Keto next week: how do i not bonk?

[Lum Gim Fong]

20 mile round trip gatorade fueled trips in the past.
How do i not bonk while ketoing?
I plan to stay in maffetone fat burning effort zone. That will help.

[Lum Gim Fong]

20 mile round trip commute trips

[Deacon Patrick]

Your body has to learn to drink deep fat instead of sucking sugar. You may bonk. Continue slowly anyway. 20 miles RT is nothing for once you are fat adapted. I do century rides without eating anything, having fasted since dinner the day before. But it takes time.

If you bonk: Stop. Rest. Give your body (liver, I think?) time to catch up, to learn to use unused muscles. They have to get stronger and rediscover how to function. 20-30 minutes. Then ride on, slow. You may have to ride maddeningly slow. That’s just fine. Your body will get better and stronger at this and you will improve. You may ride half the time, rest half. That’s ok. My rule of thumb is the body takes 3 months to make an initial adjustement to any big change — and that’s just the initial adjustement. Grin. Other benchmarks are 9 mo. , 18 mo, and 3 years. Persist for three months, keeping a log of info that seems pertinant along the way if you like. Then look back and be amazed at how far you’ve come.

Some people make the shift more easily if they allow themselves to sip their sugar instead of gulp, slowly weaning themselves off it. I find this just prolongs the challenge, but if it works for you, go for it! Try cold turkey first, though, and see how that goes.

For reference, I can’t imagine grabbing food or drink for a 20 mile ride, unless I plan on lazing about along the way and then I bring coffee. (You’ll discover you need a lot less water without carbs).

Let us know how you do!

With abandon,
Patrick

[Dave Small]

Hi Lum,

It takes 2-3 days to go into ketosis, but your body takes longer than that to become "keto-adapted" to the point that it's efficient at using fat for fuel.  It's a gradual process.  I've read that it typically takes about 3 weeks to become mostly keto-adapted, but online fora tell tales of folks who took 6-8 weeks.  

Last summer I left for a 7-day tour a few days short of my 3-week anniversary of starting keto.  We rode 46 to 73 miles each day.  I didn't eat breakfast.  About 20 miles into the ride I ate a handful of cashews or almonds.  About 20-25 miles after that we usually stopped to eat a meal, which in my case was an omelette with sausage or a salad with chicken or tuna.  That evening we ate a good-sized dinner, and by "good-sized" I mean "big."  Fuel-wise it was the best tour I'd taken to date.  

In March we did a 6-day tour in Florida; similar routine and distances, with similar results.  

You'll be fine.  Stay off the carbs, take it slowly for the first few weeks, and your body will adapt.  

Dave

[Jeffrey Arita]

Fantastic, Deacon Patrick!  

Best regards,

Jeff

[William!]

Anyone wanna chime in with their favored keto bikepacking recipes/items? Creating a packlist for the Outback next month, would love to hear what has worked for others.

[Birdman]

I’ll be interested in seeing what others recommend. I’ve only done one sub24o on Keto, but my favorite item was summer sausage.

Isaac
PDX

[Tim]

On a 20 mile ride, I don't think that the Gatorade you drink is fueling you. Those carbs only become a source of fuel when glycogen stores are depleted. Even if you're a carb eater, and you have fasted, you still have enough glycogen (stored carbs) to ride 2 hrs, and even go anaerobic at times. I used to be very puzzled on 25 mile or so group rides with all the riders who were gobbling sugary energy bars (hooray for marketing!) When I did EBDJ, while training for PBP 2015, and became keto adapted, I could ride up to 3 hrs (~15 mph avg) with no food. I did a 200k perm, totally flat, with only sausage and cheese for fuel. I found it to be a miserable experience. The last half of the ride felt like a 5 hour bonk. I was only a couple of weeks into EBDJ, so maybe not quite keto adapted yet. 2-3 weeks later, I did the same 200k perm, and at the last C-store control, feeling pretty lousy, I had a Starbucks double shot (caffeine + carbs, yay!) and was very energized and able to finish not feeling like crap. I settled into a routine of fueling with carbs during rides of 100km or more.

Before and during my EBDJ, I followed with great interest, Deacon Patrick's thoughts and experiences. If I remember correctly, Patrick, you described 7-8 hour rides on your Hunqa with only coconut oil as fuel. I was never, ever able to get to such a point. But then again, with the epic sub zero temperature rides that you do, I feel that you're clinically insane. Sardonic grin....

Very interested to hear how it goes, Lum.

Tim "not doing EBDJ but should be" Kirch

[Patrick Moore]

I was amused at the thought of riders conscientiously snarfing sweet goos or potions for fear of bonking on a 20 mile ride. While I have no interest (except perhaps academic) in low carb diets, I have for decades eaten very little during the day, and getting most of my nourishment in the evening. I've read in many places that this is bad, but that's what I do -- usually large coffee or tea in the early morning, sometimes with sugar and milk, sometimes black; a small snack in the early afternoon; dinner after 5 pm.

Anyway, while I don't ride long distances, I have no problem riding a vigorous 30 miles on coffee and perhaps bread and cheese (coffee only if before 1, perhaps a snack if afterward), and I don't bonk, unless I wait too long after I return before eating something -- I will bonk if, at say 3 pm, I return after a ride on an empty stomach, and don't get around to eating because I get busy with something else -- for situations like this I do carry an emergency stash of glucose pills.

