer that matters and that's the ride. Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Hugh Smitham]

Liesl,

I just received by TB's and promptly mounted them on my '03 Atlantis running 26" wheels and took it for a spin today. My initial reaction is damn wow! I road mixed terrain,  mostly sandy loose trail with some fist sized rocks. Right off the bat I was amazed how fast they rolled over asphalt and how sure footed they felt in the loose trail, especially compared to the Big Ben's I've been running.

Clearance:

I have 60 mm SKS fenders and the TB's have gobs more room, probably because they measure 47.5mm on my DT Swiss 23mm OD MTB rims, versus the Big Ben's which on the same rims measures approximately 53.5mm.

Supple:

I know this seems a stretch but they have that Grand Bois Hetre suppleness which at least for me translates into a cush ride. I ran them at 40 psi and they rolled really quick, sort of feel like I could run em at 35 psi and be fine.

Price:

I purchased them from http://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/schwalbe-thunder-burt-evo-snakeskin-pacestar-26x2.10-tl-easy-folding-405726 for two I paid IIRC $85.76 approximately that included shipping. They arrived really quickly considering they came from Germany and had to go through customs.

Keep in mind I can't speak to durability since I just started riding them, pretty sure the Big Ben's will last a really long time. I however am willing to sacrifice that for a supple, fast, weight saving tire that increases my riding pleasure, along with the potential for increased flats. Hey out West here the dreaded "Goat Head" don't discriminate. They went easily through my brand new Big Ben's.

I think with the cost it's an easy decision.

Happy riding,

~Hugh

On May 6, 2015 9:31 AM, "Liesl" <li...@smm.org> wrote:

I'm intrigued!  Can anyone compare how's the clearance for fenders with Big Ben v. Thunder Burts?  And thoughts about the TB's as a commuter tire, summer and winter both?  The reduction in weight is of great interest.  I run 26" BB's on the wee but long custom and *love* the ride (and that I can get them in brown).  However, I'm just not that big and not that young so when the bike is set up with front and rear racks and bags, it's hard for me to carry it up and down the stairs to the basement where the little steed beds down for the night in fluffy fresh hay.  Losing 2 pounds in tires would be appreciated!  Also note that I am not flat-prone (which of course will change immediately now that I put it in writing).

RCW

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[Tony DeFilippo]

Hugh or anyone else who can answer....  

http://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/schwalbe-thunder-burt-evo-snakeskin-pacestar-27%2C5x2%2C25-tl-easy-folding-444604/wg_id-8913

-540grams, $37

vs

http://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/schwalbe-thunder-burt-performance-dc-650b-27%2C5-x-2%2C10-98533/wg_id-238

-440grams, $16

I know that the 'performance' line of Schwable is their cheaper line, maybe the website weight's are off.  Regardless of the weight can anyone comment on the ride-feel differences between the performance vs 'evo-snakeskin-pacestar' in schwable tires?

Thanks!

[Tim Gavin]

Tony-

You have some apples and oranges going on here.

http://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/schwalbe-thunder-burt-evo-snakeskin-pacestar-27%2C5x2%2C25-tl-easy-folding-444604/wg_id-8913

-540grams, $37

The "evolution" tire you linked to is 2.25" wide, but the "performance" one is 2.1" wide.  Also, the "evolution" tire has a tubeless bead.

vs

http://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/schwalbe-thunder-burt-performance-dc-650b-27%2C5-x-2%2C10-98533/wg_id-238

-440grams, $16

That accounts for a little of the weight discrepancy, but I don't believe that the "performance" Thunder Burt weighs only 440 grams with a steel bead.  The steel bead "performance" TB isn't listed on Schwalbe NA's Thunder Burt page, so I can't confirm.

Regardless, the difference in ride/feel between the "performance" and "evolution" lines would probably startle you.  The Super Moto (evolution line, Pacestar compound) feels as supple as any Grand Bois or Pari Moto tire I've ridden.  They're super fast.  The "performance" line Fat Franks I put on my girlfriend's bike are nice, but nowhere near as fast.

I'd rule out the "performance" Thunder Burt, unless you don't care about performance.

Looks like your choices are:

584 x 54 mm, in Liteskin (415g) or Snakeskin/Tubeless (480g)

584 x 57 mm, in Snakeskin/Tubeless (540g)

Less than $40 each, considering they're >$90 at US retail, seems like a great deal.  

