FS-Joe Appaloosa

[Gossamer]

As close to new 58 Appaloosa in blue.

Buil kit from Riv that included Nitto Choco Moose bars and added a read Pletscher Rack with pannier rails, front Mark's rack and Sackville small trunk (gray), kickstand. Currently has a Soma drop bar on it with Dura Ace shifters. Already newbaumed chain stay, both sets of bars and put on a great bell.

Bike has fewer than 100 miles on it. It's closer to new than a demo could be...it's sadly too big despite following the fit guide.

I'd be happy to discuss further if someone would like. I'd like to get $2100 for it since I have more than $2600 into it. It will be professionally shipped and you'll get both bars and all mentioned above. Only thing I would keep are the saddle and the pedals.

[iamkeith]

Hope this isn't an inappropriate question, but is that saddle set at your proper height? If so, it looks to be an almost perfect fit, to me.

[Scott Blouke]

I wonder that on every Riv or iBob'ish bike I see.  It makes it so much easier to do a mental comparison of that bike size to mine.  I hope its not like asking a lady her age so thanks for being first.

Scott

[Gossamer]

Not inappropriate at all. More than happy to answer. While I agree with the sizing methodology that RBW shares, I made the mistake in this instance. Will tried to tell me, and I didn't listen, that this would not be my best choice for a drop-bar bicycle when compared to the Atlantis. I ordered it with the choco-moose bars thinking I could enjoy them and simply cannot. I tried to put the shortest stem I can, along with a comfortable drop bar but it's too much of a reach. As I've gotten older, I've become less tolerant to little inconveniences on my bicycles. Rather than fight this, I'll sell it, take my lumps and do what I should have done from the onset.

Hopefully someone will see the value in what I'm offering and buy it quickly. Feel free to ask other questions, should you have any.

[Bob Lovejoy]

I just want to throw this in... I was working with a bike that I knew had too long of a top tube for drop bars but still loved (a Velo Orange Polyvalent).  I set it up anyway for drops, using a Nitto dirt drop stem, and that was ok, but just barely.  The experiments continued though, changing out the drop bars and stem with a normal Nitto stem (10cm?) and the Map / Ahearn all round handlebars ( http://www.benscycle.com/p-1244-map-ahearne-all-rounder-handlebar-254-silver.aspx ).  These, for me anyway, are a true middle-ground with regards to reach, effectiveness, and fun riding.

I hope the sale and all goes as you want it to as it is a beautiful bike!  That said, if not, it might be worth an experiment with the MAP/Ahearn bars.

I have hopefully attached a couple of somewhat recent pictures of my Polyvalent with the Ahearne bars.  Just throwing it out as a possibility.

Good luck with the sale if it comes to that!

Bob Lovejoy

Galesburg, IL

[Gossamer]

You offer an interesting solution and I'll seriously consider it. My issue is that I think the bars need to come back, as the bike was designed, to an area appreciably behind the head tube. What I want to avoid is the constant churn of handlebars, tape, shifters, levers...on and on. I do enjoy the bike but am kicking myself for not doing what I was told. Will said, "If you want an Atlantis, get the Atlantis. You'll wish you had." To be honest, I thought I could accomplish the "Atlantis" feel for less than what it would cost. I should know better by now.

I will say this, the disadvantage I found with the choco moose bars, aside from comfort (subjective) was that bar-end shifters make it difficult to turn at times because of how they hit your knees when you turn or maneuver. 

[Joe Bernard]

Gossamer: You might be able to solve that shifters-hit-knees problem with a different pullback bar and long stem. I don't use bar-ends on my 51cm Appaloosa, but I found that the Choco-Moose bars were just a smidge closer than I liked. I switched to an Albatross on a 12cm Nitto Pearl stem and got the room I needed: The stem is longer than the theoretical stem length on Choco-Moose, and Albas have more forward reach at the curves.

I don't know if this will completely solve your shifter issue, but I think - considering the bike is too big with drops - it will lessen it considerably.

[Bob Lovejoy]

Understood, and I suspect many of us could say "been there...".  The Appaloosa's just take the long top tube, and chain stays for that matter, to new territory, which is certainly not bad but, yeah, wow!

If you still have the stock levers and shifters from the Choco Moose setup, it seems they would would work on the Ahearn bars, though I have not checked.  The other good news is that at least the M/A bars do not need bar tape, just grips, so they are a little easier to deal with.  That said, I do know changing bars (repeatedly) on a bike is a real pain, no matter what.

Again, good luck with the sale - or the experiment!  I will say I know people with Atlantis' will confirm that they are a pretty magical combination of things, not easily matched.

