Is tube patching a permanent, reliable fix?

[lum gim fong]

What is your track record with patching?

Has it worked like a permanent, reliable fix for the tube?

I hear differing opinions about this.

I can save some $$ if patching is a permanent fix.

Not interested in tubeless at all. Just wondering about question in subject title. Thanks.

[Bill Lindsay]

Yes it’s a permanent fix.

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, Ca.

[Reed Kennedy]

I must have installed at least a hundred patches over the years. (I used to run narrow high pressure tires, and used to get more flats.)

I've had a handful of patches fail. These generally fall in to one of two categories:

• Put the puncture too close to the edge of the patch (to cover a big cut, or to try and cover both holes in a snakebite puncture with one small patch).
• Puncture right near the seam of the tube. (Sometimes it forms a little channel for air to get out.)

Even considering those, I have a patch failure rate of much below 5%. I consider it a permanent, reliable fix.

And what's the alternative? Throwing away a tube after every tiny puncture? What a waste!

Best,

Reed

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Garth]

It's permanent and reliable when done correctly, not if not. I like anyone who rides patched tubes do so for the life of the tube, which can be a very long while !

[Reed Kennedy]

Also worth mentioning: I only use good quality patch kits, generally Rema, sometimes Rustines. Never the glue-less ones.

Best,

Reed

[Kainalu V.]

Yes, but you gotta do it right. Steve P. mentioned sandpaper in another thread, used to rough up the surface, which I think also acts to take off whatever oxidation might hinder adhesion. After I've glued and applied the patch, I "spread" my patch like butter on the edges using my finger and a little adhesive. Works for me.

-Kai

BK NY

[Deacon Patrick]

Nothing is a permanent fix. Grin. Your tubes will eventually need replacing. However, for all practical purposes, yes. Patches are a permanent fix. I've ridden patched tires for years and keep patching them until I can't. They do not flat more often, and so long as I patch them correctly, the patches hold.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Steve Palincsar]

On 10/03/2017 05:36 PM, lum gim fong wrote:

What is your track record with patching?

Has it worked like a permanent, reliable fix for the tube?

I hear differing opinions about this.

I can save some $$ if patching is a permanent fix.

"Glueless" patches are a temporary fix to get you home that inevitably fail in the long run and end up ruining your tube.  "Regular" patches like the Remas if done correctly are a permanent fix.   It's not hard to do them correctly.

-- 
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia 
USA

[Peter White]

Yes. Done per the instructions, 100% success. I've never tried the glue-less types.

PJW

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Peter White

[Patrick Moore]

I've ripped patches off that were so firmly attached that they pulled the tube with them. With proper materials and proper technique, yes, they are very permanent indeed.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.

By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.

Other professional writing services.

http://www.resumespecialties.com/

www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/

Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, New Mexico, EUA

****************************************************************************************

Auditis an me ludit amabilis insania?

[Patrick Moore]

I should add that, Pre-Sealant, I applied well over 100 patches a year; I regularly bought 2 boxes of 100 Remas at a time; 200 usually lasted me a year. And this went on for at least 25 years after I moved to ABQ, NM.

[Philip Williamson]

I've never heard that tire-patching is impermanent. Every time my patching job has failed, it's been apparent right away. Patches last for years and years.

I've sealed a few tiny holes with Stan's sealant inside the tube, instead of by patching. So far so good on two out of three tries. These three tests were adding Stan's to the tube after the puncture and airing up the tire. 

Philip

www.biketinker.com

Santa Rosa, CA

[Eric Norris]

Properly done (which isn’t hard—just keep the patch area clean), patches last forever. I’ve found that most of the problems I have had in the past are related to cheap innertubes, not cheap patches. Seems like patches don’t stick to cheap tubes.

FWIW, I have had great results with patches and glue that can be bought in bulk online. The glue, I think, all comes from the same huge vat somewhere. Biggest problem I have is finding small patches. Knowing that most holes are almost microscopic, the huge patches that most places sell are overkill.

P.S. Ditch the sandpaper. You don’t need it. Just put a thin layer of glue on the tube.

