New Sam-haver with rack questions!

[Jon Craig]

So, last Saturday I finally bought a Sam (55, blue, noodle)!  (BTW A1 Cyclery in Indianapolis rocks!)  (And truth be told, I'm now a 2-Sam household as on Wednesday we went back and my wife got one too - 51, orange, noodle. :D )

Anyway - I had an old Trek rear rack so I black-nailpolished the Trek logos and put it on - it fits great!  

A front rack I do not have, and I'm wondering what ones fit well on Sam without a lot of bodging.  NIttos, yeah, they're gorgeous, but they're also bordering on blasphemously expensive so I'm looking for lower cost options.

Since someone will demand it, I've attached a pic of my Sam sitting in my office as I type this.

[Howard Hatten]

Jon
Congratulations on your new bikes. SAMs are really nice bikes. For your rack needs just post a WTB to the list. This group is very friendly & they know just what will work for your bike. I'm sure you'll find something in no time.
Safe riding

Howard
Livonia Mi

[Jon Craig]

"WTB" usually means "Want To Buy."  I don't necessarily want to buy one, I just want the info on what has worked for people, for future reference.  Budget is totally depleted for now (2x Sams is a lot of money!)

[Minh]

Jon,

could you be a little more specific on what you're looking for?  a small rack, a full-size rack? what do you want to carry? a trunk sack? panniers?

all of my experience is with the nitto options, so can't comment on alternatives--i'm also a bit of a color matcher, so putting a silver nitto rack with a black blackburn wouldn't work for me!

[Jon Craig]

Any front rack that fits easily without a lot of bodging would be fine.

I usually would want silver, but since my rear rack is a spare Trek that I had around (which is black), a black front rack would balance it out.

As far as size, anything!  I'm really just trying to gather a list of what fits, for later purchase.

A lot of stuff for instance requires using the fork crown hole. Can't, as it's used on the Sam (by the brake).

[Ryan Thompson]

I have a Cheviot, which has the same brake setup as your Sam, and use Mark's Nitto Rack with a Wald basket.  Can't go wrong as the rack was specifically developed for Rivendell's with caliper brakes.

http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/r1.htm

Ryan

[John Stowe]

Having a caliper brake doesn't preclude mounting a rack at the fork crown. In fact, it's handy because it means you already have a bolt! I have my Pass & Stow rack and a fender mounted on my Sam using the front brake bolt: https://flic.kr/p/dURLir

-John

[Jon Craig]

Nittos are just way, way, way too expensive.

[Kainalu]

If you want to carry something weighing much more than the rack itself, I'd suggest a fairly cheap black Tubus lowrider with some panniers.
-Kai
Brooklyn NY

[Minh]

Jon,

If you want us to help you, you need to help us.  People here are going to recommend the Nitto options because many of us have tried the other options and ended up with Nitto.  RBW design their bikes with those racks in mind, so generally speaking they are the closest to plug and play--not to say others won't work but those are the racks they sell/use so it makes sense they work the best.  

If they are outside your price range, than you need to define a price range for us.  you also need to think about whether you need to carry panniers as a full size rack is different from a mini front rack (both in price and mounting options).  

i'm not going to try and convince you to the value of nitto (you should define value for yourself), but if you want useful input you need to define a few more parameters.  

as John Stowe points out, there are front racks that account for caliper brakes and mounting through the center hole

[David Banzer]

Soma makes an aluminum front rack that would fit the bill - it's a good platform for a Wald basket.
David
Chicago

[Brian Campbell]

+1 This is your best low cost option.

[Philip Kim]

Jon, congrats! 

The reason Nitto is well regarded is because the quality is really high, which matters the more times you ride your bike with more things. I believe all Nitto racks are still brazed by the same woman in Japan for the past decade or maybe even two. I know you bought two Riv's which is a lot of money so I can understand your apprehension at a more expensive rack.

Any good rack that won't fail in a couple of years will be $70-200 depending on how much you want to carry. So to have a specific size, price range, and intended use is helpful for us to give suggestions so we're not all aiming in the dark and can better help you.

A reason Howard suggest posting a WTB is because a lot of us are bike tinkerers and have parts/accessories that are sitting around that we would gladly see being used. So you can usually get racks and parts cheaper this way, and most of the stuff is in good to great condition. So whenever or if ever the time comes for you to buy a front rack, then it will be helpful to post to this list. If you don't have a set idea, then being specific in your intended use, etc. always helps. A lot of knowledgeable people on here, and will go the extra mile to make measurements, take pictures, etc.

All things considered - Soma has a couple of front racks that are cheaper that might work, mainly their Alloy front rack is around $35, but their shipping can be outrageous. Another option would be to get a Wald front basket set up ($25ish). This will connect to your handlebars and have legs that connect to your fork dropouts. I highly recommend against the wald basket, unless you attach it to a front rack. I had the Basket set up, and the screws vibrated loose within a week. A Tara Tubus Duo Lowrider rack is a little over $50, which might be your best option though you might need to use P-Clamps. Another option would be to try to find a cheap rear rack that you can jerry rig to use as a front rack. Not a lot of options if you're trying to stay below $100.