Best to you,

Bob

[iamkeith]

Thanks for taking the time to answer, Gossamer.  Like Scott said, it's always useful to compare setups and hear what works for others - ESPECIALLY when the bike is your size (that's a 58, right?), or the questions are ones you've wrestled with.  I wish I had the money to buy this.  I'm kind of kicking myself for buying a 59 Clem on pre-sale, that I knew was too big... just before these Joes were announced.  Couldn't swing both, but this one would have been the better choice for what I was after.  Your experience and explanation is very helpful and confirms that it would have been the right choice.   C'est la vie.  Hope the sale goes well for you.

[Les Lammers]

The MAP bars may be a great solution. I have them on my Cheviot with Ergon CG-1 grips and like them a lot.

[Stuart Lovinggood]

Gah. If this were a month or two from now I'd be taking you up on this offer but I need to clear out the stable first. I rode a 55 at Riv a couple weeks ago and it was a little cramped for me. Quite like the v1 colors over the new batch, although they didn't have an exact sample of the new green color in the shop at the time. If you don't mind me asking, what are your PBH and height? I was measured at an 87 which I found hard to believe and they didn't have the 58 in stock to try out. 

[Gossamer]

My PBH measures 89, I'm 6' tall, and like I may have mentioned in another post, the stand over is great. I simply am out of whack on the reach part. Despite me having "Normal" measurements, I don't like extended reach but do like drop bars. So in this case, the geo of the bicycle makes that uncomfortable for me. As for timing, it's not like anyone is beating down my door, so if you get to a point where you want to discuss, find me and ask if I still have it. Until I put on this thread that it's gone, it's still available. Thanks!

[Dave Johnston]

Riv has recently posted a new frame sizing chart. I think its useful since every model is a bit different.

[Garth]

Gossamer, a couple of things.
-Are your bars as pictured high enough for you ?
-With a choco/alba/bosco kinda bar if you are using bar end shifters and you get knee knocking try thumbshifters placed on top further foward.
-And/or raising the bars with a stem that has a high degree positive rise, not a downward one like you have. With a positive rise stem, say +25/35 degrees your forward extention is much less compared to a comparable length -17 degree one. Much much much less, because the extention length is going more up instead of out so the difference can be huge. See this handy tool and compare.... http://yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/stem.php
Say with a 72d hta,a -17d 8cm.stem compared to a +35d 8cm.stem at the same quill height the riser one would be 32mm shorter and 62mm higher. That is just one example of course.
-I don't know your preference for drop bar but these days there is a huge variety of them from traditional to flared out and shallow drop.

You may not have to part with the bike just yet, using some geometry and stuff and you see how you may be able to find a fit you want. The actual reach from the charts to me is not hugely different from JA to Atlantis. The reach is from the center bb line to the middle top heat tube. Some the additional tt length of the JA is because of the 71.5d sta vs. 72d on the Atlantis. Since your saddle is not all the way back the actual reach is less than just tt measurement may imply.

[Gossamer]

Hey Garth...you're going to have to trust me when I say that I've tried just about everything. Aside from a new stem that rises, I've done what I can. I've put those current bars up quite a ways...tot he point where it simply looks and feels like I own the wrong bicycle. The fact of the matter is, I may not be a "fist full of seat post" guy based on my comfort and measurements. I've owned many bikes and the primary concern has always been reach/comfort. At one point, I argued with myself on the size of this bike because I knew it may become and issue.

The fact is, the Riv philosophy is one that works for many but maybe not all. I'd prefer to have a little more seat post showing, a little more standover and be a little closer to my bars. At the end of the day, when you spend this kind of money, I would argue it's more about my comfort rather than their philosophy. I really don't want to try and make something work this hard. Might sound petty but it's honest. :)

Anyway, I really appreciate everyone's thoughts and ideas. 

[panog]

@gossamer

I understand your frustration and dont mean on keep hitting a dead horse but for whatever its worth, in case you are not familiar with it, the 20th edition Riv Bicycle catalogue includes an overlay of the different bars common to these bikes. It helped me deciphering the bar choices I had. The catalogue and the overlay pics are readily available through Google search. I cant post pics from my iPad but I could from my desktop if you dont find them. Let me know.

Best of luck, whichever way this turns out to go.

Pano

[Garth]

Gossamer, if I was you I would feel the same way because I am the same way ! The personal sense of fit and comfort simply cannot be formulated or philosophied. I don't take anyones recommendations when it comes to such matters. When I had a frame built from a local builder the fit kit formula thing said I needed a tt so long and so high and chainstays so long and so wide. I told them exactly what I wanted, much longer cs and tt, or no frame was being made, and it was made. So yeah, settling for what you know you don't want no matter the price never works. Until I had my custom made and got a Bomba I never really had bikes that fit me well at all.

That's why as much as I can get drawn to various new Riv models none of them have been exactly what I want so there's no use getting one no matter what. So yeah, you'll get your Atlantis and whatever happened before will not matter, like water under the bridge and it all ends up in the sea.

[Gossamer]

Still for sale. I'll split the cost of shipping anywhere in the continental US.