P.P.S. Unless they’ve changed the formulation a *lot,* I would not recommend glueless patches. They might work as a temporary fix in a pinch, but they don’t last and will start leaking pretty quickly. 

P.P.P.S. I always carry at least one spare tube and use it to fix a flat tire on a ride. I patch the tube with the hole when I get back home.

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com

@CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

[Dave Small]

I never had a patch fail until I tried a glueless patch.  It lasted a week.  I replaced it with another one and it lasted a day.  I threw the rest of the pack away and am now back to "regular" patches.  They're permanent.  

[Patrick Moore]

My experience is that some "sanding" agent makes the patch more reliable; the "sanding" removes the mold release coating, I read. It's not for roughening the surface, and perhaps alcohol does as well -- I've not used it. At any rate, I myself would not apply a patch without sanding first.

[lum gim fong]

Sounds permanent. Do you all use patched tubes on your front wheel? Feel safe enough for that?

For anyone who's interested, Rivendell has a video in the articles section of their website teaching how to patch a tube.

[Deacon Patrick]

Aye. I don’t even consider it a risk and have never experienced it as an issue. My spare tubes are patched, as that only makes sense in rotation with the “swap tubes, patch in controlled environment” system.

With abandon,
Patrick

[George Schick]

I agree with all of the comments here about patching and patch types.  One thing I've noticed lately, though, is that LBS's do not seem to be stocking vulcanizing cement anymore - you can still get small tubes of it, but you have to buy an entire patch kit including patches and that useless sandpaper that comes with it.  Even Riv is sold out of those nice little tubes they sold.  So I've resorted to Eric's method - I carry a spare tube and fix the hole in the flatted tire when I get home.  I have a can (the kind with the brush attached to the inside of the lid) of universal cement that I got from an auto parts store - the stuff used with the plugs on holes in car tires - and it works just fine.  I do carry a small patch kit in case I get another flat on the road, but I've found that patching while out riding to be less successful than doing it at home were I get get the tube good and clean, use that can of cement, and clamp it on tightly with a c-clamp for a while until it's set up good.

[Garth]

I used to repair tubes at the spot of the puncture, but now carry 2 spares and just put on another tube and repair it at home. Instead of using those silly tubes, I bought a 8 oz. can of Slime brand rubber cement from an auto parts store. Being a sealed can with applicator, you can use it all and the can won't dry out. Works for me.

[Greg J]

Done right, I think the patch and the tube chemically become a single material -- I think the correct term may be "vulcanize."  So it should be permanent.  Now, if done in a rush, I've had the patch come off, but that's totally due to user error.  I typically patch a tube 3x or 4x before I replace with a new one. 

Greg

[Patrick Moore]

I'm curious: at what number do others draw the line, and why?

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Greg J <greg...@gmail.com> wrote:

... I typically patch a tube 3x or 4x before I replace with a new one. 

[Philip Kim]

like others have chimed yes i consider it a permanent fix, meaning i don't expect to have a problem with it again, unless the tube gets a problem elsewhere.

i use park tools patch kit and its been fine. i even used it on an air mattress 4 years ago. still holds air.

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 5:36:10 PM UTC-4, lum gim fong wrote:

[Deacon Patrick]

There's a line? Grin. When the hole is bigger than the patch I toss the tube. Tubes last me a long time. So far they die one of two ways: poor install and I blow the tube when I first pump it up; the tire dies also, from glass.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Patrick Moore]

I once stopped counting at 36 on a tube that must have been 10 years old ...

Patrick "this is a very minor distinction, but it's all mine" Moore, who a year or 2 ago donated or sold his huge stash of Remas because he now uses modern sealants!

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 10/04/2017 01:33 PM, Deacon Patrick wrote:
> There's a line? Grin. When the hole is bigger than the patch I toss
> the tube. Tubes last me a long time. So far they die one of two ways:
> poor install and I blow the tube when I first pump it up; the tire
> dies also, from glass.
>

In my experience, mostly the die from issues at the base of the Presta
valve.

[Steve Palincsar]

When there's no more room.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Jon Spangler]

lum gim fong,

Yes, patching (when successfully accomplished) is permanent--as permanent as any inner tube can be.