I may add a pair of 559 x 54 Thunder Burts, in Liteskin, to my order once they get Super Motos back in stock next week.

Tim

[cyclotourist]

I have the Performance line right now. They're fine, but not tubeless ready. If you don't plan on going tubeless, I'd say get the cheaper/lighter Performance. Snakeskin means an extra layer of material on the sidewalls. Very useful if you ride in areas w/ sharp rocks that damage tires regularly. Also quite useful when riding tubeless as sidewall damage can end your ride.

BTW, very positive experiences purchasing Schwalbes German mail-order sites.

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[Mark Reimer]

Mike, 

I have the 2.25" tires in my 58cm Atlantis. Been there about a month. They are AWESOME. They roll way way faster than Rock N Roads or WTB 2.1 Nano's, the only two tires I've used in my Atlantis so far. 

I only wish I would have found them for as cheap as listed here. I think I paid around 125 per tires, ouch! Canadian dollar contributes to that though.. 

https://flic.kr/p/rUeDzP

On Thursday, May 7, 2015 at 11:00:23 PM UTC-5, Mike Shaljian wrote:

Look, Schwalbe is offering the Thunder Burt as a 29 X 2.25" model now! Even more volume for super-cush All-Road and trails riding! http://www.schwalbe.com/en/offroad-reader/thunder-burt.html

[Deacon Patrick]

I haven't measured them but my Thunder Burts have less clearance now after 150ish miles than they did at first, at 30 psi. So they do grow in size with inflation and use, which seems typical of a more supple tire. Size accordingly.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Mark Reimer]

Deacon, how much did they expand? I wish I would have measured mine when I installed them. They are tiiiiight in my Atlantis. I've ground to a halt once when I hit some wet mud already. Really pushing the limits of my frame with these :)

--

[Deacon Patrick]

Unfortunately, the technical term is "yea much," Mark. Sardonic grin. It's based on thinking when I installed them "they have more clearance than the 2.1 Smart Sams" and thinking on my bikepacking trip yesterday, "They have expanded to be about the same as the Smart Sams, but with smaller knobbies they still have a bit more."

With abandon,

Patrick

[Hugh Smitham]

Funny on the 26er I have a ton of room! I sort of wished they made em larger for 26" but then they'd be heavier! 

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipedemusings.blogspot.com/

[Mike Schiller]

I have the 650B x 2.1" version.  They measure 51+mm wide on my Dyads which are 24.5mm outside width.  I have the same Performance version David has.  They are an OEM tire and not generally for sale and they are folding beads. 

~mike Carlsbad CA

[Hugh Smitham]

MIke,

If I knew what I know now I'd have built a wheel set with wider rims for the Atlantis! 

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipedemusings.blogspot.com/

On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 9:33 AM, Mike Schiller <mikey...@rocketmail.com> wrote:

I have the 650B x 2.1" version.  They measure 51+mm wide on my Dyads which are 24.5mm outside width.  I have the same Performance version David has.  They are an OEM tire and not generally for sale and they are folding beads. 

~mike Carlsbad CA

[Tony DeFilippo]

Thanks for the info guys, I'll check out the 2.1" ones. My Bombadil would probably fit the 2.25's but it'll be close and if they 'grow' any it would be a problem.

[Mark Reimer]

I would be surprised if the 2.25's didn't fit, I've got room to spare in my Atlantis, mounted to Dyad rims.

I went for a 100km gravel ride on them on the weekend. I felt a bit sluggish, thought it was the legs, just one of those days. When I got home I realized I had been running them at around 15-18psi, hah! I'm all for low pressure, but that was too low... Brought them up to about 25 and it was back to feeling zippy again. 

[Deacon Patrick]

Yes, 25-35 psi (depending on load) is the sweet spot on mine.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Daniel Jackson]

Hi Deacon,

Wondering what rims and what brakes your running on your Hunq with Burts. I'm considering setting up a Velocity Chukker with some 2.1 Burts and Paul Touring Cantilever breaks. Do you think clearance would work out?