On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 9:16:53 PM UTC-6, Gossamer wrote:

[Gossamer]

All: Make me a reasonable offer. The longer I have this the longer I have to wait to get what I really want.

On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 9:16:53 PM UTC-6, Gossamer wrote:

[Gossamer]

No longer for sale...thx!

[RichS]

Hi Gossamer. Congratulations on the sale of your Appaloosa! 

Since your post has generated discussion about fit in general and your mention of the Atlantis as a possible replacement for your Joe App, I'd like to relate my Atlantis experience and another aspect of the sizing conundrum. I have a 53cm model with Noodles. Wonderful bike, solid, stable, just as advertised and as other owners in the group have confirmed. Reach to the bars is fine but I've always been a bit uneasy about the standover. It's in the Riv recommended zone but still. . . This is significant since my Sam (purchased after the Atlantis) hits all the right notes and therefore colors my impression of the Atlantis' size.

I had been looking at some early literature on the Atlantis and discovered this note (paraphrased):  "For male riders, if you plan to ride fat tires (presumably the max. size) consider going down one size." To date I haven't used a tire in the 50mm range but I'd like to go there knowing this will decrease my standover height and possibly discourage use of a larger tire.

Just food for thought as you consider your next purchase. Best of luck!

Regards,

Richard   

[Gossamer]

Updated Price: $1800 for complete bike sans saddle and pedals. Not sure I can go any lower than that. Looking for a buyer.

On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 9:16:53 PM UTC-6, Gossamer wrote:

[Davey Two Shoes]

Thats a killer deal

[Gossamer]

Kinda what I am thinking...but nobody seems interested. :(

On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 9:34:06 AM UTC-5, Davey Two Shoes wrote:

Thats a killer deal

[J Imler]

I have the same bike - color and size. It's sweet. I know the blue isn't generally as popular as the other colors but I think it'll be great with beausage.

Good luck on the sale!

[J Imler]

I've attached a recent photo of my blue Appa.

[Reid Echols]

Shout out for the Mountainsmith pack in the previous pic; that's my go-to basket bag. Had it for years :)

Also, if this were my size I've had bought it ages ago. Just sayin.

[Gossamer]

Beautiful bike...it does seem the blue isn't as popular, which is odd to me. I personally love the blue...allows you to build with all colors of components.

Alas, to each their own. :)

[Chris Birkenmaier]

I never cared for the blue when I saw the photos online.  However, when I saw one in person it was a very different opinion.  Really like it!  Kind of a soft and pleasing shade of blue.

[Rusty Click]

That is a great looking bike and very tempting.  Being 6'1" and 91.5 pbh, it may just be a great fit.  I've gotta think about it a bit more...hmmm.

I'll PM you if I fall off the fence.

[Gossamer]

Nobody wants a 58 Joe? On to eBay...

[mike smith]

Still for sale?

[Gossamer]

Yep...still sitting in my garage. :)

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 8:01:12 PM UTC-5, mike smith wrote:

Still for sale?

[Andrew Huston]

Someone on Facebook is inquiring about this bike. Pm me and I can try to connect you.

[Gossamer]

ALL:

Bicycle is still up for sale. Been a year and I haven't tried to sell it in a while. Ruptured my Achilles and will not be riding any time soon. PM me if you have interest. As close to new as you will find.

[Wayne Naha]

I wish that it was my size, you'd have it sold by now.

[mike smith]

Can you post a few more pics? What handlebar options come with it? Im 6 2 with a 91 PBH. It should fit.

[Gossamer]

Whta 

The Soma Portola bars are currently on it and the Chocomoose bars will come with it as well. I have no doubt it will fit..I am just a shad over 89. I'd get a slightly smaller bike if I were to do it again.

[Gossamer]

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 6:20:15 PM UTC-6, mike smith wrote:

[Mark in Beacon]

That is one very handsome bicycle. I see why the Appaloosa is Grant's favorite--ready for anything and looking fabulous doing it. Thumbs up too, for the Riv Pletscher rack, a work of industrial beauty and function. And that happy skies blue...

[tc]

I wish someone would hurry up and buy this awesome bike that happens to fit me but I can’t afford — Please!

[Gossamer]

I wish someone would hurry up and buy this awesome bike that happens to be sitting in my garage doing nothing. B17 special now included. PM me for pricing and shipping.

[Gossamer]

bump

[Gossamer]

Ok All, some of you have been very kind and patient seeing my posts...I appreciate that. I'm giving it one more try and then I'm putting this beautiful bike on eBay or Craigslist or both. 

I don't think $1800 is too much for this bike. And if you want to have it shipped to you, BikeFlights is around $75 to most places...I would cover the boxing of it by my LBS.

There is NOTHING wrong with this bike, it comes with all that is mentioned previously and has fewer than 30 miles on it.

Please pm me if you have any questions.