In addition to the other suggestions here that reinforce following the directions carefully, I suggest:

1) inflating the unmatched tube as much as possible before applying the patch to help reduce the amount of stretching that occurs after

re-inflating: the patch will keep the tube from stretching evenly underneath the patch itself.

2) Rolling over the patch once it is applied to the tube-

 

a) place the tube on a wide, flat, and hard surface, then

 

b) use a frame or floor pump barrel like a rolling pin and roll across the patch in different directions. 

 Rolling the patch like a pie crust helps cement the patch completely, IMHO. Not sure where I learned this step but it seems to help.

If any patch has failed to work you will know very quickly that the attempt was unsuccessful. Just try it again.

Jon Spangler

Alameda, CA

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 2:43:42 PM UTC-7, Reed Kennedy wrote:

I must have installed at least a hundred patches over the years. (I used to run narrow high pressure tires, and used to get more flats.)

I've had a handful of patches fail. These generally fall in to one of two categories:

• Put the puncture too close to the edge of the patch (to cover a big cut, or to try and cover both holes in a snakebite puncture with one small patch).
• Puncture right near the seam of the tube. (Sometimes it forms a little channel for air to get out.)

Even considering those, I have a patch failure rate of much below 5%. I consider it a permanent, reliable fix.

And what's the alternative? Throwing away a tube after every tiny puncture? What a waste!

Best,

Reed

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 2:36 PM, lum gim fong <john1...@gmail.com> wrote:

What is your track record with patching?

Has it worked like a permanent, reliable fix for the tube?

I hear differing opinions about this.

I can save some $$ if patching is a permanent fix.

Not interested in tubeless at all. Just wondering about question in subject title. Thanks.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 10/04/2017 10:23 AM, lum gim fong wrote:
> Sounds permanent. Do you all use patched tubes on your front wheel? Feel safe enough for that?

Absolutely.

>
> For anyone who's interested, Rivendell has a video in the articles section of their website teaching how to patch a tube.
>

[Eric Norris]

Spare tubes of cement are easy to find online. They’re sealed very well and will last forever until you puncture the end for the first use.

--Eric N

Twitter/Instagram/YouTube: @CampyOnlyGuy

[lconley]

I patch the tubes until the valve stem leaks at the tube junction, this seems to go before the tube rots.

Patching the tube also lets you know where on the tire the puncture occurred. I always align the tire label with the valve stem. If it is not obvious where on the tire the puncture occurred (typical with steel belt wire penetrations) the location of the leak in the tube will tell you two locations to look at on the tire.

At least I don't have to un-sew and re-sew the casings any more. I had a set of Vittoria silk sew-ups in the early seventies that were worth a half month's rent (they were on my Gitane TdF when I bought it used), so I patched them till the silk rotted and they exploded. Sounded like a gunshot when they let loose.

Laing

[Eric K]

I don’t understand the warning so often repeated to avoid glueless patches.

I had a rear tube with eight patches, half of which were glueless. The most recent glueless patch had almost 2000 miles, and the oldest glueless had over 4000 miles. The patches all held up just fine until puncture #9 was too close to the edge of an existing repair. Yes, it was hard to dispose of that tube.

Maybe glueless patches are indeed “getchahome” repairs for racer types with 120psi. But my experience at 80-85psi has given me confidence that they can also be a long-term repair.

[Eamon Nordquist]

I have never been afraid to patch a front tube. Of course I almost always have flats occur on rear tires. I don't know about others, but I am 52 and am pretty sure I've only flatted a front tire a handful of times ever. Maybe I'm just lucky. I'm sure if I had ever ridden often in goathead country I might have different experience.

Eamon
Seattle WA

[Steve Palincsar]

On 10/05/2017 08:21 PM, Eric K wrote:
> I don’t understand the warning so often repeated to avoid glueless patches.

Then let me explain.  In my experience, glueless patches inevitably will
fail.  It's hard to tell how long they'll last, but they're not
permanent and that patched tube will at some point leak and go flat.  If
you try to remove it and properly patch the leak with a regular patch,
you'll find the glueless patch has left a sticky residue on the tube
that defies removal and makes it impossible to glue a regular patch to
the tube, so you will have to throw the tube away.