The problem with riding later in the day on an empty stomach, while of course drinking a lot of liquid, is that you need to pee every 15 minutes, which raises eyebrows.

Patrick Moore

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.

By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.

Other professional writing services.

http://www.resumespecialties.com/

Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, New Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique

****************************************************************************************

Auditis an me ludit amabilis insania?

[Deacon Patrick]

Tim, Aye. Any nutter whose signiture is “with abandon” ... well, that tells you all you need know. I’ve done tree day bikepack trips fasting the whole time. Had food, just never ate. I regularly go 24+ hours without food. Day rides, no matter how long, I do not take food. I debate taking food for S24Os. Always end up on the side of better have it and not eat it than want it and not have it.

William et al, I’m going cold camp this year with all our fire danger. Precooked roasts, steak, brats, etc. stay good for 3-5 days. Cheese. Butter (I smear it on the meat, close to a 1:1:1 ratio meat, cheese, butter, to up fat intake and make it more satiating as the fat has drained off after cooking), dark chocolate with a few coffee beans (no brewing coffee, no fire, cold camping). I find simple is best. I just eat one meal a day.

With abandon,
Patrick

[Garth]

Man oh man ...... Food  is indeed  FOOD ! 

Eat , Drink and be Merry ! 

You don't have to follow anyone opinion of how to eat, it's the most natural thing in the world.  No one can tell you how cuz you already know and it cannot be put into words, bought and sold and hoarded as "knowledge".

[Lum Gim Fong]

I think my bonking on commutes was related to sugar and diet drink intake near the time of riding.

I noticed that I would start bonking on the 15 mile ride home about 6 miles in after downing a coke zero an hour before leaving work. Couple bites of a granola bar and I would be fine a minute later.

But in this case, I will be riding on ketocarblimits per day and want to know what to do if not fat burning adapted for hilly bike rides yet and my body starts wondering what to do with my new glucose levels until it figures out what is going on.

[Ryan M.]

You really shouldn't need to take anything in except water on a 20 mile commute; it's just not that strenuous of a ride to burn through your stores you already have. Unless you are doing a bunch of VO2max intervals while commuting I wouldn't specifically feed just for it. 

Just some personal examples. Back when I rode with a cycling club our nightly road rides were 20 to 30 miles and I don't ever remember seeing anybody eat or drink any special food or drink on those. They were spirited pace line affairs with the sweaty lycra clad crowd. Nowadays I ride 12 mile mountain bike rides after work that net me between 120 and 150 TSS (training stress score...it's a trainingpeaks.com thing...I got a power meter on that bike....I'm really not a data nerd...honestly ;) ) and only drink water. they are strenuous enough rides that when I get home I'm hungry but I don't get near a state of bonking unless I don't eat for a few hours after.

Changing over to keto, I would imagine if you just take it relatively easy and don't do too many higher intensity miles your body will adapt to the new fuel fairly quickly.

[Deacon Patrick]

Lum said: “But in this case, I will be riding on ketocarblimits per day and want to know what to do if not fat burning adapted for hilly bike rides yet and my body starts wondering what to do with my new glucose levels until it figures out what is going on.”

Hopefully you have some more info now. Experience is the best teacher. Only one way to find out. Grin. Of course, the equation will keep changing, so the learning can be tricky along the way. You’ll do fine and learn a lot, even as you feel like you don’t understand what’s going on. How’s that for comforting. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

[Max S]

I’ll second what the others said: you should not need any additional fuel for a 20 mile ride under normal circumstances. But we don’t know the details of your eating habits and physiology, so... What I’d recommend is to use Strava or a power meter to estimate the caloric expenditure for the ride. Anything below 700 (dietary) calories, and the muscles should have that amount in glycogen. But if you had only a coffee for breakfast and your first substantial meal of the day is dinner, and the 20 mile commute home includes Strawberry Canyon, well then you probably need to eat a bit beforehand.

[Lum Gim Fong]

I’m shooting for keeping my heartrate low when I ride. Easy breathing. No hard efforts. Just riding for fun and commutes. Building aerobic base. Thanks for the info y’all!

I am looking forward to losing lots of weight. Don’t know how long I will stay in keto diet but we are trying 6 weeks to start. Hopefully can keep low carb/processed after, unless we find the keto enjoyable and want to keep going.

[Lum Gim Fong]

UPDATE:

Fears unfounded.

Rode great all summer/fall. Never bonked.

I noticed about 2 days where I had no recovery at all during the week I started keto. I guess that was the transitional period. Once in keto I found riding was better than ever and didn't feel trashed at all after rides like when I was a sugar burner.

Seemed like I could ride as much and as hard as I wanted and never felt trashed the next day like I did when sugar burner.

Lost 32lbs.

Now I am still eating the same keto-ish but a little looser. So I don't know if I am in keto from day to day but still feel like I am. Mostly just eat meats and above the ground veggies now. Atkins shakes and bars sometimes to subdue sweet cravings. Gotta get over that and find better snacks to eat.

I like keto diet and feel it is better for riding for me than a regular carby diet.

[Kevin Mulcahy]

It sounds like you're avoiding root veggies and tubers? Why is that? I'm eating carrots, parsnips, or sweet potatoes each day in my lunch bowl, but I'm not eating a keto diet. Just a whole food diet (also lost 30lbs this year). 

[Lum Gim Fong]

I read to avoid them on keto diet because high in carbs.