Thanks,

Daniel

[Deacon Patrick]

I'm running Atlas in the rear and Synergy in the front with Tektro CR720 Cantilever Brakes. Brake clearence should be fine, as I've eyeballed Paul cantis for someday on the Hunqapillar (I have them on my Quickbeam, though I love how the Tektros work, so will ride them into the ground first). Depending on the vintage of your Hunqapillar, the main issue will be chain stay clearance. That's where I'm snuggest and I have the less clearence Hunq.

With abandon,

Patrick

[cyclotourist]

I had a GREAT ride yesterday on TBs. I wanted to see how much sand
they could tolerate, and for relatively short stretches (<25
yards/meters) they did pretty well. I had to walk them a few times,
but not bad. 30 mile ride yesterday through lots of sand, and a decent
amount of asphalt. Neither slowed them down too much:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/sets/72157652601078389

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[Daniel Jackson]

What year did the chain stay clearance increase? Did the paint job change that year from bean/green-grey to cream/green?

[Deacon Patrick]

Not sure when the shift happened, but it was with the first green batch as far as I know.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Deacon Patrick]

I couldn't resist sharing this photo from today's wee ride, but didn't think it deserved its own thread. So here are the Thunder Burts climbing a third of a mile of trail-become-creek with all our rain. Climbing the smooth Pikes Peak Highway to get to the trail head, the tires were very smooth. Descending at over 40 mph, I heard the tires, but they are still smooth and buttery. They lean into curves beautifully.

https://flic.kr/p/srtekj

With abandon,

Patrick

[Daniel Jackson]

Hey Deacon,

What model Burt are you running? Snakeskin, Raceguard, none of the above? Any idea about differences in puncture resistance between the Snakeskin and Raceguard forms?

Thanks,

D.

[Deacon Patrick]

I'm running Snakeskin but wish I'd gotten the plain, most supple. Next time, and then I'll know. My understanding is: Snakeskin = sidewall protection and best for tubeless; Raceguard = puncture protection.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Hugh Smitham]

Mark Reimers buddy on the OOB slashed a TB. Still waiting to hear which version he was running. The weight savings was so nominal I chose puncture resistance.

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipedemusings.blogspot.com/

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[Mark Reimer]

Just finished a 7 day gravel tour, including the Oregon outback. Tires are shredded. My buddy graham had two rear blowouts and a dime sized piece of tire in the middle tear out. I have some big slashes halfway through the tread and the knobs are showing signs of tearing. These tires roll so nicely but seem to be too soft for loaded gnarly road touring. Full report to come...

[Mike Schiller]

The TB's are considered a "race" tire by Schwalbe.  I would only use the Snakeskin version for extended off-road touring.  They are wonderful tires.

I've been using Panaracer Comets recently, less supple but more durable and roll pretty good on pavement.

~mike

Carlsbad Ca

[Deacon Patrick]

Bummer the problems were that significant, Mark. So far so good for me, but we don't have much in the way of flint, more micro-edge sharp roundish decomposed granite, or exposed decomposed granite boulders on trails. I suspect a lot depends on the type of road. Perhaps weight matters a great deal too, as Jan raced OOB on much thinner tires but without the touring load. I look forward to reading your fuller experience with them!

With abandon,

Patrick

[Hugh Smitham]

Mike,

Mark & his buddy Graham were rolling with the snakeskin's. But yeah they're race tires not originally designed for loaded touring. I'm bummed to hear how they didn't hold up, still gonna ride with em, even though Mark's experience...at least for now.

~Hugh

[cyclotourist]

Yeah, wonder what the carried weight amount was. Bummer that they
didn't hold up as hoped for...

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[David Yu Greenblatt]

In the MTB world Schwalbe is known for making fast (low rolling resistance) but relatively fragile tires. Here in SoCal many mountain bikers who enjoy bombing down gnarly downhills eschew them because of their relatively low longevity, even with Snakeskin or Super Gravity enhanced construction.

Thunder Burt is the fastest Schwalbe tire available for XC MTB racing. It's what a pro would choose for trying to win the XC gold medal at the Olympics (if she wasn't running something more exotic like a tubular).

Loaded backcountry touring is way way off the intended use grid for Thunder Burts. Not to say it is a bad idea, just that (many/severe) flats are to be expected.

Snakeskin only means more durable sidewalls, not additional puncture/cut protection under the tread.

Sealant will only seal punctures and small cuts.