Admittedly, it's been a while now since I've used glueless patches, but
in my calculation, the limited amount of convenience they offer doesn't
begin to compensate for the risk of having to discard a perfectly fine
tire tens of thousands of miles before its time.

>
> I had a rear tube with eight patches, half of which were glueless. The most recent glueless patch had almost 2000 miles, and the oldest glueless had over 4000 miles. The patches all held up just fine until puncture #9 was too close to the edge of an existing repair. Yes, it was hard to dispose of that tube.
>
> Maybe glueless patches are indeed “getchahome” repairs for racer types with 120psi. But my experience at 80-85psi has given me confidence that they can also be a long-term repair.
>

Perhaps you're right.  I only ever tried them on 23mm tubes.

[Clayton]

Back in the day, when I rode my mountain bike in the southern California desert, goat heads were a constant problem. I finally retired a tube with 23 patches on it.  I found that Rema's with fresh glue (I buy a new tube of glue every year, which reminds me...), works the best. Proper tube prep and letting the glue get tacky is key, followed by a through and strong rub down. I haven't had a patch fail in a long time. I carry a spare tube and a patch kit but always patch my tube on the side of the road rather than putting in the tube. I carry the tube just in case a valve rips at the tube.  Now I will jinx myself by being grateful for living free from flats, here in Bend. My tubes usually die from age now, rather than too many patches. 

Clayton Bailey 

[Reed Kennedy]

Good advice, to carry fresh patch glue! Nothing quite like trying to patch and finding the tube has gone solid. 

On that topic: Has anyone found a way to buy the little Rema tubes that actually fit inside the patch kit? All the ones I’ve found that are sold individually are larger (longer) than the little blue plastic box. 

Not the end of the world, but as I rarely (if ever) use up a tube I’d much rather the smaller ones that fit. 

Reed

On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 6:52 PM 'Clayton' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Back in the day, when I rode my mountain bike in the southern California desert, goat heads were a constant problem. I finally retired a tube with 23 patches on it.  I found that Rema's with fresh glue (I buy a new tube of glue every year, which reminds me...), works the best. Proper tube prep and letting the glue get tacky is key, followed by a through and strong rub down. I haven't had a patch fail in a long time. I carry a spare tube and a patch kit but always patch my tube on the side of the road rather than putting in the tube. I carry the tube just in case a valve rips at the tube.  Now I will jinx myself by being grateful for living free from flats, here in Bend. My tubes usually die from age now, rather than too many patches. 

Clayton Bailey 

--

[Bill M.]

I use the plastic patch kit box as the 'anvil', and the rounded end of a tire lever to apply the pressure to make sure the patch seals well to the tube.  

Also, I leave the clear plastic on the patch if I'm reinstalling immediately.  That makes sure I don't pull the patch free.  If using the patched tube as a spare, I'll remove the plastic after the patch has had a suitably long time to cure.  Bending the patched area a bit will often open up a split in the plastic, so it can be peeled off center-to-edge.  

Bill

Stockton, CA  

[Patrick Moore]

Back when I was a wee lad, sitting at the feet of New Delhi bicycle wallahs, the finishing action after cutting the patch (from old innertube, always pink for some reason), scuffing patch and tube, applying fluid from 4 oz tin, blowing and letting dry, and carefully affixing the patch, was to lay the patch, now on the tube, over something hard, say the chainstay, and use the handle (wood, home made, or at least, cottage industry) of your big flathead screwdriver (ditto) to pound around the surface of the patch to ensure adherence. 

As when the nuns (full wimples) admonished us in primary school not to slide louchely on our bums from the seated to the kneeling position (on the oaken pews, polished by generations of bums), but to stand with dignity before kneeling, a commandment I found myself, to my surprise, obeying in my early 30s, so with the beating of the patches -- I did it religiously until I decided that rolling it (say, with a discarded straight seat pin or section of thick dowel), or using the edge of my thumbnail to iron it in place, worked just as well.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Ben Miller]

For whatever it's worth, I've put 1000's of km's on Lezyne glueless patches. They've last longer than the tyres in which they're encased.