Surly front racks (Surly Nice Rack, 24 pack rack, etc.)  as well as Minoura Gamoh front racks. Velo Orange also has a Constructeur front rack that I've also used with great success (these are all in the $100 and over range).

[Jon Craig]

The reason I don't have any specifics is that I am literally trying to compile a list of all the front racks that fit without bodging, and that are cheaper than Nitto.

$5,200 is a lot of money; our budget is blown for a while, so this won't be a soon-purchase.  I just want to know what works.  All of them.

[Will]

I've done front racks, Wald baskets, and such... the solution I evolved to was a Tubus rear with Ortlieb bags. Why?

1) Rivs handle better with rear loads. It a design thing.
2) small front racks with large basket overhangs are fussy.
3) front racks have very modest capacity (unless they are the low-rider pannier variety)
3) front racks with baskets often present challenges at public bike racks. They don't play well with crowded situations.

My rear Ortlieb roll-top carries everything. It attaches/detaches in about 5 seconds. It's stable. The large capacity and the fact that it's on/off quickly makes it super-convenient. 

My recco would be to skip the front rack expense and complexity, focus on what makes the rear work. Solve the rear opportunity first.

[Jon Craig]

Has anyone installed a V-O constructeur front rack onto a Sam?

[Scott McLain]

I have landed in the same space as Will.  I am running a black tubus rear rack on my AHH.  My favorite front rack option is the nitto front rack.  There is not as much of a premium going to the nitto in the front and you can pick them up used on the RBW forum.  I like the small nitto rack coupled with the Sackville small Trunksack.  

The other consideration that is a little less rivy is the front randoneering bag set up that works best with a front rack.  I went back to the trunksack when I added up the cost of going with the front randoneering bag.

http://builtbyswift.com/shop/custom-ozette-randonneur-bag/


Scott

[Jon Craig]

Welp, I'll find out later this week if it works. :D

I have a large credit at one of my LBS's so I ordered up a VO constructeur front rack to try out.  Hopefully it'll fit easily enough.

[drew]

The vo constructeur will work fine, but I'm not sure it fits your plug n play requirements. You may need to cut the bottom mounts, bend the tang (if you want it thru the brake bolt), or use a daruma (if you don't).

That being said it's a cool rack that fulfills a unique gap in front racks. Lightish, steel, much sturdier than a mini but not delving into heavy duty touring/pannier capability.

[Jon Craig]

According to V-O's site they come pre-drilled now.  Yeah, I don't want to try to drill steel. :D   It comes with the daruma as well, so if I need it, it's there.

BTW - Sam's brake bolt comes in through the back of the crown rather than bolting through the front - it's an odd bolt.  I wonder if the daruma will work on it.  Guess I'll find out!

[Philip Kim]

Jon, although it has the reinforced struts to the bottom of the fork leg, i would still watch the amount of stuff you put on it, since it's only connected to the fork crown with a tange, so it's not laterally reinforced. The rack was designed with small rando bags in mind.

[Ron Mc]

Very nice bikes - congrats.  Take your time, gather your information, and think a bit before you spend.  I took 6 months and evaluated all the choices before I put a front rack on my CX bike.  Cheap often means cheaply made.  I agree with the Tubus votes, and believe racktime is also made by Tubus.  Here is a good place to begin  

https://www.bikebagshop.com/  

if you wait, though, improve your budget, you could call Bruce Gordon and have one of these made

   

http://www.bgcycles.com/new-page-14/  

[islaysteve]

John, Having mounted a VO Constructeur rear rack on a Bleriot, I will say that you may end up wanting to cut the ends of either the struts or the top tange, depending on fit and aesthetics.  And I can attest that the steel is hard.  But it's doable with a hacksaw and file; a Dremel tool comes in very handy for these jobs as well.  Good luck, Steve

[Ron Mc]

another good Tubus vendor - http://thetouringstore.com/  

a really good idea is google photos and see where they lead you...

[Jon Craig]

Yeah, I'm not going to put much on it. 5# max I'd say?  If that.

[drew]

You could also use the surly hardware with the vo constructeur to go laterally to the midfork eyelets and cut off the tang altogether.

[Jon Craig]

O_o

Sounds advanced.

I'll see how it looks/works/feels "stock" first. 

[Minh]

i've not installed on my sam, but have installed on a side-pull-braked bike, for me (and it was a similiar sized bike to my sam) i had to cut some of the bottom tangs off as i wanted to use one of the holes farther up and the tangs interfered at the drop-outs.  

you also have to bend that fork tang quite a bit to clear the front brakes.  the daruma option will eat up space under the fork crown, so not a perfect solution.

i'd still investigate drew's suggestion as that's a much cleaner install than the tang behind the brake.

would not have been my first choice given your stated requirements, but good luck!