I really like Schwalbe Evolution line XC tires like Thunder Burt and Racing Ralph for trail riding (and even more delicate tires like Compass Babyshoe Pass and Pacenti Pari Moto). I'm willing to accept a much higher risk of flats and limited tire lifespan to get that sweet ride. I carry spare tubes and tube patches and sealant and a tire boot patch.

For a multiday off-road bikepacking with Thunder Burts carrying a spare tire would be a good idea. I've read that you can fix major casing cuts in the field with a needle and dental floss plus shoe goo, but I've never had to try that yet.

- David G in San Diego

> On May 25, 2015, at 3:42 PM, cyclotourist <cyclot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yeah, wonder what the carried weight amount was. Bummer that they
> didn't hold up as hoped for...
>
>> On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 2:16 PM, Hugh Smitham <hughs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Mike,
>>
>> Mark & his buddy Graham were rolling with the snakeskin's. But yeah they're
>> race tires not originally designed for loaded touring. I'm bummed to hear
>> how they didn't hold up, still gonna ride with em, even though Mark's
>> experience...at least for now.
>>
>> ~Hugh
>>
>>> On May 25, 2015 1:25 PM, "Mike Schiller" <mikey...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The TB's are considered a "race" tire by Schwalbe. I would only use the
>>> Snakeskin version for extended off-road touring. They are wonderful tires.
>>>
>>> I've been using Panaracer Comets recently, less supple but more durable
>>> and roll pretty good on pavement.
>>>
>>> ~mike
>>> Carlsbad Ca
>>>
>>> --
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[Patrick Moore]

On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 6:55 PM, David Yu Greenblatt <david.yu....@gmail.com> wrote:

In the MTB world Schwalbe is known for making fast (low rolling resistance)  but relatively fragile tires.

For the record, the Big Apple obviously not a dedicated off road tire, is very sturdy while still rolling well.

Thunder Burt is the fastest Schwalbe tire available for XC MTB racing.

I think that the Furious Fred is considered their ne plus ultra when it comes to speed -- lowest weight and rolling resistance. It's lighter, that's for sure.

 

[David Yu Greenblatt]

Patrick, Furious Fred is lighter, Thunder Burt 

--

[David Yu Greenblatt]

Patrick, Furious Fred is lighter, but Thunder Burt is faster:

http://www.schwalbe.com/en/offroad-reader/thunder-burt.html

- David G in San Diego

[Patrick Moore]

I wish I'd known that before I bought 3 more of the FFs from Wiggle! Oh well, the FF is plenty fast.

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[Daniel Jackson]

So if I were to go with Schwalbe for dirt road touring, would Nobby Nics or Smart Sams be a smarter choice? Other alternatives that folks have tried? Maxxis Ardents? 

[Daniel Jackson]

Mark, what versions of the tire were ya'll running?

[Hugh Smitham]

Daniel,

They were running the Snakeskin version.

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipedemusings.blogspot.com/

[Mike Shaljian]

It would seem like the Schwalbe 'Rock Razor' might be a good model to try for dirt touring (http://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/off-road_tires/Rock_Razor). . .

I've been searching for the perfect medium-duty touring tire as well. I have helped a friend setup some Super Motos as tubeless on her 29+ bike and am going to do the same on mine, in order to have a "go faster" wheelset along with my 3" Chupacabras. The trouble with the Lite-Skin Super Motos is that the sidewall is very leaky and the tires don't have a TL-Easy/Ready bead. Hers seem to be starting to hold pressure after a week of fussing.

Due to the leaky nature of Super Motos, I've considered the option of getting some Rock Razors and sanding off the nubs to have a TL-Ready, 2.35" tire that would be fit for lighter touring and fast gravel/paved road rides. If this was going to be your main loaded dirt touring tire the nubs would obviously help!

[Philip Kim]

Anyone tried to fit fenders with these tires? Specifically the 26". Wondering if SKS P65 will fit or if I should get club on MTB fenders?

[Hugh Smitham]

I have a 26" Atlantis and pretty sure the SKS P65 fenders with 2.1 TB's. Tons of room! Here's proof.

https://flic.kr/p/swigrU

I've since cleaned up the fender line.

~Hugh

Anyone tried to fit fenders with these tires? Specifically the 26". Wondering if SKS P65 will fit or if I should get club on MTB fenders?