[David Person]

A Linus Lunch Rack should work well.

http://www.linusbike.com/products/linus-lunch-rack-1

[Jon Craig]

Eh, it was either this or wait a looooong time, as like I said, I have a sizable credit at one of my LBS's - so I can get whatever I want for "free" but it has to be something QBP has, which basically means the only thing that really suits is the VO constructeur.

I guess I'll see how it all fits when the rack arrives.  If there's any violence/etc required I'll give up and wait I suppose.  I don't have the skills or the tools to modify steel!

[islaysteve]

Jon, I have a VO Constructeur rear rack on my Bleriot. Depending on fit, you may or may not have to cut the bottom struts, as someone else here has mentioned. Since your Sam is 700c, the bottom hole may work, then no cutting. The steel is hard, but you should only need a hacksaw with a good blade to cut straight across. A file can be used to clean up the corners of the cut. Of course, something to hold the piece tight, like a vice, would help. Do you know anyone with a workbench or basic shop? Once installed, these racks seem very solid; I've been pleased with mine. Good luck, Steve

[Jon Craig]

Well that was a disaster. :D

Yeah, the VO constructeur front rack won't work on a Sam, at least not for someone with my level of skills (admittedly next to nil!)

The shape of the tang just doesn't work.  It's got that down-bend in it, that when placed through the brake caliper, causes the whole thing to push down and rub on the tire.  Not to mention you can't really insert it through far enough because of the aforementioned down-bend.

Luckily I decided to dry-fit it before removing the hang tag and little bundle of hardware, so returning it was easy enough.

I'll just use the rear rack for now, and perhaps wait until a Mark's rack doesn't seem expensive.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 06/23/2016 06:57 AM, Jon Craig wrote:
>
> I'll just use the rear rack for now, and perhaps wait until a Mark's
> rack doesn't seem expensive.

Perhaps if you check on prices for a custom rack...

[Jon Craig]

HAHA, that should do the trick.

Though apparently I'm in a different income bracket than the rest of the people here, as after spending $5,200, the $140 for a rack seems expensive... as I just spent $5,200! :D

[drew]

If it's not necessary immediately, keep an eye on the list. Good stuff with generous prices pops up all the time.
And if you can drop 5k on bikes at one time, you're better off than most people I know.

[Jon Craig]

Eh, it wasn't the best decision we've ever made.  But, Sams are available in the quantities they're available in, and basically only once a year.

Bicycling together is an important fun/bonding activity for my wife and myself, and our prior bikes were not proving to be the fun, carefree experience we'd wanted.  So we did this.  It is painful, especially since the prior bikes sit unsold, and they're painfully valuable too.

But, you only live once, and not for that long - and this was important to us, so it's done. )

[Scott Henry]

I just ordered one of the VO constructeur racks, I haven't installed it yet, just a dry fit.    Mine is taking the place of a Mark's rack.

Anyway, that tang on the VO rack is designed to fit a mount under the steering tube or to a Daruma (which was included in mine)    I can't recall if the Sam has a under-steerer fender mount, I don't think so though.   So you will need this daruma, like I said, mine was included with my rack....
http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/vo-fork-crown-eye-bolt-for-fenders-and-racks-fork-crown-daruma.html
 

Here are the rack mount instructions : http://support.velo-orange.com/pdf/FrontRack.pdf

Give it a go, that VO rack should mount up to a Sam fairly easily.   

Scott

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[Minh]

i had to go downstairs and double-check my VO rack install, i bent mine to curve up and over the caliper and mounted it to the frontside of the fork (between the brake), but my bike was an old one so getting it under the fork crown would not have been possible.  

this is the hazard of racks, none of them are universal plug and play, i would hazard to guess that the VO racks fit easier on the VO frames in the same way that the Nitto racks fit easier on Rivendells.  

And as far as cost, i've seen Mark's racks trade hands here for $80-$100 so around the price of a VO rack.

[Jon Craig]

That's good - but again - I have a huge credit at a LBS so anything from QBP (inc. VO stuff) is "free" to me.

That's the problem.  But the V-O rack just would not work.  Ah well.

[David Banzer]

I'm fairly certain QBP carries Nitto products if you have credit at your LBS.
I'll mention again that Soma's aluminum front rack at around $30 or so would definitely do the trick.
Check with your LBS about what other distributors they have. I know mine has accounts with several, some take longer than others but they can get pretty much anything I need.
David
Chicago

[Jon Craig]

Only a very few Nitto products are carried by QBP.  One of the front racks is for canti bikes only, and the other, not sure if it would fit.

Only Rivendell is allowed to sell the Mark's, since the Mark it's named for... is a Rivendell employee. :D

[Tim Gavin]

Jon-

Congrats on the Sams!

You can get the Nitto M18 through QBP for $135.  It would fit great on a Sam, just be mindful that the tang to the brake bolt isn't that strong (as discussed in another thread).  A safety strap to the handlebar is recommended.

[Jon Craig]

Well, A1 happened to have a Mark's in stock.  Now they don't. :D