[Philip Kim]

Very cool, and no trouble off the road? I've never put fenders on knobbies before and was hesitant due to people saying it was dangerous.

[Hugh Smitham]

Yes off road is ok. Not with thunder burt's but I had Big Ben's measuring approximately 53mm and mud was an issue. But the TB's on my rims measure ~47mm so more clearance.  If your planning on riding through a lot of mud perhaps ditch the fenders. Though I've seen fender-less rigs brought down by mud.

Also I could see where riding through a lot of debris might be a problem,  with sticks getting caught between tire & fender. I've had it happen on my Hilsen & fenders with much tighter clearance. When it happened the SKS fenders have a break-away safety front fender. Clear the obstruction and re-seat the fender stays and yer rolling.

Hope this helps.

Tail winds,

~Hugh

On Mon, Jun 8, 2015, 4:21 PM Philip Kim <phili...@gmail.com> wrote:

Very cool, and no trouble off the road? I've never put fenders on knobbies before and was hesitant due to people saying it was dangerous.

[stonehog]

I'm surprised to hear Mark's experience with shredded Thunder Burts on the Oregon Outback.  I ran the liteskin 2.1" tubeless, and had one leak early on the first day, but managed to spin seal it, and never had to pump it up again.  My buddy was running the Snakeskin 2.1 rear and 2.25 front, and had a similar early leak on the rear that we sealed with some pumping and spinning, but he did manage to pinch flat the front on an extra aggressive creek crossing submerged rock hit on day 4 (the guy behind us double flatted his beefier tires), and we tubed it due to a .5 cm cut that needed more than sealant.  At the end of the ride, after a clean up, the tires don't look too much worse for wear.  I could see putting a lot more miles on these bad boys.  And dammmmnn - they are supple!

Brian

Seattle, WA

On Thursday, April 30, 2015 at 5:35:53 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:

Since I have two other tire threads going, I may as well go for the trifecta! Grin.

Any and all experiences with Thunder Burts appreciated. I’m trying them out as a fast rolling all terraine tire (I know they are a racing tire, viewing it as a wide knobby version of the Barlow Pass, sort of — hoping for a smoother, faster ride over all terrians).

With abandon,

Patrick

www.MindYourHeadCoop.org

www.OurHolyConception.org

[Hugh Smitham]

Brian,

Glad to hear your report em. I wasn't giving up them and hearing your experiences adds to my resolve to run them. And so supple :)

Tail Winds,

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipedemusings.blogspot.com/

[Deacon Patrick]

Update on Thunder Burts:

I've ridden the "light skin" TBs for about a week now and have been surprised how much more supple they are than even the "snake skin". THat's testing them out on the gnarly frozen slush on a walking trail, so it's rougher than most and they are noticeably smoother than the snake skin casing. No flats for a year on the snake skin for me last year, so I'll see what they do this year. But ordering from Germany is well worth it. For six tires we paid $36.33 a tire including shipping from http://www.bike-discount.de.

With abandon,

Patrick 

[Mark Reimer]

Wow now that is a good deal!! I may have to order some...

My 2.25 TBs are still running since the oregon outback. I've had one flat, after hitting a broken beer bottle on the trail. I've also started using the 2.1's just to get a bit more clearance when it's muddy. The 2.25s lock up pretty quick when you hit the peanut butter mud. 

[Deacon Patrick]

Like you, Mark, I find the "extra" clearance of the 2.1" wonderful -- though if I had the green Hunqapillar I'd likely love the extra width/float of the 2.25s.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Michael Cinibulk]

What reading do you get from calipers on width of the 2.1,and 2.25 TBs? Are Schwalbes generally true to size on old school MTB rims?

Mike C

[iamkeith]

just reading this thread for the first time myself.   There's a post from Hugh near the top that cites 47.5mm on 23mm rims Presumably for the 2.1 x 26" tire.

[Deacon Patrick]

My light skin 29 x 2.1" TBs measure 2" (51mm). They are a weekish old, and have not been inflated over 20 psi, so I'd expect they'd stretch to 2.1" fairly easily with increased pressure.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Tim Gavin]

My liteskin 26 x 2.1" Thunder Burts also measure 51 mm on Mavic 319 rims (23 mm external).  Plenty of clearance under P65 fenders.

Tim Gavin

Cedar Rapids, IA

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